This podcast is offered by the San Francisco Zen Center on the web at www.sfzc.org. Our public programs are made possible by donations from people like you. So we continue to have members of the Sashin be sick, including the Eno and One of our participants, Patty, had to leave yesterday because of illness. And then there's others who are up and down. And even one of our great horned owls got sick yesterday and had to go to the doctor. I guess Suki, the Humane Society, came and took him or... So thank you to those who noticed what was going on, and I don't know who all was involved, Suki and others.

[01:07]

Mary? Mary and Brian tried to capture it in the box to take it to the society. They were able to, and it's been done for several days. Uh-huh. So we've been turning and using the wind, the element of the wind, to help steady ourselves. And last night I was not able to get back in time to hear Albert's words, but I heard that he brought up the unique breeze of reality again, that wind, reality, breeze came blowing through the Zendo.

[02:15]

So I wanted to talk a little bit about, continue to talk about, use this image for talking about our practice. And before I do that, I just wanted to mention something which I found very interesting. A number of people have talked with me about strategies, not just strategies for sesheen or how to, you know, how to practice in sesheen, but strategies for life or strategies for getting along with family and friends and partners and what strategies. And I realized the word doesn't resonate with me, the word strategy, so I looked it up and I wanted to share this with you. It comes from the word stratagem, which is a military maneuver designed to deceive or surprise an enemy.

[03:24]

And another meaning is a deception or an artifice. I thought, oh yeah, that's something about strategy. Our strategies. And if you look at some of our strategies, you might realize, oh yeah, there is a little deception in there. I hope nobody noticed. Or I hope nobody finds out that, you know. But this is what I need to do to get through Sachin. Some kind of, what is it? deceive or surprise an enemy. And then I was thinking, who is the enemy? Probably me. It seems to be an easy target here. So also strategies. It's the science or art of military command as applied to overall conduct and large-scale military maneuvers.

[04:31]

Now, if we're thinking of our life as a large-scale military... Let's think again. So what, you know, is it strategies or are it skillful means? You know, that's maybe another. What is a skillful action to take good care of ourself, to lead and... a life of clarity and order, and is there any deception involved? And if it's skillful, skillful means, then you can ask, does there need to be deception or surprising the enemy? So thinking about yours, Hashin, and these last couple days, I think we have a couple days left, is that right? And I really feel I realize this is really important to me that already we have, you know, a session that ends midday on Sunday.

[05:41]

We used to try and go way into the afternoon or even the evening, but because it's Sunday and people go to work on Monday, people would just leave or they had to catch a flight. And so we, instead of having drips and drabs of people kind of and then it all unravel, we've made a decision to end, I think, after lunch, all together. So, is it a six and a half day sashim? I don't know, we don't have to count that carefully, but let's not make it a four and a half day sashim, you know, where, gee, I can almost see the end, so I think I won't do this and forget about that, and it's okay if I get on the computer for a while, or, anyway. Let's, to the last, you know, the closing bow, remain in Sashin mind, you know, collected, gathered, gather the mind in one suchness, all together.

[06:43]

And let go of our strategies that we might feel are necessary and come back to what is it that actually supports us, really. And you might be finding right about now that some of you, I'm not predicting all of you, but some sense of, which might be a surprise to yourself, of well-being and joy that isn't really dependent on what you usually think well-being and joy is dependent on. Often we think we're in relation to the things the 10,000 things, the myriad things of the world. We have to be able to get what we want and have things just so and various preferences. But here we are, maybe some discomfort or lots of discomfort, certainly not free to do kind of whatever we want to do all day long.

[07:51]

So it's not dependent on getting what we want or doing what we want where we feel a joy, a maybe quiet joy surprisingly arising and not related to particular things in the environment that we usually think it's dependent upon. And I think this is very powerful powerful actually in our life to realize we can be joyful, settled, calm, feeling of well-being, open to our life without, you know, what advertisements say we're supposed to have in order to feel happy, you know. Like, whatever we're trying to be sold, you know, for our happiness, whether it's things, shiny new things, or gadgets, or wrinkle cream.

[09:04]

I get all sorts of advertisements on my internet stuff about, you know, a 60-year-old housewife in Marin discovered, you know, And this, you know, special wrinkle cream that not... Anyway, they seem to really feel like this will make me really happy. And I'm sort of like Marilyn Monroe, who said she would never get a facelift. May she rest in peace. She never would get a facelift. She wanted people to be able to see that she had lived. Anyway, all those things, when we have that settled kind of being the boss, you know, then we're not so susceptible to being sold, you know, all sorts of stuff that will ensure that we'll then be happy.

[10:09]

And we actually know it doesn't come from that. We can have very, very little and be happier than we've ever been in our life, you know, like camping. or Tassajara for that matter. In the cold, in the rain, in the dark. Never being happier. Eating food you would never think to make for yourself. And from whence cometh this well-being? This is a kind of mystery. This is the maybe... joy and mystery of a practiced life that isn't dependent on everything in the environment being just so. So we discover this ourselves. We discover this from our practice, and you may be discovering it during the Sashim.

