This podcast is offered by the San Francisco Zen Center on the web at www.sfzc.org. Our public programs are made possible by donations from people like you. Before we do anything else, I'd like to invite you to simply just stop and notice what it feels like to be sitting here right now. You might feel how your body contacts your cushion or your chair. Maybe you can feel yourself breathing. Maybe you can even feel your heartbeat.

[01:01]

You may notice thoughts coming and going, different sensations. Maybe sounds. Maybe you can sense everyone here, everyone's presence and energy in this room. What does it feel like to be alive right now? also like to invite you to consider what brings you here today. How did you get here?

[02:14]

How did we get here? It may come in the form of words, a story, or maybe a feeling, or maybe a I have no idea. But somehow we're all here in this room. Somehow this room exists, came into being. Earlier this month, I had the opportunity to take a trip to China, where I had never been before. And I was asked to go for work, and it so happened that the place that I was asked to go was to Shanghai.

[03:17]

And I thought, well, if I'm going to China, maybe there's some Zen temples I should go visit. And as it turned out, the area around Shanghai, the sort of southeast part of China, is the area where monks from Japan in the 13th century went to China to find the Dharma and bring it back to Japan. So as it turned out, I was able to actually go to some of these temples before I was doing work in China. And then I started thinking about this. And part of the reason I was going to Shanghai There were a number of things I was going to be teaching, but one of the fundamental things I was being asked to teach to young Chinese people in Shanghai was how to meditate and how to be mindful and how to bring some of these fundamental practices into their daily life. And I thought, how did this happen? You know, how did this happen?

[04:21]

That 800 years ago, about 800 years ago, a monk named Dogen, Many people have heard of Dogen. Doehei Dogen, he lived from 1200 to 1253, and he's considered the founder of Soto Zen in Japan. This is the type of family style of Zen that we practice here. So about 800 years ago, he made a pilgrimage to China in search of the true Dharma and met his teacher and came back with a mission, a deep heart mission of how do I bring this out into Japan? And then somehow, however many hundreds of years later, someone from America is going back to perhaps remind people in China, oh yeah, this came from here. There's meditation happening. So I started wondering a little bit more about this story. And it's the story of Dogen and the story of his teacher, but it's also our story.

[05:23]

Our story, and when I say our story, I mean completely everyone in this room. Whether you've been practicing for 30 years or you were just wandering by and wanted to step in, there's something that brought us all here. And in a very real way, we would not be here except for these rather extraordinary events that happened a long time ago. So in a way, it's our family history that I wanted to explore a little bit today. And when I think about Dogen, he looms rather large as this very important historical figure from a very long time ago. But as I was actually going to the actual places where these people lived, something kind of magical started happening. They actually started to become kind of real people, real people who actually lived a long time ago. So as we think about Dogen,

[06:25]

maybe we can think of him not as somebody from a long time ago who was a famous historical figure, but actually just a young boy growing into a young man with something very deep in his heart that he seemed to be very good at being true to, very good at listening to. And I do believe that each of us has this voice internally. And sometimes it's louder than other times. Sometimes there's a blossoming. Sometimes we have the grace to not be too busy and we can actually stop and hear it. And sometimes we're even able to turn towards it. And my experience has been that when we're able to do that, we receive a lot of help and encouragement. So... to something about Dogen.

[07:25]

So you may know some of these things. But there's something about stories, family stories. You can think about grandfathers or grandmothers or aunts. You've probably heard your family stories more than once. This is the nature of family stories, that we tell them over and over. And in the telling of them, we're actually creating and recreating ourselves. So Dogen was born in Kyoto in Japan to an aristocratic family. And when he was two, his father died. And when he was seven or eight, his mother died. And it's said that his mother actually wanted him to become a monk. And it's also said that as that young boy at her funeral, watching the incense wafting up, that he had a deep sense of impermanence. Sometimes when tragedies strike, when there's great loss, there's a hidden gift in that. Whether we are older or very young, that we see something about the nature of life that intellectually we may understand, but we don't quite get.

