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Guest and Host
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8/19/2009, Leslie James dharma talk at Tassajara.
The talk primarily explores the dynamics of being both a guest and a host within one's practice and interactions, especially when faced with strong emotions or decision-making. It emphasizes the Zen concept of "host within the host," as mentioned in the Jewel Mirror Samadhi, which involves receptivity to experiences without full ownership, highlighting interconnectedness and non-creation of self. The speaker discusses maintaining responsibility without clinging to rigid outcomes and embraces not knowing as a valid Dharma position. Additionally, the discussion touches on handling strong emotions with curiosity rather than suppression, promoting a balanced approach to internal and external experiences.
- Jewel Mirror Samadhi: This text is referenced in discussing the concept of being a "host within the host," which is about practicing openness and awareness in one's internal world as perceived in Zen practice.
- Book of Serenity: Cited for the poem in its fourth case, emphasizing the ability to function within the world while remaining receptive to unexpected influences, capturing the notion of being a master within the mundane.
- Ajashanti: A teacher mentioned in the context of decision-making, suggesting that many decisions may not truly be self-initiated but influenced by broader causes and conditions.
AI Suggested Title: Guest and Host Within Ourselves
I am feeling a hundred thousand million helpless, and I need to see that I can listen to you, to bring a miracle that I set. I pray that I want to fix the truth of the doubt of the rest of the world. Tonight we're only about three and a half weeks away from the end of the guest season. And we've almost made it through this one. Different than last year. For which we're all very grateful.
[01:01]
A lot of you know that I am a big fan of the guest season. I think it's... Of course, it couldn't happen without the practice periods. happen in the winter it would be a very different event without that deep time but I also feel like the practice periods can happen in the way that they do without the summer that there's something for the especially for those of us who stay here for a couple a few years that there is something about having to come out of that space, that kind of precious space of the winter practice period, and share this very special place with the new students, the workers, the guests who come, that's very good, actually necessary, for our practice and development.
[02:14]
That if we could just go into the quiet... practice period and stay there forever, there would be something too precious about it or too narrow about it. Of course, it's not easy to come out of the practice period. I remember my first summer here, which was actually after my third practice period, because I did a practice period and then I went away for a summer. Then I came back and did two more practice periods. So my first summer was I was the head of the cabin crew. And at that point, every winter, we would move all the furniture out of the cabins and store it in the lower barn, and then we would move it all back in the spring. And we didn't have a work period like we did now. It was just us trying to do this chain, you know, from the practice period to the summer. every year until we finally figured out years later that actually we did a lot more damage to the furniture moving it back and forth then somebody living with it through the winter would probably do but so at that time we were moving all the furniture and nobody as far as I could tell anyway no one that I was in contact with knew how to do anything like we were supposed to paint the bathroom in stone for how to paint anything I had no idea and we
[03:41]
As I remember it, we messed it up day after day after day. We'd go in and we'd try, and it would turn out worse than it started, and we'd have to do it over again. But I was really enjoying this. I mean, it was a lot of work, and we were moving fast, and so I was having a good time in spite of the frustrations and confusion of it. Keith and I were living up on the hill, so I would work hard, work, [...] and then I would go home on the breaks and sob. Without much thought, I would just lay down on the bed. I was probably partly really tired, but also there was some grieving for the practice period. This world that we had created together was gone. It didn't even have time to get destroyed. It was just gone. I don't cry during the work periods so much anymore. Not at all that I remember. partly from knowing through experience that the practice periods will come again, and also having experienced what a special time the guest season is, and how we all create this together, how you, the guests, also make this place.
[05:00]
If you didn't agree to not go into each other's rooms and steal things, we would have to put locks on the doors, right? So there's a lot that, sort of without even knowing it, we create together. I remember one woman who came here for the first time in the summer, and she had some difficulty, so I happened to be talking with her, and she said to me, where do you get these people? We just open the doors and they come in. Just like we all just came in. But she was so taken with everyone she'd met at Tassajara, which is kind of how it is, at least for a while, that everyone is quite wonderful. Of course, then if you stick around, they get a little more complicated. So given that this end of the guest season is upon us,
[06:04]
I actually wanted to talk tonight about something a little different but connected, which is an idea in Zen of... It's a really complicated idea, but I'm not going to go into the complications of it, just sort of my simplified view of it, which is the idea of guest and host. That the simple version is that we each practice with the attitude... or the mindset of being a guest and being a host. And that there are sometimes when you do one and sometimes when you do the other. But what I want to talk about is when we actually have to do both together, which can be called guest and host, but can also be called, as it is, I think, in the Jewel Mirror Samadhi, it's called the host within the host. There in those last few lines that we chant, about once a week in morning service, practice secretly working within as a fool like an idiot.
