On Race

00:00
00:00
Audio loading...

Welcome! You can log in or create an account to save favorites, edit keywords, transcripts, and more.

This talk will not appear in the main Search results:
Unlisted
Serial: 
SF-03568
Description: 

Sesshin 3 Day 7

Photos: 
Auto-Generated Transcript

and
today's the to the advantages word and be a long time before machine is over
hmm
maybe an hour to have
anyway
oh yeah
the appreciated grizzlies tribune
that to me yesterday and today
the front of your seat today
no and and i'm lesley going the very young
forthright with me
and
so that's one reason why we've been able to get along pretty well but she always point out things show he pointed out things to me the number one
you know what you said that it wasn't really in what you said and i mean it wasn't really right from true or he got the wrong story or simply arabia and that so
i know this she's already been honored to be that to be help
right
and

hmm
where we've been through quite alone together over long period of time and
so
no
i think that she the one person who is
been the most stable
and
but person at tassajara such a long time and the wonderful thing is her ability to
take any position
ah she'd be the tanto should be the director should be the treasurer shall be
try and people who were around
where can the kitchen or she has two
do whatever she needs to be done and not and that and that in a hierarchical order
so
i'm on this flexibility
it's really been a wonderful should be the a good example i think that everyone
i flexibility and
i never really heard to complain about anything
so
i my to
and
as every day something new comes up
and
ah
the new things to explore and talk about it
and
it's really hard to take care of all that
the things that that then i think would people would like to bit to have addressed and also
insights that i v from and i'm talking to people
one subject i think that
is i'm interested people is what we call racism
i don't know if i call it racism maybe oh that's right name
imf i don't like to at all that
yeah i think of it more as
levels of
power
levels of
a distinction
we take the used labels and then the labels create some kind of meeting
ah but
if we don't use labels it makes it easier to actually look at what the problems are
seriously use a label
ah creates a problem
then we started talking about the label instead into thing in itself
the there's a name for this and buddhism
i'm trying to think of where it is
if the assigned listener
fine timelessness is one of the add power
am
what is it
freedoms in buddhism
fine listeners means
not being caught by signs
a sign is racism
a sign is a word or a designation that stands for something
to wish lists and sign live
ah it's
seeing you know
and as soon as we named something is we it's very convenient name things that we need to do that
and a dualistic level bad
when we assign names the thing to things then we get caught by thinking that the thing is the same as the sign
and then we conveniently don't have to think or deal with the thing anymore
we had to deal with sign and we have these great arguments
over signs and we never get to the real meaning of things or it keeps us from getting to the real meaning of things
showing the endless arguments and endless speculation
so when we use the word racism
ah it stops us from actually dealing with the real problem
and
hi

and we wonder what mike how can we never solve this problem
as much as we want to solve this problem how can we never solved that problem how can we never can really did get anywhere really with his problem you know we have these seminars and meetings and talking and but why do we never get anywhere
well i don't know if we can ever get anywhere and i'm going to continue
this particular subject unless you want me to
i have some my own signs for maximum my own ideas about why we never get anywhere

so share some of those ideas with you

and know when we say wig
coco is we to begin with
yeah no is
understanding the people have that zen center is made up of
white anglo-saxon
the middle class people
but and i think that that there's some truth to that but that's not i don't think that that's
that's another
a signature another sign
ah
i don't think that death
what do i just just a population of dead center i think that the pub if we started looking at everyone's background in zen center every single person and every single person told a story about what their background of their family
life was or where they where they came from and
the history of the other family you'd find fitch a variety varied story varied stories that will be totally surprising to everyone
and they get people from wealthy background people from middle class background people from poor backgrounds
there are people who seem to be from the white race this people who seem to be from asian races or dark races vivid
but does it is obvious
ha
the subtle makeup of
people's background is
largely undisturbed nibble
know we know that there's only one race and that's the human race and then there are variants and at one race

