Good morning. Good morning. So first of all, I wanted to congratulate everyone on completing the Sashin. Wonderful. I actually appreciate the transition into Sashin and out of Sashin, particularly here at Tatsahara. It's not so abrupt. Sometimes I feel like, is it different enough to feel like it's actually Sashin? Think so? I see some heads down here. And still, sometimes people are in a situation where you have to drive many hours and go to Sashin, and then immediately after you leave and get in your car and you drive, and it really stands out at Sashin.

[01:22]

And at the same time, in a way, it's kind of... It kind of contributes to a kind of delusion about, and maybe a difficulty in extending the mind of practice from the Sashin into what we call everyday life. But here, everyday life is a little bit closer to the quality of Sashin. I struggled. As you know, I was not feeling well, and I missed some of it, but I felt my energy coming back the last couple of days, and I was able to at least sit up with a little bit of yaza a couple of nights. I don't quite know what to do with this, so I thought I would just say the Beata Chapman.

[02:26]

Some of you know Beata. She does not make a secret of herself. And she wanted to let everyone know here that she's thinking of people here every day. She almost came to this practice period and then for various reasons did not. So I'm just going to put this over on the table with her little greeting and maybe it can just be over here for a little while. People can come by and check it out. But Viata is sending everyone here her love and support. And I wanted to mention that we have an auditor in our class today. Usually auditors sit in the back. Usually. But it means hearer or listener. It comes from the root meaning. So it's good if the auditor is right up in front where you can really hear. And it's unusual in the practice period.

[03:29]

I'm missing Sojen, who's been right here, doing these classes. And of course, then I missed a couple of them myself when I was out taking care of some of the other responsibilities of central habit. And he did say that he worked through the fourth chapter, fourth talk in here, and so we'll pick up the fifth in a minute. But I wanted to say, Zentatsu Roshi is here by my invitation. My former teacher, when I came to Zen Center in 1972, a few weeks after Suzuki Roshi died, I don't know if you even know, I was sitting in New York with Shimano. Edo Shimano, and I've told this story a few times, but anyway, I heard that, well, we called him Tyson at the time.

[04:34]

Tyson announced that Suzuki Roshi had died. We all offered incense, and then afterwards, after we finished sitting and so forth, I asked people, well, what's happening in San Francisco Zen Center? And they said, he turned it over to an American. I said, well, I thought, well, that sounds interesting. I should go and check it out. So I hitchhiked across the country and a few weeks later, in January, came to San Francisco Zen Center and met you wearing Levi's and a sport jacket in the little bookstore kind of room. It's now the art lounge, we call it. And anyway, I thought, oh, yeah, he's an interesting person. So I really enjoyed studying with Zentatsu for eight years, anyway, before I moved over the hill.

[05:39]

You weren't so bad. He told me I was too stubborn, though. LAUGHTER That's a good trait. I didn't always follow the instructions I was given. Particularly as a director, sometimes I had my own ideas. So anyway, I confess. Somehow it's worked out now that I'm in this seat. So anyway, welcome. Thank you. I'm glad you can be here for a day. All of you. Yeah. I think we interrupt the practice. As little as possible. That was the deal. But the idea was just to come and see, well, what is it like to do a regular practice period day here?

[06:44]

You did come in the summer for also a short visit in the summertime, and that's quite different than the practice period. So let's look at, well, I was going to write up two terms up on the board, re and g, and you probably talked about them last time, right? RE and G, so can someone say what's the meaning of RE? Impossible. Impossible? Beyond meaning. Beyond meaning, okay. Sometimes absolute, yeah. Yeah. And... One. Sometimes we say the real... So it helps me to remember.

[07:45]

I think re and real helps me remember. And then G, I think gee whiz. What are all these things? So phenomena. So then G phenomena. So if there's the noumena, Or absolute, someone's saying. And then in contrast to that, the phenomenal world, which is the world that we're talking about and think we're living in. And of course, as soon as we say it, then re also becomes ji. Because it becomes conceptual. And... So this relates to some of the things that I was talking about in the session about non-thinking.

