This podcast is offered by the San Francisco Zen Center on the web at www.sfzc.org. Our public programs are made possible by donations from people like you. Good evening. I was looking for some way to integrate a couple of things that I want to say into the lecture that I want to give. And I couldn't figure out how to do it, so I'm going to tack them on here at the beginning. I wanted to commemorate this day, August 3rd, for a couple of reasons. One very personal. This is the day that Keith and I were married the first time. A few months before we were married the second time, this was our wedding in Idaho with our parents with a very lenient Lutheran minister since we'd been living in sin in some traditions for five years.

[01:06]

So that was 36 years ago. And we sort of remembered tonight when I was on the phone. Oh, yeah, today. So I wanted to try to remember that more. And then the other thing is this was the... The day, August 3rd in 1977, when Tassajara was evacuated for the Marble Cone Fire, when the guests were evacuated and some of the students were evacuated that night. And before that, in the summer, it was after my fifth practice period, and I was a head doan for the summer. And back in those days, there was an Eno and then there were three doans. And there was a head Doan, and there was a Doan who was the Chidin, who took care of the altars, and there was a Doan who was in charge of the work of the Doans. So the Doans, not like today, they did all of the job, all the Zendo jobs.

[02:07]

They did the Han that calls people to the Zendo, and they did the Bell, and they did the Kokyo every day. Every day we did those things. And there wasn't any Tanto. And there wasn't any, you know, there wasn't an abbot here. It was just us running as Hendo. And then besides that, we did things like we did the work that the work Doan told us to do, which was mainly that summer, as I remember it, raking that path down there. because it had just been built by the person who was the head of work for the Dohan. So every day we would rake the path, and then we would also talk to new students. The head Dohan would talk to new students and also find people to do the student dishes, because we didn't have a banjee crew there. So the student dishes were kind of like an extra thing. There was a guest dishwasher, but then there were the student dishes, which you had to find somebody to do. It was a terrible job.

[03:08]

Anyway, by the time August came along, I was really, really bored and tired of doing this job. And so when the fire came, I thought, great. That was at the beginning, I thought that. So that was August 3rd for me. It was a very exciting day when suddenly in the middle of the afternoon, the fire people came in in the middle of the afternoon and rang the railroad bell and said, all the guests have to leave, and most of the students. So that was today. There's a much longer story around that, as you might imagine, going on to the fire and how Tassar survived. And that's really maybe the main commemoration of today is that Tassar made it through that fire. And actually in the... The Basin Fire in 2008, which was much earlier, it was in June, but we reopened Tassara on August 3rd of 2008 in commemoration of the Marble Cone Fire.

[04:19]

So, that said, maybe there'll be a way to tie that into what I wanted to talk to you about tonight, which is... Going on from the last lecture I gave, I mentioned a text that Gil Fransdale is translating. I think it's called, now I don't remember what it's called, but anyway, it's a very simple text. Sutta Nipata, thank you very much. It's maybe the simplest lecture that Shakyamuni Buddha gave. And it has a very simple message, which is essentially, don't hold on to views, don't grasp views, and don't grasp sense pleasures. So I've been thinking about that some and thinking about views and what are views. And there seems to be a number of different ways that that word is used in Buddhist texts and Buddhist traditions.

[05:22]

So... I was saying last time, and I think Gil was saying too, views are, there are ideas about things. Our ideas often are values, our ideas about how things should be. So this text is saying don't hold on to those things. It's not saying don't have any values. It's not saying don't have any ideas. It's saying don't grasp them. or that grasping them is the way that we cause suffering for ourselves and for others. There also is something in Buddhism called right view, which might seem like it's a contradiction to don't grasp views, but actually I don't think it is. Right view is one of the necessities for practice, And one way that it's described, one way that Buddha described it, there's a text called the Katayana Sutta, Katayana Gata Sutta, where this man, Katayana, asks the Buddha, to what extent is there something called right view?

[06:33]

And Buddha says, this world is mainly bound by approach, inclination, and grasping. So things come to us, we have an inclination about them, and then if we like them, we grasp them directly. If we don't like them, if our inclination is not to like them, we grasp getting away from them. We grasp something else, a world without them. And then Buddha goes on to say, the person who can not be bound by this grasping inclination, who doesn't think, this is me, this is myself, and that is not myself. So when something comes at us, we think, oh, this is me, this is mine, I want it. Or we think, this is not me, I don't want it.

[07:36]

This should not be my life, get rid of it. So Buddha says, the person who cannot be bound by that inclination and grasping who is willing to who thinks he doesn't say is willing to is who thinks suffering that arises arises suffering that is subject to arising arises and suffering that is subject to ceasing ceases that person is free that person that is the essence of right view So when something approaches us and this inclination arises to not move to grasping the inclination, to not move to grasping an idea of self, but to stay in, oh, now there is a self where suffering that has the conditions of arising has arisen, or suffering...

