Good evening. Well, happy Mother's Day to all of us. We've all had moms or are moms and lots of moms. So I hope you had a good day and feel celebrated. Whatever relationship you are or have been to mother. So that's how we got here. We know that. So if nothing else, we're deeply grateful for our life. And yeah. my mom, my mom's name is Gladys, and she's quite a character. So I think of her today, we were telling mom stories, that was quite a nice thing to do. So let's sit for a few minutes, and then I'll start talking a little bit more about Shito, who is the author of Harmony of Difference and Sameness. So welcome back.

[07:49]

Oh, the bell. Sorry. So I've really been enjoying taking a fresh look at Suzuki Roshi's teaching about this poem, the sandokai. And for those of you who have the book, The Branching Streams Flow in the Darkness, it's 12 lectures that Suzuki Roshi gave about a year and a half before he died down at Tassahara about this poem, the sandokai. Currently, it's translated in English as the harmony of difference. And I said sameness, but they've changed it over the last couple of decades. the harmony of difference and equality so that's the current translation um and this has been a very important poem for all of us and i think a lot of it because suzuki roshi uh this was his favorite this is what we all heard this was his favorite so i thought i'd spend a little more time looking at the sandokai and hoping that if you want to

[09:02]

check it out yourself, you know, his teaching, the way he talked about it, this really, this book, Branching Streams, Flow in the Darkness is a wonderful addition to Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind. So it's also a set of his lectures, a little more technical because he's talking about some philosophical issues, doctrinal issues that are not there in Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind in the same way. But he's so good at explaining things in language that we can follow. So anyway, I really been appreciating rereading um branching streams so master shito who's you know he's in our book transmission of light that we've been looking at kind of working through some of the zen ancestors we're now in china we've gotten past the sixth ancestor who was one of the the big names and now we're going down a little bit down the lineage chart uh toward the founders of our particular branch so we're kind of getting out if you think of Buddhism is a tree, and there's the Buddha sitting under the tree a couple thousand years ago.

[10:05]

And then from whatever the inspired insight that came from his sitting there and really looking at life and watching his mind and finally going like, oh, I see the problem. He saw the problem that he was creating for himself by how he was thinking about the world and himself and how he'd kind of sealed himself off into this sort of self- self-centered, self-loving, in his case, fearing the end of his life. He was afraid of dying. So he kind of created a separation, a really strong separation between himself. And part of why he was sitting there was to try to break out of that and basically escape from the old age sickness and death. I mean, there was some belief in those days in India that you could actually transcend and you could end up going to something like what we think of as heaven or some transcendent state, no more suffering, no more body with pain and all of that.

[11:07]

So it's a nice idea. But anyway, he had a different outcome than that, which gratefully for us has been extremely beneficial for many, many centuries to the students who've come to understand what he saw how he understood it and the real sweetness at the core of it which is right back to earth you know right back on the ground so we're very buddhists are grounded we know we're involved in being human beings and how to get along and how to manage our our our pain how to work with our relationships with one another so it's very much in the human world um kind of the best we can do with it right the circumstances So Shito, he's best known by us as Zen students because we chant his name along with all the other ancestors, starting with Shakyamuni Buddha. And we have this morning service, we chant their names in Sino-Japanese, which is how Suzuki Roshi introduced us to this part of the tradition.

[12:11]

So on that list of ancestors, his name is Sekito Gisen, Japanese form of Shito, Sekito Gisen. And he was a disciple of Seigen Gyoshi, again Japanese, who in turn was a disciple of Daikan Eino, the sixth ancestor, Huino, Chinese. So one of the challenges we all have as students of Buddhism, particularly in China, is that there are these two names. There's the Chinese name, and then there's the way the Japanese monks heard and then... spoke that name. It sounds quite different. So sometimes when I'm reading texts and I'm seeing the Chinese name, I have no idea that that's the same name that I'm familiar with in Japanese. So this is just one of the little things that over time you begin to be like, oh, I see. That's the same person. That's not someone else. So these are our kind of major beginning of the lineage.

[13:16]

that goes eventually to Suzuki Roshi, to California. So we're kind of passing through centuries, we're passing through cultures, and we're passing through kind of little subtle changes in understanding of how to interpret what the Buddha saw, what he said, you know, what was written down eventually hundreds of years later, how it changed. And, you know, if you've ever played that game telephone, you know, someone tells somebody something and then they pass it on. By the time it gets around the circle, Sounds quite a bit different than maybe what the initial person had said. So there's a little bit of that going on, a little lost in translation in some cases. But the inspired vision, what the Buddha saw, doesn't change. Buddha's mind doesn't change. And that's the teaching that this is Buddha's mind. What you were just doing, silently sitting, is enjoying Buddha's mind. When there's no agenda, there's no particular mission you're on, there's nothing you have to do. Just this flow of energy, which has no definition to it.

[14:20]

This is Buddha's mind. Same mind that the young prince sat under the tree. Same mind, no different. And then we begin to sort out, it's like Sudoku or something. We start to sort out the pieces and see if we can find patterns, meaning in what we call language. So we start to shape our minds by language. And some of that shaping has become habit, some mostly bad habit. We think certain ways and it's very hard to change how we've been trained to think. So this is a big part of our effort sitting quietly. Part of that is kind of let go of that obligation to think certain ways, try on some new ways of thinking. So I wanted to just go over Shito's transmission story, which is really wonderful. There's some really nice features in this one. It's chapter 36 in the Transmission of Light, for those of you who have the text.

[15:22]

So as I told you the story last week too, just repeat it quickly. So Shito has gone to see Jing Wang, and Jing Wang, his teacher, asks him where he's from. Where are you from? This is a trick question. Where are you from? Kind of a setup. So he hasn't met this monk before. So he's kind of testing him. What's he going to say? Where are you from? So Shito says he's from Huining's place, the sixth ancestor's place, Chaochi. And Jingguan holds up his whisk and says, is there this in Chaochi? Is there this in Chaochi? So he's still testing. And Shito replies, not in Chaochi, not even in India. The teacher says, you haven't been to India, have you? And Shito says, if I had, it would be there. And then the teacher says, well, that's not enough. Say more. And Shito says, well, you should say have to.

