This podcast is offered by the San Francisco Zen Center on the web at www.sfcc.org. Our public programs are made possible by donations from people like you. Good morning, dear ones. You know, it's always wonderful for me to be here at Green Gulch because I have two different to coming into a crowded room and starting a talk. One is abject terror, and the other is just love and familiarity with this room, the practice, and this thing that we do together. So, just for your information, as an aside, fear... In Buddhism, there's five fears, and one of them is speaking before an assembly.

[01:08]

It's right there lined up with death, insanity, losing one's income for one's children, injury, sickness, the whole nine yards, and then there's... speaking in front of an assembly. So if you are afflicted with this, you totally understand. If you're not, you probably don't get it. You know, the first part of my talk, I was planning to address the children because it's family day, isn't it? So where are the kids? Well, we can all be kids. I'll just tell you what I was going to tell them. It's so good to be alive in a human body.

[02:14]

In meditation practice, we take good care of our human body. Now, This was going to work well with the kids, but I'll skip over it. A couple of months ago, I fell on my face while running and hurt myself. My eyes turned black and purple and magenta, and my nose hurt for about a month. And I was going to ask the kids to share occasions when they had been hurt and who would help them. So we'll move on to... In meditation practice, we take good care of ourselves. So let's do a few minutes of meditation together. Meditation is a way of taking good care of our body by giving ourselves a warm hug. We can meditate when we're happy or sad or hurt or angry.

[03:17]

And we can meditate anywhere, no matter what we're doing. This is because meditation is simply breathing in the air of the Earth's atmosphere, breathing out, falling into the Earth by the Earth's gravity. In meditation, we breathe in and out this way without moving much, just feeling the fresh air entering our bodies, feeling the generous earth holding us as we let go, ready for a new breath, ready for a new breath of fresh air. We can feel the breath in our nose, our throat, our chest, down to our belly as it nourishes our body with oxygen.

[04:24]

releasing breath, we give back carbon dioxide, which nourishes the plants. Meanwhile, plants are breathing in carbon dioxide and breathing out oxygen, sort of. Plants and animals are partners in creating the Earth's atmosphere, and there are many, many other partners too. Half of the oxygen in the Earth's atmosphere is produced by many teensy-weensy creatures called phytoplankton. They live in the ocean, half of our Earth's oxygen. Some of the air we breathe comes from far away. Some of the air we breathe comes from the bodies of people and other animals right around us. We share the Earth's atmosphere, just like we all share wanting to be happy.

[05:51]

So let's sit for a couple of minutes this way. Thank you.

[06:57]

Today, I'd like to talk to you about a story from the Mumonkan. It's a koan collection. This is case number 32, and it goes like this. A non-Buddhist philosopher questions the Buddha. A non-Buddhist once asked the world-honored one, I do not ask for words, nor do I ask for no words. The world honored one remained seated. The non-Buddhist praised him, saying, the great compassion of the world honored one has dispelled the clouds of my ignorance and enabled me to be enlightened. I'm going to read that part again. A non-Buddhist once asked the world-honored one, I do not ask for words, nor do I ask for no words.

[08:00]

The world-honored one remained seated. The non-Buddhist praised him, saying, the great compassion of the world-honored one has dispelled the clouds of my ignorance and enabled me to be enlightened. Making a bow of gratitude, he departed. Ananda, who was at Buddha's side, then asked Buddha, what realization did the non-Buddhist have that made him praise you like that? He said, what realization did the non-Buddhist have that made him praise you like that? The world honored one replied, he is like a high-meddled horse. which starts at even the shadow of the whip. A high-mettled horse that starts at even the shadow of a whip. So that's from the Gateless Barrier, the Mumonkan.

[09:01]

I used Zenke Shibiyama's work, his translation. Shibiyama Roshi was an important Rinzai Zen teacher in the 20th century. He was born in 1894 and he died in 1974. So I grew up by the ocean. I've been a scuba diver for many years, and I had a long career teaching school in Mill Valley, especially marine biology to seventh graders. So I tend to read Zen stories with the ocean in mind. Fact is, I tend to do everything with the ocean in mind. But I approach a Zen story like this as I would approach a tide pool at low tide. By the way, today is a full moon. Not only that, it's a blue moon. We haven't had a blue moon for a while.

