But we won't wait for him to come down. I'll start here on the page. I don't want to get too far back. Page 17, before I came down here. Two days after it happened. Okay, we know what it is, right? Two days after it happened, two days after it happened that a boy who was passing by the room where I was pounding rice, recited loudly the stanza written by Xin Xiao. Here it's called Xin Xiao. As soon as I heard it, I knew at once that the composer of it had not yet realized the essence of mind. for although I had not been taught about it at that time, I already had a general idea of it.

[01:04]

What stanza is this? I asked the boy. Don't you know about it? The patriarch told his disciples that the question of incessant rebirth was a momentous one, that those who wished to inherit his robe in Dharma should write him a stanza. and that the one who had an understanding of the essence of mind would get them and be made the sixth patriarch. Elder Xin Shao wrote this formless stanza on the wall of the South Corridor and the patriarch told us to recite it. He also said that those who put its teaching into actual practice would attain great merit and be saved from the misery of being born in the evil realms of existence. I told the boy that I wished to recite this stanza too, so that I might have an affinity with its teaching in future life. I also told him that, although I had been pounding on rice there for eight months, I had never been to the hall, and that he would have to show me where the stanza was to enable me to make obeisance to it.

[02:10]

The boy took me there, and I asked him to read it to me, as I am illiterate. A petty officer of the Kong Chow district named Chong Ca Jung, who happened to be there, read it out to me. When he had finished reading, I told him that I also had composed a stanza, and asked him to write it for me. Extraordinary indeed, I exclaimed, that you can also compose a stanza. Don't despise the beginner, said I. If you are a seeker of supreme enlightenment, you should know that the lowest class may have the sharpest wits, while the highest may be in want of intelligence. If you slight others, you commit a very great sin. Dictate your stanza, I said. I'll take it, but do not forget to deliver me should you succeed to get in the dark. This, you know, is a kind of, it looks like he's serious, but it's kind of making fun of him.

[03:16]

In Master Hua's commentary, he says that those people standing around him are kind of making fun of him. I think it's the Dharma, I call him. Almost the Dharma that is actually not Dharma. My stanza written, there is no Bodhi tree, nor stand of a mirror bright. Since all is void, where can the dust light? I'm sorry, I should have read the other one. Let's take my back. Page 15. This is Shen Shu, called Shen Shao here. At 12 o'clock that night, he went secretly with a lamp This is the Shen Sha, Shen Shu, to write the stanza on the wall of the south corridor so that the patriarch might know what spiritual insight he had attained. And the stanza read, our body is the Bodhi tree, our mind is a mirror bright. Carefully we wipe them, hour by hour, and let no dust alive.

[04:21]

And then we notice the response, his kata is, There is no bodhi dream, nor stand of a mirror bright. Since all is void, where can the dust lock? When he had written this, all disciples and others who were present were greatly surprised. And filled with admiration, they said to one another, How wonderful! No doubt we should not judge people by appearance. How can it be that for so long we have made a bodhisattva incarnate work for us? Now, this could also be still making fun of you. Seeing that the crowd was overwhelmed with amazement, the patriarch rubbed off the stanza with his shield, lest the most jealous people should do any injury. He expressed the opinion, which they took for granted, that the author of this stanza had also not yet realized the essence of mind.

[05:28]

Well, it seems like he was trying to protect you from something, whether it was injury, whether people hurt him or not, I'm not sure. And then to suddenly say, oh, this one has it. In some way, put the little kid in. . And I spend a lot of time walking in, if I get distracted. So basically, I couldn't find out some requests rather than having pleasant thoughts. But, you know, like getting carried away or having pleasant thoughts, I just go, what do you think about the screen? The stanzas. What do we feel about that?

[06:33]

What's the first one talking about? It's identifying. It identifies the mind. It identifies the body. It says that they exist and that if you act in certain ways. Whereas the other one really says that there's nothing to identify. And I think it's very, very clear and very straightforward. But it seems very complicated sometimes, well said, with him. What else can be the science of how you can be misled and have some deal with serious attention in life and life? I mean, we'll talk about a different kind of practice. Which I think is one thing that I know it's over and over teachers saying, and I know it's my own experience. And whatever you think is Buddhism, whatever you think is the dharma, whatever you think is the way, might be encouraging or helpful or getting his breath from falling down.

