So, we started last time at number 239 and so I wanted to just explain how much of a mess there is to say about that, but we'll spend a little more time on that and do a couple more tonight. So, this is called the Torridge of Katchel-Moss. Entering the water without avoiding the sea dragons, the torridge of the fisherman. Traveling the earth without avoiding the tigers, the torridge of the hunter. Facing the drawn sword before you and seeing death as life-like, the torridge of the general. And as I mentioned last time, the torridge of the broken bronzer. You said it was from Laozi? Did you find it? Uh-huh. [...]

[01:20]

Uh-huh. [...] Well, anyway, someone found... Anyway, that whole section. So, what is the torridge of Katchel-Moss? What is the torridge of Katchel-Moss? So, after a pause... And I don't know how I organized my first discussion here, but... Spread out your bedding and sleep. So, I looked that up. It's actually open... Literally, it's open at the time. But what it means is spread out bedding. So, the traditional monks' hall, which was used in monasteries until this time... It's still in monasteries in Japan. The monks had their place where they sit in the same bed, which would include Katchel's period and also their leave there, but also their sleep period. There's a cabinet at the end, and there's a book if you go around, and I think there's a particular word for that.

[02:26]

So, there's sleep in the monk's hall. So, when it says open, it's kind of easy. Spread out your bedding and sleep. And somebody... I don't know if you realize, but you didn't hear it, but Krishnamurti kind of focuses on it. Spread out your bedding and sleep. Set out your bowls and eat rice. Exhale through your nostrils. Radiate light from your eyes. Do you know there is something that goes beyond? The vitality of the bowls of rice and then use the toilet. Transcend the personal conviction that you continue to live. So, he's talking about the courage of Katchel monks. Katchel monks as everyday. But also there's this thing about the... Any comments? What does that mean, personal prediction? Your own? Yeah. Your own aspiration? Yeah. Eleanor, in the future, in a future Buddha age,

[03:29]

call such and such, you will be the Buddha named... But then I have a prediction for myself. That's what he's... Well, there is in the Lotus Sutra, and in other sutras too, specific predictions for specific disciples of the Buddha. Yeah. Like that. That Buddha gives... That he bestows on them. And he says, get over that. Don't worry about that. But then... So, Rebecca was talking about this in this last class, and he also referred us to... The Paschal of Dogon. What is it? Juki. Juki. Which makes it sound much more like Buddha nature. Universal is not of... So, which makes more sense in this sense. It's Dogon talking here too. It wasn't like Buddha sitting and saying, you will be... Well, there are places where Buddha does that, in fact. Yeah, in the Lotus Sutra. But also, in the Lotus Sutra, it's very clear that at some points he says, anybody who takes up this sutra

[04:32]

and recites it and keeps it alive, and so forth and so on, and does these practices, will in the future be a Buddha. So, there's a personal prediction. I don't think this means... I take this, myself, as just transcend any predictions of Buddha. Don't worry about becoming Buddha in the future. Juki. Yeah, but... And Kos translates that. There's a kind of issue in that fascicle. Kos translates it as confirmation. So, literally, it's the character's prediction that are used in the Lotus Sutra and other places where there is a specific prediction. But there's this thing that happens in the Lotus Sutra where it goes beyond the idea of predicting that you will be a Buddha in the future. That relates to the old Mahayana idea that Buddhas become Buddhas after lifetimes and lifetimes and kalpas of lifetimes of doing all these austere practices and doing all these rigorous activities.

[05:34]

Like the Jataka tales, the tales of Shakyamuni Buddha before he became the Buddha, that he did all these things. And that's the traditional pre-Lotus Sutra mode of prediction. But then there's this idea of Buddha nature and that just by hearing... And I can't say exactly where it is in the Lotus Sutra, but it's there that just by hearing this, and that's not specifically to any particular person, but generally just by hearing this, everyone in this assembly will eventually be a Buddha. So it's a different idea of this. And it also goes into this idea of Buddha nature. But there's kind of an issue there, whether it's prediction of something in the future. So in the Vimalakirti Sutra, Vimalakirti is the great enlightened layman who knows more than all of the Buddhist monk disciples,

[06:37]

gives Maitreya a very hard time. Because Maitreya is specifically predicted to be, according to traditional Mahayana, the very next Buddha after Shakyamuni. And Vimalakirti says, how can you be the next future Buddha if everybody isn't Buddha? How can you be the future Buddha if you're not the Buddha now? I mean, partly it has to do with the idea of time. But anyway, so there's a kind of critique of that idea. Anyway, in this particular instance, I don't take it as, you know, as talking about different kinds of prediction. I just think he's saying, don't worry about being a Buddha in the future. Just do, you know, the everyday activity of monks. That's how I read this. Well, it wouldn't take courage to do the everyday activity of monks if you didn't transcend it. Transcend the prediction?

[07:40]

Yes. In other words, one's own prediction. In other words, it's not courageous because then you're just doing what everyone else is doing. If you're doing your Zen life with the idea of becoming a Buddha, that does not take courage. It takes courage to do the Zen life without any concept of Zen. Well, it might take courage in either case, but yeah, there's a different kind of courage when... That's the courage he's talking about. Yeah, when it's not about, I'm practicing in order to get something in the future. When it's just right here, you know, just get up and sit, spread out your bedding and sleep, and just do, eat your rice and go to the toilet, you know, just do the, and then there's this, the middle of it says radiate light from your eyes. But basically he's talking about everyday practice, just totally be there. Why is that courageous? Whoa, try it. No, no, [...] we're talking.

[08:40]

Okay, so who can, who wants to respond to Henry about that? Well, I think it's, it's being yourself. The really courageous practice of a bachelor is being yourself, which is being totally, you know, right now. And it's, even to the point of just spreading out the cushions and sleeping, or putting out the bowls and just eating my rice, or going to the bathroom. It's incredible how I inhibit myself in doing those things, how I will not be myself. I don't have the guts to do it, you know, frankly, personally, frankly. Oh, you don't have to be that humble. I don't see the humility. No, it was somewhat rhetorical, because I have a sense of it, but I, but it wasn't, because that's really what we're talking about, you know, it's all about courage, and yet it doesn't seem like this is very courageous to sleep. Well, it is. It's certainly worse than a tiger. And that has to do with what it means to be,

[09:45]

you know, here he uses the word for patch road monks. You know, I think it's totally reasonable to translate that as just Zen students, you know, but of course he is talking to monks up in the mountains of the Heiji. We practice, most of you are residents for a little while, at least at, you know, a semi-monastic training center like Green Gulch, but we're not the same kind of monks that they were. But I think that's not the point here. To take on the practice means doing the everyday stuff, the way John was saying, and there's something kind of sweet about this, you know. A general has to be willing to get into hand-to-hand combat with a sword. A monk's courage is this everyday stuff. And a layman's. Yeah, a practitioner. Let's just call it practitioner. I think that's fine. Other comments?

