This podcast is offered by the San Francisco Zen Center on the web at www.sfzc.org. Our public programs are made possible by donations from people like you. Good morning. We're going to have fun. Smile. So, I'll keep one of these. All right. So greetings, good morning, and welcome to all of those who, if this is your first time here, first time here at Green Gulch. Let me know if you can't hear me. If my voice goes down, just raise your hand or something.

[01:00]

especially in the back. And I'd like to welcome and congratulate those of you who are in the coming of age program and ceremony today. So woo-hoo. How many of you like to sit in the front? That's what I thought. Okay. So that'll be your practice today. How to sit in the front and not want to. So I want to start out, my name is Zenju Earthland Manuel, and Zenju is my given name, Dharma name, ordination name. It means complete tenderness, and Earthland Manuel is the name I was given by my parents. Earthland is the name that my mother gave me, and Manuel is our last name. And I have a center in East Oakland, still breathing. Zen Meditation Center, still breathing, still or still breathing.

[02:04]

And so we are there in East Oakland doing some of the same chants that are happening right here at Green Gulch. And it's amazing, right among all the, you know, things going on in the world. I'm also a, I practice at City Center mostly, but I also practice at Tassajara Zen Center. And I am the heir of Zinke Blanche Hartman. And I'm her last heir. And Blanche died Friday morning at 12.30 a.m. And I got one of those calls, you know, those middle of the night, but it's really early morning calls. And... I heard the phone ring, and I didn't know who or what, but I always feel it's one of those calls when it's that time in the morning.

[03:08]

So Blanche had been ill for some time, and we thought we were going to lose her last year. And so I did all my crying. I cried a lot. about losing her. And when I called, I said, well, how's she doing? I said, oh, she's good. She's good. And so I realized, I said, okay, she's going to be here a while. And then she went into the hospital on her birthday, May 8th. And that was just this past Sunday. She was 90, May 8th. She turned 90 years old. And to some of us, that would be, wow, that's what I want to be. I think to her, it was like, no, I I'm ready to go, because I had talked to her about living to be 100, and she said, that's not me. She didn't want to hear it. So anyway, I'm here missing her, and I'm just holding her today.

[04:15]

And her passage, I'm happy for her, because she wanted to go. And I'm sad for me and for everybody else. So this is very difficult, but I'm really happy to be here, and I'm just really thrilled when I see young people. And I used to teach, and I also actually created a school, alternative school in Los Angeles. So I've worked with young people for many years. And the school's still there, Marcus Garvey. And it was an elementary school, and now it's all the way through high school. And I was fortunate enough to meet one of the graduates, by mistake, at a shoe store. I don't know why we started talking, but then when he told me where he graduated from, I was, like, floored. Like, wow. That was so long ago. I was so young then. But anyway, I really am glad you're here, even though it might feel uncomfortable.

[05:16]

If you need to move, move. Don't feel, and that's for everyone, don't feel. You have to hurt yourself. You know, we want to have a good time. And so I wanted to talk a little bit today about who are we and who are we. And so now that Blanche has died, there's a lot of stories about who she is and who was she, who was Zinke Blanche Hartman. And so what you hear is a lot of stories wonderful, wonderful things about her. How she took care of us, a lot of us. I'm very selfish with her, so a lot of people keep telling me she's our teacher. And I do know that. I do know that. But there's a way in which my relationship to her as a student

[06:21]

is sometimes a little bit different than what people are talking about. And I think maybe her children probably feel sometimes maybe the same way. You know, when you grow up with your mother and then somebody else talks about her later when she's tired, they're like, okay. You know, like, what? She did that with you? You know, never did that with me. You know, those kinds of things come up. So that's what's starting to happen, which is very interesting. And so, you know, I'm holding this question, who are we? Who was she, you know? Was she her successes or was she her failures? Are her failures her or only her successes her? You know, who is she? And what was this life named Zinke Blanche Hartman? So today I'm posing that question to you, especially to the young ones here in the coming of age, you know, are you your successes?

[07:24]

Are you your failures? Or, you know, do you feel you're more one or the other? Or are you working on one of the others more, you know, to just look at who are you? We're going to work with this a little bit before we leave, so hopefully you'll have a different view. Who are you? So the reason why I ask, nobody ever asks you, are you your successes? But they do ask you when they see you, where you've been? What school do you go to? What grades do you have? What college are you going to? You know, all these things. Have you been here? Have you been there? And so we tend to focus on successes, you know, and we tend to share those successes with everyone as who we are. This is who I am. I'm Zenju Earthly Manuel, and I'm a sensei, and I'm here talking with you now. And, woo, what a success, yay. She's on the Dharma seat. What does that mean? Really, what does that mean?