[07:36]

That's also well said. It's not the dharma. It's not the way. It's not enlightenment. Can we say anything else? I can't say what is, but I think At the same time, it also seems to be saying that there isn't anything. ...possible of that. I like it that way myself. That's what I'm saying now. Everybody does say that. That's what I'm saying. From the first. ...people come and go in this tradition, and now there is a lot of new traditions, and... Well, is it really saying there's not anything? It's saying everything is void. So if you say everything, there must be something to say no thing about it. But it's void. Oh, yeah. But it's void. You know, the more concrete it is, the more sure it is, the more it's going to do for you.

[08:38]

And, you know, you'll hear him talking. That's a good point. That's a good point. Yes, sir. There's so many teachers that claim to be the only one. I thought one day I'd like to have a few graduates for them. I bet if you get 10,000 years in this area, the only difficulty, you know, there's D outlining. Shen Hui was supposedly one of the six patriarchs. He was actually his youngest disciple.

[09:41]

Most scholars believe that Shen Hui put together the platform or expand on it, at least, to make it a polemic between the Southern School and the Northern School. I enjoyed it so much because he emphasized something that made a lot of sense to me, actually, in everything I think about. Apparently, we know that we, I hope you can keep on his name straight. were not really antagonistic, but followers of the schools of the later descendants became competitive as to who had the right dharma.

[10:48]

The interesting thing about these ghatas, of course, a lot of people believe that the ghatas really aren't real. And Suzuki, I actually remember, the last thing they wanted to do was to do a commentary on platforms that they never had a chance to do. And that's very important. Well, the expression is not so good. It wasn't so complicated. But I see. My own feeling about these hangatas is that there are two aspects of one correct way. One way, the Shem Shu's Gata expresses how to do something.

[11:54]

And Hui Nung's expression is how things are, how it is. And if you read Dogen, and if you read the Gencho Koan, At the end of the N.J. Kohan, this was Dogen's question when he went to China. Supposed to have been Dogen's great question. If, indeed, everything is the Buddha nature, what need is there to practice? Big question. And a lot of people have this question coming up for them today. Which means? Well, that's really hard to do. His question was, if everyone has the Buddha nature, if everyone is Buddha nature, if everything is Buddha nature already, what need is there to do anything, to practice? And this is his question, and . And he said, well, he said, something will happen.

[13:05]

Yes. He said, something will happen. And you should be prepared for it. And by sitting with this, you prepare your mind for something wonderful. Right, he's using the diamond. He's expressing what's stated in the diamond situation. ...come and go, and instead of like a psychedelic experience. So whenever I want some goal orientation, I just remember that story. Historically true, one patriarch at a time? One song with it. enough for me. Well, yeah, that's a good point.

[14:06]

This is helping me a lot to be able to sit where I sit, just sit, and not simply trying to sit with. What? Have some experience. And so I don't know how to use it and consider it without Well, it's obviously more than one. But in this kind of, this is a, this is, and it's to express how, express how.

[15:12]

Some teachers only have one disciple, and that's it. And other teachers have lots of disciples. But although a teacher may have lots of disciples, usually one disciple carries something. The one disciple is the one that seems to carry the lineage. Tozan's lineage. Tozan Yotai. Tozan Yotai Dayosho. Ingo Doyo carries the lineage in the... Sozan was also a famous I don't know, in the Soto sect, you know? Soto, toes on, so's on. And that's backwards because it's nice of me having it down to say it's very simple.

[16:21]

And I think it's effectively in that sort of way. But... In the lineage we say , but Sozan is much more famous than . He carried Tozan's mind through the lineage. But Sozan is much more famous. So you can't tell who's who exactly in the lineage, necessarily, when a teacher has a lot of students. And sometimes the one who carries the lineage has a certain kind of qualification. But some other student will have maybe deeper understanding, which is very common about. And someone will look at it and say, oh yeah, that's the master's.

