This podcast is offered by the San Francisco Zen Center on the web at sfzc.org. Our public programs are made possible by donations from people like you. Welcome to San Francisco Zen Center, Green Gulch Farm, Green Dragon, Zen Temple. I had to... I smiled as I was opening up my cloth and saw that I brought with me a copy of a book that I wrote last year called Less, Accomplishing More by Doing Less. But I was surprised to see that I brought a particular version of it that was printed in Sweden. Last year, I was asked to give a talk at a software conference in Sweden, where the theme was doing more with less.

[01:01]

So naturally, they invited me. And I was surprised to see that this was the copy that I have with me. I think it is in English, though. Earlier this week, I had a conversation with my daughter, who's 22 years old, and who's actually spent some time living at the city center. And this was a conversation in which she was on the verge of tears and kind of melting down, trying to figure out what to do with her life and feeling frustrated. And at one point, she said to me, Dad, what's it all about? Why are we here? And of course, I could have answered her question. In many ways, I could have said, we're here to help others. We're here to make the world a better place, or we're here to find our true nature.

[02:08]

But I didn't say any of these things. Instead, I decided to take my own advice and just listen and just be with her and feel her pain and express that I was feeling... her own struggle and that it wasn't so different than my own struggle. And then a few moments later, I got a phone call from my good friend and a teacher of mine, Michael Wenger, who's a teacher at the city center. And I was saying to Michael, I was telling him about this conversation because he's also pretty close with my daughter. And I said, Michael, how would you have answered this question, this question why are we here? And without hesitating, Michael said, are we here? And I think that's actually a fantastic question.

[03:12]

And I think, yes, we are here. And I think also we are not here. in the way that we often assume or often think that we're here. Earlier in the week, I was listening to a Terry Gross interview at NPR in which she was talking with, I think this fellow was a scientist, someone who studies focus and distraction and awareness. And he was... he was describing how dangerous it is to talk on a cell phone while while you're driving even if both hands are free and he said it's not not a problem at all as long as everything is going as expected that our bodies can have another conversation and we can be in autopilot and and without a problem however if something unexpected happens if

[04:19]

a car or a person or something comes out in front of us, our having that conversation actually inhibits our ability to be aware. And there's a part of a second that we lose and that there have been many, many recorded very serious accidents and fatalities caused by people being on the cell phone while driving. And then Terry says to him, well, what about having a conversation with the person next to you while you're driving? Is that also dangerous? It would seem so. And he said, actually, it's safer to be having a conversation with the person next to you than it is to be driving alone. And the reason for this is that there's another body there. there's another set of eyes that even if they're not really engaged, even if they don't think they're paying attention, usually, in most cases, unless this person is asleep, usually they are paying attention and that they're scanning the roadway, scanning the environment for something unexpected to happen.

[05:36]

And the driver in some way meshes. Their energy is kind of meshed and they're in tune almost always with the person next to them. And they can be, you can then be alerted to something dangerous, something unexpected happening. And there's even, it's interesting, even like he noticed that studies that if you're driving at night and it's dark, the conversation that you're having changes, it slows down, or that you talk more softly, that there's a way that we humans tend to just naturally mesh with each other. And As I was hearing this, I thought, I had this big aha, and I thought, this is why we need each other. This is why we practice together. In part, other people around us can help us to see dangers and difficulties that we alone might not see. This is important. But I think even more important, I think other people can help us see openings, possibilities,

[06:45]

things that we ourselves are not aware of. It's being with other people and being aware of those relationships, whether it's with our friends or families or therapists or coaches or doctors, that I think this is in part why these relationships are so valuable. And shortly after hearing, after having this conversation, with my daughter. And hearing this story, I found myself sitting in the office of a business executive. I mean, this is my day job, is working with business leaders. And I was sitting in this woman's office who is a very senior person at a large corporation who manages, she has a a team of about eight or 10 people who report directly to her.