[08:26]

And what is this life? And how are we to interact with each other if we're waiting just for the successes and hiding our failures? what we think are failures. So I'm putting a little quotation around success and little quotation marks around failures because that means it has many meanings when you put the quotation marks around that for each person in their experience of life and for each one of us in terms of how we practice, how we're trying to live in the world to be better people. And so one of the reasons we do talk about our successes a lot is because we are trying to be better people. And so, you know, right off, you're taught not to boast. You know, don't have so much pride, and especially in the Zen practice, you know. I went to do a speech with another Zen priest, and we were talking, and they had a couple of other priests from Christian churches, and they were, I would say, reverends, our pastors, and they were talking about, they said, say who you are, you know.

[09:33]

And so, you know, they weren't quite into their story, and they were really talking. And then when they got to the end, there were just these two priests, me and the other person. And we were sitting there, and we're like, we're not supposed to talk about ourselves. There's no I. How are we going to navigate this? So we don't just kind of run down this list about who we are and what we've done and where we're going and how we got here and all these things. And so... We kind of chuckled. I think we both said a little something, but I'm sure it wasn't satisfying to the room. And it probably felt like we're trying to be really private or something. You know, but we're actually practicing, like, the question. We're practicing that question. So every moment you're practicing, the question is, who are you? You know, and practicing that. And... Blance used to say to me, I would go in and I would start talking about something going on.

[10:35]

You know, she always would wait till a problem happened with you before she teaches you. So you would just go along. She wasn't one of those teachers that was just always teaching you. She'd wait till your life becomes a ball of fire. And then there you were in front of her. And then one of her things she used to always say is, who do you think you are? And I always, when I get in a... a situation with people, you know, where it feels like it's a ball of fire, I go, wow, who do you think you are? You know, and it really just kind of breaks it down. And I get to see who I think I am and who I'm trying to convey to people and what's happening, you know, what the problem is, you know, and doing that. So I want to share with you a quote. And first, I'm going to have some water if I need to. So this quote is, the purpose of life is to be defeated by greater and greater things.

[11:48]

The purpose of life is to be defeated by greater and greater things. This is by Raina Maria Wilk. See, he's Austrian. And he wrote, you might know, letters to a poet. Some of you might have read it. His existential poetry, mostly in German. And I hope I said his name right. The last name. The purpose of life is to be defeated by greater and greater things. So no one, your mother didn't say, please, please be a failure. You know? or your parents or your teacher. They didn't talk about failing. They always talked about succeeding and being this kind of perfect, successful human being for the world. This is the contribution. You make a contribution to society and be successful.

[12:53]

So we go about doing that. And we kind of hop over things that happen that fail when we feel defeated. So what is he trying to say? You know, the purpose of life is to be defeated by greater and greater things. You know, to read that, if you were to read that, probably, you know, it's like this is opposite than what I'm being taught. So let's talk about Buddha. Let's talk about Siddhartha before he was Buddha. So Siddhartha. You know, he seems to be pretty perfect, right? You know, we talk about the Buddha, all about the good things about Buddha, you know. But if you look deeper into his stories, there are some failures. There's some failures there, you know. And so when he went out, he was a young man. He went out into the world. And he says, I want to see the world. I want to see what's going on and why it's going on, you know. And I'm going to bring a couple of buddies with me. So he brings five buddies, you know, along with them.

[13:55]

They go out to the forest. They're going to really open their minds and learn about the world. And, you know, they're going to succeed on this journey without food and water. And, you know, they really have a really great vision of what they're going to do out in the woods. When they get there, you know, you don't hear about it. But Buddha has a whole section about how afraid he was. Even if he heard a twig crack, he was nervous about that. It was fear. And this was the first thing he had to deal with, with his own fear, when he was out there in the world, in the forest. And so the fear didn't stop him. He kept going because he had to succeed. He already brought his buddies with him. You know, this has to work. And so he continues to be in the forest. And eventually... He notices that he's getting ill. He's smaller.

