We'll now begin today's Dharma talk offered by senior Dharma teacher, Agent Linda Ruth Cutts. Please chant the opening verse with me, which should appear on your screen now. An unsurpassed, penetrating and perfect Dharma is rarely met with even in a hundred thousand million Kalpas. Having it to see and listen to, to remember and accept. I vow to taste the truth of the Tathagata's words. Good morning, everyone. I am very happy to be here this morning to be able to talk with you, have our Dharma discussion, and continue our study of the Lotus Sutra.

[17:59]

Some of you may not know, but a number of people, a couple hundred people or more, are participating in a January intensive that includes participants from the United States of America and Europe, and I'm not sure what other countries, and were studying the Lotus Sutra. So My talk today will be devoted to taking a look at chapter 25, which is considered, it's kind of one of the more beloved chapters of the Lotus Sutra, and it stands alone and is chanted by itself. Oftentimes, perhaps the only thing that someone might have chanted

[19:05]

would have been chapter 25. So we're going to take a look at that chapter and how to practice with that and what the teachings are of that. However, before we, or as part of looking at chapter 25, I just wanted to say that on January 15th, we had a... memorial service, commemorating, maybe I could say more clearly, commemorating the birthday of Dr. Martin Luther King. And in the Zendo, I actually didn't know what this was going to happen. We played through the audio part of the I Have a Dream speech. I don't think it was the entire speech. And I want to dedicate this talk about the 25th chapter to Dr. Martin Luther King and his work and his vision and his not forgetting his sufferings and those who walked with him

[20:33]

And still walk with him. Because I feel this 25th chapter is about being in the world. And facing our suffering, facing the suffering of others, feeling it, listening and responding. And I also want to include the fact that not only the United States of America is affected by the rampaging mob that stormed the Capitol, people died, people were threatened, people were traumatized and hurt. And how do we How do we practice with this?

[21:34]

How do we work with this? How do we take care of ourself when these threats of violence and delusionary upheaval are right there in our everyday life, not in some mythical time? So I want us to not forget these times that we're living in and especially the clarity with which I've been reading people's understanding of the underpinnings of what happened. The beliefs, the delusional beliefs in white supremacy and hatred and fear. But let's not stop there. let's nor write off millions of people from our heart.

[22:38]

What is the practice of meeting these kinds of circumstances? So please help me to ground this talk in our real everyday life. and the difficulties that we face. And how can chapter 25 help us? So I wanted to just briefly say something about the history of the Lotus Sutra. It was written over about 700 years. So it probably the first and scholars can see the layers of the language used in various ways to ferret out these layers of time.

[23:44]

And the first 11 chapters were probably written between the first century BCE, before the Common Era. And Probably those first sections were finished about 250 Kamene era. The whole Lotus Utre was finished except for one chapter. The 12th chapter was added probably in the 500s. The chapter called Devadatta about the Buddha's rascal of a cousin. So chapter 1 through 11, probably 100 BCE to about 50 BCE. Chapters 12 to 15 in about 100 common era. Chapters 16 to 27 around 150 common era.

[24:49]

So this chapter 25 probably written, you know, Thousands of years ago, yes? The chapter 25 is called various translations. One is the universal gateway of Avalokiteshvara Bodhisattva. Another is the all-sidedness, the all-sidedness of the regardor. of the cries of the world. Regarder of the cries of the world is a translation of the name of the Bodhisattva of infinite compassion. So Avalokiteshvara guanyin in Chinese, kanon in Japanese. And also there's other ways that this Bodhisattva of infinite compassion is referred to in the Heart Sutra.

[25:55]

It's kanji zai. and sometimes it's kanzeyon. This is all referring to the same Bodhisattva of Infinite Compassion and turning the name in different ways. Kanon is seeing, observing, regarding, and on is sound. The sound seer or the sound regarders, kanon or guanyin. But kanzeyon is regardor of the cries of the world or one who hears the cries of the world. That's the name of this bodhisattva of infinite compassion. This practice of listening, listening to suffering, listening to the cries of the world, listening to these calls. Suzuki Roshi mentions Chapter 25 of the Lotus Sutra in the transcriptions of his talks on the Lotus Sutra.

[27:05]

And it's very interesting what he says. He learned Chapter 25 because his mother chanted it a lot, chanted it daily. And she just would be going about her life in the home. She was a temple, wife of a temple priest, and would chant this sutra, which calls on the Bodhisattva of Infinite Compassion for help. And Suzuki Roshi says he didn't really... He learned it by heart just by listening. But when he got older, maybe around 11 or 12, he says he understood more what she was saying, and he didn't like it. It sounded like she was being very superstitious.

[28:06]

And those of you who've read it already know what I mean, and I'll bring it up in this talk for those of you who haven't read it. But he felt she was being superstitious. And he didn't like it. So he goes on to say, actually, one of the students in this lecture asks him, did your mother have faith in the Lotus Sutra? Is that why she was chanting? Because she had faith. And he basically said he didn't know if it was faith, but it was more like a prayer. And a prayer is prego, you know, a prayer is, I pray for something. May it be so, calling out for something, for help, a kind of prayer. And then he talks about their life during this time.

[29:09]

This was in the Meiji period, which went from 1868 to 1912. And this was a very difficult time for Buddhism in Japan. There was a withdrawal of support for Buddhist priests. The priest before Suzuki Roshi's father had to sell off land in order to have some kind of income. People were not donating. And also it was a time when priests were allowed to, pressured to marry after, you know, thousand years of a celibate priesthood, this change in the culture happened. And I think it was very hard on those early families. And they were very poor. Suzuki Roshi said when it rained, they didn't have money to fix the roof.

[30:10]

They had to wear, hold umbrellas inside the house. And the tatami mat was all ruined and broken. And he didn't have the same kind of clothing to wear to school for festival days and these kinds of things. So he said it was hard for him. But in thinking about his mother, he realized it must have been very, very hard for her during this time. And she chanted, the 25th chapter, the universal gateway, universal gateway of the Bodhisattva of infinite compassion. And perhaps as often chanting something, repeating something, knowing something by heart and chanting it over and over, this can be, can meet us

[31:13]

can soothe us, can comfort us, can work with our trauma of our life in a very skillful way. So that's just a little background about Suzuki Roshi's connection with this chapter 25. So what is the chapter about? It starts out. This is chapter 25. So a lot of the Lotus Sutra has gone on before this. And there's a personage, a very important Buddha who shows up right at the end of the chapter that was introduced before that I'll say something about. But

[32:14]

It starts out with a bodhisattva whose name is Akshayamati, which translates as infinite mind or infinite thought or endless intent. You know, there's so many translations of the sutra into English, and also there were many translations made, you know, up until the 400s when Kumarajiva translated it in a very eloquent, beautiful way. There were many translations, but after that, Kumarajiva's translation was used. Anyway, this Bodhisattva asks the Buddha, why is Regarder of the Cries of the World called by that name? So it starts out with, this question, why that name? Why is that name, the name of this Bodhisattva?

