Recently, I find many problems concerning to religious problems, such as psychology or LST or the problem of how to bring about complete peace. Those problems are most important problems in present day, I think.

[01:03]

In our system of Zen philosophy, I'm not emphasizing philosophy, but when we have discussion, there must be some system, or else our discussion will result in anything. So I just want to present to you some system. As you know, our problem, the most important basic construction

[02:05]

maybe science. Science is very important. But science, just study or treat outward objects as an object. But... And science... will result materialistic understanding of life. But whether our human being is spiritual or material is a big problem. which has been discussed for a long, long time.

[03:15]

We have no conclusion to it yet. We are spiritual material. Our mental function is just attribute of body. or mental, spiritual function, a basic function to a human being. And this kind of problem is not solved completely. But anyway, the problems which cannot be solved by science will be served by cultural science. So, the basic construction will be science, and next one will be natural science, and next one will be cultural science.

[04:30]

In this science, there is We discuss about what is truth, what is deity, what is good. And if possible, what is holiness? But it is rather difficult to discuss what is holiness, holy nature, by cultural silence. So the last problem for us is what is holiness? What is holy nature? This problem will be solved by religion.

[05:31]

So we have four foundations. Our culture has four foundations, natural science, cultural science, and three foundations, natural science, cultural science, and religion. In religion, we discuss also what is our mind. What is our mind? Whether it is material or spiritual, it is also our program for religious stuff.

[06:37]

And of course, we discuss about what is holy nature. But we treat our mind not as a mind, as psychology. Psychology, psychological study is to study our mind as an object of study. Here is mind, you know, which is universal to everyone. And what is the function of our mind? This is psychology. But religion, in religion, we study our mind As our own, this is the difference.

[07:46]

My own mind, not everyone's mind. I don't mind. Some others mind. But we do mind, my mind. That is religion. So science will bring you some universal truth. which is like a telescope. You have a vast sight of mind, which is universal, as if you see San Francisco from Tamara Pius. you can see everything in the... You can see the past site of San Francisco from Tamora Pilates.

[08:52]

But that kind of study, of course it helps you, but you will not be so interested in the science of your mind in general, in general. Your mind in general. We are the most concerning The problem for us is, what is mine? What should I do with myself, with my mind? It's the most important problem. And religion only will give you the answer.

[10:00]

What should you do with your mind? This kind of mind is a mind we, religious people, are concerned very much. So you should have clear respect from psychology and religion. And from cultural side. And from natural side.

[11:04]

Or else you will mix that. You will you cannot discuss properly. Doge Zenji had a clear distinction between those kinds of studies. Not only Dogen Tenji, but also all Buddhist saints. There are no inborn saints or natural. Natural. Shakyamuni Buddha.

[12:04]

We are all Shakyamuni Buddha. If you do not practice or if you do not train yourself, you cannot be Shakyamuni Buddha. You have His nature, but if you do not realize His nature, we cannot be Shakyamuni Buddha. to realize his nature as you are all its nature. Now, We want to discuss something.

[13:10]

If you have some problem, some of you have problem. On that problem, we want to discuss how to solve that problem. And if you have some question in our religion, What I said leads ask me. What do you mean by cultural science? Do you mean by philosophy? Philosophy and education, ethics. Those are culture, sociology, psychology. the culture concerned about mind, our mind, not materialistic side of our life, but spiritual side of faces of our mind.

[14:27]

Do you mean culture? American culture, French culture, or Japanese culture, or do you mean civilization? Civilization. Yeah, not special culture, but culture in various countries, which is the study of my LST, I have no experience of taking LST. But that is not so important in the problem at all.

[15:45]

That is just like, I think, medicine. So, of course, if you take too much medicine, it's... it will not be good for you. But there's no objection in taking it, I think. But what I'm afraid of is they will mix that with religion. LST, Zen, and LST. There is very, very little, you know, relationship. It is quite another matter, you know, another problem. There is problem of LST and problem of religion is quite different matter.

[16:54]

And but actually, religious people may use it. But when we discuss something, when we want to figure out the clear idea of LST, We must make this point clear. Or else we will, you know, we will have useless discussions. One is going this way and one is going this way. And they will have no chance to meet. It has to be understood for what it is.

[17:58]

Yeah, what it is, it is quite clear. It is a kind of medicine, you know. The study of AASD is the study of science, not religion. What I noticed is, in America, or maybe in Europe, there was a great confusion, a big confusion in religion and other cultures. In thinking, In everyday life, it must be mixed up.

[19:10]

Religion should use various means to help people. But if the leaders of religious movement do not mix up religion and other culture, It may be awful. No, there's no need to draw a line like LSD. You can use it. I'm not talking about you should not use it or something like that. How to use it? And Who is using it? You are using it.

