This podcast is offered by the San Francisco Zen Center on the web at www.sfzc.org. Our public programs are made possible by donations from people like you. Good evening. Looking for someone who I wanted to thank for something, but I don't see them, so... Buddhism, at least as I've been taught it, gives a kind of radical teaching, I believe, that is that each of us is Buddha. What exactly Buddha is might be a question, but I take that to mean basically each of us fits who we are, is actually okay. It fits in the moment. And it doesn't mean that who I am is something stuck.

[01:03]

You know, like, I thought I was leaving the cabin. It's not kind of like Popeye, you know, I am what I am. And, you know, don't mess with it. It's not like that. It's who we are as we are continually changing and continually responding in a very organic way. me that's uh can't be captured in some way but actually can be rested on so i think that's the the radical radical i say because i don't think that's how we normally feel we don't feel like who i am is exactly perfect to this moment we often feel probably many times a day we feel like Oh, I did that wrong, or they did that wrong, or somehow the situation was wrong. Somehow a wrong me came out in this situation. So, again, Buddhism, as I've been taught it, doesn't say try to convince yourself that this is true.

[02:08]

Try to take this teaching and believe it. Just accept it. Rather, it says test it out. You know, is this true? This is what Buddha is teaching. What do you find for yourself? And that's one way of describing what zazen is all about. Basically, sit down, put yourself in a stable posture, find yourself, which is sometimes helped by finding your breath or your posture, and try to be open to it. Try to see, you know, a shorthand way, is this okay? That's sitting zazen, and then there's zazen when you get up and move around in your life. Same thing. This is what last time I talked I was calling the craft of zen. Find a stable posture, sitting, walking, standing, or lying down.

[03:12]

Find yourself. Find... whatever sort of calls for your attention at that moment, or find what you're doing, find some tightness in yourself, and try to be open to that with this questioning attitude. Is this okay? Sometimes our first answer is no, it's not. But the practice of Zazen, the practice of Buddhism, asks us to put a little rack of uncertainty in that no it's not and actually ask the question stay with it long enough to ask the question is this okay is it okay to be this person there are some things that make this doing this difficult they make it difficult in sitting zazen and they certainly make it difficult in living zazen living zazen out in our life A few weeks ago, Gil Fronsdale was here, a Zen and Vipassana teacher from Mountain View or somewhere like that.

[04:20]

And he gave a class on a text that he's translating. A number of you were there. A text that he's translating now. I believe he said it was, they think, the oldest Buddhist text, the oldest... not quite a quotation, but the oldest remembrance of what Buddha himself said. And it's before Buddha tried to make up a lot of systems that would help people remember how to practice. So it's just a very simple text. And basically, he said a little bit more than this, but to narrow it down, Gil described it as saying that... the sage, the enlightened person, lives a life of peace by not grasping at views and not grasping at sense pleasures or grasping at sense desires.

[05:29]

And I thought, yeah, actually those are the two things that make it hard to practice zazen, this kind of zazen of being open to the self that's arising now. Not grasping at sense pleasures. That does not mean don't enjoy sense pleasures. When sense pleasures are there, it's okay to enjoy them. Grasping at them is when we either want sense pleasures that aren't there or... or are worried that they might be going to go, so we hold on to them, or don't want the sense non-pleasures that are there. So if we're experiencing unpleasantness or pain, we want the relative pleasure of their absence. So we grasp that, which is the same as aversion to unpleasantness or pain, which is...

[06:38]

what I usually talk about because I think that's one of our biggest problems. We don't like unpleasantness. We don't like pain. We cause ourselves and others a lot of pain trying to get away from those states. But I want to take just a minute tonight to talk about this other side of actually noticing that sometimes we can just rest in the sense pleasures that are there. Today we had a class. Is Peggy here? She probably had. Yes, may I plagiarize a little bit from your class? I wanted to share with you, we had a class, Peggy gave a class on joy, cultivating joy, and there were many wonderful things said in that class, but she recommended a practice for us, those of us who were there, and it seemed like a really good practice, and I wanted to share it. I know a number of people had other things going on that they needed to be at at that time and weren't able to be at the class, and also the guests didn't even know it was happening.

[07:42]

So I wanted to share this one little part of the class with you, which was a brief part, a brief rendition of what Peggy said. She gave us several practices. This to me seemed the easiest to do and really worthwhile. It was how to notice when joy arises. I think it was suggested by Thich Nhat Hanh. Basically, to notice some time, something that gives you joy. Something simple, like something here at Tassajara. I think for most people, there is something here that causes you joy. Peggy mentioned that when she's walking from her room down at the lower barn area up to Tassajara, there's a place in the creek where there's a lot of water running over rocks. It's kind of... you know, looking happily like water running over rocks, and that she noticed that sometimes she feels joy at that.