[08:47]

And we may talk about that a little bit. So if you look at the page 20, Harmony of Difference and Equality Translation there, we're looking now at... Verses 13, 14, 15, 16 today. Sights vary in quality and form. Sounds differ as pleasing or harsh. Refined and common speech come together in the dark. Clear and murky phrases are distinguished in the light. And if you look, turn the page to the... Japanese that we chant. So when we're chanting that you might some of those may register sometimes.

[09:59]

So coming back to then Suzuki Roshi's, because as I said at the beginning, we're studying Suzuki Roshi's teachings, really, using the sandokai as a structure or skeletal framework. As he himself says, it's helpful to study something. So, page 75. I think we'll just... read through some of this so Suzuki Roshi began saying everything has its own nature and form and when you hear a voice it is either agreeable or disagreeable here the Sandokai is talking about sights and sounds the same is true for all the senses as well as the mind there are good and bad taste good and bad feelings agreeable and disagreeable ideas So you might just note there, we started out the practice period talking about the Saripatthana Sutta and talking in there about body sensations and then feeling and states of mind.

[11:17]

And so Suzuki Roshi is really basing this right in that same teaching where he's referring here to the senses which is what the Sandokai is also referring to, all the senses, speaking of sights and sounds, but referring to all the six consciousnesses. And then the feeling, pleasant, unpleasant feelings, and then ideas that then come from that. But then the next line, the Suzuki Roshi here says, it is our attachment to them that creates suffering. When you hear something good, you'll enjoy it. When you hear something bad, you will be annoyed or disturbed. But if you understand reality completely, you will not be bothered by things. How about that?

[12:19]

It's kind of a little maybe encouragement. to say, oh, if you understand reality completely, you will not be bothered by things. Maybe, well, we'll get into that. And then he says, the next phrase gives, the reason we find in common speech come together in the dark. So on is dark. Anwa joshua no katoni kanai. So refined and common speech come together in the dark and that's the reason you will not be bothered. Is that clear? So he goes on. Before I start commenting more, just follow his thought here. He says, we understand things in two ways. In darkness, an, and in the light of form, shiki. where we see things as good and bad.

[13:29]

We know that there is no good or bad in things themselves. It is we who differentiate things as good or bad and thus create good or bad. If we know this, we will not suffer so much. Like, oh, this is what I'm doing. So to recognize how one contributes, makes it how one's own contribution creates suffering, one's own attachment creates suffering, then when you really know that, then you'll not suffer so much. Then he goes on and basically repeats it. Things have in themselves no good or bad in nature. But to understand this is to understand things in utter darkness. So this is... It says, then you're not involved in dualistic understanding of things as good or bad. Sekito says, refined and common speech come together in the dark.

[14:34]

Darkness includes good and bad. In utter darkness, good words and bad words will not disturb you. Clear and murky phrases are distinguished in the light. There are pure words and muddy words. In brightness, we have dualistic words. The duality of pure and impure. This notion of darkness may be a little unusual. And earlier in the first few verses of Sandokai, it uses the word dark as separate from light. But here, darkness actually includes light. Darkness is like the... like Ri, the way it's used here. It's like darkness is first principle. Which is maybe a kind of a Taoist idea in China. That the darkness is the source of like how everything emerges from something that's mysterious, something that is

[15:49]

not graspable something that is what she said impossible to understand so that darkness is like this and so in the sandokai this darkness is going beyond distinction so in this case the darkness is more akin to what happens with non-thinking So in Dogen, talking about dropping away duality, body and mind, and turning this, you know, in Phukhan Zazengi we chanted this morning, he's reminding us of this practice of non-thinking. So this non-thinking is... darkness, but darkness is not also separate from thinking.

