Four Levels of Tantra

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I can't see all of you, but I can see some of you. I think all of you can hear me. Can you? Tonight's subject is a little bit too big for me. 400, my goodness, this is really an enormous subject. I try to make it as simple as possible for myself. Maybe you know already, but somehow I feel it is important for me to explain to you the definition of tantra to begin with.


When Buddha Chakramuni gave his teachings, he did not write anything. I am sure he did not make notes. I don't think there was anybody taping. But all the teachings that were given by him, recorded by his disciples into their head. So that was one of the traditional ways, I guess, which made the teaching of Buddha available for all of us.


His disciples later wrote down everything that they have received from Buddha. Buddha had been giving the teachings all through his life, after the enlightenment. And the teachings that Buddha had given varied according to the individuals who received those teachings. Therefore, the people who came to hear Buddha, to receive teachings from Buddha, did not come in an order. All kind of people came in all kind of time and situation.


Therefore, the teaching of Buddha not necessarily was given in order. Buddha taught as a reflection to those who came to hear him. But, when the disciples wrote down his teachings, they had to put it in order. Otherwise, it would be confusing. Therefore, when the disciples put the teachings of Buddha in order, they made it into particular categories of teachings. Vinaya, Abhidharma, Sudra and Tantra. These are the four particular categories of teachings.


In these four categories, the disciples of Buddha wrote it down. When it comes to Tantra, there was an esoteric aspect involved. Does that bother you? Not me, that. I think we have to imagine it is not there. There is no one but us. When I say esoteric aspect, some of the teachings of the Buddha, which are Tantra, are not necessarily given to flesh and blood and bone human beings.


Therefore, when those kind of teachings continued, was slightly different from the other teachings that were given to the human beings like us. So, that part is something that we have to be aware of. Because everything is not just written by his disciples on a paper with ink. There is other aspect as well. But anyway, to make it simple, try to look at those things which were written by his disciples, by human beings like us. The Vinaya, Abhidhamma, Sutra and Tantra. Vinaya, the entire teaching, the Vinaya, each of these means lots of volumes. Each of these doesn't mean one chapter.


Each of these means lots of volumes of teaching. As you know, in Tibetan Buddhism, the Vinaya, Abhidhamma, Sutra and Tantra makes exactly 100 volumes. 100 huge volumes. I think out of these, one Sutra was translated, I think. And this Sutra was originally one volume. But when it was translated into English, I think it became four volumes. It's about 1000 Buddha. Description of 1000 Buddha. It's one volume. It became four volumes, I think. So, this is a massive amount of teaching. Now, every teaching which is categorized as Vinaya, that is about discipline.


These basic fundamental aspects of discipline are taught by Buddha. And that particular teaching is Vinaya. Now, there is intellectual aspect. You might call it philosophical or scientific aspect of teaching that is given by Buddha. Which is Abhidhamma. And then, the Sutra. Sutras are all aspects. Sutras are mainly involved with attitude, philosophy and also how to practice good attitude.


Compassion, all of that. And also, very advanced aspect of philosophy. Such as Prajnaparamita, the emptiness aspect of philosophy. This entire subject is Sutra. Then, Tantra. The Tantra is beyond the conventional, let's say, fundamental principle. More subtle but advanced principle. And it's interrelated philosophy and practice, application.


This entire subject is taught in a most total and also simple and also complicated way. And this is Tantra. Now, when you look at the entire teaching of Buddha from this point of view. As the disciples of Buddha wrote down and put it together into categories. Then, it shows that there is a definite process that a person goes through. Which starts from most basic fundamental.


And gradually, you become more advanced. And at one point, you go beyond of conventional fundamental sort of boundary. You go beyond of that. You have to go beyond of that. And so it shows sort of step by step process. And that's how one can look at the entire teaching of Buddha. As put into writing by his disciples. Buddha's disciples. So, now you know where the Tantra belongs. And the most important thing about Tantra that a Tantra practitioner or Tantra learners should know.


Is in Tantra, look at everything equal. Tantric view looks at everything equal. Doesn't look at good thing as something put up there. And doesn't look at bad thing something to bury underground. No. So, look at everything equal far as the reality is concerned. Good is also reality. Bad is also reality. So-so is also reality. Well, now, when you do that, I mean that is the only way to deal with everything effectively. So, now, every single little thing plays an equal role.


Every single little thing that we do, we say, we think plays an important role. Every single little thing, the positive or negative, somehow have to result something. And now, through the Tantric practice, through the Tantric practice, according to the different levels of Tantra, through the Tantric practice, then you are able to involve with particulars of life in a particular way which will result a valid benefit. And that benefit should be closer to the sort of, it is alright to say, closer to the realization, enlightenment as possible.