[16:25]

Don't rely entirely on me. This is kind of a bright guy, but he's also a little bit arrogant. You get the feeling he's a little arrogant. He's got a good understanding. He's a very good intellectual understanding. And so Jingguan says, I don't decline to speak to you, but I am afraid that later on no one will get it. And Shito says, well, it's not that they won't get it, but no one can say it. So he's still intellectualizing. He's still challenging the teacher with language, with kind of doctrinal, turning the doctrines back and forth and back and forth. Is there something? Isn't there something? Is that dualistic? No, maybe so. How about you say something? Well, how about I say something? So he's playing with these two halves, self and other. And he's using this a little bit like a tennis match. They're hitting the ball back and forth. So to break the spell, you know, Tingguan hits Shito with his whisk. Game over.

[17:28]

And at that point, Shito awakens. He has an enlightenment experience. So something very interesting is happening in this story. And I wanted to go over it a little more because I was just reading Suzuki Roshi's explanation of what's going on here. And it's so helpful. And I thought, oh, that's really good. So part of what's going on here is that we are... We are listening in on what you could call performing enlightenment as a performance. They're not just talking, or they were talking, but at some point, it becomes an enactment. Show me where you're from. Where are you from? Don't just tell me about it. Show me. Show me who you are. What is it that thus comes? And take away all those stories, all your identity. Someone asks you, who are you? I'm sure we all have a memorized little spiel that we give about our hometown and whether we were married or not and how many kids and on and on and on.

[18:32]

So this is really another level. We're not just asking for that. Leave that out. Now who are you? Without all that, without all the narrative. so um this performing of enlightenment is a really key understanding of what what's happening between shito and his teacher it's about the immediacy and and the intimacy when people are in the same place together you know like right now even though it's odd we're together we are together in this place you know uh all of the qualities that I think of being alive, I feel like I'm alive right now. And I would make the same assumption about all of you. You're alive right now, wherever you are, you know, that we're alive together. And right now is show me, you know, show me who you are. Give it to me. So that's this intimacy of the present moment. You know, and we don't need to make a sound.

[19:34]

You know, we are all right here, right now together. We don't need any explanation. We don't need to describe it. We don't need to do anything. It's just what's happening. And even that's going too far. What's happening? So that sounds great because it's one of the few times during the day when nobody's explaining anything. They're just all sitting there and everybody looks absolutely perfect. I love walking around in the morning. I walk behind all the students, and they put their hands up, and I put my hands up. I greet them. It's called a morning greeting. And they're perfect. They're absolutely perfect. It's kind of too bad we have to do anything else. It would just be so nice if we could just sort of keep remembering how perfect it is, just to be present and to be together. So words can't make things.

[20:36]

different than they are. They can't make them come. They can't make them go. And so Jingguan is pointing this out to the clever Shito. No one's going to get it through words. If all you can do is talk about it, no one will understand your teaching. So this is why he's poking at him. You just keep talking, smart guy. You just keep explaining things. But that's not the point. Can you be here? Can you meet me? Can you show me who you are? And partly because words along with mountains and rivers and automobile accidents all come from right here. They all come from the present consciousness that each of us has. There isn't any mountain outside of my awareness of mountain, river, automobile. It's my body. bubble of awareness that is, I call the world. It's each of you have a bubble of awareness and it's with you all day long.

[21:36]

You're going around, you know, looking at the surface of your bubble. It's just that. It's the limitations are you can't see beyond your bubble, you know, even though it's this, it's like a sphere and surrounds you in all directions. Things come into you, it touches you, that you hear them and so on, all coming this way. toward each of us from this awareness, this field of awareness. That is reality. That's the reality we all have, we all know. And when we conjoin our bubbles, we have communication, we have intimacy. Sometimes, like right now, they look more like squares and bubbles, but sometimes we conjoin. our awareness we bring each other into the same into the same spheres we join our spheres together and you know we have meetings we have parties or we play games or whatever and it's delightful and then we go back we go back to our own you know we go back and then we come again and so on all the time we don't even notice you know it's so it's so common

[22:43]

So words and mountains and cars and all of that all come from right here, from the mind that's aware of in the present. This is the Buddha's mind. That's the Buddha's mind, the whole of it, the whole of it. So Suzuki Rishi says in Branching Streams, all things, all feelings, all sensory events, all thoughts are included among the many factors required for us to truly see what he calls things as it is. Things as it is. That's Suzuki Roshi's term for just this is it. Things as it is. He uses this term for reality itself as it's making its appearance within each of our fields of awareness. Things as it is. What is it? Well, you can't really say. I'm very busy trying to say what's going on in any moment, right? You spend a lot of time trying to describe things as it is. And yet we don't have to do anything. It's always happening. We are always right in the center of things as it is for each of us.

[23:48]

So you might remember the story of the Sikh ancestor who comes across these two monks who are arguing about a flag, a banner that's blowing in the wind. And one monk is saying, the banner is blowing. And the other is saying, no, no, it's a wind. that's blowing and they're arguing. Six ancestors says, excuse me, I don't mean to interrupt you, but it's not the wind and it's not the banner. It's your mind that's blowing. So this teaching is said again and again, we hear the same teaching. What you're experiencing is your mind. The star that the Buddha saw in the morning of his awakening was not somewhere outside of his awareness. He was aware of the star. He was aware of the tree and of the grass and the people and the water. It was his awareness that he awoke, he woke up to. It didn't change it. It didn't make a new awareness. It was the same awareness he had when he sat down, you know, the first of the seven days.

