This podcast is offered by the San Francisco Zen Center on the web at www.sfzc.org. Our public programs are made possible by donations from people like you. Good morning. What I was planning on offering during the class was a selection of Dogen's teachings, you know, sort of picking through his teachings and looking for themes and then giving us an opportunity to discuss those themes, to unpack them and find how they are relevant, applicable to the body and mind that we're practicing with here. And while I was luxuriating in my cabin thinking about what to teach.

[01:04]

I was thinking, you know, it's a curious process. They were going to sit around and think about not thinking. Are we fooling ourselves? Or like, how can that be a help and not a hindrance? And I think it's a significant question. And I think in many ways Dogen did his darndest even though he had for himself this great mission to expound upon the teachings received in China in a way that they could be carried forth in written form. And presumably that written form would then inspire people to practice and realize it directly. The first thing I was going to start with was Vendawa.

[02:18]

Dogen came back from China when he was 27, going on 28. Almost as soon as he got back to Japan, he wrote Bendawa. And I think in that regard, it carries Astros Fukanza Zengi, which he also wrote in the same period. They carry what he thought he got out of I'd ask you to treat this like a lecture and not drink tea during it, please. Part of the way thinking reveals non-thinking is that we relate to it with that mind of zazen. The mind of zazen is asking for everything we are.

[03:23]

It's like it's not saying, well, you can stay separate. You know, it's saying like, be in the middle completely. And then water rises in that immersion, illustrates the Dharma, illustrates the path, and actualizes it. You know, this was Dogen's teaching. So our heritage is during class that we... even though we're not sitting cross-legged, we're still trying to bring up that mind. We're still trying to bring up that sense of being. And of course, it's the impulse of our self-preservation, the wonderful mix between self-preservation as we usually think of it, and that sense of self, that constructed sense of ego or me or however you want to phrase it, that our practice is asking us to not be ensnared in, entranced by, confused by.

[04:47]

So Dogenro Bendawa, and then he wrote the Fukanzazengi, and Yakujo Yujinshu, Juju Kaiman. And at the start of each of these texts, he puts forward what you might consider the primary proposition of practice. For us as practitioners, I would say it's a pretty obvious question. What was he getting at? What exactly was he proposing, trying to communicate? And how is that relevant to us? When my daughter was about 12, she... explained to me how Zen Center had deviated from the true path. He said, you're still trying to comply with a structure of practice that was put together hundreds of years ago.

[06:06]

And that very effort in itself is a is not only a constraint but a deviation from the true way. I thought it was an excellent comment. I think she was a little confused that I praised her thinking and said I thought it was very Zen the way she proposed it. to see the constructs, to see are we reifying them or are we engaging them in a dynamic way that reveals something beyond the constructs. So can we take up Dogen's teachings and

[07:15]

hear something, understand something beyond the embedded constructs that he has written. I think this is our challenge. And then there's a challenge for each one of us to... It seems funny to say personalize it, because that seems to reinforce some kind of personal being, but maybe to translate it into an expression, a way of being expressed that allows it to be intimate for us. that in the way you talk to yourself, in the way you communicate to yourself, that this teaching can come forth in that way.

[08:34]

The marvelous thing about practice period is this structure will help us stay in touch with the workings of our being. And we will see what kinds of issues, what kinds of agendas, what kinds of constructs, what streams of thought, what emotional patterns come forth. And they have sometimes explicitly, sometimes you hear yourself speaking to what? Yourself, the other. in some passionate way, and sometimes you just experience a motivation to act a certain way, behave a certain way, to feel a certain way. Living this narrative of being.

[09:37]

How can these teachings become woven into that narrative? as much as those issues that have arisen through the psychological workings of a lifetime. How can we bring forth a request of practice that's as intimate as that? One of the notions of Dogen Zen and I would say of spiritual practice is that the imperative, the request of spiritual practice become more compelling, more persuasive, more authoritative.

[10:47]

than the karmic constructs that arise for us. This is the nature of vow. And Dogen Zen, as I think many spiritual traditions do, asks us to live the vow. And there's a wonderful book, I just realized I've been reading, Shoha Koko Mora's book, which is called Living by Vow. So that's what we're doing in practice period, we're living that vow. And on one hand, here it is.

[11:54]

The construct, albeit our own version of it, of Dogen Zen. With the heritage, the methodology of creating monasticism the way we've created it. In some ways, it's helpful to remember that. I read Suzuki Roshini saying, we've constructed a certain way here at Tassahara. If we moved somewhere else, we construct the way appropriate to that place. The constructs we've made They're our effort, hopefully our dynamic, adaptive effort, to be most appropriate in this environment.

[13:02]

And I would say for each of us to do the same with our own practice. If you track yourself through a practice period, if you track yourself through a day, you see the shifts in your mind. this point your mind's kind of sleepy and foggy and then magically you get out of the zendo and you feel more alive. At each point what is it to practice with this? This is to live by vow. And of course It has wonderful ways within it, that phrase, has wonderful ways within it to trick ourselves. One is that this is here to be practiced with. Two, that there is the capacity to practice with it.

