This podcast is offered by the San Francisco Zen Center on the web at www.sfzc.org. Our public programs are made possible by donations from people like you. Good morning. Awakening Bodhi Mind. We are one Bodhi mind. It's good to acknowledge that of this Rohatsu Sashin. Rohatsu Sashin is recognizing and fully participating wholeheartedly in Buddha's enlightenment. and Bodhi mind in this say enlightenment is not something that happened happened or even happens and yet it's enlightening ongoing practice so Rohatsu Rohatsu just means the eighth day of the twelfth month

[01:27]

which is a date that some people settled upon as a time to recognize Buddha's enlightenment. And so we're starting a couple of days late. But we can start any time. So we just chanted, awakening Bodhi mind, we are one Bodhi mind. And this is actually directly referring to the thought that we, in the Zen tradition anyway, the thought that we say Shakyamuni Buddha had, and the words that he exclaimed, when he saw the morning star and awakened.

[02:34]

This is the first case of the Denko Roku. I copied out two versions here. This is the Cook translation. The Denko Roku begins in a very straightforward fashion, just with these words. Shakyamuni Buddha saw the morning star and was enlightened. And he said, I and the great earth and beings simultaneously achieved the way. In the Nirman translation it says, let's say equally straightforward, Upon seeing the morning star, Gautama became Shakyamuni Buddha and was, is, and will be awakened to his true self and said, says, and will say, I was, am, and will be enlightened together with the whole of the great earth and all its sentient beings simultaneously.

[03:55]

Simultaneously means it includes past, present, and future. The great earth and all beings. So that's to include past, present, and future here. In the Nierman translation he says, was, am, and will be enlightened together with the whole of the great earth and all its sentient beings. simultaneously. Actually, it's not so easy talking about enlightenment in some meaningful way, but that's what I want to do, feel compelled to do, or invited to do. Um... I was recalling one of my old friends, Issan Dorsey.

[05:05]

Issan was, in the later, last years of his life, he was the abbot of Hartford Street Zen Center in San Francisco. I remember going to... There was some big event. Many people attended. I don't know, several hundred people at least attended some event at San Francisco State. It seemed to be organized by some Tibetan group. And they had a panel discussion. And up on this... So I... I happened to be able to go to this, and I was just sitting there in the audience, and right up on the stage were several people, including Ihsan. And right next to him was Steve Allen. Some of you know Ihsan, and some of you may know Steve Allen.

[06:12]

Steve Allen is now the abbot of his own place called Dragon Mountain in Colorado. So they're sitting up on the stage and there's, I don't remember, the presentation had to do with, I think, with engaged Buddhism. And there was a question, someone asked a question to Isan. They addressed him particularly and they said, what is the role of altruism in your And Ishan said, altruism. And he turned to Steve and said, what's altruism? And Steve Allen said, it means putting others ahead of yourself. And Ishan says, oh, we don't do that.

[07:15]

He said, we just opened the door. A little while later, I don't know, some weeks later maybe, he called me up maybe because he'd seen me there and asked me to come over and talk about the gardens at Hartford Street. And so I went over and we talked about the garden and he talked about he wanted to buy the house or lease the house right next door so that they would have more room for people to come in who were dying of AIDS and so that they could take care of them at Hartford Street. So we talked about how that would affect the gate and the walkways and all the layout of the garden and so forth. Then I asked Isan, I don't know, something prompted me.

[08:20]

I said, Isan, what are you really doing here? And he said, Anuttara Samyaksambodhi, without any pause at all. And he said, and you? I said, yes, that's right. Really made it. impression on me. So I said, what are you really? So I have all this talk about the garden and about taking care of people who are dying of AIDS and buying the place next door. And when I said, what are you really doing here? He said, Anuttara Samyak Sambodhi. In those days, we chanted the Heart Sutra with that Anuttara Samyak Sambodhi in Sanskrit. in the Heart Sutra, so it's very familiar. Now we don't, in our current translation, we don't have that.