[24:51]

But somehow he knew something that he'd been overlooking. Oh, my God, this is my mind. This is my mind. And it's amazing. And it's wonderful. And it allows everything, you know, it's spacious. All of this stuff fits in here very nicely. It's not so crowded. There's enough room for sound and vision and colors and all of that. We've all got lots of room. So in Branching Stream, Suzuki Roshi says, if we want to see things as it is, we need to practice hard with our desires, not to get rid of them, but to take them into account. So, you know, in some traditions, we have wonderful conversations these last three weeks with one of my dearest friends, Gil Fronsdale, who teaches Vipassana style. And, you know, I think the approach is slightly different than this, where there's some understanding that you can get rid of these desires. They won't be bugging you anymore, and then you'll be happy. You know, these hindrances actually will be...

[25:56]

they're not going to be disturbing you. Your mind will be undisturbed by desires, by confusion and so on, which sounds great. I mean, I have no problem with that. And yet here's Suzuki Roshi saying, if you have this computer, if you have a computer, you have to enter all the data. There's this much desire, there's this much nourishment, there's this kind of color, there's this much weight. So without stopping to reflect on all of the data, based on our own limited, selfish view of things, we simply come out with things like, well, that's bad, or that's good, or I don't like this, or I'd rather not do that. You know, all of our preferences just crowd out this vast assortment of things as it is. You know, we just pick and choose, well, of all the things that it is, I think I'll have chocolate, you know, or, you know, instead of strawberry. I really prefer. So we're narrowing down this vast gift of reality to our personal preferences, which are mostly based on habits.

[27:03]

You know, we've done it that way. I always like it that way. And so then we kind of shrink ourselves into this separate, as though we're separate from things as it is, you know, rather than this is your inheritance. This is your inheritance. planet and your sky and these are your stars and so on and so forth. You know, please enjoy the gift of this life. So, you know, rather than narrowing down, we want to really look at our desires like, oh, look what I'm doing. Look how I just shrink my vastness into some small little preference. And I'm really irritated about I'm not getting it the way I want it to. You know, I'm going to send this dish back. That's really not done right. You know, we get very tiny, very narrow. And the feelings that we have when we don't like something. I'm not talking about something I don't know very well. You know, I know it very well. I do it all the time. So when we reflect on how whatever we think is simply that.

[28:08]

It's just what we think. That's all. It's all it is. Whatever we think is just what we think. Not more. Not less. And when we know that. we begin to see things as it is you know it's like oh that's just what i think and that's part of things as it is that's just one of the little elements of what's going on right now i'm hearing this amazing bird all of a sudden showed up you know i'm like whoa you know i didn't do that but i'm really happy i was happy to hear that now it stopped maybe it'll come back so Much of what's happening in our field of awareness is just happening. And we're not in charge of it. It's not for us to say, you know, we like it or we don't like it. So there's something, there's some gift in this teaching of really letting things be and figuring out ways to be in harmony. You know, the harmony of difference and equality. How to be in harmony with that.

[29:11]

So things as it is, is the Buddha's mind. You know, the mind of the great sage of India, which is what starts the Sandokai. That's the first line of the Sandokai. And in the story about Shito, which is in the transmission of light, there's a really nice example of how his own realization deepened. deepened through these stages of confrontation with his teacher. And we can hear it. I mean, I think it's really clearly laid out in this particular story. And Kezon, the author of Transmission of Light, says that it involves these two stages. There's two stages. So the first stage is the stage of vision. And this is demonstrated in this first encounter that Shito has with the teacher. And he's doing all this clever talking. Very clever. Nothing he says is wrong. He's got a really good grasp of the teaching. He's studied hard. He's practiced for a long time. He's visiting teachers, testing his knowledge.

[30:13]

And so this is called the stage of vision. He sees pretty well. He has a good understanding. He's pretty wise. And the teacher is really out of kindness is going to try to help him pop out of that, go to the next stage, which is called the stage of being, of being, B-E-I-N-G. which takes place when the teacher hits him with the whisk. He said, no more talking. Shh. Yeah. So I wanted to finish sharing with you the story from the transmission of light because it has some really nice other features that follow on this particular awakening part. So Kezon is saying that... having thoroughly investigated and penetrated through, if you reach the point where the whole being is revealed alone, as Shito did when he first arrived, you will realize the non-existence of either Chalki or India.

[31:14]

So he's saying, you know, it's not in India, it's not in Chalki, it's not in the Six Ancestors Palace. So he's kind of got it. He knows he's saying the right words. You know, where could it come and go from? You know, he's sort of playing with the teaching. At this stage, the stage of vision, One does not wear the patchwork robe in vain. So he's confirming him as a genuine monk, as a real student of the way. All the more so was this true of Shito when at the blow of the whisk, he realized the fact of being and both forgot himself and also knew himself. So he forgot his intellectual. He forgot the self that could outsmart probably most anybody. And he found his real self, the one that's quiet, the core being, which is silent and still. Right at the center of our being, it's silent and still. And that's where everything's connected. And that's where we all belong. Reality itself is silent and still at the core, before we were born, before our parents were born.

[32:19]

So this is the stage of being. He both forgets himself and he knows himself. He comes to life in the midst of death. In the dark, his true eye was illuminated. This is the inner reality under the patch robe. The patch robe. So one time as Shito was reading a famous Buddhist treatise, he came to the point where it says, it seems that only a sage can understand that myriad things are oneself. things as it is, myriad things are one's self. Only a sage can understand that. So he's reading this. At this point, he hit the desk with his hand and he said, a sage has no self, yet there's nothing that is not the self. The body of reality is formless. Who speaks of self and other? The round mirror is marvelously bright. All things and the mysteries of their being appear in it spontaneously. So he's having this, he's on a roll. He's having this very excited realization about this text he's been reading.