[16:53]

So here he's saying that darkness includes good and bad. So good, bad are also understood as darkness in the way it's being used here. You're holding your hand up for a long time here. Does that mean you're, what? Yeah? You read us. Achara's poem. She talked about pushing down the candle work and the light going out. Is that the saying? So when she said, when the light went out, my mind was freed. So it's also that something similar. That in the dark, all things are possible. And that she had been holding on to various ideas in that poem, comparing herself to others and so forth. And her own experience was the light going out and her mind being freed of thoughts of success or failure, good or bad, pleasant, unpleasant.

[18:09]

So this is... This is going back to Suzuki Roshi saying, understanding reality completely, you're not bothered by things. So, is that clear? Yeah. So, the next phrase there, clear and murky phrases are distinguished in the light. Then this is... I'm just immediately thinking of Sajun's question. Is Sajun here? At the Shosan ceremony, talking about boundaries. Can you have boundaries in emptiness? Something like that. So we can say that darkness here is also another way of pointing to emptiness.

[19:17]

But emptiness, sometimes we get some idea that emptiness is just like space. But emptiness doesn't have any particular characteristics. Emptiness. So the entire universe of things that we construct is... whatever shows up is equally empty. Form is empty and emptiness is empty. So this clear and murky phrases are distinguished in the light. This light is also darkness. Clear and murky phrases distinguished in the light. This is also darkness. So Suzuki Roshi says, in brightness, we have dualistic words, the duality of pure and impure.

[20:24]

So that's kind of his whole opening here. And then he makes a big shift into how we sometimes have problems. He goes from the theoretical here to his discussion of what happens if you are bothered. So he says, even though we're angry, even though we're angry at someone, we can still acknowledge that person. So if we know, if we really understand that we're both existing together in darkness, the anger doesn't divide us so much. The anger is supported by this whole confidence of that we are together, actually. We're together. There's anger in the anger. Now, sometimes, if we don't understand this, we turn away in some way.

[21:31]

With anger, we turn away or we draw back. But understanding this, understanding that this is, we are both in the darkness together, and really understanding that, then we can recognize, he's saying, we can still acknowledge that person. So this is a challenge in the practice. Then he talks about teacher and student a little bit. He says, because the teacher knows the student very well, sometimes the teacher will be angry. The teacher knows that the student is very good, but sometimes the student will be lazy. Then the teacher will hit him. Sometimes the teacher will praise or encourage him, but it does not mean we are using different methods or attitudes. The understanding is the same, but the expression is different. Students who are pessimistic, who see things very negatively, should be encouraged.

[22:35]

But if they are too good or too bright, then the teacher will scold them. That is our way. And I'm thinking I don't... scold enough. We're not Japanese. We're all pessimistic. Thank you. I think there's some truth to both of those. There's all kinds of ways to be misunderstood. The other day someone asked me if I was angry at them, and it wasn't clear that I hadn't felt angry at them, but somehow maybe I made a face or something, and the person was beginning to think, oh, he's angry with me.

[23:37]

I don't know what it is. What have I done? So it's good to check it out, actually. It's good to ask if you think someone... Not just me, but if you think any friend of yours is angry at you, you might want to ask and check it out. And if they are, then that's a place that you can meet. You can still acknowledge each other. He's saying that our way of being connected and appreciating each other is not so flimsy. It's not so superficial. we're not going to lose the relationship or sense of being connected by some superficial thing, by being scolded or hit or praised. So this is ongoing sangha practice, as we know, with people making a great effort and then making mistakes.

[24:45]

and feeling badly and apologizing and going forward. So to continue, Suzuki Roshi says, we say positive way and negative way. I'm still on page 76. Positive way and negative way. The positive way, sometimes we say granting way or withholding way. I think that's the language you used to use a lot, granting way, supporting, encouraging, saying yes, withholding way, no, no. So sometimes there may be a phase of training where the teacher actually needs to say no all the time. So you can stand on your own two feet. if you're not just doing something and looking for approval.

[25:49]

So Suzuki Roshi is talking about this, how this Sandokai teaching applies to our practice relationships. And so he says, we say positive way and negative way. The positive way is to acknowledge things in terms of good or bad, beautiful or ugly. If you make a good effort, you will be a good student. To acknowledge a student's effort, to acknowledge the student's effort is a positive way. The negative way is not to accept anything. Whatever you say, you will get 30 blows. That's a great compassionate practice. And pretty hard. Because... Teachers may tend to be attached to their students, too. It's actually kind of hard for them to say no all the time or to cut off a kind of supportive encouragement.