[33:17]

And the Buddha then begins the chapter 25 with saying how it is that this Bodhisattva has this name. Now, I wanted to go back. This was very helpful for me. the one who hears the cries of the world, this bodhisattva is in other sutras, in the Heart Sutra, in the first line of the Heart Sutra, in the Flower Garland Avatamsaka Sutra, when Sudhana is going around to different bodhisattvas to ask how to lead a bodhisattva life. Sudhana calls on Avalokiteshvara and asks, And in this part, this is now Avatama Saka Sutra, but I think it's background. This Mahayana Sutra is background for Chapter 25. Chapter 25 flows from these teachings and vows of the Bodhisattva of Infinite Compassion.

[34:28]

So I'm going to read from the Avatama Saka Sutra, the Flower Ornament Sutra. Sudhana, who's this pilgrim, comes upon Avalokiteshvara sitting by these streams and springs on a boulder and asks how first he was welcomed by the Bodhisattva. And and then he says How do you practice the Bodhisattva way? Basically, I've set my mind to practice the Bodhisattva way. Please tell me how to carry this practice forward to enlightened beings, to save beings. And Avalokiteshvara says, Noble one, I have set my mind on supreme perfect enlightenment.

[35:33]

but I do not know how to learn and carry out the practice of enlightening beings. This is what Sudhana said, and Avalokiteshvara said, it is good that you are aspiring to this. I know a way, Avalokiteshvara knows a way, Guanyin knows a way, of enlightening practice called Undertaking great compassion without delay. That's Avalokiteshvara's practice. Undertaking great compassion without delay. And what this does is guides beings. And I'm dedicated to protecting and guiding beings and communicating to them. And I appear, says Kwan Yin, says Avalokiteshvara, I appear in the midst of the activities of all sentient beings without leaving the presence of the Buddha.

[36:40]

So this Bodhisattva does not leave Buddha nature in some way or the presence of Buddhas, but enters into the midst of daily activities. And I do this by four means. And this Dogen, there's a fascicle of Dogen about these four methods, kind speech, generosity, kind speech, beneficial action, and identity action. So this is where that originates in Avatamsaka Sutra. And I appear in various forms. And I take care of, I have inconceivable forms. I take care of them and develop beings by speaking to them according to their mentalities, showing conduct according to their inclinations.

[37:43]

And I magically produce forms and teach them doctrines commensurate with their interests and inspire them to accumulate good qualities according to their mentalities. And I appear to them in any form that's part of their conditions. Their families, I come in that form. And by living together with them. This is perfecting the practice of unhesitating compassion. I vowed to be a refuge for all beings. to free them from fears, calamity, threat, confusion, bondage, attacks on their lives, insufficiency of means to support life, inability to make a living, ill repute, the perils of life, intimidation by the crowd,

[39:01]

death, miserable conditions, unknown hardships, servitude, separation from loved ones, living with the uncongenial, physical violence, mental violence, sorrow, depression. I have undertaken a vow to be a refuge for all beings. from these fears and perils. So this is Avalokiteshvara, the Bodhisattva of Infinite Compassion, naming, listing these things that these are present. They were present thousands of years ago. They are present this very day. You know, insufficient means to support life. servitude, physical, mental violence, depression, and with unhindered, unhesitating compassion without delay, I vow to guide beings and help beings and take any form that's going to help them, any form.

[40:20]

Now, this is also Avatamsaka Sutra, and it has to do with the 25th chapter, Avalokiteshvara then says, I also have caused a way of remembrance to appear in all worlds to extinguish the fears of all beings. I've caused my name to be known in all worlds to drive away fears of all beings. And I've caused the tranquility of all beings in endless forms to appear in my body, in the body of compassion, to communicate to all beings individually according to this time. And this releases them from fears. So this, not only did Avalokiteshvara make this deep vow,

[41:26]

For compassion without delay. Unhesitating compassion. And to take any form that's necessary. But also this added thing of my name. I will cause my name to be known. And if you call my name. This is one way to remember. To remember what? To remember compassion, infinite compassion, unhindered compassion without delay. To remember that because we do forget. Yes? So this is background to the 25th chapter of the Lotus Sutra. This is these...

[42:28]

vows, which the Buddha then, when the Bodhisattva of Infinite Thoughts says, how come the Bodhisattva is called Regarder of the Cries of the World? How come? And the Buddha then answers that this Bodhisattva made deep vows. And I think I just read about these vows that this Buddha, this Bodhisattva made to be with beings in any way, shape, or form that they need. So in the Lotus Sutra, they traditionally say there's 23 forms, but it's really myriad forms. And I think you've seen figures of the Bodhisattva of Infinite Compassion. One form has a thousand... hands and arms and on each hand is an eye, the eye of wisdom.

[43:34]

So you have these thousand arms, each hand with an eye and then the hands are holding implements that can be used to meet beings where they're at. That's the only way to meet beings is where they're at. If we're way out ahead of them and talking about things they have, don't know what's going on, we may lose people. We have to be there with beings where they're at and speak in ways. This is skillful means. This is one of the main teachings of the 25th chapter is is skillful means and combining wisdom and skillful means and wisdom whose heart is compassion and skillful means is responding appropriately in all universally.

[44:41]

That's why it's called the universal gateway or the all-sidedness There's not stuck in one way, one formula. This was very helpful that one time. I'll try that one again. Or I'll bring this up or treat this person like I treated that other person or talk with them in the same way. No, that was for that time, that place, that time. those inclinations, those tendencies, that family. So the Bodhisattva of Infinite Compassion takes any form. Now, one thing about this particular sutra, chapter of the sutra, and Suzuki Roshi said, you know,

[45:47]

He was concerned his mother was superstitious. And I wanted to say something about and read to you, I think, some of the verses, which this chanting of the verse section of chapter 25 is something that's done in Soto temples. And I remember Akiba Roshi was asked, Japanese priest who lives in the East Bay, you know, what he missed about, you know, Japanese temple life. And he said, chanting the 25th chapter of the Lotus Sutra. So this is a beloved teaching. And also, you know, there's this repetition and... So I just wanted to read to you a few of the verse sections and also come back to another teaching that's here.