[14:56]

He's turning into just a little bit of flesh and mostly bone. And so, like, well, this is not working. And he realizes this, and he decides, I'm not going to do this. I need my body in order to... I need this body. I need this life." So some people would consider that, well, he failed. He really didn't finish that quest, you know? He drank the milk that was offered to him. He did everything wrong, you know? And so he went on, and his buddies were pretty upset. They're like, well, wait a minute. We've been out here starving, and now you're drinking milk? You know? You know, this has been a rough journey, and you're leading it, and you're leaving us in it. Wow. And so he doesn't care. You know, he's not that kind of guy to care about necessarily what others are saying, but caring about what he is seeing, because that's what he wouldn't afford to do, was to see the nature of life.

[16:07]

And so when his buddies got mad, they left him, and he went on to become, so Darth became, who? The Buddha. That's what they mean by the purpose of life is to be defeated. He was defeated by greater things and greater things. Because had he not, and he could have sat there and go, God, I really could drink in his milk and I didn't make it. I didn't do it. But he knew something about that moment. He knew something about what he could offer to society. And it wasn't the success he thought of. In the beginning, it was going to be something completely different. You know, myself, my own life has been that way. Maybe your life has been that way. And many of the failures in my life is interesting are now my successes.

[17:09]

So one of the things that I couldn't do was write an essay. I couldn't write a paragraph. And this is when I was five-year-old's age, like 12 or 13. Finally, I would write poetry. I could write poetry, but writing long sentences was boring to me, and I just couldn't do it. And eventually, I decided to write an essay. I just thought I'd do it, you know, just try it out. Something about America. And I wrote it, turned it in, and I got an honorable mention. I said, oh, this is very interesting. It was difficult. It took me a long, long time to do. The other thing is I failed at speaking in the public. I could not do it. I would get up in front of class and I'd be like, blah, blah, blah.

[18:11]

You know, I didn't feel so bad because I had another friend who would get up. Every time she would get up, this was in high school, and she would tell me, I'm scared, I'm scared. Every time she'd get up, she'd get into the front of the class, boom, she would faint. She said, she's worse than me. I was so happy. It was so happy. I'm sorry for her, but it was so happy for me. And it turned out that, you know, these things, this writing and speaking like the Buddha, I just kept doing it anyway. And it became my life, which is very interesting, to become a writer, to have a mother who didn't go really past fifth grade, and a father who couldn't read at all. And to come and to be a writer and author, which I am today, you know, I call my successes.

[19:18]

And there's some failures in that writing as well. There's some failures. But in the failure, there are greater things. There are greater things in the failure. So if we tend to focus on I'm going to fail, I'm going to fail, it's all right, because you probably will in your mind, you know, because what failure is and what success is. And so you will probably feel that way. But I'm going to talk a little bit more about how we can work with that, too. So I think the most interesting thing is that we judge each other around them, around our successes and failures. So I think that's why we worry about it so much, whether we're succeeding or failing, because we don't want to be judged. And we don't know what to do with the failures and how to be in the world or how to even... connect with people, the first thing you want to know is what your success is. You know, don't tell me about any failures. Like if somebody started talking to you about any problems right off the bat, you'd probably go, I don't think they're going to be my friend.

[20:22]

I don't want to hear that. You know, so there's that situation. I wanted to share something with you, and I think it would be helpful in dealing with success and failure. This is from Blanche's book, Seeds for a Boundless Life. And so we put this book together together. Together we put this book together in a very odd way because I was asked to put her talks together at a time when she was very ill and couldn't talk. And so I had to really do this on my own. And I would sit and listen to her tapes, you know, or digital talks, or read them after they were transcribed.

[21:24]

And I had to choose, you know, what would Blanche choose, you know, from all of this, and then how to put it in a book. And so this authorship kind of transcended into greater things. This thing I couldn't do as a child transcended into other things. So this is what Blanche says. Be kind to yourself first. Be kind to yourself first. Suzuki Roshi used to say, see everyone as Buddha. See each being as Buddha. See yourself as Buddha. And if we're all Buddha, if we are all interconnected like that, or enter our being, as Thich Nhat Hanh says, then all then an all-encompassing love has to be our experience. And I think that's why we focus on the successes, because that's what we want, that all-encompassing love that we would expect and want to receive and give.