[09:23]

We have what it means, I think we have unsurpassed, complete, perfect enlightenment. Something like that we have in our current version. Unsurpassed, complete, perfect enlightenment. So this is what we're doing. That's what Nisan was doing and that's what we're doing here. Unsurpassed, complete, perfect enlightenment. This is not a matter of how you feel. You don't have to necessarily be feeling good to be doing Unsurpassed, complete, perfect enlightenment. So it doesn't mean discounting whatever feelings you have.

[10:28]

This says Shakyamuni awakened with the entire earth and all the myriad beings. So none of the... Myriad beings are excluded. Even ones who are feeling miserable or having trouble getting up in the morning. Or even beings that are having the thought, I shouldn't be feeling like this. I wish I was enlightened. Even beings that are having some gaining idea. when we say without a gaining idea. So this practice is going beyond any particular thoughts or feelings, ideas you might have. And you're already included in it.

[11:36]

And since you're already included in it, then you can... you can take up this practice of being who you really are. So when I said, Ihsan, what are you really doing? What are you really doing? Complete, perfect enlightenment. Even though he himself, at the time, was dying of AIDS. We had another couple of years, I think, at that time. So what is enlightenment? Even though you're already included in it, it's also something to cultivate. So we have this practice

[12:40]

So one side, renunciation. Other side, cultivation. One side is not doing things and the other side is doing things. And right in the middle is neither doing nor not doing. The middle way. So sometimes we talk about the hindrances, which I talked about earlier on in this practice period. And this time I thought I'd talk a little bit about factors of enlightenment. Not that... Again, that that's something that you need to get, but when factors of enlightenment are present, it's good just to acknowledge that. The first factor of enlightenment... In the classical Buddhist list of factors of enlightenment, there are seven.

[13:44]

Bo, Janga, factors of enlightenment. And the first is sati, or mindfulness. Mindfulness is present in all what are called wholesome states. So mindfulness is... I could say it's simply aware of whatever is present and attentive to whatever is present. The second factor is I usually think of it as inquiry. second factor of enlightenment is inquiry. Inquiry, particularly investigations of what is, investigation of phenomena.

[14:54]

So this is a practice as we have it here, sitting together in this room, simply being aware that with a quality of inquiry. So whatever your feeling is, whatever your thought is, whatever arises, is, whatever it is, the practice is to be present with it and bring some I'd say lightly held inquiry. Not obsessive inquiry. Lightly held inquiry. The inquiry is not then disturbing what is being observed. So you may notice with your breath as you're bringing attention to the breath that the attention itself on the breath

[16:08]

may have desire in it. That pure attention would have other factors of enlightenment, particularly equanimity. The factor of equanimity is the point at which there's no particular desire. But you may notice that When you bring awareness to the breath, that you find in that inquiry into the breath and in that attention on the breath, there is also some desire. You may want the breath to be there. You may want a different breath. You may want a long breath when you're having a short breath. You may want a breath that's easy when actually your breath has tension around it or in it.

[17:13]

You may want to feel the breath here, but you only feel it up here. All kinds of experiences may come up along with this practice of mindful attention on the breath. So this is a good place to remember that mindfulness itself is a factor of enlightenment. Being aware of something that's painful or difficult or not what you want, being aware of it is a factor of enlightenment. Sometimes I found this very encouraging. When the whole situation is not what I want, right? It's not what I want. But to remember that I'm aware of it as a factor of enlightenment is encouraging.

[18:19]

Oh, before I forget, I should mention a couple of things. Well, I've just been mentioning once. I've been mentioning breathing. I thought, okay, it's good to remind people. It's good for me to remind myself to pay attention to breathing. Breathing mindfully in-breath, mindfully out-breath. Again, it may be helpful in this, particularly the first few days of Sashin, to count the breath. Counting the breath is a little bit mechanical way. But it is a way of reminding oneself to bring attention to the breath. So there's a kind of basic integrity and honesty in counting from one to ten.