[27:01]

That can be confusing and difficult on both sides. But it's also true that the positive support can be confusing. So it's important to include this whole possibility in your practice. Positive and negative, Suzuki Roshi says, sometimes one, sometimes the other. Usually we are very much attached to either the bright side or the dark side of things. So then he moves on to talking about the koan of Dongshan's Hot or Cold, a very famous koan in a number of koan collections. Here's how Suzuki Roshi presents it. A monk asked a master, it is so hot, how is it possible to escape from the heat? And the master said, why don't you go to a place where it is neither cold,

[28:10]

or hot. The disciple said, is there a place where it is neither cold nor hot? The master said, when it is cold, you should be cold Buddha. When it is hot, you should be hot Buddha. You may think, this is still Suzuki Roshi saying, you may think that if you practice Azen, you will attain a stage. where it is neither cold nor hot, where there is no pleasure or suffering. You may ask, if we practice zazen, is it possible to have that kind of attainment? The true teacher will say, when you suffer, you should just suffer. When you feel good, you should feel good. Sometimes you should be a suffering Buddha. Sometimes you should be a crying Buddha. And sometimes you should be a very happy Buddha.

[29:16]

So this is very straightforward teaching, right? And it's something that sometimes we... get caught, right, in that place of wanting some kind of attainment. Hearing about not being bothered by hot or cold. We want the attainment of not feeling too hot, not feeling uncomfortable. But this teaching is not that you don't feel that you're somehow excused from feeling uncomfortable. It's not the teaching that you're excused from birth and death. It's you're excused from sickness and health. This is the teaching is that you don't turn away.

[30:20]

That you are completely willing to be sick when you're sick. You're completely willing to be hot when you're hot. Completely willing to be cold when you're cold. That means fully participating with your life, no matter what it is. So fundamentally, this is a fearless practice. Not turning away from your own experience. And it's a very personal experience, right? Hot or cold. It's good to know, of course, it's my own experience, you know, something. There may be someone in this room right now who's hot. I don't know. There may be someone in this room right now who's cold. It's very much, you know, this intimate relationship with our own sense experience.

[31:24]

So when you hear Suzuki Roshi say, sometimes you should be a suffering Buddha. Sometimes you should be a crying Buddha. And sometimes you should be a very happy Buddha. Do you hear each of those equally? Equally willing to be suffering Buddha, crying Buddha, or very happy Buddha. There might be a little inclination to think, I want to be the happy Buddha. So then he goes on to explain about that. He says, this happiness... is not exactly the same as the happiness that people usually have, or our usual idea of happiness. There is a little difference, and that little difference is significant. Because Buddhas know both sides of reality, they have this kind of composure. They are not disturbed by something bad or ecstatic about something good.

[32:29]

They have a true joy that will always be with them. The basic tone of life remains the same and in it there are some happy melodies and some sad melodies. That is the feeling an enlightened person may have. It means that when it is hot or when you are sad you should be completely involved in being hot or being sad without caring for happiness. When you are happy you should just enjoy the happiness. We can do this because we are ready for anything. Even though circumstances change suddenly, we don't mind. Today, we may be very happy, and the next day, we don't know what will happen to us. When we are ready for what will happen tomorrow, then we can enjoy today completely. You do this not by studying a lecture, but through your practice. So, pointing again, pointing again to practice.

[33:40]

So even though we're studying this, we're studying his talk, he's pointing to practice. Then he has a little cautionary note. He says, these are Sekito's words. Later in Tozan's time, three generations after Sekito, people got stuck in word games about brightness and darkness. So I think he's talking about the five ranks and other kind of dangerous intellectualizing, say. They liked talking about the bright side, the dark side, and the middle way, but they lost the point of how to obtain real freedom. Dogen So that's all he says about that. And he says, Dogen, who lived much later, did not get caught up in these word games so much. There could be an argument about that.

