No Self

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SF-00915
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Sunday Lecture: zen sayings: "Who's dragging this corpse around?; sense of self - root of all suffering; need to understand no-self, not just conceptually; Buddhist tool kit for understanding no-self; clearly identify sense of self - when saying "I" or "me" - false accusations; philosophical analysis; self same as body and mind or different; Bodhisattva precepts; Rumi poem

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the
good morning
welcome
i'd like to bring up the subject of no self
what of the buddha's
t teachings
that most of you have probably heard of before and i and i also like to talk some about the bodhisattva precepts because this afternoon and there is a
receiving of the bodhisattva precepts ceremony
and how these two are related
so if if you've heard a lot about know myself and feel like well yeah i know that's not that again
please
ah
that's together remember ah the importance of his teaching and and ha
there is infinite depth to
the realization experience in his teaching
it's easy to just hear the words and say oh yeah yeah that how but really are
let's take it up together today

herself
what is this self
hey it seems that we we believe whether we know it or now had it seems that that the proposal instead that we have this innate inborn believe that there's
some ah
substantial core of new newness of i
that is
doesn't change n
he's always here
and we experienced the world in this way

how can you hear in the back

so in in hour in many traditions there's this practice of questioning investigating
what is this sell of her who am i
and in zen we have cohen's like who is it it's dragging this corpse around
and one could just take up this question or who is it gets thinking about buddha
who is it that's reciting buddha's name
these are simple
cons questions to point back to investigate who who this is and this end style is very pare down so it is of questions like this but in yeah yeah yeah
the vast who is tradition there are many tools we can use to help us with this investigation to to break it down and i try to locate where this self might be if it's there
also so that the context for this is the air ah i think is the most important thing to remember in ways that
that this is believed that there's that there's somebody here pervading
our experience
could say the the owner of of our experience or the controller
that that that one is actually because of all suffering an affliction problems and it might think if we if we haven't really thought about this teaching much we might think that's kind of silly that's too much to say that and i bet it cause of some problems but that
but this is the proposal that actually without this this this core a mate
how
belief
that we would actually be
happy and free even in the midst of difficulties and we wouldn't have
problem symbol in the sense that we usually have columns we still might have problems with war and other people being hurt and so on but but most of our problems aren't usually like than their male audience personal problems
and hat
without this belief though is would actually ceased to be
also part of the story is that
ah seeing this belief and i'm not just seeing it in a
ah are not just refuting in in a conceptual way but actually
experientially understanding tasting that it's it's really really no more than an illusion is a he's actually just the beginning of the process of
awakening in the buddhist way
this would be
home
sometimes called entering the stream of practice
first can tasted good that they packed our personal permanent inherently existent self of the person is merely an illusion and i and the the tradition says that at that time
get that that belief is seen through it's not the end of the story we can still have many difficulties because of our habits from countless lives we still have
all this karmic stuff going on that with
that's still playing out
but a relationship to on that stuff is is a little different we did we can't take it quite as seriously
so a part of what happens at this time he is is that there's no more doubt about that that this freedom from ah from suffering is possible
there is like
that guy is is gone and actually can never rise again without that it's possible even though it may be still have a lot to work of work to do there's no doubt that actually that and that that insight is the basis for the rest of the work we have to do
and also there's said that there's at that time there's no more
on
grasping ads precepts and practices and so this can tie into how as we as we look at the precepts
on this would be like a kind of superstition
and he and factors may maybe no worm on belief in any kind of superstitious ideas especially regarding liberation and dharma and so on so even that even the belief that practicing precepts will will be the
if he substance of our realization of are awakening and freedom
even our belief is is no longer holds up which is not to say that that's precepts aren't important but we just the way we see them is different
and also at that time they say there's there's no more falling into hell rounds and this can be seen to be just don't hell is it is a state of mind so after being sure
by seeing and knowing that theory that this this owner controller
critter in there is no longer
ah as real as we thought that
we can't fall into deep despair
we might still be able to fall into a kind of a more selfless despair about the state of the world for example ah maybe possible but even there now it seems that it wouldn't be that kind of on
you know
so deep that on that we don't want to go home on or something like this
so the kids develop problems because of our karma but be can't we can't fall into hell rounds of mind because this even though this is the direct experience of this insight
can come and go
the conviction that it so
is always there always accessible
also in regard to the precepts although at that time there's no more relating to the precepts answer has kind of
ah
something to kind of hold on to to create an identity air ah uphold their identity
literally the term means something like fondling the precepts so we no longer on use them in this kind of way of like and my yeah i'm following not why didn't like i'm pretty good it down or nine it's not so much like that it's but at this time they're actually it's kind of unnatural
maybe when you and say fallen into precepts but there's naturally
if not harming others at this time through this insight helped know itself and we still might you know get into arguments and
and hurt people
by to again like not falling into hell realms in it can't get that far we can we can can we can't sustain a strong intention to harm others
it doesn't hold up our karma can still create these kinds of things better but we can't sustain during a kind of like over long time kind of scheme kind of revenge or something like this
and the reason is because it doesn't make sense anymore
our karma can still create these kinds of feelings and intentions and negative states but i but
when we remember that inside
it doesn't make sense they don't make sense they're happening because of past belief in that control her her self
but they
they don't have a way to the they they don't have the momentum
so this is the motivation to to have to see into that there's no self here it's not just a a a fun philosophical exercise it's about the root of of all our difficulties and not just for
for ourselves but this is why we create all of the trouble we do in the world with others has since the proposal that it's all based on this his thoughts believe
so who really remember that ted on how to this is no he may become the strongly motivated to
understand
and so back to some of these tools from the from the buddhist tradition
in may be enough to just ask who is dragging his corpse around but i
if you want a little more to work with there is a base analyses
this is this is convincing again
conceptual mind
ten actually they say there's the there's a way kind of two kinds of belief in himself one is the innate eight one that's not a philosophical view and the proposal that said even animals have this they don't philosophize but the day and we can by observing them it seems to be the case that they have some maybe
be somewhat crude sense other other on the self
and
just to interject this self
is the the permanent essential inherently existent warning this is not to say by any means if there is no personality or kind of conventional self that we that those things in the world that that would contradict our experience completely and on
the buddha is not to die mauer it says that mixed with that when mixed with this
conventional ah
of a self and overlaid on body and mind mixed with that when is a poem is the belief that there's that there's something behind it all
pulling it altogether
possessing an controlling the core i me