[10:47]

You were talking about the Vimalakirti Sutra. It seems almost like Maitreya almost has that burden, like it's like Buddha tells him this and then he's the one that said, pardon me, something. Poor Maitreya. Or else it might be a good thing. He might have some relief. Somebody's got to do it, I guess. Yes? Does it perhaps mean living in the moment to the extent that one does not review and forecast and if one could do a series of moments back-to-back, that that would be what is said to be so ordinary? It's not ordinary because our minds continuously are running. That's a really good question and it's a kind of subtle question because I don't think there's an idea that we have,

[11:52]

I think in America, of be here now or being in the moment. It's kind of like you cut off past and future as if they don't exist and we just try and be. Like if you couldn't remember anything, you could just be here. I don't think it's quite that kind of being in the moment because the present moment includes, we don't ignore karma, we don't ignore the past and future, but I think you're onto something there. Being in the moment is not getting hung up on what you're going to get out of it or being hung up on, you know, it's not doing it for something else. You're not doing it now to make up for something you did in the past. You're not doing it now because it'll bring you something in the future. It doesn't mean you're not aware of past and future, but you're just taking on each thing. And so there is this kind of ordinary mind that's beyond or beneath or, you know, not caught in.

[12:53]

It's subtle because it's not caught, I was going to say it's not caught in grasping past or future, but also if you see grasping past or future, that's just what's happening and you let that go too. And that's part of what, you know, those of you who've been in Tassajara have some sense of this maybe, of the schedule and the relentlessness of the schedule. And it's just, you know, it's not like something that's impossible. It's not like facing tigers or dragons or, you know, swordsmen, but just that you have to be there. You know, the bell rings and even if you resist it or even if you don't get up or even if you're sick and you can't follow the schedule perfectly, it's always there that there's this, there's the next thing to do. So there's a way in which that being, being in the everyday activities is kind of the challenge or the task, you know, that just like for, you know, for the fishermen,

[14:00]

it's trying to catch fish for them. So as putting aside the courage, what is the job of the fisherman? What is the job of the hunter? What is the job of the general or the warrior? What is the job of a Zen practitioner? Anybody? Well, I think when you started to say the thing about the schedule of Tassajara and the relentlessness, I get this feeling of no escape. There's this no escape quality, like even if you're sick or even if you're like, fine, I'm just not going, I'm just not going to go to that. It's going on and in your mind you know that thing is going on and I think that's kind of, it reminds me of what he's saying, seeing death as like life. Somehow that doesn't really click with me, but there's still this, like as a practitioner, this facing of like it's going to happen, this life will end. I don't know, I'm living closely with that.

[15:00]

And what is it no escape from? It's no escape from the clock is ticking. Well, in a way, no escape from life for me. That's how it feels like. Good. And John said there's no escape from the self. You know that you have to see yourself. So, yeah, so this is, so he's, so why is he, why do you think he's saying this to his monks on this particular day? What would he, what do you think that might, just again imagining the scene, I think this is relevant in each of these. He's up there speaking to his monks who he's living with and training at Eheji, and they're standing there in the Dharma Hall, and after this they'll go back to the Zen Dome, but to the monks' hall. He says, with vitality, you eat lots of rice, and then use the toilet, you know. Good. With vitality. And when we're thinking about the courage of monks or practitioners,

[16:02]

I thought of the practice of self-immolation. Because, you know, Suzuki Roshi says in activities, that's completely burned up with nothing left but ashes. So with vitality you throw everything, everything you've got into whatever it is. That's the aspiration. Of course, we won't do it very often. The aspiration is there's no person left back watching it, enjoying it, or judging it, or wishing they were doing something else. The aspiration is that there's nothing left but ashes. You've immolated yourself in the activity. You've burned everything you've got. And there's totally no room for the ego. Because the ego can't sit back and say, wow, I'm really practicing, or this is fun, or this is a drag. It's the ego that's being immolated. All the judgments and preferences are kind of... That's the aspiration, as I say. I want to emphasize that. So he's here, he's encouraging his monks to practice harder. Yes, and burn themselves up completely. And practice harder doesn't mean anything special,

[17:05]

but just really be there. With vitality, you're right. That's what I care about. Right. I wonder, I'm struck by the images of the courage of the other professionals. It's about what they don't avoid. Yeah. And then maybe in this, kind of like, okay, a petroglyph monk, so I sit Zazen or something, like a fisherman catches fish, but while doing this thing of catching fish, he's not avoiding dragons. Right. So somehow these things kind of aren't Zazen, but maybe the parts of the schedule, the parts of the life, then maybe we would look over, especially like you were saying, if we have this kind of caning idea, it's like, well, you know. Oh, good. So you're saying you can read this as do Zazen without avoiding sleeping and eating

[18:07]

and all these other things. Yeah. That would be one way. Yeah, that's interesting because he doesn't... Actually, Burton Watson's translation of the passage in Zhuangzi is without shrinking from, he says. That's just another way of saying it. Deep-sea dragons are without shrinking from tigers. But in what Dogen says about the courage of practitioners, he doesn't say explicitly what you shouldn't avoid. I mean, he doesn't say that in the same way. Although you could say, you know, and that's how I interpreted what you were saying, Mark, that he's saying not to avoid any of these things. But maybe you could just say without avoiding yourself. Do these things. Without avoiding, you know, without shrinking from your resistance, without shrinking from your own... See, I had a different take on it. So did I. I thought it was specific parts of you.

[19:09]

We're not, like, these specific parts of yourself, the deep-sea dragons, the tigers, or death, you know, these kind of shadowing sides of yourself that you'd rather avoid, or you'd rather kind of... that you kind of identify with more than being present with what actually is. And you want to kind of push off more. And even the hunter, he has to face the tiger. Even the fisherman, he has to face the dragon. Even when you have a sword, you have to face the imminence or possibility of death. Right. And now pushing that off, kind of, and being present with that as it is. Okay. Yeah, I think that's there, too. Yeah. There are these kind of shadows, and... Yeah. So I, you know, so people do this. So a fisherman's not fishing because of the dragons. He's fishing despite the dragons. And they're all doing these things despite that. Well, the general is trying, is facing, you know, the enemy.

[20:12]

Yeah, but he... Right. But that's the one that's a little bit more obscure. But the other ones are... The hunter's not out necessarily for the tiger, but has to deal with the tiger, because that comes with the territory. Right. And so the, you know, the courage may be, to put it in words, because you ask this, what the hell am I doing? You know, the thought of, what the hell am I doing? Because if you're totally in the moment, you're totally immersed in it, you don't need the courage. Or if you have this idea, well, of course I'm doing this, because I'm the Enlightened. Again, that doesn't require courage. But to do it without the thought that you can get anywhere, without the thought of, this is the most ridiculous thing, I can't believe I'm doing this again. You know, that's what the courage is against that, the rebellion. Well, actually, I don't quite agree about being totally immersed in it. It doesn't require courage, because it's not like you do it and then you're done with it. You die as a small being, moment after moment. You have to perpetually renew that willingness to die, moment after moment, because you're born again, moment after moment.

