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Immersion in Interbeing

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SF-09039

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11/18/2015, Ryushin Paul Haller dharma talk at Tassajara.

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The discussion centers on the interplay of practice and realization in Zen, highlighting how they are inseparable rather than two distinct stages. It explores how returning to basic practices, like breathing and mindful observation, enables a process of "being undone," where one acknowledges, experiences, and lets go of mental constructs. The talk draws heavily on teachings from traditional Zen texts, particularly those by Dogen Zenji and the koan by Nangaku, emphasizing the necessity of investigation and the avoidance of dualism in practice.

  • Nagarjuna: Referenced in the context of beginning a conversation or teaching with a foundational concept, highlighting the foundational role of Nagarjuna’s teachings in Buddhist philosophy.
  • Koan by Nangaku: Emphasized as a pivotal teaching illustrating the inseparability of practice and realization, suggesting that both emerge simultaneously and cannot be divided.
  • Dogen Zenji's Fascicles: Discussed to underline Dogen's intrigue with integrating mind and practice, demonstrating the iterative nature of practice and the embodiment of Zen concepts.
  • Three Classifications of Consciousness (Citta, Hridaya, Vritta): Described as various states of mind significant in Buddhist practice, showcasing how mind can align with practice and contribute to self-realization.
  • Poems by Billy Collins: Used to illustrate the acceptance of everyday human experiences, emphasizing a more relaxed and compassionate view of personal thoughts and emotions.
  • Concept of Achantika: Discussed as the obstinance in wanting things one's way and how it hinders realization, offering a caution against rigid attachment in practice.
  • Sila (Ethical Conduct): Highlighted as both a protective and nurturing aspect of practice, underscoring the structural support provided by ethical frameworks in Zen practice.

AI Suggested Title: Beyond Dualism: Embodying Zen Practice

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Transcript: 

This podcast is offered by the San Francisco Zen Center on the web at www.sfzc.org. Our public programs are made possible by donations from people like you. moments ago I was roaming around my cabin looking for my watch and my mind was thinking should I start with the quote from Nagarjuna should I start with that koan from Nangaku or Billy Cowan's poem and uh and interestingly

[01:06]

despite that flurry of mental activity and the fact that I was aware I was ruining past time I'm getting here. There was a good measure of reckless and shameless state of mind. It just is how it is. Not that I'm And I too, you know, dilly-dally. Just, I can't find my watch. And in the meantime, my mind is spinning. Well, maybe not spinning, but certainly tossing up notions, ideas. Young men say, I don't ask about before, I don't ask about after, I'm asking about now.

[02:12]

And then answering his own question. Every day's a good day. An interesting thing happens to us as the practice works is over. doesn't magically make all the issues of our life you know whether it's a better strategy to start with Billy Collins or Nan Gaku you know doesn't solve such grievous matters but somehow that strange mysterious process of returning to body brat you know that life we're living. It's like young men saying, every day is a good day, not because you know for sure it's going to work out the way that will make you happy, but every day is a good day because...

[03:34]

in the throes of practicing with it. There's a process that's working, like digestion, respiration works in our body. And you can read Dogen Zenji's fascicles to see that this is what intrigued him, especially in the period in his life when he started to set up monastic practice. It seems to be a question, something like, what is it to practice? And of course he has in his mind, given his in-depth education of Buddhist studies, many images, many references to Buddhist teachings and koans and Chinese and Japanese literature. But still, this question gnaws away at him.

[04:43]

What is the practice? And then there's certain things he returns to. And this coin of Nangaku's is one of them. There's various translations, but they all seem to say something like this. Nangaku says, It's not that there isn't practice. It's just that it can't be divided into practice and then something else called realization. The two are interwoven. The two arise together. And then in other places, if you remember the last class I taught, I was talking about these three classifications of consciousness, citta, hidayah, and vritta.

[05:57]

Citta, that discerning, discriminating mind that usually has a lot to say for itself. It makes pronouncements about what's happening. this is good, this is bad, draws conclusions. Well then, if that's the case, this is such and such. And how in a way Dogen is intrigued by that proposition. Saying, yes, Mind does do all that, but mind can also be an agent in aligning with the practice. And as an agent that aligns with the practice, initially conjuring up, maybe in our own way, some vow, some deep intention

[07:13]

I remember Norman Fisher wrote a poem while he was in the midst of Shashin. We could question that, but we won't go there. We'll leave that to him. But he said in the poem, I will never ever again do such and such. You know, it had its own kind of naked foolishness. My mind says, for sure, I'll never ever again do that. And of course, that rolls out of his karmic, patterned, habitual existence. But the sincerity, you know, that way in which citta and its creation can something about a commitment to practice to drop down, to drop down into a heartfelt condition.