to me the most interesting thing yeah yeah with people in
the variety of racial characteristics of everyone
whenever i look at somebody whenever i meet somebody who wouldn't i don't care who it is and look at people all the time anybody i look at i always try to figure out what racial characteristics
when racial variant characteristics this person has that's an interesting thing about a person to be i just every single person i meet as i think about that
the background i can i remember one time when i was
in my twenties and i was experimenting with
marijuana and stuff like that released easter's do all kinds of things like
no i mean like sniff nasal later
i don't like the
why didn't think we do with sniff either
and i was with my friends and when you sniff either it's like gosh
and then and this big hammer they go to bomb bomb bomb in your head
and then you come down
and when you come down that's the high
and what i would come down i looked at my elected people and i'm looking at my one friend and i can see in his face the whole history
going back generations and generations of grandfathers and grandmothers and aunts and of
plug the hole makeup of of of how this person
came to be this person and how does specially made up of all if
can contributions from way way back there were interesting thing i ever saw and
having seen that i
they can still do that
maybe that is clearly but i can still see that people and i always look she it
sometimes i look at the male and female side and i think this woman what is the male side of this woman's make up
going back generations and if i see if a man what is the female side and this person's make up going back generations
so
great variety to meet a variety of
the characteristics of people is the most interesting thing
so
and and when i see people from different countries and meet people from from different backgrounds that are so distant from my own it's always the most interesting thing i don't know why we ah
are afraid of that i think well we should be doing is celebrating the variety
celebrating the variety of
ha
differences
well that's one aspect that's my personal aspect my personal feeling
one of the reasons i think
that we never get anywhere in amalgamating are accepting the differences is because there are levels of power in society
and it seemed like
now
white people
photos big
have a certain power through
education and knowledge and wealth
and so this is the
societal level that has the most
cloud the most power
and
in order for
the asian of darker races to be a aspects of rage to become a part of share that power
if ah
very difficult so when we look at an individual
this power elite says well you can be part of our you can be part of our culture
now if you look at that you can be part of our culture it means that this our culture is superior to year and culture
and in order for you and it's okay for you to are inferior to be part of our superior culture
so that means if i am down here and the superior culture is up there
that makes me
ah
feel like a lesser value
because i have to come up to your culture
you can come up
as an individual but your
raised or your
the people who are you
part of the racial makeup
can't do that but you can do that
so an order for you to come back
tennis i'm fairly so called superior level you have to leave behind your own racial
base
so and then it's a kind of you have to be somewhat disloyal maybe feeling disloyal loyal to your
racial base in order to
be accepted into
the so called higher ranks
so who wants to do that
that means
i'm always inferior anyway
because can you don't accept my background and you the accept me
it's not there's something untrue about it
you know and i've been dealing with japanese soto shoe for many many years and for the sodo shown to accept us as equals
if
almost impassable
almost impossible because
the photos show makes overtures to have at for acceptance
and it looks like and three they going somewhere
but they always take the superior position
and were in the inferior position
because they're accepting us
so being in the inferior position
mean that we have to do what they say even though they say we don't
no we don't want to control you
we don't wanna do that but they can't help it because
they actually helped their in a superior position unconsciously consciously or unconsciously
so we get to a certain point where
it looks like we are accepted by damage equals but they always throw something in the way because we will never be japanese
that's the last holdout when is much as they would wander at will accepted were not japanese
turns out that that little thing that you know a little tail but that makes it never will it'll never work which is okay because we didn't need to be japanese so it doesn't work we don't feel inferior
because we don't need that
we needed it we would feel inferior
if even if now so there's always this
a feeling of yes but
this thing illegal night

yeah we've been a yes but so
it's always a problem
even though
you know we say well
we don't feel racist we don't feel that they don't think that when we we feel accepting and inclusive of people you know and it's true that mostly
the inquisitor of
other
that added a bit
what are they have who's who is it that feeling
who issue that's been accepting of other
ha ha
everyone
except that
and it never works
rarely works