[10:04]

In case you don't know, a blue moon is when there's two full moons in the same month. And it pretty much has to happen when the full moon falls on the first day of the month. And then it can't happen in February. more or less. So anyway, it's a blue moon. Take a look. It's not blue or anything. So back to the tide pool. I want to take a look at this story the way I would look at a tide pool at low tide. I know there are many beings, some living, some recently living or soon to be living here, some what we call non-living, like the water and the stones. Some are known, many are unknown. So let me see what there is here today, what there is to learn. The first thing to do when approaching a tide pool is to stay still and quiet.

[11:08]

Because this allows the animals to return to what they were doing before I arrived. They are fully aware of my presence, my footsteps, the shadow I cast, my smell, and my sounds. They'll get used to me in a few minutes and just go about their business. So first of all, I'm curious about this non-Buddhist. He seems to be a man, but the story doesn't feature that point. Why did he come to meet the Buddha? Maybe he had heard about Buddha's teachings and being a seeker himself. wanted to speak with him. His question was careful and intentional. That is, it indicates to me that he put a lot of thought and consideration into his statement. I do not ask for words. I do not ask for no words. Or maybe he traveled from teacher to teacher asking each one the same question.

[12:16]

But we don't know that. We only have the encounter between the non-Buddhist and the Buddha, followed by the conversation between Ananda and Buddha to work with. So let's work from there. The non-Buddhist seems to know that the way is not to be found in words, more in refraining from words. He seems to be asking, what is my life beyond words and no words, beyond seeking and non-seeking? In other words, he seems to be stymied by duality. Raise your hand if you've ever been stymied by duality. You know, these koans are so beautiful because... They are sort of about historical conversations, although we have hardly any way to verify that because they're very old.

[13:26]

This one, I don't know when this one was written, but most of the koans were collected in Tang Dynasty China, which means 700 to 900 AD, a long time ago. So it's kind of like, I don't remember when Beowulf was written, but it's like the same ballpark. What? So, duality, stymied by duality. Buddha offered his quiet presence, his human body resting on the earth, breathing in and breathing out, just doing zazen. In this way, Buddha directly expressed Refrain from avoiding duality as well as refrain from engaging duality. This is really helpful and sound meditation instruction for us.

[14:29]

When duality arises in our meditation practice, we return to full presence. Without excluding or including duality, we simply sit quietly breathing. because bearing witness to life itself, bearing witness to life as it is in that moment. No need just now for comparisons, analysis, understanding, or words. As images and thoughts arise, we allow them without engaging them. We allow them their own time, their own rhythm, their own intensity without engaging them. This is how Buddha responds to the non-Buddhist visitor, just like Zazen. In this way, he shows the visitor and the visitor witnesses that even raising the question about words, no words, action, restraint,

[15:43]

from action, is included and already accounted for in the practice of zazen. It's already accounted for and fully included. In zazen practice, everything is welcome, witnessed, even appreciated, yet without interaction. not as an object, rather as the taste of this one and only moment, without judgment, without seeking understanding. This reminds me of Walt Whitman's famous line from Walt Whitman's famous poem. Do I contradict myself? Very well, then I contradict myself. I am large, I contain multitudes.

[16:47]

He has that same beautiful sense of, we're not here to clean the place up exactly, sort of, but we're not trying to get rid of anything here. How do we do this? When I sit, sometimes I'm agitated, maybe about an event that occurred or one that it is to occur. or might occur, or even could never occur. Or even if I'm not agitated, maybe just preoccupied with whatever. I sometimes bring to mind the image of my belly as grandmother's lap. Grandmother has a big, soft lap, and she has many grandchildren. All are welcome to climb into her lap, the squirmy ones, the weeping ones, the fighting ones, and the little angels. All are welcome to come and go from her lap.

[17:55]

All are loved. Grandma doesn't get involved with their complaints, their stories, their arguments, because she can't hear very well. And her eyes aren't so good either. Sometimes they all leave and she sits content in solitude and silence. Later they might return, one at a time or two or the whole lot of them. Either way, alone or in the company of her grandchildren is fine with grandma. She just sits right here, loving and accepting everyone, everything, as well as no one. and nothing in her warm lap. This is the image that comes to my mind when I read this koan.

