This podcast is offered by the San Francisco Zen Center on the web at www.sfzc.org. Our public programs are made possible by donations from people like you. Dogen says that Chinese ancestors said that because there is a Buddha in birth and death, there is no birth and death. And we've talked about that some already, but I'd just like to offer another way to hear this, another practice, maybe a little more experiential, slightly less theoretical way to approach this saying. Not necessarily easier, but... And this is

[01:01]

regarding the nature of this mind as empty awareness. So we have this consciousness, this mind is dualistic consciousness right now, where mind is relating to an objective world, All the senses are relating to sense objects and mind is relating to constructing mental images, dualistic consciousness. It seems as if there's mind in objects. We call this mind. Mind is basically dualistic operations of our life. But the nature of this very mind is...

[02:03]

not dualistic. The nature of the mind is non-dual, empty awareness. We could also call this Buddha nature. The nature of our mind is actually Buddha nature and a very ordinary and always with us, very nothing kind of like mystical or metaphysical or some strange thing that just happens sometimes. It's just that always, this is the proposal from the Buddha, that all the time, we could say in the background, there's no location here really, but we can approach it by opening to the way that In the background, behind our dualistic consciousness, there is this vast, spacious awareness like a mirror.

[03:15]

A mirror that just receives images and just doesn't distort what's happening, doesn't prefer any particular things over any other things. And what appears on the mirror is just reflections. So there's this way that the nature of our mind is like just this receptive, open, vast, boundless mirror. And you might have heard this kind of thing before, or not. In any case, this is, I think, a really... really good news in Zazen it's possible to at any time actually it's possible to notice this mirror-like awareness but especially in Zazen we're really quiet and still we can tune in to this awareness that's always present and here right now as we're our dualistic consciousness is seeing a

[04:28]

me and a world and the separation out here. Meanwhile, the background, there's this open, receptive, non-dual awareness. It's just one with everything that's happening, with all appearances and receives all appearances. In the metaphor of the mirror, the appearance, the reflection, on the surface of the mirror is not at all separate from the mirror itself. It's right there on the surface, right? And yet it's not the mirror. So again, here we have the two truths and the non-duality of the two truths. The mirror is empty awareness, ultimate truth of emptiness. But now it's not just a kind of philosophical emptiness. Now we're talking about an aware emptiness. which maybe already seems ungraspable, but emptiness that actually is alive and receptive and aware, but in this non-do way.

[05:41]

And that empty, ultimate truth of Buddha nature is completely inseparable from all the appearances of the conventional world that are just resting on the surface of the mirror like that. The conventional world doesn't stick to the ultimate awareness, and yet it's also inseparable from it. The conventional appearances don't distort the ultimate truth or change it in any way. The mirror just remains the mirror, and yet they're not somewhere else. The reflections are not somewhere else other than the mirror. This metaphor is, again, the two truths, but now we're talking about emptiness in terms of an awareness. And I think this is something we can actually, at any moment, for example, right now, or throughout the day, or in Zazen, see if we can just tune into, as one may have talking about, maybe open to.

[06:57]

this spacious, inconceivable, ungraspable receptivity of mirror-like awareness that you mirror Samadhi that's always operating, whether we're totally unconcentrated or not. This kind of awareness, this kind of mirror-like awareness, is naturally in a state of nirvana. It is free from birth and death. This kind of awareness doesn't come and go. It doesn't arise or cease, and it's completely free from greed, hate, and delusion. Right at the same time, the greed, hate, and delusion may be reflected.

[08:02]

on the surface of the mirror. We can be completely caught up in greed, hate and delusion and all kinds of disturbing images right there on the surface of the mirror but they don't touch the mirror in the slightest way. An image doesn't actually touch the mirror because it's just an image. Reflections don't touch anything and that's kind of the way that the conventional truth is like mere appearance. that doesn't really touch the ultimate truth, and yet it's completely inseparable from it. So in this way of looking at the ultimate truth as actually an empty, spacious, non-dual awareness that's inseparable from appearances, we can hear this teaching of Dogen that because there's a Buddha, a Buddha called mirror-like awareness.

[09:04]

Because there's a Buddha in the midst of birth and death, in the midst of samsara, in the midst of appearances, there is no birth and death. Can you grok this a little bit? Because there is always a Buddha, our Buddha, nature, this background awareness that we can't get rid of if we try. We also can't get a hold of it. And if we try because it's ungraspable, empty awareness. If we try to grasp it as some thing, whatever we're grasping is just a reflection in the mirror becomes conventional truth. But because this Buddha awareness is right here, always, imminent in the midst of our life called birth and death, the appearance of of samsara, because it's right here already, there is no birth and death.

[10:08]

Meaning, or another way to say it, because this Buddha awareness is right in the midst of birth and death, we can see that birth and death is just a reflection on the surface of the mirror. It's not really birth and death. It's a mere reflection. Do you follow this? So, because Buddha awareness Buddha nature in other words vast mirror like awareness is right here in the midst of birth and death which is the appearance of the arising ceasing life therefore there is no birth and death meaning birth and death is is merely just a reflection on the surface of the mirror it's not really birth and death as soon as you As soon as you tune into the Buddha nature, this mirror-like awareness in the midst of our life, then suddenly our life is seen as kind of just a reflection on the surface.

[11:13]

Therefore, it's not really our life. Because there's a Buddha in the midst of birth and death, we see that it's not really birth and death. It's merely an appearance. I propose this is another way to hear this first sentence of this essay of Dogen. And it's also an example how the way Nagarjuna talks about emptiness and the two truths is kind of theoretical, I think can be very helpful. But this is a way that's also, you know, there's some theory here, but But understanding this kind of teaching, we can actually open to this very ordinary, everyday, plain old, empty, aware nature of mind.

[12:18]

I mean, it seems maybe extraordinary to tune into that because we're never paying attention to it because it's totally uninteresting. Nothing's happening. It's just like an empty mirror, right? What's much more interesting is the reflections on the surface. If you go into a movie theater before the movie starts, the blank screen is not very interesting. But as soon as the movie starts and with all the images on the screen, that's captivating. So I think this is why Even though it's always here, we just never really pay any attention to it. We don't appreciate it. But in fact, it's like this blank movie screen or this empty mirror is like completely free from suffering. It can't suffer, right? Because the suffering is just a reflection on its surface. Yes. The original face before our parents were born.