[11:10]

So I think these eight wins are when we're related to all the 10,000 things and feeling that they have to be one way or another and not this way or this way. And I did want to say something about the eight wins because I was contrasting the unique breeze of reality and the eight wins as if they were, you know, maybe a dualistic way, which I think provisionally, that's maybe useful. What actually we find out is that the nature of the eight wins is empty. Two, profit and loss, pleasure and pain. There's three Ps, profit and loss, pleasure and pain, praise and blame, and good reputation and bad reputation. You know, when we get those things or keep away from those other things, our happiness does not depend on that. And those are without substantialness either, but they certainly blow strongly.

[12:26]

So I didn't want to have it so separate because our awakening is the emptiness of the eight winds too. So let them blow. So we were talking about Yesterday, emotions and paying attention to our emotions. And emotions, you know, the word itself, emotions, move and move through the body. If we're paying attention, we can watch them move. And there's more I want to say about that, but I want to be sure and get to what I was hoping to get to yesterday. So I'm going to bring this up. which is the koan at the end of the genjo koan. And I'm not sure, did we chant that this morning? The genjo koan? Yesterday, okay. So at the end of this rather long essay, it was actually a letter that Dogen wrote to a lay practitioner.

[13:35]

The genjo koan was a lay practitioner, asked him for words, and he wrote this, genjo koan, what's called genjo koan, which translates as the fundamental point or the issue at hand, it's sometimes translated as. The words genjo koan point to the fundamental point or the issue at hand. It's the actualizing this fundamental point. the genjo is manifest or actualize, and the koan is the ko and the an together are the most particular and individual things, the 10,000 things, and the

[14:44]

and the universal, and that those two are actualized together. So instead of saying all of that about ko-an, it's just the fundamental point of how we exist both as one of the 10,000 things, a thread, one individual thread in the fabric of the ancient brocade, But it's one, each thread makes up the ancient brocade. But the thread just by itself is kind of, what is it, you know? So within the ancient brocade is the ko and the an that were an individual thread and at the same time completely woven in to the ancient brocade. And more forms are being woven into continuously creation, runs her loom and shuttle, weaving the ancient brocade, incorporating the forms of spring.

[15:54]

So, at the end of Genjo Koan, there's a koan, or a teaching story, about Zen Master Bao Che of Mount Mayu. Some of you know this by heart. Zen Master Bao Che of Mount Mayu was fanning himself. a monk approached and said, Master, the nature of wind is permanent and there's no place it doesn't reach. Why then do you fan yourself? Although you understand that the nature of wind is permanent, Bao Che replied, you do not understand the meaning of it reaching everywhere. What is the meaning of it reaching everywhere? asked the monk again. The master just kept fanning himself. The monk bowed deeply. Now this is this koan kind of, at the culmination of the genjo koan fascicle.

[17:06]

And then there's this, the last part, you know, see if I can recite it. Let me ask the monk out deeply. Say it? The actualization of the Buddha way, the... Somebody should get out the chant card for me. Say it? Those of you who know it by heart, just start it. If you say that you could have wind without fanning... I have known this by heart, but it's there somewhere. Okay. The actualization of the Buddha Dharma. The vital path of its correct transmission is like this.

[18:14]

If you say that you do not need to fan yourself because the nature of wind is permanent and you can have wind without fanning, you will understand neither permanence nor the nature of wind. The nature of wind is permanent. Because of that, the wind of the Buddha's house brings forth the gold of the earth and makes fragrant the cream of the long river. And I imagine you've been thinking, those of you who, what, you know, what is the cream of the Long River? Which I'm really happy to tell you about because I'm happy to have found out a little bit about the cream of the Long River. So Zen Master Bao Che of Mount Mayu, Zen Master Bao Che of Mount Mayu was a disciple, let's see, is this okay? disciple of Zen master Matsu, who we've heard about.

[19:21]

And Bao Che, there's several stories about Bao Che. There's no dates for him, so judging by his teacher's dates, which are 700 something to 788, he probably lived in China in the 700s or early 800s. And there's several stories about him. I think he was a famous Zen master, but living on Mount Mayu. And some of the stories that may be about him may be about somebody else because it's a mountain name. They just say Mayu, Zen Master Bauchi. They don't say Bauchi, they say Mayu. So, you know, it's like calling, you know, somebody Tassahara or something. You know, they're... because they lived in practice there a long time, but that might be a number of people, because we don't know the dates. Anyway, so in this, one word in the translation by Ikka's Tanahashi is, the nature of wind is permanent.

[20:30]

The nature of wind is permanent, and there's always a little like, wait a minute, but there's nothing permanent. Another translation, Shohaku Okamura's translation is, the nature of wind is ever-present. The nature of wind is ever-present. Which is, you know, if it's ever-present, you could say, well, that's permanent or eternal. But it doesn't have the connotation of, for me anyway, maybe for you too, that permanence has of that kind of solid, it's there. unmovingly or something. But the nature of witness ever-present for me is ever-arising, ever-dependently co-arising. So you might say the only thing that's permanent is this impermanence, this ever-changingness. There's the permanence of ever-changingness, and I think that's the permanence.