[19:08]

Buddha sits quietly accepting whatever comes his way, expressing no preference, and not excluding any person. Their language, not their behavior. In this way, he sees the whole person. He understands and accepts that person. Through Buddha's accepting eyes, that non-Buddhist man, had the possibility of seeing himself, unembellished, either by words or understanding, or by refraining from that. Now, this person is described as a non-Buddhist. The commentaries speculate about who he is and where he came from. In that time, maybe it was important

[20:10]

to identify with a group, a teacher, or a religious belief. For us in our time, Buddhist or non-Buddhist identity means very little. Those of us who were ordained call ourselves Buddhist, but when I'm in the company of a so-called non-Buddhist, the affiliation isn't that relevant. Since Buddhism is fairly new to us, It does not place us in a group or give us an identity that has much bearing in our daily lives outside of Sangha relationships. And certainly it has great bearing in a residential community such as Green Gulch Farm. And it's even a matter of study relationships, these kinds of relationships. but I think all of us share that we hold the practice dear, less so the Buddhist identity.

[21:19]

I feel a strong sense of generosity and appreciation between the non-Buddhist and the Buddhist. When Buddha offers his full presence without the limitation of language, the non-Buddhist understands his offering, and expresses deep gratitude. Later, Ananda asked Buddha the simple question, innocent and fresh, what did this person understand that led him to praise you in that way? Buddha answers Ananda, he's like a high-mettled horse which starts at even the shadow of the whip. This refers to a story liking people to four kinds of horses from the Samyukta Agama Sutra, illustrating four natures of human capacity.

[22:26]

They are the best horse who starts moving when it sees the shadow of the whip. The good horse who moves when it feels the whip brushing its skin and hairs on its back. The poor horse who moves when it feels the pain of the whip. And finally, the really bad horse who moves when the pain of the whip penetrates its bones. Suzuki Roshi famously said that the really bad horse is the best Zen student. Because that person doesn't give up. on practice when it is difficult. This is the Zen practitioner who loves Zen, is in it for their whole life. It's like a mother's love, never giving up on one's child, no matter how difficult, no matter the challenges.

[23:31]

Most commentaries see Ananda as the really bad horse. This subtle drama between the non-Buddhist and Buddha has unfolded before him, and by his straightforward, innocent question, he seems not to have understood. Yet, it is from his simple question that we learn how Buddha experienced the encounter. Maybe the non-Buddhist was awakened by his encounter with Buddha, yet never returned to take up the practice. We don't know. But we do know that Ananda stayed close to Buddha his whole life, supposedly never awakening until after Buddha's death. Yet, everything we have, everything we know of Buddha's words and teachings is because of Ananda's extraordinary memory and his dogged commitment.

[24:36]

He memorized all the teachings. When I look at Ananda's simple question to Buddha, what realization did the non-Buddhist have that made him praise you like that? I'm reminded of Ananda's simple question to Buddha on behalf of Mahapajapati, the Buddha's aunt and stepmother, who asked Buddha for women to be able to ordain in the Buddhist order. Mahapajapati, along with hundreds of women, walked for days to where the Buddha was staying to ask him for ordination. Buddha turned them down twice until Ananda asked Buddha the simple question, are women able to achieve the same enlightenment as men? Buddha said, yes, of course. And that opened the door for thousands of years of women ordaining and practicing the way.

[25:45]

We also know there is much work to be done in that area. In this way, we can feel tenderness and gratitude for everyone in Buddhist history, including Buddhists, non-Buddhists, Earth's atmosphere and gravity, so-called living and non-living beings throughout time. All the sutras, the commentaries, the stories, the teachings in the long history of Buddhism have been shared by some sort of horse. The gifted and talented ones, the steady, never giving up ones, the workhorses, and the troubled ones. Just like the grandchildren in grandma's lap, nothing and nobody is extra. Everyone is welcome. Everyone is needed to bring the Buddha's teaching to life and to share it through the generations.

[26:53]

That is my very short talk for today. I suspect we have time for questions. and discussion. Don't be shy. You know what you could do is put your hand up first and then think of the question. I sometimes tell my people that I talk to, when we speak in a Zen setting, we don't plan what we're going to say.