[08:46]

that has the conditions of passing. This is a kind of negative way of saying it. You could also say joy that has the conditions of arising has arisen. Joy that has the conditions of ceasing has ceased. That is right view. That's right view. So you can see that it's actually quite similar to not grasping views. Right view is in fact views that aren't grasped. It's the view of a self. that isn't held on to. It's another way of saying it. It's the resting at ease with the ungraspability of a self. Resting at ease with the fact that... What approaches is constantly changing and constantly changing the self that appears in that response to what approaches.

[09:54]

And this approach, by the way, comes not just from the outside, not with things just coming to it, but it comes more, sometimes more poignantly, maybe, from the inside. You know, when something approaches from the inside, some part of ourself, that we also have this inclination about. I like this or I don't like this. Can we not grasp that, not grasp that inclination to let life flow on? And then there are, in some traditions, this isn't used very often in our tradition, but I think it relates quite well. There's something called the view. And this, the view, is... It's kind of how things look, or the way things look, or the way things are that supports our practice.

[10:59]

The way things are that makes it possible, actually, for this practice to be effective. Kokyo, who's the teacher at the Santa Cruz Zen Center, just gave a lecture, I don't know how long ago, but I just read it, where he quotes the first part of the Phukhan Zazengi, which is where Dogen, the founder of this school, describes Zazen. And before he goes into describing Zazen, the kind of meditation we do, he has a kind of exuberant first paragraph where he is essentially... talking about the view or the way, the way that is kind of the foundation for why it's okay to sit down and sit there. And he has a slightly different translation than one that we usually chant here in the winter, so I wanted to just read it to you.

[12:01]

The way is originally perfect and all-pervading. How could it depend on our practice or even on our realization? This vehicle of the Zen ancestors is free and naturally at rest, unrestricted, not burdened by anything. Indeed, this whole being is far beyond the dust of the world, all our old dusty habits of thinking, so it is not an issue of washing it clean. And it is never apart from us, always right here and now. So this description of... our life, of the world, that it's free. And I'll probably slip into it. Free and untrammeled, that's what we say. He says, free and naturally at rest. Unrestricted. Not burdened by anything. It's not something that we have to clean up and get presentable so that we can rely on it.

[13:11]

It's always right here. right here and right now, it's always available to us. This is the view of the world, perhaps, that one would see if they were not following their inclination, if we weren't pulled toward something, if we weren't pushing away from something, trying to protect a self, if that idea of a self wasn't functioning in this way of, I want this, I don't want that. If we were... sitting upright and not leaning toward or away from something. If we were just seeing the world without those preferences, just looking at it. And it's free, it's flowing along, and it's always right here. This evening, I don't know if any of you saw me about 5 o'clock. I was... I stopped in the office and I realized that a stage problem for tomorrow is not fixed yet.

[14:19]

And as far as I could tell, no one was working on it very much. And one of my goals in life is to not have us have any unnecessary trips over the road. Trips over the road are very hard. So one of my goals... goals, one of my values, one of my views, is to not have unnecessary trips over the road. And something had gotten... Actually, the possibility of having one less trip over the road tomorrow in the stage realm had arisen this morning, and I thought someone was going to be working on it, but it didn't seem like they were. So telephone calls and internal tightening, grasping, and the fact that looming in the background that I was supposed to be giving this lecture. And it was now five. It was actually 20 to five when it started. So I made what phone calls I could and actually talked to some people and then started down towards the bathhouse.

[15:28]

And going towards the bathhouse, I was feeling the pressure to get this worked out so we wouldn't have an extra trip over the road. And the pressure or the thought of, wait, I can't be doing this. I've got to get in a mindset where I can give a lecture tonight. This is not the right mindset. And then these words came into my mind of, it's always right here and right now. The view, the way, the basis of the nature of reality, that we can rely on is always right here and right now, walking towards the baths. And I thought, well, okay. Let me try that. So I just sort of stopped thinking about the stage and noticed what was in front of me. And it was pretty nice.

[16:28]

You may have been noticed. It's kind of nice walking to the baths. And then I thought, okay, it's not the end of the world if an extra trip happens over the road. It would be nice to avert it, but it was going to happen anyway. And then this possibility opened up, and maybe it'll still happen. Maybe that would be all right. And maybe there's nothing more I can do about it right now. So maybe I should just walk to the baths, have a nice bath, go back to my room and start thinking about this lecture. So it was actually very helpful in that moment to just settle back on what's right here and right now. What was to be done? Which doesn't exclude making telephone calls about a mistake or trying to have an impact in the world. But that extra tightening I was doing around it really wasn't all that helpful. Probably because it was already there this morning when I left a message for them. It was probably part of, you know, maybe, I don't know, they didn't say this, their resistance to trying to make it work the way I wanted it to.