[21:33]

Or ever-presence, I kind of like ever-presence. The nature of wind is ever-present. And there's no place it does not reach. So this wind nature, we've been talking a lot about the wind. So wind nature is kind of a poetic image for awakened nature or Buddha nature. You could think of it as a monk asking about Buddha nature. Buddha nature... awakened nature is ever-present or permanent, eternal, and there's no place it does not reach. In the beginning of Genjo Cohen it says all things, you know, are Buddha nature. When all things are Buddha nature, there is, and they name all the things, a bunch of things, birth and death, sentient beings and Buddhists.

[22:35]

So the monk is asking about the nature of his own life and our shared existence and the nature of all things. So it's ever-present and there's no place it doesn't reach. And like I said yesterday, the Dharma is abundant in all of us, but it's not manifest without practicing. And Bautje replies to this question, why are you fanning yourself? Why do you have to do this if there's wind all over? There's the wind nature, the Buddha nature is all over. Why do you have to do anything to create it? That's a good question, don't you think? This is pretty fundamental question when we look at sort of the history of Buddhism, if you want to, or Dogen, our founder in Japan, this very fundamental question, this teaching of coming from the teaching of Buddha's enlightenment, all things without exception, all things, the great earth, all beings in the great earth are completely and thoroughly enlightened.

[23:58]

The nature of wind is ever-present. How come you have to work at it? Do anything. Just relax. So, Bauche replies in a very kind way, because in the commentary it says, Dogen actually didn't feel this way. Bauche says, although you understand that the nature of wind is ever-present, you don't understand the meaning of it everywhere, reaching everywhere. And in the commentary, Shohaku's commentary on this, he says Dogen actually felt this monk, he didn't even understand that the nature of wind was. He didn't even understand the nature of wind was ever-present or permanent. But he spoke that way probably as a skillful means. Not as a strategy, but a skillful means so that the monk would kind of hang in there with him probably.

[25:05]

If you said, you don't understand anything, get out of here. That might have been another skillful means for another monk. But for this one, he said very kindly, although you understand that the nature of wind is permanent or ever-present, you do not understand the meaning of it reaching everywhere. So then the monk asks, well then, what is the meaning of it reaching everywhere? If the nature, if our awakened nature permeates everything, shouldn't that be enough? Why then do we need to sit in painful postures day after day examining our life. It's such a lot of work.

[26:07]

It takes such effort. It's so painful. Isn't the teaching that it's all originally enlightened? What gives here? And this was Jogan's big question. So Zen Master Bao Che, when the monk says, well, then what is the meaning of it reaching everywhere? And then Zen Master Bao Che just kept fanning himself. This is, you know, this is why I love Zen so much, you know, this kind of a story. Because he didn't argue with them or get into philosophical things, you know, about Buddha nature or original enlightenment or he just fully functioned. Why was he fanning himself in the first place? You know, it gets very hot and muggy and humid in China.

[27:12]

I don't know, I imagine it was a hot day and he's fanning himself. It's kind of a natural functioning And the Buddha nature goes there too. The Buddha nature is in that functioning. So to think the nature of wind is permanent and we can have wind, if you think we can have wind without fanning, if you think you can understand and fully function and manifest without practicing, that's a misunderstanding. Based on a kind of intellectual... Do you get the feeling of how that's a kind of concept about if it's this way, then it hasn't sunk into the marrow, you know, of what it is to fully function in this life?

[28:16]

So, the... Our full-functioning Buddha nature is a practicing Buddha. We chant every day about the Dharmakaya, which is the reality body, truth body, the Sambhogakaya, which is the practice body, or the joy and bliss body of practice, which, when I was mentioning about this joy arising, we might say that's... Sambhogakaya Buddha right here, you know. And then the nirmanakaya Buddha is the dharmakaya Buddha taking form as a human being like Chakyamuni Buddha or the Buddhas and ancestors. This is the transformation body or the emanation body. This is just awakened nature taking form to help beings. Dharmakaya taking form as nirmanakaya. These are the bodies of Buddha.

[29:25]

And then Dogen kind of adds a fourth body called the practice body. Which in Japanese I think is Gyoji Butsu. Anyway, I think it is. I'm not sure. But there's practice body of Buddha which is a fully functioning. The Buddha without practicing is not the Buddha. Buddha nature is practicing nature. So we can get stuck in a kind of conceptual, philosophical thing, I think, which brings us into lots of brambles and quicksand. which Fukanzo Zanki brings up too, which we've chanted this week, I think, the way is basically perfect and all-pervading.

[30:35]

How could it be contingent on practice and realization? This is the same question. If it's all awakened, then how come it's, what is this practice, realization thing, practice? So this, you know, to almost feel that as as a story, as a concept of the way things are, which can also be an excuse for not doing hard work, practicing continuously. A kind of, oh yeah, it's a kind of, it's all one man, you know that. so I don't need to take care of my life in a certain way because it's all one anyway. It's all okay. This is a story of delusion.