[19:34]

And noticing when I'm not, oh, I didn't make it to ten. I made it to two. And come back to one. Just that practice of bringing attention back to what is available right here. And available right here primarily is body and breath. An activity Mindfulness is bringing attention to the movement and bringing attention to contact with some object, you know, in activity. So when Ed Brown became Tenso and he asked Suzuki Roshi what should be his practice, and Suzuki Roshi said, when you're cutting the carrot, cut the carrot.

[20:35]

your mind should be right there cutting the carrot. When you stir the soup, stir the soup. So your mind is right there with the movement, the activity, the contact with the utensil stirring the soup. And Ed Brown likes to tell the story about when he went in, after he'd had this instruction over and over again, cut the carrots, when you cut the carrots, stir the soup, and you stir the soup. He had this instruction over and over. And yet he was feeling frustrated in the kitchen. As Tenzo, his frustration was that other people in the kitchen were not doing what he thought they should be doing.

[21:37]

So he went in to Suzuki Roshi and he said, there are people in the kitchen who are coming in late and when they're supposed to be cutting the carrots they're thinking of something else. When I asked them to stir the soup, they don't even want to stir the soup. He went on and on. And Suzuki Roshi just listened patiently to Ed, and Ed said he thought that Suzuki Roshi would join him compassionately by saying, yes, a good help is really hard to find. It's a shame you have to work with these Zen students. But instead, Suzuki Roshi said, what Ed heard Suzuki Roshi say is it takes a calm mind to see virtue in others and Ed's first reaction was no that's not what I'm talking about but he didn't say anything he considered oh this is putting it back on

[23:03]

This practice, the practice of cultivating a calm mind, is that possible? Is it possible to actually... Is that even a good thing to do when other people are being so annoying? Shouldn't I change them first? Shouldn't I get them to not be annoying and then I can have a calm mind? So this is actually Suzuki Roshi's directly teaching factors of enlightenment. The factor of enlightenment, one of them is tranquility or composure, calm mind. Oh yes.

[24:09]

I was just thinking this today when people are serving and having this wonderful kind of orchestra harmonizing of oryoki meal. That the bao is equally nourishing with the food in the bowl. That the When the server comes and bows, and then there's the serving process. So all this is opportunity for mindfulness on both sides, on the server side and on the receiver side. And then at the end of serving, then the server stands and bows. And to me, that's particularly... a powerful nourishment moment.

[25:12]

Moment of nourishment. If there isn't some other idea, and for a server it's like, okay, moving on to the next person, if you begin to think, oh, I'm moving on to what? The next person or something next, or the person who's receiving it has some feeling about... Did I get enough or did I not get enough? What is this anyway? Whatever those thoughts may be may interfere with the emptiness of the server, the receiver, and the offering of food. So it's interesting how emptiness, in emptiness everything flows completely harmoniously, smoothly.

[26:20]

Everything is flowing completely harmoniously. And there's complete nourishment, complete satisfaction in the moment. So when we bow together, right there, that's a profound moment of receiving this gift without being a receiver. Of dropping any ideas one may have at that moment. And of being the one serving, of giving this. One's in a position of of being a great benefactor, great generosity. So I just wanted to call attention and remind people, particularly during this session, but each time, that moment is a precious moment, bowing together.

[27:31]

And so it involves tuning in So we're all tuning in. So it's two people or three people tuning in with each other. And you can feel it with your whole body. The server can feel it and the person receiving. Feel it with your whole body. So this is a responsiveness that doesn't leave anything out. It includes everything. And then with our chanting, so during the seshin, we're in a different formation around the room than we are during service. The service formation is like we've all left the zendo and we've gone to the Buddha Hall. We've gone to the Buddha Hall, now here's the Buddha Hall, and we're all lined up doing service in the Buddha Hall. But during seshin, we stay in the zendo.

