Please come here. I'm sorry I haven't prepared anything for lecture, for this lecture, so I shall be very happy if you have some questions. And so that I can say something about it. Do you have some questions? Hi.

[01:10]

Guruji, would you speak about the relationship of conditioned origination and free will in our everyday life? Is it possible to say anything about that? Conditioned love? The relationship of conditioned origination and free will, free will to determine our own actions in our daily life. Free will? I don't know. What is conditioned origination? What is it? The twelvefold chain of carnation. No. Oh, I see. And free will. The relationship of those two things.

[02:11]

That's big. Do you know twelve links of causation? Twelve links of causation. Our life originated, started from ignorance. We came out of ignorance. Excuse me, I have something in my mouth still.

[03:22]

Do you know something about it? I don't know. This world is because of ignorance. Ignorance is the origin of, not species, but the origin of being. Yeah. Why we say so is because we think we exist here with some self-nature.

[04:40]

But actually there's nothing to be called as self-nature. So that we think I am here with some self-nature is actually not right. Why we have this kind of imperfect understanding of being? Not only ourself, but also our being. Not misunderstanding, but a kind of delusion. To say something which does not really exist is delusion. We say, I from Ganga.

[06:04]

Literal translation is to see something. Sometimes we see in the sky something like a flower. But if you watch someone and see the sky, you will see some white, some image in the sky. To see something which does not really exist is Ganga, or I flower. And we actually, you know, what we see does not actually exist in that way.

[07:12]

Sensitively, you know. In the smallest particle of time we exist in this way, but next moment we change it into something else. Because we become older and older. Like in ten years you will be amazed at you when you see yourself into the mirror. Oh, this is me. I have no hair here. That cannot be me, you know. Maybe someone else. That is right, someone else. We change already into someone else.

[08:17]

But I think I am still young and I still exist here as I was. But that is not true. And so when nothing exists permanently, to see something with some idea of concrete, being is ignorance. So everything comes out of ignorance. And so the being, their being, between their reality and reality of being,

[09:40]

and their being, which we see, is originating from ignorance. So first of all we come to ignorance. And we, you know, as soon as we have from ignorance, you know, we see some activity. Some concrete being starts to act with it. So this is... And when, you know, some activity starts, we have some idea.

[10:50]

And we'll have... We'll, as soon as we have some idea, we'll have names for it. In this way, our knowledge of this world, or understanding of things, will develop. This is causation. But this... This... This...

[12:03]

This... Something which happens in this order, you know. But it explains interrelationship between our idea, many ideas, and reality. And by this kind of explanation, we'll understand how we exist here, or what kind of knowledge about our life we have. So to know, when we know this, when we understand our life in this way,

[13:06]

we will... We'll have deeper understanding of life. Before we have this kind of understanding, you know, we just think. We were born at a certain time, and we start some activity. And we start to have some experience of life, or knowledge. And we'll become older and older until we die.

[14:10]

This is usual understanding of life. But if we understand our life... If we understand our life started from ignorance, you know. And what is ignorance, and what is our life in its usual sense, then you will not be attached to our life. And our understanding of life will be quite different from the understanding we had before. This is actually...

[15:12]

Twelve weeks, if we count in this way, until sickness and death. And that is twelve links of causation. Even Buddhists, in ancient times, or when some Buddhists understood the twelve links of causation, it's the explanation of how we came to this world, and how we become old and die. But this is not perfect understanding of causation, of twelve links.

[16:16]

This is actually... Sometimes we count ten instead of twelve. Sometimes there's no need always to be twelve. It is actually the truth of interrelationship between things. As Buddha said, as A is here, as A arrives, B arrives. As A vanishes, B vanishes. This is the original teaching of Buddha, as A exists. When A arrives, B arrives. When ignorance arrives, our being arrives.

[17:22]

So, the relationship between ignorance and our being is interdependence. The truth between ignorance and some being is interdependence. We are interdependent beings. This is actual. In short, twelve links of causation should be understood like as A arrives, B arrives. As when ignorance arrives, the suffering like birth or old age or sickness and death will arise.

[18:33]

This is the real, true and better understanding of causation in twelve links. So, if you apply this teaching to your everyday life, without sticking to some idea, without perfect freedom from things, we can work on everything. That is how we apply this teaching to our everyday life. I think you may have some books about it.

[19:41]

Those teachings belong to very old teachings, like Theravada Buddhism. Early periods of Buddhist thought, you have to study. When you study history of Buddhist thought, you have to study this kind of teaching. OK? That is just one of the teachings of twelve links of causation.