[33:24]

Objects and knowledge are not one. Who says they come or go to one another? How true are the words of this treatise? So he's all excited. So he rolls up the scroll and unexpectedly he falls asleep. So he dreams that he's riding with Zen master Huenong, six ancestor, on a turtle swimming around in a deep lake. When he wakes up, he realizes what it meant. The miraculous turtle is knowledge, and the lake is the ocean of essence. So his knowledge has been swimming around in the ocean of being. So he has this amazing dream. So he says, the Zen master and I were riding on the spiritual knowledge floating on the ocean of essence. And right after that, he writes the merging of difference and equality. So this was his dream. took him to the next level of understanding. And he was like, okay, I've been reading this, I've been studying this, I've got it down, I've got some intellectual grasp on all of this.

[34:27]

And all of a sudden, like he's on a turtle in the middle of the ocean of essence. It's a wonderful thing. So such a dream occurred to him because his spiritual knowledge was already equal to that of Huinong and no different from Zen Master Ching Wong. Moreover, one time in a lecture, He said, my teaching is the bequest of the enlightened ones of the past to arrive at the knowledge and insight of Buddhahood without making an issue of meditation or effort. The body itself is Buddha. Mind, Buddha, sentient beings, enlightenment and affliction are different in name, but one in essence. Mind, Buddha, sentient beings, enlightenment and affliction are different in name, but they are one in essence. All realms of being are just mind revealing itself. Just the mind, like flowers opening. I don't know how it is where you all are, but all these flowers all over my yard are just going crazy.

[35:31]

They're all opening. It's a beautiful time of year. And then at the end, he says, your spiritual nature cannot be separate from his. How could your basic mind possibly not have common ground with Shito? So this is Kezon talking to us, the reader of his book. The existence of states of happiness and misery, superior and inferior conditions, depends solely on whether or not one has developed determination, whether or not one has met with an enlightened teacher. How can we see this story? All at once he raises infinity. Never has he clung to anything beyond himself. So. this so exciting but you know I'm not sure exactly why except that when I read it I think maybe a little bit like Shito I sort of get like oh that makes so much sense you know and then the next step of course is to for me would be go to meet with my teacher and see how well I do you know how well do I do and holding and being able to just be there to be there without a plan or without oh I just figured this great thing out you know that usually doesn't

[36:45]

even come to mind when I'm meeting with my teacher, there's something a lot more interesting going on. And when you're face to face with someone that you respect, you know, it's like, Oh, what do I want to do with this precious time? You know? So Alright, so the sandokai is what he's written after his dream of the sea turtle. And so I wanted to say a little bit about the poem. The san is a Japanese word for three And it means many things. So it represents many or more than one. So stuff, lots of stuff. And Do means sameness or oneness. So we have our wholeness or the whole works. The whole works, as Dogen says. Things as it is, Suzuki Roshi says. Also the great mind or the big mind of Buddha. So that's the context of our life. We are in the great big mind of Buddha, the ocean of essence. That's where we are. That's what we were born into.

[37:46]

And we have the regrettable issue of having come in with this fuzzy consciousness that has made up all kinds of stories about what's going on here. I mean, some of them are amazing, as we know. I mean, I'm reading some stories in the paper and it's like, really? People think that? You know, they think some very odd things. Well, of course I have too. So I'm not just thinking about them. I'm thinking, boy, human beings come up with some very strange notions about themselves and about the world. And the stranger ones are really harmful and actually dangerous. So we're kind of walking ourselves back from the edge. It's like, okay, let's rethink the problem here. We are alive. We've got that part. All of us have that part. So how do we make the best use of this amazing thing? of being alive. You know, we don't want to get caught in the mud of thinking through, you know, like a like through sometimes I think about it having your football helmet on backwards, you know, just looking at the world through this kind of impediment.

[38:55]

So although we talk and talk and talk about many things, those things are all part of the whole of the great whole of being, you know, and so is talking. Talking is not out. It's just It gets in the way. It becomes the dominant. Thinking and talking have sort of, you know, it's kind of like an alien invasion. It's sort of taken over our view of the world around us. So Suzuki Rishi says that many and one are different ways to describe one whole thing, one whole being. To completely understand the relationship between one whole being and the many facets of the one whole being is called Kai. So this is Sando Kai. So this is the third sentence. We have san, which is three or many. Do, which is one. It's the name of this poem. And kai, which is seeing how these things are connected. So he says kai means to shake hands, as in a feeling of friendship. So the feeling that the two of these things are just one, which is truly as they are.

[39:59]

Sandokai. The difference and the sameness are good friends. You know, all the elements of reality are good friends with the whole. Of course, they're the same. And it's only the mind that is lost in confusion about difference and the evaluating difference. Well, this one's better than that one. But Suzuki Rishi says they're equal. The differences mean they're all equal. Each thing has equal value. Each of you has equal value. There's no one better or worse than any one of us. Each thing has its own value as part of the whole, right? We all fit in here very nicely. There's room for all of us. So small mind or small mindedness is a mind that's covered over. It's covered over with the limitations of our desires and of our discriminating consciousness. You know, I like this and I don't like that. And I'm the one who gets to say, you know, I'm the big guy. I'm the one, not reality.

[41:01]

It's me. I'm the boss. So we've kind of turned things backwards from what they really are. The big boss is the one that's all around us. That's the big boss, right? And thank you very much. So that's the big boss. Thank you for giving us life. Happy Mother's Day. And then this idea that we're the boss. I'm the one. I'm so special. Or I'm so bad. Either way. It's just discriminating consciousness. It's just what I think. That's all it is. So when we practice continuously with what appears in our minds, these desires become more porous and not quite so powerful. They're like the football helmet maybe starts to turn around the other way. Instead of having this block, this just kind of thing about what we think is true and how we've always believed and all of that sort of thing, the desires and the opinions begin to become a little perforated. It's got kind of some holes in our thinking or in our solidity about what we think we know.