[07:49]

And then there's another 250 or 300 people. And the company that she manages, helps manage, they literally touch the lives of millions of people. And she has this enormous job. And as I was sitting there, I could feel how much she was feeling discouraged, in the weeds. The details, the conversations, the personalities were all, she was finding annoying and difficult, and she wasn't enjoying herself. And I looked at her, and I got, something came up for me, and I looked at her and I said, you seem to not get just how remarkable you are. You're a remarkable human being. And you have a remarkable job. And at first, I could see she was a little embarrassed, like she kind of shrank back.

[08:54]

And then she got it. She kind of opened. I could see, just with my seeing her, how remarkable a human being she is and how remarkable Her job is she began to open and her heart began to open. And I also found that I began to open. And this is what I love about this kind of work of being able to see others really very much helped me see ourselves. And... What I want to talk about for just a few minutes here this morning is how we are all remarkable, how remarkable it is that we are alive, that we're here, how easy it is to forget this, and that we're not remarkable in the ordinary way. We're remarkable in the way of the are we here way, the way that is outside of anything that we can compare.

[10:03]

anything that's beyond our our usual ideas of success and failure or right and wrong but just just how remarkable it is that we're that we're here you know I think of I think of when I witnessed the birth of my children and just incredible being there and seeing these beings appear who, a moment ago, weren't there. And suddenly, there's these beings. And I could feel how much there was a part of them that was still in some other world. There was some other world that I could feel they still had some part of them in. And yet, here they were. We are also like this.

[11:03]

We also, even as adults, we still have a part of us is in some other world and how easily we forget this. Most of us get, you know, we get too busy or too involved in our day-to-day difficulties. And there are lots of day-to-day difficulties. And there's lots of huge problems to solve in the world, from our individual problems, our taking care of each other, and taking care of our children and parents, and political problems, and climate change problems. And yet, I think that the only way these problems can be solved is when we can do it from the spirit of feeling how remarkable we all are as human beings.

[12:06]

And it's also interesting, I think, how much the world is changing. In some way, most of us, I think when we were in school, a lot of us, we had almost this factory-like education. And schools are designed to be, in a way, kind of factories, for the most part. There are some wonderful exceptions to this. But there's a way in which we were kind of trained in a kind of fear-based religion of school to give answers and to be right and wrong and in some way trained to fit in to a certain job or certain role or certain company. And all of this seems to be dramatically changing right now. I think it's part of the pain and part of the opportunity that we experience how more and more the old models, the old models of fitting in and being a cog in a company or cog in a wheel or working from a sense of fear, these are not working.

[13:20]

That there is more and more need for us to be for all of us to be more like artists, more like someone who can see just how unbelievable, remarkable we all are in our own lives, in our own being. I remember reading that in certain cultures, I think in Bhutan and in some other cultures, just being born as a human being, this is considered the greatest success possible. That just being born into the body of a human being, that there's nothing else needed. And I think what holds this sense of what I'm... trying to describe as that we're here and are we here and that we are remarkable is these two particular teachings and philosophies from Zen practice that I think are really the two of the great, in a way, they're the great gifts of Zen, but they're so obvious that it's almost

[14:48]

It's almost embarrassing how obvious these ideas are. One is the idea of impermanence, the idea that everything changes, the reality that we are born and that we will die, that old age, sickness, and death are part of our lives. And impermanence can help us. to be present, to be alive, to feel our feelings fully, to help us taste our food completely, to look in the eyes of the people around us, and to fully meet the people around us. It helps us to see that just being human is enough. And at the same time, we have a tremendous responsibility as human beings, tremendous responsibility to really meet ourselves fully and to meet others fully.

[16:03]

Again, from this place of how remarkable we are and with this question, in what way are we here? In what way can we be fully present? And the other point, the other teaching of Zen practice is that there is no independent self, that this idea that we have of me and I is an important and useful construct. And of course, we live in the world of me and I, and we need to be responsible. for ourselves and for what we do. And at the same time, we need to see that it doesn't really exist in the way that we think, that this construct of me and I, some stable, independent sense of self, doesn't exist.