[13:20]

The nature of mind. dropped off body and mind. Some of us might even say, Shikantaza, the practice of just sitting, is like settling back into total appreciation of this mirror-like awareness. Some might say, this is what's meant by Dungshan's jewel mirror awareness. So vast, it transcends dimension, so minute. it's in the spacelessness. I have one set of etymology for interesting. It's in between, like inter from in between and as being, like you are between the object and your own mind. So if you have this, it's not interesting, right? In the sense of because you see yourself, but if you see something other, you dualistic appearances maybe are necessary to be really interesting because the mind engages with another that's interesting but mind just being itself where there's no duality I think we need duality for interest ironically it's not interesting and yet it's completely liberating and I think approaching it is kind of interesting when we start to see it

[14:51]

yeah I can see maybe this is so all the time I think first we approach it as kind of we're imagining it a little bit back here in this mirror and we're sort of like that's sort of making it into more reflections but at the same time we have this sense that there's part of there's this aspect of who we are I would say it's who we truly are our original face that is free from birth and death, right in the midst of birth and death. This Buddha is in birth and death. And because there's a Buddha in birth and death, there is no birth and death. And I think you could also apply it to the second sentence, where Dovin says, it's also said, because a Buddha is not in birth and death, a Buddha is not deluded by birth and death. You could say, because this Buddha this mirror-like awareness is not actually caught up in some actual birth and death.

[15:56]

It's the background awareness that receives the image called birth and death. So in a way, Buddha's not in birth and death. And because of that, this Buddha awareness is not diluted or fooled by birth and death. Fooled by means it thinks that it's actually more than just an image So this is something to work with, I think, in Zazen. And you can do any time, especially useful when we're really disturbed, when we're really suffering, to just catch it and say, wait a second, we could call it, Dogen says, learn the backward step. The forward step is... going forward into the appearances in front of us out here. The backward step is stepping back into this awareness.

[17:01]

Dogen says, learn the backward step of turning the light of awareness that's directed outwards back on itself. We could call this awareness of awareness. And then Dogen says, body at this moment of turning the light of awareness back or tracing back the radiance of awareness to the source, body and mind of themselves drop away. I could say the actual solid, substantially existent, essentially real body and mind drop away means they don't just like drop down to the floor, means the solidity drops away and now the body and mind are just reflections on the mirror. and your original face will manifest. Now we move down to another section of this fascicle where Dogen says

[18:12]

Now, so far we've been talking about birth and death is just a translation of Sanskrit terms samsara, right? So birth-death is the cyclic existence of this world and this life. It's never quite right. It's a little bit off because it seems substantial and it's slipping away or it's outside ourselves. Anyway, Samsara, now he's going to play with this term, birth and death, and he's going to break it into its parts of birth and death, which you wouldn't really do with Samsara, but now you can do that with the Chinese term, birth and death. You can say, there's birth and there's death. So Dogen says, it's a mistake to suppose that birth turns into death. Birth is a phase that is an entire period of itself with its own past and future.

[19:13]

For this reason, in Buddhadharma, birth is understood as no birth. Death is a phase that's an entire period of itself with its own past and future. For this reason, death is understood as no death. In birth, there's nothing but birth, and in death, there's nothing but death. Accordingly, when birth comes, face and actualize birth. And when death comes, face and actualize death. Do not avoid them or desire them. So this might sound very familiar to Dogen fans. Very similar to the Genjo Koan. And also to this other essay, The Whole Works. or undivided activity, zen ki. This is a phrase from Shobogenza's zen ki, undivided activity. Dogen says, birth in its right now-ness is undivided activity, or the whole works.

[20:22]

Zen ki is this term that means total dynamic working. It's another term for Dependent co-arising, I propose. The whole works, total dynamic working, is the way that everything universally, inside and outside, is inconceivably arising and ceasing interdependently together. It's like the whole works, or undivided activity. So Dobin says, birth in its right now-ness, like this moment of birth, is the whole works. is the whole of dependent co-arising. Undivided activity is birth in its immediacy. Quietly contemplate whether birth and all things that arise together with birth are inseparable or not. This is like a meditation on dependent co-arising. A moment of birth, which you could say is a moment of literally being born into the world, but actually every moment is a birth of a new moment.

[21:31]

Contemplate whether the birth of this moment and all things that arise together with this moment as we're experiencing it are inseparable or not. How could they be? There is neither a moment nor a thing that is apart from birth. There is neither an object nor a mind that is apart from birth. So there's no other time and... things apart from the experience of this moment. Everything in the universe is included. There's no, and there's no mind apart from this either because, as we spoke of previously, everything is arising dependent on mind and our conceptual imputations. So that's Zanki. Genjo Koan, you maybe have heard this familiar is actualizing the fundamental point.

[22:34]

Dogen's talking about, again, this is about the pentacle rising and how things don't actually change into other things. He's really trying to examine the process of change and impermanence. And it's not really that, for example, firewood doesn't change into ash. It looks like it does, right? But Dogen's teaching is that understand that firewood abides in its dharma position as firewood or its phenomenal expression. It literally is this very important term for Dogen called dharma position, which we'll get into in a second. Firewood abides in its dharma position as firewood, which fully includes future and past and is independent of future and past. Ash abides in its Dharma position as ash, which fully includes future and past, and is independent of future and past.