[42:06]

And then we can see through them, you know, rather than being fooled by them. So there's an image, a poetic image that I heard actually down at Tassajara. I was with some students. I was down there doing a practice period some years back and we were standing. It was a full moon. We just came out of the full moon ceremony. It was a gorgeous night. And we were standing together under these trees, and the moonlight was coming through the trees. And one of the young men said, oh, that's viewing the moon through ivy. And that's the stage of opening, of awakening. When you start to see that reality, you know, beyond this vastness is beyond the ivy of our conceptual, of our discriminating consciousness, we begin to get some peaks at that greater, greater truth. And it's beautiful. It was so beautiful. And maybe it's never more than that. Maybe it's always peeking through ivy. But boy, that's good enough. You know, that's going a long way. You know, just taking those moments to just stop and really look at what's around you.

[43:12]

And this is amazing right now. This time of year is just stunning. So Suzuki Rishi then goes on to talk about the mind we have in Zazen. You know, the big mind. This is the big mind. that does not care what passes through it. You know, that's the trick. To be able to sit in Zazen and not say things like, as most new students do, well, I just can't stop thinking, or I'm just doing it wrong. And so I say, no, no, no, you're not. That's exactly right. You're right. You can't stop thinking. It's okay. What you need to be able to do is to stop being bothered by it. You know, it's just, it just doesn't last very long. In fact, just try to hold a thought, you know. It's just gone. As soon as you grab for it, gone. Here comes another one. Here comes another one. We call it a train of thought, right? It's like an express train, you know. And then on they go, on they go. So part of our job is to just get off the train. You know, it's still going, but you don't have to be on it. You can actually step back from the busy mind.

[44:15]

And it's very quiet when you do that. There's a lot of freedom when you step back and just watch. the vacant hall of your mind and all the little characters that come in and play around in there. You know, it's like the great mind, mind like the sky, whatever kind of bird flies through, the sky doesn't care, Suzuki or Shigeru. This is the mind that Buddha has transmitted to us, mind like the sky. And we even come to enjoy those things that are passing through if we have no special attachment to them. You know, just as we do when we get up from sitting and we go to greet our friends, like here at the work meeting, just good morning. You know, good morning. Just more things coming through our mind. Oh, good morning. There's some people. How interesting. And in the Zendo, we're not so much tuned into there being people or much else, but all these different thoughts are coming through. You know, good morning. Good morning, thoughts. Good morning, people. Same kind of feeling about whatever it is that's coming through your mind.

[45:19]

So this way of seeing can really help us when we see something, for example, at the work meeting that we really like. You know, something we might like to attach to. Like, there's somebody I've been waiting for my whole life. You know, this happens here a lot. You know, people fall in love really fast. And for good reason. I mean, everyone's beautiful. It's amazing. And they're so loving and they come in that way. They're very kind. We kind of seems to be self-sorting to come into a Zen temple because you're a very loving human being and you really care about the world and about plants and climate change and all that. So these folks are really amazing, amazingly good. You know, they don't think so, which is, I think, why they come to see us is like they've lost some sense of how wonderful they are. Maybe they never had that sense. So that's part of our job is to reflect their virtue. All right, man, you are so wonderful, you know? So anyway, so they get caught up in one another.

[46:20]

They get really enchanted. We all know about enchantment. So there's the one I've been waiting for. Or, oh, that's the way I like to see things done. You know, there's a lot of all this kind of positive regard that was sticky, starting to get our attachments around those kinds of thoughts. And so it really helps when we see something, too, that we don't like very much. Same thing. Stuff coming through your mind, you know, can you remain somewhat neutral about things you don't like as much as those things you really do like, you know, whether it's in your mind or whether it's at the work meeting, imagining it could be otherwise. Well, you know, they could do things better around here. I mean, it isn't long when new students arrive, when they start telling us the kind of improvements we can make while we're doing things. And it's like, huh. thank you that's a very nice idea yeah yeah maybe we will move that building somewhere else that's great so anyway it's very popular for zen center to be a target of people's imagination about how things could be otherwise you know and suzuki roshi says in his book he said well maybe so maybe so uh maybe it should be otherwise and then he says but not always so you know not always so

[47:35]

So there's that balancing of like, yeah, we're open to it. We're open to your ideas and your suggestions and your, you know, your negative critique. We're open to that. And maybe we could try it. Maybe not. You know, we're open to not doing it too. So it's very, it's very, the feeling, this porous feeling again, I think is one of the ways we survive together in communities. Yeah. Okay. Maybe so. And maybe not. The maybe is the important part. So without sticking with something as needing to be in some particular way, which is always going to be my way, we open our minds to this widest aperture, to the widest possible range, you know, the big sky, big sky. So without saying, again, Suzuki Roshi, this is a mountain, this is my friend, this is the way it should be. You know, when we don't do that, make it all in relation to us, then it's not a mountain anymore.

[48:36]

And it's not the way things should be. And that's not even a friend. It's just something that's appearing that we don't need to attach to or label or declare that we like or don't like. We can just let it be. And what a gift that is. I just accept the way this is. I accept you how you are. And may I ask that of you as well? Wouldn't that be nice if we could just give that to one another? Suzuki Rishi says that this is the difference between sticking to something and the Buddha way. And then he says, let your ears hear and let your mind think without trying to stop them. That is our practice. Let your ears hear and let your mind think without trying to stop them. It's not easy. And yet having problems with practice is probably a lot better than some mixed up kinds of problems you were having before. That's great. So that's what I wanted to offer this evening.

[49:39]

And I'd very much like to hear from all of you if you have something you'd like to bring forward. Please, please do. Hi, Heather. Nice to see you. There we go. It's nice to see you too. I have been thinking a lot about how fruitful the conversations between teachers and students are. And so hearing you talk about sitting with your teacher and it's not just your intellectual grasp. So I was wondering It's been so long since Suzuki Roshi died. And Tenshin Roshi, it's been so long since he sat with a teacher.