[46:57]

So the Buddha says, listen to the deeds of Avalokiteshvara, aptly responding in every quarter, who with immense vow, Deep as oceans, which we just read about from the Avatamsaka Sutra, through kalpas beyond reckoning, eons and eons has served many thousands of millions of Buddhists, bringing forth this great pure vow. Hearing the name or seeing the form of Avalokiteshvara with mindful remembrance, is not in vain, for the woes of existence can thus be relieved. And then there's this list, which are traditional, the kind of traditional horrible things that can happen to you.

[48:02]

And so the sutra brings those up. Even if someone with harmful intent should push you into a fiery pit, By mindfully invoking Avalokiteshvara's power, the pit of fire will turn into a pool. Now I can imagine some of you and Suzuki Roshi as a young person thinking, wait a minute, if I fall into a fiery pit, I'm going to get burned. It doesn't matter if I call on Avalokiteshvara or recite the Bodhisattva's name. what are you talking about? You know, that's superstitious. Or that's like some magical thinking. If you fall in a fiery pit, you know. So the fiery pit, it can be, you know, it's talked about as an actual fiery pit.

[49:03]

And when this chapter 25 is rendered iconographically, You can see all these things that are mentioned, fiery pits and being attacked by demons and pushed off of mountains. And it's all in a big, you know, can be found in scrolls. But what's another kind of fiery pit that we can be pushed into? Has anyone felt like they've been pushed into a fiery pit of rage and anger and anger? unbelievable, you know, feelings, strong feelings of hatred maybe you might, revenge. Has this been coming up for anybody? Have we noticed that upon seeing something or reading something or hearing someone speak,

[50:05]

that we are filled with the fire of anger and hatred and fear. And not only us personally, but our groups of people, you know, falling into the fiery pit. So I I do feel this sutra is not just talking about some magical saving in a fiery pit, but the fiery pit of our own heart turning, turning in a way that is not in alignment with our vows. Catching ourselves. And this next one, if cast adrift on a vast sea, menaced by dragons, fish, and demons, by mindfully invoking Avalokiteshvara's power, the billowing waves cannot drown you.

[51:20]

So what are the billowing waves that drowned us? The billowing waves of ill will and aversion, disgust. The billowing waves of... resentment, resentment that comes up and fills us over and over. We can't let go of. How about in the midst of that, this sutra, this chapter is saying, call forth the power of infinite compassion. Sincerely, If it's not sincere, if it's like, well, maybe I'll try that. If it's, I need help. This is one of the cries of the world. I need help to face and meet my life and what's happening and the trauma of these times and the traumas of my family and my community and my culture.

[52:36]

You know, can we... Invoke infinite compassion, call it up, call for it. That's what this 25th chapter is saying. So these traditional things, fire, drowning, being attacked by bandits, being, you know, evildoers wanting to poison you. And these are all mentioned, these are all chanted. And, you know, Tenshin Roshi didn't want us to start chanting this without a little commentary, because I think it may be difficult to just jump into this without some kind of grounding in the vows and practices of infinite compassion and unhesitating compassion as our inspiration.

[53:48]

Otherwise, we may turn from this, like this isn't for me, this is weird, in such a way that we reject a practice that can meet us in our distress. in our suffering. That's what it's about. Calling upon infinite compassion to be with us. And when we do that with sincerity and sometimes it's our last, we have nothing left but to just call for help and ask compassion to help, ask for compassion. for this mind that's so filled with no will, let's say, or greed or strong desires or so deluded. So this calling out and asking will be responded to.

[54:51]

This is one of our teachings of inquiry and response come up together. And the form it takes of this response, because infinite compassion comes immediately, You don't know what form it will come in. It could come in the form of your own heart opening. It could come in the form of a thought that is coming from your own, you know, inside you rather than looking outside. Where is it going to come from? Where is Avalokiteshvara? I don't see him or her. Infinite compassion comes in all forms. And sometimes we don't recognize it's imperceptible, but we were met. Sometimes we know when someone was there for us and guiding us and listening to us.

[55:58]

But the response can come in the way that you need it. And that's part of the 25th chapter. After talking about, you know, surrounded by raging beasts with fangs and claws, by mindfully invoking Avalokiteshvara's power, they will quickly scatter in all direction. What for us is fangs and claws? that have a grip on us, you know, habitual ways of thinking and acting and treating people, addictions of all kinds. Do we feel like we've got fangs and claws in us? Venomous steaks and scorpions, et cetera, et cetera. Clouds of thunder and lightning strike.

[57:07]

Hailstones fall. The hate of hails, you know, falling hailstones. So when living beings suffer hardships burdened by immeasurable woes, the power of Avalokiteshvara's wondrous wisdom. This is where we connect compassion and wisdom. It's not a compassion that's sentimental or Or nice. Or sweet. This is fierce compassion that takes any form. And the form may not be even anything you like. Like somebody shaking you. Or taking something from you. Your car keys maybe. That's fierce compassion that takes any form. It's not. Sometimes we conflate. niceness or sweetness with compassion, which it often looks like iconographically, but there's figures of the bodhisattva of infinite compassion with 11 heads, and some of them are very fierce and scary, and that's what we sometimes need, and that's what beings need.

[58:26]

Beings who are hurting others and cruel to others may need a face of complete and utter fierceness, which protects beings. Like Dharma protectors often have these fierceness, fierce countenances, whatever we need. It's not nice. It may be nice if we need that. So... It goes on to say, if you need, in the 25th chapter, it says, if you need Avalokiteshvara to come in a particular form, in the form of a Buddha, infinite compassion will come in that form. If you need it as a general, it'll come as a general. If you need it as a young child, it'll come as, infinite compassion will come how you need it.

[59:35]

You need it as a man, as a woman, young, old. And I would venture to say, you know, I just read that all these humane societies and SPCAs, I have hardly any doggies and cats left because people during the pandemic are adopting animals. And I would say, you know, they're emptying out these animals. These facilities, if you need it in the form of a kitty cat, it will come in the form of a kitty cat. What do we need to meet our suffering? So anything goes. There's nothing, you know. So this is kind of a hard teaching, but this is in the 25th chapter. Now, there's another... part in the 25th chapter that I want to mention, which is that infinite compassion, Avalokiteshvara, after this chapter is recited, and the end of it, I'll end with how it ends, but the Bodhisattva

[61:05]

of infinite thought says he gets it and he says, I want to make offerings to the Bodhisattva of infinite compassion for these deep vows and for being there to guide and protect and come to people's aid when they call on you. I want to make offerings to you. And so this Bodhisattva was wearing this necklace of pearls or jewels. He takes off the necklace. Bodhisattvas often have great, wonderful adornments. They're not monks and nuns. They can take that form, but they're often depicted with, you know, jewels and headdresses. Anyway, this Bodhisattva takes off his necklace and offers it as a gift to Guan Yin, who is the female form. And Avalokiteshvara, Kanon, Guan Yin, says basically she refuses.