[08:38]

But when it hits us at that deep level, it moves us, it changes us. So something opened there, perhaps, even when he was seven or eight. But then he went to be with an uncle, and this uncle had plans for him. The uncle wanted an administrative heir. He wanted Dogen to take over his responsibilities, and so he was cultivating him this way. But he had something inside that said, I'm not sure this is really for me. And at the age of 12, he actually ran away. He was supposed to have a big ceremony where he was going to take on all these responsibilities. Instead, he left in the night, went to another uncle on his mother's side, who was a monk, and said, please let me be a monk. And the uncle was very surprised, but he could feel this sincerity. So I think we can never underestimate the power of sincerity.

[09:41]

If you approach something with your full heart, actually what, how people will respond. So he became a monk on Mount Hie in Japan, a Tiantai temple, and he was going along just fine, except there was a question. There was a question that he had. He was taught that all things are Buddha Dharma. Everything is perfect and original in its nature already. There's a way that we're already perfect. Things are already just as they should be in a way. yet why do we have to practice if that's the case? And nobody could answer that for him. So he had this deep questioning. So eventually he comes down from the mountain and he goes to a temple called Kenenji in Kyoto because the person who had founded it actually had gone off to Japan himself and had studied with Rensai masters and had come back. So he comes down, and there he meets really his first real teacher named Miozen.

[10:44]

And they study together for quite a while. But Dogen still has this question, and he starts reading these texts from China from a long time ago. So if you can imagine him, this sort of young man in his early 20s, still very earnest, and he's really putting his whole heart into it. He's found a teacher, but he's reading these texts, but he looks around and he doesn't quite see it. And also Japan is very turbulent at this time. There are a lot of wars and famine, things are going on. And he talks to Miozen and he says, you know, I think we should go to China. And Miozen agrees. And this area around Shanghai that I happened to get to go to, at that time was really a whole center of Chinese culture. There had been wars up in the north and the capital had moved down to a city called Hangzhou. And so this was full of Chinese literature, culture, poetry, and lots and lots of temples, Buddhist temples. So it was really like going from kind of a backwater to like the center of culture.

[11:47]

And so they're getting ready to go. And then Miozen gets some news, very important news. He says that his teacher is dying. Miozen's teacher is dying. And he says, please come to me and be with me before I die. And then you can go to China. So put off your trip and then you can go. And Miozen doesn't know what to do. And so he calls all the monks together and says, what should I do? Should we go to China or should we put it off according to this request? And all of the monks are very reasonable. And all of the monks say, well, you should do as your teacher suggests and you should put off your trip and then go after that. And there's one voice that says, I have a different opinion. And it's the young monk, Dogen, and he says, if you feel satisfied with your understanding of Buddha Dharma, as it is now, then you should go to China.

[12:52]

That's all he says. And then Myozen considers this. And he comes back and he brings all the monks together. And he says, I thought about this. And actually, even though I want to honor my teacher's wish, I can't really help him. And I feel like the best way to honor him is to go to China. That's how I can help the most people, including him. And so they decided to go to China. And way back also when Dogen's uncle really wanted him to take on his administrative duties like he was supposed to. He also wrote to his uncle and said, Uncle, this is how I feel like I am most filial to you. This is how I can most honor you, is actually by doing this, being beneficial to most people. We might be able to think about our own lives at some point.

[13:57]

where there was something we were supposed to do, or some parental or other figure really expected us to do a certain thing, and we might have had a different thought. And how did we work with that? What happened? I know when I first experienced monastic practice, I kind of stumbled into it. I was in my 20s, and I was living in Thailand. Not living in Thailand, but traveling through Thailand. And it was the very end of my trip, a several-month trip, and I was all ready to go home. Actually, I'd been away for a year or two. And it was time to go home. And then suddenly, I stumbled into this monastery. And it was so compelling what was happening there. And they had a month-long program, but I just had a very short period of time. And I was trying to decide.

[14:58]

I really felt this heart calling, like, this is important. But my parents were very excited that I was about to come home. And I remember having this interview with someone who was practicing there. He'd been there a little bit longer than I had. And I was telling him this. I said, I really want to stay, but my parents. And he said... just understand that you're doing this practice for them too. And something landed there. Like, even if they didn't understand that, I knew that was true. That was true on a deep level. That there was a way that I needed to listen to that. And so I did actually call them up and had to tell them I'm not coming home and had to change multiple international plane tickets and it was a big hassle And it turned out to be a life-changing experience. And I probably wouldn't be here right now if I hadn't done that.