[28:02]

We don't think about it much. We just open our mouth and start to sing like a bird. And we will be as surprised by what comes out as anyone else. It's a wonderful practice. It's a little scary, especially in a big group. Thank you for your talk. You're welcome. I wonder if you could share more about not running towards and not running away. Well, the thing is, learn how to stop running. We tend to throw our attention on the object. Do you know what I mean? Like... Of course I'm going to run away if there is a mountain lion in front of me. No, you shouldn't do that. You should definitely not run away if there's a mountain lion in front of you. But if there's something in front of me, I'm definitely going to run away. But forget the object. Just enter the running away, not running away, the activity of running away, and find some quiet.

[29:13]

How about not running away? How about... How about staying right here? Can you say more about what you wonder? Yeah, I guess I was thinking about in sitting meditation, but also just in daily life practice. I guess I really like that... instruction in a way. It feels like something good to remember or to come back to. And it's kind of paradoxical and interesting. Yeah, it is. Meditation is kind of like a muscle that we've never exercised before if we are just learning it. To learn how to not think and to learn how to do that

[30:15]

without having this bully inside us punch down the thoughts and think that that's going to get rid of them, you know. Because the bully is just another thought. Huenang, our sixth ancestor in the Platform Sutra says, don't try to stop thought. When you stop thought, you'll be dead. Dead people don't think. He said, don't try to stop thought. Let thoughts flow. Just don't attach. So that is a very mysterious instruction. We have to figure out, okay, let thoughts flow and not attach. I'm not even sure if I know the difference between letting them flow and attaching. So it's something to study in our meditation practice. When a thought comes up, we notice that we have a response. We notice, say, anger. Anger is an easy one because it's so distinct.

[31:17]

When we are angry, our thought, we probably want to go to the object of our anger. I'm mad at that person because of this, or I'm mad at myself because I did this. We want to go to the object. But instead of doing that, we can stay in our body and study, oh, anger. It has something to do with some heat rising in my chest. some increased heart rate, increased breathing rate, some kind of my shoulders are moving up here. There's some characteristics of anger that we can study. And then when we do that in our meditation practice, we can relax our shoulders. We can bring our attention back down low in our body. And we can do that. and refrain from yet again playing the tape loop about how we're angry at something that somebody did when I was three or whatever.

[32:23]

Does that make sense? So our practice is very much concerned with not throwing our attention to the object. So I contain multitudes. I don't have to get rid of any of the multitudes. I just don't want my multitudes to be rioting on the street and tearing things down. Sometimes I might, but no. It's projecting the whole thing onto an object. That's where our meditation work is, speaking for myself. Thank you. Thank you for that talk. I have two children, and at the moment, they're two very different types of horses. And the metaphor kind of ends there, no whips or anything.

[33:26]

I've been thinking a lot as I practice Sazen, how my children are very small, three and one and a half, and they're not yet in a, maybe they are more non-lualistic than I am, but I can't explain with words to them a lot of concepts yet. And I know that's part of the Zen teaching is that just sitting is, you know, the way to learn rather than speaking. And for my children, I wonder, in that story, there's an implicit comparison, at least the analysis between the non-Buddhists and the non-driving meaning. With my children, one of the things I think a lot about is comparison create quite a bit of shame. if they don't have the framework of non-dualism and understanding that both can be good. And so I was just wondering on your reflections of how to treat the different horses before I can teach them some of the foundational aspects of non-dualism in a way that doesn't create shame or unintended consequence with the varieties of teaching.

[34:34]

What do you mean? When you said shame, give me some context for that. Yeah, I see when I compare my, like if I were to say, you know, to one child that, oh, your sister learns in a different way than you do, or, you know, your sister is the, whatever, the steel horse, the good horse, you know, that would implicitly create a reaction of, oh, so what am I? And so how to have these different modalities of teaching to the varieties of horses without... Yeah. Well, start out like Grandma. Just offer your big loving lap and don't over-engage with them. You know, kids, Norman and I have twin sons who are going to turn 50 in a couple months. And we raised them here.