[62:14]

She won't receive it. And he offers again that please take this offering for the sake of the many beings. Please take this gift. And she refuses again to receive this offering. And then the Buddha kind of, Shakyamuni Buddha intercedes and says to Guan Yin, please take this gift for the sake of beings. Just receive this offering. So she takes it and she divides this necklace in two, two parts. And she gives one necklace, part of the necklace to Shakyamuni Buddha. And she gives the other half, to this Buddha that has appeared earlier in the Sutra, we're already near the end, whose name is Abundant Treasures or Many Treasures. And this Buddha, in one of the more fantastically wonderful chapters of the Lotus, appears in this stupa way high in the sky and everybody rises up and wants to see him.

[63:28]

And then the Buddha and Many Treasures sit next to each other, in the stupa, the two of them, and teach together. And this Buddha, many treasures, is kind of the symbolic in the Lotus Sutra, the symbol of the Buddha nature itself. So infinite compassion, just to go over this, takes her offering and offers it again to Shakyamuni Buddha, who... taught her and teaches us and is the Buddha in our time and is the source of the Dharma of our time. And also to many treasures, this Buddha nature or the teaching of how it is that we exist together in this life in emptiness.

[64:28]

groundlessness of our ground together and acknowledges this Buddha, many treasures. So this Buddha nature as our fundamental way that we are. And in the commentary, how come she didn't just receive the necklace? He wanted to give her a necklace. And the commentary in one place says Avalokiteshvara did not want to be an intermediary between our practice and the Buddha Dharma and Buddha nature, like shifted over to, well, I can relate to Avalokiteshvara, but I can't relate to the teachings of the truth of my existence as awakened nature. So this is one commentary that taking that gift and giving it back to the ground of her practice, the wisdom whose heart is compassion, the wisdom of no abiding self.

[65:53]

And sitting in that wisdom seat, which Guan Yin does, and from that seat of wisdom that doesn't see beings as separate beings, still the vow is to serve beings, guide beings, speak to beings in the language they can understand with the examples that they can relate to. in any form that they need. This is bodhisattva life. The wisdom that sees that there's no abiding self by itself is just cruelty. It's like, well, you don't really exist, so deal with it. That's a kind of sickness, actually, of caught in emptiness or it's not real wisdom.

[67:02]

Wisdom's heart is compassion. And Avalokiteshvara, you know, helps us by saying, these are my vows, unhindered compassion without delay. How can we access that? This is for us. This isn't floating somewhere. In Bodhisattva land, apart from us, this is who we can practice like over and over and over again with sincerity. Being there for one another. Listening in this main practice of regarding the cries of the world. Listening. Listening itself is healing when someone really listens to you. And, you know, we often get distracted or fall into the fiery pit of, I got to have an answer.

[68:04]

I can fix it. I know what's best. Listen to me. I did it this way. Try it this way, et cetera, et cetera, without really listening, without truly listening. If we really listen. I think we have to start with ourselves and listen to our own suffering. We start there. Without that, we're not ready to be there for others if we've skipped over our own suffering and where we need to stay close. Yeah. Yeah. So we start with ourselves, with self-compassion, and we bring up the power, the power of compassion. I think Thich Nhat Hanh has a translation of it where he says, instead of by mindfully invoking Avalokiteshvara's power, he says,

[69:17]

invoking the strength of Avalokiteshvara. So power, strength, what word works for you, but when we call upon our own compassion, get in touch with it and make our effort to come from there, we are met. we are met and others are helped as well, just by taking care of our own suffering. Otherwise, it just gets spread around on everybody else, blamed and projected. And so we start with ourselves listening.

[70:19]

I just wanted to end with Dogen. Dogen wrote several poems on the Lotus Sutra. And this one says, day and night, night and day, the way of Dharma as everyday life. In each act, our hearts resonate with the call of the Sutra. I'm going to read it again. Day and night, night and day, the way of Dharma of everyday life. In each act, our hearts resonate with the call of the Sutra. Thank you very much. We will now chant the closing verse, which should... on your screen.

[71:30]

One second. May our intention equally extend to every being and place with the true merit of Buddha's way. Beings are numberless. I vow to save them. Delusions are inexhaustible. I vow to end them. Dharma gates are boundless. I vow to enter them. Buddha's way is unsurpassable. I vow to become it.

[72:32]

I want to thank everyone for coming today. Please know that we do rely on your donations now more than ever. If you feel supported by the Dharma offerings of our temples, please consider supporting San Francisco Zen Center with a donation at this time. Any size is greatly appreciated. A link will show in the chat window now with ways to donate. We will now also take a five minute break and then return for Q&A. If you would like to, if anybody needs to sign off now and would like to say goodbye, please feel free to unmute. Thank you so much Linda from Samir from Sweden. You're welcome. Thank you for coming. Thank you. Thank you very much from Colombia. Thank you so much from Green Gulch.

[73:38]

You're welcome. Wonderful. Wonderful. Where did you find that sutra? Thank you so much from England. Thank you from England. Thank you. And thank you very much from Finland. Thank you from Bolinas. Thank you very much. Thank you from Mill Valley. Thank you from Olympia, Washington. Thank you from Dubuque, Iowa. Thank you from Portland, Maine. From Albuquerque, New Mexico. Thank you from Woods Hole. Thank you. One of the gifts for me anyway is... And thank you from the older Mexico.

[74:45]

Thank you from Cleveland, Ohio. Thank you from Berlin, Germany. Thank you from city center. Thank you from city center. Thank you from San Francisco. Thank you from Tracy. Thank you from Palo Alto. Thank you from Oakland. Thank you from Watsonville. Thank you from New York Beach. Thank you from Baton Rouge. Thank you Linda from Slovenia. Welcome around the world. Thank you from Lafayette. Thank you Linda from Berkeley. I'm going to go away for a little bit and I'll be back for Q&A.

[75:55]

I kind of want to. I like this. Jenny, I'm back.

[78:59]

I'm ready for you. Okay. If anybody would like to offer any questions or comments, please go ahead and raise your hand. If you're on a laptop or computer, under the reactions button at the bottom of your toolbar, there should be a raise hand function there. If you would also like to offer a comment or question through the chat, you may also do that. And if all fails, you can raise your hand in your video, we'll come find you. And also, I just wanted to mention, if you are someone who doesn't often ask questions to maybe make a leap forward and try at this time, and if you're someone who always asks, maybe wait for some people who haven't asked before. Just a suggestion. Start with Jacqueline.