[08:31]

It's like Nangaku was saying, I'm not saying that's that fervor, that heartfelt vow I'm not saying that's not practice. I'm just saying if it becomes too solid, if it becomes too pointed in pointing at right and wrong, success and failure, it turns practice and realization into two things. That's the setup that I'm going to leap into. You know, part of the reason Nangaku's Cohen came to mind is we are more or less in the middle.

[09:51]

whether we get it or not, we are being undone. You know, the image, one of the images in Zen. It's like the peach blossom being blown apart by the spring wind, petal by petal. We're being undone by the wind of practice. We're being undone by the endless times we see what's happening in the mind, the stories it's creating, the judgments, the emotions that, you know, circle around those stories. And we've seen them we've dropped them we've got stuck in them we've seen through them they've opened up into moments of quiet shimmering presence and then they've clouded over the vast empty sky again

[11:24]

in their accumulated being, they have enabled the process of being undone by what it is to be human. And often when I read Dovian's fascicles, he's constantly returning to that. Hmm, what's that again? And he quotes this koan by Nangaku. It's the start of different fascicles. It's not that there's no practice. It's not that intention and directed attention are irrelevant. It's just... important that they don't set up a dualism and even it allows us to see that in our diligent effort if we did nothing but accomplish what it was we thought we were here to accomplish in a way it would be misleading

[12:57]

The very process of being distracted, noticing, acknowledging, experiencing, returning. The whole process is the rediscovery, the reenactment, the remembering, the re-embodying of uprightness. and that this attitude, that now as we are in the middle, to be like Doga and Zenji, intrigued, fascinated, curious. How do you practice? How do you be Zazen?

[14:02]

How do you be the host of this citta, this mind that seems to unendingly bring forth its imaginings, its concerns, its aversions, its desires? And now in the middle, as we have our diligent efforts and despite ourselves establish some of this um what you might call fundamental okayness i remember trying to make a phone call once and it was a very clever phone tree you know how these phone trees well if you this press one and then you get another six options and then you press one of them and then you get another six options

[15:08]

Maybe at that time, you know, frustrated. When am I ever going to speak to a person? And this phone tree said, each time you pressed an option, it said, okay. It's like, keep going. I'm doing well. Okay. Okay, you want a larger complaint. Do you want to complain about deliveries, cost, or bad service? Okay, bad service. The waiting time is 35 minutes. That fundamental okayness. The way is vast and wide.

[16:11]

It's not trying to sterilize us into some limited being that doesn't feel and doesn't think. The liberation of the Zen is the willingness of yes and the willingness to experience and be what is. The liberation outside of Zen is a willingness to be what is. And to be a little dramatic, this is like nonsense, Cliff. So much of the human condition is, well, not really. I'm not really willing. Maybe later.

[17:14]

Or if you change it, I might be willing. But this request, yes. To settle the self on self. can experience the mind, the heart, the body, the breath that's arising in this moment. And then to attend. How does that translate into the particulars of the sensations in the body right now how does that translate into opening and experience the breath of now and how do they the the body and breath how do they have a revealing wisdom that can instruct

[18:37]

mind that can instruct chitta to open in yes and this is one of the chords of the zen this is indicative of the heritage of the zen way the body the breath Hold the mind. So this is Sashin, the body, the breath, hold the mind. At last Sashin, we explored the initiation, the letting the breath breathe the body. Of course, that's a difficult thing to do.

[19:39]

Of course, when the mind is caught up in thoughts, that's remote, elusive, ephemeral. But it also reveals, it reveals the content of mind, the disposition of mind. So in one of his fascicles, Dugan Zenji, I think it's the literalism, mind, body, learning, or learning the truth. The Buddha way cannot be realized without practice.

[20:43]

And without investigation, It remains remote. That's what I've been trying to talk about so far. Investigation. We intend yes and we study no. We intend now and we study before and after. We intend okay and we study not okay. Not enough, too much. And then we hold not okay with okay. Okay, things are going according to plan. The mind is exhibiting its way of being.

