This podcast is offered by the San Francisco Zen Center on the web at www.sfzc.org. Our public programs are made possible by donations from people like you. I'm very happy to see everyone this morning. And Leslie, I'm so happy to see you again across from me, as you always have been for so many years. I hadn't planned on talking about this, but as I was bowing, something came up, so I thought I'd mention it. When I was up in the city, March 20th was my mother's, the anniversary of her death. It happens to be the spring equinox. And talking with my sisters, they mentioned to me that they had made a donation to the...

[01:02]

the Girl Scouts on the occasion of the 100th anniversary of the Girl Scouts, the founding of the Girl Scouts. And my mother was, her volunteer work that she did for many, many years was with Girl Scouting. And she was president of the St. Croix Valley Council and on the national board, this kind of thing. So I don't know how long it took while I was bowing for this celebration. series of thoughts about Girl Scouting. I think it's the creed, maybe, of Girl Scouts. A Girl Scout is like the Bodhisattva. A Girl Scout is a friend to all and a sister to every other Girl Scout. And I thought, oh, that was very early on that I repeated that, to be a friend to all. It's like the chuseau is a friend to everybody.

[02:02]

That's their practice equally. And that was this Girl Scout bow, or I don't know what they called it. Any Girl Scouts here who know what that was? Friend to all and a sister trip. The pledge. Girl Scout pledge. First you were a brownie. First you were a brownie, yes. First you were a brownie. And the brownie pledge was different. which I'll think of later. But anyway, then the other sort of cascade of split-second thoughts was going to Girl Scout camp. And at the end of camp, you just had fun at camp. You did all the different things, the swimming and canoeing and boating and hiking and all the different activities. And at the end, they would give you, the counselors would give you all the different badges that you had earned. like my swimming badge, but I was just going to the swimming. But I had done a running dive, a standing dive, and a racing dive.

[03:04]

I had done treading water for a certain length of time. I had swum out to the floating dock thing and back. I had done boating. I had tipped the canoe and gotten back to shore. I had done all these things. But I had just done it for the fun of it. It wasn't to earn badges. I wasn't thinking about earning my canoeing badge. We were just doing tippy canoe, which was the afternoon's activity. Anyway, so then I was thinking, this all happened just like this. Then I was thinking, here we are in practice period, and if we were to write out what badges we had to earn. And I was thinking of all the ceremonies we did. we did a one-day sitting, we did an entering, we did an opening, we did, you know, Bodhidharma comes from the West, Mahapajapati, Bodhi, Dogen's birthday, Paranirvana, it's going to be Buddha's birthday. We did three full moon ceremonies.

[04:05]

It was just like, we could write them all down and we could get badges for, I don't know what, Bodhisattva, practice period badges. Anyway. So I thought I'd let you know about that. But we're just doing it for the fun of it. We're not trying to earn any badges, right? We're just, it's so much fun to do oreoche meals. Just opening our bowls and chanting is a lot of fun. Then we get this food, and then we get to eat it. I mean, we get to eat it too, you know? Oh, we're having so much fun. Here in the Valley. Yeah, badge sash. We had a badge sash, which we used to call a sag bash. And the badges were just beautiful. I don't know who designed them. They were like for the canoeing badge. It was the north woods of Minnesota, a beautiful lake and pines and this beautiful canoe.

[05:11]

In a little, in this, you know, it was embroidered. They're beautiful, beautiful badges. somebody threw away my sat bash. It was like gone from either my mother got rid of that box or something. Anyway, so let's see, what were we talking about yesterday? Yeah, yeah. There was a tulip that the Anja cut before I went away. I left on the 15th or 14th, 15th, and there was this purple tulip and a leaf, and the tulip kind of was nestled in the leaf. And I think Marsha said to Nada, that tulip's going to grow. And I thought, oh, that's interesting, because it's a cut tulip just stuck in water. Well, yesterday we got rid of the tulip.

[06:12]

Where's Nada? And the tulip was like the life force in that tulip. even though it was cut and in water, you know, not growing, it grew up, I'd say three inches maybe, is absolutely amazing. So I just appreciate it, the life force, you know, that's, even in something that's been cut, you know, or there's so much life force, so even if we feel down at the knees or something, that's kind of a strong image, but, you know, having difficulties and out of our native soil or something, there is so much life force in each of us and possibilities to grow under difficult circumstances. So here we sit in Sesheen.

[07:15]

Before we get back to where we left off yesterday, there's a couple of things I wanted to mention. One is just reading a few snippets from the Suzuki Roshi lectures where he mentioned Sansui Kyo. I don't know if people have read them. They've been in the study hall. Have people read them? Some people maybe? No? And there's Sansui Kyo snippets, but also some other helpful things during Sashin. I think this one might have been during a Sashin. No, well, July 24th, 1971, Tassajara. So... So maybe this follows from what I've been talking about, about earning badges.