[31:41]

So... He just was functioning, just fan, just practice. And the wind of the Buddha's house, the wind of the Buddha's family house, this is another kind of wind, this is the mimitsu no kafu, which we talk about, the kafu is the, fu is wind, the wind of the family house is the, mitsu is kind of intimacy, Actually Patty's name, Patty who left the sesshin's name is compassion, intimacy, jimitsu. So this intimate practice together is what sets the breeze, the wind of the family house, refreshing everything. The wind of the family house. We all together create the wind of the family house or the family way

[32:51]

And there's different families, you know. This particular family way that was passed down to us has a kind of gentle quality to it, I think. I think there are other schools, other lineages that you can read about that may be very inspiring at times that include lots of shouting and hitting and... pulling people off their seat and throwing them against, slamming doors on their legs. They were wonderful stories. And Suzuki Roshi exhibited some shouting and hitting, too. You probably know the story of where he kind of really beat someone repeatedly when he asked him a question in a lecture about Probably the same of this question.

[33:54]

It was very similar. Anyway, it was during the Vietnam War, and there was a demonstration going on, and his question was something like, there's a demonstration going on down on Market Street, and I think it was Sashin, and what are we doing? Why aren't we doing something? Why aren't we sitting? Why are we just sitting here? It's a kind of flip of this. And Suzuki Roshi, just like... you don't understand what we're doing here. I can't even remember what he said. I wasn't there. I just heard about it. And that wind, that story goes on, just like this wind. This story's been told for a thousand years about Matsu, Fanny himself. So Suzuki Hiroshi, it's like, what we're doing, this practice, and the, you know, You know, the practicing to save all beings.

[35:01]

You know, do not take this lightly. Anyway, some people like the story of Suzuki Roshi. And it was like not the usual, not the usual Suzuki Roshi activity. But he was ready at that moment to function like that. if that was what, that wasn't a strategy. You know, that was meeting intimately, skillfully this person. And those people, you know, maybe it was this person, but for the sake of everybody else in the room who had the same question. And this person received this, but it wasn't just about that person. Anyway, Suzuki Roshi, the wind of that family house, it's usually... Not so much hitting and yelling and shouting. And if it was that way, maybe different people would be here in the room.

[36:08]

But you're here in the room. And this is the wind of this family house. This is affinity. So the wind of the Buddha's family house, what do we say? but characterized, you know, the characterization of this school is total engagement in an immovable sitting, right? This is part of the wind of this family house and the wind of Bauche, you know, this family house is practiced ceaselessly Practice Buddha. Characterized by total engagement in a movable sitting. So this second part where it says the actualization of the Buddha Dharma

[37:28]

to actualize it, not just think about it. And the vital path, this is a path to walk of its correct transmission, is like this. If we're going to pass it on to anyone, to all beings, all those who live with us and speak with us, it's like this. If you say that you do not need to fan yourself, you don't need to practice because you're already, it's all one man, everything's already awakened, then, and you can have wind without fanning, you will understand neither the ever-presentness, you will understand neither permanence, nor the nature of wind. It will be hard to understand the dependent, co-arising, ever-present nature, your own nature, will be kind of stuck.

[38:42]

The nature of wind is ever-present, and because of that, the wind of the Buddha's house brings forth the gold of the earth and makes fragrant the cream of the long river. So it brings forth the gold in the earth. You know, gold, there's a lot of political things about gold, you know, but gold, you know, when you bring it out of the earth, it's not, it needs working. It needs to be heated and certain things have to be separated from it through heat. like the heat in your knees, you know, that will separate out the, is it dross? You know, it needs to go into the crucible to find the gold, right? The gold of the earth. And to make fragrant the cream of the Long River, this character for this cream is called...

[39:50]

So raku is this substance, which is a substance that was a fermented kind of milk product that was often mixed with herbs and fermented like kefir or some kind of yogurty... It was highly esteemed as a food for healing and well-being, this so-raku, and used as a preservative and a remedy. So the wind of the Buddha's house brings forth the gold of the earth. The wind of the Buddha's house is this devotion to sitting and continuous Buddha practice. This will bring forth the gold of the earth, bring forth the gold of each one of our lives, the gold that is there, but it has to be worked. And it makes fragrant this cream, this so-raku of the long river.

[41:07]

And the long river is another wonderful image. kind of dovetailing with our image of the Milky Way. The long river in Chinese refers to the river of stars, which we call Milky Way. But it also refers to our life, is the long river. So it makes fragrant, the cream, or the healing, you know, the healing properties that will be a help to all beings makes fragrant this healing substance of our long life, or however long our life is. So, this last line, which is so poetic, we don't even know what it means, but just to know a little bit, to imagine

[42:09]

the wind of the Buddhist house, the wind of our own Buddha nature and this particular thing that's being offered and transmitted of continuous practice will bring forth the gold of the earth, of our, our earth, our touching earth life practice, bringing forth the gold and make fragrant you know, our vow to help all beings, really. We may have this vow, how will we manifest it and actualize it? Make it fragrant. There's, after this koan where it says, the monk bow deeply, there's another line that's been left off of a number of translations where the bauche then says, So the monk asked these questions and then he bowed.