[20:45]

Do you have some questions? About, maybe about this, related to this. If possible, I want you to ask some questions about this topic of twelve links. Usually, in the Japanese Zen, explanation of the twelve cause makes that it takes place over many lifetimes. Three lifetimes, at least. Would you speak about that? That is, as I said, more, I can say, creative explanation.

[21:56]

There, you know, before, many people understood it that way. But if you study the history of early Buddhism, you may find out how this teaching came to twelve links. Before twelve links, we have ten, or eight, you know. So maybe, you know, a teaching, while we suffer, like for noble truth, it is originated, that kind of teaching.

[23:08]

And more and more, that is something which we should know. Originally, Buddhist teaching is not so complicated. It was quite, quite, it was more easier to understand. But while, you know, priests started to become a priest, which is something, who is something different from layman. They studied and studied, and they made our teaching more, maybe, professional. More philosophical.

[24:13]

More philosophical. With some convincing, you know, power. But, like music, you know, if you study many music, you will understand how contemporary Japanese music became in this form. In this way, we go back to the old teaching, which was taught by Buddha. I think to study complicated philosophy is maybe good, maybe necessary. But to understand it in a more simpler way, so that we can apply it directly to our everyday life, may be more important, I think.

[25:27]

Hi. Roshi, many times when we ask you questions, and we want to know what your idea is, you tell us that you have no particular idea. And I think in one of the Sesshin lectures in San Francisco, you talked, I think it was two words in Japanese, and it was three words in English. Not always so. And I wonder if these ideas, which you talked to us about, are maybe before the arising of ignorance. When a thought arises, are we then trapped by these twelve links? And if the thought arises, but we know it's not always that way, are we possibly a little bit freer?

[26:37]

A little bit freer. But it does not mean to ignore things as we see, you know. But we must be detached from it at the same time. This is the main point of practice, why we practice. Thanks. When we moved rocks with you today, and then we talked philosophically, but these aren't always rocks. We put them in one form, but they can go in another form. I sometimes experience this difficulty of what I experience every day, and yet trying to be detached from that at the same time. Do you know what I mean? I know what you mean, but there's no special way, you know.

[27:48]

There's no secret. But it's fine, you know. We practice with you, and we practice with others. Even though you try, you cannot, you know, something which you cannot. Or it is not something which could be done by trying to do so. It is something which will come to you, or which will happen to you. So anyway, you know. The only way is to come to Tathagata.

[28:53]

Okay? Okay? That way, that is the secret. Is it possible that before one gets to a point that one can accept that nothing exists, that one can see things in a different way, so that they not only do exist, but exist much more substantially, so that one sees that there really are a platform on one's ego, on one's self? Does that kind of happen? Who is talking? I hear a voice only. Oh, I see, excuse me.

[29:58]

I became old now. Thank you. I think you understand pretty well. So if you understand that much, and practice our way, that is how you should do, how you should make progress in your practice and in your everyday life, I think. Do you have some special difficulty? No. I think that's very good, I think. Some more questions.

[30:59]

Hi. I wondered about the question of how concerned and in what way would you advise us to be in relation to the rest of the Sangha, the other people that we're practicing with. For example, suppose we're working with other people and we're talking, and one of us feels, suppose we're working with other people and we're talking, and one of us feels that we should not be talking, we should be quiet. Would you advise that person to please ask the others to be quiet? Sometimes. Sometimes. Maybe better not to, try not to, you know. But sometimes you have to, maybe. All of us are trying, you know, pretty hard.

[32:17]

So, naturally, if you live in this way, actually we are helping with each other. Anyway, let's try little by little. Would you speak about the relationship of one moment to the next moment? One moment to another moment. One moment, please. Would you speak about the relationship of one moment to the next moment? Two ways.

[33:28]

What will be the one way and what will be the other way? One, relationship. One moment after, one moment, and next moment. One answer is no relationship. And another answer is relationship. There is relationship. So, that is why I am bargaining, you know. If I have to say something, you know, I must say it in two ways. Do you know the story of Hyakujo?

[34:37]

Hyakujo. I told you, you know. Hyakujo. When Hyakujo started his temple, there was an old man who was listening to his lecture all the time. One day, after all the students left, he didn't leave. He was staying there. So Hyakujo asked him, why do you stay?