[34:41]

Dogen used a lot of words. But anyways, he's pointing to Dogen's, his understanding of Dogen's practice realization. Dogen emphasized how to get out of word games by fully appreciating things moment after moment. He was more interested in a koan like, when it is cold, you should be a cold Buddha. When it is hot, you should be a hot Buddha. That's all. To be completely involved in what you are doing without thinking about various things is Dogen's way. This kind of attainment is reached through actual practice, not through words. So again, actual practice. And just coming out of Sashin, I think people have maybe some sense of how fine that point is.

[35:47]

How fine that point is between the words, being involved in the thinking mind while you're sitting, and the practice of non-thinking. He goes on to say, Suzuki Roshi goes on to say, words can help your understanding of things. When you are very dualistic, when you are getting confused, they can help you. But if you are too interested in talking about these things, you will lose your way. We should be interested in actual zazen, not in these words. And we should practice actual zazen. There's a hand up in the back. I can't see who it is, but... Yeah? I'm thinking about a Tibetan monk who, I think he was a guest at somebody's place for dinner, and then the host went to the other room, and while they were away, he put his hand in the, like his brown barley or something to make sempa, and he put it in there thinking, I'm going to have a little meal later on.

[37:04]

And then in the middle of doing it, he realized he was stealing. And so he started shouting out, thief, thief, thief. So the question out of that is whether the observing mind, when the observing mind and the interfering mind get involved with shila practice, I guess. Do you understand what I'm asking? I'm not sure. It's basically something like... whether I should just watch myself break the precepts, or if I should maybe start interfering in some way with myself breaking the precepts, or call myself on it as this guy is doing, you know, something like that. When you notice you're breaking the precept. Yeah, or not following the precept. I mean, I know Siddhartha Roshi says breaking the precept is when you don't follow the precept, and you also don't have any intention to return to it. That's the actual breaking. Yeah. When you notice you're breaking the precept, stop. We can come back to this discussion.

[38:09]

Interesting. I want to finish Suzuki Roshi's discussion here. Dogen Zenji's way, and this may relate to what you're asking about. Dogen Zenji's way is to find the meaning in each being. like a grain of rice or a cup of water. You may say a cup of water or a grain of rice is something that you see in brightness, but when you pay full respect to the grain of rice, I mean when you actually respect it as you respect Buddha himself, then you will understand that a grain of rice is absolute. So that is understanding a grain of rice in darkness understanding a grain of rice as beyond grain of rice and no grain of rice so so I diverged a little bit there but to come back to his final couple of statements he says when you live completely involved in the dualistic world

[39:34]

you have the absolute world and its true sense. When you practice Zazen without seeking for enlightenment or seeking for anything, then there is true enlightenment. So this is very important and difficult to be clear about and remain clear about. When you live completely involved in the dualistic world, you have the absolute world in this true sense. So no separation of the dualistic world and the absolute world. No separation of the bright discerning and the dark empty whole universe.

[40:38]

So he's saying this is our practice to be completely involved with each thing with a grain of rice as Buddha. To completely be involved with each other as Buddha. Be completely involved with what's arising in our own mind. But that doesn't mean to be attached to it. This is very difficult to discern point. What's the difference between being completely involved with something and being attached to something? Usually we have quite a bit of confusion right there. Not knowing how to be involved with something without being attached. attached to our own idea about it, our own preference, our own wishes, our own desires.

[41:49]

And so we think that we're being involved, completely involved with something, but actually we're not involved with something. We're involved with our own attachments. We're involved with our own preferences, involved with our own wishes and expectations and fears and regrets and all that and not the thing itself so when you're stirring the rice you know you might be thinking I hope this rice turns out well and then pretty soon it's you've attached to your own idea of the rice you're not just involved with rice as rice rice as as Buddha, nature. You're involved with some idea and some feeling that, oh, some fear even might be there. Oh, if the rice burns, I might be blamed. Rather than just stirring the rice and just attending to the rice.