Closer to that as possible. So, it doesn't mean the Sutras, the Vinayas, Abhidharmas don't have that. But in Tantra, specifically emphasizes it. And specifically the entire Tantra teaching based on it. That is the definition of Tantra. Now, how the Tantra teachings are continued? Just as Sutra, Abhidharma, Vinaya, same. Generally speaking, same. It was continued from Buddha to his disciples, from that disciple to another disciple.


As far as that is concerned, the continuation of all teachings is same. But what kind of disciple? Now, there is some kind of differences, are there? The Vinaya taught to Vinaya disciple. And Tantra taught to Tantra disciple. The Abhidharma taught to Abhidharma disciple. And Sutras were taught to Sutra disciple. Now, who are the Tantra disciples? Who are the Tantra disciples? Now, the Tantra disciples of Buddha are very special people. Very special beings, you might call it. That means, Tantra disciple of nowadays and Tantra disciple of Buddha, there is some difference.


Well, I can understand it. I am also a Tantra disciple, so I can understand it. Not of Buddha, of nowadays. I am a Tantra disciple of nowadays, so I understand it. Nowadays, Tantra disciple, there is reason which makes it slightly different from the Tantra disciple of Buddha. Nowadays, Tantra is already there as a tradition. So you can just happen to involve with that tradition. Of course, there is a reason and karmic connection and all of that. That part is still as before.


But specifically, it is already there exists as a religion, as a teaching, as an organization, as a center. As a kind of culture and tradition from particular place. Therefore, just by involving with it, you become Tantra disciple. And there is another aspect, which is, we just go around with open heart. Maybe not. Open mind, close heart. I am joking. It sounds terrible, no? What about open heart, close mind? Well, something like that, we go around. And since we go around looking for something that we somehow were longing to encounter for a long time.


And then we hear about Tantra. We hear about the, how do you say, wonderful aspect of Tantra. The simplicity sometimes. Sometimes the complex, no? Individuals, some individuals, they somehow get inspired by complex. Some individuals, they get inspired by simplicity. And not only individuals, you know, individuals in individual times. Sometimes you get inspired by complex. Sometimes you get inspired by simplicity. Who knows what? But because of a particular reason, okay, we get inspired and we get touched. Therefore, we go and listen to a Tantric lecture.


Isn't that interesting? Well, listen to a Tantric lecture. Or go to a bookstore and look through all the books that are there, you know. And look into history and say, oh, that's not for me. Look into science and you say, that's not for me. Look into spiritualism. You know, that puzzles you. It really catches you right there. And then you go closer to it and look through each book. And you find Tantra. And you say, that's for me. Anyway, many of us encounter with Tantra that way. So we are slightly different. During the time of Buddha, you know, a disciple comes to Buddha and learns from Buddha.


And without any idea of Tantra or what, anything, just learns from Buddha. Inspired by Buddha, just Buddha. Therefore, then Buddha teaches whatever is the right thing to that person. Sometimes it happens to be Vinaya. Sometimes it happens to be Sutra. Sometimes it happens to be Tantra. Or in certain Tantric lineages, Buddha manifests thousands of miles away. Not just somebody go and listen, go and see Buddha and get closer and closer and closer. And at last in front of Buddha, you know. And they will listen to the voice of the Buddha. Instead of that, Buddha manifests to that person thousands of miles away.


And Buddha manifests as a mandala. The universe, I mean atmosphere manifests as a mandala, the surrounding. And Buddha manifests as a deity, the Yidam. And then the particular empowerment was given. And particular teaching was part of the empowerment, etc. So that also is usual aspect of many Tantras. So that one and we are slightly different. Slightly different. I don't mean we are worse than them. I don't mean that, but just different. Because Tantra happen to exist already. And Tantra happen to belong for one country.


I mean, you know, all Tibetan Buddhism is Tantra, no matter what. A Tibetan kid by birth is a Tantric follower. You see, so that way there is slight difference. Now, when you look into the entire Tantra teaching, when you look at the entire Tantra teaching, far as simplicity is concerned, there is nothing more simple than Tantra. But at the same time, the complex, you know, far as the complex is concerned, there is nothing which is more complicated than Tantra. I think you understand what I mean.


Therefore, therefore, again, the entire Tantra, it is important for a person who like to learn Tantra, especially in one lecture. Is this a lecture? What is it? I think it is a lecture. In one session or one lecture, I mean, we definitely need an effective trick, you know. Effective kind of technique. And that technique actually is traditionally four levels of Tantra. Four levels of Tantra. Clear? I'd better say it in Tibetan, because my Sanskrit is not so good.