[16:02]

So we never know. We never know. Another opportunity was in Kathmandu, Nepal, and I had to go get my visa to go to another country. And just as I was headed that direction, a nun, American nun, but in that tradition, started walking with me and talking with me, and she invited me to walk with her to her monastery. But no, I was way too busy. I had other things to do. And so I didn't take that walk with her. But if I had, it might have taken a different course. I don't know. So can we listen? Can we listen to these moments? So Dogen spoke up, and they go to China. And then there are different important encounters. Important encounters. I feel like we have all kinds of guides in our life or potential for guides. And can we simply open to listen to them?

[17:04]

Sometimes the encounters are very short or unexpected. Even though the trip wasn't that far, from Japan across the sea to China. At that time, it was quite arduous. So you really were taking your life in your own hands to get on a boat and go across, but they make it. And Dogen doesn't seem to have all the correct paperwork. So Nyozen goes on to a temple, but Dogen actually has to stay on the boat for another three months. So he's hanging out. And if you can remember what it's like not to have internet, It's really hard. Just an aside, I was talking with some people the other day, and I was saying, it's really good to go away and be totally wireless for at least a day, like a day a week. And I said, we used to be able to do that, remember? And she looked at me and she said, the last time I didn't have some kind of device, I was three years old. And I thought, wow, wow.

[18:09]

Anyhow, he's on the boat. There's no internet. So you're trying to figure out, all right, I've come all this way, and I've kind of heard something about these different monasteries, things like this. But it takes a little time to kind of check out the situation. Who's who? Where do I go? So he's learning the language. He's learning all these things. But probably the days are pretty long, too. And a monk comes from a nearby monastery. And it turns out he's the tenzo, he's the head cook, and he's come to buy Japanese mushrooms. And Dogen is delighted that he's come and is quite interested in him and really encourages him, you know, please, please stay. You know, let me give you a meal, please stay. I really want to talk to you and learn more about what's happening. Can't you stay the night? And he says, oh, no, no, no, I have to go back. He said, well, how far is it? He said, 12 miles. So he's come 12 miles.

[19:11]

He's buying the mushrooms. He's going to go another 12 miles back. And he said, no, please, please stay. Why can't you stay? And he said, well, you know, the meal is tomorrow. I have to be there to supervise it. Otherwise, that wouldn't be good. It's my responsibility. You know, and besides, I haven't asked permission to be out from the monastery. So Dogen's... trying to process this. And then he asks, you know, but you're quite senior. Why do you bother? Why do you bother being a cook? Can't you just devote yourself to zazen and let other people do that kind of dirty work, in a sense? And the Tenzo laughed, he says laughed a lot, and said, good man from a foreign country, you do not yet understand practice or know the meaning of the words of ancient masters. He says, if you don't understand, actually come visit me at my monastery. So Dogen's starting to think, what is this guy up to? And eventually, eventually he does get to go onto land, and he goes to this monastery, Tiantong Monastery, where his teacher Miozin is currently.

[20:22]

And there's a Renzi abbot who's teaching there, and so he's learning. And then he meets another tenzo, more mushrooms. Except this tenzo is actually drying the mushrooms. And Dogen sees him out there. He's actually pretty old. He's kind of leaning on a staff and doesn't look that strong. And it's a really hot day and the sun is beating down and he's drying the mushrooms. And Dogen says, why are you out here in the sun? Why are you drying these mushrooms? Can't you get someone else to do this? And he says, but other people aren't me. This is my work. He says, well, can't you do it some other time? He says, well, when else can I do it but now? And again, Dogen starts thinking, this is a different kind of practice. It's a different kind of practice than he had experienced in Japan and probably a very different kind of practice than he thought he was going to find.

[21:23]

But this question is still very alive for us. What is the work of What is the work that only we can do? And as they say, if not now, when? Is the work of this lifetime drying mushrooms? Is drying mushrooms more than drying mushrooms? Whatever work it is that we're doing, Are we really doing it? Are we really here for our life? Or is practice, oh, something I'll get to over there sometime when I get to Green Gulch in a month or two. So he goes to Tiantang, and he studies for a while, but he's still not satisfied.