[50:48]

So I was wondering who he talks to. He talks to me. He talks to us. He talks to the other teachers. You know, we're very lucky to have a community of new students who are great because they ask the best stuff. You know, they're not shy. They're not already smart about all this. So they just come right at it, which is wonderful. And then we get to watch how the teachers handle that. You know, how do you respond? What do you do with that? Do you maintain your balance? Do you get a little bit thrown? What happens? That's good, too. You know, whatever happens. So, yeah, I think, you know, I think there's a lot of grief that this community bears over the loss of Suzuki Roshi. He was very young. And, you know, it wasn't time. It was way, way not time. We needed him to stay probably another 20 years would have been good.

[51:48]

And like Mel. Yeah, that would have been good. Yeah, it would have been good. And in some ways it allowed us to, you know, have to really work harder. I think part of the deal with having great teachers is that you can kind of hang out with them. It's nice, isn't it? I appreciate you very much. When the San Antonio Zen Center started, there was no teacher for a long time. And at the time, I thought that was a weakness. But... We sure did rely on each other. And we listened to, I mean, we had access to teachers in Houston and Austin and just recordings and all of that was incredibly helpful. But just on a weekly basis, it was just us.

[52:50]

And there is something very sweet about that. Yeah. Yeah. Wherever we can get it. You know, the teachings are wonderful, too. I get a lot out of these old stories of conversations that were kindly passed on to us so that we can keep that flavor. You know, this has been going on a long time, this conversation. So it's not just us, you know, it's really ages and ages. I keep thinking. Oh, sorry. I keep thinking of that line, the ancestors of old, where is we? I think about that a lot this year. That's right. It's got to be true. I think so. I think so, too. It's a very romantic idea that there used to be this time when everybody knew things that we don't know now.

[53:57]

a little bit silly i know i love i love reading the the uh vinya regulations for the monks that from the old from the earliest uh period of time um and they're they're so i was reading them there's hundreds of them you know and they're very specific and they were laid out case by case so somebody would do something buddha said well don't Don't do that. So that became a rule. So after, you know, 250 or whatever the number is. So I was reading some of them and some of them are grave. You know, don't kill anybody. Don't rape people. Don't, you know, don't. Good ideas. Why? Yeah, they're very good. I'd still write on. But some of them were like, don't hop into a donor's house. You know, don't grab food out of your neighbor's bowl. Or don't stick with your legs. Don't sit with your legs out in front of you. when you're eating. And I was like, I'm like, well, that's interesting. Why would that be in there? And I thought, well, cause these were kids. I'll bet you a lot of the students that came to the Buddha were right out of the woods and they were young and they're probably a lot of, just like now there are a lot of young monks.

[55:04]

Most of these guys, Dogen was 14. She told us, well, you know, they were very young when they started sitting and went to a monastery. So, you know, I feel like if, if, If that's okay, that works. I think we've all got a shot, you know? Yeah. Some of us have table manners already. That's right. That's right. Although, are you okay? Oh, my God. Just when you thought you could eat. Gotta go with it. You do. I'm dreading the next time. It's been over a year since we've done our areyoking. It's going to be a really hard time. I thought about that. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. It's like a origami, you know, getting it all back in. For all of you who don't know, Orioki is a set of eating bowls. They're quite beautiful. They're the set that I received at Ordination. They're black lacquer and they nest. So there's a big one and then there's some smaller ones and they're wrapped in a cloth and they have a, you have a little napkin and you have lap cloth to protect your clothes and utensils.

[56:14]

You have chopsticks. I don't know, not chopsticks, but you know, and a spoon, and then you, and a cleaning utensil. So you, there's a drum and there's chanting and you open your bowls and they bring the food and you eat fairly quickly. And then you put, you wash your bowls, they bring you water, you clean it up, you wrap them all back up again, and then you're done. But, you know, if you don't know what you're doing, which when a lot of students are new, it's really, I mean, we don't, We don't tend to laugh, but it's really good. It's people that they got this extra cloth and they have a bowl that they forgot to put in there. And so it's actually it's very loving what happens with Yoki. So none of you, if you haven't tried it yet, it's really worth the adventure. Absolutely. Serving is also. Yeah, that's the other one. Well, thanks, Heather. Thank you. Good to see you. You too. Miriam. Hi, Blanche.

[57:20]

I thought your talk today was just, I mean, you know how in Yiddish they'd say the tzimis of the real taste of everything. It was so amazing. I just want to also speak a little bit. I also work with the Gurdjieff Foundation of San Francisco. I don't know if you're familiar with it. We had a teacher, Lord Pentland, Englishman, who met with Suzuki Roshi. And I don't know if you knew that. And yeah, yeah. So it's sort of around the time Suzuki Roshi dies, Lord Pentland dies. And, you know, I also was layordained by Taika and Dan Layton many years ago.

[58:24]

So I love Gurdjieff and I love Zen Buddhism. And to me, there's no conflict because it feels like the words are different, but it is... It's sort of the heart of the matter is the same, you know. We might use identification, the word I identify with who I am by the thought that I have, you know. And one of the things that we speak about is not to express negative emotion. You might have it, but to not express it, you know. So those are different works on things. So, you know, I'm not trying to say I'm this or that, but I found that I think the bottom line is that the mind is just going to go on. I think it even probably goes on after we die.

[59:27]

It just keeps going and going and going like a toy you turn on. And each time you want to grab it, oh, this is who I am. This is what I am, you know. And the work is, and I think just what you said is just let it go. You know, just come and go, open the door, close the door, you know, whatever. And so I just want to say I'm very grateful hearing your work. It really speaks to me in an esoteric way that cuts through. cuts through a lot of things that I am not a Buddhist. I'm not a Gajifian. You know, we keep saying I am this and I am that. And it's, we can, you know, it gets kind of muddy for us, even in spiritual world, trying to identify things rather than just here I am, here I am, you know, what is up to me?