[17:14]

It's completely not true. And this, again, goes back to this. This is why Michael answered this question by asking another question. Are we here? Because when we put these two pieces together, these pieces of impermanence and that everything changes, together with this sense of that there is no abiding self that we can identify, then the question, are we here, has a whole different meaning and sense to it. And I think it also gives us a certain kind of freedom and ability to meet ourselves and to meet others completely outside of the ways that we so often get stuck, outside of our own fears and pettiness and protection and competition, which are

[18:20]

for most of us, so much a part of our experience, and a real part of experience, even somehow to be able to appreciate and meet those difficulties, not try to push them aside or pretend that they don't exist, but to see that we are remarkable right in the midst of all of our tendencies and difficulties and fears. I think I want to try something. I want to... I know that you think you came here to hear me talk, but I think actually you should talk. So I want to... In a moment, I'm not going to do this yet, but I am. Quickly, close the doors.

[19:22]

Don't let anyone leave. But I want to have you all have a very short conversation with the person next to you. And so let's do that first. So let's do that first. But without talking yet, can we all silently Without talking, just find a person that you can turn towards. Okay? If you need someone and want someone, you could raise your hand and someone will find you. If you need someone, don't be shy. Raise your hand and someone will find you. If there's a group of three, that's okay too. So for just a few minutes, I would like each person to try on talking about your remarkable self.

[20:31]

And the way you can do this is just describe something that you've done or created, or a relationship, or seen, or witnessed, or something in yourself that you actually know is quite remarkable. And I want you to see if you can speak outside of your usual comparative self. But just try it on. Just see what it's like to describe something about yourself that you find pretty darn remarkable. actually. And if there's nothing, you could imagine. Imagine what you might, what you aspire, something about yourself that you aspire to. We're all so humble. But I think... So there's two things here I'm encouraging.

[21:36]

One is just try speaking without... worrying about it, how you sound. You don't need to impress the other person here. Just try speaking from your own voice that you get how remarkable you are. And it might be just being alive. That's okay. But you could acknowledge that. And also, I want to encourage you to listen to the person who's speaking and just be with them. Don't ask them questions. Don't Don't get it. Don't engage. Don't say, really? Or you think that. But no matter what the person says, just receive it without asking questions or saying anything. Just receive it. And so one person can speak literally for like a minute or two and then stop talking. And then the other person can speak for a minute or two.

[22:38]

I'm not going to time. I know this is risky, but I'm not going to time each person. So I'll give like a one-minute warning. But this is going to be like a total of like three or four minutes total here. And I want to encourage people to get close to each other and keep your voices down so we don't erupt into great sound. which will happen anyhow, but try to be aware of keeping your voices low. So please, go right ahead. Good morning. Good morning. I do find it remarkable just to be alive sometimes.

[23:46]

And I saw, I was at the city center yesterday, and this woman came up to me and said, are you Mark Lesser? And I said, yes, who are you? And she said, I'm Laniel Jones. And I saw her. She was the first person that I met when I walked into Zen Center in 1974. She opened the door, I could picture her, short hair, kind of beautiful young. Do you remember Lanile Jones? Yeah, and I, in that moment, I felt like this is, I could feel like my past and present and theme. I didn't recognize her at all. I mean, I could see in her eyes, oh, yes, Lanile, and I'm sure she could see it in my eyes. Oh, Mark, but I thought, oh, this impermanence stuff is, Powerful. And you?

[24:48]

Just came back from a vacation in Minnesota, a bicycle vacation. Steve and I bicycled for hundreds of miles along Lake Superior and found myself so young. I burst into singing Glasgow songs as we passed birch trees along the way and So one more minute. One more minute. Make sure both people speak, please. Yes, I tell her. I was... I was careful, I think, not to say anything that she would at all be as fast.

[26:09]

Of course, there are many things from the conversation, but I felt like... I think she would feel completely about the meltdown. I wonder, because I realized I said things about it. And then afterwards, it's not just this group now anymore. It's a concern. And I'm actually writing about, I'm going to get, obviously, in writing, I feel, although it's probably true that I should get her permission in advance would be maybe a good practice, just to have that conversation. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I'm playing with writing about relationships. Very different for me. So if we can all finish up. If we can finish and thank our partners. Please thank your partner and come on back.