[21:15]

And each day you do these things. It's perpetual. And it's incessant. It never stops. It's not that you're dead, it's that you're dying all the time. Right, but you said if there's nothing left of the self, if you succeed. But you have to sustain it. It's not something you accomplish. It's a way of being, not a way of arriving. Yeah, I would never disagree. So that's why it requires courage, I feel. Yeah, that's kind of what I meant. Good. Well, I like everything that everybody said. And it's, I don't know, again, my feeling about this one is just that there's a kind of sweetness to it. He's talking about how wonderful it is to be his own practitioner and how difficult it is. And he's kind of giving him credit. And at the same time, he's kind of saying, you know, get in there and really do it. So there's this kind of edge to it. So I thank you all for your time. Well, I was just noticing this question that he puts when he talks about

[22:18]

exhale through your nostrils, radiate light from your eyes. Do you know there is something that goes beyond? Like he just inserts that in there. And then he talks about with vitality. So he's telling them how to live. I mean, I was wondering what you think of that. I think it's the going beyond is right in those things. But it's, you know, there is that don't get, don't become complacent and don't get caught in just being, you know, just doing this practice. This idea of going beyond he talks about in lots of places. It's not just in Duncan, but this idea of whatever, whatever, however good your practice is to, to, to, it's not about getting something, but it's about going deeper at the same time or going beyond at the same time. So it's not like you, it's not like if you do this, you know, let's say you can actually, you know,

[23:18]

do all these things he's saying that the patchwork monks or practitioners should do still. How can you do it more fully? How can you go beyond the idea of how you're doing it now? The feeling of that you've, that you've completed this. So this is kind of a sense of endless deepening of practice of everyday practice in these very simple things. So it's going beyond in a way that's the key point in this, in this sort of, in this Dharma discourse, I think that you have to do these, do these things and keep doing, go beyond feeling like going beyond some idea of becoming a Buddha in the future and go beyond some, any idea of being a Buddha now, just, you know, so that's you, there's something that goes beyond that to you. That's just the practice. It's not even you. It's just, it's, you know, it's the inhale and then the exhale and the next, the next spoonful of rice and so forth.

[24:20]

In the Shobha, in one of the, the everyday activity of Shobha Gyanso is the phrase, the monk's bowl is bottomless. You know, we're doing the same thing day in and day out, but there's no bottom to it. There's one in here. I don't know if I could find it offhand. It's, I don't think it's one of the ones I printed out for you, but I have the whole thing here, but it's where he talks about, he actually puts that together just the way you said it. He says having a bottomless bowl, it talks about how you can't wash your bowl because it has no bottom and that that goes beyond the prediction of Buddha. I find that so. Maybe it is. Yeah, it is. I want to do another one. Do you have a tiger, do you, is there any symbol attached to that or what does that represent? This represents, you know, it's together with dragons

[25:21]

and that's traditional, you know, that there are crouching tigers and hidden dragons that go together, you know. And meaning? Well, dragons are enlightened and tigers are, you know, when there's the, in the Fukuzazengi, when the tiger enters the mountains and the dragon reaches the water or whichever, you know, this is the Dharma gate of repose and bliss. So these tigers and dragons, sometimes it's dragons and elephants, these represent kind of great, courageous, enlightened beings or fully functioning beings. And I don't know that there's a particular, you know, that there's a particular difference between tigers and dragons here. It's a kind of, but it's just a motif of these, you know, really, you know, in some ways fierce but, and courageous, I mean they're courageous and they're, but they're also kind of,

[26:22]

there are lots of pictures in monasteries in Japan of tigers and dragons. They're really very popular and some of them are very playful, you know, but they're considered kind of emblems of, you know, the goal of a great practitioner. So I don't know what else you want. So a wounded tiger. Oh, that's your name. Yes. Is that your name? It's one of the appellations Rev attached to me, yes. Great. Do you remember the verse? Tell us, can you remember the verse? The wounded tiger turns in the forest, taking empty steps. Great. That's a wonderful name. Maybe. I don't know what it is. Well, we're all wounded, you know. Okay, I want to do another one. I mean, I know we can talk about this one for the next 10 years, but I just, I want to do one more.

[27:24]

And which one do I want to do first? There's two that I want to do next. They're both so wonderful. Okay, let's do 200. So our main quote is, Valley streams and mountains speak softly and readily attend to others. Dogen said, In studying the way, the mind of the way is primary. This temple in the remote mountains and deep valleys is not easy to reach, and people arrive only after sailing over oceans and climbing mountains. Without treading with the mind of the way, it's difficult to arrive at this field. To refine the rice, first the bran must be removed. This is a good place in which to engage the way. And yet, I'm sorry that the master, Dogen, does not readily attend to others by disposition. However, by day or night, the voice of the valley stream happens to be conducive for carrying water.

[28:29]

Also, in spring and fall, the colors of the mountain manage to be conducive for gathering firewood. I hope that cloud-and-water monks will keep the way in mind. I remember a monk asked Shoshan Xingyan, All the Buddhas come from this sutra. What is this sutra? Shoshan responded, Speak softly, speak softly. The monk asked, How should we receive and maintain it? Shoshan said, It can never be defiled. Suppose someone asked Eihei, What is this sutra? I would say to him, If you call it this sutra, your eyebrows will fall out. As to how should we receive and maintain it, I would say reaching back for your pillow in the middle of the night. So this one has more parts, it is a little more complex, and I like it a lot. So I'm just going to go through it again, and stop and just point out some of the references, and then we'll talk about it. Dogen said,

[29:30]

In studying the way, the mind of the way is primary. So mind of the way refers to Doshin, it refers to Bodhicitta, the mind that seeks the way, the mind that aspires to complete universal awakening. So in studying the way, this mind of the way is primary, this Bodhicitta. This temple in the remote mountains and deep valleys is not easy to reach, and people arrive only after sailing over oceans and climbing mountains. So I think here he is specifically referring to Eheiji, and they are, you know, this is, they are deep in the, up in the mountains in northern Japan, and north of Kyoto, and it's not easy to get there, and again, we don't know how many monks were there, but maybe only 20, maybe as many as 40 or 50, not more than that. And it was difficult to reach, and they did have to climb mountains, and I don't know if any, actually,

[30:30]

you know, this may have been after Jokowin came. One of his monks was, one of the important monks, disciples of Dogen, was a guy named Jokowin, I think, who's, yeah, who's had been a student of Tiantan Rujing, of Dogen's teacher in China, and then came to study with Dogen after Tiantan Rujing died. So that may be, maybe there were some others from China, I don't know. He may have had one or two others, but that may specifically be a reference to Jokowin. Without treading with the mind of the way, it's difficult to arrive at this field. So that word treading, it literally means treading, but it also refers to conduct. I think it's the gyo, shugyo, practice. It's kind of, it can refer to practice too, but it literally is treading and conduct. You can check it. Without treading with the mind of the way, it's difficult to arrive at this field. To refine the rice, first the bran must be removed. So this is, you know, kind of everyday activity in the kitchen there,