[21:44]

And as we settle, we can watch that ripple through the body and the breath. We can watch the content stimulate a state of mind. We can watch the mind and the state of mind stimulate emotions. We can watch them stimulate moods. We can watch them arise. We can watch them fall away. This is investigate. And Ngaku is saying, yes, that wholehearted, sincere commitment initiates. But it's not about success and failure. Directed attention initiates receptive attention.

[22:53]

And receptive attention doesn't know what's supposed to happen. The Buddha way cannot be attained without practice. And without investigation, it remains remote. Zen Master Nangaku said, it's not that there's no practice and no realization, it's just they can't be divided into two. Not to study the Buddha way is to fall into the realm of the shameless and erroneous ways. This is a translation of the term achantika. And achantika is someone who's so resolutely and determinedly caught up in what they want and what they don't want that they're never going to realize anything.

[24:10]

And that's still being. Years ago, I worked in the fields of green culture. This is Nick Charles, and he introduced me to this term. Whenever I do something that frustrated him, he'd call me unidentical. And then, of course, we both laugh. It was kind of a sophisticated way to, you know, rebuke somebody. And always good for a laugh. Provisionally, There are two approaches to studying the Buddha way, to study with mind and to study the body. To study with mind means to study with the various aspects of mat, citta, pradaya, nidvrita.

[25:16]

And to remember that this not knowing investigation this willingness to be what arises we study it we study the nature of yes we study the demeanor of it we study the nothing to attain of it we study not knowing what's supposed to happen and what knowing what's not supposed to happen. And as we study through engaging those attributes and the other more subtle attributes that arise in our own being, Letting a breath breathe the body, as we continue with it, elusive as it may be, it will start to reveal the contractions of the body, of the breath.

[26:31]

Even contractions almost like on the brain. You can feel mind contract around a certain thought. And without dismissing it or suppressing it, just let go of the something extra. It's just the thought of the moment. As Billy Collins so wonderfully does. I had to segue in some. This one's called No Time. I originally was going to read the one before it, which was the only day in existence, which seemed utterly appropriate, but this one captures something of letting each thing be what it is.

[27:37]

In the rush of this weekday morning, I tap the horn as I speed past the cemetery where my parents are buried. Side by side, under a smooth slab of granite. Then, all day long, I think of him rising up to give me a look, to give me that look of knowing disapproval. And my mother calmly tells him to lie back down. magic of spacious acceptance. Of course, our mind could say foolish imaginations, projections, whatever.

[28:42]

But not so much to dissect the content of mind as to study the hridaya of that state of consciousness, that heart of the being of that moment. And this is its own yogic exploration, discovery, realization. What is the disposition that can do that? that can hold the arising and in many ways this represents the Mahayana perspective on Shranyata it's this notion of dynamic energetic interbeing that's

[29:53]

what we're part of. And we take how it's apprehended through this consciousness and we call it me. And foolish as that may be at times, it's not a great crime that we're committing. It's not some great perversity. It's simply our own poetic metaphor for being alive. And can we relate the citta in that way? Can we relate to the content?

[30:53]

Not so much to jump into it and argue the values of its perspectives, but more to feel it. To feel the weight of it, the insistence, or the whimsy of it. Sometimes something floats into our mind and it's truly a marvel. Where did that come from? How in the middle of Tassajara, in the middle of a practice period, I remember hearing once on the radio, someone had a near-death experience. And he said, in the very moment that I thought I was going to die, my mind said, ah, caramba!

[31:55]

He says, I'm a wasp. I grew up in the Midwest, you know. How could my dang side be a caramba? You know, the mind's amazing, you know. What it will spill forth, you know. And we explore the subtlety, the subtle permission of that kind of okayness. But how Bowie Collins makes us laugh and at the same time leaves the door open for the tender emotions.

[32:59]

of our loss, of our memories for those who are cherished. That as we engage in this way, it settles into hridaya. This okayness not only releases in the body, releases in the breath, releases in the mind. It releases in the heart. And that part of the process, this releasing, as I say, it's like the digestive process. It's like the respiratory process. It's not subject. to the workings of the mind. In fact, the mind can start to get in the way.

[34:04]

Figuring it out, concluding, having higher and lower success and failure starts to become a distraction. It distracts us from, as Dogen says, a wondrous method of settling. Wondrous because it's not contained within our conceptual thoughts. something beyond. And here's how Dogen starts to talk about that mind. After resonating with the way and arising the thought of awakening.