[17:26]

But then someone appears over here, who is a minor in each other, who actually is more... And we're always irritating each other and competing with each other. Although I don't think that we can't be built in on... ...dharma and others greater than... Well, I can see your point. It just happened to be that people just happened to come to . And that continued as .

[18:30]

Sozo also. Sozan. Sozan. Sozan. They would recite . Just the people that happened. That's right. I see your point. Yeah, that's right. And that's what happened after Dogen, and after Keizan Zenji, the general lineage ends of Keizan Zenji. Keizan, Joki, and then from Keizan, there are all these other lineages, and Katagiri Roshi's lineage up to Keizan is different, and Suzuki Roshi's lineage up to Keizan. Why did he say you should study this?

[19:36]

Well, there's a lot of controversy over there. Some people say it's a contradiction. A scholar would say, this is a contradiction. So if you look at it in a scholar, you can say, well, this is a contradiction because you can see all the places where he's contradicting himself. Where the sutra is contradicting itself by saying, this is not good. I certainly do believe the reincarnation is not quite up to it. But then it goes to the students and says, if you recite the sutra, you will be, you know, . And so the scholar would say, that's a contradiction. But look at from the point of view of what is allegorical meaning. I guess I can use that term.

[20:38]

It has some other meaning. It's not that Shen Shu's gatha is bad. It's not bad. My feeling is it expresses how you practice. We practice the dust wiping. Our practice is to do something. I got into Dogen's, the end of Genjo Koan. that a monk comes to... What's his name? Japanese is... One thing that I can say to people through the years that I don't know where I started,

[21:38]

It's kind of written by a true story. It's an idea that many, many people come back and thank you for it is the one minute period of zombie or the five minute period of zombie. You mean the story with a brick? Like if you live here in the building. And it's always the groove pressure. But the point of the story is, if the wind is, the nature of the wind is, that it pervades everywhere, why do you have to use your fan? The master said, you understand the nature of, you understand that the wind blows, But you don't understand it's reaching everywhere. Even though the wind is everywhere, in order to realize the nature of wind, you have to move.

[22:52]

That's right. Without the first, it doesn't make any sense. There's no reason for it without the first. Well, there is a reason for it, but they did go together. My feeling is that they are really a compliment. and what the Shinshu is talking about, how you practice. In the sixth picture, I was talking about the nature of the reality. Even though there is nothing from the beginning, and it's just like the heart sutra. Form is emptiness, and emptiness is form. Even though there is no no's, what's this? And even though there's this, this nose is not a nose.

[23:57]

There's no place to stand. Nothing to stand on. Nothing. There's no one thing that has inherent nature. So it's also expressed as the heart searcher. Nothing has its own inherent nature. Everything is dependent on everything else. So there's no place to take a stand. A week ago? Oh, he was up there. And two weeks ago, or three weeks ago? Yeah, two weeks ago. Bodies in bony trees, lines in mirrors bright. All are void, we wipe them with the dust of light. With the first pain. What were the last two lines again? Baller, void.

[24:58]

And they're all over the world now. Very, very, very popular. That's practice, non-practice. The practice of non-practicing. Or the non-practice of practice. I'm not sure which way. You know, we drank very, very heavily. I have one question. In this biography, he was not yet enlightened when he wrote this. He said, well, how would he write it? He just had a notion about it. He did not have a clear comprehension. I'm sorry. Well, this is intuition. And I remember, and later on, I can't remember. I can't remember. I believe that this fifth picture could happen in the middle of the night.

[26:00]

We were talking about who was going to go pee. And that was really very sweet. And You know, he says at the beginning, when you first heard the Diamond Sutra, he said, I was enlightened instantly. Then he says here on page 19, knowing I had realized the essence of what the patriarch said. Well, to me, it seems like twice he said he's enlightened. That's right. That's right. And he's saying to this other fellow, He becomes enlightened more than once. He becomes enlightened more than once. There are no stages. Is that what you're saying?