[20:15]

But that you is probably not. Small you or weak you. This is the most important point. If you do not know what is you, To reuse something, it's crazy. So this point is very, very, very important. And this point is missing. So it is necessary to make this point very, very clear, because almost all people mix up many things.

[21:33]

So they waste their time a lot. Not only waste of time, but also it is suffering, actually. Don't you think so? No. Some more questions? On this morning, on this afternoon, you said that you used to practice the dog and it's not so good because you didn't practice the dog. Yeah. But then... And like I said, that is a good issue of giving us your practice and telling us the next work of other practices.

[22:40]

And does it mean that at some point that the security of someone is there, you have to take some to teach them in spirit experience? Or otherwise, you can't get into the music of those practices in your life. It seems to me you're going to be some kind of truth-crack. It's in danger. Danger. By danger, I don't mean you will be poisoned or you will go insane. Not that kind of danger, but you will not understand what is that. And you make deep mistake. So this kind of discussion is very important. You know, you should know that.

[23:45]

No, no, no. What I mean is, you know, but it's that you are most... What is your inmost request? What will appease your suffering or, you know, your agitation? Irritation? and how you can achieve it.

[24:53]

Building energy, I think, wiped himself with one hand and really The other hand has to lighten, to put incense down. Is that correct? Yes. If there's no space or time, why would he do that? No space... I didn't say it. If there's no space or time, as the Lankovacara Sutra said, why would Dogen make a distinction between which can be used, but which activities? Oh, I see. This is good problem, good question. You know, this is very good. No space or no time, you know, means we think that

[25:58]

When we say time, you have an idea of continuity. Time is something continuous, and space is something white. This is time and space, idea of time and space. But... Time is not only continuity. This continuity is also time. You know, in the smallest particle of time, you can think in this way. You can... for the continuity of time, adding smallest particle of time.

[27:13]

This is continuity also. And actually, this understanding is better. If so, time is continuous and discontinuous. Do you understand? You say flower, grow, comes out in one week from path. It is continuously there, grow. But when you see the flower, You cannot recognize the growing flower. The flower stops growing when you see, just see.

[28:16]

You don't see the movement of the flower. You cannot see even the movement of the hands on. It is a movie. It is like a movie picture. A movie picture is the accumulation of small pictures. One after another, those pictures come. It will form some movement. So that is what he meant. then no time or no space. No time as you think. No time, no space as you think. Actual time is continuous and discontinuous.

[29:19]

And it is not even a time. It is actual growth of the flower, actual growth. the sun arising from east and setting west. This is the time actually. So in this sense he says there is no time or no space. What actually exists is our movement which moves in one whole existence. We are all moving. And there is some uniformity in our moving. And that is actual time and space. So, when we do something, you know, when

[30:27]

I say something, you are listening. And not only you, but also Buddha will listen to me. So in this moment, there is no need to say time or space. When I say something, there is you and there is Buddha. We must not neglect what I am doing just now, and relationship between you and I, and I am good. Instead of emphasizing time and space, he emphasizes actual relationship which exists in this moment, just now. So that is why he is very strict with what we do, how we treat everything.

[31:43]

You abuse something because you think that is some material, some permanent existence. So you abuse it. But actually... We cannot abuse anything. If you want to abuse it, it will create problems to you because there is no such a thing which can be abused. Everything is actually, everything is living existence which cannot be no alternative way of which do not have no alternative way of expression when I say something and you are listening to me there is no alternative expression of yourself for me it is so

[33:01]

So it is impossible to abuse something. But when we, you know, idealize something, and when we become attached to the idea of you, I may abuse you. I think it is possible to abuse. But it is not possible. When you do something which is not possible, you will have problems. That's all. That is why he says there is no time for sleep. Actually, what exists is what you see or what you do at this moment.

[34:11]

So you must not abuse. Or you must not even try to utilize. Just respect everything. And just treat everything respectfully. And that is our... So our way is to do something. in proper time, in proper way. That is Zen, in short.

[35:17]

And mind and object is one. Do they understand? This is a good question, I think. There have been some systems, some systems of benefit, which are not strictly, wasn't a proposer, which is trying to explain I'm not explained, but I'd like to reach us to understand our systems now as well as my work by a subject, whether we have a particular chemical or physical understanding of any subject, and of why we do things.

[36:30]

For example, why we adopt? Why do we keep our backs to this? I think that is why you are interested in Buddhism. You have a good background to understand what is Buddhism. You know, you have very advanced science and various kinds of philosophy.

[37:30]

And your achievement is perfect, almost perfect, especially in natural science. This kind of achievement is very meaningful for us, for us, Buddhists. But a Buddhist will give you another interpretation from another angle, you know, in your achievement. We do not change what you have achieved. We believe in your achievement.