[08:43]

So, you know, there are other things. I often, she asks us to think of a time, something like that, a sound, a smell, a sight where we normally feel joy. And I thought of, I go from the Zendo to my cabin over there through the upper garden often, and there are two things happening there that... I've been noticing and that I appreciate when I see them. One is there's a sunflower that's growing very fast. It doesn't have a flower yet, but it's happening. It started out almost in the middle of the path, and it's taking over more of the path. And so I can't miss it. So it's very lively. And the other is there's a whole bed of would-be tomatoes. They're not tomatoes yet, but they're tomato flowers and tomato plants. So when I see these two things, I feel a little rising of energy and anticipation and joy that they're happening. And also when I walked out of my cabin just now, there was this beautiful pink sky, which happens most evenings, actually.

[09:52]

So the assignment was to think of something around Tassajara that when you notice it, kind of on a regular basis, causes you joy. And then... sort of vow to notice it every time you walk by it. And if you walk by it and you forget or you're distracted, go back and walk by it again. Just to have that experience of joy arising and get used to it. Notice, because so often we just don't take the time to notice when we have joy. So I wanted to share that with all of you. It seemed to me like a good thing to try. So then back to the aversion to pain, which is another kind of grasping at pleasure. I think that this is one of the major ways that we are kept away from studying, is this self, is this body-mind Buddha?

[10:59]

Is this one, the one that's actually here right now, does it fit? go along in a beneficial way with other things that are happening now. When we feel pain or unpleasantness, and this kind of goes with the next thing, we get an idea that this is not right. It's not right that I should feel this way. And we move away from the way we're feeling into a variety of other things. We move away into blame of ourself or of somebody else or something else. Or we move away into an idea of what it should be like. And that's the second thing that is mentioned in the Napata Sutta, grasping onto views. So we have ideas of how things should be. And they can include a lot of different things.

[12:03]

They can include Buddhism. We can have an idea about what Buddha's teaching is and that everybody should be following it the way we think they should, or just I should be following it the way that I think I should. And that kind of ideal, that kind of view, keeps us away from what's actually happening right now. If it doesn't match our ideal, we think, oh, I should focus on how it should be. But it keeps us from actually finding out Is this Buddha? How could this be Buddha? What would it mean for this to be Buddha? So to come back from our view to what's actually here, to notice grasping, actually. Grasping, one way I think of describing grasping is a tightening. like holding on. And especially in this practice, which is very much a physical practice, you know, sit down or put yourself in a balanced position, find yourself and be open to it, is actually a very physical thing.

[13:14]

So one of the things that we might notice is a tightening somewhere in our body or in our mind, which usually manifests as a tightening in our body. And if that tightening is there, to still just try to loosen it. That's fine. And if it doesn't go away, to just try to be there with it. Dogen describes practice in one place as being unstained with a dualistic mind. being unstained with a mind that has two ideas, an idea of what's actually happening now and an idea of how it should be. And he describes being unstained in that way, unstained with dualism, as meeting somebody and not caring what they look like. Or when seeing a flower or the moon,

[14:20]

not thinking it should have more color or brightness. I think we've all experienced that, you know, to see a flower or the moon and we, you know, it's just what it is. The moon is as the moon is. A flower is as a flower is. Now there might be sometimes, you know, now at Tassajara, you should have been here a month ago. You know, the flowers were like, so bright and now they're kind of fading a lot of them so we it is possible to even have that feeling about a flower but I think most of us have experienced what it's like to see a flower or to see the moon and just be that's the way it is and if you love the full moon that's great but when you see a half moon or a crescent moon you know usually you don't sit around and wish for the full moon when it's a half moon or a crescent moon.

[15:21]

We actually know, oh, now's the time of a half moon. And half moons don't stick around. Eventually it'll be a full moon again. And we're willing to be open to that. So to have that kind of attitude toward ourself, toward our situation, toward each other, that's a much more rare thing, to just meet ourself as we are. And again, the two things that mostly stop us from doing that, I think, are having a view that it should be some other way and not liking how it is, not liking it because it's unpleasant or because it's painful, which often leads to this view that it should be some other way. So it's pretty simple. Just notice those two views, notice those two graspings, try to come back from them to be with what's actually here.

[16:26]

This is what Zazen is all about, really. It's about helping us to do that. There is a little poem about this. Actually, I've kind of rearranged it, but I'll tell it to you. A child of riches, as soon as he falls on the boundless road of destitution, has such sorrow. But wait, do you know the self? Vaguely, like a moon through ivy, a crescent at that. And still, it's a thousand times better than an imagination. A child of riches, as soon as he falls on the boundless road of destitution, has such sorrow. But wait, do you know the self or not? Vaguely. like a moon through ivy, a crescent at that. But still, even a glimpse is a thousand times better than imagination.