henderson permanent keep it keeps being elusive
am
when it's it's always had someone has to come up
come up
we never can go down
and if we go down
to that means it
i'm
ha
here
we lose the feeling of superiority
so then the question is well
is your
ah
no
this
it is your thing better than ours
who's thing is the best
so
that makes create
a problem how give you an example i have had a student a black fin for women who'd been my students for thirty years
and
ah i learned from her an awful lot
when i first saw her i've done this is a very powerful person
and
she was always a very powerful person
ah and
make hating the whites but baking effort she wanted to study then
for ten years she didn't know anybody's name
because
our white people look the same
where interesting
and she didn't have recorded ideas about people but it will all fantasy
and
we were very close
we really loved each other and we still do
but
as much as she would try to your clothes she couldn't do it because what so much better about your stuff than our stuff
if i become like a white person if i join your white society
i'm only doing it to gain some prestige or something because actually are right are my race it is more interesting and enjoyable than the white race
but you think that year is is the one that everyone should look up to
white people are a stiff so when they can't jump right
the up
the who wants to come to associate with white people because they show up and an intellectual and you know they're not there's no joy there
true
so
ha
as much as she tried to to make that effort made that be an impossible also she felt that to leave
i'm up
dish her black rage and joined the white race
what's tim betrayed her route
to be trail
i i'm up here with the white and new guy just sit down dinner
but coming up coming up that is coming we all think the coming up it's a good idea but i don't share that coming up is a good idea
i mean what's really so good about the white rage you know that people should want to come up to it
what's the big problem
and to be the token black and ah
white society needed doing it because you need a black person you know you show off
i'm not going to be your black
token black person and you're going to show off
the like it we have a black person in our saga
hmm
but niceic for someone has to be the token
someone has to have the guts to do that
that other people will feel looking to
when the are very deep
oh
big emotional problems
but i think we should just celebrate everybody's diversity
so that were all the same level it's not like people have to come up to the white society or whites have to conduct can turn down to
black society
just
on a horizontal level
i know it them what we like and hard to do but
just
to celebrate diversity
so we can really you know enjoy it
how many you know
people who come from so called minorities are able to actually express themselves
the way that they feel comfortable
not from any
what i do think that it people make an effort the other point is that you the point that i really
when to make is that there's also reverse racism i don't want to use that word but i will
because
i hate you i guide
translated racism the other in reverse
so
and this person is black student of mine said
you know it's your problem
the fall
yeah problem to solve
but it's not it's everybody's problem to solve it's like not taking responsibility even though you in the low position someone else in the high position and well we they were the person that high position that's their problem to solve but
even though i hear in a perfect in the law and then the bottom position if you are a problem to solve as well
it's unless both sides are both constituents make the same effort and won't work
who took the person who feels it there
locked out because the race has to make the same effort as the person who is in their dominant position
otherwise it can't work
everybody has to lay down their resentments
hope we had another resentment lay down their prejudice should they down their ideas
their fears
i'm just participate together
and not accuse each other or something
an art project on each other
he's trying to see everything just clearly
have a penny the ground
i'm
richard
was there
topic
what made me think of it well what brought it about i think i think about it a lot but what brought it to mind was when i was getting my talk to other day
and i shared them are talking about it
japanese cab drivers
can like climbers
i have to say that i think japanese farmers are the the salt of the earth
no one no clamour the world can come up to the japanese farmer
true but japanese farmers also drive taxis to and the side
to supplement their income
just because a good farmers doesn't make them wealthy so
i used i talked about japanese farmers
and and taxi driver looked at the taxi drivers only like to have a swimmers because to me they did
the i couldn't tell when the power from the other because they didn't know them
but i wouldn't talking about making a point a pack
japanese taxi driver doesn't paint making a point about my confusion
so but i think it could have been taken as a racial slur or something but i didn't let me it that way at all
so
that can burn up for me
but also it's it's been something is going on
the other people have been talking about and a different way
lately
the both those things coming together
thank you
ah
what it be ethical were discussion
you now privilege that way to talk about grey white lilies
aren't happy birthday
why
however helping why am i don't go on
and you know
numbers shot education level and for how much better
or how much crusher com
the
it all
so
talk about to fall back on the other where i think that
freshly
i think that it's a race with them
the word that ah
effective
and i think that time
when when you're talking about some people of color like my joy when i make them trader interesting to think about what it might be a trader like
do what it might mean for trying to look at october
about it
is there a way that i live where i'm not trade offer my wife
known as don't i don't think that on
that the prejudice inherent in
you know the reverse situation is necessarily affected
get the person that has the privilege based on their race and they hate patient big family they have power over a month
if they become rate of survival
which is different but i think it's totally different politic so i think really dangerous effects lot of reaper
not great because it come on a false ref for white people hold on the oh well you know black think the same about me as i think about them
recalling work
yeah yeah yeah
that can be construed daily and there are no
all kinds of varying variations and that
description
but in the way and i'm talking about it i don't think i'm talking about it in that sense
no i'm talking about it is in the sense of
hum well i think you know what the i'm talking about it by
the fact that he have the way
like resentment
basically and the feeling of oppression and
ah
ha frustration and
i'm not saying that it's not
ha

just do it you know
there is justification for it
well
i can just a net the what comes up for people and out of frustration and resentment and powerlessness
hello
and it's on
part of the reason why
it's so difficult to bring the factions together
the standard the way of bringing bringing things together
i agree with that for by their side catherine work on a solution but i know the forgot that you weren't affected
my wouldn't friend
give them ah
that is largely a question of nail their male privilege because they be that debut in fact all the time and so it's not a question of whether or not they have to work harder i thought
when the so i would wonder whether or not there anything that black people to do differently than we think much different than one point
our
i never know
you know what you talking about in in in a big picture
i had generalities
that's one thing but when we're talking about it you know in this kind of context i think it's different you like doing
yeah like in like in the place like jenson or where were actually trying to make some
trying to make some difference make an effort to make different much as you know i'm trying to hold onto power not doing that were not what we're trying to find out trying to understand
how to make
things come together
but looking at what jimmy the
problems are the big problems or and doing it and and to look at it
from not just one side
because if we say
well you know it
if if we minimize the fact that
and felt this resentment
and that's and
the reverse discrimination if we if we ignore that they were doing something that very powerful
and i am
who it we don't like that idea
weekend from that look at it for clearly
but
ha
and then we think will we go back to think about all our responsibility
we need to take full responsibility but everyone has taken full responsibility can't work anyway
richard
my daughter
berkeley