So, Shakyu, Kyuju, Nanjoju, Nanjokamiju. These are the four. Chajyu is clear. Clear. Kyuju is, I think, Upaya. I think in Sanskrit they say clear yoga, Upaya yoga, or Upayoga. I'm not sure. I'm terrible at Sanskrit. Isn't that terrible? I can't help it, you know. Then, I think Nanjoju is called Yoga Tantra. I'm quite certain about that. Yoga Tantra. Nanjolanamepa, I don't know exactly, but something like... Actually, here is several individuals, not who went to Sanskrit University.


Nanjolanamepa, can you say that? I think they are being very, how do you say? I'm not modest. It's tricky. Well, anyway, Nanjolanamepa means the highest of all tantras. Nanjolanamepa means highest of all tantras. Okay. So, we failed to get the right word. Never mind, we got the right meaning. Now, Nanjolanamepa. Okay.


Now, the details of Nanjolanamepa. Nanjolanamepa has three details in itself. Then, some of the things that they try to hint me is right. Paju, Maju, Nimeju. Paju is, I think, in Sanskrit... Please correct me if I'm wrong, okay? In Sanskrit, Paju is Maha Yoga, I think. Maju is Anu Yoga. And Nimeju is Ati Yoga, right? So, Paju, Maju, Nimeju. These three are the three different levels. Different particulars in Nanjolanamepa itself. The three details of Nanjolanamepa within itself. So, sometimes, there is a way to describe the tantra by six.


They say, Chaju, Chuju, Nanjuju, Paju, Maju, Nimeju. Sometimes, it is explained like that because one thing is explained as one, two, three, four, five, six. But when it is explained as four, then there is a valid reason for it. Because it's actually four different levels. Three aspects of the last level. Three aspects of the last. Nanjolanamepa. The Nanjolanamepa is explained into three aspects. Paju, Maju, Nimeju. And especially, the Kanju lineage explains as four. Four tantras.


Paju, Maju, Nimeju is into the Nanjolanamepa most of the time. But I can't draw, and nobody can draw a conclusion on Vajrayana. Any aspect of Vajrayana teaching, you can't draw a conclusion. That is how complicated it can be. No? That's the way it is. You can't draw a conclusion. And you can't draw a conclusion on everything. No? At the same time, that is, we are Buddha by nature. Right now, we are Buddha. Can you believe that? Right now, we are Buddha. So, it can be simple as that. But to draw a conclusion, I am not Buddha yet. Maybe if I work hard, after a thousand lifetimes, I might be Buddha.


Maybe that's a bit too ambitious. But it's possible to be a Buddha. So, it is difficult in a Vajrayana connotation to draw an ultimate conclusion on anything. Because what I can understand, that is absolutely according to where I am. What I can say is absolutely according to what I understand. Since I am not Buddha, I have more to understand. Therefore, if I draw an ultimate conclusion on what I understand,


then I am saying this is Buddha. You know? This son of my mother is not Buddha. So, that's the way it goes. Quite simple. Straight. Simple. When you try to understand the four levels of Tantra simply, well, it is very important for all of us to know that why we wanted to know about this is because we wanted to somehow be clear what four tantras are all about. I guess. Beyond that, we can't really expect to do something with it right now


without getting many pieces of puzzle together. You know? That is definitely the kind of attitude we should have for this kind of talk, talking and listening. The Kriya or the Chajju, we say Chajju. Chajju is the first step of all the tantra. There, as far as physical discipline is concerned, observe particular kind of diet, be vegetarian, etc. is very, very important in Chajju.


And cleanliness is very, very important. All aspect of fundamental pureness is very important as part of this practice, Chajju. It is almost correct to say, almost all the Chajju sadhanas they don't involve with, well, there is two level actually in Chajju and first level of Chajju almost doesn't involve with self-visualization. It is something like the deities are up there, you know? Something that you can't reach up there. And the practitioner is down here.


There is the sense of the deity is the superior and you are something which longs for the power and blessing of the deity. There is lot of gap between the practitioner and the deity. And to be able to get the blessing, you have to be clean mentally, physically, etc. And that is the general rough, let's say, particulars of the Kriya or the Chajju tantra. Now, in certain Chajju practice, when I say the Chajju have two aspects.


In the other one, which is called Chajju Chaparjan, which is something like exclusive, specific, special, which is the first step and second step, the second step Chajju. In that, there involves some self-visualization. But even you have self-visualization still up and down, you know? The front visualization is up there. Self-visualization is down here. That's way the practice involves. Now, when it comes to Chajju, the second tantra, the Chajju, then that changes. That changes, therefore, is more like an American way.


The deity and yourself, equal. Democracy. The expression that is used there is like a brotherhood. You know, like brothers and sisters. The yidam and yourself in the same way. It is like brothers and sisters. The reason is quite simple. We are sentient beings down here. Buddha enlightened up there. What makes us down here and Buddha up there? It's just a simple matter. You know, just a simple thing. Buddha, he became who he ultimately is.