[17:29]

I think I've said everything I plan to say. I wonder if you have any questions. I could say a little bit about that poem, I guess, in case you had any questions. A Child of Riches, I think... that's us you know we that's this everyone is Buddha that our life as it is is full of riches and yet as soon as we look at our life soon as we fall into this boundless road of destitution which can appear to us at any moment how it's not right it's it's not the way I wanted it to be as soon as we have that feeling it takes us away We have such sorrow. It takes us away from our life of riches. But wait, do you know the self or not? Vaguely, like a moon through ivy, a crescent at that, which is really the only way we can know the self. We can't get the self into a picture of a full moon or a description.

[18:38]

This is my self. It will always be... It will always be through the ivy of circumstance. It will always be partial. It will always be a crescent. And yet, even a glimpse of it, even a small experience of it, is truer, is more accurate, more worth much, much more than our imagination of what it should be. So this encouragement to keep Keep looking at this partial moon. That's what I hope to convey to you tonight. Do you have any questions or thoughts? Yes, Dominique. So I'm hearing you say that there are two things that prevent us from accepting things how they are, having this idea of how it should be, and then grasping at how you want it to be or don't want.

[19:40]

And then you said that when that happens, you should just try to come back to how it is and glimpse the crescent new through the IV. Yes. But I'm also hearing you say that already each moment manifests is Buddha. Yes. As well as unmanifests. And so in my experience, I found that trying to come back to how it is is actually just another type of control because you think that because you have this idea of how it should be, and you're grasping at it, but that is not how it should be, and so you should let it go of your ideas of how it should be, but that's just another way of grasping. That's, yes. So, I was confused about the glimpsing the crescent moon through your ivy, because each moment is Buddha, even though you're grasping and pushing away and imagining that isn't each moment already the full moon, and all you have to do is yes yes that's yes go right ahead in fact that's in a way I think that's why Zazen is so so ungraspable you know so like what is going on there I think it's part I mean like somebody said to me I used to be so alive in my Zazen and now it feels all swimmy and

[21:11]

I said, you know, and we talked about that some, but I said, you know, in some ways I think when you come to a place like Tassajara where you're sitting regularly, probably for most people more than they do at home, not for everybody, but for a lot of people, and at times that you don't necessarily choose that you would sit, you know, early in the morning, later at night, that that swimminess perhaps, that kind of... uncertainty about what's going on here is part of what we need. Because we have such an impulse to control. We think, and already there's a problem, we think, I need to know, this is my life, I need to be doing something with it. Even Zazen, this is Zazen, I should be doing something. And already that's very connected to our sense of self and our ego and our sense of control.

[22:13]

So to sit down in Zazen and not be quite sure about what's happening there, you know, as Suzuki Roshi said, you know, you may think you're having good Zazen or bad Zazen. That's really beside the point. You know, that's just an idea of whether it's good Zazen or bad Zazen. Actually, Zazen is much bigger than our idea of it. So we sit there and it kind of cuts through. what we think is happening so that we can settle into what's actually happening, which includes, as you said, ideas of how it should be. But we can also see, if we're there with it, we can see that our ideas of how it should be or our aversion to pain is causing more pain. So if we have the ability to come back from causing more pain, to just being with how it is, I think that's a good thing to do. Do you want to say anything more?

[23:14]

Thank you. Yes, Key? I'm wondering what you think the extent to which joy is relevant to Zen practice, like the vocation of it, or the hoping for it in the future, trying to get to it or being motivated by it, to what extent is that relevant? What does it say? Well, I think hoping to get to it and... You said cultivate. What did you say? Hoping to get to it. Oh, being motivated by it. Being motivated by it's a little tricky because there's bound to be some imagination, or it seems... like probably there would be some imagination of what that would be. I'm kind of suspicious of those kind of things, that it really distracts us from what it is.

[24:16]

To notice joy and to enjoy joy, I think, is very relevant to practice. And I think that a lot of people find that in their life and find it here, to... try to get joy, I think it's kind of tricky. It's pretty hard to do in my experience. It's kind of fraught with a kind of graspiness, which is the opposite of joy. It's a tightening. Yes, go ahead. Well, this might be a silly question, but why should we try? If it is joy, why should we make an attempt to enjoy that? We don't have to make an attempt to enjoy it. I was just saying it's okay to do it. If it's joy, you don't make an attempt to enjoy it. You're already enjoying it. That's how you know it's joy. It's not a thing over there.

[25:17]

It's a thing in here. It's an experience. But sometimes people think, have mixed in with their joy, a feeling of guilt. Or a feeling of I should not be attached. This might be attachment. And I think it's true. There's joy and then there's attachment to joy. And it's good to be able to see attachment to joy. But just joy by itself is not attachment. It's joy. And it's okay even to want joy. It's just that wanting something has a little bit of pain in it. And if we want it a lot, we'll start causing pain for other people and ourselves. So it's not that it's not okay to do it. We do it. But still, it's good to notice it and therefore hopefully not do it too much. Thank you.