[22:31]

So for me, she says, having that understanding, I just don't know how to say how meaningful it is to me. and how much I hope you, she's talking to students, will have this experience in your life of this warm-hearted connection with everyone, with all beings, with our interwovenness with each other. I am in you, and you are in me. And to come into your own realization of this deep connection that you have with all beings is the greatest gift that you could... Give and receive, I would say. She says get. But give and receive, which that was some of the things that would go on to. I would be wanting to put my own words in here. But I did refrain. So anyway, so our aim is to have a complete experience or full feeling in each moment of practice. And so meditation can bring you to that feeling of compassion for yourself. So at that time when you're feeling, you know, failure or success, be kind to yourself first.

[23:37]

So what we do is really work toward getting rid of the failure, you know, or hiding it. And so I'm inviting all of us to just be with being kind to ourselves. And so some people say, okay, I'm going to be kind to myself. I'm going to go get a mani-pedi and I'm going to have a drink and I'm going to go, whatever, you know, I'm going to buy a new car. I'm going to buy some new clothes. I'm going to a whole bunch of things. you know, that we think is being kind to ourselves. And not to knock any of it, it's all wonderful. You know, if that's what you do, I'm not saying that. But I think it's important to know that there's another way that's more inner, that's more inside you, more that you can use each moment. So you don't have to wait for the Mercedes Benz, you know. You can just have it right now. So those things that, you know, we're not worrying about being successful, are not worrying about being, are failing.

[24:41]

Because even this, that quote about being defeated into greater things, means exactly that, that successes and failures aren't even separate, they're together. They're the things that should happen, are going to happen in your life, so that you can have greater things. Not greater toys, greater things inside yourself. You know, a better person, the one you want to be, the person that you feel you see yourself as. And you're good as you are at the same time. And so, oh, I am? And if that's a question, be kind to yourself first. Be kind to yourself first. And see what will arise, what will come if you just sit with that moment of being shameful, you know, or embarrassed. When you live as long as I have lived, you will have a whole... I could write a whole book on all the things that I feel that I thought were failures. You know, sometimes when we lose a friend, we feel like we fell, you know, that friend, you know.

[25:50]

And then later on, we find out something that shows you that person wants to be in their life anyway. It may be years. It may be 20 years. I had a friend like that. I thought she was going to be a really good friend. And we were really good. And then she wasn't. And it was really hard because I felt alone without that friend. And then years later, many, many years later, I saw her sister. And her sister said, please, pray for her. Pray for her. because her sister had become addicted to drugs. And it hurt my heart, but I could understand, oh, it would have been really hard for me, because I wouldn't have known at that time in my life how to help her. Maybe I know now. But at that time in my life, I would not have. So it just moved me to greater things. I moved on, and my life changed. So Blanche used to always say, just be ordinary.

[26:57]

You know, just be ordinary. Just be ordinary. And to not see yourself as above or below. So sometimes we feel below when we fail. You know, we feel above when we think we succeeded. And so her teaching is don't do either. Because there really, really isn't success and failure that clearly. It feels that way emotionally. And you can get help with that, you know, in other places. But in the meditation, we can sit with just being, you know, just being who we are in the moment. So being ordinary, she does not like to be called Roshi. And I've been seeing that all over the place. She hated it, you know. And so Zinke Blanche Hartman, Roshi, is that what she was, because she was the of Abbott, who was in the center.

[28:00]

But the titles, you know, were not who she was. And she wanted people to know who she was. So who are you? And how are we going to get to know each other? And, you know, guess what? We just got to know something of each other in this moment without a word. We got to know something. We might not know what it is. You might know a little bit more about me because I'm up here yapping, but not really. really you know and so as we get to know each other we get to know people we get to know what life really is so life isn't all this shiny stuff it's not and it's not all the stuff that hurts either you know which was the hardest for me when i came to pray it was like i feel hurt i did i feel really a lot of hurt and then when i practice oh i still feel hurt but i it went into greater things I wasn't defeated by it. It didn't become the thing that I was.

[29:01]

Before it was, I was all those failures. So I think I would like to leave it like that. I don't know what time it is. Yeah, this is good. Okay, later on, I think there'll be some kind of question and answer later afterwards. Because of the ceremony, there won't be. Okay. All right. Thank you. No questions. All right. Oh, okay. Any questions? Any questions right here? Let me start with the youth for a minute. How about you all first? Any questions? You're getting ready to do it. Did you have a ceremony? It's going to happen. Okay. That's good.