[27:05]

I hope you don't think that I am. I think that suddenly I didn't know. It's like to realize that the inner being of everything suddenly. I mean all of this. And I thought, well, you know, every once in a while, a blondie, a sandwich blondie, every once in a while, a one-time picture of him working a table saw. And a picture is always like, if you want to cut your hand off and do it the way he ends the picture, and I thought, I could write a letter to this student. When we first began to practice, From that point on, we didn't think of anything.

[28:14]

But anyway, the practice of enlightenment, even though we couldn't realize it. It's different than, you know, you usually think. You start from ignorance or delusion and work your way to enlightenment. We start from enlightenment, and the practice starts from enlightenment. And within that enlightenment is delusion and enlightenment, and delusion and enlightenment. And there are times in our life when we realize it. And then there are times, another time when we realize it even more. And I remember Suzuki Roshi saying, we should have enlightenment experience moment after moment. New enlightenment experience moment after moment. Good feeling and good luck. Yeah. I got enlightened.

[29:19]

So I'm okay. That realization has to be produced, moment by moment. And this is an important fact of our school, is that we begin from enlightenment. rather than working toward enlightenment from delusion. It doesn't mean that we don't realize enlightenment. But the thought of enlightenment, that doesn't mean thinking about it, but the fact that we have actually entered into the practice of enlightenment comes from our enlightened mind. Otherwise we wouldn't be practicing. Could not that be a definition about enlightenment?

[30:24]

The person who thinks that he's enlightened, for sure he is not. It can be a kind of delusion. Because if he still can say, I am enlightened, there's still an I. There's still an I to be enlightened. A person who really is enlightened cannot know that he is enlightened. Well, I think the person can know. But who knows then? Anyway, it's a... play with words.

[31:24]

Pi is a kind of convenience for speaking about something. But we should realize that The eye that we use conveniently is just that. Maybe that makes a mistake. Should we talk about this gata some more, or should we continue? I would like, it's OK to talk about it some more. But maybe we can continue. So I would like us to start reading again, and if anybody, we can start from this side, and if anybody read last time, we can skip over you so that everybody can get a chance to read, okay?

[32:43]

I would like everybody to have a chance to read anyway. Should I start? Yes, let's see, the next day? The next day the patriarch came secretly to the room where the rice was pinded. Seeing that I was working there with a stone pestle, he said to me, the seeker of the path risks his life for the Dharma. Should he not do so? Then he asked, is the rice ready? Ready long ago, I replied, only waiting for the seal. He knocked the mortar thrice with his stick and left. Knowing what his message meant, in the third watch of the night, I went to his room. Using the robe as a screen so none could see us, He expounded the Diamond Sutra to me. When he came to the sentence, one should use one's mind in such a way that it will be free from any attachment, I at once became thoroughly enlightened and realized all things in the universe are the essence of mind itself.

[33:44]

You see, here he is enlightened again. What, the first time? No, the third time. Third time. But later on, he says he was not. Later on, he says, when they cross the river, you see? But does it mean that there will be no further? Oh, no. It's a matter of reinforcement and reaffirmation. You can lose it. Yeah, he seems to be more and more assured. Everything reinforces his realization. So, it's kind of nice.

[34:52]

In other words, his realization keeps being confirmed. There's another way of looking at it. And also, you have to realize that this is a story. And the story is different than the fact. The story is trying to say something. And the story is trying to reinforce certain kind of doctrinal facts, like non-attachment. When he heard about non-attachment, he was enlightened again. It's a kind of nice Chinese story. The wonderful thing about it is that it's pretty down-to-earth. And most Chinese stories have got a lot of mystical stuff in them. You know, they say, whoa, wait a minute. It's pretty good, pretty clean.

[35:58]

Chinese story, actually, about Buddhism. When he came to the sentence, one should use one's mind in such a way that it would be free of any attachment, about once I became enlightened. Well, I mean, we knew that he was enlightened already, you know. So that means we should really think about that. Oh, attachment, huh? Enlightened. Non-attachment. And then... D. Ping Tse has a commentary here. To be free from any attachment means not to abide in form or matter, not to abide in sound, not to abide in delusion, not to abide in enlightenment, not to abide in the quintessence, not to abide in the attribute. To use the mind means to let the one mind, that is, universal mind, manifest itself everywhere. That's enlightenment. When we let our mind dwell on piety or on evil, piety or evil manifests itself, but our essence of mind is thereby obscured.