[23:36]

Just as firewood does not become firewood again after it is ash, you do not return to birth after death. This being so, it is an established way in Buddha Dharma to deny that birth turns into death. Accordingly, birth is understood as no birth. It's an unshakable teaching in Buddha's discourse that death does not turn into birth. Accordingly, death is understood as no death. Birth is an expression complete this moment. Death is an expression complete this moment. They're like winter and spring. We don't call winter the beginning of spring, summer the end of spring. This is like spring doesn't change into summer, birth doesn't change into death. firewood doesn't change into ash it's everything is just being born in one moment flashing into existence and then it ceases and the cessation of that moment becomes a condition for the arising of another moment which is born and ceases and the cessation

[24:54]

is a condition for the arising of another, maybe a very similar moment. So it looks like a continuous flow of change, often a metaphor of like a movie, you know, film with all the little images on it. Moving along very quickly through a camera lens appears as if it's actually an image changing, but there's actually just individual frames on the film. I understand that's how Dogen's talking about each thing abiding in its Dharma position as one frame of film which fully includes future and past which means it depends on all the past frames and all the conditions that led up to it and it even depends on the future that will come after and yet it's also independent of past and future. So we've been talking a lot about how everything is dependent on conditions. It's maybe easier to understand and hear that in Buddha Dharma, everything arises dependent on conditions, but when we hear it's independent of past and future, this is Dogen's unique thing about abiding in a Dharma position is like, you know...

[26:13]

Logically speaking, if we analyze, it is, of course, dependent on past and future, but in this flash of existence, in its here-and-now-ness, we can say it's kind of, experientially, it's independent of everything. Like, we're not thinking about the past and the future in this momentary flashing birth of this moment. That's how I understand abiding in a Dharma position. It's unique. It's never been before. And in a way it's independent because it's just this. If we analyze it, of course it's dependent on other things. But it's never been before and it will never be again. And it's complete in itself. And we could even say that it contains the entire universe and therefore it doesn't depend on it and anything other than itself because Everything is included in itself. So this is an important part of the Gendo Koan Fasigal is everything abiding in its Dharma position or its phenomenal expression.

[27:25]

And I hear, Dogen doesn't use that term in birth and death here, but I hear the same teaching where he says, birth is a phase that's an entire period of itself with its own past and future. And so is death. And for this reason, birth is understood as no birth. When you see that this moment of birth is completely dependent on everything else to appear in this moment, we see that it doesn't really exist as some substantial thing. It's actually no birth. And death is the same. Death is understood as no death. So again, I think the two truths are completely woven into this paragraph. Birth is understood as no birth, and then he says, in birth there's nothing but birth. It sounds like the opposite, and yet it's the two truths. Birth, there's no birth, is the ultimate truth. Birth, there's nothing but birth.

[28:27]

That's dependent on all the previous moments of birth and death. It's a kind of conventional experience of this moment of birth. a rising appearance of this birth. So as these two truths are integrated more and more, then the practice is actually just when birth comes, face and actualize birth. When death comes, face and actualize. Death, do not avoid or grasp them. When we... More and more we see this union of emptiness and appearance and are kind of like in accord with reality. The practice, the practice both to realize that and the practice upon realizing that is basically not to grasp or reject anything. So even if we don't understand all this emptiness stuff and it sounds too abstract,

[29:34]

We can still definitely understand this basic practice of whatever's happening, don't grasp onto it and try to hold it as some substantially real thing, and don't reject it, which is also based on it's a substantially real thing that I'd better get away from. Relax into the arising and ceasing appearances, like in a dream. Yes. Dogen goes on. This birth and death is the life of Buddha. So again, same thing, right? It's a different way of saying the same thing. This samsaric mess we're in is actually Buddha's life. All these messy reflections are actually living on the surface of Buddha awareness. mirror mind this birth and death is the life of Buddha if you try to exclude it you will lose the life of Buddha just like a mirror would never like try to exclude some image it's like the mirror doesn't say like can we have another color now it's like it just it doesn't grasp that particular color and hold on to it it doesn't reject that color

[31:02]

It just receives completely openly this reflection, this appearance. If you try to exclude it, you will lose the life of Buddha. If you cling to it, trying to remain in it, in birth and death, you will also lose the life of Buddha. And what remains will be the mere form of Buddha. Kind of a nice little addition there. It's a little bit like if you try to... grasp this mirror awareness is like this is Buddha nature and like yeah I really have a sense of it here I got it this is yeah so it is so simple Buddha nature right here now we've just made it into the form of that kind of empty form of Buddha we've lost the actual Buddha that's ungraspable and unnameable we've made it into another reflection If grasping or rejecting, you lose the life of Buddha, and what remains will be the mere form of Buddha, like our idea of Buddha.

[32:13]

Only when you don't dislike birth and death or long for them do you enter Buddha's mind. However, do not analyze or speak about it. Please excuse me. This is like, you know, Dogen does a lot of speaking and analyzing, but now I think he's talking now. After you've understood this up to this point, then you can stop analyzing and speaking about it and just drop off everything. Just set aside body and mind, forget about them, and throw them into the house of Buddha. Then all is done by Buddha. Very nice line. So this is the direct practice instructions now. Just set aside your body and mind. There's the body and mind that seem to be real solid and real and problematic.

[33:18]

Just relax them. And let them go. Set them aside. Put your body and mind over here on the chair next to you. Set them aside. Forget about them. Let them go. Drop them off. and throw them into the house of Buddha, then all is done by Buddha. It's a great image. Take your body and mind, wrap them into a little ball, throw them into the house of Buddha. House of Buddha is really big, so you can't miss. Cast body and mind into Buddha. You could say, now if we're using this image of body and mind, actually reflections on the surface of the mirror. That might seem kind of weird. You might be able to see all your mental images and visual images as reflections, but we're saying our whole experience of the body, this body out here, is actually like a reflection on the mirror, this mirror-like awareness.

[34:22]

You can sometimes kind of do this a little bit, as picturing like an actual mirror, like kind of right here, and then you look down at your body, and if you can see it as just like a The body that you think of as you, especially the visual one, is like a reflection in this mirror, but your internal bodily sensations are also reflections in this mirror. This kind of mirror doesn't just reflect visual images, right? It reflects sounds, smells, tastes, tactile sensations, and all mental functions. So all of that, everything in body and mind, all five skandhas, forget about them and throw them into the house of Buddha. Dogen's disciple Kouun Ejo Dayosho wrote an essay called Absorption in the

[35:31]

treasury of light, the treasury of light samadhi. And maybe the peak of this essay is where he says, even if, he says something like, even if 84,000 disturbed thoughts arise and cease, if you just don't get involved in any of them, each thought becomes like this radiant light of Buddha awareness. And he says, just cast body and mind into this treasury of light and don't look back. A similar image. Sometimes we just, Dogen just says, just drop off body and mind. You don't have to put them anywhere. Just drop them off. Same thing from a different angle, right? Cast them into... The treasury of brightness. There's another name for the mirror awareness.