[31:33]

but it also is referring to refining our awareness and refining our mind and cultivating that. This is a good place in which to engage the way, and yet I'm sorry that the Master does not readily attend to others by disposition. you know, this is a place, this is one of those places in these texts where Dogen is talking about himself in this way that you know, maybe he's being humble, maybe he's just being honest that he's really not, you know, we don't really know. All we know is that he had these great students who managed to keep Soto Zen alive, so reached Suzuki Roshi. I mean, they managed to spread it enough so that it would stay alive. But here he says, anyway, that he's not really good at, by disposition, he doesn't readily attend to others. He feels like he's not a good teacher. Now again, he may be saying that just kind of

[32:33]

to be humble in some way. I don't, you know, it's hard to know exactly what what that implies. But all of those are possible. And I can imagine that Dogen was this guy who, you know, he'd read, he'd read, he'd obviously read all of the Chinese, you know, Koan collections and all of the sutras back and forth and spent all this time writing. I wonder, you know, he talks in some places about being out and giving instruction to the students. I think we talked, looked at one of those. anyway, we don't really know what we know about his teaching and his training of his monks is what's in these texts, in the Heikuroku. So just for Henry's benefit, this, all of these, this text which we're studying is his later writing after Shogokenzo during the last 10 years when he was training his monks in the Heiji. Can I ask a question? Sure. How does Zuimonki fit in here? That's much earlier. Same kind of thing but earlier? It's different form,

[33:36]

different format. Those are more informal talks. Good question. So that's a text called Shogokenzo Zuimonki which has been translated. And it has wonderful also admonitions. But those are two monks and lay people and it's earlier on in Kyoto, before he left Kyoto, and they're more informal talks. Whereas these are very formal. He's sitting up in the high seat in the Dharma Hall. The monks are all standing. This is a very formal situation. This would be like Shosan ceremony. And as I've said, when it says where there's a pause, there may be places where there was actually some back and forth dialogue we really don't know. Occasionally it's written down, mostly they just write down what Token said. But this is a very formal situation. Whereas Zuimonki were these informal talks and they're much earlier. Anyway, so this is what he says here about this. And to me it's really provocative and interesting. And on some level I can take it on face value. But it's interesting that he says that however by day or night

[34:36]

the voice of the valley stream happens to be conducive for carrying water. The colors of the mountain range in spring and fall are conducive for gathering firewood. So carrying water and gathering firewood is just the everyday activity and it goes back to Layman Pang's statement that that's his miraculous supernatural powers is, you know, this phrase gathering firewood, chopping firewood, gathering firewood and carrying water. I was wondering about the word conducive, what it's translated from. I can look up the character but that's what it means. It's supportive of, it's, yeah. Pre-literal. Yeah. So I hope the unsweetened clouds and water monks will keep the way in mind. So that all is kind of a prologue to the story that he's going to tell. Yeah, but we can just take that section by itself. But it does come together in one. So... It sounds like it's like you're saying that the teacher may not be so good but the mountains are pretty good and the creek,

[35:36]

you know, for teaching you and just being here and... Exactly. And those of you, again, well, not just people who've been in Tassajara, people who've been in Green Gulch too, you know, just the fields and the hills and the sound of the birds and, you know, the beach down there, you know, being here and living here and doing Zazen. And this would be true for those of us who don't live in that monastic setting too, that there are... The world around us, actually, is a teacher too. But, you know, especially in the world of nature, there's a way in which that's conducive to a kind of rhythm of practice. So Tassajara, the sound of the creek or, you know, the moon at night or the colors of the flowers in spring and the colors in fall, you know, this is part of this rhythm that he's talking about. And there's a place where, again, I don't know if it's in here, but I could probably find it, where he talks about how...

[36:37]

I haven't given a dharma discourse in a while, but I've let... But the temple pillars I've spoken about and the bells have spoken for me and you should be studying the dharma or something like that. So I haven't felt like I need to say anything. Something like that that's paraphrasing. So it's that same kind of feeling here. So then he's talking about the sutra and I think he's talking about the sutra in terms of the Buddha's teaching, but it's in the context of talking about how, you know, the valley stream and the colors of the mountain are... There's another, there's a fascicle of Shobogenzo, Keisei Sanchoku, where he says, the valley stream is the voice of Buddha. Actually, it's from an old saying from China, but he talks, he does a whole essay on this, Shobogenzo. The voice of the valley stream is the words of Buddha. The valley stream

[37:38]

is the words of Buddha. The form of the mountain and the colors of the mountain are the... Body of Buddha. So there's this idea that goes back to Chinese Zen of just appreciating nature as the sutras themselves. So that's kind of the context for suddenly this question. A monk asked a shoshan who's in the Rinzai lineage in China. All the Buddhas come from this sutra. What is this sutra? And he says, speak softly, speak softly. Kind of interesting answer. And then the monk says, how shall we receive and maintain it? And he says, it can never be defiled. So do any of you know that story about the sixth ancestor and Nan Yue? There's a famous story that this is a reference to. So again, this is all of what he's saying is packed with all these

[38:39]

references to other stories. So this is what is the thus comes story. Yes, that's right. I may not get this perfectly, but basically the story is the sixth ancestor asked Nan Yue, who was one of his great disciples, when Nan Yue came, the sixth ancestor says, what is this that thus comes? And Nan Yue spent, it says, spent eight years thinking about it before he finally came back and said, if I said anything, and it says, you know that question you asked me when I first came. If I said anything, it would miss the point. That was his response after eight years of thinking about it. And then Huynh Ag, the sixth ancestor, said, is there practice realization or not? And Nan Yue said, it's not that there's no practice realization, only that it cannot be defiled.

[39:39]

And Huynh Ag said, yes, that's what all the Buddhist ancestors have received and maintained. I am thus, and you are thus, and all the Buddhist ancestors are thus. So this idea that it can't be defiled is what needs to be upheld. So that's, again, this is a story quoting another teacher referring to that other story. So there's all these different layers of... What is that? Did you just... This is a story... Say that again? He's quoting a dialogue between a monk and Shoshuan, and Shoshuan is referring to this other story. So this is Dou... Which Dougen talks about himself in a number of places. But it's a really important story in the Chinese tradition. The Nan Yue one? Yeah. That Dougen refers to a lot. So the idea of that story... So there's a lot of teaching in here. So this is kind of...

