So we're talking about the Blue Cliff Records story number four. Mango introduces it by saying, blue sky, bright sunshine, how to tell east and west, our, H-O-U-R, our season, circumstance, The medicine depends on the illness. To let go or hold on, which is right? Please consider following the story. The story you know about Toksang coming to visit Isang's great monastery. The story is often superficially taken to represent a clash of two ways of teaching.

[01:16]

That's how R. D. M. Shaw, in the Blue Cliff Record translation that he did, looks at the story. It's a little confusing from this point of view because, if you want to look at it in this way, because the later controversy in which some people favored in a more dramatic way and some people favored in a more quietistic way in some historical situations in China and Japan, identified Soto as more quiet, distant. Rinzai as more dramatic, energetic.

[02:22]

But at this time, this is quite close to the Sixth Patriarch, all these guys lived in the 9th, 10th and 11th centuries that I've been talking about. Such a distinction wasn't so clear, and it seems that the distinction was made by later generations. Most of them. Because Toksan is our lineage, and Isang is Rinzai lineage. Actually, we have both lineages through Dōden, but some aspects of Japanese Soto school emphasize quietism for a long time. Anyway,

[03:33]

Say again, Gyoshi, you know, is the disciple of the sixth matriarch. And Nanaku, another disciple. From Nanaku comes Baso and Nakajo and Misa. And from... And from... Seigen-gyoshi comes from Sekito, who did the Sandokai. And from Sekito is Yakusan, Ungan, and Tozan. But in Sekito, Yakusan's Dharma brother is Tenno-dogo. And Tenno-dogo's disciple is Ryutan. And Ryutang's disciple is Togsang. And Togsang's disciple is Setpo and Gyanto.

[04:41]

And Setpo's disciple is Umamon. So this is a very famous lineage. And Umamon's fourth great-grandson, Great Grand Disciple is Sekito, who did the Blue Cliff... not Sekito. Is that right? Ingo and... Setsho. Setsho, who did the Blue Cliff Records. Ingo. So, bright blue sky, bright sunshine, east. How to tell east and west? Bright sky and blue sunshine means when the sun is up at noon, how can you tell east and west?

[05:57]

And east and west, you remember, when Togsang came to Isang's temple, he went from east to west and west to east and said, nothing, nothing. Now, why would he go from east to west and west to east? You can't view it as an encounter between Issan, who is head of a large temple, and the traditional rituals and practice, and Issan, and Tok-san is quite free, because this is going from east to west and west to east, and some traditional Zen

[07:03]

way. When he goes, at that point, when the story says he went from east to west and west to east, Engo comes very zen. He held a whippersnapper up to him. When Yangshan first came to see Isa, when he came to greet Isan. He was a new monk. Isan said, Do you have a teacher? He said, Do you have a teacher? But he expressed it, Do you have an owner? Do you have an owner? And he said, Yes, I have an owner. Who is your owner?

[08:12]

And he went from west to east. He walked from west to east. Actually, he probably just walked some direction. I doubt if he had a compass to figure it out. But not so difficult, because Buddhist temples were generally built on a north-south, east-west which was almost always the same, so he would know. So he did something, which the stories tell, going from West to East. So, in this kind of story, West means India, Buddhism came from India, so West means emptiness or imperturbability or great potential, something like that.

[09:16]

And East means activity or great function from Bodhidharma coming from West to the East. So West and East has this kind of meaning then. So, he comes in and says, he comes and walks from east to west, west to east and says, nothing, nothing, and leave. And Satcho says, seen right through. If you remember from a while ago, we talked quite a bit about Tozan, Ryokai, visiting Isan and asking them about the teaching of inanimate objects.

[10:51]

Do you remember this story? how do inanimate objects preach the Dharma? He tells the story and in that story Tozan is recounting, he says, although you do not hear it, do not hinder that which hears it. So after recounting this story, Tozan says to Isang, who is a fairly old man, I don't understand this Can you explain it to me?" And Tozan, his son, says, a suitable hero is hard to find. He's rare indeed. And Tozan said, please say something.

[11:53]

So Hisan raises his whisk and says, do you understand? And Tozan says, no. And Hisan says, the mouth given me by my parents will never, can never explain to you. Nissan also has a story he's talking about. Buddhist stories, Zen stories, are about Zen stories. In Zen, things are about what they're about. So this is a story about teaching, and it's about teaching.