[35:43]

And that old man said, actually, I was in this temple before you came to this temple. And because I gave wrong answer to students, I changed, you know, my life changed. In next life, I became a fox. But in disguise of human being, as I am fox, I am here, right here. And Hyakujo asked, what was the mistake you made? Someone asked, you know, the old. When someone asked me, if the causation, the truth of causality, result and effect,

[36:59]

always exist in the same way. And the old man said, no, it doesn't exist. If you practice something, you will be beyond the truth of causation. So it means that there is no relationship between I in this moment and next moment. Because that answer was not right, he became a fox in his next life. And I cannot get out of the life of fox system. So if you have some, if you give me some good, perfect teaching,

[38:07]

I will be free from the karma to be a fox. So Hyakujo said, repeat the question, you know. And he repeated his question. And this time Hyakujo answered, yes, it exists. You will be the fox in next life too, because... because you are fox in this life. So next time you will be fox too. Maybe American fox or Japanese fox, I don't know. Anyway you will be fox, he said. At that moment he attained enlightenment.

[39:15]

He attained. Sometimes yes, sometimes no. So if you stick to... understanding of yes or no, there is the understanding of yes or no. There is the understanding of yes or no. That will be the wrong answer. Because reality does not, does not exist in that way.

[40:26]

Yes is right and no is right too. Or yes is not right, no is not right. Hi. Rishi, in order to feel compassion for yourself and for others, one must be detached. But to be detached would mean not to have memory of suffering. And I don't understand how you can feel compassion without remembering suffering. Yes, suffering, when we suffer, there may be two ways. Even though we say here is the same problem, yes and no, when we suffer, actually we suffer, suffering exists.

[41:43]

But suffering does not exist like, we do not suffer like usual persons suffer. Still suffering is there, here, in the same way. But how we feel about it is different. How we accept suffering is different. So it does not mean to, even though we say we should be, go beyond suffering, but it does not mean to have no suffering. We suffer, but the way we suffer is not the same. Okay, and the difference is,

[42:55]

the suffering, the other side we know, because we know, we know. We know how, why we suffer and how we suffer. When we know really why you suffer, you will know how to get out of suffering. If you know why you come to Tassahawa, you will know how to go back to San Francisco. So even though you are Tassahawa, you don't feel so bad, because you know how to go back to San Francisco.

[44:08]

But when you don't know how to go back to San Francisco, you know, the difficulty we have here may be the same, but there is a big difference between the person who knows how to go back to San Francisco and who doesn't know how to go back. This kind of difference is there. And to suffer, to help others, you know, to suffer, just for, because, just for ourselves is different. Sometimes we suffer, you know.

[45:14]

We stay someplace where there is suffering, and we suffer with it. And that's the difference. Okay? Thank you. When you were talking about the faith that our parents give us and the faith that our pastor gives us, you mentioned that at certain times in life one should have made a foundation. And I didn't understand exactly what you meant by a foundation for life,

[46:19]

or what is the foundation of. I don't remember how I explained about the foundation of life. The foundation. When your practice is right, you will make actual progress. But if your practice is wrong and continues, your practice, like you practice something else,

[47:27]

it doesn't make any progress. As a Jewish student. Because, you know, direction is quite different. Do you understand? Direction. Hi. If we're moving in this direction, then, in my opinion, are we to forget about other directions? Or are we to be here and now and just be human? Yeah. Ah. Maybe, you know, for most of us,

[48:33]

and because we are firmly rooted, you know, we have very strong habit. So to go the other way is pretty difficult. Unless you make deep effort, it is not possible to go the other way. You cannot do it. You cannot do both ways at the same time. Direction is opposite. So you cannot. If direction is similar, you can. But quite opposite. If you go this way, you cannot go that way.

[49:40]

It seems to me that, maybe my dualistic mind, but when I practice here, it eliminates right away many things from the secular world. Totally. Because the practice is very different. And the way is different. The practice is different. And so I have dropped those things. So in a sense, my world becomes different. But I get a feeling while I'm here, that we are supposed to be here for a time, to train. And then we are supposed to go back to that, to my thought, other world, where the practice is very much in opposite direction. Yes. And we can talk about that. Yeah, good question. It is a good question to me, too. You know, we should know, you know,

[50:43]

we should observe ourselves very carefully. It is not a matter of, you know, to go to San Francisco or to stay here. Even though you stay here, you have the same problem. About this kind of thing I explained already in previous lecture. To get up, you know, with people is practice. There you have very strong root of... You have strong root of opposite practice.