[36:34]

It's an inconceivable treasury, a storehouse of brightness. The womb of light, could also be translated. Throw your body and mind into the womb of light and don't look back. In this case, throw your body and mind into the house of Buddha and don't look back. One commentator says about this line, he says, this particular section of this particular essay, some people say as Dogen's kind of support for what we call pure land practice, which was very popular in Dogen's time in Japan and all Mahayana countries and still practiced Jodoshin. school in Japan. Jodo means pure land. Pure land practice is basically like total faith in Amitabha Buddha.

[37:41]

Like you just, based on the kind of idea that we can't, we don't have, in this degenerate time, we don't have the power to actually practice ourselves anymore. We're too deluded. And, you know, all these emptiness teachings is to It's too difficult for us, and we're too busy to investigate it thoroughly. So we need a simpler, easier path, just total faith in Amitabha Buddha. And the practice is to just recite Amitabha Buddha's name endlessly, and then to be reborn with total devotion, we are reborn into Amitabha's pure land where... where then practice becomes very, very easy. It's not exactly being Buddha in a pure land, but a pure land story is that these realms where the conditions for practice are like perfect.

[38:44]

There's dharma teachings continuously flowing from loud speakers day and night, and all these bodhisattvas are there to just help with any practice difficulties. Like, a little bit like Tastahar. There's no, there's no, in the Pure Land, there's no nerves in one's bottom, so one can sit for like eons without moving and there's no pain. Even on a rock, no problem. Yeah, yeah, that's a nice idea. Pipe the darmatox into the bathhouse. At the monastery I practiced in Japan, actually, during Sashin, you know, the kitchen crew can't attend everything because they have to cook some. But they actually had speakers from the zendo in the kitchen and would have live Dharma talk.

[39:47]

It piped into the kitchen while the cooks were cooking. So, bathhouse possible. We must say, isn't that kind of distracting? Just when you're cooking, just cook, right? That would be our Tassajara philosophy. Even Dogen says, right, when Manjushri appears teaching Prajnaparamita on the edge of the soup pot, you just knock him into the soup. Don't distract me, I'm cooking. That's Dogen's approach to kitchen work. Manjushri soup. Manjushri soup, yeah. And then maybe in the complete stirring of the soup, Prajnaparamita is revealed. Which is a little bit like, in the complete immersion in birth and death, no birth and death is right there. Maybe.

[40:51]

So anyway, they say, because it's casting body and mind into the house of Buddha, then all is done by Buddha. Some people say that's kind of a pure land sentiment of Dogen. It's like, give up yourself and let Buddha take care of you now. A little bit like just surrender to Amitabha Buddha. Then all is done by Buddha. When you follow this, you're free from birth and death and become a Buddha without effort or calculation, without your own power and Buddha will take care of you. Who then continues to think? There's a little thing at the end there. Who then continues to think? You could say, well, maybe thinking still goes on, but now it's Buddha's thinking. Dogen's little, like, testing question. Who then continues to think once all is done by Buddha? It must be Buddha that's thinking. I don't know. So this is also expressed in Dogen's Yobutsu Yurigi, The Awesome Presence of Active Buddhas, another Shobogenzo essay, which came up in the birth and death search in the Shobogenzo.

[42:20]

Dovin says, Do not believe that you're sunk in birth and death, or even think that you exist in birth and death. Do not blindly believe, nor misunderstand, nor disregard birth and death as merely birth and death. Merely your understanding of birth and death. Very similar, right, to what we've been talking about. But then he says... In regard to freely penetrating the great way that completes birth and masters death, there's an ancient statement, quote, a great sage surrenders birth and death to the mind, surrenders birth and death to the body, surrenders birth and death to the way, surrenders birth and death to birth and death. So, surrender, me sounds like cast off your body and mind, drop off body and mind, let go, give up any meddling with anything that's happening.

[43:30]

And surrender is a nice word. Renounce worldly affairs and maintain the Buddha Dharma. Surrender any sense of self-control. Let the mirror host the show. As this teaching is actualized without limitation in the past and present, the awesome presence of active Buddhas is thoroughly practiced immediately upon surrendering birth and death to mind and body and birth and death He continues, for now, the awesome presence of dropping off birth and dropping off death is solely surrendered to Buddha. These kind of sentences, you could just take that sentence and practice with it for countless eons.

[44:37]

Again, for now, meaning now, the awesome presence of dropping off birth and dropping off death is solely surrendered to Buddha. Thus there is an understanding, quote, all things are mind only and the three realms are mind only, unquote. Something about dropping off birth and death, surrendering to a Buddha, At such a time, there is the understanding that all things are merely conceptual fabrications of mind. The three realms of this universe are mind only. Further, in an expression that goes beyond, there is a statement that mind only is called walls and pebbles. Where there is no mind only, there are no walls and pebbles.

[45:41]

So this is Dogen speak. But there is method to his madness. Where there is no mind only, there are no walls and pebbles. There are no walls and pebbles apart from this very mind. There's a mind only teaching, but also a middle way teaching. That walls and pebbles, as we experience them, which is the only way, there are any walls and... pebbles is through our experience. It completely depends on mind. Aren't there some walls and tiles apart from our experience? Maybe or maybe not, but we'll never know, because all we know is our experience, which is mind. When there is no mind only, there are no walls and pebbles. Dogen says, very compassionately, I just, when there is no mind only, there are no walls and pebbles, is that the way?