so some of these tools are first there's clearly identifying what what this is what is this spy this sense of self and part of it is on there can be a feeling about it and we weren't we this is all about experience so we can we can talk about
these various definitions of it but ah it's important to identify the experience of the sense of on this permanent self i the inherently existent owner and some of the techniques one
use a point is having a hard time identifying in i'm just actually saying the word i me i we have this sense of yeah me
and that's that's the on you know i think i did this for i'm here giving a talk or listening to a talk him maybe it is ah
i'm more than just there's just arising of the event happening there's somebody here
and they say is still that may be difficult for people so another way is to on
notice it at the time when you accused of something and especially falsely accused of something so this is a good way to identify it like you to that that that and and you didn't and and that's that maybe the strongest sense of like but i like i didn't do it
you know
so that's a really good way to find it i think that's that immediately a gut feeling kind of on almost a bottle the attention that comes with that like defense because this is what we do with based on his belief is that there's somebody here to defend and uphold and maintain
and and
promote and on continue and so on
the defense is a big one
and gratify and
put ahead of others and com
make look good and so on so
that defensive feeling can come up very easily and like but i maybe we don't even have the word but just the feeling of like contraction that's that sense of the self that's the one that's to be refuted
and some traditions would say before you even start looking into this and investigating it just become very familiar with that sense even though we all are
you know throughout the day as a kind of meditation you can have some of a kind of unpleasant meditation period but you could you can actually like continually bring up this com
this sense of being falsely accused and feeling now not me
i get you know kind of bring it out an insulating the full feeling of it and still it's hard to identify and the reason it's hard it's kind of fluid and hard to identify as because it's not there so but this is the maybe the closest we can get to the to this feeling of what it is that were
actually
going to see through
and then
another step can be mrs gets into the reasoning and known this is like logical reasoning and it's
we have this innate view and and philosophical views are through the reasoning we kind of
can undo the
the philosophical view and it seems to be most traditions i think seem to agree that this is a necessary step in the zen tradition they don't use this analytical philosophy and this same way as the
as a tibetan tradition and and the the early buddha's teachings did
but there are that they're just more poetic and analyses i'd say where did the talking about it can bring some up
a dog and sending it doesn't use this kind of thing
but it's kind of disguised women a couple of analysis
but a kind of straightforward one is to say okay is this is this self this owner controller is it
the same as identical to body and mind or is a different separate from body and mind
can remember this is an inherently existent independent self
so he's this one this one is imagine wine that we sense we feel fancy accused is that one is that the same as body and mind which is includes all our experience or as a separate
and before going on from there one would ah one would
kind of reason about that to discern that there's no other possibility besides being the same or different it's not like will kind of its kind of the same and kind of different in kind of like this weird mix in this kind of it kind of sharp analysis it's like
if you look into the logic of this
you can see for yourself it's it's it's actually quite simple but done yet they're kind of look at it for want to see that there's only these two possibilities either it's the same as body and mind or it's so different from body and mind and we're kind of were trying to corner it were trying to corner this this kind of this kind of
hazy faults believe that's kind of scurrying around and we can't get a handle on are in a corner it going to get in the corner we're going to see that that town it's not there so
is it the same or different from body and mind and body and mind is is short for the five aggregates so we don't need to go into describing news today but for down if warren is if one's not totally convinced tissues in body and mind one could
more break the break down body and mind into these five aggregates but the proposal is a body and mind our and her experiences is that body and mind are constantly changing ah
moment to moment we can see this with her body right it's it's not the same body we had yesterday or especially ten years ago
and the mine and is not the same as a moment ago either constantly changing so
is this independent permit itself the same as these constantly changing body of mine or is different so isn't the same well because by a mine are constantly changing and this other one is independent unchanging
that seems quite clear right at the beginning that's impossible
the campy this just identical to the conditioned constantly changing body and mind
so we can okay then it must be different it's only one of these two so as it is it is something that's
and this in each person's experience this might actually look different that's why you don't necessarily star with this one for the other one
some people actually my experience it like yeah i actually do think of is my body and mind that like groups can't be that cause they're just changing all the time span we flew to the other one is in separate from ah how do you mind if it were
it's independent this the self is is independent so therefore a current ah depending on the body and mind and in fact it can't be if it was related to body and mind at all
it would be in some interdependent relationship
relationship means interdependent connected somehow
ha
so if it's independent by nature and it's separate from body and mind than it can't have any connection to body and mind therefore it could just be something out there but we wouldn't experience in when were falsely accused for example and we
and it wouldn't if it's the controller and owner it how could they control their own something that it's not related to at all
so this is kind of a rough
version of this kind of inquiry than that one can do and but thoroughly investigate bad and and on
can be more elaborated instead of just same as are different thing that's the simplest version that the different were there can be other ones like is this self the the does it possess body and mind value i think
fripp for myself that one seems to be the closest to what seems to be the case that there's this self that on
kind of like overlaid somehow and on the body and mind that possesses body mind and our language seems to confirm that right so what we say we see my body
sometimes and are you know we're confused because this whole thing doesn't make any sense this thing of the south doesn't make sense our language is confused about it sometimes we say this is me and sometimes we say this is my body so right there it's like what
is it isn't the is it my body is there an eye that owns or possesses the body and mind my mind where is it like this this this is me or my my thoughts are me
more commonly it it it seems to me the conventional me that the via the self kind of somehow possesses this body and mind my body my mind and on
my sickness my pain my suffering my happiness
my big toe
all of these things we usually don't point it a big toe and say this is me but we did say it's mine
this is like and conventional they reconsider these things conventionally in order to speak we say this is mito it's not yours and can make sense in the world if it's merely convention near on words to communicate but the proposal is that how men maybe
this is how this started is that from using these words to communicate we had to ah
but they they actually through language it created we started to fall for own conventionality i think well that it actually really is my toe there's a me that owns it somehow i can a guy created somehow from this kind of language or thinking that's the basis of this kind of language
but whether or not going to the case it seems to be happening

