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Embracing Uncertainty in Zen Practice

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Talk by Zenju Earthlyn Manuel Osho at City Center on 2025-10-18

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The talk emphasizes the concept of not knowing within Zen practice, drawing on teachings from Suzuki Roshi's "Not Always So" to challenge the audience's preconceived notions and promote openness to new experiences and understanding. The speaker discusses personal anecdotes to illustrate the unpredictability of life and encourages embracing uncertainty as a potent part of spiritual growth, highlighting the idea that preconceived notions often obstruct true understanding.

  • "Not Always So" by Suzuki Roshi: Edited by Edward Brown, this collection of talks underscores the theme of uncertainty and challenges the reader to reconsider their assumptions, a central thesis in the discussion.
  • Dogen Zenji references: Quoted to illustrate the deeper, less rigid understandings of concepts, such as water or self, which are often misapprehended in their material forms.
  • Personal experiences with Buddhist traditions: A reference to Zen practice through personal evolution, contrasting initial understanding with deeper insights gained through persistent engagement with Zen teachings.

AI Suggested Title: Embracing Uncertainty in Zen Practice

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Transcript: 

I am the worst that I ever heard of this hour in my life. We just want to get into this, whether I ever gave me any one chance for you. If you don't really know how I'm going to be with you, I'm just going to be able to get out of this. How did it get into this to see anyone with this, too? This is a really good one where it's like it's such. I'm not going to be well, but I don't know what's in case the truth is that I'm going to tell you some of this words. Good morning. Good morning.

[01:20]

It's good to see everybody here. So many friends, old friends. Old, old friends. Good to see you. I'm so happy to be home. I knew this would be a hard day for me. And this is just where I am right now, right in this. So many things have supported my life here at the city center. This is where I was trained. I walked in those doors in 2000. And so I'm so happy to be back. Some people are missing, but there's so many beautiful new people here.

[02:22]

Okay, I promise I have something funny to share with you. We won't stay there. And we'll go back there if we need to. I want to tell you a funny story. We'll start there. It's a short one. So as a child, I used to hang out in the kitchen with my mother all the time. And she would be cooking a lot of my favorite things. Of course, everything was my favorite thing because I really liked food. Thought I was going to be a chef. I started collecting books when I was 11, 10 or 11 cookbooks. at 10 and 11 years old. International cookbooks, all right, so really reaching.

[03:25]

And so I watched her cook and sit there. Mainly I was a bit greedy, actually. I wanted her to hurry up so we could eat. I was always wanting to eat and eat good food. And so I learned how to cook that way, actually. That's how I learned how to cook. And she was surprised, you know, like, How did you learn how to make beans and some other chicken? And it's like I was sitting right there hovering over the stove. And so I think she was very happy that I did learn how to cook. Anyway, she used to cook, her favorite thing was pineapple upside down cake. How many people have had that one? All right, quite a few, quite a few. That is like so old, that cake is about 100 years old from the South.

[04:28]

It's like an old recipe, right? So if you're making it, you are really reaching back, you know, into the past. So I thought she was making it that day, or at least, you know, I was like, oh, God, I can tell we're going to have that cake, pineapple upside down cake. And I could hear her mixing, mixing, mixing in the kitchen. You know, and I was like, I'm watching TV. I'm getting all anxious and ready for this cake. And usually when she made cake, she would leave some of the batter in the bowl for me, just me. Now, my sister, just me. I don't know if they even knew about it still to this day. So, sis, sorry. But I would be waiting to... you know, lick the bowl or, you know, scrape it up. And I knew sometimes she would leave a little extra because it was just a little bit too much left. But I was happy with that and scrape it up and I would eat it and I would be happy.