[46:59]

Yes. So, is he just speculating, or are you saying something that could not get to work? There are no walls and pebbles apart from mind. This is, you know, we have a, there's a mind only school in Indian Buddhism, the Dogen's, very resonant with, which basically states that all the phenomena that we experience are actually just mind. And from the most basic point of view, it might sound wacky, but actually when we just come to look at it, just on the surface, the most easy way to see it is that actually, like this chair, you know, There may or may not be something over here, but we only know it through our experience, through six senses, both our five physical senses and mental conceptions.

[48:04]

It's the only way we ever know anything in this world, right? Even if you're really deluded about it, all those deluded thoughts would still be thoughts arising in your mind. Yes, yeah, yeah. So whether they're accurate or inaccurate, the only way we know the world is through the lens of mind. So the school takes that even further and says, well, do we think that there's, you know, maybe there's, is there a world, if there weren't any minds at all, would there be a world? And it goes so far as to say, no, there wouldn't be. I mean, we can say there may or may not be. Actually, I think it's really important to see that we really can't prove that there is a world apart from mine, because we only know it through mine. So like, you know, does a tree make a sound in a forest when there's no one there to hear it? No. It doesn't, because there needs to be a mind to experience that.

[49:07]

You know, if we have a mental image of a sound coming from a tree falling, then that's a mind-created mental image, but does it actually, out there in the wilderness right now, is there some tree falling that's making a sound? It doesn't have to be us there, but if there's no sentient being there to experience it, it doesn't happen. I mean, and it's pretty logical, right? I think we can actually... come to see that it's pretty hard to disprove that. But then, theoretically, we could say, well, I saw it yesterday, and when I went back today, that same tree was there. Therefore, I can kind of deduce that when I leave, it's still there. But actually, we can't prove it. And it's a little bit different tree every time I go back, depending on mind. I recently, I don't know if I'm representing this 100% correctly, so please correct me if I'm wrong. So recently at Greenwald asked Tenjin Roshi about this mind-only teaching, and they had this dialogue where Tenjin Roshi said, it's not saying that all there is is mind, that there's nothing but mind, because he suggested that it's something called solipsism, which I wasn't familiar with that term, but rather that there is a part that's free of our idea of it, and we don't know what that is, and we may not know what it is.

[50:30]

We don't know. Right. But it's not suggesting that it's all an illusion. Well, we have to be really careful with our words, I think. Okay. You know, exactly. So my understanding of solipsism is that that's like saying that there's only my mind. It's a very kind of like completely self. It's like, well, you mean all of you are just my dream. You know, I don't care about your... versions of mind only. There's just this mind. I am the only one. This mind is the only thing that exists in the universe. That would be like solipsism, as I understand. And so it's very close to that view, and people start to think. It's a little bit frightening, too, right? It's like, I dream up the universe, and I am the ruler of the universe. I'm all there is, right? And it... Well, in a way, it's determined by our karmic disposition.

[51:31]

So it's not like the free will about how to create it is another question, right? But I think it's quite close to that. Experientially, there is. We are kind of trapped in our own mind's version. But it's not solitism in the sense that everybody else also has solitism. the same thing. Everybody else has a mind-constructed world, and obviously they overlap. In a very incredibly dynamic, inconceivable way, we co-construct a world dependent on our species. Again, going back to this retreat hall. This particular group of people, we co-create this as a retreat hall, but like an ant crawling across the floor, and a group of ants down there, this is a different world for them.

[52:37]

It's not a retreat hall. So that's quite obvious that it depends on the mind of an ant or a human, of what it actually is. The previous discussion about middle way teachings is very similar. It says the same thing, that it's dependent, everything is dependent on mind and mental projection. But it doesn't go so far as to say that there is no externality at all. It just says we can't experience any actual externality, whereas the mind only school goes that step further and says, um, there is no basis onto which we're projecting, the basis onto which we project either a retreat hall or for an ant, you know, like a whole universal room, something like that, that there isn't some basis, some actual external basis that we project onto, whereas my understanding of this middle way school says almost the same thing.

[53:45]

The ants and the humans are projecting a different appearance but there is a basis onto which they project, and that basis is not necessarily mind. But it is inconceivable. In other words, we can't, as soon as we try to get a hold of the basis, it's just our mind's version of the basis. The Middle Way school, I understand, says that there is a basis onto which all these different beings are projecting different things. But the basis is not a substantially existent thing. But it's like, it's just, maybe we won't say anything more about this basis. But the Mind Only school says that there is no basis other than just mind. If they said there's a basis.

[54:45]

Well, that's why the basis is not some thing. It's just a basis of designation. They do deny any inherently existent basis, but they don't deny a conventional basis. I came across this point earlier. I probably won't, but it might take me too long to find. But I think we might be able to say that the difference between mind only and middle way is something to do with the basis upon which we project. So maybe I shouldn't go further in talking about what is this basis from the middle way perspective. It's certainly not any substantially existent, essential thing.

[55:48]

I think they often leave it alone, right, because it's kind of just conventional truth. Basically, the enlightenment is realized when seeing that we don't so much have to figure out the basis. It's more just that nothing inherently exists with any essence. And we can see this by noticing how we're projecting and everything is dependent on this essence that we're projecting into things with our mind that doesn't really exist. And what we're projecting onto may not be that important, actually. But the mind-only people just want to make sure that they're really into non-duality. So they just want to make sure that there's nothing external. Everything is just mind. When you live that way, you're kind of living in your body.

[56:51]

It's kind of the view that points, like the example of the chair, to understanding everything as a lived experience through this body, through this mind. And then you're naturally living in the conventional world in some way. Yeah, well, I... So I would, you know, body and mind, though they're inseparable experientially, from the mind point of view, the body is a mental construction. So we're really saying we're living through mind and even all our, you know, body is maybe one of the hardest things to drop off because it seems, for one thing, it seems like it's mine. Therefore, it's the thing we protect most preciously. And it seems like it's so, we experience it through all the different senses, so it seems particularly, like, real. It seems particularly real. And we care about it much more than the chair. You know, you could, like, you know, destroy the chair and be like, well, that's too bad.

[57:58]

But if you start destroying my body, whoa. Because karmic cause and effect is part of mind. So, we've reached the last paragraph.