So he's up there. I am not yet who ultimately I am. So I'm down here. You know? My ultimate potential is still kind of tied and gagged. Therefore, I'm not able to speak what I supposed to be able to speak. I'm not able to do what I supposed to be able to do. Therefore, I'm a sentient being. And Buddha is already liberated. Therefore, he's already enlightened. Now, somebody became Buddha. So, that is the only difference between us and Buddha.


You know? Ultimately, each of us are nothing less than Buddha. Ultimately. But relatively, each of us are very different from Buddha. Therefore, in Kriya or the Chajju, as a beginner, as a beginning stage, then the Yidam is up there. The practitioner is down here. But Juju, as a second level, second stage, higher stage, higher aspect of Tantra, then the practitioner and Yidam equal. In Juju, the importance of particular things that you should eat and you shouldn't eat,


particular things that you should do and you shouldn't do, as far as the physical aspect is concerned, still there is something about it. And the same as Chajju, the Kriya, the Juju also have different levels. So, the beginning, the first levels are more concerned with all of that, and the last levels are less concerned about all of that, all of the physical aspect of restrictions, etc. Now, when you learn about Nanju-Ju, now in Nanju-Ju, the particular, the definition of Nanju-Ju is concerned.


There are four things that are involved with this, which make Nanju-Ju something specific. Nanju-Ju is slightly one more step from Juju. These four things are entitled as Tumme. Tumme is Nanju. Tumme. Tumme somehow represents, you go, I think it's alright to say beyond, you go beyond of the fundamental dualism, such as fear and greed, such as. The other side of that is something like good and bad.


Good and bad. Therefore, in Nanju-Ju, in Nanju-Ju, the importance of absorbing something out there physically, because that particular food is impure, something like garlic or something, I don't know, you know, the garlic is one of them, quite certain. And what is the other stuff? Fish is other stuff, I think. Or pork. There is so many of them. Anyway, this kind of food and also particular activity, you somehow can sense what I try to say,


not involving in those things. As far as the good and bad is concerned, in Nanju-Ju, there is less emphasis on all of them. As far as good and bad is concerned. But there is other factors, you know. If it develops your anger, then somehow, no matter what kind of practice you involve, but anger always becomes an obstacle one way or another, then you will try to avoid it. You know, it doesn't mean a Nanju-Ju practitioner should somehow carelessly involve in everything. It doesn't mean that. But the emphasis on the restrictions are much lesser than the Ju-Ju.


Ju means Nanju, that is the definition of Nanju-Ju. Simply speaking, there is much more. Each of these, we are talking about many volumes, each of these. So it can be much more, but simply speaking, this somehow indicates the subject. Now, when you look into all of these three, and the last one, the Nanjur Lama Meva, Nanjur Lama Meva, by this word, by this title, describes it directly, obviously, this is something different, or something superior to all the three previous ones. Because it says so, Nanjur means yoga,


Lama Meva means nothing above it. You know, nothing above it. Lama Meva, Ju. It doesn't say highest, but Lama Meva means the highest. You know, nothing above it, that means you are the highest. So, Nanjur Lama Meva, the yoga, yoga means the practice, way of involving the yoga. Lama Meva, which doesn't have anything above it, the highest of tantra. Kathu means effort, but a serious effort. Something almost like hardship. You have to work hard. Kathu, you know,


Kathu is more than just an effort. It involves sacrifice, you have to sacrifice a lot of things, and you have to work hard. The Kathu. Rigche means, rig means like recognize, realize, understand, see, that is rig, you know, you see it, you understand it, you recognize it. Rigche means which does it. So, the whole sentence says, through external hard work. That hard work and effort makes you see the inner truth,


the essence, the realization. So, that is the, that is the, that is the word which describes, one word which describes all Manjurju, all three. But this word does not include Nanjur Lama Mepa. So, you can say, Kathu, Rigche, Jigpa, and Nanjur Lama Mepa. Now, this Nanjur Lama Mepa, of course it also has another term, I can tell you later. The Nanjur Lama Mepa itself have three particular levels in it. Paju, Maju, Nimeju.