[05:28]

So I'm waiting for that moment for her to call me in and come get, you know, the rest of the batter. So time's going by. I don't hear any, like, nothing happening in the kitchen. And she hasn't called me in. I'm like, what is going on? This is like... Something's happened. And so I waited and waited, and I said, let me go in the kitchen and find out what's going on. So I went. I went into the kitchen. No mom. She's not even in there. And there's the bowl sitting there. I said, I wonder why she didn't call me, you know, to come get my treat. And so I said, oh, never mind. I'll get it myself. And so I got a spoon, and I got the bowl. And I scraped it really good. I got a big, you know, like, because there was a lot left as usual. Stuffed it in my mouth. And it's like, this is not cake. Oh, my goodness.

[06:34]

And I, it was cornbread. Cornbread. Never forget how cornbread tastes without cooking it. You know. I was very disappointed. Of course, I didn't tell my mother I had eaten that bowl of cornbread. She made really good cornbread, though, but it was amazing. And a shock. So there have been many, many, many experiences in my life. in which I have partaken, and it turned out to not be so. Many, many times. Do you have any of those experiences? Like, hmm, I guess that wasn't so. I didn't know. I thought this. I thought that. And I thought I knew. I thought I knew. And I think in these days and times that we're living in,

[07:40]

And I'm going to start with the punchline, and that is, we don't know. We really don't know. And what we think we know, it's not always so. It's just not always so. And this became, you know, even though I kept repeating this cake cornbread experience in other ways, even today, in my mind, we'll go into a place and a story and then later find out. I thought I knew. And the worst is if you have acted already upon what you think you know, and it turns out not to be whatsoever anything you know. So one of my favorite books is Not Always So. by Suzuki Roshi. Actually, you know, it was edited by, I think it was Ed, let's see, yep, Edward Brown.

[08:48]

And this is a very good collection of talks by Suzuki Roshi, who was part of, part of, was a visionary of the San Francisco Zen Center. I wasn't here at their time, at that time. I'm old, but I wasn't here then. Anyway, when I first started reading Suzuki Roshi, I didn't understand anything, a word they said. You know, really, I would read it and go, this doesn't make any sense to me. But I kept coming, I kept reading, and I kept sitting. And then eventually, after a few practice periods in Sashin, I began to open the to try to at least see what everyone was excited about, because I wasn't excited about it at all, because guess what? I already knew. I already know everything.

[09:52]

You know, I actually came from a whole other Buddhist tradition that I have been in for 15 years. I already know. I know Buddhism. I know the Dharma. So what are you talking about? I don't know. It's just true. So I began to read, kept reading and kept sitting. So I think that in today's world, there's a lot of knowing, and I want you to hold on to that for a minute, you know, about what you think, you know. And I'm going to read to you this little part that I like. Actually, Suzuki Roshi is quoting Dogen Zenji, who founded Soto Zen. And this is, there's a lot of places in this book That really speaks to, this is a good title for the book. Not always. So as a writer, I'm always looking for good titles. But if you need a good title, call me. So anyway, Suzuki Roshi says, most people think that water is water.

[11:02]

It's the right. is the right understanding that water is water and that is the right understanding and that it should not be a home or a jewel or blood or a fire. Water should be water. But Dogen Zenji says, even though you say water is water, it is not quite right. It is not quite right. Cake is not cake. When we say water is water, we understand things materially from its material place, from its relevant place. So some of the things we're looking at now is from this relative place, from this place of you and me, this and that, what I've studied, what I know. what my ideologies are, what my philosophy is, what my personality is, all these things I know.

[12:07]

My name. I know my name. I know who I am. When we say water is water, we understand things materially. When we say that water is H2O, but under some condition, H2O may be ice or mist. or it may be vapor or a human body. It is only water under some circumstances. So even when I was looking for the cake, it wasn't quite cake anyway, right? Looking for the better wasn't really cake. For some convenience, we may tentatively say that water is water, but we should appreciate water in its true sense. Water is more than just water. Water is more than just water. That's page 95 to 96, bottom of 95. So I thought to talk a little bit about the suffering that has always gone on since the beginning of human beings have come into the planet.