[07:12]
If you can do this continuously or just to continue in this way, it's called the host within the host. So I often have this feeling, like when I'm walking around Tassajara, of being the host. especially in the summer. A lot of you come back, and here you are, and great, great to have you back, and what do you need? Oh, I need another bed in my room, or I need a special diet, or various things, and to be ready to do my best to try to make that happen. And yet, sort of within the host, feeling... Well, let me go on and say something more about it. I think there are two, probably many, many times, but two times that I thought of where this comes up as a question.
[08:18]
How to have this attitude of guest and host together, or being the host within the host. One of the times is when we're having a strong feeling, And another time is when we're not having a strong feeling and we feel like we need to make a decision. So if we're not having a strong feeling and life is just going along, probably we don't question it too much. But if we feel like we need to make a decision and we don't have a clear feeling about it, that's one time. Another time is when we have a strong feeling about something, either a positive strong feeling or a negative strong feeling. So how would... one um enact this host within the host when we're having a strong feeling and the again the jomir samadhi i think is kind of a clue this practice secretly working within as a fool like an idiot so to feel like a host of our own internal world
[09:33]
that something is arising internally and externally, and externally and then in response to that internally, things are continuously arising and to have the attitude of welcoming them and receiving them and of being willing for them to be anything. Usually we have a fair amount of... preference about what might come into our life, what might come from the outside, what kind of people sit down next to us at dinner, or what roommate we have, or how our partner treats us, or various things. We have quite a bit of preference about that. And then we have even more preference about how we respond to it. If it's something we like or something we don't like, we have a pretty, usually a pretty developed idea of what would be an okay response.
[10:41]
So to somehow loosen that idea and make space for whatever comes. There's another poem. It's in the fourth case of the Book of Serenity. And I think I'm not going to bring up the whole poem because it doesn't all quite relate. But there are two lines of it especially that I wanted to bring up tonight. The two lines are, Able to be master in the dust. From outside creation, a guest shows up. So able to be master in the dust is kind of like practice secretly working within. Able to be, well, maybe they're a little different. Able to be master in the dust. The dust are kind of like the world. So able to function in the world with this body and mind.
[11:48]
Able to take care of, to whatever extent we can, whatever arises. then from outside creation, from outside the things that we're doing, that we're mastering, a guest shows up. Something comes that might even be a surprise to us because it's not something that we've created. And I think this is one of the things, it's hard for us to believe or get a feeling for that we don't create ourselves. We feel this tremendous responsibility for who we are and what we do, and some portion of that responsibility is true. What we do has an effect, and we can't move away from the responsibility. That's part of being the host, is we actually are responsible. But we don't create it. So when someone walks in the room and we have...
[12:54]
a response to that, we have a feeling that comes up, it isn't something that we've created. So can we be open to that and still not give up responsibility for what effect that has and for what effect what we do with it has? Can we hold it, one way to think of it is, can we hold our internal world in the same way that we hold our external world? So can we treat those things that arise inside us, in our feelings or in our thoughts, with the same detachment in a way, but it does not necessarily detach, but the same lack of ownership, that we would treat something that walks in the door? even though it's closer to us and we have to take responsibility for it, still it's not necessarily the truth just because I'm feeling it.
[14:04]
It's more like it's part of the story. Or another way that I think about it is kind of like the universe, whatever part of it I want to think about, you know, Tassajara or the world or the whole universe is... a big mandala, or a collage, or anyway, something big but connected. And some portion of the energy in that mandala is bundled up in this body and mind that this consciousness that I think of as me has contact with. And it's sort of my responsibility or my ability to make that portion of the energy part of the picture. And sometimes that's by saying it.
[15:05]
Sometimes that's just by a blink of the eye or a shudder. But somehow, this portion of the energy in that whole mandala is... channeled through or manifesting through, activated through this body and mind. And it's my consciousness responsibility to be there with that. And to feel like the host in that situation, you know, the receiver of that energy that's very connected to the things that are supposedly triggering it. And yet, it's not my creation. It's not my job to make sure it stays there. It's more like it's my job to be open to it and to see whether it stays there and to see how to express it, to make a guess, really, a guess about how to express it.