[35:35]

We moved here when they were four. We were at Tassajara. We moved there when they were seven months, and we moved here when they were four, and they left here to go to college. So now they live in a way different world. It's surprising how little you can do for kids, how much they get out of so little. You know what I mean? Like, their eagle eyes are on everything all the time, things that we miss, things that we don't have time for. They're looking at everything all the time, and they're learning so quickly at lightning speed. I'm sure that you wake up a week. If you go away and you come back to your child a week later, whoa. How old are they? Thirty and one and a half. Yeah, yeah. So the main thing, I would say, is trust them.

[36:35]

trust them. It's not, you don't have to do all the teaching. There's a huge world that surrounds them that is contributing to the teaching, contributing, you know, a lot. Of course, you are contributing a lot, but you don't have to take charge. You can sort of, you know, be a really good observer, see what's going on, see where you can step in and help and where you have to step in and help. There's plenty of those. moments. But, you know, you can trust them and listen to them. Thank you. Why don't you wait for the mic, although I can hear you. A year ago or so, I gave a talk here and I couldn't hear the questions. And so since then, I've gotten hearing aids.

[37:43]

This is more of a comment than a question. I'm reminded of a story that your husband, Norman, told here easily 25 years ago. It's my first time back in about that. Wow. Welcome back. Thank you. And it has stayed with me and I have practiced it. And that is, here's a paraphrase, of saying goodnight to your twin boys and going to one bed and saying, you're the best. And then going to the other bed and saying, you are the best. best. And I do that with my two cats every day.

[38:45]

Thank you, Norman. Isn't that wonderful? We can reinvent language here. If, you know, best is a comparative word in the English language, but we don't have to follow that rule, you know. Everybody in this room can be best. And we can actually study that and discover it's actually true, you know. Yes, in the back. Thank you for your talk. You're welcome. I wonder, is there an age limit on going into grandma's lap? And my second question is, how do you know if you're going in grandma's lap too much or not enough?

[39:48]

Oh, you're one of the squirmy ones. Yeah, me too. Well, you know, grandma's lap is the whole earth. And just the feeling... of being loved and included in this whole earth, regardless of what kind of a funky mood we're in or whatever, what kind of a desperate situation we're in, of our own making or not. Regardless of all that, we are held and loved by life, by the air, by the gravity in this great earth, Grandma's lap. So you can almost... I mean, some short version of that is like a little mantra for you. Oh, Grandma's lap. The Grandma's lap thing is kind of, like, that was my image because I'm a grandmother and I teach, you know, I'm a schoolteacher the whole nine yards.

[40:53]

But it's really kind of a variation on Suzuki Roshi saying... If you want to control your cows, you give them a really big field. So the point of that is, if you want to control your cows, forget about it. Don't try to control your cows. Why would you control a cow? Give them a really big field so that whatever harm they're doing, they won't be doing the kind of harm. So it's that kind of an image. It's a flipping around. How do I control my cows? Well, Suzuki Roshi doesn't say, you don't. Stop trying to control your cows. He says, you know, just give them a place where they don't need to be controlled. So the grandmother's lap is kind of, is a similar theme. But what I really like to use, I really am liking to use the word in Zen teaching and practice as much as I can.

[41:54]

Love. I really like love. we kind of drummed it out of things there for a while. And I really think that, you know, Grandma's lap, I'm a grandmother, so I know, and if you're grandparents, you know this, it's just love, you know. Kathy, I'm wondering, the story of the I Don't Ask for Words, I Don't Ask for No Words, Do you think it's that there was nothing needed to be said? Or why the silence? Well, I think that the way I take it is that the answer includes both. You know, it's like the field or grandma's laugh. Words or non-words. Don't get caught up in words.

[42:55]

Don't get caught up in not using words. Just include the whole thing. And that's how it strikes me that Buddha's response to him embodies, we're just all here with whatever words and non-words and whips on our back, whatever we have, we're just all here. Thank you. Thank you for the lecture. I really appreciate it. I'm wondering if you could comment more in my practice. I've been practicing for a little while now, but very on and off. But if you could just comment more on sort of, and this is how I feel in my practice, it's just a fluctuation between the bad horse and the good horse and how to sort of work with that.