[13:21]

Whichever way it happened first, I don't know. Maybe we flew down from somewhere and made a planet. I don't know. But remember, not always so. So we have a lot of situations in how do we talk about politics? How do we talk about suffering? How do we talk about spiritual? How do we talk about anything in a way that is going to move us in a place that, or not move us, help us to be with where we are? How are we going to be with where we are? And some people would say, oh, no, you know, don't bother with politics, you know. And sometimes I definitely feel that way. And then there's politics still. And there was a question asked while I was at Green Gulch, is why is anybody here talking about what's going on, like directly in the world?

[14:29]

You know, in my mind, they didn't ask me. Someone said someone asked them. And I kept the question for myself. And I said, oh, well, because that's politics. And then I was like, well, that's not a good enough answer. So what are you saying, Zenju? You know, and then I said, well, there's a politics. I like to explore these things. There's a politics that goes unexamined. A politics in which we already think we know. And there's no other side to it. It's just this and it's just that. There could be nothing else. Nothing else possible. Until something else possible shows up. Like the beautiful new Welcome Center. That was not possible probably at one time in the minds of the people who lived here, who began Zen Center. So I said, so an unexamined politics, an unexamined you, an unexamined practice, an unexamined life, is going to keep you in that place of knowing and in the certainty.

[15:51]

Of course, we're driven right now by our suffering. We feel we want to do something. We want to do something about it. What shall I do? What shall I do? Many, many people asking that. And in this place, in this practice where we're sitting, zazen, is what we do. And where we come into long retreats, long sashims, and daylongs, and stillness and silence is what we do. And it's what we do. here at Zen Center. And then other places, they do other things. They follow other philosophies, other ideologies, other paths, all of which are needed, all of which are interrelated to what we're doing, because it comes through us. We are here. Everything that's out there is in here. How many people thought

[16:54]

it would be different when they came here, that it wouldn't be nothing at all that's happening in the world would ever be inside a Zen Center. Ever. And then you come in, it's like, hmm. And it doesn't have to be politics. You could come in and go, oh, no, that person's just like my father. Oh, no, she reminds me of my sister. Didn't have a good time with her. Oh, my mother. Oh, my gosh. Oh, no. Don't think I want to do that much work. I've been working too long. Oh, what's happening here? All kinds of things will come up because you're coming from that place, that place where water is water and only is water of water, rather than this place of allowing something else to be possible. I really believe and I want to call our attention to and invite us into the discovery of these times.

[17:55]

And I know there's pain because I have it. I can feel it. I know there is hatred and I can feel it. I experience it and been experiencing it all my life. I mean, someone even asked me, how is it that you can be, do a talk or be in a place not knowing who's out there? in the space that could don't like you or, you know, and I could, my mind would think, oh yeah, that's possible. How do I do it? How do I do this? I do it because I've examined my own hatred. I have to examine my own hatred. They're mirroring mine. And the first hatred I want to stop is the one that's here. Because I can't help anybody. until I know that. So many, many great teachers have come driven by their suffering, have become great teachers, Dalai Lama, because of the suffering he felt of his people.

[19:05]

Thich Nhat Hanh, the suffering he felt of his people. I was in the Soka Gakkai Nishran tradition for 15 years, and the people who came here, lost their spouses and their families in World War II and they were suffering people and they thought to come here and help people in despair and therefore went to communities of despair and ended up with probably the most diverse tradition of Buddhism in the world because they went to the people who were in despair. I was actually invited to Buddhism at 11 years old in a shopping mall. I didn't know what it was, but I did. It went in there somewhere. But different people are driven by their suffering. And so what are they responding to? They're coming through the not knowing. They don't know what to do. Do you think Thich Nhat Hanh knew what to do? No.

[20:07]

Do you think the Buddha knew what to do? No. And his people, too, were suffering. The Shakyat clan. The Shakyat tribe. And he went out and said, oh, my goodness. And they didn't know what they were doing. I mean, nearly died out there on the quest as to what is happening here. So much suffering. So much illness. So much. People are suffering. And so I imagine the Buddha also examined the hatred within himself. Examine his own fear. What are you afraid of? What are you afraid of, Buddha? What are you afraid of, Zenji? What are you afraid of, people? So that examination could hopefully give you the foundation in which to understand that it's not always so. I think this is a great time now.