[26:20]

Yes, Chris. So as I go through my day, days, a week really, You know, here and there, I'll spot a really, really bad energy will come up and some negative feelings and negative emotions. Sometimes for myself, other people are just, you know, I'll be dehydrated or something and then suddenly everything that pops up, I'm angry at it. Yes. So I haven't been able to make that go away when it happens, but I have been able to watch it while it's there and sort of enjoy that, or sort of maybe be with it while it's there, pay attention to it, and then eventually it goes away. So I've been able to at least do that. And I think that's okay because, you know, to try and push it away or try and make it, you know, speed up its departure, that'd be sort of like aversion to preferring a Nick, you know. Exactly. What I haven't yet been able to do is sort of take that attitude of practice and bring it to the mornings when I'm exhausted or when I can't sit in the forms or when I'm moving around too much, et cetera.

[27:32]

And I was wondering if you could just say something that might help in that effort. Thank you. Before that, I just wanted to go back to what you said. I think it's really important about I haven't been able to make it go away, but I've been able to notice it. and kind of see what it is, and usually then I manage to keep it from getting too out of hand, kind of spraying it all over everyone. I think our feeling that it should go away, or that I should make it go away, or just that it should go away, is really misplaced. I mean, we wish it would go away, right? It would be really nice if it never came again. But... I don't think that's the definition of enlightenment or freedom, that really those states, it's fine if they continue to arise forever. It's more than if they are there, how do we be with them in a way that they don't cause damage to ourselves or to others?

[28:38]

And our thinking that it's so terrible that they're still here really doesn't help that. It's really like, okay, still there's that karmic state. It's here. Can I stay with it? And so the morning... So let me see if I understood your question. You said you were doing that somewhat when you get these kind of angry or unhappy states during the day. But early in the morning, when you kind of wake up in a... bad mood or you come to zazen and basically you're either sleepy or you're moving a lot. There's pain in zazen. Is that what you're saying? Yeah, it's more like I'm having trouble being with a bad posture that I can't fix, that I'd have to fix over time for stretching, for example, or just the inability to sit still, like, despite my best intention, like I fidget,

[29:43]

a lot. And because of that, it's always causing this fear of going to zazen. And I avoided zazen because of it. Because I'd rather just not go than go and just completely fail at the form. Yeah. Well, that's a great example of having a view. grasping at a view, having a view that zazen means sitting in a certain way. And zazen is a perfect thing to have a view of, right, because sitting, like squirming, which I've done my share of myself, is so painful. There's the idea of it being different than this, and there's the projection on the people around us who must be noticing that we're really not doing it right. And then there's just the physical pain of it. So there are lots of pressures toward sitting still, and yet sometimes we can't do that.

[30:46]

It's just not what's happening. That's not the Zazen we can do. So to meet the fear, to what I would recommend, when you are either sitting there or when you avoid it and are hiding out in bed with the covers over your head or whatever, to try to put yourself in a stable position, try to find the contraction, the fear, the aversion, the self-loathing, the feeling of failure, whatever it is, and be there with that. Because it's just that. It's a feeling. It's not the truth. what I'd recommend and you know you might find out if you try that in bed that well maybe I could do this better sitting up maybe you wouldn't anything else yes

[31:59]

interactions with other people. And I think that we're social creatures and we look for this joy with the people and allies. And I understand that you can apply the principles of not grasping at that. But I feel like it's more complicated when it's not just a brook or a pretty sunset, but when there's another person involved who's also changing at their own. Yes. It's a lot more complicated. But still, I think the practice is pretty simple. It's the same simple practice. Just, you know, put yourself in a stable posture. Try to find... If you're noticing something unsimple happening, like this feels funny in some way, or... unpleasant or I feel like I'm leaning toward the person or away from them or something, is put yourself in a stable posture, find the feeling, make some space for it.

[33:18]

Try to be open to it and stable with it. There also is, for a lot of people, aversion to attachment, which is not the same as non-attachment. So for us to... leap to what we think of as non-attachment, just because we're afraid of being attached, that's not the same thing. That's another kind of grasping. Then it's also another lecture, and it's now getting time to stop. I just wanted to point out, not everyone feels like people, yeah. In fact, nobody feels like people, yeah, all the time. So I hope that you can all take up these practices. Thank you very much. Thank you for listening to this podcast offered by the San Francisco Zen Center. Our Dharma talks are offered free of charge, and this is made possible by the donations we receive.

[34:24]

Your financial support helps us to continue to offer the Dharma. For more information, visit sfcc.org and click Giving.

[34:33]

@Transcribed_UNK
@Text_v005
@Score_91.89