[60:35]

What is needed at this moment? So, I hope that makes sense, but I just wanted to share that with you. Thank you. It's wonderful. Yeah, I just, you know, was reading Suzuki Roshi saying, you know, some people say Buddhism is really Taoism. And he said, it doesn't matter. I know that it's like, it's like food. If a Taoist eats it, it's still tasty. If a Buddhist eats it, it's tasty. If a Gurjifian eats it, it's tasty. It's just food. Just don't get into some kind of, you know, confusion about it. Just enjoy food. And you are serving something. It's unclear what it is, but you are serving something. And it's bigger than me and it's bigger than you. But it's a service. Lucky, huh? Are we lucky? If we can catch it every once in a while, yes. If it catches you. That's when you're really lucky.

[61:37]

Yes. Thank you. And I think sometimes how that happens, it's very interesting. Sometimes I think there's life events that occur in a human being. And it's usually for me, it was a loss of someone that brings me and opens me up. And so that opened me to one thing. And then many years ago, another loss happened. And that also pulled me into... finding Taigen and working with him for many years. So it's kind of like. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, thank you. Taigen's my Dharma brother. We got ordained the same day by the same time. I love Taigen. I love Taigen. Wonderful. Satish. Hello. Hi, Fu.

[62:38]

How are you? All right. I missed your lecture on Saturday, but hopefully I'll see your recording. Yeah, it was fun. It was Gil Fransdale and myself together. It was a team tag team. It was quite wonderful. We've been teaching together for three weeks and with Paul Haller. And I don't think I've had more fun in a long time with Dharma friends, you know. I don't know if I'll be able to watch the Q&A if that was recorded, but I'll watch the lecture. There are several points in today that you spoke about. First, I think it's very dense. I had to watch it again. There's a lot of between the lines, a lot of things I have. One of the reasons I missed your lecture was because there's a very... intense worrisome family issue going on with some children and other things that's been on my mind and there's another family issue going on so educating myself and other things but the context to this is that whatever thoughts arise you said something Hiroshi you said it much better than stay with it or

[63:59]

Let it arise. All the worrisome thoughts or rumination is what we call it. So you said it much better. I'm just getting there, but I'm not able to get there. But the rumination and the worrisome thoughts come. Psychology says whatever. You don't worry or you crack. But then again, it really doesn't work. I have to go through it. Yeah. Be with it and all that stuff really doesn't do justice. You said something that... So that was interesting one way I related. Another thing you mentioned was know yourself and forget yourself. It reminded me of Mark Lesser's first book, Know Yourself, Forget Yourself. Mark Lesser wrote that book and then feel deeply, stay equanimous. And then two, three more things are there. But anyway, I forget. But I do have to read the book.

[65:00]

I haven't read it. My question to you is, these are so many ways it connected to me. I have to see you. Probably did not realize how much it connected. The question is, there is a, I thought you said there were three stages there, debating the student and teacher as a WAC, a stage of vision and stage of being. I thought there was another stage. Was there another stage? Not in this story. Sandokai has three parts. So the oneness, the difference, and then the friendship between those two. So kai is their connection. There's no separation between the multitude of things and the singularity of the consciousness itself, which holds, has space for all the things that you experience, including your... challenges and also the things that make you feel good and delight you, there's room for all of that because it's just within the mind.

[66:02]

It's all within the mind. So we don't know that. We actually think that stuff is coming at us from outside. And that's what's so terrifying or so frightening. It's like we feel like we're under attack rather than, oh, that's my mind. I am afraid. I'm feeling fear. That's going on. This is here. And so how I negotiate with my own emotions and how I think about things is why we sit. I mean, meditation is a perfect opportunity to watch when you're in a neutral space, when you're trying to problem solve difficult things like you're talking about with your family. That's not a really easy time to notice just what's going on and be neutral. You can't be neutral. You have to take care of it. But when you're sitting in meditation and the stakes are really low, it's just like you got 40 minutes just to be here. You don't have to do anything. Just set it all aside for 40 minutes and let yourself watch this thing that's just running around in here.

[67:13]

Yeah. And notice how much room there is. You know, cosmic consciousness is one of the jhanas. It's the last of the states of, you know, trance. And it's basically your imagination is capable of expanding to the size of the universe. And this, I don't know if this, yeah, I'm actually offering it as a sounding board. After stage of vision and stage of being. Yeah. For me, what arises naturally is stage of... disseminating or service or state of doing. Well, that's good. That's right. And that's actually what he did. That's what Shito did. After he became a real boy, like Pinocchio, then he actually went to work in the world. So those stages were basically about his realization. And the same thing with Buddha. After he had his realization, then he got up and he went and began to teach.

[68:17]

So you're absolutely right. That's the third stage. It doesn't say this in the story, but that's what happens in the story. It's like the third turning of the wheel. You just don't stay on the top of the mountain. You come back down. That's right. That's right. And holding up the flower. How do I even say what is in my mind? I can't hold any words. Just smile. Maha Kashyapa did. He just smiled. I was like, oh, did Buddha just twirl a flower? Yes, he did. What does that mean? Nobody knows. You know, now I remember what you said and why it's hit me a little differently when Suzuki Roshi was saying your consciousness is like the sky. Whatever arises in the sky, there's something to love. The bird or whatever thoughts, anxiety thoughts, there's something to love about as well. And it reminded me of Pema Chodron's quote, you are the sky, everything else is just the weather. There you go. And I mean all the beliefs, identities, gender-based, race, ethnicity, Indian, whatever it is.

[69:28]

For me, I had to chew on it for a year and a half on various contexts. I like most simple things that I can stick with me and reach very easily. Yes. Very eloquent forms, which have a space to, but on a day-to-day instantly. When I chewed on it again and again, then it said, got to the very core beliefs and opinions with which form the core identity. You don't need to hold on to them. You can, as a rope, take it off and put on another one. You are still here. Yeah. Well, you know, based on your background there, Sashish, I think you kind of got it. You know, it looks very good. Yeah. I hope I can be a beach bum for a week in Southern California, Hawaii at some point. I hope you do too. I hope you do too. Yeah, of course. Hi, Guy. Hi, Fu.