[80:11]

Yes. Hello. Can you hear me? I can hear you. I can't see you. Oh, okay. I don't know how to fix that. Hang on. Maybe that'll work. There we go. Good morning. Thank you. That was lovely. I'm wondering what translation of the Lotus Sutra you're using because the one I have, chapter 25 is called the Universal Gateway of the Bodhisattva, Perceiver of the World of Sounds. Yes. So that's a different translation. Let's see. The Gene Reeves is Universal Gateway of the Bodhisattva Regarder of the Cries of the World is the Gene Reeves. Okay. But, you know, there's been a lot of different translations, but they all are turning the same kind of thing. Sound, listening, perceiving, seeing, regarding.

[81:22]

Yeah. And this universal, this all sidedness or universal means that infinite compassion can move anywhere. All roads lead, you know, if you take infinite compassion, it leads to everywhere. Yeah. Okay. All right. And then I have a couple more questions, if that's okay. You mentioned Suzuki Roshi had written papers about the Lotus Sutra. Are they available to read for the public? Yes, yes. All of the Suzuki Roshi lectures from the earliest are online, Zen Center's archive. I think you can go to the website and probably search for Suzuki Roshi archive. And those lectures, I think they were in 68. The one I was talking about was 1968, October.

[82:27]

68, 10, 00. I don't know what the 00 is, but anyway, you can find them. Yes, everything's available. Okay, thank you. And then my last question is regarding the teachings that you're doing presently on the Lotus Sutra. Is that available? I did not sign up for that. Is there a way I can be involved with that at this point? Oh, I, you know, this is another go to the website and see about signing up for the January intensive, the sfzc.org. Look at online offerings and it's the January intensive. We've just finished one week, five days. or one week and we have two more weeks to go. So you can see if that's possible to join at this time. Yeah. Thank you so much.

[83:28]

You're welcome. Thank you. Our next question is either from Bill Kelly or Finian. Hi, Linda. Thanks for your talk. You're welcome. So I was, yeah, I wanna thank you for your talk. There was something that kind of turned for me there about the moment of the necklace getting broken apart and handed back. And I was thinking kind of about how, and also just how like compassion is, the call for compassion is just like, everything is calling for compassion, how that's just sort of like the answer. And like for every, like whatever form it might take. Yeah. So I was just sort of thinking about that in a different way and how that was sort of relating to something else that I was thinking about for a while about helping versus trying to help or like helping versus like thinking about that around like, oh, like helping versus like, like me helping versus just helping out of that, out of that like immediate, no hesitation, compassion, instead of the like putting a,

[84:47]

like condition on helping or like putting some role there, using the idea of like self and other before the compassion starts. And yeah, that's what I was sort of thinking about that when you were talking about the necklace and how that gesture of just giving that back, just immediately like giving that back. Yeah, so I just wanted to thank you for that. Yes, thank you for your... What happened, your insights there and being able to convey them to us so beautifully. I think you're right. You know, compassion. It gets what's the word? There's a shadow there sometimes for people. They want to help, but they want people to know I was a helper, you know, and it that often. It doesn't work very well. You know, we know people who are kind of do-gooders. They want to be the one. So true compassion is you're not looking down on others like, oh, pitying them or looking up your eye to eye and just, you know, you just respond.

[85:56]

And you don't necessarily even use the word help. I don't know. I'm just responding. That's really great compassion. And as Suzuki Roshi, you know, He says Zen mind, beginner's mind. Everybody knows that phrase. But right after that, he said Zen mind is a compassionate mind and a boundless mind. So that doesn't get quoted so often, but our Zen mind, it's like you said, you just, without sense of self or where I stand, or is this going to be good for me? You just, and And because of that, sometimes you have no idea that was helpful. 20 years later, someone says, you know, when you showed up at my doorstop, my door, you know, step with that basket. I, you know, I've never forgotten that. And it's like, huh, what did I, I did something. That's the best. When you don't, you have no idea.

[86:59]

Just living your life and responding truly. Yeah. Yeah. And so I guess that's not like something that you would really necessarily try to like be doing as opposed to like just trying to be authentic, I guess would be like, or just trying to kind of get out of the way of that compassion maybe. Yeah. I think, you know, we have to develop it, you know, it can be cultivated and developed. Sometimes people think you're, Some people are compassionate. Some people aren't. They're born with it. But actually, we develop it and our practice, like it or not, we can't stop it from being developed, I would say, when we're practicing. It's unstoppable. For better or for worse, I guess. Yeah. Okay. Well, thank you so much. Thanks, Linda. Next question is from Salvador.

[88:06]

How do I do this? There you are. Hi, Salvi. Hi, Linda. How are you? I'm in Santiago, Chile. Oh, wonderful. I was not able to go to the States this time. Linda, it just touched me the part about the fiery pit. It happened that after decades that I was not there, it just happened to me over some inheritance and money problems with my brother. And one morning I woke up with this image of having a rock and throw it in the windshield of his car. And I said, oh, I have a problem. So I decided to do a three-day sashim. in my house, you know, with service and chanting and all of that like we used to do. And what it came for me is the right effort.

[89:16]

And I was wondering if the infinite compassion was seen in a sign of let's do a three-day sashim or let's study the right effort. Because when I look as an image in my eyes and I look at him, I just can't feel that love and compassion. All I can do for now is the right effort because I feel that he's doing a lot of harm to me. So I've been working with the right effort, not to let, but things that arise. If something good stays in my mind, I keep it. And it's working for me. But so far in my heart, I just can't feel that love and compassion. And I wonder how I'm going to get there. That's the question.

[90:20]

Yes. Well, thank you for sharing with us that story. I think, I imagine many people can relate to that personally. So the compassion that arose was compassion for yourself, it sounds like. For you to realize having that vision of destroying, hurting, destroying a car or maybe hurting someone from your own life of practice, it was like, uh-oh, this is not okay. And that to me is like compassion for yourself. That image almost called, was a call and you responded. And the call was, you have to really take care of this because you're being distracted with these very strong thoughts and visions of hatred.

[91:22]

And so let's stop and let's sit down for a while. And let's turn our attention towards our practice. So that's where the compassion and love is. It's there. And I think you directed it towards yourself to take good care of yourself and get back into upright, you know. And then this other part of what about my brother or when am I going to feel that for him? There may be a lot of work to do between you to sort that all out. However, your ability to take very good care of yourself and notice when you go off and come back to the effort to work on this conflict, to listen, all these practices, what do you share anything with? of the same understanding anymore.