[17:37]

this this way is is also sometimes called ordinary mind actually in Zen ordinary mind is maybe a kind of confusing term you know we wonder how ordinary mind which you know my really really ordinary mind And I think, yes, but without the grasping. Without the grasping, it's really our ordinary mind, whatever that is. It's pretty hard to be open to that. As I said before, the things that come from the inside are in a lot of ways even harder than a lot of the things that come from the outside because we care so much about what we think, well, this must be me. It's coming from the inside.

[18:39]

It must be myself. Not that it isn't our self, but it's, again, that ungraspable self, that place where you can't actually get a hold of a self. So confused thoughts happen. Inclination happens. Grasping happens. In fact, again, I want to read something to you. This is a quote from Dogen, again, the founder of our school. It's always surprising to me Realization is not like your conception of it. What you think one way or another before realization is not a help for realization. Although realization is not like any of the thoughts preceding it, this is not because such thoughts are actually bad and cannot be realization. Past thoughts in themselves were already realization, but since you were seeking elsewhere, you thought and said that these thoughts cannot be realization.

[19:49]

Isn't this surprising? Although realization is not like your conception of it, but you think one way or another before realization is not a help for realization. Although realization is not like any of the thoughts preceding it, this is not because such thoughts are actually bad and cannot be realization. Past thoughts in themselves were already realization, but since you were seeking elsewhere, you thought and said that these thoughts cannot be realization. This is hard for us to understand. In fact, it seems... When we remember some of our thoughts or some of our responses or some of our feelings, we think this must be impossible. That those really couldn't have been realization. Of course, that's what he says we think. So I think it's not really something that can be proved in general.

[20:55]

It's something that we have to... At the time that we're having a thought or a feeling that we think is not realization, could not be realization, we need to stop and be right with that thought or feeling, be right here and now, with an open mind, with an upright posture, with an upright posture of mind, with not leaning toward it or leaning away from it, and see what is it really. What is this thought? What is this feeling really? And is what Dogen's saying true? Is this thought actually realization? And that might take a while for us to settle to the bottom of, to actually be in right view enough, be in the place where we are not... where we're willing to be, where there isn't a graspable self, where there's a self that's constantly changing, where there's a self that maybe has some thoughts or some feelings that we don't feel so good about, and then see how do they fit in, where we're actually willing to have those, not pushing them away, and therefore, in a lot of ways, acting on them.

[22:19]

So to stay in the view, to stay... with the view the view that says live this life directly look for look for ease right here and it doesn't again it doesn't mean that there's no there's passive you know that whatever happens you just sit there and are at ease with it it includes responses that that say stop stop doing this It includes whatever happens in this world. You know, when you look at the view from Tassajara, it's often made up of mountains and rivers. And Dogen has a whole...

[23:23]

fascicle about mountains and rivers and one of the things he says is mountains mountains are very steadfast mountains are just there this is how mountains manifest people are like this sit with yourself like you were a mountain try to stay open to what is actually here and now as a place where you can be at ease, even though it might not be a very easeful thing that's coming up. Try to have that attitude toward it to see, is what Dogen said true? Is what Buddha said true? Is it actually okay to be this person? this actual person, not some imaginary person that we made up that would be better and that we're continually trying to make ourselves into.

[24:28]

Is it actually okay to be this person? So this is what I think Zazen is about. So I'm wondering, do you have any thoughts or questions? Anybody? Yes. Yes. Are you saying it's more than the reaction to those thoughts? I mean, how are those thoughts realized? Yes, that is a good question, isn't it? And yes, they do. They arise from greed, hate, and delusion, which is already sort of the inclination. You know, we want something or we don't want something. So even in the midst of greed, hate, and delusion, or thoughts about greed, we can... Stop. And notice even the greed, hate, and delusion.

[25:31]

I mean, it's kind of almost like there are levels of us, right? Like we can stop and notice greed. And that's a little different than just going with greed. And when we do, it's very interesting to see. I believe most of our greed and hate and delusion come from fear. Basically fear that I, as I am, am not enough. or not okay. Not okay. Sometimes I'm too much. I'm either not enough or too much. But that's what I think. That's something that we could look for in the midst of a greedy thought or a hateful thought. What is actually happening here? It's not so much, you have to talk about it in kind of a mental way, but it's really more of a physical way. It's more organic. It's like Can I actually be with, so when you, you know, if you hate something, if you feel revulsion towards some person or some situation or something, to stop in the midst of that and actually feel that revulsion and feel sort of,

[26:55]

Feel it as deeply as you can. And again, it doesn't mean that you don't act. And sometimes you don't have time, you know, something's happening. You don't have time to stop in the middle of it. But still, a kind of settled mindset can develop where even though we're acting, they're still noticing for, is there self-cleaning? Is there protecting of an idea of self here? That's a little extra. It adds some tension to the action. Thank you. Is there anybody else who'd like to say anything? Yes, Keith. So the way is perfect in operating. There's no need to back it clean. And yet we, . And that seems to be something that is helpful, or it helps us in some way.