[70:30]

Happy Mother's Day. I hope things are well. Yes, I hope things are well with you. You're muted or some odd thing because it doesn't look like it, but I don't hear you. Can you hear me now? Let me see. Yes. Yes. Can you hear me clearly sometimes? Yes. Yes. I just wanted to say happy Mother's Day. Thank you. Thank you. And second, what Miriam said, truly amazing talk. I feel extremely grateful that I was here to be a part of it. So I just wanted to express that and make sure second that that opinion as well. Thank you so much for it. I appreciate it. Thank you, Guy. So nice to see you. I hope you stay well. Good. Hi, Lisa. Okay. Got it. I'm the third voice saying something about today.

[71:33]

We talked today just really hit. Then I'm thinking about is I'm coming up with this logical problem which probably is a problem right there but the idea of communication and the bubble and if it's mind only how do we know that the communication that's coming in is nothing other than our construction projection You know, all those little squares are never going to merge. Right. It's magic. There's something, yeah. It's beyond. Yeah. It works, and yet it shouldn't work. It doesn't make any sense. You know that. You're a scientist. It makes no sense. Yeah. You know, the more the scientists go up and the more they go in, they're all sounding like mystics, right?

[72:37]

Yeah. Can you believe there's nothing there when you get down to the final chapter of, you know, they're waiting for the Higgs boson to come through, right? I got this physicist friend. I'm going like, could you tell me what a Higgs boson is? So he did this whole thing about the dining room here and the teacher comes to the dining room and all the students go around and I'm going like, I don't think I got it. So anyway, but you know, he's like amazed and he can... His girlfriend found his journal, she was telling me, and she said, can I look through your journal? He said, oh, of course. And she opens, it's all numbers. It's just formula. So, you know, we don't know. We're just trying notations, poetry, songs, opera. You know, we're all trying all these ways to make sense of that which just is magic. We're trying.

[73:40]

We're trying. But are we trying just for ourselves? No, you can't. There's no self. There's no just self. There's no by myself. That doesn't make any sense. Where'd you get that chair? Yeah. Many different places. And those drapes. And that moon. And those stars. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I have a problem. That's okay. Which is a good thing. Yeah. It's a non-resolvable problem. But there's a logic problem there with mind only and communication. Well, I have a story for you. So the... This is about first cause. Where's this coming from?

[74:42]

What's going on here? What's happening? Do you know that story about first cause? No. So the teacher, the student keeps saying, well, where's this coming from? What's causing this? You have to explain it to me, right? What's the first cause? And the teacher said, well, I wrote that question on a biscuit and I tried to feed it to my pig, but my pig wouldn't eat it. Do you get it? It's like... You're never going to be satisfied. Never. So the only choice is to forget about it. You don't have to have a problem. It's really okay. It doesn't mean you can't think about things or love ideas or really want to get the Sudoku squares all right. That's fine. You know, it's fine. Yes. That's what you do in your spare time, isn't it?

[75:43]

Oh, yeah. But anyway, it's fine. It's just if it's a weight, you know, it doesn't have to be heavy. It can be light, you know, wanting to know. And accepting that you never will. Well... I think I told you all this story of my adventure in the Navajo land where I was laying in Kenya to Shea, which is a great privilege in itself, with some Navajo friends, and we were sleeping. It was late at night, and I was watching the sky, and I thought, this is the place where I'm going to know if I'm ever going to know it's going to happen here. And so I stayed awake for hours watching the sky. And then at about just before dawn i'll make it a little more dramatic actually was earlier than that this voice out of nowhere said you will never know i was like so relieved yeah i was like you mean i don't have to try to keep i have to keep trying to know i really it's a mystery wrapped in a dream

[76:59]

You know, life is a mystery. And then we wrap it in a dream as though we could know it. And so when you take the dream away, the mystery is still there. Beautiful as ever, as amazing as ever. And you're not going to know. Well, even if you did, you know. Would it change anything? What would you do with it? People write books about what they know, you know, bestsellers. Well, thank you. You're welcome. And happy Mother's Day. Oh, same to you. Same to you. All of you. Okay. I think we're about there. Well, happy Mother's Day again from all of us to all of you. And please take good care. I think we're getting through this. Well, I don't know if we are. still happening isn't it terrible friends one of our students is from India and she's just we're just praying with her every day so lest we forget we are not alone so thank you all very much you're welcome to unmute and say goodbye if you like please take care thank you

[78:23]

Yes, thank you. Thank you, everyone. Thanks, everyone. I'll see you next week. Bye, everyone. Bye. [...] The bubbles. Bye. Bye. Bye. Goodbye. Goodbye. Kate and Paul, nice to see you. Always, always. We got a wonderful postcard. Yes, you did. I told you there was one thing missing. Wonderful. And the thing that's missing was Sarah, who was really the main force behind this. I said that to her. She said, but tell him I was taking the picture. Yes, she wrote that on the clock. But that's not the point. She was amazing. in getting that to happen. We just provided the, you know, funds to do it, but she was the main force.

[79:27]

She's an incredible project. Yes. The bell tower, the rose, the farm. I know. We're trying to keep her healthy. We love you guys. Yes. You guys. It's so mutual. Everything is in balance. But I realize our donation is Our expression of gratitude for what you're doing. That's our response to the whole practice place. And I appreciate your expression of thankfulness to what we did, but that's not the point. It's what you're doing that we thank by supporting it. Well, thank you. And it's the song of the Jewel Mirror Samadhi. We see each other in the Jewel Mirror. And it's true. We see you and you see us. And it's absolutely perfect. Yep. Yep. Just perfect. We couldn't, what would be the point of either one of us without the other?

[80:29]

Well, of course. Okay. Receiver, giver, receiver, and gift. Thank you. And thank you for your talk yesterday. It was just awesome. Oh, great. Oh, good. I'm glad you were there. Thank you. Yes. We'll download it and listen to it more times. Okay. It was really inspirational and very, very well done. Thank you very much. Okay. See you next week. Thank you. Good. I look forward to seeing you guys.

[81:06]

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