[28:34]

so we're not going off and lining up differently. But the space is different. So it takes a little while to tune in to the complete harmonizing of everyone in this formation, in the Zen Dao. So I just want to call attention. We have the chant books. We're using chant books so that we can actually be all with precisely with the syllable that we're chanting at this moment. We don't have the guidance of the Mokugyo, so we really have to generate our own attention, our own energy, so that we're not ahead or behind. And so that we all have one voice. So we're actually chanting with one voice. Actually, I felt last night when we did the refuges, the feeling... One voice. And each person has their own voice.

[29:40]

So each person is true to one's own voice. To be true to your own voice is how you can be true to the greater one voice. So neither is excluded. So this is how Shakyamuni Buddha wakes up right here with all beings being unique true to themselves and true to the totality of things simultaneously so in each moment of our practice here we have this wonderful opportunity um I copied out something from Suzuki Roshi talking about enlightenment.

[30:48]

So this is our particular lineage understanding. Suzuki Roshi talked about enlightenment many times in many ways. So there's no particular way. We don't even have some particular understanding. of enlightenment. We're always ready to discover enlightenment. Always ready to creatively participate in enlightenment. But one time he said, this was during a talk here at Tasahara on the Sandokai. He said, When you strive to reach a goal or attain enlightenment, you naturally have the idea, I am far from the goal, or I am almost there. But if you really practice our way, enlightenment is right where you are.

[31:52]

This may be rather difficult to accept. When you practice zazen without any idea of attainment, there is actually enlightenment. Dogen Zenji explained that in self-centered practice there is enlightenment. And there is practice. Practice and enlightenment are events that we will encounter in our life. But when we realize practice and enlightenment as events that appear in the realm of the great Dharma world, then enlightenment is an event that expresses the Dharma world, and practice is also an event that expresses the Dharma world. If both express or suggest the big Dharma world, then actually there is no need to be discouraged if we do not attain enlightenment. Nor should we be extremely happy if we do attain it, because there is no difference.

[32:55]

Practice and enlightenment have equal value. If enlightenment is important, practice is also important. When we understand this point, within each step, we have enlightenment. But there will be no need to be excited about it. Step by step, we will continue endless practice, appreciating the bliss of the Dharma world. That is practice based on enlightenment. practice beyond our experience of good or bad, beyond self-centered practice. So this practice that we're doing is just that, just enlightenment. I'd say, but maybe it's, again, it feels like too much like it's a substantial thing to say it is enlightenment.

[33:58]

Because this effort is continuously needed, this effort to be attentive and fully participating in this present moment. So having some idea of something else, even a little bit different, even with a little bit of a sense of something's lacking here, which means there's some expectation or some desire. And that is actually maybe clouding or obscuring this full practice. So pay attention to that. And notice when you're adding something extra. Then I wanted to read a little bit from Kezon's Tesho in the Denko Roku.

[35:12]

Kezon says, Do not hold a false notion of Gautama becoming Shakyamuni and realizing enlightenment. Do not see Shakyamuni Buddha as apart from the whole of the great earth and all its sentient beings. All of you, too. arise within the I of Gautama. Nothing is excluded. The I, and this is the Nirman translation, the I and the with. So when he's referring to when Shakyamuni says, I, along with the great earth and all beings, he says, the I and the with are neither the same nor different. Indisputably, the skin, flesh, bones, and marrow of all of you, all of you, are entirely with, while that which dwells within is the I. In short, if you want to make acquaintance with the undying one within the hermit's hut, how can you possibly separate from this bag of skin?

[36:22]

Do not construct some intellectual understanding of the great earth and all sentient beings. So when I read this phrase here in his tesho saying, how can you, in short, if you want to make acquaintance of the undying one within the hermit's hut, how can you possibly separate from this bag of skin? I thought, well, I should read the Sawanka. Because this is a direct quote that Kezon borrowed from Sekito Kisen. Sekito Kisen wrote this and he also wrote this poem called, Song of the Grass Roof Hermitage. People know this? Yeah. I've built a grass hut where there's nothing of value.