[21:09]

It's actually been a great time all my life. Especially now. It seems to me I've been like, you know, I've been a great, great, great social activist. I have marched. I have done so many things that I believed that would work. And as the years, I said, wow, it just seems like, you know, we're going backwards in my mind. That's my not always knowing. It's just an idea, an opinion. And then I was trying to figure out what next, what next. And then I said, there's nothing. Nothing next. And that's really frightening. Is there nothing next? And then people say, well, I have an idea. You have an idea. You have an idea. I have an idea. I have an idea. We all have an idea. But we've had those ideas for centuries on every continent.

[22:11]

And who knows, maybe in another planet we don't know. Not always so, just us. So I think what's being called what I think and what I feel from my own life, from my own examination of being a person that wants to always do something for the suffering of people, I said and said, this time, we have to release all of our habits, all of our ideas, all of our ways, All of the things we think should happen now, and who should do what, and who should do this, and how we can stop this from happening. Because maybe we can't. Maybe we can't. Because something is occurring for all of humanity. For all of humanity. Something is occurring for that. To me, we are... New portals, that's how I want to use that word.

[23:15]

It's kind of a shaky word to use. New portals are opening right now. New portals are opening for us to discover. It's for us to discover something that is always unfolding and always endless. How many here know the Dharma? It's endless. And when Dr. Dogen said, forget the self, study the self, forget the self, meant to stop getting it. Stop trying to get it, the Dharma. Don't get it. That's forgetting it. It didn't mean have amnesia about who you are, what you do, but to be open, to allow new portals, and I've said this for a very long time, If we could just pause for a moment to see what would come in, that's different. Not all of us will pause for the unfolding, to discover the unfolding.

[24:21]

So what do I mean when I say portals? It's a word that you probably wouldn't hear in a Zen talk or a tradition. You might hear that more. Maybe esoteric. You know, not always so. Because right now, I'm talking about portals. What portals is she talking about? It is almost Halloween. By the way, that's my birthday. Halloween. So do I speak from my birthday being on Halloween? I love being Halloween, baby. Maybe. Maybe it's because I was born on Halloween. But the portals I'm talking about is the one you just saw when I first sat down.

[25:25]

I didn't mean to demonstrate it. But the portals I'm talking about is right here. It's our hearts. It's our tenderness. I was named Zenju because that was my work. Still my work. It will be my work until I leave. Total tenderness, complete tenderness, Zenju. That's what Zenju meant. And my teacher gave it to me because she knew that's what I needed. And I said, how in the world? And I'm going to be tender in this craziness, you know, the things I have to deal with, the pain and the suffering and the, you know. And she'd probably just smile, right? Like, God's been named her. Right name, right name, you know. And I didn't use it because it just felt like it was trying to push me into some kind of niceness or something weird, you know.

[26:31]

that I wasn't, you know. Wait a minute. I'm not like that. Finally, a medium found out that I had this name and asked me to use the name, Zenju. And I said, OK, I will. So Earthling was just a name my mother gave me. That name disappeared pretty much. And then I was Zenju. And Zenju didn't have any resume. And I know, you know, she just didn't exist. So I used her anyway. And people, you know, be, you know, who's Zenju? Me too. Who is Zenju? You know, and Earthland just felt like suddenly I wasn't on the planet anymore. Nobody's calling my name. Call my name, please. And there were some people who knew me for forever, like my family, of course. I said, don't even try. Because they were like, ziz, ziz. No, just keep it. No zinches. Just keep it at her.

[27:32]

They call me another nickname, but I'm not telling you because it might start getting out there. I walked with the name, and more and more of my portals opened with that name. And like I said, you got to see some of that. This time is bringing us to it. Can we take the time to allow these portals to open up within us, to allow the feelings and the intensity of what we're living with, let it push us into something that's different, something that's not always so. Not just water is water. Where can we go? Where can we go? And I just truly believe that And that we can go to the places in which Suzuki Roshi was teaching based on Dogen Zenji, based on the Buddha, based on the people who taught the Buddha, the awakened ones who taught the Buddha.