[37:08]

But when our mind dwells nowhere, in particular, we realize that all the minds of the ten quarters are nothing but the manifestation of one mind. The above commentary is most accurate and to the point. Scholastic Buddhist scholars can never give an explanation as satisfactory as this, he says. For this reason, dhyana masters are superior to the so-called scriptural expanderism. So that's the commentary. Which is not bad. Anybody have any questions? Please ask questions, even if they're dumb, if you think they're dumb. Some of the dumbest questions are pretty good. My stupid question is that I don't really understand the second dogma. Don't understand. The second dogma, the good one.

[38:11]

I feel like it's saying everything is perfectly near being. No, it's not saying that. It's saying that everything has no inherent nature and that everything that exists is interdependent with everything else. It's not saying it in that way, but this is my a way of helping you understand it. It said, there is no Bodhi tree, nor a stand of a mirror bright. Since all is void, where can a dust of light? And this is a commentary on the Diamond Sutra, which says you should stand on a place which is unsupported. which means you should stand on reality. And in reality, there is no place to stand. So wherever you stand is OK.

[39:13]

But don't depend on it. You have to put your complete trust in it. So you put your complete trust in your nature. Don't you think that's Buddha nature? Yeah, Buddha nature. I think so. We call it Buddha nature. I've had a kind of an interesting train of thought about this for myself. Because I think I've been one of the ones who has been dwelling on piety for a long time. And I've been, for me, practicing ideas that have felt like truths of the universe, such as that the universe is abundant and things like that, that God is a support, and realizing, I mean, experiencing what I have been talking about. And yet, he says, when we let our mind dwell on piety or on evil, piety or evil manifests itself, but the essence of mind is thereby obscured.

[40:25]

And so that's a real interest for me, and it feels right, it feels true in a sense. And so I feel like I'm sort of going in, but like she said, I have a sense of like meaninglessness to this. And I remember a statement by an enlightened master, a Buddhist master, so I assumed that he was, what that was said, and he said, now that I'm enlightened, I'm as miserable as ever. You know? That bothers me. I'm interested in being happy. When you get enlightened, you may not like it. Who was the master that said that? I can't remember his name, but he was a Japanese master. That's very good. We think enlightenment is something that's good. Something that conforms to to our idea of control.

[41:26]

It brings to mind me, one of the poems that we have memorized, that talks about all night, just sitting in this marvelous, wonderful open state, and then the last thing he says, it's unbearable. And my immediate response to that was, if he's enlightened, how can he feel so well? He feels his oneness with everything You know, if we're enlightened, we won't have any pain in our lives. It's nothing. That would be wrong. If you're not enlightened, you don't know how miserable you are. I don't know about that. But they say that ignorance is bliss. It is. You're more happy when you're ignorant. So you have to be careful, you know.

[42:28]

Are you sure enlightenment is what you want? That's right. Yeah, everything. Even if you don't want it, you got it. You may not know it. But you don't reside in it. Even without knowing. Might as well sit. See you later tomorrow morning. Are you taking all this down? Yeah. And so we're still in the realm of good and evil.

[43:34]

So that's a big problem, because one creates the other. And it's complicated. Actually, I don't believe that one creates the other. when you're practicing on the so-called good side, it has no resistance or any judgment against anything on the so-called bad side. So in a way, there's not a duality there. In the way that I've come to deal with this, that if I'm practicing such an idea such as the universe is abundance. But I have no resistance to the idea that the universe is not abundance wherever I see that idea. There's no fighting against anything else. Then I just experience... Well, that's things as they are. That's not good or bad.

[44:38]

If the earth is abundance, it's neither good nor bad. But if you think that's good, then it's good. I have to think that's good. So why is that an obscuration of mind to think that that's good? Because it divides into... The mind that it obscures is the mind of oneness by dividing into two. Saying there is such a thing. If there is good, then there is also evil. Yeah, as soon as we divide... And so discrimination means to divide. So it says the mind is Buddha mind. Everything is a manifestation of Buddha mind. But Buddha mind, Buddha nature, we call it various things, has no special form.