[35:18]

Take refuge in the great way of the Buddha ancestors and devote yourself to the practice of way-seeking mind. Even if you've not yet aroused way-seeking mind, follow the example of those who did arise way-seeking mind. I would say, poke around in there. Wayseeking mind brought you here. It's foolish to think you haven't aroused it. Countless times you've returned to wayseeking mind in the midst of that which was alluring and that which was painful.

[36:31]

Don't discard last souls. This very mind is Buddha. Of course, as we entered into Shashin, the very process of entering into Shashin stirs up the clamor of our karmic life. So be it. The great gift of our practice is it holds everything. Your mind is filled with images and thoughts and so be it.

[37:41]

Let the breath breathe the body. And let that be experienced as thoroughly as possible. And maybe now you'll have a new word in your repertoire. You'll be able to say, akaramba. Okay. something softens and the breath, the inhale seems to sink more thoroughly into the torso. Or maybe you'll exclaim it as something doesn't soften and the breath doesn't seem to sink more thoroughly. Not to stand apart from ourselves, creating some self-involved narrative, but at the same time, to not discard the diligence of our own effort.

[39:02]

We could say that the process of our practice is to discover to be somewhat slower and somewhat more deliberate. We're not rushing to get somewhere or striving to get somewhere. We're slowing down to be here. This very mind is Buddha. And especially as we're settling into Sushin, we're tuning in. Because in his translation, use the words resonating. We're resonating with the request of practice. We're resonating with the realization of practice.

[40:12]

something in us knows the efficacy, the appropriateness of entering the way. To let that find its expression with each breath. Now can the breath become inhale, pause, exhale, pause, Is that kind of deliberate involvement accumulated? This wonderful obscure piece Dogen has here, which I'll skip ahead to. Those who have rolled up this matter into the wide open eyeballs are two or three bushels.

[41:27]

Those who have rolled up into this manner, wide open eyeballs are two or three bushels. Something's accumulated through the constant giving over. That's the two or three bushels. He doesn't say two or three bushels of what, right? Just something. As we settle in, as we initiate, to let what our body and our breath and our mind and our heart have learned up to now, in the practice period to be open to listening to that and being instructed by it not to say some conceptual thinking around that isn't inspirational or helpful but the felt experience of it

[42:50]

The experience of upright body. The experience of deliberately attending to the process of breathing. The experience of letting the mind soften. The experience of letting what's being seen be seen. What's being heard, be heard. This process that goes beyond our thinking, we write beyond the conditions. The word sila in Buddhism, Siva in Pali, Siva in Sanskrit.

[44:00]

Siva is like the shield, that which protects, but also that which, in a way, nurtures. So the admonitions of Sashin, the rigor of the schedule, they will contain us. And then this inner work, this inner sigla, this inner alignment, this subtle, careful investigation. We watch the mind move into content, And we rediscover with okayness, acceptance, willingness to experience the interbeing of the moment.

[45:10]

The dynamic, energetic interplay of attention, of emotion, of conceptualization, of release. of attention, directed and receptive. And the moment offers up its own teaching, practice and realization intertwined. So here's Billy Collins' other poem. The only day in existence. The morning sun is so pale I could be looking at a ghost in the shape of a window.

[46:14]

A tall rectangular spirit peering down at me now in my bed about to demand that I avenge the murder of my father. That part is a joke. But this is what... He's only the first line in a five-act play of this day, the only day in existence, or the opening card of its long song, or think of what is permeating these thin bedroom curtains as the beginning of a lecture I must listen to until dark. A curious student in a V-neck sweater, angled into the wooden chair of his life, ready with notebook and a chewed up pencil, quiet as a goldfish in winter, serious as a compass at sea, eager to absorb whatever lessons this damp, overcast Tuesday has to teach me.

[47:17]

Here, in a spacious classroom of the world, with its long walls of glass, its heavy, low-hung ceiling, how to be a good student and study the self. This marvelous, mysterious creation that we are continually busy reconstructing, embellishing, reinforcing How amazing that that's how consciousness has evolved in our human existence.

[48:25]

How amazing that every day the story of me seems to be the most important one. Why is it? Thank you for listening to this podcast offered by the San Francisco Zen Center. Our Dharma talks are offered free of charge, and this is made possible by the donations we receive. Your financial support helps us to continue to offer the Dharma. For more information, visit sfcc.org and click giving.

[49:01]

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