[37:30]

After eating, I relax and enjoy a nap. When the hut was completed, fresh weeds appeared. Now it's been lived in, covered by weeds. The person in the hut lives here calmly, not stuck to inside, outside, or in between. Places worldly people live, she doesn't live. Realms worldly people love, she doesn't love. Though the hut is small, it includes the entire world. In ten square feet, an old person illumines forms and their nature. A Mahayana bodhisattva trusts without doubt. The middling or lowly can't help wondering, will this hut perish or not? Perishable or not, the original master is present, not dwelling south or north, east or west.

[38:34]

Firmly based on steadiness, it cannot be surpassed. A shining window below the green pines, jade palaces, or vermilion towers can't compare with it. Just sitting with head covered, all things are at rest. Thus, this mountain monk doesn't understand at all. Living here, one no longer works to get free. Who would proudly arrange seats trying to entice guests? Turn around the light to shine within, then just return. The vast, inconceivable source can't be faced or turned away from. Meet the ancestral teachers. Be familiar with their instruction. Bind grasses to build a hut and don't give up. Let go of hundreds of years and relax completely.

[39:35]

Open your hands and walk, innocent. Thousands of words, myriad interpretations are only to free you from obstructions. If you want to know the undying person in the hut, Don't separate from this skin bag here and now. So there's a lot of good kind of a spirit of spaciousness in this small hut that includes the entire world. There's lots of instruction. In fact, it says, meet the ancestral teachers. Be familiar with their instructions. But it says the vast, inconceivable source can't be faced or turned away from.

[40:36]

So this is just being right here, completely still. You don't have to look for the source You can't find it if you look for it and you can't turn away from it. So this is reminding me of what I read during Zazen this morning of Gautama finding a delightful place to sit. Finding a delightful place to practice. Oh, what a delightful place. Clear water, stream. and places around for begging, for alms, gathering. I thought, well, this is Tassajara.

[41:37]

We have a wonderful stream, clear water, and we have people bringing in alms all summer long. So this is a nourishing place and it's a delightful place. A good place that's fit for realizing the true nature of things. A good place for realizing the inconceivable source. So this is what If we have a task, our task is to be completely alive right here, this moment. So the second factor of enlightenment that has to do with inquiry includes courage, includes fearlessness.

[42:52]

Includes being willing to see what is as it is. Enlightenment is not what you think. Not what you think it will be. The next moment is not what you think it will be. So this is the difficulty of this practice. to again and again summon up the confidence that this entire inconceivable source is already right here. And it's already supporting one. And to have confidence in this is not to have confidence in anything particular. Not to have confidence in something you can already know in advance. It means to be willing to face the unknown moment by moment.

[43:55]

So as you refine your attention as you're sitting zazen and you're doing your chanting and you're serving and being served and you're stirring the soup to be completely present with that is an act of fearlessness, an act of not knowing, an act of being ready to meet what is with equanimity, with composure. Thank you, kitchen. So I wonder, is that clear?

[45:10]

Are there any questions? Yes. Sometimes it seems along with the awareness is a sense of love. Is that also something extra? Well, it depends on what you mean by love. So love, in the English language, is a very interesting word. It can be confusing. there is a kind of love that is say like a completely intimate connection completely intimate appreciation without grasping grasping is

[46:26]

Maybe conditional love. Sometimes we even say unconditional love. I think there's a song. Give me your unconditional love. So if there's a give me in it. So you see. Yeah. So when you notice the give me, then if you can drop the give me, then maybe, yeah, then that's unconditional love. Okay? But that's wonderful to have the feeling of full appreciation, a kind of a... In a sense, a kind of warmth.

[47:29]

Yeah. Shogun. I see those two more hands over there. Shogun. There is something different than that that is tranquility or equanimity. Because I don't necessarily feel at ease with pain and suffering.