[42:54]

It's so easy for us to get caught up then in a whole story about how we're involved with things and completely missing things. completely missing the thing itself. So then he says this very quickly here. And so I wanted to open that up some. But that statement, when you live completely involved in the dualistic world, you have the absolute world in its true sense. So this is Dogen's practice realization. And Suzuki Roshi says, this is Zazen without seeking for enlightenment. Zazen without any gaining idea. Any idea of wanting something other than what is this experience right now. To be completely willing to be fully participating in this experience right now.

[43:59]

This is Dogen's non-thinking. not adding any thoughts. And in the poem, the acupuncture point of zazen, this is his phrase of total effort, total effort without desire. Very challenging. So, Maybe stop there a little bit and see if that's all clear. And some hands are going up. Sounds like, yes, it's clear, right? So, Rin, can... Mindfulness is a good word.

[45:13]

When he's saying words can be helpful, so to have a practice of mindfulness, that can be helpful. But ultimately, in the end, you don't have mindfulness. Mindfulness, we think so much when we think of mindfulness, we think of subject and object as separate. There's me being mindful of something. But mindfulness can be a gateway, say, opening up to intimacy, to direct full participation. Okay? Yeah. No. I was thinking if I had a friend over at my house and she was cold, I would give her a sweater, you know, as an active love.

[46:34]

And is that turning away from the experience of being cold? No, that's acknowledging the experience of being cold. So yeah. So you give her a sweater, or him, him or her, a sweater. It's responding to the conditions, changing conditions. So, like, you know, if you're cold, you put on a sweater. You cut your finger, you get a Band-Aid. You can't actually change the conditions, but you respond. We can respond. So in the world of the dualistic world that we're living in as human beings, we have lots of ways of coping. Sometimes we respond to a cold by generating our own body heat. You don't necessarily need to put on a sweater.

[47:38]

You just turn up your own body heat. So that's also responding to conditions. But it's realizing that so there's a way, say, very simple and direct, fully participating. So unless your friend is a Zen student, and they say they're cold at your house, you probably wouldn't say, you should go to a place where there's no hot or cold. And then they leave, right? They probably wouldn't understand what you're talking about. So a place where there's no hot or cold is to be completely willing to be hot or cold and then to respond.

[48:39]

But you're not bothered by it. Sometimes we have... Say we do have a range, you know, where we do modify things. And then we have a range that kills us. Beyond a certain range, it kills us as human beings. So we do pay attention to that. But it's a different relationship where we actually feel that this is ourself. This is our own body we're taking care of. It's not easy. You don't understand this by explanation. You understand this by practice. You understand this by sitting with your feelings that are in zazen and going through your day, being present with your feelings and not turning away from them and noticing all of the tendencies that come up that

[49:44]

from our own karmic habits, our tendencies that want to push us and pull us. So we're usually all involved in our reactivity before we're even close to just participating with what's happening. So this is pointing to, okay, setting aside my fear about hot or cold, can I be a hot Buddha? I'm your cold Buddha. Can I just be your witness? Denny, your hand was up. Yeah. So yesterday, I was on a break from my safety class. And I was sitting, eating lunch, looking at the ocean. And an older couple came up to me And they said, do you want to see a miracle?

[50:50]

And I had some apprehension. They were going to take the conversation direction. I wasn't particularly interested in, but I was feeling kind of the openness of Sashi. And I was going to let it be what it was going to be. And inevitably, they started to talk about people. Jesus. Jesus, yes. But the man sat down and the woman said that she was going to fake heel his ankle right in front of me. And anyway, I'm thinking to myself, these people are batshit. I mean, they are crazy.

[51:53]

You're having a lot of thoughts then. I thought you were saying that you were experiencing the spirit of Sashin. I was. And then, and then, it just like... why did this seem so strange you know like why and I'm getting to the connections you know it's like where in that sense was like I felt like I was being imposed like this like this whole thing where they weren't dealing with I don't want to make judgments about what they were doing.