[40:42]

Going through this one time, we can kind of... Some of this, but... So the question the monk asks, the teacher Shoshuan said, speak softly, speak softly. And that's kind of a nice... It's not, be silent. It's, speak softly. It's kind of an interesting answer. And the monk's, the monk's question to me, shows that he got it. He says, oh, how should we receive and maintain it? And this receiving and maintaining, taking care of the essence of the teaching is, it can't be defiled. So this is, this is a story about practice realization. And then Dougen, and this is kind of a common pattern, and in these formal Dharma discourses which go back to China, it's something that a lot of the teachers do, they will then say, if I was in that situation, this is what I would say. Suppose someone asked me, hey, what is this sutra? I would say to him,

[41:44]

if you call it this sutra, your eyebrows will fall out. And that image of your eyebrows fall out is like, like our idea of the nose growing longer from Pinocchio if you tell a lie. So, and I don't think this is a Buddhist thing particularly, but it's used in these Zen sayings. And maybe it's a Chinese cultural thing. If you lie, your eyebrows will fall out. That's the, that's kind of this folklore thing. So that's his answer to if you, to what is the sutra. Instead of what Xiaoshan said, which is speak softly, speak softly, Dougen says, if you call it this sutra, your eyebrows will fall out. As to how should we receive and maintain it, I would say, reaching back through your pillow in the middle of the night. Do any of you know that story? Thousand-Armed Avalokiteshvara. How does it help? How does it help the world? Yeah. Yeah? Yeah, something like that. Yeah, so this is

[42:45]

in our lineage on Gan Dongzhou and his, or Yunyan Dongqing and his Dharma brother who was also his biological brother, Dao Wu. This is an important story about compassion in the Sota Zen lineage. So, the story goes that as John said, who asked who? I think Dao Wu was a little older, asked his younger brother Yunyan who was the teacher of Dongshan who founded Sota Zen in China. He asked him why does Oh, these are the ones with the broom, too. They were actually brothers. They were actually brothers. There's a lot of stories about the two of them. Yeah, they're great characters. Oh, I could spend most of the night just talking about these two, but this one story, it's in the Book of Serenity and it's the notes there about where it is, which case, but

[43:45]

and it's also in the Book of Records, Dao Wu says why does the Bodhisattva of Compassion have so many hands and eyes? So the idea, you know, the Bodhisattva of Compassion Guan Yin, Avalokiteshvara, Kan Zayon has many different forms because compassion responds to the diversity of beings and listens to the suffering and sounds of different beings. But one of the major forms has a thousand hands, literally, and each hand has an eye in it. So there are many of the forms that have multiple arms. Not all of them do. There's actually a cut-on statue in the alcove back there. Mark, could you get it and bring it here and put it on the table for us? This one doesn't have a thousand hands and eyes but it's the same figure. So this whole Dharma discourse is also about compassion. So his answer to how should we receive and maintain it comes from this story.

[44:46]

Thank you. So this one only has two arms but it's the same figure and in one of the common iconographic forms of this figure there are many hands each with many different implements and each hand has an eye. So the question in this koan that's being referred to here is why does the Bodhisattva of Compassion have so many hands and eyes? Or how, it could be read as how does the Bodhisattva of Compassion use all of those hands and eyes? And I forget which one said it. I think it's I think Yunyan asked Dao anyway. And the other one says it's like reaching back for your pillow in the middle of the night. So I love that image. It's like in the middle well the night also represents unity the non-discrimination of darkness when there's not the phenomenal world. But it's also just in the middle of the night

[45:47]

kind of being groggy not seeing clearly just this kind of unpremeditated reaching back this kind of reaching back for comfort or for to adjust things or it's this kind of automatic not automatic but this kind of immediate response. And it's and Doug talks about it. He's got an essay in Shogogenzo called Kanon where he talks about this story. And he refers to it many places in Behe Koroku too. Carol Ponce gave a wonderful lecture at City Center last year on the subject which is now on the Chapel Hill Cincinnati website. I liked it so much I transcribed it. Great. And it is very moving. He talks and he also draws the he uses the more personal analogy of like his son his two-year-old son sleeping by them and of just reaching over and pulling the cover up over it's just something to do

[46:47]

you know it isn't I am pulling the cover up over my son you know It's this immediate response to a situation in front of you. So the Bodhisattva of Compassion has all these tools in each of the hands and all these different eyes to see from all these different perspectives and with whatever is at hand you know it's just this immediate response. So that's what Dogen says he would say in response to how should we receive and maintain it. So he's really talking about the the sutra here means the teaching of the Buddha it means that which cannot be defiled. So there's a lot in this in this Dharma Discourse that's kind of kind of the first layer. So comments questions we can start anywhere. Is there anything that's unclear about what's going on here? Did you get all those stories that

[47:48]

are referred to here? Questions about understanding all the Buddhas come from this sutra what is this sutra? Well at first I thought if you speak too loudly you won't hear the sutra. That's good. Yeah I was thinking in terms of the mountains and rivers being the sutra when we came to that part and I thought about asking the question from within the sutra itself speaking softly as part of what's going on and not outside of it. Yeah I think it is within the sutra. All the Buddhas come from the sutra so the Buddhas are in the sutra they come out of the sutra but they're also in the sutra. So if you speak with

[48:57]

although I think of speak softly and carry a big stick but that's... It's written before heavy. There's a question too about whether maybe somehow from what you were saying I wondered is speak softly that is the sutra so there's this way that the response could be what is the sutra and tell me what the sutra is or it could be giving you an instruction to put you in court with the sutra. That's right. So you could hear speak softly speak softly as the answer to what is the sutra or it could be a response to that monk asking that question. So I said this last week or the week before that anything anybody says about these stories is part of what's going on. I think that's right that one

[49:59]

could read speak softly speak softly as a direct answer to what he says or kind of you know say it differently or say it ask the question again without you know not so directly and it works either way. He says how should we receive and maintain it? I mean that's a wonderful question. How do we take care of teaching? How do we hear it? And how do we maintain it? That's the question. And to receive and maintain by the way is also one of the names for an abbot in Japan in Japanese Buddhism. One of the words that means abbot is one who receives and maintains the teaching. Juji. So I

[51:06]

think just this central story, this dialogue between Shoshuan and the monk is really there's a lot there. And then what Dogen says before and after it kind of is this flavor that Dogen is giving to it. Well I still really have no clue what it means. The other half makes sense to me in the sense that it exists independently of the people. And so even if it was totally forgotten for ten thousand years, it could be at any time rediscovered. Okay. But speak softly. It was very moving for me when I first read that. That speaks softly. It's kind

[52:07]

of like something you do in the presence of the sacred. Right. Good. Good. Good. Number two hundred. I just had this thing happen to me today. I'm a soft speaker and the Eno was advising me on hitting the drum and the instruction was to hit it loudly. And I noticed that it was really hard for me. Like I wasn't hitting it loudly because it was like this high. And to really wail on the drum was a really different feeling. So just that there's that side too, you know, what is the sutra. You know, speak loudly about the sutra. Thank you for speaking softly. This will get easier to type if you just do this. I think

[53:08]

it's also could be just a random instruction. You could be saying pick your nose. You could be saying, you know, cough. It could also be seen as something like we're getting too careful about what this means and maybe doesn't mean anything. Okay. So let's go to one of the other sections. Thanks to Eleanor's request. What about this whole first section? So he starts off talking about how studying the way, the most important thing is bodhicitta, the mind of the way. And then he talks about how hard it is to get to a heji, but that people have come. I don't know if this has any bearing on this, if not or not, but for some reason this particular, I'm thinking about a paradigm shift that's occurring for me and this is bringing the memory up where I'm thinking of practice, not so much as something that I do,

[54:10]

but something in which I live. And it's helping me actually to conceptualize in that way to shift the quality of my effort. For some reason, I can't articulate why this is bringing up that feeling in this particular discourse. So, for what it's worth. Well, I think that's, yeah, that fits for me too. Because talking about this field, you know, there's a field that you arrive in and in the field you refine the rice and the bran is removed and you need to do that. But it's not like, it's not like he's telling you that you have this particular way to do that. It's about engaging the way. Yeah, I did trouble with the word field. I didn't, is that what it is? Yeah, but I mean, is it just a literal field, you know, like a... I don't know.