[30:03]

It's good if you're nervous and it's good if you're not. Because when you're not nervous, somewhere in there, you may become nervous when you don't realize what's happening. And then those who are nervous, that's the energy you want. Because guess what? I am as nervous as hell right now. wow, this is scary. You guys should stand up here and look out there. Huh? Okay. Will you? Yes. You had your hand up? You said, okay, I thought you had your hand up. But yeah, so you get to, unless you're just used to it, you know, you might be. You might be. One of our kids said... Well, we're standing up here and our parent comes in front of us and they cry. Well, we did. My mother used to do that all the time. And now you say, stop crying, mom, stop crying.

[31:05]

Stop crying. So when they start crying, if you feel like crying, you should cry with them. You should cry with them. And if you don't feel like crying because you cry in private, then just look in their eyes and just take it in. Just for that moment, love them despite anything that has happened before or anything you think is going to happen. You know, just for that one moment you're being offered, one moment of grace and peace, with that very being that brought you into this world, the beings that brought you here. So you will praise and you will honor them just by looking. You don't have to say the prayer. I honor and I give thanks for this life that you have given me. I give thanks and I honor you. I honor you, my mother, my father, my guardian, whoever it is.

[32:07]

And you will just do it for that minute. And guess what? You're not going to die. And you'll be like smiling later. You'll just be like really happy. Even if later they say something like, okay, see, that's why I didn't want to, you know, but that's later. All right, that's later. That's later. Okay, there was a question. I'll take one back there. Yes, you want to still have the question? Yeah, you. Yes. Well, we got it right. Just to comment on it, I think that that is the, you know, the whole teaching is the I don't know, right?

[33:09]

We know that is the I don't know. And we think we do because of the successes and the failures. We think we know who we are. And we think we know who each other are. And we judge each other, right, based on these things. And so with the judgment, there's an inability to love. We cannot love each other based on who's succeeding and who's failing. We cannot love each other as human beings. We can't be connected. We'll hook ourselves up with the successful people. And then they start acting like, oh, they're not so successful. There's something wrong here. So it's better to be in the I don't know. Even if you think you know. Even if you think you know that this, [...] you can be there. And then when the trouble arises, that's when you say, who do you think you are? That's what Blanche thought me. Who do you think you are? I would go in there and say, and so-and-so, and so-and-so. And who do you think you are?

[34:12]

And then that's when the I don't know becomes very profound. Who do I think? Well, I'm the teacher. Whatever. Whatever. You know, I'm the whatever. I'm older. You know, is that helpful? One, two. One. How do you see everyone as Buddha? How do you see everyone as Buddha? You see yourself first as such. Are you Buddha? Yes. Yes. When you begin to really feel, just say, yes, I'm Buddha. Buddha, not the person. Buddha, the compassion. Buddha, love. Buddha, nature. Buddha, like you like trees? Do you like trees? Buddha, nature. That's when you're Buddha. When you feel the love for the trees. Be that Buddha.

[35:14]

When you feel that, then you are it. And when people are around you, even if they're not, they're going to become Buddha by you, being near you. This stuff rubs off. Look at all these people in here. It rubs off. Thank you very much for your talk this morning. Race is a big issue for all of us in our society and each of us individually, whatever race we may be. And I didn't know if you might want to say something. about race if you felt that would be used to be. I'll say a little since you brought it up. I would say the same thing. Race is Buddha. Any race is Buddha. Anybody is Buddha. And race and the differences between us, the unacceptable differences I'm talking about, because we're really great with the acceptable differences.

[36:16]

We're okay with that. But the ones that we don't accept are struggle and where we suffer when we meet people who do not fit into our realm of feeling good, then at that point, you're at the door. I call it being at the door. And what do I mean? You're at the gateway. You're at the gateway of knowing who you are, not who I am, but who you are as a Buddha. You know, you're at that gateway that says, now you can use this race. Now I can use my own experiences. And of course, I have hundreds of experiences of dehumanization or discrimination. And there's others who have it for various reasons, different other reasons. I can, before those things used to floor me, I paralyzed my whole life. I wouldn't go anywhere. because I was safer in my living room. But once I started practicing, I began to see myself as Buddha, a Buddha nature, a Buddha love, and Buddha compassion, and that I had a birthright to it all, you know, because I was born.