[08:24]

If you think zazen is the only way to obtain perfect enlightenment, then that is, again, wrong practice. That is not real practice. So you should also forget all about your practice. Or you should practice zazen until zazen practice becomes your own Practice like your own, your eyes. Your eyes are your nose. Even though you have it, you don't realize it. You don't feel you have it. But you have it, you know. How you can have this kind of matured practice instead of lazy practice, you know. Always sitting on black cushion or always sitting with mosquitoes or false pride. There's all these laughter things in here. You should know that is not actually real practice. But why we practice so rigidly is to acquire that kind of practice, little by little.

[09:34]

The rigid practice of always sitting on your black cushion. That's not the real practice. However, while you're doing it that way, little by little, the real you acquire. Real practice, while you are doing rigid practice, sometimes is fighting with the dragon, you know, and sometimes bothered by many ideas to come. Anyway, you have to try to sit. While you are sitting in that way, little by little, without knowing when you acquired the power, you will have, you know, more and more, you will own zazen. or zazen will become your own. And you do not feel you are practicing zazen. Even though you are sitting, you don't feel you are practicing zazen. You do not feel so much difference because zazen, practice and everyday activity, the feeling doesn't...

[10:44]

different so much because you are very much familiar with your practice and Zazen become your own power, or not even power even, because you do not feel you have power. So this struggle we have, our fighting with the dragon, our fighting with all these thoughts that come and all the thoughts of how we're not, you know, we don't have what it takes, or that kind of laziness that the Shuso was speaking about the first day. You know, I don't have what it takes, I can't do this. That kind of thinking of that as laziness rather than that's the truth. and to struggle with that, struggle with the dragons, struggle with our ideas, and continue to sit, coming back, coming back, coming back, and little by little, without knowing it, we become so familiar with our practice that it becomes like our own.

[11:55]

Every day activity in zazen practices, work, practice, zazen, it doesn't, we can't make so much distinction anymore. And he calls this a kind of power, but not even power because you don't even feel it as power. It's just matured practice. I wanted to offer that. And then from there, he actually brings up about that poem that I read yesterday about, you know, where you don't feel it as anything special. He's talking about this power that you don't even feel as power because it's just who you are. And he brings up this power that we don't realize in relation to going to the mountains and water and sightseeing places in China.

[12:55]

It's kind of a long thing about lakes with lots of water and Sometimes they're filled. Anyway, it's beautiful. People want to see it. All over China, they want to see the lakes and worship the beautiful mountain. And it's very beautiful. And then he says, and here's this other translation of the poem, I at last come to the place, but not so much interesting sight I have. When the water come, it's beautiful. When rainy days... It's beautiful. That's all. Nothing special. So, and I think the same with our practice. It's not only these landscapes, but we don't feel. It's just who we are. We can't stand outside of it and see how special or power. Even though, you know, you are tired and

[13:58]

and feel you don't have strength, actually you have strength, your practice matures, but actually you gained nothing. That is real practice. If you think you gained something, that's not real practice, you know. So when you think you have enough practice every day and enough problems to exist every day, then that's real practice. And here's something I wanted to mention about breathing. And it's... in relation to the river flowing and not flowing. So when we say mountain moves, we know ourselves are also moving.

[15:03]

There's just a lot here. I don't want to just keep reading and reading. So people say that mountain does not flow and the river flows, but this is one-sided. This is already not true. Why it is not true is because it looks like so. And you say mountain does not move, but mountain actually is moving. The river goes, but actually if river goes, mountain is going. And if river stays, actually mountain will stay. It's our thinking mind who thinks mountain... and river, mountain does not move and river is moving. That is our thinking mind. And when we talk about things, we forget our subject and talk about things, the objective world. Our practice can move everything and our practice can stop everything from moving because our practice includes everything.

[16:24]

The way I exist here is the way everything exists with me. So actually how you feel, if you feel quite naturally free from the idea of self, for instance, if you feel your breathing, if you feel your beating of your heart, then it means you will feel the whole world. It is part of you, you know. Not even part. Your breathing is the breathing of the whole universe. which includes you yourself. When you do not feel you are counting your breath or following your breath, just follow breathing. That is the breathing of the whole universe. So you know your breathing includes everything. There is nothing but whole activity of the world, of the universe. It's nothing but your inhaling and exhaling.

[17:27]

And then he says, this is again an explanation, this is explained, but actually when you practice cells and you have it in that way. And then this is just this little thing I came upon in this lecture about difficulties, actual difficulties. We have various difficulties every day, and I'm confronting with my students' difficulties too, actual difficulties. And I'm not saying anything special. Difficulty, actual difficulty, but actual difficulties... Why we have actual difficulties is, you know, lack of understanding of the problem.