[43:13]

And then he said, even if I have a thousand monks, what is the merit of those monks if they don't have the actual function? It's kind of like the clock, you know. What help will it be if it's not truly functioning and set, you know, the time? So the wanting to have... fully functioning, fully functioning, you know, beings who are a, you know, gift to the world. So I think I feel kind of a closure there around this story and just turning it this way. So I think I won't bring up some of these other things to bring up. But I will ask if you have any questions or things you would like to bring up.

[44:16]

Yes. Thank you. Yeah, sometimes it's not a good idea to know too soon, just to let the images play, you know, and sometimes they feel like they get a hold of you. It's like, what is the cream of the Long River? Actually, there's other translations where it says the cheese of the Long River. That was a really, it was like, really? The cheese? But then when I read about what the character was, that it's this product, you know, this dairy product that... You know, it might have been really thick that day, and it was more like cheese.

[45:16]

Yeah. I actually saw it as curds and whey, too, in another. So, thank you. Yes, Susan? I just wondered if you could say anything about the joy factor of the active factors of sibling. And I wonder if I find a joy factor. I know that sometimes we don't deal with that. But it seems like it's very important I did something to encourage us both in truly one practice.

[46:23]

I don't know. The relationship about how we can't experience our government as something that we're doing that we have to do in order to X, Y, Z. In order to realize what we're doing. Is there a thing? The joy, yes. So we've been talking a lot about attention, you know, and just in a very simple way, coming back to what's there. And if we notice that we're thinking, I should be feeling joy, or maybe everybody else. probably feeling joy and I'm not. So to come back to whatever it is, so if it's not full of joy, if it's struggle and sadness and anger, whatever it is, to add on top of it that I shouldn't be feeling this way or I should be feeling some other way will be...

[47:41]

you know, a kind of hurting ourself actually, or an unkind. It becomes unkind. So we can't legislate joy, you know. And there is, you know, the joy, this may sound strange, but there can be a joy in our suffering by being so intimate with it, so close with it, that it almost turns into joy right there in the middle by being willing to be that intimate with whatever's happening. Then there's freedom in that. There's freedom in that. I think the non-freedom or what feels like non-freedom is those thoughts and judgments and commentaries that are saying or expecting that we're supposed to feel differently than we do. Or if we had joy yesterday, oh, how come I don't have it today?

[48:50]

Where we're bringing in through our thinking past and future and comparative mind and gauging thoughts and views, and that in itself is suffering right there. We just create. However, if we can just stay with this is how it is, and oh, I'm expecting it to be something else. You know, staying with that is not being caught in the expectation. Um... Coming back to I made an agreement or I want to do this, I want to, might be a little different than you're expected to or maybe it's the same.

[49:52]

I think the expected thing is what I'm talking about is I shouldn't be feeling what I'm feeling. I should be having some other experience and then comparing it with either a past experience or the period before that in itself is suffering and doesn't feel very free and also doesn't feel very like you're not the boss, you know, because you're supposed to be somewhere else. You're supposed to be, and yet you're this. So if we can stay with whatever it is, I think we can actually find joy there, but we're not looking for joy. Say that again. Yeah. And there may be circumstances where that doesn't work for some reason.

[50:54]

You have stomachache or whatever. I think when we leave the schedule, that's why part of the practice is to make some kind of communication. Because often, if it's just running away, you know, is that really how we want to live our life? We can ask ourselves, or somebody else can ask you, the Eno. might say do you really want to run away from your life but they probably won't that might be a good thing for the Eno to ask but you can ask yourself is this escaping do I not want to face something or not and sometimes you can't tell and if you can't tell go to the Zendo and that's kind of my because if you can't tell if it's not clear that you need to You know, you need to go home. And that there's some kind of power there, actually, and strength.

[51:55]

Vietnam War and obviously I wasn't there so I don't know who he was or where he was coming from and how to ask the question but I think to myself it's a good question and it deserves to be and I kind of feel like maybe that wasn't the appropriate response and Perhaps there was some ego, like, this is the direction of art. Yes. So, you know, telling that story, there's certain stories that are koans in and of themselves. It's kind of a koan from the Zen mind temple record, you know.

[53:21]

And they're still being written, you know. So this... In the same way as when we read the koans, we also weren't there in that monastery when Rinzai hit somebody or, you know. But we read about it and we think, I don't think I could stay in a temple like that. Or, you know, we have some idea like that. I think in this case, this was a close student. It wasn't just a guest who happened to be a lecturer. It was a close student. It was a devoted student who's still practicing, doesn't live in the Bay Area anymore. And, you know, I imagine Suzuki Hiroshi knew well his issues and what he was, and this was his response. Now, the people, I remember in a koan from the Green Gulch record with Reb in a class had an encounter with, I think I can say this on tape, with Mea-san, who, old student of Reb's, you know,

[54:28]

I think she was Dharma-transmitted at the time, and they went, not went at it, but he was very, you know, really direct with her. And Maya hung in there, and it was kind of beautiful if you knew Maya and knew. But there was a guest, actually she was doing Elder Hostel here. You know, Elder Hostel, it's, you know, older citizens, probably my age. come and do retreats and different workshops and things. So we had an elder hostel here. They had come to the class, and this lady came up to me and said, why was he so mean to that poor girl, that poor lady or that poor woman? From her point of view, this was not kind. This was not compassionate. She didn't understand anything. She didn't understand their relationship, where it was coming from, what it was manifesting. So... I think it is a question you can have.