[92:23]

Is it totally? Or are there certain things you share, certain things you don't share? You know, what is the work of coming, of mending and reconciliation? But anyway, I didn't want you to somehow think love and compassion was gone. It's there. And it was turned towards taking care of yourself. Yeah. Okay. Thank you, Linda. Thank you very much. Our next question is from Trey. Hi, Linda. Thank you. The first thing that came to mind while I was reading the chapter was the name, you know, here are the cries of the world. And the first thing that I thought was, wow, that's a long name to kind of remember. You know, what if something, you know, like... I'm about to get hit by a car or something, you know, and I can't get all those words out in time.

[93:26]

And then the next thing that flashed in my mind was the image of the New Testament. You know, the main two words that could kind of sum it up are repentance and faith. So those two kind of flashed for me. And like another word I feel about repentance is intimacy. So like intimacy and faith. That part being the intimate part being, you know, the listening part, listening to whatever comes up from within or without, without the duality of, you know, is it good or bad? And then that faith part is that feeling I get where, you know, like giving it over whatever I'm hearing, releasing it to emptiness. So that way, even if, you know, the car is coming my way and it about to hit me, There's no perception of like, well, is this going to be a good thing or a bad thing to just have faith? And, you know, you know, like I think about like all the good and bad things that happened to me.

[94:28]

And, you know, it's like if it's good or bad, like, wow, I wouldn't have been here if I that or this thing didn't happen. So I get that image of, you know, like even if a car is coming my way and about to hit me. Is this going to be a good thing or a bad thing? Well, maybe. I'm kind of just seeing what comes up and not labeling it as, oh, this is the worst thing that ever happened to me or the best thing that ever happened to me because it's like a blessing either way. So I was wondering if you would chew on those two words and see what comes up for you and add your ingredients to the soup, if you will. Well, a few things come up. One is the fact that we don't know all the time what contributes to our

[95:42]

Actually, I should put it a little differently. I was going to say, we don't know what contributes to the deepening of our practice life. We often think, you know, certain things do and other things don't. But I think we can learn from whatever circumstances happen. I don't know the New Testament. I don't know... exactly how those words are used. But however, for me, the coming back to you don't have to say the one who perceives the cries of the world or anything. I mean, that's the shortened form is kanon, you know, or for you, it could just be help, you know, or But part of that, like this example of the car, and, you know, part of compassion is appropriate response.

[96:53]

And appropriate response has to do with caring for ourselves, protecting ourselves and others. So leaping out of the way of the car, which you don't even have to think about. I think that would almost be instinctive if you have enough time. Is your whole body mind taking care of your whole body mind? So is that compassion? Is that great compassion? What is that? So along with that, if you... When sad things happen or illness or all the things I was listing, how do we practice with those? How does that deepen our patience and loving kindness and our ethical life and our generosity when we go through difficult things?

[97:57]

So those are some things that came up, Dre, for me as I'm looking at this doggie. Yeah. I think one of the obstacles that gets in the way of compassion is fixed ideas about people and things and ourselves that get in the way of feeling what of some other layer of feeling our connection and intimacy. So those are just a couple things. Okay. Are you there? Yes, thank you. I think those two words, leaping out of the way of the car and obstacles kind of gave a good taste for me, you know, like getting out of my own way and letting what happens happen.

[99:05]

Thank you. Our next question is from Wendy. Hi, Linda. Hello. I'm Wendy Persig. I can't put my last name on this, but the first thing I want to do is... Thank you for sending me a card a few months ago, which got me to sign up for the intensive. So I really want to thank you so much. I'm so glad to be part of it and to be meeting with you today. I've had my, you know, my question as you were, as I found that we were going to have a Q&A session, I started to formulate this question and I realized, you know, once you formulate a question and I knew I was in a queue to speak with you, I started to really pay attention to some of the things that you've just answered to a couple of people. And I'm seeing, oh, yes, oh, yes. But I'll tell you my question anyway, because it it my yesterday, knowing that I was going to be hearing you today talk about Chapter 25.

[100:17]

I read Chapter 25 and I read it on one of the days, one of the many days in the past year when I was just miserable thinking about the news. And, you know, I imagine this is shared by others. You know, certain days I just get waves of worry. It's almost like a physical agony. I actually feel pain physically. And yesterday morning was one of those mornings. And I was so I opened the sutra and I didn't know what chapter 25 was going to be. So I read it then. And I mean, I started to cry. I said, this is what I want. I want this bodhisattva to change those headlines to stop this disease. I want this. And then I began thinking, no, no, this is an allegory. This isn't really, you know, this isn't really going to happen.

[101:19]

Sort of what Suzuki Roshi or the young Suzuki felt about it being a superstition. But I was there. I was very much connecting with this chapter. And now I want it. So my question, which I think I could start to answer based on what I've just heard you say in the last 10 minutes. But my question was, what should have I done with myself right then other than just say, I want it. I want it. I was overcome with desire that this bodhisattva was going to fix everything. I want, so that's, when that happens, what, how, how should I work with myself to calm down? Thank you. That's my question. Well, it's so nice to see you after all these many, many, many years, 50 years, maybe. And I'm so glad you were able to connect with the, the intensive and well, somehow what you described of this,

[102:25]

I mean, I could feel it as you were saying it, the strength of wishing for there to be change, for the good and people to be okay and nothing to happen and for Black Lives Matter to be the reality of all of it, you know, and to feel it so strongly and wish for it ardently, you know, fervently, sincerely. To me, that's like the fire of our practice life. You know, it's not allegory. You know, how does that... And like Dr. King, you know, in the I Have a Dream speech, you know, he puts out this dream, you know, how a vision of what he could see someday and the quality of his voice, you know, I just... wanting it so much for the world for for the suffering world so i i trust that i trust that and then it's like what work do i need to do to make it's not going to happen without me um involved you know as if somebody else is going to take care of it

[103:47]

What is my practice? And it comes down to where is compassion in my heart? For all those beings, you know, at the beginning of the sutra where it mentions, which people have had trouble with, the yakshas and the gandharvas and the maharagas, and they list all these beings. And if you look up what those beings are, you know, there's half man, half horse kind of a thing. There's... demons, there's, and I was picturing the mob, you know, that the view of these beings, we want it for them too. We don't want to, it's not like to get rid of these beings. These beings are part of the fabric of our existence, you know. So how are we, what are we going to What is our appropriate response? And it may be many, many things, from educating ourselves to giving money to demonstrating or voting, all sorts of stuff.

[105:04]

But to hate all those beings, to wish for them to be, just like the Lotus Sutra says, Awaken to Buddha's teaching, you know, awaken to the oneness of our life. And wanting to demonstrate it and help them help beings realize it. Yeah. So. I think this fervent, ardent wish that you had, you know, or have can be the. What do they say? The fire in the belly of your practice life, you know? Yeah. Thank you. Our next question is from Pam. Good morning, Linda.