[18:34]

That is why we feel confused. I thought that was so simple. The reason we have difficulties is we don't understand the problem. And we're confused. Let's see, I'm just going to, maybe I'll... you what other things I noted here with these wonderful little stickies, which were invented, by the way, at the 3M company in Minnesota. And the person invented this adhesive, but it didn't stick. It didn't hold. It wouldn't hold anything. These little stickies that stick, but they won't really hold, but they also don't hurt the paper. It's just a wonderful invention. Here's something about happiness.

[19:41]

A student asks him, and he says, in another lecture, he said, we should try and be happy. And Suzuki Roshi says, uh-huh, happy, you know, happy. But, you know... Happiness is not that kind of happiness. My happiness is to suffer with people or to enjoy with people. Maybe to suffer more than people and to enjoy less than people is real happiness. And then he describes trying to divide a watermelon in quarters and no matter how carefully you do it, they're not going to be completely even. So if you just distribute them, you might find oh, my watermelon piece is bigger than that person's. So you have to consciously take the smaller one because otherwise you'll end up, you know, probably getting a bigger one. It's not, and you won't, it won't feel good. So that's what he does. That's his practice. I try not to take the best one.

[20:44]

And then you can be fair. what he says about helping people. When we try, without knowing what is hunger or what is selfishness, it's almost impossible to help others. To know our human nature is very important. Without knowing what is hunger, what is selfishness. I thought that hunger was, I think he experienced hunger during the war, so suffering or our own selfishness, it's almost impossible to help others. When you know what is hunger, when you know what is thirst, what is love, how difficult it is to love some people, then you know you can help people. That is how we study emptiness. Anyway, maybe I'll bring up some more in a couple other lectures.

[21:49]

So we are coming back to... I have some other notes. Maybe it will come up in the lecture. I think the one thing that he did say about painful legs, and you've said this before, he said yesterday, I said, if you have painful legs, don't move. And then he says... with that spirit, just a spirit of determination. I don't mean don't move. Some of you took me literally. I don't mean don't move if you need to move, but with that kind of a determination not to move. It's the spirit of it. So this taking it very literally and hurting ourselves, but a kind of spirit. So yesterday we We talked about mountain way of life and not a single trace of having entered remains. And the next line is, the crown and eyes of the mountains are completely different when we are in the world gazing off at the mountains and when we are in the mountains meeting the mountains.

[23:12]

I think we touched on this a little bit yesterday and in other classes, I think, because it comes up, it came up earlier in the first paragraphs when those people who have the eyes to see the mountains and those who don't have the eyes, remember that was, you know, are outside, don't have a sense of it. That's in that first page. So this, he's coming back to this, the crown and eyes, this literally crown and eyes is... crown of the head and pupil of the eye. And crown and eyes is also translated as countenance or the face or also appearance or true nature. So the crown and eyes of the mountains, the true nature or the face or the appearance of the mountains, are completely different when we're in the world or in the city gazing off at the mountains and when we're in the mountains meeting the mountains. So this difference that we have both literally when you're gazing off at mountains and when you're also in them or thinking about people practicing atasahara or when other people think of you practicing atasahara, gazing off in the ideas they have and the difference between that and being here and the quality of nothing special, being in the middle of something and also

[24:48]

So that's literal mountains and also the mountains as the whole, the whole works, the whole interconnected wholeness, the difference of coursing in that and feeling separated and outside of that, even though we're always in it, whether we know it or not. So they really... isn't a place that's outside of the mountains, that's somehow outside of the whole of existence. There's no vantage point outside. But we might feel that way. We might feel that separation when we don't have the eye to see the mountains. And just in this Hizuki Roshi quote, when we're breathing, our breathing itself is the entire universe breathing, is the entire world.

[25:49]

Our beating heart and breathing is none other than the mountains. We are in the mountains always. But unless we enter our practice, just talking about it, reading about it, if we don't taste it with our own body-mind, the body-mind, which is the dwelling place, you know, of the sated. Sonic boom. Can we hear the airplane now? That's the airplane coming now, right? The sonic boom comes before the airplane comes. It's pushing the waves. I remember complaining to Baker Roshi, Zen Tatsu Baker, why are they doing this?

[26:55]

Why are they breaking the sound barrier over Tassajara? We're supposed to be practicing here. And they're disturbing our practice. I was very self-righteous. Like, can't we call up whoever it is who's doing this? And he said something like, they choose a place in the wilderness where they're not going to disturb a lot of people. That's why they do it here. And I thought, yeah, he's right. To do it over San Francisco, so we can be disturbed. Anyway. So entering the mountains, rather than gazing off, entering our practice. There's the Buddhist four directions. I think there's Native American four directions, different qualities. for different directions. And the four directions in Buddhist cosmology or Buddhist practice, which comes up in the funeral ceremony and other places, is in the east with the dawn is bodhicitta, arousing bodhicitta, the thought of enlightenment.