[55:31]

Was there anything extra there? Was it skillful? Were people confused after that? Or what? So it's been told. And so I... I welcome you to turn it, you know, but also realizing many of these stories come out of the intimacy of practice together. People practicing, you know, we get the end of it, we get the last thing where then they were awakened, you know, but nobody tells the stories of the 10,000 sweating horses, you know, all the work and you know, together, practicing together over time, closely. So... But I think for you to have your questions about it is fine.

[56:36]

Yeah. About it. I feel... the hitting that he hit this person repeatedly in, or about what I said. I think it's like a power dynamic. it was in front of the group and maybe to tell that story to me, it's like, well, like I said, the guy had a good question. And I get the whole story about individuals, but then why are we telling the story to a whole bunch of people if it's only relevant to these people in a very intimate way with a very intimate contact?

[57:54]

Then why are we telling the story? Does that, and does that story want privilege, not want to then practice over social and political action? As me, I'm sitting here right now, and I fully honor people that are doing something else, like taking another action. Like you talk about people, we develop different ways. And there's not always enough time to be a student and a political activist. I don't know. I don't care. Yeah. Yeah.

[58:55]

Well, maybe I didn't. tell the story carefully enough or didn't use the actual words of the question, you know, because, you know, Suzuki Roshi had come out of the Second World War, had lived through that, and he was, as best as he could be, you know, not a pacifist, I don't think that was the word exactly, but, you know, he had lived through that horror. So I don't think it privileges one against the other. I think he was, I mean, I don't think I ever heard that that was what he was teaching not to, I mean, lots of people demonstrated then. It may have been that particular question at that time. So, you know, my not being careful enough with the story, I think I was illustrating that sometimes

[60:00]

you know, like Avalokiteshvar with thousand hands, with all these different implements, lassoes and hammers and vajras and books. So you use, you can use any of those when needed. Sometimes it's the flower, sometimes it's a lasso, you know. So that wide functioning, full functioning, not, you can only do these kinds of things, you can only, you can't, whatever's necessary, that's skill and means. So at that moment, that's what he did. At other moments, different. So, yeah, I don't think it was privileging formal practice over expressing political views. I don't think that was the teaching as much as understanding trying to understand what we're doing here, which is a good question. What is our practice?

[61:04]

Yeah. We could talk more, thank you. Yes, Matt? Could you talk a little bit louder? You enjoyed... Yes. [...] But now I found myself a little bit of an unexplainable hostility for them. And I just, I wanted to stop now. And the other part of that is that it's really awesome to be gratitude for people who help me learn them.

[62:27]

And And it's the kind of thing that really helped to the rest of my life. But normally in my life, when I learn something new, it's something I can talk about to someone, or write about to someone, or write about myself, or generally all these other things that we've now said that we're not going to do what we're here. And I was wondering if you have some advice about the time template. Is that my desire to kind of be grateful or to be feeling into a lifestyle, or how I can kind of share that over past 50 years?

[63:27]

Thank you so much for letting us know how it's been going for you. And I got choked up too when you told me about your neighbor waiting so that you could tie the knot together. That kind of awareness of what you were going through and wordlessly just compassionate action. So simple. And You know, your big turnaround from terror to loving the forms, and it's wonderful. Maybe you could do a little video. I don't mean to make a joke of it. Actually, it's just beautiful, that turn right in the middle of the sachin. I don't have any advice, but that action from your neighbor, you know, that has entered you and the gratitude, that is like a touchstone almost.

[64:45]

It's what action can you be that aware of the needs of those around you? It's a kind of diffuse awareness. You're not staring over at people and thinking, oh, now they need this. It's a diffuse awareness that's open and allowing and paying attention to the myriad details of a life. And, you know, there's this question, Avalokiteshvara has a thousand eyes. She has a thousand hands and an eye on each hand. And the koan is, which one is the true eye? You know, that true eye of compassion, that's a kind of vow, actually. So when you have that vow and you're paying attention to your life, actions will flow from that.

[65:47]

That's functioning Buddha, functioning Bodhisattva. The actions of body, speech, and mind will flow from that vow. So there's no formula, you know. other than your own vowing, which isn't a formula. But what happened in that oryoki was, you know, it turned your life around, right? And, you know, others have another story. Like my story is someone, you know, helping me to take refuge in putting the gamashio away and brushing off the gamashio with a little brush. getting every little particle of sesame into the, and just please do this and concentrate on that. That was so kind to give me that job where I was, what I needed.