[59:21]

This last paragraph, I'm The Simple Way to Become a Buddha. I remember when I first, in college, I first discovered Dogen. I think it was a college class on Dogen. And we had Moon and a Dewdrop as the text. And I read through it and I thought, this is really interesting and very strange. And I basically didn't get any of it. It felt like it's interesting, but it's very... I don't know what he's actually saying. But it planted some seeds, maybe karmic seeds for studying more. But, you know, I sometimes would take notes. I'd write quotes from books and stuff. And the only thing from Moon in a Dewdrop, this whole collection of Dogen essays, the only thing I wrote down was this paragraph that we're about to read. And I think because it's so straightforward, it's totally easy to understand, you know, at least on the surface. And how nice. There's a simple way to become a Buddha.

[60:24]

How great! When you refrain from unwholesome actions, are not attached to birth and death, are compassionate toward all sentient beings, respectful to seniors and kind to juniors, not excluding or desiring anything, with no designing thoughts or worries, you will be called a Buddha. Do not seek anything else. Simple, but that doesn't mean easy. And particularly, I almost feel like he's going back and forth in this paragraph between conventional and ultimate, because there must be, after all this, this effort to understand emptiness and ultimate truth, that must be in here too, to be a Buddha, right? So here it has, refraining from unwholesome actions, is the kind of conventional practice of following the precepts. Not attached to birth and death at all means not grasping birth and death as birth and death.

[61:26]

That's like the ultimate practice. Compassionate toward all sentient beings, that's like the conventional practice. Respectful to seniors, kind to juniors, conventional. Not excluding or desiring anything starts to sound more like, to really do that completely is more like the ultimate practice. With no designing thoughts or worries, It's like dropping off any investment in any thoughts could be seen as kind of an ultimate practice. You will be called Buddha. Do not seek anything else. He doesn't say don't seek that, though, right? Just don't seek anything else. Yes? It makes me wonder, because yesterday... You kind of illustrated the middle way as kind of walking this razor between falling into being Bodhisattva, walking the line between falling into Buddhahood and... Well, not falling into ultimate truth or a nihilistic... I think the razor's edge actually is not falling into...

[62:46]

Things truly exist, and things don't exist at all. And the middle way, razor's edge, is like, things appear to arise dependent on conditions, is the middle way. So in this context, he's using the terms Buddha and Bodhisattva interchangeably although he's not actually saying Bodhisattva. Yeah. Did he ever mention Bodhisattva directly? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There is a little, you know, Bodhisattva is on the path to Buddhahood. And Bodhisattva has to walk that razor's edge, too. A Buddha maybe is just naturally gliding along the razor's edge. Bodhisattva is making some effort very carefully to stay on this edge and falling off a lot. Yeah. Well, I think, in a way, so Buddha nature is this awareness we already have.

[63:47]

And now, if we ever get into that kind of language, like we're already Buddhas, which is, you know, it's going a little far to say it exactly like that. It's more like we are Buddha nature, and we are all these obscurations that block the Buddha nature. So we seem to get caught up in all kinds of suffering. And the Buddha, actual... fully realized Buddha is like all the obscurations to the Buddha nature are seen through so there's just no problem. And the Bodhisattva is like on the path to seeing obscurations to Buddha nature as merely appearances. The clouds that block the sky are just wispy clouds and you can kind of see through them. So are you going to ask about compassion? Yeah, this is the time. Yeah, yeah.

[65:06]

You can hear it as practice instruction, and you can hear it as like the natural life of a Buddha. Yeah. I think that's why I wrote it down, because I'm like, here's something I can do. It's sticky on my back and touch. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe it's the simplest thing that Dogen ever wrote. That's why we picked up on it, right? Finally, he actually says something. You can understand. Was there another question? It's a practice and it's the life of Buddha. Yeah, that's what I would propose. Yeah, not quite consciousness, because if we're being careful with terms, consciousness as vijjnana, which is a dualistic fifth skanda.

[66:09]

It's not the fifth skanda, but it's, I think, awareness, a non-dual awareness as opposed to a dualistic consciousness, mirror-like awareness. And, you know, Dongshan calls dual mirror samadhi. Samadhi is the one pointedness of mind and object. So it's a kind of practice of non-duality. Dongshan talks about it, but you could say it's a practice of being what we actually already are. It's a practice of according with our true mirror-like nature of mind. Original face. So this issue of compassion I think is really important and it's easy in these emptiness discussions to kind of like forget all about it because it's so difficult to just talk about emptiness, but This is the union of the two truths, is wisdom and compassion, you could even say.

[67:10]

And the whole point of the Mahayana path to Buddhahood is compassion for all beings. So if we ever get disconnected from that, then we're falling off the razor's edge into the, like, nothing matters or exists side. So it's a difficult thing to talk about, I think. how compassion and the realization of emptiness go together, because beings, our sentient beings that we have compassion for, are empty. They don't really exist except as mere appearances. So, can you really get compassion going around that? So here's, first of all, there's the... There's the Diamond Sutra, has this classic instruction. which is a Prajnaparamita, Emptiness Sutra, about compassion, about this integration, I think puts in a very beautiful way, whenever this topic comes up, I think of this.

[68:12]

The Buddha said, Sabuti, who asked about how Bodhisattva should practice, he said, Sabuti, those who would now set forth on the Bodhisattva path should give rise to this thought, almost like this vow or intention, Bodhisattvas, If you want to be a bodhisattva, this is how you should think. However many beings there are in whatever realms of being might exist, whether they're born from egg, born from a womb, born from the water, born from air, all possible ways of birth. Kind of saying, beings are born, yeah, they appear to be born. whether they have form or no form, whether they have perception or no perception, or neither perception nor non-perception, in whatever conceivable realm of being one might conceive of beings, I shall liberate them all into the realm of complete nirvana. All these types of sentient beings, I vow to save them all.