[38:32]

There is no, you know, no room to. Ignore scientific truths. Science developed by actual experiment. Experiment after experiment, you achieve scientific progress. And you have been. And you will continue this. But that is the case, you know, of scientific knowledge. We should know that, you know. That is not religious knowledge. Religious knowledge is something different from that. To give some another interpretation to scientific science is religion.

[39:42]

to understand science from another angle, his religion, without changing your conclusion. We do not doubt scientific truths. We accept scientific truth. But we will give some another interpretation to it without changing the meaning, not meaning, without changing the conclusion of science. There are many very famous parables in Buddhism.

[40:50]

Water. For fish, water is their home. For human beings, it is water, not our home. And for celestial beings, water is some palace. palace like cow palace so for a human being Science is something different, you know.

[41:51]

For me, science is something different from the viewpoint of science. That is why even though even scientists have very advanced knowledge in scientific way, they become very superstitious. We know many people who are very suitable. We know many superstitions in science. You may say, how is it possible for him to believe in such a primitive religion? But some of them are quite superstitious. Science and his... Spiritual life is quite different for him.

[42:54]

Scientific knowledge and spiritual understanding is quite different to matter. What criteria do you apply to what proper things and what proper words to do them are? Well, you know, when you say so, that is the question of ethics.

[44:02]

Now, I'm not talking about ethics. Do you understand? So, what I can say now is for a person who Understand what is my mind. There is no alternative way to take that it's good. There is no bad for us. Who understand that?

[45:02]

in most nature. For in real morality there's two ways, good and bad. That is ethics, which is good. This is good and this is bad. So you have to take good instead of bad. That is moral. But that is because you live in moral reality. But religious life, there is no alternative. There is only one way. When you become quite religious, you know, there's no other way than to take one way.

[46:12]

Water does not come up, always comes down. kind of question. Because we say, no good, don't discriminate. You know, we Buddhists say, don't discriminate. Then no good or bad. So that kind of question is quite natural question, I think. We do not ignore good or bad. So here you see that religion will give life to morality.

[47:20]

Religion, for religious people, it is the pleasure to take good instead of bad. There is no alternative way. But for moral, mind there's two ways which is good and you must have some measure or value this measurement, how to make the measurement a big problem.

[48:25]

The measurement for a woman will not be the measurement for men the big problem. So if there is no religion, you will make your effort to utilize morality or to make some excuse in what you do. That is, if there is no religion, That will be your effort.

[49:25]

Not pure enough. No. You are just making excuses because our constitution says, like, this is good, this is bad. But when it is not convenience, you're not saying that. That is morality. Only you will have you with these abuse of morality and abuse of law. and abuse of religion. Religion is very handy to use. So, if you say, Shakyamuni Buddha, thank you.

[50:34]

Even a stone will be a medicine. That is abuse of religion. Abuse of Shakyamuni Buddha. That is not I don't know about this. It is not even science. We have 15 minutes now. Usually you are doing like that.

[51:44]

But the beginner will wonder what should we do. should he do with their tongue? When you sit for the first time, your mouth will be full of water. When your tongue is like this, your mouth will be filled with water. But if your tongue is like this, it's all right. If you do like this, try. What will happen to your mother? Those are the idea of precepts.

[53:00]

If we say 250 precepts or 500 precepts, you will say, oh my, what religion is. But our precepts are something like that. What you are doing, we make it sure, assure our conduct by studying. Actually, what you are doing is, what you are intuitively doing is our precepts. We do not force anything. No, I don't want a light.

[54:25]

If I know it, I think I might say something. I'm afraid. If it is good, it's all right. You know, it is idea. It is a yoga practice. Yoga practice itself, but how they, in what way or in what purpose, they practice yoga is a very important point. It is like medicine, you know. If you take it in proper way, it is all right. But... if you rely on it too much.

[55:27]

So yoga practice is not only way to help you. We should know that. And he comes to conclusion there, the whole reason one does it is quite difficult.

[56:46]

The background is particular and it has ended up with something particular. Yeah. We think so. We think. That is the background for ID. The background for ID. Two reasons. Yeah, yeah, yeah. In philosophical study, there's always... Antity... Antity... It is inevitable in philosophical study.

[57:54]

There is always paradox in philosophical study. It cannot be helped. And there, there is truth, you know, where there is paradox. There is truth. If you have eyes to see, you know, But as long as you are confined in the philosophical study, you have no eye to see through the paradox, paradoxical statement. Philosophy is good because it is paradoxical. So we Buddhists use paradoxical expression.

[58:59]

It should be paradoxical. So we apply paradoxical expression. And we do not think that it artistic sky. We have one week discussion, so it may be better to finish the discussion.

[60:13]

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