[52:56]

But it seemed to me that statement there, that they somehow were not dealing with things as they actually were. I'm trying to find myself. Where was my uncomfort and my sense of going to these people were crazy? If they aren't dealing with things as they actually are, is that they're imposing these ideas that Jesus is telling them to go around doing all these things. I don't want to make this about Christianity, but to me it was just such a kind of... So what's your problem there? Do you have some problem there? Yeah, because I don't have a problem. Oh. What's your question? With the long intro, we haven't seen anything.

[53:58]

I wanted to, like, it was that we... Okay, let me bring in one more thing. Can it just be your question? Here's my question. We see mountains, the river... And then we don't see mountains. And then we see mountains. And it's like, how can we get to the third one? How do you get to the third one without a gaining idea? You have to set aside your gaining idea. through a faith where we actually know that there are no mountains? Well, that's setting aside you're gaining an idea.

[55:05]

That's the idea that the mountains, let's say that, that these mountains, these people mountains, are separate from me and they're imposing on me. to be setting aside, say, setting aside, or to actually just be meeting and not turning away from that idea itself, that experience, that experience, until there's no separation between you and mountains. No separation between you and these people. Crazy, not crazy, whatever. So this is the practice, Suzuki Roshi is saying, to be completely willing to show up moment by moment, present moment, present moment. Not worried about whether it's form or emptiness or getting to some other place where to pass through this phase of enlightenment that I'm in.

[56:22]

I want to get over this phase of enlightenment to the real good stuff. So this practice itself, Dogen and Suzuki Roshi are saying, this is without seeking for anything. This is for enlightenment. So it may be good to have that kind of mind of no You know, not knowing. I don't know. I'm just noticing how this is... I'm noticing how this is feeling. These people are here and they're doing this and I'm noticing how this is... And I'm continuing to not know, you know. Not so easy.

[57:23]

Not easy. It's pretty difficult even just sitting still in the Zendo, right? It's pretty difficult to have your own oryoki lunch and not be attached to anything that happens. Pretty difficult to be on the serving crew and make a mess and clean it up. Make a mess and clean it up. Then noticing all the tendencies to go, oh, I start to think, oh, I'm really looking stupid. And who knows, whatever thoughts are coming up. To acknowledge those without also, to be fully involved with them means you're not wishing that they were any different.

[58:30]

Whatever those thoughts are, you're letting them, and you're also just taking care of what needs to be taken care of. So this practice of moment by moment accepting everything as it is, including all of your own thoughts and karma, and then taking care of the next thing. This is this practice of being fully engaged. I don't know if Danny saw a miracle on it. Did you see a miracle? I did see a miracle. Allison. If I do happen to get blamed for burning the rice, could I then say, oh, if you understood reality completely, then you would not be bothered by it.

[59:44]

I would not be bothered by the burned rice. Exactly. Would that be a good response? Try it. I may notice. I may like burned rice. I may like burned rice. I may not like burned rice. At the same time, I may say it's not a matter whether I like burned rice or not burned rice. Taking good care of the rice means we don't burn the rice. But when we do burn the rice, we just say, oh, excuse me, I'm so sorry. And then we appreciate each other's effort. Because we know that a lot of things that we do don't turn out the way we want them to.

[60:51]

And even if they appear to turn out the way we do want them to, we have to be careful. That's only part of the story, too. There may be unforeseen, unexpected consequences from perfectly cooked rice. So whatever it is, you can say, Hojo-san, don't be bothered. That's very kind of you. If I am bothered. But you can't assume, really. It really doesn't make sense to assume that I'll be bothered. You can check and see, were you bothered by the burned rice? And I may say, oh, was it burned? I didn't even notice. Or I may say, that was terrible. But the danger is people are assuming that somebody else is going to be bothered and then they're going to blame me and then it's going to, yeah.

[62:06]

Okay. Yeah. Heather. Wishing things to be different, so it's still something. But doesn't the wish to make it clear free up the response to making it? Wishing things to be different, free up responding to things? Thank you, Kitchen. yeah wishing it to be different we could all stand around for a long time and wish it to be different is that what you mean?