[28:37]

And these teachings keep coming and coming and coming. So can we be there for it in this open way? Or does it feel like if we don't, something's not going to get done. Something's going to slip. Oh, no, we're not letting that off the hook. Stop. Speak. Wait a minute. I used to be that. I call it. I call it. Name it person. I'm going to call it. And it was so tiring. So exhausting. Took so much energy. How can you be compassionate when you have no energy? To be able to meet the places in which people are suffering. And I am grateful. To Buddha, to my teacher, Zen K. Blanche Sharpner, I'm grateful to those who have hold up Zen Center in the way they have. Keep going up and down, riding the waves. Because I wouldn't be sitting here at all.

[29:41]

And being able to me express the original source of awakening, each one of us. are an expression of that original awakening. And so when you come to sit zazen, or you go and do a retreat, you are in that place of expressing the original awakening. It's not from some people, but some people are the holders. And some people are able to transmit it, some people. I want to say a little bit about Buddhism, in a general sense, especially if we know it. How we know Buddhism. Like I said, I thought I knew Buddhism. And the more I didn't know anything, which happens,

[30:49]

When you're on this path, you just keep going out into the meadow. So I took my lay vows, the blue robe, jukai, out into the meadow I went. And then I got ordained. I got out into the meadow again. And then Dharma transmission. And when I got away, I was way out there to me. Dharma transmission was like, woof. There is absolutely nothing out here. What have I done? Oh my gosh. What have you done? Nothing, thank goodness. Thank goodness you have done nothing. So some of the mistakes we made, sometimes the mistakes are okay. There's nothing wrong with mistakes, but I would say maybe some confusion sometimes when we're not practicing as

[31:52]

long or we come in from the outside like I did. So some of the things I've noticed, and this is from my experience as a teacher and talking to many, many, many, many students. I've been Dharma transmitted now for eight years, which is a very short amount of time compared to some of the teachers that are here. So one of the things I notice when I'm talking to some of the students at every Zen Center across the country, is niceness for kindness. Niceness for kindness. Because I know how to be nice. Whatever that is. And I think I know how to be kind. Not always so. Not always so. Because what's kind to you may not be kind to somebody else. Maybe an intrusion. And you're like, oh, that's interesting.

[32:53]

Forgiveness for love. If I forgive you, then you know I love you. Not always so. Compassion for peace. If I am compassionate and my acts are compassionate, there will be peace. Where is your compassion coming from? I know for myself it only can come from my own experience of having compassion for for where I am. Actually, when I am at my worst, I am most compassionate. So when I am at my worst, I must pause and stop and allow that portal to open so that I can experience compassion. And then that way, not that I would transmit it or do anything, take action. It would just transmit by me being a human being next to another human being.

[33:57]

Right now, each one of you are transmitting to the person next to you, to me. You're all transmitting to me. And as a seer, sometimes it's overwhelming. I could be here all day to speak to all the hearts that I see and know and feel. And I intentionally have opened my heart to feel it, and it's overwhelming sometimes. But I'm good with it now. It used to be very frightening. but I can feel you, and I'm here to do that. I continued. After I got Dharma transmission, I did call up and ask to be disprobed. I've been telling people that. Finally, you know, repentance. And because I was afraid of what it meant, and I didn't want people to think I thought I was somebody or to come to me like I think I'm somebody or any of those things. And then I realized, okay, that's your mind. talking to you because after my first jukai that i did with um three of some of my long-term students um i cried through the whole thing trying to will you remain a buddha to keep the precepts until you reach buddhahood you know just crying through the whole thing and then i realized that oh that's why

[35:17]

That's why I have to keep this rope so that I can stand at the gateway, and I've said this many times, at the gateway of liberation has nothing to do with me writing, talking, none of this. It's just that. And I hear it right now today at the gateway for the liberation for all of us and for the entire world and to create this kind of a movement that we're afraid to actually have because it doesn't quite look like it's active enough. but for this kind of movement in which we are transmitting and expressing the original source of awakening in this moment by even just walking in here. Silence for equanimity. That's another one. If I just keep quiet, it'll seem like I'm on both sides. Did you say something? Nope. That person... Interesting silence. Oh, that person has a lot of... Very equanimous.