[28:07]

That's the east, like the dawning of wanting to step into practice fully. And the south is practice. So arousing bodhicitta is east, south is practice, the southern warm sun of our practice life. And then the west is Bodhi, our awakening. And then the north is Nirvana. And those go along with the elements and colors. So entering the mountain to enter with the arousing of the thought of enlightenment or wanting to practice for the benefit of others, and then practicing and awakening. So taking the bodhisattva vow, studying, practicing together, practicing zazen, those everyday activities is entering the mountains, not gazing off at them from some other place.

[29:18]

And we talked a little bit yesterday about the mountain way of life, and is this literal, the mountain way of life, or any way of life? And I think Danny's question, and I think in the broadest sense, each moment is wholeness of practice, wholeness of realization, doing an activity, a wheel ride, or cooking, any activity completely entering the mountains there, and the benefit of all the conditions that... the mountain, literal mountain way of life. And Suzuki Hiroshi, you know, wanted to establish Tassahara. He had the city practice and wanting to have a place like this and the effort to find Tassahara. And you probably know the story of after Zen Tatsu Baker showed him Tassahara, which was for sale, Suzuki Hiroshi was so filled with He was so exhilarated and happy and, I don't know, excited.

[30:29]

He couldn't sit in the car as they were driving out. He had to get out of the car, kind of dance next to the car as he walked out of Tassajara. He was to find a place like this that was, you know, available. Zen Tatsu Baker said, do you want it? We'll get it for you, you know. So, yes, establishing this monastery, and Dogen establishing a Heiji after writing San Suikyo, finding the mountains, the mountain place. So there's nothing special about the mountains, and within this mountain life, this settled, simple life, we realize the nothing specialness of not only this place, but any place. And... And at the same time, people from outside of the mountains do gaze on us, gaze on those who practice within the mountains.

[31:30]

Or, you know, I was thinking of the guests coming in the summer and how as a guest they gaze and think it's so special. And then they say, well, maybe I want to enter the mountains. They become a GPO, right? Guest Practice Opportunity. And that is kind of that half and half. And then they end up wanting to be a guest student or coming for... work period or someone just recently told me they were coming as a guest and then they finally started coming as work period and that was like really what they really loved. So gazing and then seeing something that looks special maybe and then wanting to enter. And then I went and I returned and it was really nothing special. Rozan, famous for its misty mountains, Seko, for its water. So, the next line is, our concept of not flowing and our understanding of not flowing, our concept and our understanding

[32:47]

should not be the same as the dragon's understanding. There's a number of commentary about this. The dragon's understanding of not flowing is when dragon's sitting in the dragon's palace and experiences the not flowing of that due to karmic consciousness. And so our concept of not flowing And our understanding of not flowing should not be the same as the dragon's understanding. If we're looking in the mountains and we say, we feel the mountains are not flowing, you know, that's our karmic understanding as well. And to have, to understand this as karmic rather than be stuck to it, right? The mountains don't flow. And one of the commentary by Nishihari Bokasan is, our ordinary view that the mountain does not flow is based on our karma, just as the dragon's view that water does not flow is simply the dragon's karma.

[34:05]

So I just said this, we should not stick to these karmic views, but should study the flowing mountains of the Buddha Dharma, which is the next thing that comes up. So... Because we've had this onlooker say, both Dogen and Fuyo Dōkai and Yun-men, saying this is a karmic view and it's because of our thinking, or Suzuki Hiroshi saying, it's because of our thinking mind and we need to study this and enter the mountains to study this. So when you are truly in the mountains and living the mountain way of life, we're both flowing and not flowing. If we just stick to the mountains don't flow, and that's the truth, and that's done, that's like a board-carrying fellow. That's only half, or only partial.

[35:07]

and gods reside in their own worlds, and other beings may have their doubts about this, or then again they may not. And this is Bielfeld's comment by one of these teachers. Our doubts about mountains flowing are no more valid than the doubts that beings may have about our world. Therefore we should not let our doubts interfere with our study. So this, humans and gods reside in their own worlds, which are karmically created. We land in our worlds through our karmic consciousness. And other beings may have doubts about this, the humans and gods' world, or then again they may not. This kind of, we're just the same as this. We have doubts, or maybe we don't have doubts. So having a doubt about this not flowing or flowing can animate our practice, this kind of inquiry.

[36:33]

The inquiry of, well, what are they talking about? Or, you know, we have doubts when we read this. We don't understand. We want to throw the sutra away, like, you know, we want to just give up. What are they talking about? But that very quality of mind means we're kind of wanting to make inquiry more. Because we don't understand. It's not ho-ham, I understand. We have doubts about this. We want to ask more. So there's an energy there for our study and our practice. We reside in our own worlds and other beings may have doubts about this or that. Then again, they may not. And we, too, So this reminded me of something.