[37:27]

And I was born like this, so it must be a gateway. You were born like that. That's your gateway. That's your gate, your door. And if we can walk through those doors as gateways to enlightenment, I think we'll be able to deal with race, sexuality, gender, disability, on and on in different ways if we can see, well, there's another door there. They have a different door, a different gateway if we begin to see this. This is not to say that there isn't systemic oppression happening, but we still have to live. I'm not going to lay down and die because there's systemic oppression. I started to. I did, but I decided I'm not going to. I'm going to live a full life, because this is what was given me. I give honor and praise and thanks to my mother and my father for this life. So that's how I walk. I use the spirit of justice, spiritual justice, spiritual justice.

[38:30]

Yes. Oh, boy, isn't that all the time? Can we keep our Buddha, I guess, nature and compassion with people we don't like? And more often than not, that's... It's the gateway, right? At that very moment when someone is like, oh no, this is not feeling good. Because where it comes from is within. Where it comes from is within the compassion. It's not out there. Compassion is not to be compassionate upon something. I'm very compassionate about the people who are starving. Well, that's good. That doesn't say it's a bad thing. But it does say... Well, where is your compassion when someone walks up and they've stolen something from you? Or they said a mean word.

[39:38]

Or they were not nice. They mistreated you. Or you have prolonged mistreatment based on race, sexuality, gender, and so on. So what do you do with that? The only thing you can do, and that is, you know, there's other things, but if we're talking in the Dharma, I'm only speaking from the place of Dharma, is a practice in which that compassion comes through you, and that love comes through you. That doesn't mean you have to go love somebody. I am not going to call certain people up to express my love. You know? But when I run into a situation with various people, because that person that I didn't like, I'm going to meet the same kind of person, right? Because I don't like it, right? I don't like something. So it's going to be on and on, right? Every time I meet someone like that. So I get to see what it is. So if I want to have a life of ease and peace and not suffer every time I see a particular person that's acting that way or being that way or looking that way or appearing that way,

[40:44]

then that means that's going to be on me. And what medicine do I have inside of me to feed myself at the time when I don't feel good? I don't feel good. Where's my medicine? No, you don't have it. You have my medicine? No. I have my medicine. I have my medicine. You have to have your medicine. You have to walk with it. You have to be with it. And I was told, I was at Tassajara when a woman was giving me a massage and I was crying or something and she was like, what's going on? And I said, they're talking about me or something. I had had an altercation or something. And she says, you have a pretty weak spine. I said, that is not the response. You know? And usually when people are crying, cry with them. Walk with them where they are. It's not that time to teach necessarily. But I appreciated what she said because I had to go and sit with what weak spine meant, what it meant, what she was trying to tell me.

[41:46]

I don't have any medicine. I was like empty. I'm not even using the practice. I'm sitting, sitting, sitting, but I'm not using it. I'm not using anything that's being said or done, even my sitting. The wisdom in my own bones are being used. So we are here, and when we do that, we can do it together. We all can learn how to do that with each other. We can change things. We can shift. And if, I mean, I feel like I have shifted things in my own family. You can just start with your own family. Because I was like, when I told them, I took a long time before I told them I was doing, you know, I'm doing Buddha's teaching. You know, they didn't know Buddha. You know, Buddha. Excuse me? What happened to church? You know? What? And then to keep going, you know, and then to have my elder sister arrive to see my head shaved and love me. Amazing.

[42:48]

This is an amazing practice. I was standing up straight. My spine was straight when she saw my head shaved. So I was sent down. That was inside of me. And then what did she say? Oh, I would look just like you if I shaved my head. I would always want to be shaved, shave my head. Well, she hasn't shaved it yet. She's not going to shave her head. But that's how it works. You know, that's how it works. You know, and this is a sister we would, I struggled with. And we're just like, we're all of us are close. All my sisters, we're all close despite. to struggle, but to see her come and need to stand in front of her bald, you know, wearing, putting on clothes that made no sense to her. Not what in the house, she's just there representing, you know, the family. The family didn't come.

[43:51]

So, you know, and she keeps coming. So, they're good. I'm watching it, you know, fun. Because they're domains. I think that's good. Thank you for listening to this podcast offered by the San Francisco Zen Center. Our programs are made possible by the donations we receive. Please help us to continue to realize and actualize the practice of giving by offering your financial support. For more information, visit sfzc.org. and click giving. May we fully enjoy the Dharma.

[44:34]

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