[55:32]

Yeah, it's denshi, which is, yeah, field, rice field, I mean, it's emphasized. So, and that's kind of, you know, I mean, it's used, Hongshu uses it cultivating the empty field, but it's, it's cultivating it. It's a kind of physical image of, right, of fields, of fields of cultivation, but it's used, here, you know, there's this, it's talking about arriving at this field and then to refine, once you're, once you have the field of rice, you need to refine the rice. It's an actual, you know, it's another image of nature that goes along with the valley stream and the, and the form or colors of the mountain. The word colors of the mountain, it could also be read as shapes of the mountain, but in this case, you know, talking about spring and fall, it's referring to colors. You said it was den? Den qi. So the word den appears in the second

[56:49]

line of the rope. It's the same, it's the same character, it's one of the, this is a two character compound, but it's one of the characters that's in the rope, one of those characters is in the rope chant. And our traditional San Francisco Zen Center translation of that line is woefully inaccurate. It's a formless field of blessing. Well, it feels far beyond form. That's something somebody made up. It's not what it says in Chinese. I mean, it's a nice idea, a nice image. The blessing isn't there. It's a formless field of merit or blessing or fortune. But anyway, so the rope, the okesa or the raksu is a formless field. It uses the character for field. It's the same character that's used here, part of what's used here for field. Did you tell him that translation? A million times. Well, they've

[57:51]

changed a lot of them, so it's getting better anyway. Thank you. You're welcome. People who know it by heart for many years are going to have trouble with it. Oh, that's right. Anyway. I kind of have a chronology question. It feels like without treading the mind the way it's difficult to arrive at this field. The boundless field of blessings. Well, similarly, to refine the race, and this is a good place in which to engage the way. It's like, at what point are we not in the way and which point have we arrived or are we practicing the way? It seems like all along he's been setting it up as we are practicing the way without treading the mind of the way. So you have to practice the way to arrive at this field. Well, he's talking to these monks who are here, who have come across mountains and oceans to come to Eheji. That's also part of what's here. Here they are in Eheji and they're doing

[58:52]

this practice. All right. Does it make any more sense to anyone else? This is a good place in which to engage the way. Where is that exactly? Which place are we talking about? Oh, I see what you're saying. This monk but also this field of practice. But also this place, Eheji, Green Gulch, wherever you are. That's why I had trouble with this when I was first read. You have all this activity and then the second half is non-activity and it's almost like the two halves don't really match and I don't see the connection between the two because the whole lead in leading you towards effort and then the whole second half is something very different. That's right. That's good. So that's part of the point of this. The first half is talking about engaging the way. It's not like facing tigers or dragons or swordsmen but it's still carrying water and gathering firewood and

[59:52]

engaging the way and refining the rice and crossing over oceans and driving across country or wherever to get to this temple. But it's really reaching back in the middle of the night to get your pillow. That's right. That's right. So once you've gotten here and but it's necessary to keep the way in mind. I mean you know he talks about again it's like I think that this I wanted to do this one after the last one because it's in the context of that everyday activity. It's not like it's the everyday activity of Zen practitioners. It's the everyday activity in the monastery here in the community. And what he says at the beginning and the end of that first paragraph is the most important thing is the mind of the way. You have to keep the way in mind. Well speaking of reaching back to the

[60:52]

pillow there's another interpretation of it. It's Suzuki Roshi's actually word. He uses it in one of his lectures and he says that when you think you know where the pillow is your mind is not in full function but when you don't know where the pillow is searching for it then your mind is in full function. So it's not like the image of reaching for the pillow is an image of stillness. There's a lot of activity there and it's like if you think you know what gathering firewood is then you're not really gathering firewood. If you don't know what it is you're doing then you're responding in the middle of not knowing. Middle of the night means you can't see the different Like when I walk across my living room floor and Jacob's toys might be right in front of my feet I'm very awake moving my foot forward because I never know what I'm going to run into. Yeah, it's a

[61:56]

kind of image that could be there just as a poetic image. You crossed over mountains and oceans to get here and maybe they just sailed from somewhere else along the northern coast. Actually, I talked about in one of the earlier classes I talked about the particular group of monks who were in the area. were Dogen's disciples and how a lot of them came from this Daruma Shu and that northern area of Echizen where Eheji was established was a center of that group. So some of his disciples were from that area. Again, I don't think what he's referring to there but they might have been from other parts of that area and actually come partly by boat and then come inland. Eheji's not right on the ocean but that's possible.

[62:57]

But I suspect that this is referring to Jakuin in some way. Most of them had come over mountains from the Kyoto area. Most of those disciples had started studying with him at before he moved to Eheji at his temple south of Kyoto and they literally had to cross over mountains. It took a couple of years before they were really settled in Eheji. There was a gap there in the Daruma discourses and during that gap that period of time he realized what he wrote the most of Shobo Genzo. So he was writing these longer essays during that time. Once he got settled in Eheji he mostly stopped doing that. He was just doing these short talks to his monks. But anyway I do think that the quote sailing over oceans literally might refer to Jakuin. I don't think he's necessarily thinking about Jakuin specifically when he's

[63:57]

saying this but there was this one guy at least who had come from China. That was not an easy thing. But I think the issue that Henry brought up is interesting because this first part is an image of everyday practice in the monastery with the mind of the way in the forefront. Then there's this dialogue and then Dogen's version of the dialogue which has a little different flavor. Speak softly or if you even call it this sutra your eyebrows will fall out even to say it's this sutra. That kind of refers back to the story about it can never be defiled. You know the six ancestors said what is this that thus comes in Nan Yue. So this is the story that I told before Mikhail about this it's the basis for this line can never be defiled that the

[64:59]

monk Nan Yue came back and told his teacher the six ancestor if I said anything about it that I would miss the mark. So Dogen's kind of echoing that when he says if you call it this sutra your eyebrows will fall out. But that's also got a little bit of a different flavor. So in a way he's not sometimes when he in some of these when he gives his own version of what he would say in that dialogue he will explicitly say I wouldn't say it that way. He kind of implies a disagreeing with the teacher in the dialogue. Sometimes he'll say so and so said it this way and that's fine but I would also say it this way. Here he doesn't do either and I don't think he's necessarily contradicting what Shoshan said but