[37:33]

When I was in the city, I was on the way down actually, I was traveling down here and listening to NPR or KQED radio and there was a big kind of forum, I'm not exactly sure where it was, but it was a public forum with Michael Krasny talking with people from the school district of Oakland, students and school board people, about the fact that the dropout rate for high school students, I think in California, is like 10 or 12% and nationwide maybe about the same or maybe a little higher in California. And in the Oakland school district, it's 40%. 40% dropout rate for high school students, which I was just, you know, really struck me strongly, you know, 40% just picturing 10 kids and four of them, you know.

[38:36]

And then they were interviewing students and administrators and teachers. And I had this thought about our karmic worlds and our realms and these things beings have doubts about this, or then again, they may or may not, and we reside in our own realms and we look at other people's realms and have thoughts about it or not, and there are these different voices, school administrators, talking about how they're trying to keep kids in school. And some of them saying we have to start in, you know, preschool is when we have to start keeping kids from dropping out of high school. And then, you know, there's this wide range of backgrounds and experiences. And then the kids would talk. And one kid said, you know, when you drop out, there's a whole gang of your friends who are waiting for you, who say, hey, come on over. Great, we're happy to have you. Kind of join us.

[39:38]

And you get brought into this whole world of kids who've dropped out. There's a whole community of kids who've, whatever they're doing. And it's hard to stay in school. and it's not easy and there's this pull to drop out. I was just picturing these other realms and then you had the school administrator talking in this very, just from a whole different realm, you know, about testing and it was like, I just felt like, one kid was saying to get from where he lived to school he had to go through these different neighborhoods and take a couple buses and the danger that he faces and what he's up against to get to school was just enormous. It was a dangerous trek to get there every day, going to and fro. And it was sort of like, you have no idea. Anyway, this just reminded me of this. We reside in our own worlds and we either have doubts or we don't.

[40:43]

Do we have doubts? Do we question? Are we inquiring? Where is our energy about the nature of reality or about our world together? And then how do we help people? How do we really help people unless we've suffered and walked Can we help people? Can we even hear what they're saying? So if we lose this kind of energy of inquiry and doubting and asking, you know, we stand outside our world. So... Humans and gods reside in their own worlds. I have something here about doing one thing, which I'm not sure what it's about, but maybe it will come up.

[41:51]

Therefore, this is more of the sutra, therefore, without giving way to surprise and doubt, we should study the words mountains flow with the Buddhas and ancestors. This is Dogen again bringing up, you should investigate, you should consider over and over, you should study with the Buddhas and ancestors. You may have your doubts, but don't just throw it away. Study with the Buddhas and ancestors without giving way to surprise and doubt. And the Buddhas and ancestors are teachers that we encounter as our teachers. And even though they're Buddhas and ancestors, Buddhas and ancestors are old. Whereas we, we in the future will be Buddhas and ancestors, right? So our Buddhas and ancestors are ordinary human beings who have inquired, you know, who are inquiring, who maybe haven't settled their doubts, but are saying, let's study this together.

[43:00]

There's a section here where Okamura Roshi talks about Uchiyama Roshi's style of teaching and also his teacher, Sawaki Kodo Roshi's style. Sawaki Kodo's style of teaching was, and maybe Uchiyama Roshi's too, was, he said, pasturage. You just ordain them and put them out to pasture like cows. where you send them out to the pasture until winter, you know, and they will feed for themselves and find their way, you know. He didn't, Sawaki Kodo didn't have a temple. He was very poor, didn't have his own place, and he just trusted people to go on his way, on their way. And same with Uchiyama Roshi. He... What he said to Okamura Roshi was, I don't face my students. I don't babysit them. I don't take care of them. I don't face them. I face the Buddha. I only face the Buddha. And if you want to practice with me, we'll face the Buddha together, which reminded me of my book my therapist wrote.

[44:11]

And I think on the cover where she has a painting of this. Anyway, it's two women sitting in chairs the therapist and the analyst and the analyst and the analyst and they're sitting in chairs and they're both facing the mystery together. They're not facing each other. The therapist cannot do anything for you, cannot do it for you, but together you face the mystery. Together you face the unfaceable, but you do it together. And it reminded me of this. Uchiyama Roshi faces the booty he doesn't face and babysit. And he sent Okamura Roshi to the United States at 26 with two other priests by himself to just establish a place. And he said, I was very, very young, but he trusted me to just go out there.