This is very simple, when we talk about it roughly. Paju means like a father, Pa is father, and Yal, the masculine aspect, Paju. Maju is mother, the feminine, Maju. Nimeju means, Nime, roughly speaking, this means sort of inseparable, like unity, roughly speaking. But there is something a little bit more than that. The unity, the unity, it is not that there is Paju and there is Maju and these two are different, then you unify, no. Not that kind of unity. But there wasn't any difference


to begin with. So that kind of unity. So I don't know what kind of word we have for that. But somehow, Nimeju, the Paju, Maju, Nimeju. Paju involves with the principle of method, Maju involves with the principle of wisdom, and Nimeju involves with the essence of both, the method and wisdom. Now, when you look into detail, the each, the Paju, Maju, Nimeju, each of them, the Paju has Paju, Chir Paju, Paju of the Paju, Maju of the Paju, Nimeju of the Paju, you see, Paju to Paju, Paju to Maju,


Paju to Nimeju. So you can go on and on and on, this with all the other two, and it becomes almost endless. It can be, there's no conclusion I say, so it can go on and on, and we will be busy just counting it, all life, and no time for practice. Well, I mean, so, when it comes to the Nandrolana Mepeju, all of these particulars, it involves with particular mandalas, particular mandala, particular tantra, particular yidam definitely, mandala means the, mandala means the birth, surrounding, and the center. You know, mandala,


translated into Tibetan, becomes jil kor, and jil means the center, kor means surrounding, and that is the meaning of the mandala, the jil kor. So, each of us are mandala, my mind is my center, my body is my surrounding, my body is my center, my home is my surrounding, my home is center, and my universe is my surrounding, and my planet is center, and whole galaxy is my surrounding. You know, that's the way it goes. So, mandala principle means that. So, each of these tantras have its own mandala, the surrounding and the center. Center and surrounding. Now, when you really look into it, some of the mandalas


have hundreds of deities. So, each of deity are center, and it have its own surrounding. But all of the deities are surrounding one deity in the center. That is the middle. So, that is the center, and all of them are surrounding. So, it is absolutely complex. And that tantra, tantra means the particular tantra. When you look at something like Kala Chakra, or Hevajra, or Guhe Samaya, each of the yidam have tantra. It can be Hevajra, it can be Kala Chakra, it can be Guhe Samaya, and its surrounding. Its surrounding. And its tantra. Now, there is Guhe Samaya tantra, there is Kala Chakra tantra, there is Hevajra tantra. Example.


And each of those tantra have so many tantras. And each of them have so much particulars, like a network. And then, of course, out of which lots of commentaries come about. So, it becomes hundreds of sadhanas, hundreds of commentaries, and dozens of tantras for one particular yidam. And that's the way it is. Now, when we look at it like that, where the word tantra goes, is those things, those teachings about that particular mandala taught by Buddha. That is the definition of tantra. Anybody writes something about it, then it is not tantra. Somebody might call it, but if you really find out,


it is not the words of the Buddha, then it is not a tantra. It is commentary. It is elaboration. It is summarized text or sadhana by such and such great master. So, each of these, the Paju, Maju, Nimeju involves a tremendous amount of mandalas and tantras, but the whole thing involves with one thing, that is Nanju, Lana, Mepiju. Now, Nanju, Lana, Mepiju, now the first three have one word, which is Katu, Rikshi, Tikpa. Katu, Rikshi, Tikpa. Now the last, the Nanju, Lana, Mepiju


have another word, that is Wangju, Tapji, Tikpa. Wangju, Tapji, Tikpa. The meaning of that is Wangju means like master. Master. Tap means method. Tikpa means something like yana. Now, the meaning of that is instead of hardship, you struggle and you somehow force yourself through the difficult let's say journey to reach a kind of final destination. Wangju means you master. Because from the


Nanju, Lana, Mepiju point view, there is nothing that you don't have. There is nothing to fear about. There is nothing that you should be how do you say desperate about. You are there all the time. And you have it all the time. You just have to master it. Sounds wonderful, isn't it? That suits me, no? I just have it all the time, so I just have to master it and I will wait for tomorrow. I'm just going to master it. I'm going to decide. I mean, philosophically speaking, theoretically speaking, it's like that. But when it comes to practice, that is different. When it comes to practice, we have it all the time.


But we just can't decide just by saying okay, I have it all the time, now I'm going to master it. This is it. That wouldn't be it. Even if we have it all the time, we have to go through step by step. Steps can be faster, steps can be slower, and also we can step back. You know, we also can step back. We shouldn't forget that. So, steps can be faster and slower, but must go through the step by step process. And, the highest tantra, which is Nanyo Lama Meditation, which describes very clearly as Wangyur Tath Tegpa. And, that is, the practice, whatever practice involves there,


whatever teaching, whatever method involves there, is just a method. It is a method to master. Not to, not to go through hardship and sacrifice and, you know, the sense of you struggling, not that time. That is the previous word. Gat Rigjit Tegpa explains that very clearly. So, these are the simplest, roughest and most neurotic way to explain about four tantra. Okay? I don't have any other choice. So you have to forgive me. Well, now,