[69:19]

This is the bodhisattva vow. And, though I thus liberate countless beings, not a single being is liberated. There it is, right? The bodhisattva vows to save all beings, but there aren't any beings. And it's inconceivable how this sounds contradictory, but they have to have this strong vow to liberate the appearing beings but they have to see them as merely appearing beings that they don't substantially exist. It's not that there's nothing, but all of us are coming to be moment to moment and then ceasing moment to moment. And in each given moment there may be great suffering when, and part of the interesting thing here is that the suffering that we have compassion for, compassion means open to suffering. If there weren't any suffering, there's no use for compassion.

[70:20]

Compassion is just the response to suffering. But suffering in these teachings is defined as this misperception of reality. Suffering is all based on grasping essential existence of things. So it's kind of funny that there's these illusory appearances of beings like us. We appear and then we misperceive reality and we grasp it and we suffer. So in a way, we're not really even suffering, right? As the Heart Sutra says, there is no suffering or end of suffering. But it really does seem like we suffer, and therefore, we really do have to give rise to this appearance of compassion. That's the whole point. And yet, it's not really happening. It's very strange, yeah? And the way to liberate beings is to, of course, help in all kinds of conventional ways relieves suffering practically, like doctors can do with a broken leg.

[71:22]

It's helpful. It relieves suffering to some extent, but it does not relieve all suffering. If we really vow to liberate all beings into complete nirvana, then we actually, after the doctor fixes their leg, then they have to somehow start conveying the teaching that actually you never had a leg or a body and it was never broken, and you're not who you think you are. And then next time their leg is broken, it's not such a big problem. So I think this gets very hard to talk about, but I found it happens to be in this book on appearance and reality at the very end, the very end of our discussion here, too. I thought this was a very nice description of this, so much that I just, please allow me to just read. this section. This chapter is called The Two Truths and the Bodhisattva Path.

[72:22]

And this author, Guy Newland, says, Some may see it as paradoxical or even absurd that bodhisattvas develop great compassion for beings who do not exist from their own side. Beings who, from their own side means in and of themselves. Beings who are only conceptually imputed This is how reality is, right? But in practice, wisdom and compassion function synergistically. Realization of emptiness supports, strengthens, and it works together with compassion and altruism in several ways, which now lists. And, you know, it's still a kind of difficult area to reach in words, but I think this is pretty good. Here's one way in which... Wisdom and compassion work together, realization of emptiness and compassion. By seeing that there is no inherently existent difference between self and other, the yogi undermines his or her self-cherishing sense of looking out for number one, oneself.

[73:37]

i.e., that there is a substantially existent self over here that needs to be protected and satisfied to the exclusion of and even at the expense of others. Pretty good, huh? Question about that one? There's more. There's more. So that's one way to think about integrating them. It's about duality here. It's about we project a substantial difference a substantially existing difference between self and other, and that alienates us and prevents compassion. Like, well, your suffering is not my suffering, but that's based on an illusion that the difference between us really exists. The difference between us is an illusion. And also, I, myself, is illusion. So if I'm looking at, like, I don't care about your suffering, but my suffering, I'll have some compassion for that, you know, then we're like, we're... we're being biased in our view of emptiness.

[74:40]

You know, you're empty, but I'm not. So equally empty. So that's one reason. The second is, seeing that she shares with all beings a fundamental nature of emptiness, the yogi strengthens the deep sense of closeness and relatedness to others that is critical to love and compassion. This is a little different. It's more like seeing that our true nature is emptiness. Or we could even say our true nature is this mirror-like awareness, Buddha nature. And we all share that. And because it's so uninteresting, we're not paying attention to it. We get caught up and we have all this. We're all in a suffering boat together. But we also share this pure Buddha nature that's free of all suffering. And in that way, when I think about that, I feel this intimacy. with everyone. In both halves, both that we have this free Buddha nature that we all share equally and the fact that we're all distorting it so ridiculously.

[75:45]

We do this, we block, we obscure our Buddha nature and we all share that too. This strange predicament. We have both sides, right? Delusion and awakened mind. And then a third reason is, in order to aspire to realize Buddhahood for the sake of all beings, knowing the great effort and sacrifice that this will require. Sounds like it requires some effort and sacrifice. The yogi needs firm conviction that it's actually possible to become a Buddha. And I'm sorry, we don't have more time if you don't think it's actually possible to become convinced of this. But it's possible to become convinced that it's possible. In other words, because we already have this Buddha nature, it's possible to just not obscure it anymore. This conviction that it's possible to become a Buddha grows out of an understanding that our present very limited capacity to help others, because our compassion is limited, right?

[76:53]

This limited capacity is not inherent in our nature. Our nature is pure emptiness which opens up endless possibilities of self-transformation. Isn't that kind of a nice reason that emptiness goes with compassion? It's more like our lack of compassion. We're not stuck in our lack of compassion because in emptiness everything is possible. We can become a Buddha that actually saves all beings in the universe. Have any doubts? Finally, last reason, when the Bodhisattva trains in compassion-motivated practices such as giving, these are purified and qualified as perfections, paramitas, through being associated with the Bodhisattva's understanding that giver, receiver, and gift, and giving are all empty of inherent existence. Conversely, this altruistic aspiration of compassion enhances the development of wisdom.

[77:55]

So these were the reasons how the wisdom of emptiness actually aids compassion. On the other side, the practice of compassion enhances development of wisdom of emptiness by providing a very strong and pure motivation to meditate on emptiness because this is the way we can actually free all beings. According to this middle way view, lesser vehicle yogis realize the same profound emptiness that bodhisattvas realize, emptiness of inherent existence or essence of things. However, the lesser vehicle practitioners, motivated mainly by the wish to achieve liberation for themselves, approach emptiness through only a few reasonings and achieve the solitary peaceful liberation of arhats. You've probably heard about this kind of thing. Bodhisattvas, on the other hand, seek to maximize their capacity to help other beings. They become expert in vast numbers of ways to approach realization of emptiness.