[16:16]
So when there's a strong feeling, it may feel... it's kind of heated. Whether it's a strong negative or a strong positive feeling, there's a lot of energy that comes through this body and mind. And it's, as the Jumar Samadhi also says, turning away and touching are both wrong. So to pretend like it's not there can cause a lot of trouble, but to get in there and try to kind of force that energy on the situation and on other people is also doesn't work so well or causes more pain so how to be a conduit for that energy when there's a lot of it is one of the questions of how to how to be a host in that situation and then another as I said another situation where I think it comes up for us is when we don't have a strong feeling but we feel like we need to make a decision
[17:23]
This is a big one that people often talk about, and I've had a lot of questions about it in my life as a person who often has a, some people think a wishy-washy feeling, but I call it a subtle feeling that I sometimes can't tell what it is. So that I might wonder, what should I do in this situation? So I've looked at it a lot, and a couple of things that I've... learned is that one of my problems in that kind of situation is that I think there's an answer I think if I could just see clearly enough there there's not only an answer there's a right answer now there's the right thing that I should do in this situation and then there are myriad wrong answers and if ice my feeling is that if I choose the wrong answer I'll somehow get off the track I won't be having the life I was supposed to have or something.
[18:25]
So if I can just get through the fog, if I can count the pros and cons again and get to the right answer. I think this is really not true. It's a delusion that there's whatever we do will be the next step. That's like the start of the answer. And then it unfolds from there and good things will happen from it. and unpleasant things will happen from it but uh there isn't some hidden answer out there it's more like um well which leads to i think we have to be i need to be willing to not know that not knowing is a legitimate dharma position sometimes it just is the case we don't know We don't know what we think about something. We don't know what we're going to do. And we think, well, what if I don't know right up until past the time that I need to know?
[19:28]
This is a big fear. And it's very important to watch and see what happens. I asked Mel once this, and we have a special ceremony where everyone asks the teacher a question. And I asked Mel, what about if you don't know what to do, what do you do? And he said, well, eventually you will know like if you're standing with one foot on the boat and one foot on the dock and the boat starts to move you'll do something you know you'll either step to the boat or step to the dock or end up in the river all of those are legitimate answers to the question what do I do should I go to the boat or to the dock neither one and you end up in the river something will happen And if someone says, I need to know by this time, you either tell them something and take the consequences or you say, I don't know, you choose. Maybe if they chose, you'd suddenly know what you really deep in your heart wanted.
[20:33]
So that trusting that it... So again, it's like practice secretly, working within. Like a fool, like an idiot. Being willing for there to be whatever is there. If really I don't know is there, okay, I don't know. And what would that mean? What would that mean? Well, step by step, staying right with the present. I don't know, I don't know, I don't know. Maybe at some point we actually know. There are good teachers. Ajashanti, I think. Is that his name? Ajashanti. Says, we don't make any decisions. And he may very well be right. I'm not quite ready to assert that, but... You know, I think often we don't.
[21:35]
We think that we're making a decision, but it takes so much support from the universe to actually... get from where I have a thought, I want an ice cream cone, especially from here, to actually get to an ice cream cone. You know, was that really my decision or did the whole world come together and say, you should have an ice cream cone? Let's go for it. I'll drive you. David, right, you'll drive me, right? Well, one of you will, I'm sure. No. So does it, you know... If we watch, I think it's very hard to tell, or isn't this poem, the one I only gave you two lines of, the commentary for those two lines, the one is, able to be master in the dust. And the commentary for that line is, one day the authority is in one's own hands. So to be living your regular life, but realizing that
[22:44]
The authority is in my hands. I am not a victim. I am not forced. I'm actually acting, living in the life that I'm living and doing the things that I'm doing with my agreement. The second line, from outside creation, a guest shows up. The commentary is... Observe when the imperative goes into effect. Observe when the imperative goes into effect, which is such an interesting... I can't usually actually be there for a decision that needs to be made that I'm waffling on, or even one that I know what I want. And then does that really happen? Does that decision really happen? Usually I lose track of it before... the time somehow something happened.
[23:46]
And rarely am I right there at the moment of decision. So to observe when the imperative comes into effect, what is the deciding factor? Is the guest internal or is the guest external at that point? Whose presence is making a difference? to cultivate the the attitude of receiving welcoming helping within a within the host you know being the host within the host within a something, whatever this thing is that we're living in, this universe, this mandala, this body that is acting, constantly acting, interacting with the different parts of itself.
[25:00]
I think the way to cultivate that is this presence, practice secretly working within like a fool, like an idiot. As much as we can do that sort of moment by moment, letting the universe, for lack of a better term, come forward as it does in a momentary fashion, as it comes from the outside and from the inside. Oh. from outside creation, a guest appears, a guest shows up. So do any of you have anything you'd like to say or add? Brendan? this decision, and this is what I wanted all along.
[26:16]
Because I feel like there's a tendency to believe that our life is of our making, or if it's something that you just ask, you know, like, my life and my experience, and this is what I do with it, and what follows is what follows from my decision to what I want to do. You know, I've noticed myself in the last couple weeks of talking to different people about their plans, especially around practice periods. It's been like, my thought has been like, well, what do you want to do, you know? And I've just noticed people have been giving this decision over to others, to teachers, you know, or circumstance. And it's just kind of, just now, just kind of starting to take root that, you know, there's To end up where you are isn't necessary based on a decision that you can get. The causes and conditions have been present in order to push you there.