[27:57]

you could say for the people next to us for their pleasure why do they need clean feet they don't actually you know they don't need clean feet you don't need clean feet but we do have you know we do have rules and regulations a lot of which actually help us to live together Help us to stay here together. And everything we do has an effect on us. So washing our feet has an effect. Brushing our teeth has an effect. Eating has an effect. Eating too much has an effect. So being tight about those rules. That person didn't brush their teeth, and it's not according to the rules. All that has an effect on us. So... Yes. It seems to me, I don't really know, but it seems to me, living here at Tassajara for a number of years, that the way these rules are set up here, which is just taken from monasteries in Japan and China, that it was developed over the whole schedule and all of the guidelines was developed, it feels to me, like over thousands of years to make a place where people can live in harmony in the midst of

[29:23]

looking at themselves and living pretty closely with each other so that we have the impact of each other, both what feels like positive impact and support to practice and what feels like negative impact, like the bringing up of difficult feelings and thoughts, some way that we can do that and continue to do it. So brushing your teeth and washing your feet are one of those things, I think. And yes, they are beneficial. And no, they're not actually necessary. Yes. So once we start noticing that we're clinging to certain identities. Yes. And we see it kind of happening over and over again. And sometimes there's no real choice in the matter, it seems. Yes. It comes up eventually. Yes. Is there kind of a next step or a practice beyond noticing, or is it really just, not just, but is it really the awareness over and over again at the time that starts to dismantle?

[30:29]

Yes, I think it's just the awareness. And the awareness can sort of have different levels to it. One of them is to take a stable posture when you notice it coming up. Take a stable posture, standing, walking, sitting, or lying down, and sort of find where that... What did you say? You said grasping of identities? What word did you use? Yes, fixing to that. So notice where in your body that fixing has happened. Usually it's like there's a tightening somewhere. And to notice that and... Try to relax it. And if it won't relax, try to relax around it. And keep your eye on it. And I think that's the main thing. Our mind definitely gets involved when we try to think, where is this coming from and why am I doing this?

[31:32]

And that's fun. We like to do that. And sometimes it feels wonderful. If we hit on something that seems accurate, That's great. I mean, our mind is involved and wants to be involved, but I don't think that's really the way to get to the bottom of it. It's pretty much embedded in our bodies. And it's not necessary to do it that way, even though, yeah, I like it. Patrice? Some of these fear-based reactions, you know, they're so stubborn, and we've worked with them for years or even decades, and sometimes I'll give you an example. I had a situation at work over the past year where I really saw how much suffering my clinging on to, let's say, anger was causing suffering for myself and for other people and for the person I was hanging out and holding on to things to you about how things really need to be and unable to enact my will in the situation.

[32:37]

But then I really noticed how sometimes I would almost rather, not rather, but there's a lack, it's a choice, am I going to practice with the situation or am I just going to endure it and act out? And sometimes I can't really, I wonder if you could speak to the willingness, cultivating the willingness to practice in a situation where you just feel like, you know what, I'd pretty much rather just put my head to that wall and apologize to you, you know, whatever it is. Yeah, very interesting. to see when we actually see ourselves doing that, when we actually see, oh, this is stubbornness. This is attachment to this view and to this, and in some ways I think attachment or even addiction to the feelings that come up with this view. Maybe it's those hormone kind of thing or whatever they say, adrenaline and whatnot that come with anger or with lust or with, you know,

[33:38]

that we really just want to stay there. And part of it is, I think, the hole that's left if we let go of something that we've been identified with. It's very similar to the hole that's left when something leaves us that we've been identified with, like if we lose a job or we lose our health or we lose a partner. There's a hole there, and that same kind of hole appears when we let something go that we've held on to. This is me. This is important to me. So, yeah, I think it's a hard thing to do. Sometimes it's a hard thing to do. And if it's a hard thing to do, then I think the main thing is we haven't fully experienced how much suffering it's causing. so we need another dose of it you know we go back for another okay i'm going to do this again okay so let me stay really right there and see does this how does this feel you know is this fun is this uh yeah does this hurt what's happening that really in some ways practice can be seen as getting in touch with more and more subtle suffering

[35:02]

The way that we cause suffering, and some of it's pretty gross, and we get that, and then after we get that, then we start seeing, oh, and I'm still causing suffering, but in this more subtle way. Thank you. Anything else? Okay. Thank you very much. For more information, visit sfcc.org and click Giving.

[35:49]

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