so if it's if i am the owner of my body and mind
that seems like maybe a third possibility right it's neither the same as body my no different it's kind of it does seem kind of like a mix between the two
but actually if we look for example like if i i'm the owner of this cushion for example
then he had kind of case the the i that's the owner is separate from the cushion
it's me and the christian so that would be that would just fall into the category of self is other than body and mind and then if we think of the ownership is being like lie down the tree possesses the park
for example then it it's it then it falls into the category of being the same as self being the same as body of mine isn't tree and the bark are part of the same thing
so this might seem like if you haven't heard this kind of thing before this might seem really kind of complicated and oh really intellectual and like what's this got to deal with my experience but through
through getting used to this kind of reasoning ah one can actually
start seeing it that way without that kind of clunky list of all those words and trying to figure out what they're pointing out
it can become more familiar that kind of
investigation so they just immediately when the sense of self arises is this is this body and mind we we've already gone through the reasoning so it's like no it's not the same are now it's not different
so if if when kind of goes through the reasoning is very thoroughly and sees how there's no other possibility that is that we can kind of corner this little culprit a and we can say like k not over here the same as identical to the body mine because they are always changing and there's not a
here it completely separate and independent a body mind because then there'd be no connection at all so and i have already discern that there's no no other than these two possibilities so there's no way there could be such a one there isn't only possibility account and current it be and at the same time we're seeing that it can't be we
we can expect at the very same time we can experience while it sure seems like it this one
at the same time so then there's like these kind of home contradictory minds
it's a contradicts our experience but it actually the more the the logic ah
pervades our our mind and experience the less the
the innate belief and experience it goes with that is going to hold up so anticipate he might in my piece that it slowly gets weaker and weaker and and makes less and less sense and can be like but i you know i didn't do it and right were saying that in feeling
it's like what
it makes no sense
so then there's this than but this doesn't refute the or they conventionally appearing sir sense of self and there's different in different schools would say different things about what this what the conventional self is
maybe the most common is that done it's a it's a verbal nominal imputation or designation imputed on the collection of body and mind your the collection of the five scotus
that's how we do it most accurately
that's why it looks like body and mind but actually there isn't some permanent thickener but the collection of body and mind our which includes a whole experience on top of that we we designate
this other one is this inherently existing one
and we we experience it as fused with the constantly changing body and mind which doesn't make any sense for this is this is the closest description
we can have of how we actually experience the self without a being there it's it's it's a word it's a to stay convenient
verbal designation
and nothing more than that