you have to talk loud terbaik credit our life together recorded
and i overheard you thought your back with
i can do my homework and the i'd say
a curvy
why are you doing that as a white thing yeah
well as i aren't that i like dot
the
wow yep
yeah
how they will big problem and we're not going to solve it tonight
i appreciate when everybody should
hum
one more joe
a lime in it there's offered in found book she wrote a book called from market data that for find sociology to offer african american in a good practitioner and echoed a lot of what you said about entered the a dream and having to deal with it
coming up
well it you
the whole thing galena wow well thought out
and put
thanks was wondering about that
but there
before the whole idea of coming up and therefore the white type be about all the other thirty eight
wait a little bit more about whether or not you're saying that get coming
part of our to a house cottage at that we all share is kind of collective idea or yeah
i don't really understand
what you're saying by making me
that you know the upper right side of the exact come up
i mean who is again you think
huh
huh
huh
huh
huh
huh
huh
huh
huh
hey
well
yeah i give you an example and happening right now he's called spreading democracy around the world
that means
using
power to subjugate the world
using using false signs one of which is called democracy
as an excuse to come to dominate the world
and
create slave nations
have a nine month on and better different insidious effect for rather than living
and it was very funny
you know the recommended issue in the room there are things
wow
protective effect
i find a tenant within when rate to pack the daughter older than on the southern actually become white a black when now were doing it for asian practice and the only real minority having a rumor asia an infected and
one thing i got really interesting as i got more involved with the forefoot you know there is a pop
people are colored tonga movement going on and i thought well you know that okay because it's time for people to be a lot of practice together that is a thirteen a load correctly we had to be a person of color ago and i thought well you know how wonderful would it be for need a happy
it's going to be the minority in practice done it but there is no opportunity but i'm a psycho you can replay something like that
oh i'm not really yeah i i prayed a really do that i don't know what we can do about that invite you know the separate but equal strategy hasn't worked in that can be very well a or not there anything and i'm not sure it is a model for practice and i
take in a patented go and i've lived near a and i seem to have faith in that neighborhood
and been a lot of diversity meetings around it an aged yeah i'm not sure exactly when even the problem is that when you hear that he thought that you've fact that many times about people going to take it and not feeling well meltdown and that they even more though or minority
and gave her the night think that ramp up
very cold beyond it a welcome to more inviting
i'm not really sure that people are actually willing to look at the root cause
you know opening bell net impact is available to everyone without getting a little practice that only reflect you know
you
well
they can check oh
hum
steven
have you thought about hair
i know
hello
impact
up any time
building their garments
topic is vertical
if i in our the
at the airport
the for example the with and then current lover either fit
i locked up after decade he thought that trump and creating
the greek having a big prize after a great i e like
oh really running at the meeting
you know
the written it going
yeah everything me
it'll take a different ip to all have access to my are what it to our
he fly but as the car park
i think really important
that either interrupting anything i'm wondering the those lines patty
you know
take heart that an hour video they began acting together
and they can real men like really high
candle our the fever path to the hospital
elisa pay about dedicated active the finale
well
i painted the old take out outside get bigger
different great game
ah u s
i don't see that now
when to paper about that i can't tell you about you know what you don't see now
but am i agree that the leadership
if i have to show from example
membership has to show the them compare the interested
and this is a
an important subject
then there will be things up more
but
i've seen
you know
this going on for a long time and
i'm not interested in all the thing in emotional the
method
the trained in the past
i don't say they don't work but i'm
i think there has to be some better the main things understanding
and i'm not sure that
people yet understood the as-needed side understand very well
i really don't know the people and either side understand very well
if you want to look at side
i don't like to make a bit in terms of the signs you know that's the whole another whole thing is like we thinking in terms of your side and my side decide on that side
and and the way we think that creates to stand the
stand up
really is the way we think that makes it that way so
i don't think rare thinking have to change radically
just the way we think
the wines and thought
the language were you decide and that time there are no side
here anyway
that's a little bit of belgium before to end the practice the a briton the in the fishing

yeah