[48:37]

But I try not to turn away from it to give it my full attention. so what do you so what I hear you saying is maybe there's some factors of enlightenment that are present and awareness is present mindfulness is present to the degree that you notice there's also some other attachment some other self-cleaning So to stay right with that is to deepen the practice of mindfulness. So in this lineage practice, we don't necessarily specifically cultivate factors of enlightenment.

[49:51]

But when something comes up, we have an opportunity to cultivate a factor of enlightenment. So as Suzuki Roshi is saying to the Tenzo, oh, you have a chance. You have a chance to cultivate calmness. So to notice, it's helpful to recognize, okay, no, there's not... full-fledged equanimity here you know that in itself is mindfulness and it is also say practicing in the direction of cultivating equanimity so in in that practice then there is the investigation of dharmas, investigation of phenomena, one begins to notice, simply notice how and say, by how, to actually notice exactly what is the experience that is

[51:18]

contributing to a lack of equanimity. So to notice what is contributing to a lack of equanimity, one may notice one is holding on to something other than what is. Some idea of something, wanting something to be other than what is. So that, when you're capable of that, then that means, okay, then you are actually utilizing that factor, that kind of enlightenment of inquiry, of investigation. So this, yeah, stay with it. Don't give up. Okay. Judith? I think you're in the territory I was wondering about, which was, I was surprised to hear the word striving in what you said, and then cultivating, and I was wondering about cultivating without striving, actually.

[52:38]

Without trying. Is that... Yeah, well, Not without, I'd say, you know, there's, maybe instead of striving, we could say right effort. What is right effort? So there is, I'll say, really a steadiness of, a steadiness of, of awareness and the steadiness of awareness is directed to this what is this so it's not so striving may be misleading as if striving means trying to get something else or to get at the same time there is we don't exclude

[53:43]

that there's somewhere else. We don't exclude that there is development. We don't exclude that there is a path. Our understanding of the path is the path is empty. There's no path. And therefore, there's path. So there is cultivation. There is a development of one's capabilities. There's development of one's, say, skill, upaya. There is that. At the same time, it's not moving away from what is. It's not striving in the sense of trying to, say, detach or create some separation from what is right now. Yeah?

[54:47]

OK. Great. There's a hand back there. Yes, Joel. I'll just share a story that pertains to this case. If it's short. I was once feeling very imperfect. And I had a drive. And I had a cassette. And it was a talk by Daito Roshi. And the title was, Shakyamuni Buddha Faces to Perfection. So I said, great, this is a good one for me today. And he said, okay, the talk, I played it. The talk is, Shakyamuni Buddha Faces to Perfection, Case One, Dekoroku, Shakyamuni Buddha Sotomayor, Star. And that was a way of looking at the story, which I had never thought of. still seems very paradoxical.

[55:47]

We talk about complete, perfect enlightenment, and he's pointing to an aspect of enlightenment, whatever that is, in which it's very much concerned with imperfection. Wonderful. So... It's... Yeah, so it's a reminder. When we think of unsurpassed perfect, complete perfect enlightenment, we might think it does not include imperfection. Right. But for it to be complete, perfect enlightenment, it has to include everything, including imperfection. Yeah. Daito is on to something there. Yeah.

[56:49]

Brendan, yeah. Well, you have many resources. So what are some resources for navigating the path? I'd say. This is really what Dogen is talking about in Bendowa, negotiating the way. You have the resource of all these... enlightened capacities. You have the resource of mindfulness.

[57:51]

So I won't go into all that list there. You have the resource of not knowing. Not knowing may be also understood as open-minded. The resource of being open-minded. So not knowing what the path is, maybe not something someone would usually think of as resource, but to think, not knowing what the path is, is actually resource, an opportunity. Then there are, I'd say, it's great to have the resource of the three refuges, To know, okay, there is some, there is enlightenment.