[63:17]

Oh, to see, in a sense, cleaning it up is like wishing it to be different? Well, cleaning it up is first acknowledging the way it is. First thing. And then how to take care of it is the next thing. How to help it. So, yeah, that's not really wishing it to be different. It is what it is, right? It is what it is, but then the question is, what's next? So what's the response? What's the response? So first is, it's really to see it as it is. Oh, okay, this bill is like it is. And then what's the... What is the response action? So you might say in there, there may be an image, some imagination, some imagining of, oh, what this could look like.

[64:38]

So we do that. We do contribute our creative idea. Oh, I have a creative idea. This could be cleaned up. So that's also part of human life is to have creative ideas and then have a moment there to check and make some discernment. So we do get into participating with all those little steps which can be happening very fast. So is this the right time to clean it up or is this the right way or do we have the right tool for this? There may be all kinds of considerations that can be considered. as a part of, oh, what's the response? So the stone wall falls down, and then we think, oh, the wall fell down.

[65:41]

So that's completely accepting what is as it is. And then we have a chance to be helpful. Elizabeth. You're going to tell another story? Can it be brief? Okay. Uh-huh. And a man came up to Suzuki Roshi and started, and we were in the fall of flowers, started giving a tour. He was very integrated. And he was saying the correct thing about plants. And I said to Dara, what should we do? And she said, Suzuki Roshi can take care of himself. We were in a line behind him and the cat.

[66:46]

And the man came back to us and was playing his tour, like he was with dosa. And Suzuki Roshi just knew him in a different way. And the guy didn't even notice, but you all felt severe. He was going on. Giving his tour to his imaginary disciples. Right. Yeah. Well, sometimes that's the way to be completely involved with the situation. Yeah. You don't have to be caught by someone else's idea. Yeah. You had the idea you should have to protect Suzuki Roshi from such a thing. We've gone on quite a bit here. I wonder as the auditor if you wanted to add any comments in listening to all this and seeing if we're making a good use of Tassahara or not.

[67:49]

Wow. Well, I mean, I really appreciate this wonderful discussion. And it reminded me of how practice, the merit of practice, sneaks up on you in the dark. And the example that occurred to me while we were discussing it, I had a Hamada come. He was a national treasure, carpet, potter that somebody had given me in the 60s. I always used it. And my daughter... A teacup? A teacup. It was more of a coffee cup than he usually made tea bowls and fases. But this... He was on some sort of pottery workshop in San Jose. And somebody got one of the cups and gave it to me and I used it for years, and my daughter, Sally, who's now 49, knocked it over.

[68:56]

She was about 7 or 8. She knocked it over, and it broke. And I remember I was so surprised, because I loved the cup, that I didn't care. I thought, well, it suddenly just became a thing to clean up. It was not the cup, so it was a thing to clean up and repair. And I said... I never used to feel this way. This must be the fruit of practice. And so the marriage of practice snuck up on me in the dark. And I didn't notice it until the cup broke. Thank you. So it didn't come from trying to get there. No, I just was practicing in the dark and the cup broke in the dark. And in the light, I said, oh. Yeah. Okay, clean it up.

[69:57]

Yeah. I broke Harry Roberts, one of his favorite cups. You did? I did. This was Eddie Vaughn's place when I went in and I was washing the cup and somehow it banged into the faucet spout and dropped into the sink and broke and took it in. The cup that... very special cup because it had dentalia and other shells that had been, you know, out of clay, that had been part of it. We all have our knocking-over breaking stories. And Harry just said, oh, it's gone. So, thank you all for your patience and please continue your practice of being fully engaged in a dualistic world with each thing as absolute in the dark.

[71:08]

Okay? Thank you for listening to this podcast offered by the San Francisco Zen Center. Our Dharma Talks are offered free of charge and this is made possible by the donations we receive. Your financial support helps us to continue to offer the Dharma. For more information, visit sfcc.org and click Giving.

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