[27:12]

It seemed like people had something to say. Yeah, Linda reminded me that I forgot to let you know that everything said here is confidential. Especially when I talk about my daughter, it's like, so I... I think she's used to it by now, as is my son. Yeah, I was thinking how we all develop these strategies for survival, and it's part of It's part of what keeps us alive. So these ideas and practices that I'm talking about, in a way, they seem to go... I think in our minds, they seem to go against these survival strategies.

[28:41]

We have survival strategies around status. In fact, there's really... There's really interesting studies being done in neuroscience right now. So for instance, things like status, autonomy, and relatedness, that when we're threatened, when our status is threatened, or when our autonomy is threatened, or when our relatedness is threatened, it triggers the same response in our brain as though there's a physical threat to our being. In fact, I remember reading this really interesting paper by a neuroscientist saying that Abraham Maslow, his theory of the hierarchy of needs, that he was wrong. Because he had down on the bottom, Abraham Maslow said that on the bottom of this pyramid of needs was things like safety and food and water and physical well-being.

[29:47]

And then above, in the upper stratospheres, were things like relatedness and relationship. And that new scientific evidence has shown that actually relatedness and things, again, these things like our status, our relatedness, our autonomy, that these should be down there with food and water and safety, that we can't survive without these. So it's interesting to be able to look more deeply. And I think this is why practicing zazen, why practicing mindfulness, why practicing with letting go are so important to be able to live in a way where we can find real peace and freedom and be able to live the kinds of lives that we want to.

[31:00]

Some of the language that I find myself using in talking about these particular kind of survival needs is that there's a way in which it seems like our hearts become crusted There's a way that because we want our fear and survival, there's a way that we build up very easily ways that we protect ourselves and our hearts seem to so easily get crusted. And it's, I think, a combination of having a sitting practice, having a time, a regular way in which we can live outside of the world of comparison and outside of the world of right and wrong and practice with letting go, the practice of letting go, the practice of just fully meeting ourselves, meeting ourselves in each moment, having some way to do that, having some way to see, to see more clearly the crust of

[32:17]

and to have some way to melt it. And we can do this, this can be something that we do in all our relationships and all parts of our lives. Yeah, so I think we, I think it's important that we sit and there's a way that when we sit we're sitting alone and there's some way that we're never sitting alone we're always we're always in the car with another person pretty much you know no matter what and that are and that there's a way that we can help keep others safe, see things, see dangers, and there's ways that we can help see openings and ways that we can be open to seeing openings from others if we can uncrust our heart enough.

[33:29]

want to finish just by reading a few sentences from this is a book that I wrote last year called Less, Accomplishing More by Doing Less and in a way it's about this problem of busyness and which I found was something that I was encountering very much in my own life as well in the lives of people around me, the sense of how easily lost we get. And in fact, I talk in here about how busyness has become like a badge of honor, as though the busier we are, the more important we are. But I think that this busyness can become just another way of avoiding and crusting over our hearts. And that, of course, we should all be engaged in meeting ourselves and in meeting others and i hope in helping to solve the the real problems of of our world the practices here are ways to increase your awareness and support your ability to make choices choices that allow you to move into your authenticity and real power

[35:12]

so that you can accomplish today that which you most hope to achieve in the larger context of your life in this regard work and career title and promotions matter a lot because they offer goalposts and a sense of movement and progress but ultimately success in our work world and in our life does not rest with external rewards or achievements. What matters most is how much love and goodness our existence has added to the planet, how effectively we have engaged with the people we cherish most, and how much we have been able to locate our own sense of deep composure right in the midst of the messiness of our lives. Thank you very much. Please help us to continue to realize and actualize the practice of giving by offering your financial support.

[36:30]

For more information, visit sfzc.org and click Giving. May we fully enjoy the Dharma.

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