[45:42]

But all forms are a manifestation of it. But there's no form that you need. grasp, right? So Buddha mind is each individual thing that thinks it's individual. But that's just a feeling or an experience. But it's not inherently so. It's something I'm also struggling with a lot because of the taking the Abhidana class, the mind states are divided, which is not defined as, it's translated sometimes as good and evil, but the actual translation is, those mind states which lead to understanding, those mind states which don't lead to understanding. But to say that, but I immediately want to say, those mind states which lead to understanding are good.

[46:49]

And the Abhidana says so. Wholesome, unwholesome, good, bad. The Abhidana is the dualistic study of wisdom. I mean, that's what it is. That's why it's so easy to study. And that's why everybody's, oh, God, yeah, you know. Finally, the guy just goes in, and you can study Abhidana, which just spells it all out. I would agree with what you just said. Because I think it's non-dual if you put it in the definition of what it gives. That's right, because there's also a Mahayana-Aphidharma. No, even the Terabata-Aphidharma, the way that Silanath is a Terabata teacher, as far as I know, he says he's never read very much of the Mahayana. In fact, he is saying that it's not go bad. He's saying there are those mind states that lead to understanding, and those that do not. And he rejects the concept of good and bad. That's good. Oops.

[47:51]

No, it's good. But it seems like, I mean, part of my mind, that's what you're saying, but the other part says that. I don't know which part. But it seems like it opens one to everything. If you don't discriminate, what difference does it make whether you face the wall in this end or don't face the wall? Or if you're walking backwards or, you know, as long as, as long as you're... That's why discrimination is necessary. Right. Now, you've said that before. Not interesting. Because... Non-discrimination does not mean... Sorry, folks. Non-discrimination does not mean not making decisions based on discriminating mind. Our discrimination is based on non-discrimination.

[48:55]

So non-discriminating mind does not mean you don't make choices. It means that Buddha mind makes choices. I know that sounds kind of like God told me to say this. But that's not what I mean. discrimination and non-discrimination. And in a very down-to-earth way, it's what do we base our choices on? We're always making choices, no matter, I don't care where you are, what deep samadhi you're in. We're always making choices, constantly making a choice, moment by moment making a choice. But what are your choices based on? Are we based on ego? desire, self-centeredness, you know, or are they based on Buddha mind?

[50:02]

So discrimination based on Buddha mind is not called discriminating mind. It's just a way of talking about something. So when we say non-discriminating mind using non-descript doesn't mean that you can't make choices. You're always making choices, constantly. It's based on non-dualistic or non-selfish mind. So a very simple way to talk about it is non-selfish mind. A selfish mind is the mind which is partial. So if your choices are not based on partiality, Partiality has two meanings. One is something I like for myself. That's one kind of meaning. The other is to part or to divide. So when your choices are based on realizing the interdependence of a situation, then it's not really called discriminating mind.

[51:23]

because there's no partiality in it. It's taking into consideration all the interdependence of life. Discrimination or partiality is to set yourself apart from the interdependence in which you exist, the interdependent situation in which you exist. So some people try to solve that problem in various ways, you know. Communism is one way of trying to solve our problem. You know, it's trying to say everything is the same, you know, and we'll all do everything the same way. But it leaves out a lot of important stuff that is... And our democratic society is the other side of that. And the two need to come together because they're unindependent. And each one is suffering because they...

[52:24]

can't come together and make one whole world. So our way of thinking is partial, their way of thinking is partial, and all the individuals are thinking in terms of partiality, dualistic thinking. And when we can realize that the other side is the other side of ourself, then stop having such dualistic thinking, non-dualistic thinking. Does that ever happen? And it seems like that the desire of this formation are going to continually arise. So are you obscuring Are you obscuring your essence of mind?