but the body and mind that is constantly changing
conditioned by everything else dependent on everything else
ah that actually has no owner or controller that's the one it's free
that one's free and doesn't it is not obsessed with itself
it's just going about its life
and death
it doesn't make problems for itself
it's this
this one that's not bear the mix of problems

so what's this have to do with bodhisattva precepts
there's many ways to look at the bodhisattva precepts
ranging from the very ah obvious
on meaning of it's just a way to like get along with each other right just be nice just on be kind to people just don't hurt them and these are these various ways that we heard people and we're going to try not to because we all get along better and we're basically happier whether we have a self
or not this is why this is when simplest version maybe and the other end of the spectrum we could say it's this on
hundred and new solution
into buddhahood itself this the ceremony of receiving the precepts
sometimes insanity kind of plays with that side of things it's a inconceivable
empowerment or initiation into pan being non dual with buddha
and i i won't go into that side and are either something it may be in the middle of this spectrum of ways to look at the precepts which are all wonderful ways to to view this ceremony and the precepts
his own in relationship to this sense of self the precepts can be seen as another tool to discern this
ah
to investigate the illusory sense of self and see through it because these precepts are
which are for example not killing not stealing and so on
whereas we say a disciple of buddha does not kill disciple the buddha is not steal
these are on
basically owais i would say if if we're where we would call conventionally going against his be said for example killing and stealing on is almost always based on this based on his faults believe that there's like somebody here and control trying to
on ah
manipulate its way into on
happiness
through this kind of
distorted way that doesn't really work for example killing people
because i think we're all trying to be happy all the time
where they were killing people are not just there's misunderstandings of what works
so if one receives this precept of a disciple of buddha does not kill
and then one finds oneself killing or wanting to kill ah that's kind of decide it's a reminder that like oh that's coming from this like a little guy in the hair that isn't really there like that's it that's my gun
a diluted thought that i want to kill
they're all based on the sense of of self
stealing getting something from me lying is manipulating the situation so that i
ah look better or something
slandering others and speaking of other's faults and so on are all based on this is and we could sit we can come up with exceptions i will wouldn't it wouldn't be good to a lie to save someone's life or something like that and but doesn't want these precepts are pointing to
they're pointing to the the usual way that we do these things which is coming from this self place
and all all buddhist precepts see family monastic precepts that might be different from the bodhisattva precepts are still pointing to these places of self ah and so on but some of them might be kind of culturally arisen and from ancient india
whereas the bodhisattva precepts are are universal the they were taught by the buddha k seem to apply barry directly to ah
our lives today in a wonderful way and and waited there are enumerated the more i look at down the more i think that it's it's brilliant that way they're set forth and kind of ah
one could almost say any kind of selfish activity or intention one could classify into one of the precepts
so they're deceased ways and bot to body speech and mind that we act from this false belief so you have an accord with this study of the sale of one could practice with the precepts and just that way
that reminders
and and so so the intention and receiving could be that ah
i actually want to actually live in this to way free from this false belief in self and as a buddha where there's and so we can see the these precepts are the
activity year
a manifestation of buddha's mind body speech and mind
that's how are selfless one good i live in the world convert unconventionally you know it will look like they wouldn't be killing and stealing it's own
and you know it gets tricky when we get into the subtleties by town basically
this is how it serious
can yeah i want to live that way so we say we receive this precept a disciple of buddha does not kill so then if refinancing i really actually would like to squash that act
maybe answer it's your bag the mosquito
at that time we might be forgetting that were a disciple of buddha
so it's not like we're not a disciple the buddha exactly but we've forgotten temporarily and if we remember at that moment like i'm actually like i want to be a disciple of buddha said that one might think
a disciple of buddha ah
doesn't believe in and in his penis individual self
and if she does she wants to see through that and live in accord with that so i'm actually even though i still actually do want to kill the mosquito hand am i
what would it be like
what would it be like if i didn't
or if i looked at my intention and let that intention be like or even like i want to kill them mosquito and immediately say is the individual self separate are different body and mind
get evicted the investigation right at that time like oh yeah yeah
never mind
and these precepts are
inconceivable
the way it actually all plays out when the buddha first set for the bodhisattva precepts in brahma jealous future
he said this precept light pours forth from my mouth the precept light
they're not like some conceptual ideas they're not ah
anything we can actually get a hold of their their light so that piece applied pours forth from my mouth it it doesn't arise without a cause the buddha says that light but also it's not red yellow white black
blue
it's not existing or non-existent the precept light