[43:58]

Yeah, well, you contain multitudes, so, you know, it's your horses. Let me just say sort of a preface to what I can sort of say about that. You know, I really like to think of Zen practice or Zen practice communities as like artist colonies. One of our sons is an artist, and I went to help him once he was at RISD, and I went to help him when he was in the middle of his semester, he was working on a project. And working on a project at RISD meant, you have dinner, and you sit around, and you do this and that, and about maybe 11.30 at night, you go to the studio. And, you know, so we did that. 1130 at night, we went to the studio, and, you know, people were drifting in, drifting in and drifting in, and, you know, chatting and preparing and everything.

[45:01]

And within an hour, it was like zendo, fifth day of sesheen. It was like quiet, intense. Everyone was completely occupied with their project. And Occupy included going over and saying, can I borrow some plaster of Paris for my project over here? You know, it included doing their art in some minimal interaction, but it was, it just really opened my eyes. I thought, wow, this is like the Zendo, this is like Sashin, you know. Just that sense of intensity, but everyone is doing their own art. Everyone is following their own inspiration. getting ideas and sharing materials all over the place, but everyone is really generating their own practice here. So we can give you some guidelines. The characteristic of Zen is that there's a way to walk across the floor. You start with one foot, not the other foot, and you turn to the right, but not to the left, and you do all this stuff.

[46:07]

But when you sit down in a cushion, somebody might say, well, you could follow your breaths if you want. You can count them if you want. You don't get an instruction manual here for meditation. So we generate the practice ourself in discussion with each other in all kinds of ways, possibly in some reading about Buddhism in whatever way works for your life and whatever way interests you. We get some inspiration, but the work is our own. And so when I talk about the Grandma Lap thing, that fits me, and I want to share it with you because it's helped me a lot to, you know, in my life, to have, you know, parts of me that I think I'm supposed to drum out and get rid of, or parts of me that I can't accept. No, no, no, no, no. Grandma's Lap.

[47:08]

Just all those ornery little grandchildren have a place here. They have a place and they have a function. So that's the preface to your question. What I wanted to say was that we find our anchor in zazen. In general, our anchor is breath. And it's very, I'm not going to tell you what to do, but for me, it's been very important to keep my breath low in my belly. And so that's just where I come back to. And if I come back with a crowd of ornery children, that's okay. I just know where I'm coming back to. And I know that I'm coming back to breath. There's a lot of different practices. You don't have to do that one. But I did want to say that this is really kind of your own work and we're all here to...

[48:13]

help each other out in whatever way we can. Would you like to say more? So I'm... Who's talking? Sorry, me back here. I'm rather new to meditation practice in general. And one of the things that's kind of been weighing on me recently is trying to sort out awareness from over or like a hyperactive awareness of myself. And it's something that's moving beyond just the zendo into just my normal life of, yeah, sorting that balance. And I was wondering if you had any sort of advice or thought around that. Yeah. Well, you wanna study the overactive thing. You wanna think, you know, feel into it. When you feel overactive, go to your body. and find a way to calm yourself.

[49:16]

Usually with breath, but sometimes it's actually best to go walking. Especially if you're kind of spilling over with some kind of energy that's not helpful. It's nice to get outside and move your body. That's very helpful. But go to your body and see what's what. And like I said, for me, it's been helpful to go to a place... not to go roaming all over my body, which is not to say that I don't, I do have awareness of different parts of my body, but my primary is breath in the belly. So when you feel like a lot of energy that seems chaotic, is that, could you say more about? Yeah, I guess it's kind of, my understanding of meditation is to be aware of yourself and to sort of watch what's happening.

[50:17]

And it happens certainly in meditation, but I've been noticing a lot more out of it. Like I'm a resident here, so in kind of the life here, this sort of awareness can almost become almost obsessive and sort of circular. It's sort of tricky at times I've been finding to sort, I guess what's more like a Zen positive awareness versus a Yeah, anxious, obsessive awareness, if that makes sense. Yeah, that makes sense. Now, I have almost the opposite problem, and I've come up with something that's helped me. I like to run, and I like to hike. And so about two months ago, I fell on my face, and I mentioned that. And I've really thought, I don't want to stop running. I'm an old lady, and there's reasons that old people fall. And I've studied the situation and think, well, you know, my feet are not as smart as they used to be. My feet are going stupid on me.