[53:29]

It seems like you have to factor that in also. You have to realize, okay, this is desire. This is arising. You're sitting there making these decisions. And if you say something is good, immediately, by saying something is good, you say, well, I want that. I want to do what's good. I want to feel good. But there is a good which includes the duality. There's a good which encompasses both good and bad, and that's non-dualistic good. Or when you say good, it's reality. It's it. Because all life wants wholesome states, correct states in order to exist, correct states of existence. I don't want to speculate, but if you look at the world, it's all coming together. Everybody's coming together.

[54:30]

It's one world. So something's bound to happen. It's got to happen somewhere. Unless, you know, and the anxiety factors that may never happen because you need to finish it off before it happens. It's got to come together somewhere. you know, even if If you work for thinking that what you're going to do is going to happen, in other words, if you think, I'm working for the good because I want the good to happen or it should happen, that's partiality. That's dualistic. But if you just do what you have to do without worrying about what is going to happen or not, without being attached to a result, that's not dualistic. Can you see that with your hand away from your mouth?

[55:42]

What's his security talk? Just before he was back there, he teaches the platform super is the merging of difference in meaning, which I think is what we've been talking about. There's difference in what you're going to call it. You've got goods and you're going to fit. So the relative meets the absolute. like a box in its lid, like two arrows meeting in mid-air. When you say that there's a good that is beyond duality, that feels like exactly what I have been playing.

[56:49]

And I'm really delighted to hear that idea. We got away from using words like . Yeah, whole and partial. Much more understandable than the majority of that right now. Yeah, I'll be done if there's that too. Sometimes there's good states and bad states, but wholesome and unwholesome states are also used as good. It gets away from value judgments. Is the actual translation of the Chinese or the Sanskrit characters, is that good then? Or is it more closer to Hulsman? I think it's closer to Hulsman than Hulsman. So it's the translators of Hulsman or Ivo? Yeah, Ivo I don't think is the correct word.

[57:56]

It was a definition that wasn't exactly good and bad, but it wasn't false or false. That was unfortunate. I had this whole idea that how it should be. But this one, I've got a question about that phrase, not to be good and not to be good. The definition I remember from the Yadidharma, the text of Yadidharma says that prisoner means those things which do not mean that. defines what understanding of what, understanding of truth, what is truth.

[59:13]

I think there are a lot of ways of describing it, and the original may not always be the best way. Sometimes it is. I'm still back to with the good. What was it, the good that But you said that there's something good out there beyond good and bad. And when you said that, I think I'm going to be like a personal God. You know, there's all this. Well, good means God. So basically it does. So are you thinking more in terms of when you say good, that's out there. I don't know exactly how that it would be that just as it is, things as they are. Yeah, things as they are, basically.

[60:14]

Exactly. Just suchness causes suchness. Just beyond our ability to explain or analyze or just this is it. I feel like we think not. As we grapple with these concepts and we go, oh, I think I see. Is that enlightened? Well, which part? I think the seeking is enlightened, whether the understanding is enlightened or not. The question is enlightenment. The question comes from our enlightened mind, our way-seeking mind. Way-seeking mind is enlightened mind. Whether we know the answer or not, you know, we always want to have answers.

[61:22]

But, you know, the enlightened answer is, I don't know. But don't get attached to it. Can I just keep going around saying, oh, I don't know about it. But in here, there is something that is understood. Yeah. I understood this. It was not understood that I could know. Don't find a place to, you know, don't be attached to anything. One should use one's mind in such a way that it will be free from any attachment. That means, I don't know. That's I don't know mind. As soon as you know something, you get it. As soon as you know something, it's changed into something else. So don't know mind is the mind's always open and acceptable.

[62:24]

And it's not separate from things as they go. can't know something. Sure, you can know a lot. You can know that. I think it is, yes. It's very simple. Because the scholars also say, how could he be reciting? He recites from several scriptures. And they say, well, if he's illiterate, How come he's reciting from his scriptures? Well, you can be illiterate and still recite from scriptures. You know, that's possible. Some of the best singers, you know, musicians can't read the music. The point of his being illiterate is that he has direct intuition.

[63:31]

It's not a matter of learning. It's a matter of direct intuition. And the sutra confirms him. That's the point that's being expressed here. So, it's nine o'clock. One paragraph more.

[63:56]

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