I think this kind of knowledge, this kind of information is very valid, I think. So, I'm very happy, even it is a neurotic kind of, you know, expression. I'm very happy to be able to express it to you and you all are here to somehow listen about it and if you got something out of it, I'm more than happy. Because, because we can't help anybody who come to us not to be badriyana. We can't help, you know, anybody


who learn from any aspect of Tibetan Buddhism naturally becomes badriyana. They become badriyana follower naturally. Even we teach them Hinayana, they become badriyana. Even we teach them, you know, Mahayana, they become badriyana. Okay. Now, when you become badriyana, one way or another, you involve the tantras. One way or another. You might involve seriously sometime or already. Already you are involved. Possible. You know, maybe even without you knowing you are involved. You're already involved. Therefore, since you involved with tantra, if you know which is which, even roughly


as I'm explaining this evening, this will be very valuable because when you know what is going on, then your confidence and your somehow, let's say, dedication, you know, the trust becomes more personal because you know about it. Otherwise, you might spend many years just wishing but wondering. You know, wishes first but then somehow wondering what's going on. What this supposed to be? What does it mean? What am I involved with? Therefore, I appreciate very much our Residence Lama asking me to talk about it and I'm very happy


that all of you came to listen about it and I'm not ultimately disappointed by myself. Well, I think our communication tonight is not too bad. We got something from each other and I don't think I explained anything totally upside down. Tilted here, tilted there. All right. Well, you have any question? We have some time for that. It can be any kind of question. Okay? If I don't know, I will say I don't know. Uh-huh. I read or


heard somewhere about the Dzogchen Dzogchen and according to the book, I believe it was explained as being outside of the four contours. Would you classify it in this as your and outside Tantra or Anuttara Tantra? Just curious as to how would you classify it? Okay. All right. I will attempt. Okay, I will just attempt. I should. You give me no choice. You gentlemen give me no choice. Well, I think it is all right for me to say Mahamudra Mahadhi the Chachan and Dzogchen. This


aspect of teaching, you know, you say I am teaching Mahamudra. I am teaching Mahadhi. It might sound anything but but it is it is let's say two-way traffic. Okay. It is two-way traffic in a way one way. It is it can be the most fundamental most basic. Another way it can be most advanced and the final. It is not one-way. It is two-way. Mahamudra can teach from the simplest


most basic to the highest and Mahadhi can teach from the most basic simplest to the highest. It is not right for any of us to say any teaching of Dzogchen or Chachan is beyond even Sutra. Forget about you know Manjubana Meppa. You know the many things I mean the basic Mahadhi the basic Mahamudra is the common sense. It is the teachings of the parents. And it can be advanced. It can be the final. It can even be the result of the Manjubana Meppa. It can go


beyond of Manjubana Meppa. It can be the result of Manjubana Meppa practice. The definition of Manjubana Meppa is very clear. Wang Ju Tat Ji The method Wang Ju Tat Ji The method of mastery. So it is a method. It can it can go beyond of that as a result. Therefore it is more than a method. It is result. So one can say you know a Mahatma practitioner to say Mahatma one aspect of Mahatma is beyond of the methods. Therefore it is beyond of the Manjubana Meppa. One can say that. Mahamudra people also will say that. But it doesn't mean that's it. At the same time you have to look at the other side


of the traffic. You know. It goes all the way down there. And it is not something which is outside. It is it is the whole thing. Mahamudra and Mahaati is like a canvas. The whole teaching is like a painting on that canvas. When you were talking about the lack of and the things that we should do and shouldn't do would they be compared to the vows that we take when we do in Yunye? Yes. Yes. Yes. Something like that. Yes. Well if you don't have any question related with


this subject you don't have to worry. Okay? Anything you'd like to ask you can. Over there. Yes this is maybe not exactly with this particular subject. I'm sorry this is maybe too too elementary question. Don't worry. Don't worry. You used the word enlightenment together. Enlightenment. Yes. Could you please tell a little bit more about it if you don't mind. It is obvious that I can't talk about it 100% because I'm not enlightened yet. But I can somehow talk little bit about it. Enlightenment or you know the ultimate realization or Buddhahood they all


they all means the same thing far as Buddhism is concerned. But this is a word anybody can use it. There's no copyright for the vocabulary. You know so therefore therefore it depends on who uses it and what they mean by it. But far as Buddhism is concerned enlightenment realization ultimate realization there's many level of realization ultimate realization and Buddhahood all is same. Now the meaning of that is ultimately we all Buddha ultimately we all the purest the best each of us there is no ultimate evilness in the whole universe. The ultimate evilness doesn't exist in


Buddhism. Evilness negativity is all relative. Ultimate is the pure. That is the definition of ultimate. Now when even we are pure by nature relatively unfortunately we are not that pure. No? We have lots of things lots of things everywhere and when a person purifies or otherwise work out all the negativity all the obscurations all the defilements when you work out all the negativity then when you totally done with all the negativity your


pure ultimate potential manifests. Your pure ultimate potential is liberated. That is enlightenment. You become who you ultimately are. That is the definition of enlightenment. Ultimate realization. But when I say relative realization you know I mean I'm quite certain I'm more realized now than 20 years ago. I hope so. I can say definitely I hope so. I feel like that but maybe everybody flatters me so much. Anyway ultimate realization means not just you're a little bit better. The final. Okay?