[66:52]

I needed that kind of refuge. So you will pass this on to someone else. And maybe you'll pass it on and you'll never even know because you just are compassionate action. You're not trying to help anybody. You're just fully functioning. And I imagine your neighbor wasn't thinking, oh, this is really going to, you know, get him. He's going to really feel good about it. No. It just came out of the whole fabric of life together. So that's a practice life. Just like that. About Vietnam and the opposition to it.

[67:59]

People here, Jean, excuse me. It must have been about 10 years ago. I was here for a January intensive that Red was leading. I know it must have been about 10 years ago because it was just before the war, that war started. Oh, that one. The current one, I think. One of the current ones. So, It was January 2003, and there was, so we were here for three weeks, I had flown from Ireland, like 6,000 watts, and it wasn't in Sashi, but it was during that intensive, and there was gonna be a demonstration, a market search, against the war. And, you know, I've taken part in many,

[69:01]

protests in Ireland, which is a neutral country, except it allows U.S. flyovers to refuel the German airport, which is a source of much pain for many of us. And one of the really inspiring things we got left was seeing that photo of him at the nuclear site. It was such a a beacon of compassion and, I thought, engage Buddhism. So there was a request that people be allowed, leave gringos to go to Market Street for the day to take part in the demonstration. And Rev said, I think he said no, but he said this is not part of this intensity. You could go kind of without, so this is part of the Green Girl's record, some of the people here.

[70:08]

I remember the people who were here. I don't remember exactly what he said, but it was like, people didn't go with his blessing. And I was in such a quandary. Would I go with even friends? And we felt like I did. It was terrible. being unleashed. Oh, would I stay here? And I thought about it and thought about it. And I stayed here. Because it seemed to me that something about what he was teaching was that if everybody protested, then there's always division. We're all fighting. against the people who are fighting. Whereas if everybody's staff, then everyone would be sitting there.

[71:13]

A universal life would be more confusing. Yeah. Well, sometimes we sit and sometimes we protest and sometimes we do very creative other things and, you know, it's, What are the causes and conditions that are right and right for you now in your practice life? And the bodhisattva way and political action, social, environmental peace and justice, all that is just one life. But we do have to make choices because what we're going to do today, you know, or this afternoon, And you made that choice at that time. So I think those can be skillful. They can also be unskillful. Those kinds of actions, activism can be skillful and unskillful.

[72:19]

I think we know. So what is, for you or for each of us, how do we want to participate in the world? And it's a big question. It's a big question for each of us, I think. That nobody can solve it for us. You don't look satisfied. I don't remember if you spoke about it. Do you remember? I don't remember. You know, I don't remember. I don't remember the whole thing. Maybe I wasn't there. I think I felt disappointed. I think that that was... I felt like, no, this is not what I expect from you. There you go.

[73:19]

The expecting, you know. I expect, because you had seen the picture, that we would be lock, stock, and barrel on our way and actually... He used another one of the, you know, of the thousand arms. He used a book or whatever, you know. So it's almost like that gap between what we expect and then not having our expectations met. That's painful. Yes, here you are. And... will be ordained on January 5th, 2013, 10 years later. Yeah. By Paul Haller. Yeah. Albert. Well, this brings up some strong feeling for me, too, with this question and what Gene said. And it's colored by two things.

[74:23]

One, knowing that Suzuki Roshi not only lived through World War II, but... that he was one of the few Zen priests who was quietly opposing the Japanese military effort. And that cost him dearly as a Zen priest when the whole Zen establishment sort of rallied around the military effort. And that, you know, he had, until he came here and really brought at least this lineage to America, He had very low status, largely because of that. He suffered because he opposed. He sort of put himself on the line. So that fact and the fact that odds are really good that I was one of the people protesting in San Francisco when that guy was getting hit. That's what I was doing. And yet it really feels, I'm so glad that Suzuki Roshi did that.

[75:27]

And I'm glad that Rep responded as he did. Because, you know, actualizing the fundamental point is protesting against the war. Actualizing the fundamental point is sitting Zazen. Actualizing the fundamental point isn't sitting Zazen and saying, oh, maybe I should be protesting against the war. Anyway. I'm sorry. It brought up really strongly. Thank you. Okay. I just want to say something. I actually said that Could you say again what makes you feel safe?

[76:45]

Did you say messy? Oh, the discussion. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh, uh-huh. And that makes you feel more safe, that there's room for, there's allowing of messiness. Yeah, well, I appreciate that, yeah. And, you know, this last thing that Albert said is reverberating, the actualizing the fundamental point is, you know, it's what we've been talking about all week, actually. Doing completely what you're doing is actualizing the fundamental point. So thinking about the person who asked the question and having practiced with him at Tassajara, I'm remembering a kind of an issue, you know, that might have been coming up right then and there about do what you're doing.

[77:52]

This is what we're doing. I don't know. So I appreciate, Deirdre, you're bringing up that you feel safe with a free-ranging experience range conversation and that had been a point in the practice period at one point some people feeling we weren't allowed somehow or it was being messiness was being kept from the room or something so yeah sit with doubt a lot of resistance and used me as a positive form, which would be very out of character, really surprising and interesting.