[106:07]

Thank you for your offering. It was very helpful. I'm a therapist, so as I was listening to Avalokiteshvara's job description, it sounded a lot like mine. And all of the ways of meeting that suffering that were really so skillful. But I have a question. It's got two parts. So the first part is the different ways that Avalokiteshvara can appear. You know, that it could be a kitty cat. It's however you need it, you know. And I can see, like, it makes sense. Like, it might be compassionate to go get yourself a cat or a dog. But, like, what about a man or a woman? I mean, how does that work, you know? And then the other part of my question is that sometimes...

[107:08]

It could things that can feel like they're compassionate, like when I'm suffering and it seems like the compassionate thing to do is to have a glass of wine, you know, or to eat like something really delicious, maybe a lot of it. And, you know, those things are comforting, but they don't really. And there's such a great relief, you know, in the in the short term. But. It can feel like a compassionate action, but I think it's not really a compassionate action. But sometimes it seems like it is a compassionate action. So I just wanted to ask you about those two things. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Pam. Those are really, really germane, you know, and just everybody. I just feel like it was a question for everybody, you know. Yeah. So what's the difference between compassion and just plain old compassion? self-soothing, you know, and I think there's difference and they're called for in different times.

[108:10]

So compassion is, you know, the word itself means to suffer with, to suffer with, and then part of it in the practice side is to wish for the alleviation of suffering, to want that ardently, I'm using the word ardently, to wish that for self and others. And then you know, depending on what the suffering is, the alleviation will be various things, but the deepest alleviation, you know, is waking up to our true self, right? So it does come back to realizing and awakening. However, this feeling of wishing for someone, yourself or others, to be freed from suffering, is different, I think, from... Well, I take that back.

[109:15]

I was going to say, you have to know yourself. Nobody can say, well, that was just self-soothing. That wasn't real compassion or something. Nobody can tell you that. You need to know. And I think self-compassion can take a lot of forms. But if you say, actually... You might know, like, having a third piece of chocolate cake, it doesn't work. I don't feel good after or whatever, you know. And I can't kid myself. Maybe somebody could, but yeah. So this... neurologically speaking, the neuroscience of compassion is very different from like empathy, like I feel your pain and I want to help. The compassion, the entire, they were describing it as a certain part of the brain lights up in empathy and feeling somebody wanting them to, wanting to do something for them.

[110:25]

But compassion was wishing that they would be relieved from the suffering. That wish itself, the whole brain lights up. And it's deeper than any one situation alleviating that. It goes much deeper. And it's like a fountain that never... People talk about compassion fatigue, but I think it's empathy fatigue, really. Compassion is... is an endless fountain, this wish. It's bodhisattva vow, right? So, yeah, when we fool ourselves, you know, part of us knows, I think. And working with clients, you know, when they're, however, you can't be too out in front of them. You know what's going on, but you have to stay with them. or they won't come back, you know.

[111:28]

So that compassion of speaking their language, according to their inclinations and mentalities, that means you have to let go of, you may have an insight, but it's too soon. We have to stay with this. And I suppose with ourselves, similarly. And what you said about coupledom, it sounded like with the kitty cat male, female, or partners of various types. Yeah, I think we want, many, many people do, not everybody, but many people do want a life's partner that shares a life and a spiritual life. But I think we know from our practice life and from other times we've been in relationship, that is not the answer to our suffering necessarily and could cause more if it's, what shall I say?

[112:41]

If we get ourselves into a situation that we knew kind of wasn't right, but I mean, I know somebody who, says, I just don't want to be alone. So she ends up in situations that can be harmful. But the original thing is, I just don't want to be alone. How am I going to take care of that? Well, that way may be even worse. With that part of the question, I was kind of wondering of the logistics of how it works. Because Kuan Yin can appear in any form that you need it. So how does that work? Well, I'll tell you, I have a friend who wanted to be in a relationship with somebody who shared a spiritual life.

[113:51]

And she, I'll just... I'll just tell you the story. She took up the practice of asking, kind of like chapter 25, asking Kuan Yin to help with this. It was a practice issue. And she just asked and offered incense and bowed and asked. What can I say? She ended up meeting somebody. And they're still together and they share a spiritual life. She owes it to Guan Yin, she said. But my sense was, I don't even know if we can say that, but she was in touch and listening to herself, you know, thoroughly, sincerely, lovingly. And how did that change her? I don't know. But it is transformative. And she was ready when this person, what can I say? It's one of those stories that

[114:54]

I appreciate, you know, I'm not recommending necessarily, but you can see what you want to do. Thank you. Our next question is from Jim. I'm just looking at the time and maybe I don't know how long people want to stay, but it's almost 12. So maybe like two more questions and how would that be? Linda, when our paths first crossed. Hi, Jim. Hello. The liturgy at Zen Center was beings are numberless. I vow to save them. And then at some point, we change from beings are numberless. I vow to awaken with them. And now that I've come back to seeing what's going on at Zen Center, we've now come back to beings are numberless.

[115:59]

I vow to save them. It somehow makes me happy that, but both of those are here. In Iowa, when I'm inquiring into things such as this, I'm more likely to be talking with Christian clergy. And I think if, as I begin to understand the 25th Sutra, I think they would say, oh, I think I understand you're talking about grace. I think you're talking about grace. And so now we have two images. We have the bodhisattvas emerging from the earth, but we also have the flowers, the benediction just showering down upon us. When I was little, probably about eight, I was playing with my neighborhood kids. They told me people in Africa, children in Africa were starving.

[117:02]

And the second I heard that, I just started running home. And to go to my mother and let her know so that we could do something about it. And I must confess that when I began my Zen practice, I had the faith that we could actually save the world. You know, through practice realization, we could actually turn things and actually save the world in my lifetime. And in September of 2015, I wrote Donald Trump a letter inviting him not to run for the presidency. This is an effort to save the world.

[118:06]

I even referred to Doga. I referred to Benjamin Franklin and to a great psychologist that used to live in your neighborhood, Claudio Naranjo. And I told him that it would not be good for him or his family. or the country. It was actually a loving letter, but he just wouldn't listen. Yeah, yeah. The one thing else I would say about that is, having lived in California, I'm not without psychological sophistication. It's like, I understand that this could be a projection of me wanting to save myself. But still, if I go into just my soul without psychological sophistication, I want to save the world. Yeah.

[119:08]

Still. You know, when the Buddha was awakened under the Bodhi tree, He said, or it is the teaching story is that he said, marvelous, marvelous. All beings without exception are completely and thoroughly awakened, except they don't realize it because of their delusions. And the great earth. All beings and the great earth are complete. This is our life, you know, so. You know, from that, if you want to say from absolute side, all beings are, the teaching is all beings and the great earth are saved, you know, are awake, and that is their nature.