[65:59]

he's kind of developing it. That's just my feeling about it. I wonder if anyone here has anything to say about how should we receive and maintain it. I think where we are. Considering where we are. Considering that we're at Green Gulch Farm in 2001. Americans. I think we're all Americans. Oh. Almost. Almost. Just

[67:00]

wondered if anyone has anything to say but you don't have to think about it. If you call it it, you defile it. I think there's something else. Something new. It can never be defiled. You can be lying but it can't be defiled. Keep asking that question. You can talk about it. Speak softly so that you can hear what kind of response comes from that question. What is our life here? What are we doing? You can speak about its reception and maintenance without speaking of it in terms of the sort of what do you do to go about your life and create things that will secure that. We don't have to

[68:02]

make it into a thing. The part of it is actually the it isn't in Chinese. It's just a problem with English. How do we receive and maintain the teaching? How do we receive and maintain our lives? What is that thing they call it now? I can't think of it. This phrase, some kind of Buddhism. Engaged Buddhism. Isn't that an it? Is that it? How is that more of an it than just responding in the moment to whatever's there? Okay. It depends on what's there. Well, they're trying to tell you what's there, aren't they? Who are they? The people who are engaged

[69:03]

in this idea. Well, isn't going and making beds in the guest house and going and working in the garden and, you know, helping cook lunch in the kitchen, isn't that engaged Buddhism? Yes, that's what I would say, but apparently that's not enough for some practitioners. Oh, I'm sorry to hear that. Well, I don't think that engaged Buddhism is any more of a construct than soto shu, for that matter. They're articulating these them people we're talking about. They're choosing a way of responding to, say, people that are incarcerated in prison is a big thing now, and they feel that there's a heart pull to do that, and they're creating a container to support the opening up of that heart pool and

[70:03]

expanding it and seeing what kind of good might come of it or what kind of help might come of it, whereas we have this thing called soto zen practice where we don't stick with the head, it's just that finger. You're looking up at the moon, fingers pointing out. And it's hard to judge someone else's practice. If they're choosing this as a practice, you know, you just have to, you know, somebody tells you what your practice should be, that's something else. But if they're, if they do it, they could be doing it for two people could be going to the prison, one of them is completely off base and the other one is completely in the practice. It's really hard to say anything actually. Well, I was, you know, I would get very defensive. People used to come in to these stone office talks in Tassajara, you know, and they

[71:03]

said, well, how is Zen Center responding to engaged Buddhism? You know, and at first I would go, what is engaged Buddhism? What is disengaged Buddhism? Well, I want to respond because I appreciate you bringing up the question and we have some history about this. As one for whom part of my practice in addition to translating Dogen and sitting Zazen and trying to babble about the Dharma to people is doing things like sitting in front of the gate at San Quentin when they have executions and writing to Congress people and Senators and so forth and making slight comments about certain people who stole the presidency sometimes when I'm talking about the Dharma. You know, I don't, I feel like in terms of, I feel the engaged part has to do with precepts.

[72:03]

So for me, and I'm living outside of the monastery, so this is just my answer to you, my response to you, that that kind of thing is part of the world that I respond to. I don't think that that means that anybody else who is an engaged Buddhist or forget that, who is just, you know, doing, practicing the Mind of the Way necessarily has to be doing those kinds of things at all. So I think it's really important that we each have our own way of expressing the Mind of the Way. I remember Brother David talking about monasticism in Tassajara and talking about how having a diversity of people in the monastery is a sign of health. And so in some sense we're all doing this, especially if you're living in Green Gulch. There's a way in which we're all doing the same practice. You know, my experience of living in Green Gulch, living in Tassajara, it's the same schedule. And there's some variation

[73:04]

depending on your position, but we're all going to the Zen. I mean, I don't think you need to be going and sitting at the gate at San Quentin unless that's something that is your reaching back for the pillow. So I think it's really important. There are people who are sitting at Tassajara who are working on their cushions on things, and that's totally engaged Buddhism. That totally impacts the world. And there are people who are living in San Francisco or the East Bay or wherever who are practicing, who may be going and doing meditation with prisoners or whatever. And I think for each person there's their own way of expressing that. And I don't think one way is better than the other. And it's really important that people who are so-called

[74:05]

socially-engaged Buddhists don't think that other people should be doing the thing they're doing. So if you've heard that, I'm really sorry. I don't think that's the right approach at all. I think everything that everybody is doing is part of responding to the world of suffering. And that's the point. So this is about compassion and reaching back for the pillow in the middle of the night. And compassion is about diversity and about recognizing the different kinds of suffering. And we each have our own way that we express the mind of the way. So, you know, part of it can never be defiled is, however we're doing it, that's the mind of the way. So, you know, the way Rick and the way John practice is the way Rick and the way John practice. It's not necessarily that, you know, that you should be taking granted going to prisons, but maybe that's what Rick does. Not

[75:05]

anymore. I used to make that. And I used to go to prisons. I'm doing neither. Or maybe, you know, he practices being a daddy, that's maybe not appropriate for you. And most people in the community are very grateful that I changed those things. So, anyway, I'm just responding to your question because I think it's about how do we receive and maintain it. And we never had a chance to have that conversation, so I'm responding now. But I really think it's important that we each have our own way, and that it's all engaged Buddhism. And if somebody has some idea of engaged Buddhism, that this is, you know, this word engage, this is a good place to engage the way. And it says, without treading with the mind of the way, it's difficult to arrive at this field. So this treading, we each have our own expression of that. And to say that someone should or

[76:07]

should not be sitting with prisoners, or someone should or should not be practicing as a parent, or someone should or should not be practicing in any other way, I think, well, it can't be defiled, but still, it's not completely receiving and maintaining it, because we each have our own way of receiving it. Anyway, that's my response. Actually, I have a bigger problem when Buddhism is criticized for not outreaching to minorities, I always think, and then somebody has to respond. And that also cracks me up. I mean, it has nothing to do with anything. Well, I agree with you. I don't think it's, I mean, I'm involved in this as chair of the Zen Center Board, that we talk about diversity things. I think our understanding is not that we should be reaching out and trying to get minorities or whoever to come. But it's a matter of just being accessible. We want to make the teaching available. So if there are barriers that keep people from coming in, we want to

[77:07]

as much as possible be aware of that and be able to respond. But it's not about we have to recruit minorities. But I think it does get misunderstood that way sometimes, and that's unfortunate. Well, people outside criticize Zen Center for not doing it, but it's funny. People inside sometimes do that too. Inside and outside is a funny thing. Well, anyway, it's just that concept. Good. So this is actually all in response to Eleanor saying how do we receive and maintain it? And I think this is a good conversation. And isn't receiving and maintaining different or is it the same really? Well, it's part of what an abbot does. It's what how you take care of the monastery is to receive and maintain the teaching. So there is receiving. That's right. They're different modes, but they're part of how the practice is alive. We receive it, and we receive it by studying Dogen or by sitting Zazen or by meeting with a teacher or