[45:11]

So this is a style of teaching. You have to practice on your own." It's Uchiyama Roshi's style. And that kind of, because he completely trusted and helped him and said, you have to walk on your own two legs, Okamura Roshi felt that was how he relied on his teacher, by the fact that his teacher trusted him to walk on his own two feet, his own two legs. So this is one style, then there are different styles. Different teachers have different styles. Some teachers really stay close to their students. Some are more this pasturage type. And we have examples of this, all different kinds of teaching styles. But Dogen says, studying

[46:20]

the words, mountain flow with the Buddhas and ancestors. Whatever form that takes for you. And then he comes back again to these virtues of the mountains and the virtues of the water, which he's revisited over and over, these two virtues of flowing and not flowing or peacefully abiding in our Dharma position and constantly walking. So taking up one view, there is flowing. Taking up another, there is not flowing. At one turn there is flowing, at another not flowing. If our study is not like this, it is not the true Dharma wheel of the Thus Come One, the Tathagata, the Thus Come One. So these are the two virtues of the mountains, the two virtues of the water, the two virtues of the reality of all existence, the two virtues of body-mind entering the mountains is constantly walking and dwelling peacefully, flowing and not flowing.

[47:38]

And if we get stuck in one or the other, it's not the wheel, it's not This circle, you know, it's not the true Dharma wheel of the Tathagata. So, you know, how is it as we study these words that the mountains flow, how do we study this, that the two sides, that we're not stuck in one or the other, and that our expression of our practice embodies, you know, both. sides of the same coin that sort of look like opposites, flowing and not flowing, but I think the explanation of it in our grammar and in our words, they have a kind of dualistic way, you know, flowing and not flowing, but I think the living out the reality of that existence

[48:41]

we understand or we realize it, realize the two sides as one. So when we take up one view, it's flowing, we take up another. And old Buddha has said, if you wish to avoid the karma of a vici hell, do not slander the true Dharma wheel. of the Thus Come One. So we've just said here, the true Dharma wheel of the Thus Come One is flowing and not flowing, and our study, study it like this, flowing and not flowing. And then an old Buddha has said, if you wish to avoid the karma of a vici hell, do not slander the true Dharma wheel of the Thus Come One. And this old Buddha here that Dogen is talking about is a wonderful Buddha, a wonderful ancestor, Nyongja Xuanzhui, and he is sometimes nicknamed the Overnight Guest, the Overnight Guest, and he wrote a long, beautiful poem called The Song of Enlightenment, Shodoka, which someday I would like to

[50:12]

have as a practice period teaching, shodoka. So the story of this particular Buddha, Yongjia, the overnight guest, he's a disciple of six ancestors, Huinang, and he shows up at Saochi, he shows up at the Huinang's temple in the evening. It's called the overnight guest. And it's interesting, their dialogue here, I will put on my glasses. kind of brings up this moving and not moving. So here's this stranger, just walks in down the road. And this is 665 to 713 are his dates. So he... went to visit Sao Chi to visit the sixth ancestor. Upon first meeting Hui Nung, he struck his staff on the ground and circled the sixth ancestor three times and then stood there.

[51:22]

So, you know, just picture a stranger walking in and... Someday it will happen, you know. And pelunking his, you know, and just standing there. And the sixth ancestor says, this monk possesses the 3,000 noble characteristics and the 80,000 fine attributes. O monk, where have you come from? How have you attained such self-possession? And Yongja said, the great matter of birth and death does not tarry. The sixth ancestor said, then why not embody what is not born and attain what is not hurried. Jung-ja said, what is embodied is not subject to birth. What is attained is fundamentally unmoving. And the sixth ancestor said, just so, just so. Upon hearing these words, everyone among the congregation of monks was astounded.

[52:26]

Jung-ja formally paid his respects to the sixth ancestor, probably bowed. He then said, advised that he was immediately departing. The sixth ancestor said, don't go so quickly. Yongja said, fundamentally there is nothing moving, so how can something be too quick? The sixth ancestor said, how can one know there's no movement? Yongja said, the distinction is completely of the master's own making. The sixth ancestor said, you have fully attained the meeting that you have fully attained the meaning of what is unborn. Yongja said, so does what is unborn have a meaning? The sixth ancestor said, what makes a distinction about whether there is a meaning or not? Yongja said, distinctions are meaningless. The sixth ancestor shouted, excellent, excellent. Now just stay here a single night.

[53:29]

Thus, people referred to Yongja as the overnight guest. The next day, Yongja descended the mountain and returned to Wanzhou, where Zen students gathered to study with him. So he just walked in, and they had that exchange, and he stayed one night. Yeah. and he was called a great disciple of Hoina. So he wrote Shodoka, which is Japanese, for the Song of Enlightenment, and in it he said, if you wish to avoid the karma of a vichy hell, do not slander the true Dharma wheel of the Thus Come One. So the Dharma wheel is this round wheel, and it has, you know, it's...