[51:19]

And so I have intentionally, when I run or walk, I intentionally put my attention on the bottom of my feet. And instead of breathing in and breathing out, which is always good, I mean, you're always doing it, so it's good, I put my attention on the contact of my foot to earth, one after another. And I mean, by definition, that's very grounding. But it's also, you know, it's repetitive and it's calming and it's helpful to me. So my suggestion is to try going somewhere in your body like your feet. someplace that doesn't usually get a lot of attention, like the bottom of your feet. I don't know how much attention you give it, the bottom of your feet. Something like the bottom of your feet, if you put your attention there, it's kind of like a little break. It gives you kind of a break, and also it's really satisfying to feel contact with the earth actively over and over again that way.

[52:33]

So that's just an idea. Crystal Joy here. I have an aversion to a teaching, and I would love to just hear some of your words onto it, and I'll give you a little context. The Buddha didn't cry. This compassionate man who was incredibly equanimous, and he didn't cry. And one of my favorite teachings from the Bible is that Jesus wept. And I identify with that like crazy because I consider myself a very compassionate person. And with that compassion... There are a lot of feelings that I have with my own things, but also other beings, and especially in the world right now, in the news, various things, right? And whenever I hear that teaching, I'm like, I don't ever, ever want to get to a point where I don't feel it and cry from some of the things that I hear about that happen to other humans.

[53:44]

And it's not that I don't want equanimity. but does that mean I have to lose those deep feelings of being human and being compassionate for these beings? Yeah, equanimity. I think we have to take equanimity more like grandma's lap. Everyone is welcome. Everyone is loved without exception. Equanimity, if we take equanimity as kind of, you know, blending everything out so it's equal. then I think that we don't... I don't think that does us justice as practitioners. And as for the weeping, I didn't know that Buddha never wept. I mean, to me, he weeps. And, you know, not a weeping image, but a kind of extraordinary bursting-out compassion image is Avalokiteshvara,

[54:47]

who is covered with eyes and ears and grows a new hand when she needs to help. I mean, so that's not about a fantastic creature who can grow hands, like an amoeba. I was thinking of amoebas. But anyway, that's just weird. But it's... It's not that she has a magical power to grow hands and eyes. It's that she has such feeling. Her heart is breaking open such that she has capacity beyond normal to help. You know, we've all known such people. Maybe Jesus would like that. And then a follow-up to that, then there is the... What... I don't have the formulated question, but it's like the not getting so overwhelmed when so much is coming at you, death, loss, suffering, because of being a compassionate person, right?

[56:01]

Like not being overwhelmed. What are the tools to that? Like to be able to have the eyes and the ears and the breaking open without breaking down. Yeah. Well, that's the big question for us in our world, isn't it? We've got, what, eight and a quarter billion people and growing, and the suffering is beyond our imagination, and when it comes to our attention, it's heartbreaking, and sometimes we can't even touch it, you know? So, yeah, the dilemma of our time in the world, and we don't know if it's been similar at other times in the world. I mean, we do know horrible, horrible tragedies have happened in history, throughout human history. We just don't know. We don't know our context very much. We just know what it is for us now. And we just do our best. Meditation and sleep and eating healthy food allows us to get up and be ready to face the next day.

[57:11]

So we take care of ourselves. In Buddhism, everything we do starts with ourself. The practice of compassion starts with ourself. The practice of forgiveness, the practice of giving, it always starts with ourself. And when we understand giving, when we understand how we give to ourself, then we can open up that giving to others. And that's kind of the opposite of our tradition, especially for women, in which women were kind of expected to sacrifice, give up what you have and want and everything and do for others. Buddhism is not like that. We start nourishing ourselves. We don't see a separation between ourselves and others. So it's an expression of love and caring that we take care of ourselves. It's just that we don't stop there. we've had time okay well thank you very much it was a pleasure to sit in this room with I mean can you imagine sitting in a room with I have to imagine sitting in a room with people who want sincerity and love and giving in their lives and gather together to think about

[58:50]

How could we do this? What could be more sweet than that? Thank you for listening to this podcast offered by the San Francisco Zen Center. Our Dharma talks are offered at no cost and this is made possible by the donations we receive. Your financial support helps us to continue to offer the Dharma. For more information, visit sfcc.org and click giving. May we fully enjoy the Dharma.

[59:21]

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