[51:45]

So even though you are here, there, it doesn't mean that if you are here, everything is okay. Even though you are here, there are many things to work on. Even though you are sitting, practice, you know. Of course, there is... You shouldn't say, you shouldn't make some excuse for it. Because I am sitting, I cannot practice my way. That is wrong. If you observe yourself closely, there is many things which you can do, which you can practice, which you can work, work on it.

[52:56]

My feeling is that while I am here, if I go back, say I went back to the city tomorrow, I would just encourage and continue this 12th century quotation. That my practice in the city would be good for other people as well as for myself. And I feel, this may be selfish, but I feel that my practice here in the center is for everyone. And the feeling is to want to stay here, or stay in this type of environment, maybe not here, somewhere else. And sort of be on path, well along the path, to help other people. So as you go, stay here a while, and get a little bit of light, and you go back to the city and get all covered in soot. And try to contribute to the city. It's a great difficulty, that's for me, to be here. The great difficulty, you mean,

[54:05]

is not the same difficulty I mean. You know, that difficulty is something which could be solved quite easily. If you stay here, that's all. That is not so big problem. You are wrong. Then we can get out of suffering. So maybe you can... Why we suffer?

[55:19]

Because we expect something which we shouldn't expect. And you want to gain something, but you cannot have it. You know? That is why. You think you can, you feel you can, but actually that is not possible. For most of the people, something which you think you can, is not something you cannot. If you think more, that is very true. Because, you know,

[56:27]

our life started by ignorance. So here is big truth, or big cause, inevitable truth. First of all, we should know that. And, you know, we should do something, it's our self. This is too big problem to, you know, to talk about, but it's true. Yes. War.

[57:42]

War. Yes. Spiritual people would like an end to war, and they might suffer if they expect it and don't get it. But need to say that they might in fact get it, if they work for it. War, you know, it will not be, you know, we cannot put an end to it. I don't think so. But, if we do not make any effort to put an end to it, you know, what will be happen to us? So, anyway, we should, even though it is not possible with you, knowing that it is not possible, we should try to, to keep our effort to stop it.

[58:49]

That is more Buddhist, our way. Although we know that that is not possible, we should not be discouraged by knowing it. If something is right, anyway, we should try and keep, continue to try. We keep, continue to work on it. But the usual effort of putting an end to war is, most people may think that it's possible. But in some way, you know, not by gun, but in some way war will be continued in our life.

[59:51]

I think in this way. So, if all of us try to, you know, put an end to war, even though we have, actually, some war between us, tragedy, we will not have this kind of tragedy. By fighting, some, be confident, you know. With some, be confident to win, to put an end to it, you know. Again, the cause of war,

[60:54]

you will cause war, because you think it is possible, and because you think you are completely right. That is not so. That is not always so. That you expect, that you think it is possible, is already wrong. So, you know, you shouldn't think you are completely right. But still, you should try to be right. I think this is very important point for us, right now, especially. So, people may divide it into, and fighting with each other, in the same country.

[61:58]

One may say, you know, we should not fight. We should stop war. You are wrong, completely wrong. And the other may say, you don't know, you know, what is going on in this world. We should fight. If you don't fight, we will be lost. And he thinks he is completely right. So, there is big gap between two parties. Then they have to fight again, with each other. Same thing will be repeated. So, if both of them know they are not completely right, there may be some way to help with each other.

[63:07]

Because our understanding is very nice, and rigid, and we have too much confidence in ourselves. We cannot help with each other. So, not always right is very important. Very strict teaching. Thank you. Actually, the first of the vows, of the three of our vows, we say, sentient beings are numberless. I take a vow to save them all. Now, I have two questions. One, what is there to save them from? And two, how do we go about saving them from whatever they are? Oh, that's a terrible question.

[64:21]

Well, first of all, go away. You will get started drunk. From far, you know. Why do you come here? I must ask you. Endless. To know that sentient beings are endless, numerous, innumerable, is very important. But, like,

[65:25]

the answer will be the same. The same answer. Why? We should try to stop war. So, we will, anyway, we will not be discouraged in our practice, because we have no idea of perfection or attainment. Something which should be done, should be worked for, tenable. Or else you don't feel so good. First of all, if you say, you know,

[66:32]

this is, you know, complete practice, this is perfect, then you will not have so much friends. Is that so? You may say. Japanese people do like this, you know. You know. You will find fox. Fox, you eat all night. I became fox. You know.

[67:30]

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