Thank you. You're welcome. I've been doing some reading about Tibetan Buddhism I've come through to all of this but one of the things I've been reading is that there's no inherently existing self. That we're just kind of an aggregate of our I'm not sure what processes or whatever. Well the question I have is if there's no inherently existing self what is it that gets stuck in cyclic existence or gets reincarnated or becomes enlightened? Okay. Well I think there is there is very interesting subject. That is very interesting subject. I don't know why sometimes people you know sometimes people write something so boldly and then don't even think twice. You know I mean there is


no self that's true but it is a very big subject. Therefore if you're going to say there is no self you better explain it. Right next to it. You know? I mean there is no self that is just half a century ago. But then you better explain it one full page at least. Otherwise this doesn't make any sense. Otherwise this doesn't make any little bit of sense. No? Well what it really means is there is no dualistic self. There isn't the dualistic self. That's what it means. But there is ultimate purest best essence which is beyond duality. That is there. That is


Dhammakaya. That is Buddha nature. I mean that is there. You know? That is there. But the dualistic self dualistic self the I this is just a kind of one makes million and million makes one sort of interrelated interdependent manifestation. So that's what it means. Now I think you know I'm quite certain if you saw if you read that book carefully I'm quite certain that has to be written somewhere close to it. If it is not there that means I'm afraid the writer was little bit rushed. Yes. What you say is that there is either a concrete entity


or process or consciousness that is continuous is consistent through all lifetimes? Oh yes. Oh yes. Definitely. I mean the dualistic dualistic I exists in relative. You know? I don't have to explain that. I don't have to prove that. All of you know very well. I mean we all you know involved with it and through the blessing of that we are talking. Otherwise I wouldn't talk you wouldn't hear. So that is always there. But ultimate is of course related you know ultimate of this relative. Yes? I have a couple of related questions. Fine. I read somewhere that a


toku is not actually a reincarnation of the same being but rather that an enlightened being will have to in a sense transmit his blessing to someone who is I would say far along path. And that being will in a sense be the reincarnation. That suits pretty well. Okay. Yes. Well the other question sorry. Well can I answer that first? I did not answer yet. Oops. The Anila have more questions. Leave it there. You can put it down. Well the toku toku the word toku emanated body. That's what it means. Now this is an enormous word. Okay. This this word


is not just incarnation. Incarnation is Tewa. It is like rebirth. It is not emanated body. You know a dog is dead. But that dog was a good dog. Therefore that dog was born as a human being. It is not the emanation of that dog. It is the reincarnation of that dog. So toku the word and Tewa is different. So first you have to clarify that. Emanation is intentionally emanated. Emanation emanated. Rebirth means because of karma was born as such and such. So everybody is reincarnation. Everyone. Ants, bugs, humans, dogs, birds,


everything, fishes, everything reincarnated. Now emanation is a particular definition. Now this word emanation itself like anything you can't generalize. There are so many levels. Now the border the border beyond which is emanated and below which is just reincarnated. Now this border is very simple. person who had done something positive, extremely positive and gained lots of realization many steps of realization in this life. Not Buddha but highly realized


individual and through the power of that person's conviction that person's dedication that person's compassion the person is born into next body next life which will naturally benefit lots of beings extraordinarily you know that is the first definition of truth the emanation. Then from there onward then it goes to the truth of bodhisattvas the truth of Buddha the truth of bodhisattvas I mean bodhisattva who is below first level who is first level who is above first level second level third level fourth level until you know the highest bodhisattva is ten level bodhisattva there is much


more until Buddha now Buddha Buddha's manifestation is nirmanakaya the word in Tibetan word is saying truku truku dharmakaya longku sambhogakaya truku nirmanakaya so that truku the word and the and the emanated reincarnation is same word but all emanated reincarnation are nirmanakaya no no way ok the nirmanakaya the definition of nirmanakaya is the nirmanakaya of Buddha but of course as a theoretical explanation this body is our nirmanakaya this speech is our sambhogakaya this mind is our dharmakaya we can go on and on but then it doesn't


mean this body of ours is relatively same as the nirmanakaya of Buddha no way ultimately got to be relatively the same but relatively not so we are now dealing with the relative because we are in the relative level so so when you say tulku you know it means that person's manifestation that person's intentional manifestation now intentional have many levels you just wish to be born as such and such and you were born that way because you have all the conditions you have done extremely well in this life so that is also considered intentional and then real intentional is knowing where