[12:56]

Zen teaching is about teaching. So this is trying to give you some ability to understand encounters between people, between teachers, between Zen people or anybody. And not to be fooled. And this story is meant to hook you. It's meant to get you involved. What's going on? And if you can be hooked, you should be hooked. And you can struggle with it like a dog with a rag in its mouth. That's quite a good way to practice. If something can hook you, it's useful. Very useful. If nothing can hook you, it's unfortunate. Or you're blind, or not curious or something.

[14:04]

So, is Isan hooking Totsan? Is Toksan hooking Isan? How does Toksan hook Isan? How does Isan hook Toksan? So, he says, do not... He says, our season, circumstance, the medicine depends on the illness, holding on or letting go, which is right. Here he means grasping way or granting way. Grasping way is the way of emptiness. Granting way, everything is okay. Grasping is to stick to your strict practice. So in this story, Tuk San looks like grasping way, But in your own practice, are you practicing which way?

[15:13]

When your legs hurt, do you move or not? Which is grasping way and which is granting way? This is Buddha. This is not Buddha. How, in your meditation, do you stick to counting your breathing? Are you always concentrating? Or do you give up concentrating and have no observer at all? Just no observer, and anything happens. Anything happens. Which is grasping way and granting way? How do we make this kind of distinction? When do we make this kind of distinction? When is it? Which way is better to teach someone?

[16:16]

Which way is better for yourself, and which way is better to teach someone? When someone comes to you, do you say, no, this is not Buddha? You are no good, Shepa. Or do you say, yes? Very good, you're a wonderful person. Continue. Which way do you take? Which way is Tocsin taking and which way is Isan taking? And why? Do you hold on or let go? Which is the right medicine in this circumstance? Isan. Isan's disciple Kyozang, or Yangshan, named for another mountain, came to Isan and said, If a million things come to you, what would you do?

[17:25]

A million things come to you. What do you do? Cut everything off? Greet everything? What do you do? Nissan said, a yellow thing is not green. A long thing is not short. Each thing manages its own fate. Why should I bother? One day, one of Choksan's disciples, Kaku, came to see Choksan and said, Actually, I think this man was Tokson's jishya, and he said to Tokson, the great sages and saints, great sages and patriarchs of Buddhism, where have they gone?

[18:49]

You might ask the same question. These great sages or patriarchs of Buddhism, Tokson, Where have they gone? What does it mean to ask me, sitting in this session, where have they gone? He said, I don't know. And his jīṣa said to him, I was expecting an answer like a running horse and I got an answer like a crawling turtle. And Toksana looked defeated. So the next day after his bath, Toksana came to his room and the jīṣa brought tea. And Toksana patted him, how's the koan you were working on yesterday?

[19:53]

And the Jishas said, ah, today your Zen is better. And Tokson looked defeated. And you know the story, I think we talked about it, about Tokson and Seppo and Ganto and the bulls? Well, it's going to take a minute to tell you. Toksana is quite old at this time, maybe 80 years old, and Asepo is about 41, and Ganto is around 35. And Ganto is, you know, it's one of these examples where Ganto and Tokson are rather like one teacher. They're quite good, they understand each other well, and they practice together, you know, for many years. Tokson being the disciple, Ganto being the disciple, and Tokson being the abbot, but actually they are kind of one abbot, one teacher, playing different roles, and together they cooperate.

[21:09]

This story is a rather interesting example. Seppo became, of course, one of the greatest Zen masters of all time, and one of Suzuki Ueshi's favorites with Baso. Seppo had long struggled with practice. He lived a very long time. Anyway, Tokusan came down from his abbot's quarters, which is usually done. Monasteries are often built on hillsides. if they're not in cities, mountain monasteries, because land is not for farming. And usually they put the abbot's house higher up the hill. That's why they have to push the guy. So Toksang came down from the abbot's house and entered the main building, was carrying his koyoki, his eating bowls,

[22:10]

And Seppo said, the bell and drum had not sounded. Where are you going with your eating bowls? And he turned around and went back to his room. So Seppo went to see Ganta, his good friend, and said, I just spoke to you. Tokson just came down with his bowls, and I pointed out the bell and drum had not sounded yet. And Ganto said, oh, he's a great teacher, that Tokson, but he's not understood the last word of Zen, the final word of Zen. So this rumor spread throughout the monastery that Ganto had said Tokson didn't understand the final word of Zen. Doksan sent for Ganto, and he came to his room.

[23:22]

His jishya brought him to the room, and in front of his jishya he said, I hear you don't approve of me. And Ganto went over and whispered something. So, Ganta went down to the main building and said, I told him the last word. Tokson came down and gave a much better than usual lecture. And Ganto afterwards clapped his hands. See, he's understood the final word of Zen.