[120:10]

But however, or there's some, you can't stop there and say, well, You know, we have to continue writing our letters and talking with people and our practice forever. And desires and delusions are inexhaustible and our practice is inexhaustible and forever. Yeah. I think one of my delusions or beliefs is that my greatest happiness is is to step away from the world and renounce and be away from all of that stuff. But I wanna thank you for your talk. It was so passionate. It was such a great invitation to almost renounce my renunciation and get rid of this dualistic separation of where it is.

[121:26]

that I should live my life. Yeah. So thank you very much for your talk. Thank you. Thank you, Jim. We actually have a couple questions from folks in the chat. Next up is Jerome. Hi, thank you. I'm Sally. Sally Holland. Hi, Sally. Hi. I loved your talk. Thank you. And the Q&A. Today was very meaningful. I'm grateful to all the participants. I've learned so much. I had a question when this came up, something that you said about the heart of wisdom. You said, is compassion. Since then, I've learned so much about compassion from the Q&A. But my question at the time was, I thought you then said, not emptiness. The heart of wisdom is compassion, not emptiness. And so I was wondering what the relationship between compassion, what is the relationship between compassion and emptiness?

[122:33]

Yeah. I don't know exactly what I said. I think what I was trying to say was the wisdom itself is the wisdom that sees emptiness, you know, the wisdom that has gone beyond. So you could say the... Prajnaparamita, the wisdom that's gone beyond, is just in the beginning of the Heart Sutra, it says, Avalokitesvara, compassion, while deeply practicing Prajnaparamita, meaning this wisdom that sees the emptiness of all beings and self, perceived that all five skandhas, our self, are are empty and was saved. So who saw that? Who had the wisdom I? Compassion did. So the two are like fused. And then teaching others, oh, but they're empty.

[123:40]

There's no being that you could say exists as a separate self. So how come you're saving them? out of compassion for the many, you know, that's the bodhisattva vow. So the wisdom that sees emptiness without this heart of compassion, I think I did say that, can just fall into coldness and cruelty and aloofness, actually. Yeah. I was thinking of also the gift, the giver, and the receiver are all empty. That sort of fuses it for me in my mind that there's still a gift. But there's something. It's kind of abstract, of course. The three wheels of the giver, receiver and gift, the emptiness of the three wheels. That doesn't mean so don't give gifts anymore because they're all empty.

[124:44]

We give them but without attachment and I gave and I'm gonna give to you. It's, we call it giving, you know, we call it a gift, but it's just our full engagement with life, you know, looks like that. Thank you. Linda, we just have two more questions. Oh, let's take two. Okay, great. There's one from the chat. Her name is Diane. Okay. up on. Shall I look at it or do you want to read it? She had a question. Something about, can you put the words of day and night, night and day? I tried to unmute her. She might have stepped away. Oh, up on the chat, that poem? I don't know.

[125:45]

You could probably type a Jenny really fast. Okay. Ready? Oh, can you read this? Let me. Or I can just say it. Yep. Okay. Day and night. Night and day. Next line. The way of Dharma as everyday life. In each act, our hearts resonate with the call of the Sutra. Thank you, Jenny. Great. Then I think our last question is from Caroline.

[126:48]

I'd still like to ask her. Caroline, I'm sorry. Hello, Linda Ruth. Hello, hello. Can you hear me? Yes. Are you healthy? Are you well? I'm well. I just got my booster and I'm sitting at home feeling flu-like and this is a perfect event for a flu. And Prudence is here listening. Oh, good. Hi, Prue. And we're so happy that we're here together. So, you know, I kind of like to figure out demons or to try to understand those who would wish harm. And sometimes late at night, I watch TV and I watch criminal minds. And I love the way the FBI guys figure out these people that would do and do harm. And they somehow understand a little bit of the depth of their minds.

[127:53]

I think that's why I do watch that show in secret late at night when no one else is watching. But I found a passage that I had a question about from the 25th chapter regarding a man on the verge of deadly harm. And it says... Even if the 3,000 great thousandfold world were full of yakshas and rakshatas, seeking to inflict people, these wicked demons, hearing them call upon the name of the Bodhisattva, regardor of the cries of the world, would not be able to see them with their wicked eyes, how much less to hurt them. If the ones that would do harm would not be able to see them, with their wicked eyes, what is it they do see? The way I've understood that verse or that section is that with the power, the strength of compassion, somehow they had an object of their cruelty, let's say, or their person they were going to

[129:11]

hurt or whatever, and somehow they were unable to see them anymore, like they were not visible anymore. So as a story or as an allegory, it's like compassion can change how we see things completely. That's not a person I'm angry at anymore. That's just a poor, you know, a poor person who's just traumatized or whatever. You don't see it anymore as someone that's dangerous to you. I mean, they could be dangerous to you still, but they're not an object of your wanting to harm them anymore. So I'm wondering also, Could this be as the last respondent was talking about the relationship between compassion and emptiness?

[130:18]

Could it also be said that they see with no eyes? Hmm. Yeah, I. I think they're talking about. The these wicked yachas and demons and stuff, right? So. And what happens is, I don't know if it's a cloud, what happens, but they can't see who they're after anymore. It's like they can't find them anymore, which in some way is you could say, yeah, that's the truth of emptiness, right? You can't really find somebody as a thing outside of dependent co-arisen moments, right? So maybe so. I've never thought of it that way, Carolina. That's like, yeah. And also those yakshas and those demons, and you're watching Criminal Mind.

[131:19]

I didn't know, I don't have a TV, so I didn't know there was that show. It's like, what are the karmic formations that create a certain neuronal pathways, a way of people seeing and thinking? And if I'm not mistaken, there's trauma, there's All sorts of things, right? In someone's... That's how karmic formations... That's the fruit of those kinds of karmic formations and actions. Yeah. So it's... Yeah. Greed, hate, delusion. And that's what I've gone back to, the teachings around these upheavals and this insurgency. It's like... There's greed, hate, and delusion. The three poisons are operating here. This is what's happening. It's not something, I don't know, some other thing.

[132:22]

That's what it is. And sometimes a lot of delusion. Yeah. So that's been very grounding for me as a practice, because I can get pushed around, you know. Thank you very much. Thank you, everyone, wherever you are across the world. And I'll see a lot of you tomorrow. Thank you, Linda from Berkeley. Thank you. Thank you, Linda. Thank you, Linda. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Thank you, Linda. Bye. Bye, everyone. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you, Linda. Thank you, Linda. Bye, everyone. Thank you. Thank you, Linda. You're welcome, everyone. Thank you from Zoom.

[133:36]

the leave now. So goodbye. Bye.

[133:40]

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