[54:33]

It includes both peacefully unmoving, peacefully abiding, and moving, and constantly moving. Sort of like this flame, the flame of the funeral ceremony flame, peacefully abiding, [...] peacefully abiding. and movie. So Avicii Hell, I just wanted to say what that is. Avicii Hell is this uninterrupted hell, and one gets there by five actions, five karmic actions, which you maybe know about, killing your father, killing your mother, killing an arhat, physically harming a Buddha, or causing, yeah, harming a Buddha, wounding a Buddha, and causing damage to the Sangha.

[55:37]

Those are the five kind of pancha, vici, karmani, these karmic actions that bring you to this difficult realm of a vici hell uninterrupted. So this slandering, you know, do not slander the true Dharma wheel is harming the sangha. I think it'd become under the fifth one of those causing damage to the sangha. So the Tathagata's teaching, the Thus Comes One's teaching, always has these two sides. And how do we put that together, this unmoving and moving? How is that? How do we express that? How do we, even hearing it, and intellectually getting a sense of it. How do we live it out? I think that's really what Dogen's asking us in this study.

[56:39]

The study of the studying with Buddhists and ancestors is not just intellectual study, it's complete study, studying the self. So there's this slandering by not slandering the wheel of the Thus Come One, the true dharma. Another way of doing that is, reminded me of the laziness, one of the lazinesses that the Shuso brought up, which I mentioned before, of I'm no good, you know, and I don't have what it takes, and I'm just no good neck and all the other language, this kind of denigration of ourselves is a certain kind of laziness that also is a kind of slandering the Dharma wheel, you know, slandering the Thus Come One, the Dharma wheel of the Thus Come One, which is talking about ourselves in a way that somehow

[57:56]

is ignoring all these teachings about our Buddha nature of flowing and non-flowing and peacefully abiding and constantly changing and living out this reality of existence of which we cannot be separated, to which, of which, through I don't even know what preposition to use. So, you know, Buddhas and ancestors of old, whereas we, in the future, will be Buddhas and ancestors. I bow to you, future Buddha, as, you know, in the Lotus Sutra, the Bodhisattva, never disparage. I bow to you, future Buddha. No matter what you think of me or yourself, this was his practice, you know, So this denigration of ourselves is a kind of slandering of the Buddha Dharma wheel of the Tuttagata.

[59:09]

And I think we put ourselves in a kind of unremitting avicii hell when we do that, actually. Avicii hell is no let-up, you know, kind of. And I think we're able to, through our thinking in this way, denigration, belittling, we don't think of it as slandering the Buddha Dharma. We think that's true about myself. I am a horrible person. I am worthless. I am not of value. I am, and all the other words that we use. So this is a kind of deprecation and... you know, it flies in the face of all these teachings and the teachings of living out our true self. I think I'll do one more here.

[60:30]

These words should be engraved on skin, flesh, bones, and marrow, engraved on interior and exterior of body and mind, engraved on emptiness and on form. They are engraved on trees and rocks, engraved on fields and villages. So these words, what we're talking about, these particular words are these words virtues of the mountains, these two virtues of what we've just been talking about, the truth of the wheel of the Dharma that thus come one, of this abiding in our place and constantly arising, this walking, the blue mountains are constantly walking, these two virtues peacefully abiding and moving. These words, this expression, should be engraved on skin, flesh, bones, and marrow. This, that's, you know, skin, flesh, bones, and marrow is the, you know, our own practice body, you know.

[61:41]

And this constantly rest, I think we've, all throughout, this is really the theme, the underlying theme of the San Sui Kyo, this Constantly at rest is jo an ju, and constantly walking jo un po. So this, not to forget this, inscribe this in our body, mind, on our skin, flesh, bones and marrow. Engrave it, you know, on the interior and exterior. We've come upon this interior and exterior before. These are interior and exterior of body and mind. Do you remember when we were talking about a-show earlier, the objective and the subjective and the circumstances, our body and mind are the a-show, the a-ho is the circumstances, you're all my a-ho, and the a-show is the interior, our own body and mind, those karmic

[62:48]

I think we remember talking about that. So the interior and exterior of the body, meaning our own objective and subjective life, all of our circumstances, our environment, engrave this teaching on our own body and mind and all of our circumstances and experiences. They should be constantly with us, inside and outside. engraved on emptiness and on form. So Heart Sutra, you know, engraved form is emptiness. Emptiness is form. I think the Heart Sutra is the engraving of this. Form is no different than emptiness. Emptiness form is form. Emptiness is all that is these virtues, these teachings. Engraved on trees and rocks. This comes from the Mahaparinirvana Sutra, and it's a very interesting story. It's a

[63:49]