[22:47]

And then he starts wandering throughout China. So he goes to this temple, this temple, this temple, and this temple. And after all of this effort to leave Japan, get across the ocean, get there, he's had these sort of interesting encounters with the Tenzos, but by and large, he's not really finding what he thought he was coming to find. He's starting to feel somewhat disillusioned. He's actually thinking, you know, maybe I should just go back to Japan. And then he has an encounter. In the story, it says that he meets an old man. And the old man says, oh, there's a new teacher at Tiantong. The old teacher died. There's a new teacher named Rujing. You should really go study with him. And as it turns out, he's of a different school. So he's not a Renzi teacher.

[23:49]

He's at Cao Dong, Soto, just sitting, quiet illumination school. He's a hurry back, young man. And so it's said that he actually makes his way back to Tiantong. This is an interesting moment for us. It's part of the hero's journey, too. You know, the hero sets out from home, has a quest, meets many hardships, almost gives up, and then there's a guide, and then finds his way. So he comes back, and it's said that it was quite, well, he writes him a letter first. The letter says, I actually got to go to Tian Tong. I'll tell you that. He says,

[25:04]

He goes on. He says, now I have accompanied monk Myozen to the flourishing kingdom of Song, China. After a voyage of many miles, during which I entrusted my phantom body to the billowing waves, I have finally arrived and have entered your dharma assembly. This is the fortunate result of my wholesome roots from the past. And he says, great, compassionate teacher, even though I am only a humble person from a remote country, I am asking permission to be a room-entering student, able to come to ask questions freely and informally. Impermanent and swift, birth and death is the issue of utmost urgency. Time does not wait for us. Once a moment is gone, it will never come back again, and we're bound to be full of regret. So he has this deep relationship with his teacher.

[26:23]

They do meet. Apparently it's a very powerful meeting. And also Myo Zen, his teacher that he came with, dies. And so Dogen is there, and he continues to study. And it's interesting that there's some alchemy. There's some alchemy that happens in that connection of teacher and student that's different... from just practice reading on our own or practicing on our own. There's some way there's a kind of intimacy. Something happens. Xing also wrote that... He said, both the bower and the bowed to are empty and serene by nature, and the way flows freely between them. How wondrous. So when we meet each other, whether it's teacher, student, student, teacher... there's something completely right and harmonious in that.

[27:27]

So on my trip, I first went actually to the place where Rujing's tomb is, where he's buried, and he died a couple of years after Dogen had left, or I'm not sure of the exact timing, but after Dogen had left to go back to Japan, Rujing died. And Rujing himself left home at 19 to become a monk and ended up becoming an abbot of four different monasteries. So I went to the monastery where he had been abbot a couple of times and where his tomb is. And I had a guide who spoke Mandarin, which was a good thing because nobody else was speaking English anywhere near. And we went in and the actual... was in a part that was not usually open to the public. It was sort of towards the back of the monastery. And we were looking around, and my guide kept asking, can we go there? Can we go find this place? And every person we asked said, no, no, it's not open.

[28:38]

I don't have responsibility. I don't have the responsibility to be able to, or the authority, rather. I don't have the authority to let you back there. But she was quite persistent, and she kept asking. And all the monks were at lunch. And then finally, finally a monk comes out, a really very upright monk, and left his lunch early to come let us into this back place behind the monastery. Somehow walking through the door, through the back of this temple, She's been there a very, very long time, and going up the stairs, through the gate, and then a kind of simple, simple stone monument. Something happened to me. That just being there, suddenly these people became real. Suddenly I could really feel, oh, this was a person in this place.

[29:45]

And this other person actually came, and they somehow met. And so the next day, we were able to go to the Tiantang Monastery, which is where Dogen came back to, to meet Rujing. And it's a beautiful monastery, and it's about an hour from the nearest city, so it's surrounded by hills, very quiet. And there's a lovely path that goes all the way up. And now they have a shuttle bus, if you want to take a shuttle bus, which we did not take. You can actually walk this path with the pine trees. There are three gates to go through. And then getting there to be in the place where these people met. Something happened that's directly affecting us right now. For me, that's the link. Something happened there 800 years ago, so we're here today. And there's a certain place where it's said was the hall where he, they say, dropped off body and mind or realized the way or realized his doubts or his doubts were relieved.