[58:56]

To know that there is teaching. To know that there is sangha. So at any given moment, it's good to check and see, okay, is there something that offers me support? There's some guidance for this path in the three refuges. from this awakened nature, which means clearly seeing. Sometimes one has to step back a little bit to see clearly. Is there something in the teachings that are being transmitted? Is there something in sangha relationships where I can actually I can actually ask my friends, what do you think? And then your own power of discernment can, say, be informed in all these resources.

[60:14]

everything that comes up in front of one is path. This is path. Whatever. Whatever arises. So, you know, not turning away from it. However, if it's coming at too great a speed, with too much energy, there's some wisdom in stepping aside. Yeah. There's a picture of Suzuki Roshi and Mitsu, his wife. They're sitting together. And she's going like this. And he's ducking. So not turning away doesn't mean being stupid. It means, oh, when something's coming, oh. So using all one's faculties.

[61:21]

And, of course, we all make mistakes, no matter what. That is path, making a mistake and then, oh, acknowledging, no, no. I made a mistake. Sometimes I have to say, oh, I'm sorry. Or excuse me. I didn't mean to blunder into you, you know. Okay? Don't give up. Yeah, come in. here in expressing a direct experience of non-separation.

[62:23]

And that sounds to me very different than awareness, just refining awareness or cultivating equanimity. So if you're not here, maybe you could say more about that. Yeah, cultivating awareness or cultivating equanimity are dualistic. It's like there's me and there's equanimity, or there's me and there's awareness. So this includes, as with striving, Striving is dropped. Cultivating awareness is dropped.

[63:29]

Along with it. Along with I. There's a sense of... So it's clumsy when we say... We attribute to Shakyamuni Buddha saying I along with... But Kezon's point is... you really have to penetrate, you have to understand I and with. You understand that there is no I and there's no with. So from that, from that realization of no I and no with, one says I together with. So there is, there is realization, you know. And the realization is no I and no with. No duality. And Suzuki Roshi sometimes says, our way is original non-dual way.

[64:33]

Our way is original non-dual way. So As soon as we speak about it, we begin to divide it up because we have conceptual language that begins to divide it up. Thank you for reminding me. Just a couple more hands. Jane Murray. Perpetually dwelling in the Tao. In the now. In the now. Oh, I thought you said Tao.

[65:41]

Now. Okay. Yeah. So for now, we'll say that enlightenment. is beyond perpetually dwelling in the now. Beyond that. Okay. It actually doesn't take very long to get to now. can't get there. Yes? You were talking about the conceptual traps of language, how to talk about this without a dualistic bit of mind.

[66:55]

It occurs to me that language is is inherently dualistic. And if we're trying to talk about anything, I'm going to be talking. If we're talking about anything, we'll be talking to somebody else, for instance, which is already dualistic. But I feel like the language itself is dualistic. But I'm wondering, is that okay? Like, we just use dualistic language to talk about, like, the heart of our practice. I like that the language is perfect. Is it okay to have a goal Was it okay for Shakyamuni to say something? I think it's, let's say that it's helpful the more the speaker knows where one's coming from.

[67:55]

So the more one knows where one's coming from, I'd say it's more helpful. And of course, it is expressed in language that's dualistic inherently and pointing to what is not. This practice that we have is non-dual practice. And we're always doing it dualistically. Almost always doing it dualistically. And refining it is helpful. Refining this practice is helpful. I think so. I advocate it. You don't have to agree, of course. I advocate refining this practice. At the same time, it's dropping it.

[69:02]

It's also dropping self. No one. There's no one doing this practice. So, to refine it in this service of no one doing this practice, it means when you notice, when you're sitting and you notice a desire, in your effort see if you can just let go of the desire and let the effort simply be pure effort moment by moment moment by moment there's no other place to be Please continue.

[70:03]

Thank you for listening to this podcast offered by the San Francisco Zen Center. Our Dharma talks are offered free of charge, and this is made possible by the donations we receive. Your financial support helps us to continue to offer the Dharma. For more information, visit sfcc.org and click giving.

[70:23]

@Transcribed_UNK
@Text_v005
@Score_91.85