A story of the Buddha in a past life, like a Jyadaka tale. He was a boy practitioner who was named Sessandoji, which meant snow mountain boy. And he was living in the Himalayas. And he came, he was in the mountains, and he came upon a monster in the mountains, a Rakshasa. You know how sometimes we read in those sutras about these different beings. Well, he came upon one of them, a Rakshasa. whatever that is. It's a monster. And the Rakshasa was reciting the first two lines of a four-line gatha. And the lines were, all beings are impermanent. These are beings of arising and perishing. All beings are impermanent. These are beings of arising and perishing. And Snow Mountain Boy thought, well, this is a beautiful, beautiful verse. And it's expressing the truth that I've been longing to hear from

[64:50]

This is the Buddha's teaching, but I think there's a couple other lines. He's only reciting the first two lines. So he said to the monster, would you please recite the second two lines of this verse? And the rakshasa said, I'm too hungry to recite the other two lines. And so Snow Mountain Boy said, if you'll recite the second two lines of the verse, I'll offer myself to you to eat. So the Rakshasa took him up on that, and the Rakshasa began reciting the second two lines. And the second two lines are, having a rising and perishing perished, that serenity and calmness is the bliss of nirvana. So you've got these two virtues, right? They're rising and perishing, and then the perishing of a rising and perishing. That's the bliss of nirvana. Oh, and Snow Mountain Boy was so happy.

[65:52]

that he jumped off this big rock to offer himself to the Rakshasa to eat up. And just at that moment, the Rakshasa transformed into Indra and caught Snow Mountain Boy before he crashed to the ground. And it was Indra, who was a protector of the Dharma, who was testing Snow Mountain Boy. The Snow Mountain boy was so excited about this that he inscribed this verse on rocks and trees all over to share it with everybody else. So we should inscribe it, we should engrave it on rocks and trees, not only on our skin, flesh, bones, and marrow, on all of our circumstances and our own interior and exterior circumstances, but on rocks and trees. The interesting thing about this story is Sawaki Kodo, this is Uchiyama Roshi, Okama Roshi's grandfather, Sawaki Kodo, before he was ordained as a monk, he had a very hard life as a teenager, actually, speaking of hard lives of teenagers, and he was living with a foster family, I guess, and he went to some kind of Dharma talk, and they told this story, the teacher told this story, and he was so inspired by this story that he...

[67:18]

decided to seek the Dharma and become a monk. I found that to be very moving. Somehow this giving of your life in order to hear the teaching, that much heart. And that turns Hawakikoro to practice. So that's the source of this expression about engraving on rocks and trees and arising and perishing and the ceasing of arising and perishing. And then the last part, then I'm going to stop here. Yes? Really? Am I mumbling?

[68:21]

Anybody else having a hard time hearing? Was I mumbling, do you think? No? Okay. I hope maybe we're getting tired. Yeah. So the last one is engraved on fields and villages of this section about engraving all over. And this engraved on fields and villages, this comes from, you know, it's so interesting, it's so chock full. Every single line is just, which is how we actually talk. It's intimate language when you're talking with people who share literature, share the teachings, share experiences. You do shorthand. You say it's like a an old couple where he says, oh, and then there was, and she said, don't tell that story. It's like, you're just so intimate with them. You know before, somebody's about, and we can be that way with our Dharma friends, and then when you get in a different situation, it's like you don't know the references.

[69:34]

What is he talking about, trees and rocks? You have a whole other set of But this is why the koans are so difficult. It's intimate language between teachers and students who've been living together and practicing together. And then they say something. And in 2012, it's like, why are they doing incomprehensible speech? But it's intimate language. And we do it, too. Like yesterday when I said I could have been a contender. For some people, it's like, what is she talking about? Other people immediately, they remember the whole movie. So we do this all the time. So engraved on fields and villages comes from the Lotus Sutra, and it's from the chapter, The Benefits of Responding with Joy. The Buddha encourages people to expound the Lotus Sutra everywhere, including temples, solitary places, cities, towns, fields, and villages. So it's not only on trees and rocks and our own bodies, but...

[70:36]

go to populated places, go to the villages, go to the fields and villages and expound this dharma. These virtues of blue mountains are constantly walking, peacefully abiding in our dharma position and freed and arising and vanishing. So I wanted to stop there. We'll start tomorrow with, yeah, we got to the end of where I was hoping to get to. We start a new paragraph about the mountains belong to those who love them. And if we don't, you know, I said I'm bound and determined to finish this, and if we have to stay up the last night, all night, we will finish.

[71:40]

the San Sui Kyo. And I thought we could do some walking meditation now, so let's meet in our work circle. Thank you very much. Thank you for listening to this podcast offered by the San Francisco Zen Center. Our Dharma Talks are offered free of charge, and this is made possible by the donations we receive. Your financial support helps us to continue to offer the Dharma. For more information, visit sfcc.org and click Giving.

[72:14]

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