[27:20]
I don't want to hear anything. I mean, death especially is something I think that... Kind of out of our control. Yeah. Hold us right out of there and it changes our lives. Yeah, so how do we do that and yet not give up responsibility and commitment? Yeah, go ahead. Yeah, and I think there is a value in having, if we want something, having that be part of the picture. But yeah, how to let... Relax around it a little bit like what we want is not stable is not something we have to keep protecting How do we let it be part of the picture and part of something that other people might respond to also Yeah, I think it's very much an ongoing Performance
[28:31]
I don't know what's going on, but it's a lack of ownership. I think we let go of that sense of ownership. Open space? Yeah. What I was trying to bring up tonight is how to have total ownership total responsibility and do it with such a light touch that it can all disappear and become ownership of something totally different in a second. So, right, there's not very much that we know, there's nothing very big that we know, but we might know something small, like, I don't know what, you know, like, I really love working in the kitchen, or... I really am afraid of the practice period or something that we might know.
[30:08]
But is that going to be true a second from now? We're not sure. But for this second, it might be true. And we might be able to say, don't put any more peppers in that soup. OK, OK, maybe you should. Koji. Don't say that.
[31:08]
It doesn't sound good. Especially for me. Yeah, right, especially for you and me. But do you know what I mean? If you felt like if you were making a decision or you were responsible, still you were joined by everything. You know, like if you made a decision to stay at Hasara, basically people would have to agree with you for it to come true. Would that... make you just naturally not be so proud of that decision or so ashamed of some decision. Is that what you mean? Or maybe it was complicated.
[32:24]
Most things are really a lot more complicated than we like to think. When Zen Center finally got Tassajara and there was the opening ceremony for Zen Center taking over Tassahara, Suzuki Roshi said something like, this is a wonderful thing that we're doing today and some not so wonderful things will come from it. So there's no sort of pure act. Yes, John. Yeah, can we do our best with, I mean, if we, whatever, we make a decision or we go a certain direction, can we meet it wholeheartedly?
[33:54]
Whatever comes there, even if it means turning around and going back. Which sometimes, you know, we need to make it, or we need to, again, I don't know for sure if we make that decision, but let's say for the moment we do, we make a decision, Sometimes we need to do that in order to see, oh, this is what I meant. Actually, it was back there. That's where I meant to be. Worrying and fretting about it, most of what we think is probably pretty wasted. On the other hand, I think there is something that happens in... Our minds don't necessarily work the way we think they do. Sometimes I think they just need to run around and do their thing. It's just part of the process. We think they're thinking about the problem, but really they're just like, I don't know exactly what they're doing. Just running.
[34:57]
They're obsessing about something. It's like there's a groove there that they have to go around and around in to get to what the next thing is. And we think... I'm really trying to decide. It's just maybe a way for our minds to spend the time until it happens. I don't know exactly what it's doing. So I think it's time to stop unless there's something that has to be said. Yes. which very much matches my own spirituality. So I guess the question is welcoming and tending to a really bad guest. It's really hard to take responsibility, but when a strong emotional guest is really outstated, it's welcome. I don't know if you're using this image.
[36:00]
Yes. Well, what do you mean by not working? I think you better go back to not knowing there, because we don't know exactly what serves the whole, usually. We might have some idea about this is not a good way to feel, or it might be really painful. That might be one thing that would make us tend to believe it would be really good if this went away. Usually the feeling this should go away definitely adds to the pain. So if there's any way to get past that to something more like curiosity about what it is, not necessarily believing the story that we put on it,
[37:04]
you know, like I hate this person and I hate them, or like, you know, envy can arise is one of the most painful things, right, that can arise. And it so rarely is really about the person that we think we're being envious of. It's so much more about ourselves. So to just to try to make a little more space around it and try not to believe our ideas about how long this should last. what it should lead to you know just what is this kind of if we again this just presence with it practice secretly working within just with the kind of presence at present attention where it separates it a little bit from the story it's it's just like energy happening you know energy flowing or sometimes not flowing, stuck in our bodies and in our minds.
[38:11]
And exactly what it's supposed to do is, you know, really from outside creation, I guess, shows up. So I think you're right with what we call negative emotions. it's very hard to have an open mind about them. And partly because they're dangerous. You know, we've seen how much harm they can cause. They can hurt our friends, our family. So how to take care of them in a way that doesn't leak all over everything is one of the questions. But not having ideas about that we shouldn't be having them is one of the steps in there that helps. Or having at least a crack in our certainty that it shouldn't be there. And then some curiosity about what it is. Okay, thank you all very much.
[39:13]
May our intention equally extend to their being and place.
[39:24]
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