and then he went on to enumerate the bodhisattva precepts

and this is
the awakened selfless one i take refuge in that even though i don't understand it completely and even know i don't seem to be experiencing i take russian jeanette and i'll actually don't get my life too
revealing that
that selfless one who can live in a world
he had to passionate time away
that's what i want to give my life too
i take russians in buddha and i may fail again and again book
and not gonna and i don't take refuge in some superstitious idea about buddha either
put her somebody who lived twenty five hundred years ago i take refuge in the one who is free from this ah
for his own a controller
creator misery for myself and others
kik messaging be one
so if this has been to hum
to dry and rational and he closed with a roomy poem
then i think he is saying the same thing but from another another religion susan
sometimes the word dod arises in the world
and i don't know how various different traditions that get god but valley i myself when i hear the word home
i think of that of the interdependent
a body and mind
the universe has for seven said yesterday the to human body
is key
her universe and ten directions
for your god you could see the god as to one who's who is not bound up by this ah
control their owner manipulator
south
propitious it this is it's kind of a story poem by dumb
ha
about a sufi saint gained by a in destiny
that magnificent dervish by as the best army came to his disciples and said i am god
it was night and he was drunk with his ecstasy there is no god but me you should worship me
at dawn when he had returned to normal
they came and told him what he'd said
if i say that again bring your knives and plunged them into me god is beyond the body and i am in this body
kill me when i say back
each student and sharpened his knife
and again by as it dragged the god wine
the sweet dessert knowing came
the inner dawn snuffed his candle reasoned like a timid advisor faded to a far corner as the sun and entered by as it
pure spirit spoke to him by as it was not there
the he of his personality dissolved
like the turk who spoke fluent arabic then came to and didn't know a word
the light of god poured into the empty by it and became words
mohammed did not dictate the koran god did
the mistake osprey opened its wings in bios ziad and sword
inside my room there is nothing but god how long will you keep looking elsewhere
the disciples do their knives and slashed out like assassin's but as they stabbed at their sheikh they did not cut by as it they cut themselves
there was no mark on that added but the students were bleeding and dying
there is somewhat held back respecting their teacher had only lightly wounded themselves
a selfless one disappears into existence and in safe there he becomes a mirror if you spit at it you spit at your own face if you see an ugly face it's yours if you see jesus and mary they are you
as it became nothing tax fear and empty
i see puts an image before you
when i reached this point i have to close my lips
those of you who are long drunk on the edge of the roof sit down or climb down
every moment spent in union with the beloved is a dangerous delight like standing on a roof edge
be afraid of their of losing that connection
and don't tell anybody about it keep your secret