[79:00]

This is, I think, our third Bodhisattva vow. Dharmagates are boundless. I vow, literally, to study and learn them. It's literal vow. We say enter them, but I think this is the Bodhisattva's vow to master vast numbers of ways that to understand, teach, and realize emptiness. Driven by their intense altruistic feelings, they train in practices of merit and wisdom for countless eons. Or one moment. And I just would add in one that wasn't listed here. Another reason I've heard before integrating these two is by realizing It's a little bit like this thing of like we're all having this Buddha nature and we're all obscuring it by seeing that it's really possible for everybody, no matter how deluded they are, to realize this because we already have this nature. It's so possible. It's like this little misperception is causing every problem in the world.

[80:04]

This slight misperception of reality is the source of all misery and suffering. That little shift. It doesn't take like, again, it's just like Dogen saying, you don't have to remove samsara to attain nirvana. You just have to understand that right in the midst of samsara is nirvana. So by seeing this slight misperception is the problem, then it can... our compassion and our like, increase our compassion because we see like, I really see that you and me and all of us are suffering due to this, due to this, you know, we're caught in the same predicament of this little misperception and we really can be free here. We really can work this out.

[81:06]

It's possible to do this. By seeing the slight misperception leading to huge problem, like one person has put it like, it's like at an airport stepping into the wrong gate and getting on the wrong airplane. So it's only the two gates are right together. It's a slight misstep, but it leads to a huge, huge consequence because you end up in a different country. It's kind of like that's the misperception of reality. It's a slight thing, but it has huge effects. Creates all, basically all problems in the entire universe are created by this slight misperception. So seeing that and that we're all right on the edge of this possibility, I think that can increase a great, great compassionate wish to like, let's really... do the work on this together. Let's practice and realize the way together.

[82:08]

Yes. It's a few minutes before 5. Please go ahead. Is there a difference between grasping and grasping? No, I think same thing, different translations of upadana, upadana, grasping, clinging, attachment, and basically, in the very first sutra the Buddha ever taught, according to tradition, setting in motion the Wheel of Dharma Sutra, when the Buddha defined suffering, dukkha, discontent, he said, You know, birth is suffering, death is suffering, he actually said. Sorrow, lamentation, pain, grief, despair, not getting what we want, all these conventional things are suffering.

[83:12]

And he said, basically, if we want to get to the bottom of it, all those things, he said, basically grasping the five skandhas, which is longhand for... body and mind, grasping body and mind as like a self is suffering. And all those other types are just descriptions of how it feels. To the upadana skanda, the grasping body and mind as like this independently, essentially existent me. And from that, then we grasp the chairs, tables and retreat halls as essentially existing objects of experience. It's not even the cause of suffering. It's not even that grasping body and mind as me is the cause of suffering.

[84:12]

It's actually technically the definition of suffering. What is suffering, the Buddha said? It's grasping body and mind as me. And then he said, what's the cause, what's the origin of that? Well, craving, all kinds of things. It's a little funny to say craving is the cause of that grasping, because it's a little bit the other way around, too. From this basic grasping, misperception we call grasping, then craving arises. But really, I think they dependently arise. I just asked you, with the mind-only teachings, is there also the teaching of Buddha-nature? Yeah, Buddha-nature has kind of got connected somewhat with the mind-only teaching. For example, Asanga and his kind of like channeling Maitreya and Buddha, who was like the founder of the mind-only school, wrote mostly about very

[85:22]

amazing extensive treatises describing this understanding of mind only and answering all possible questions about it in a very amazingly thorough way. And he also wrote the kind of like classic Indian treatise on Buddha nature, or Chathagadagarbha, as it's sometimes called. So in that way they got kind of connected. And we could talk, there's many ways we could talk about how they're related too, but yeah. any other questions particularly about this compassion and wisdom thing you know I felt that was a very that was one of my favorite one of the best places or best descriptions I found about the real you know understanding emptiness and compassion working together I list for reasons very nicely but still

[86:23]

I feel like, I still feel like a little bit dissatisfied hearing that, right? Because it's so hard to talk about. Like he says, it sounds so paradoxical. Beings are empty of substantial existence, and yet we don't just care about them a little bit. The Bodhisattva has this total, you know, boundless compassion for these illusory appearances. So strange. But... It's so beautiful, too. That's, you know, that's our path. Somehow find ourselves on the Mahayana. When I heard you read it, it sounded to me like the emphasis was wisdom, wisdom, wisdom. Well, this book is, yeah. It's one little chapter at the end about compassion. In this book. Yeah. Yeah. So I just want to instillate compassion. Yeah. And Dogen brings that up at the end there too.

[87:24]

Yeah. Yeah. And in fact, yes, salute, compassion. Tandakirti at the beginning of his, Tandakirti's kind of distant disciple of Nagarjuna, one of the great Indian expounders of this middle way emptiness teachings. And there's this long treatise about emptiness teachings. And at the very beginning, He kind of opens, his opening verse is homage to the Bodhisattva's compassion, which, I don't think I got it. But something like homage to the Bodhisattva's compassion for beings cycling through birth and death who grasp body and mind as a self. He's describing that those are the beings that we have compassion for. It's homage to compassion for beings who are like the moon reflected in water.

[88:27]

The compassion that also understands that these beings are like illusory reflections on the water. So at the beginning is like homage, praise to great compassion of the bodhisattva path. the beings that are caught up in illusions and homage for this compassion for these beings that are actually empty of independent existence. And now I will spend several hundred pages describing how everything is completely empty. We start with compassion and we finish with compassion. And in between we have to have compassion about the whole way of the path. These emptiness teachings are really interesting and really necessary in the end. But if we have to have one or the other as bodhisattvas, I think we have to choose compassion, actually.

[89:34]

Because I don't think we can realize emptiness without great compassion for ourselves and others. And compassion goes a long way even without realizing emptiness. and emptiness without compassion would be, dare I say, pointless. Thank you for that point. We dedicate any merit arising from this investigation of birth and death, samsara and nirvana, to the complete naturally abiding nirvana of all beings and their realization of it. May all suffering beings be free on the spot. Thank you for listening to this podcast offered by the San Francisco Zen Center. Our Dharma talks are offered free of charge, and this is made possible by the donations we receive.

[90:41]

Your financial support helps us to continue to offer the Dharma. For more information, visit SSCC.org and click giving.

[90:51]

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