[24:25]

Seppo didn't know what was going on. Tuk-san was a strange man, a rather interesting man. One time, a monk came to his door and said, you know, whatever they say in China, to get in the door. And Tuk-san said, who is it? And he said, the monk said, it's a lion cub. And he said, come in. And when he opened the sliding door to come in, Tukson leaped on him, grabbed him, threw him on the ground and said, you devil, you, where have you been?

[25:30]

So anyway, here's old Isan, you know, sitting in his temple, and Toksan comes and says nothing, nothing, and leaves, and decides he should come back. Maybe he was too hasty. And he greets Toksan, to Isan, spreading his bowing point. And Isan starts to reach for his whisk, Before he has a chance to really pick it up, he chokes up.

[26:35]

Now, if Isan had criticized him, come off it and have a cup of tea. Don't talk like me. Is he just accepted? Is this grasped in a way or granted? Is he this mature old Zen teacher? Is he dumbfounded by Togsang? Or is he Togsang's teacher, actually? Toksan, never forget Isan. Take Isan, hook Toksan. so

[27:55]

What was your motivation? Did they understand each other? It's very difficult to know. Recently there's been some research on auras. And they've tried to photograph the auras of people and maybe things.

[29:22]

Rather interesting idea. But actually, how we see another person. Maybe a camera can film. Although a camera is designed to film material objects, maybe a camera can record on film some wider aspect of our body and mind than we usually see, perhaps so. But actually, to perceive the brightness of another person is your own creativity, too. It's something common to two people. It takes two to tango, two to produce more. Where can a camera be? How can a camera film our shared emotion? How can we objectify anything?

[30:30]

How can we understand what happened, or if anything happened between the sun and Most of us think so. We have some idea of something happened, something didn't happen, something can happen, but can something happen? If so, what is it? What is its nature? A while ago I spoke about the the sources of our activity. If we find we have no nature, no predetermined nature, we don't act out of our karma.

[31:36]

Yogin Suzuki said, I just made me think of it, someone asked him what karma was and he said, Leaving the drawers of your desk open when you're looking for something. That's rather good. Anyway, a while ago I spoke about the sources of your action. A while ago I spoke about the sources of your action, and from your activity itself, and from your guidance from others, because you, by your presence, bring out the best in people.

[32:46]

Because you don't discriminate, people will guide you. You can trust them. But you begin by trusting anyway. So, how to have our activity and motivation one? And how to be how to accept from others, how to accept from Buddhism, how to be guided by, first of all, that which we ourselves are calling forth, or accepting what comes to us as something we call forth, with familiarity, not with surprise. with readiness, with great potentiality, is aroused, and it meets circumstances.

[33:52]

Did Doksan have any other alternatives? How did he choose what he did when he went to Isan, the temple? How did Isan decide what to do? Toksan, you know, was the master, he was called King of the Diamond Sutra, or Diamond Joe, Diamond Toksan. because he was quite famous as a young man, like Diamond Jim, he was quite famous as a young man for interpreting the Diamond Sutra. And you know, after Bhutan blew his candle out, the next day he burned all his commentary. If he actually did it, it's quite a act, because they didn't have printed books.

[35:15]

Some commentary was pretty valuable, and rare to have a woodblock print or handwritten version of some sutra or commentary. It would have been much more valuable than anything we can imagine now. And he burned it and said, all philosophies are like a hair in the sky. All understandings are like a drop of water in a great ravine. And he burned it. the Diamond Sutra commentary. Later, he came to his own temple, as you know, and he looked very critical of Maitreya.

[36:32]

traditional monastic life, another form of the Diamond Sutra, maybe. But by this time, fairly mature Zen person. So what would he be doing coming to Isan's temple? Wasting his time? Challenging Zen masters again? After he blew out, after Yutan blew out his candle, he said, Never again will I doubt the word of a great Zen teacher.

[37:37]

His son at that time was the most famous Zen teacher in China. Ryutan was also very famous. And that's part of the story when he went to see Rutan. He said, you're so well known, you're so well known, but I don't see either a dragon or a lake. And Rutan said, haven't you seen it? Various ways to interpret what he said. You are seeing it now in person.

[38:51]

Tengo said how daring Tokusan is to stroke the tiger's whiskers. young man without, with no more inner contradiction would dare to do it with his potentiality around. Anyway, these stories are very realistic and not different from you. Quite familiar to you.

[39:57]

You'll understand them better than you know your own mother and father. How clear. of us are. How deep their concern for us that extends to today. Can you taste them in your own practice?

[40:52]

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