[78:08]

by washing the dishes or in all those different ways. And we maintain it by, well, that's maybe the mystery. How do we maintain it? I kind of, when I'm talking to a group like this, I start off by assuming you've all received it. Just because you're here. So how do we maintain it? And of course we can always receive it more deeply and receive it, go beyond how we received it and receive it even more. But still, now you have it, so keep it well. I'm really sorry I always quote Suzuki Rush. I feel silly. It's a noble tradition. He says there's no way set up for us already. Each one has to find his own way. And when they do, that way will express the universal way. So we have to kind of like, to maintain it, we have to drop it. Even though we're doing it, but we're doing it fresh. We're creating

[79:09]

it. Right. It's never really happened before. Right. So even though it's harder when you practice longer because you think you know how you're practicing, so it has to, you know, it's always, it changes. Everything else. I wanted to just go back to what you asked John and just see if you have a response to my response. Because I feel like it's an important question and I respect the question. No. Okay. Well, I'm happy to continue that discussion at some future point. Well, that's what makes it interesting by practicing outside of our Zen center. Because then you're constantly having to redefine your practice. Continuously. Because your life is much more varied changing and yet you go, okay, well, what am I trying to say? I'm trying to really communicate. You just

[80:11]

have to kind of continuously reinvent it for every given situation that comes up and there's no roadmap for it. There's no roadmap and so sometimes you're just at a loss. You know, so you just have to continue in terms of finding your own way. And that's why, you know, the forms that we do, which sometimes people get obsessive and fussy about, but still, the forms that we have, just the form of upright sitting, but the forms of bowing, the forms of entering the Zen do in a particular way, all of those forms which when you've practiced residentially for some time, they become part of your body and maybe they don't get expressed so much if you're living outside, but there's some teaching in that that is very helpful in terms of then when you're outside, how do you respond? Well, there's a lot of support. Like this class has tremendous support for one's practice because you can get lost very

[81:12]

easily and then you go, oh, this class reminds you, but sometimes out in the world there's... But to connect what you just said to what we were studying earlier, if you do those things that we do every day with that vitality, exploring the bottomlessness of them, keep them alive, you know, keep the spirit of repetition alive and don't lose it like he says, then I think that gives you some ability to negotiate the way in changing circumstances. It's a paradox really. Doing repetitive things with life makes you more awake and alive to deal with the unpredictableness of life. I don't know why exactly, but I feel it does. There's a thing in Dogen's Ed, it's in Tetsugikai's writing about his relationship to Dogen, about how performance, I

[82:14]

forget the exact phrase, but performance of rituals, decorum and demeanor is itself the way. Is Buddha, is Buddha's way. And I think, you know, I used to, when I first heard that, I kind of thought that was some stupid Japanese singer. I think it's easy, I think particularly as Westerners, we kind of resist that. Then we can go to the other side, if we've been in Tassajara too long and get really obsessive and fussy about them, but in some way just to hold the postures, you know, not in a rigid way, but to in some way try to express uprightness and the feeling of the posture that we learn by finding our balance in sitting and then in all the other forms. But that

[83:14]

does express something, that is what he's talking about here. And again, it's kind of tricky because if you just say, well, etiquette is all there is to Buddhism, you know, you might think about fussy Japanese tea ceremony things and think that that's, well, what does that have to do with really living in the 21st century? But there's a part of that, there's a kind of way that Zen is a performance art, that we try to carry it in whatever realm we're engaged in, we try to carry, carry, receive and maintain Zazen, receive and maintain the sutra. And what is the sutra? Well, speak softly. It's very interesting, just before you said performance art, I was listening to what you were saying and thinking about Yuzur, and when I have a certain phrase that I'm trying to get, I play it over and over again, but I play it and I try to hear it each time and try to let

[84:16]

the life of the phrase come forth. So it's very repetitive, and if I'm not careful, it can become mechanical. So I have to do the same thing, but not do the same thing each time. And that's the maintaining. The maintaining is that it has to continue to be alive and vital and not just an empty form, and yet when you bring your life into the form, it's very alive. And there's a way in which we can then share and express and engage Buddhism in whatever world, whatever context we're in. So the Bodhisattva of Compassion is about listening to the sounds of the world, recognizing the situations of the phenomenal world, recognizing suffering, staying open to suffering. And that means our own internal suffering and just the people around us, or it might be being aware of the suffering of people in China who are making the shoes we wear for 10 cents a week or something. Anyway, there's

[85:16]

all those levels of it, and it's not that there's one level that you should be attending to, it's what do you hear, and that's what we respond to. And so how do we, what Eleanor asked, how do we receive and maintain it? That's the question I How do we receive and maintain it? How do we take care of this? So just asking that question is, maybe, that's treading the way. And it's not that we have to come up with one answer, because in fact the world is changing all the time. So people are dying and getting sick, and that's a wonderful reminder that how do we maintain it? How do we take care? How do we listen? And then some performance does arise. We do express something. Even if we're holding back from it, we express something. So then you

[86:19]

have to receive that and feel around for that. I used to think of Morioki as a kind of performance art, sort of like a ballet in a way. And one day Tatsuharu was so cool and it was one of those fall, spring days sort of thing, and the cherry tree out there was blooming and the doors were open because it was such a beautiful spring day and it was warm and the birds were singing and I was standing there and suddenly I was in an opera. I was Madame Butterfly in it. You know, with the So You Find Me in a Soprano. It was amazing. That's what I brought to it. That was it. Actually a performance art also. But I was actually thinking of everybody sitting in the zen room. Yeah, probably. We were doing this performance. Oh, okay, that's what you're talking about. The

[87:19]

soku is sort of the head server who is standing there, wow, this little drama is going on. But not only Oroyuki but just sitting in silence motion with this performance art. That's what I took, and I love that image. That's I'll chew on that for quite a while. And we all do it together. That's why it's, yeah. And even those of us who don't get to the zendo in the morning but who sit at home or whatever, you know, you're not doing it alone. And maybe it takes a while to get that. It's something we do together. And then we respond somehow. An aria comes for us. Some day. Or somebody I was so inhibited, I was much too inhibited to express my sopraneness there. To go back to the beginning. Well, but that's,

[88:19]

you know, some day maybe like Mark, you will really speak softly and make a big noise. Does that take courage by the way to yell? Well, this has been a great discussion and I really appreciate everything everybody said. the point of these, you know, Dogan is, in these discourses, Dogan is talking to his group of monks there in the mountains of Neheji and I think to hear it as, you know, monks here in the valley of Green Gulch or wherever we are, that's the point of it. So these are kind of encouragements and twists and kind of helping us see our practice freshly. So thank you all for engaging in this. I want to start next time with 203. Does anybody

[89:21]

before we end have any last comments on number 200? Sure. That's part of this too. Yes. So 203 is a quote, starts with a long discourse by Hongzhe who dug and quotes a lot in this and it's actually a minute or two after nine. We could read it now or maybe people need to get to bed so they can get up in the morning. Is there anybody who objects to reading it now? That's right. Okay. Thank you, John. We'll start on 203 next time and for now, they are attention.

[90:05]

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