[79:04]

Then I had an experience yesterday through where I sort of really like forms. And of course, I don't know if they do like the book, but I get so much after this in some way. And then I started to engage with forms. Well, I think Doubt is a big part of our practice, and there's various kinds of doubts. There's the doubt that encourages us to stay with it, ask questions, be aware of what's coming up for it. And then there's a doubt called corrosive doubt, which is more discouraging and blaming and, I don't know, where we don't engage in a useful way.

[80:15]

So we have to know, I think, When there's doubt, is it corrosive or is it the kind that will actually support us to practice more? So doubt is really important. Yes. Can you just try to speak so that The people in the back can hear, too. In the movie, in the Good Morning Vietnam, many people saw it. In the middle of the movie, there's an attack. And you're seeing that people are burning, and the people are blown up, and animals are dying. And in the background, Louis Armstrong sings that this is a wonderful world. And that's what Albert, I think that's what he meant, that the world is what it is.

[81:17]

It's all just expressing the fundamental point. And the Quran is for me to understand and accept it. There's no, any point we can look at, somebody's point is always wrong. Like somebody's always tried. But to see it as a totality beyond a lot of understanding, we have to just accept it. And as a Suzuki or Shi, Thank you, Andrew. Thank you. let us not forget the human side of all of our teachers and all of us, all the Buddhas and ancestors, and there are mistakes made.

[82:25]

There's the story of Hakuin who was sent a student from another teacher who said this student is ripe and a good student, and Hakuin really kind of treated him in a way that broke, the student kind of broke. He had a kind of breakdown and ended up being just a kind of quiet monk who just moved around the monastery doing a few odd jobs. He had been sent as a young, you know, this student is ripe, I think. And he regrets that. How come at the end of his life he made this mistake with his student? He treated him harshly, thinking it was skillful means, but it didn't work. It was off. So this can happen too.

[83:28]

I think we have to realize that mistakes, there's not infallibility here. And the other point about, you know, I remember Katahiri Roshi saying something about everything in the universe is perfect just the way it is, something like that. And I just thought that, you know, no, no. What about, how can you say that? What about the war and suffering? What do you mean? And I really felt like I had, about doubt, I had to, I... I couldn't accept that kind of with an everyday mind, like, yeah, everything's just fine. What was he talking about? I had to, I want to discover that. So, this is our koan, right? This is our koan of, you know, the interconnectedness of all things and everything is Buddha fields.

[84:37]

You know, you can read those, hear those teachings. And then, what is this suffering then? How do we, how can we practice with that? Yeah. I always see the world and smiling. Looking at the world and smiling, that's right. I see hands are raised. It's about quarter to 12 somehow. And let's see, we have Kelly and Naomi. Maybe just those two questions and then we'll end if that works. I just got a little nervous.

[86:27]

Thank you, Kelly, for noting that and noting your discomfort with that. And I didn't hear that. myself, but maybe others did, and I don't think that was being said. Thank you. Naomi. And one of the things, and partially because I'm curious about this incident, it's still like, it's stuck in me, that the incident of his wife being a member

[87:46]

They played well at least that he would like to stay in the couple. And he had been, you know, . And he said that it was . Yeah. So many of you already know this story that Naomi just told and some of you are maybe just hearing it for the first time. It's very extremely powerful and sad and you know...

[88:50]

I think in other sessions, this Rohatsu session, because it's a Suzuki Roshi memorial that takes place during Rohatsu, usually, you know, the third and the fourth, there's some time sometimes spent on Suzuki Roshi's last moments and his life, and this story has come up also, you know, and trying to understand it in the widest way possible, you know, so this was his mistake. and then all the causes and conditions for his thinking in that way, you know, which branches out and flows out in ever, like, I remember he was born by his mother-in-law and his wife, and for me it was like part of the whole story is the place of women in Japanese society, you know, and... who you listen to, who you don't listen to, all sorts of things.

[89:56]

It's all there. It's the karmic world. It is Suzuki Roshi's judgment and mistake and all the conditions that brought him to think in that way or not listen. So it's kind of vast and... It is a story, you know, of... When I didn't know about it, and when I found out, I remember thinking, how can Suzuki Roshi laugh and be happy? And, you know, I really... The fact that he was who he was when I met him, you know, knowing this in his background, this trauma, this terrible, terrible... unspeakable, you know. And sometimes when I read his writings or the transcriptions, he'll say, you know, sometimes you will see the only thing you can do is sit.

[91:06]

That's, you can't, you think you could lie in your bed in the dark and pull the covers up and that you'll be okay. It's not enough. The only thing you can do is sit. So his taking refuge in this practice, you know, that's conveyed over and over and over. And it's not... It comes from the depths of human suffering. I was thinking... It might be nice. We have 1215 service. Do we have time to take a little walk out in the garden, do you think? Let's end lecture and put our shoes on and go for a little walk and come back for noon service, okay? Thank you for listening to this podcast offered by the San Francisco Zen Center.

[92:08]

Our programs are made possible by the donations we receive. Please help us to continue to realize and actualize the practice of giving by offering your financial support. For more information, visit sfcc.org and click Giving. May we fully enjoy the Dharma.

[92:30]

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