[36:21]

But have they said anything? We don't know. Not always, though. Stillness for accomplishment. I got it. Ouch. I got it. I got this... I got it. Oh, God, hurry up. I got it. Leaving, leaving, leaving. Not always so. Stillness is not always your accomplishing. Purpose for achievement. I need to know my purpose so I can achieve that purpose. I need to know my purpose. I used to think that. There's no purpose. But there is being right here.

[37:31]

There is being and showing up for whatever there is. The heart, it was out here, now it's here. OK, whoa, [...] too close. Or, oh, my purpose is to go out and, no, maybe not. So these things are important. Whatever you're thinking that you should do right now in this time, day and time, Go on and write it down. I've done a couple of things. You know how some people do vision boards? Well, instead of doing that, you know, write down an oath, an oath for yourself, for your life, maybe.

[38:37]

Sign it. Look and see what are the things you want to do and see what that, what that, uh, is and just let it be there on the piece of paper. Your to-do list, you're a great person to-do list. I'm going to be a great person and this is what I'm going to do. I'm going to write a book. My books, I never intended to write any books, Dharma books. I like poetry. So try to write poetically the other things. What is it? I'm going to be a priest. I'm going to start a movement in my neighborhood. Write these things down. And then see what are you doing right now in this moment that affects, that can affect, that can impact the suffering.

[39:43]

And I was, and I'm going to end on a story for Q&A. Oh, yes, thank you. That would be wonderful. So how much time do I have yet? I forgot to ask you. It's 11. Wrap it up. I was riding in a truck with a friend, a very close friend, and I was in New Mexico, and she was very nervous, and You know, she said, now she's taking me to urgent care, which is kind of one of my favorite places, I guess, these days as I get older. And she's driving, and, you know, she says, you know, they're on my block. They're taking people. They have my niece for immigration. I says, take them, my niece. They're on my block.

[40:44]

And I was in the car, and I could feel my head get tight, like really tight. And my body, you know, my heart started pounding really fast. And I just looked at her, and I said, and I told this story, I think, in another talk. But I did offer myself, and I was surprised. I said, if, you know, we get stopped, I'm going with you. I said, you know I'm going, she looked, she was like, I'm going with you. And that was all I could give her. And that was a big, big revolution for me. A radical movement. And not knowing where I would go, where she would go, or what would happen at all. I just knew that I was willing to show up in that vortex because the portal is open. And because it is, are we, you know, afraid of it?

[41:48]

Are we afraid not to do, not to speak the ways in which we used to speak? When I first came to Zen Center, like I said, I was an activist. I was a Pan-Africanist. And after a while, you know, I would hear some political talk by people. And then I was like, well, what am I doing here? I really know that. I really know that. And then I said, I want to do something. And then after about maybe five years, I said to myself, if you leave here or continue to stay here and you're still talking like you were when you first came in, then I think you can go now. And I offered myself to go, to leave, to actually not do the practice. Because part of me knew, right? I know all about things. But then I said, there must be something. And lo and behold, not that I don't talk about politics, but I do have a complete not always so all the time.

[42:58]

Even when I'm writing, very difficult to write from a new place of being, from a new openness, from a portal that I don't even know. I don't know what's going to come out of me. What I will do all the time. And that's nerve-wracking because I need to know. And then I don't. It's hard. It's difficult. So we're in difficult times and I'm inviting us to be in the portal of tenderness. And to not always so. I know you and I don't. And I love you. ... [...]

[44:12]

The definition of murder is lost in the world. I can't believe in the world of the spirit of men. I can't believe in the world of the spirit of men. I can't believe in [...] the spirit of men.

[44:40]

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