you want to be born how you want to be born and you just intentionally with awareness you were born there that is slightly different from the previous one you know and from that level until the nirmanakaya of the Buddha all is tulku and tulku have many levels because of or because of you know it starts there and it ends the Buddha nirmanakaya yeah and if it is blessed by somebody you know if it is blessed by a great master and that is called tulku we don't call that tulku we call that disciple that is the disciple blessed by Buddha so that is the disciple disciple of the Buddha blessed


by a great master and that is like disciple and disciple means many things disciple who will follow and practice or disciple who will fulfill the activities of that particular bodhisattva that particular Buddha etc also I think it's been said that Marfa is an emanation of Padmasambhava is that the correct term to use emanation I think so I think so emanation is the best way I mean it doesn't mean Marfa is the disciple of Buddha of course why not but it doesn't say that it doesn't well in that case like when Marfa was


with Naropa and then he saw a manifestation of the mandala and Naropa was there and he had the choice whether to prostrate to Naropa or to the mandala and he prostrated to the mandala and then because for that reason his family which was Naropa so the question is that if he's an emanation of Padmasambhava then who is considered the second Buddha then how can you make a mistake well well I think maybe he made that mistake to help us not to make that kind of mistake of course it can be anything you know that's what I mean by Vajrayana you can't draw a conclusion and if you're drawing a conclusion here like how a lawyer would draw a conclusion for a case you know I mean you know no no no I mean a mistake literally mistake


and somebody was stupid and made a mistake you know and in Vajrayana you don't look at it like that it's you know no two situations can be same so you can't you can't that is the definition of Vajrayana in Vinaya there is written law you know written law written law like Vinaya rules you're supposed to do this you're supposed not to do this everything is written law in Vajrayana it goes beyond there is written law too but somehow it is it is very different from that so the how Marpa made a mistake there I mean you know I think I don't know but it can be very good mistake I'm sure yeah yeah well


I mean maybe he made a mistake well these these kind of things you know now I tell I mean just to be simple there's no way of drawing a conclusion in that sort of thing good one that reminds me of a the story Marpa's son did he die falling off of a horse yeah he fell off the horse because he was racing horse during the new year something like that yeah was he was he ever found after that somebody was telling me well there was lots of things yeah in the stories he tried to enter a body of a dead boy and the dead


boy was all of a a certain the eye was blinking so parents thought it is a devil's something something and then parent destroyed that dead boy body you know something like that yeah but i mean you know that is part of the part of the story does that bother you gentlemen well actually my question was along with saying why that what i've written was that he indeed reincarnated successfully after a while and then actually started another lineage in india and i was just going to ask if you knew that there was actually honestly speaking i never read that anyway either i i have heard that it doesn't


mean that it's a you know that is good reason it is not there i mean you know i know so much i mean i know only so much i might ask you if it's alright about books that about tibetan buddhism that we can read here and say there are many degrees of bodhisattva hood and there's if i pronounce this correctly vajradhara in tibetan buddhism who is equal to buddha and i was wondering if you'd say something about that okay well vajradhara is another way of describing buddha okay we say buddha vajradhara but when you say


guru vajradhara that's something else buddha vajradhara did you ever look at the look at the refuge tree on top of there there is a blue person sitting you know right on the top that is buddha that is nobody but buddha okay and buddha turned blue i mean you know the color blue the the symbolism of this is okay i'm sorry for that symbolism of this is uh that buddha that buddha uh symbolizes the dharmakaya sambhogakaya nirmanakaya all three in one there is no way to draw dharmakaya therefore


the blue color the color of the space represents dharmakaya the nirmanakaya the buddhashakyamuni all the marks you know where he is supposed to look too bad there was no camera but somehow you know traditionally it was continued so long here and everything you know all these special marks i'm sure they are slightly exaggerated but still that is the only way so so the this this represents the nirmanakaya and then buddha that nirmanakaya buddha with ornament you know the crown all the ornament all the jewelries and everything so that represents sambhogakaya so sambhogakaya nirmanakaya dharmakaya all together is represented


by vajradhara so that is buddha vajradhara that is buddha but if you wanted to be little bit specific if we wanted to be little bit grandiose there is space for that we say this is not only the buddha sakyamuni this is all the buddha you can say that so that is buddha vajradhara now guru vajradhara is very simple buddha we relatively don't have the opportunity to see and listen therefore our teacher somehow represents the buddha as far as vajrayana is concerned the teaching of buddha is continued through the lineage and you receive the blessing of the buddha the teaching of the buddha through the lineage therefore the guru


represents buddha that way so the guru vajradhara the buddha vajradhara in the middle there is another one that is guru vajradhara on the top there is one that is the buddha vajradhara so the entire lineage is sandwiched between guru vajradhara and guru vajradhara that's where it is so so so the guru vajradhara the middle so [...]