[30:55]

And to be able to just sit in that place. And the buildings are different, but the hills remember. The hills remember. It would have been the same hills that they looked out and that they saw holding them And then as I was walking back down through the different gates, coming out, imagining this person, this young man, Dogen, with this very strong responsibility, he's talked about a burden on his shoulders, to go out to Japan to spread this. So imagining him as he walks down this path and the view that he would see before he goes back to Japan. And then eventually I make my way back to Shanghai, which is a different place than these hill, mountain monasteries.

[32:13]

Actually, Tiantang, it's said it has a history that goes back to the fourth century. I mean, this has been going on for a really long time. So I go to Shanghai. So again, just thinking of this cycle of somehow 800 years ago this young man, Dogen, listened to his heart. And there are many young people who come to Zen, too. And whether we're young or not so young, how do we listen to our heart? He really, really, really listened to his heart. And then he went and he met his teacher, and he came back. And he started, had various difficulties, but started a school, started teaching, and then... Many, many, many generations later, there's a monk named Shunyu Suzuki Roshi, a Zen priest. And as a young man, he also has a dream to go somewhere.

[33:14]

And he has a dream to go to America. And his teacher does not seem to think it's a very good idea. And so he has to put that dream on a shelf. But eventually, there's an opportunity. And that dream is still alive. And he's invited to come. a city called San Francisco in 1956. And eventually, these temples are created. And then 58 years later, I, as one of thousands of beneficiaries of his teaching, somehow find my way back in China, talking about some of the same things that he taught over here to teach back over there. what are we doing here? How is this? Who are we? What is going on? What is going on here? And of course, this is just a tiny, tiny piece of an incomprehensible story.

[34:20]

But all we can do is tell these stories to help us know who we are, to help us listen. Where is your heart right now? What brings you here? What brings us here? What happens next? Dogen wrote a lot, a lot of beautiful, confusing, marvelous, exasperating prose about his understanding that people come back to over and over and over again.

[35:41]

But it almost got lost. I'm going to read part of a poem by a monk named Rokan. who lived in 1758 to 1831. And he's talking about sitting in his hut a somber evening around midnight and starting to read Ehe Dogen. And then he reflects on how important his record, his writings have been to him over the years. And then he says, now when I take the record of Ehe Dogen and examine it, the tone does not harmonize well with usual beliefs. Nobody has asked whether it is a jewel or a pebble. For 500 years it's been covered with dust, just because no one has had an eye for recognizing Dharma. For whom was all his eloquence expounded? Longing for ancient times and grieving for the present,

[36:48]

My heart is exhausted. One evening, sitting by the lamp, my tears wouldn't stop and soaked into the records of the ancient Buddha, Ehe. In the morning, the old man next door came to my thatched hut. He asked me why the book was damp. I wanted to speak but didn't as I was deeply embarrassed. My mind deeply distressed. It was impossible to give an explanation. I dropped my head for a while. then found some words. Last night's rain leaked in and drenched my bookcase. So the other thing that happened when I was standing there in front of Ruijing's tomb and I had this feeling of, oh yeah, these are real people. These are real people. Was that, again, the awe of the miraculousness of how did all this happen and how did all this survive? And how do we take care of it?

[37:50]

How do we take care of it? People have taken care of these teachings generation after generation after generation, and not just the teachings, but the actual practice. And so when I go and I teach fundamentals of practice in a very different situation, like a high-rise in Shanghai, and teaching one way, perhaps a skillful means, And I think that's very important. But how do we take care of this family history, you know, this family story, this family practice, so that there is a place to come and to sit and to hear about people a long time ago who maybe weren't really so long ago when we look into our hearts? whatever brought us all here today, I'm very happy that we are here.

[39:00]

And I wish everyone the deepest support in following your heart, whatever that may look like. Thank you. Thank you for listening to this podcast offered by the San Francisco Zen Center. Our programs are made possible by the donations we receive. Please help us to continue to realize and actualize the practice of giving by offering your financial support. For more information, visit sfcc.org and click Giving. May we fully enjoy the Dharma.

[39:43]

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