[14:13]

And that... intentional engagement will bring forth, and this was Dogen's, maybe his key teaching, if not one of them, that engagement brings forth both the enactment of the vow and the realization of being the moment. So the practice and the realization come forth together. And as we look at Dogen's teachings, this is one of the primary themes that he kept bringing forth.

[15:20]

I think, what is it to practice with this? This is something I sort of came up in my own practice. And maybe it's not the phrase that works for you. My suggestion would be try it on. Maybe it is. Or maybe to become a life for you, it needs to be translated into a different statement, a different question. But something that helps our practice to become mobile, that helps our practice to become such that it can flow into all the mental states, emotional states, activities of our day.

[16:30]

And as we do that, the vow starts to become potent. It starts to become a potent part of the alchemy of our being. And then the challenge for us is not to see it in opposition to the arising urgencies of our psychological being, however that might come forth, or our physical being, or intellectual being. whoever we may come forth. Can this vow be such that it doesn't take an oppositional role? And this is a very important point.

[17:40]

Because if it takes an oppositional role, then... it's a little bit like we're trying to suppress, overcome the life force of our being. And we can see this in Zazen. When your Zazen, in all its sincerity and diligence, is to somehow overcome, suppress your being, it becomes this exacting and exhausting activity. And at the end of it you feel like, well, I didn't quite manage it. So in Bendawa, Dogen starts, as he does in Fukanzazengi, and we look at them right now, by trying to create

[18:47]

perspective of practice, a definition of practice that helps bring forth right effort. It's like saying right understanding gives birth to right effort. So up in the library I think we have three or four translations. We have Shuaka Omura's. There's a later edition of this. It's called Wholehearted Way. It has a wide cover. There is Kaz Tanahashi's two-volume Shobha Genzo. There is Nishijima's four volumes, and I think there's one more.

[19:53]

Sometimes it's helpful to read the different translations so that you're not getting hung up on the translator's way of turning it into English. Sometimes you can triangulate between the translations and see, oh, sounds like they were all trying to say this and each did it in their own way. This, the Bendawa translates by Shohakam's translation, talk on wholehearted practice of the way. And in a way, it's... A little bit like his way-seeking mind talk. After he expounds what seems to be the crux of practice, then he starts to talk about his own practice.

[21:05]

He started off in Tendai Buddhism, which emphasizes, among other things, thorough scholarship. in Buddhist doctrine and teachings, and then he practiced Rinzai Buddhism, and then he went to China and practiced with a Soto teacher. Then he came back to Japan, he went back to the Rinzai temple, stayed there for about three years, and then There's a little uncertainty as to whether he left or was asked to leave. And that's when he wrote Bendua. He was 30 years old. He'd done all that practice. He'd been acknowledged and Dharma transmitted in Japan at 27 with Ruijin.

[22:08]

He'd come back. The teacher had died in the Rinzai Monastery and after three years found himself drifting. Not sure where he was going to practice, how he was going to practice, but feeling compelled. All Buddha took tagatas together. have been simply transmitting wondrous dharma and actualizing Anyuttara Samyaksambodhi for which there is an unsurpassable, unfabricated, wondrous method. This wondrous dharma, which has been transmitted only from Buddha to Buddha without deviation, has as its criterion GGU Zammai. So that was clear, wasn't it? If you have a certain kind of mind and you take it and then read all the footnotes, it's a little bit like a treasure hunt.

[23:30]

Each phrase, each word gets unpacked. So something's transmitted. In the heritage of Zen, literally, there's a mind-to-mind transmission, or sometimes it's called that. There is a one mind, transmitter and transmittee are of one mind. And then there's also the notion that the inherent state of being is Bodhi, is awareness, and that through the constructs that develop in our human psyche, the delusions, the obscurations, the agitations that arise cover over

[25:00]

create a disconnect between that innate being. And when there is awareness, it literally realizes innate awareness. Not as a separate thing, but as an intrinsic thing. as an intrinsic state. I thought it was a wonderful phrase when Soviet Rinpoche came up with it. He said, be aware you're aware when you're aware. Be aware you're aware when you're aware. Can the moment of experiencing that's

[26:02]

with which there's awareness of can it be allowed to register? Can it transmit the Dharma of awareness? Just the same way it could be transmitted from another person. Can it also be the process within our being? That make any sense at all? Apparently not. Thank you. One person got it. Awareness is an innate capacity.

[27:08]

We don't need to speak Japanese, be able to sit in full lotus, wear fancy robes. It's an innate capacity. reveals something in its being experienced. And when that experience is held in awareness, something is transmitted. It's not the convention of a particular spiritual tradition. It's not a certain skill set.

[28:12]

It's not even a particular mindset. It's something more universal than all that. And Dogen's teaching was Being present in the moment, this transmission happens. And as you know, he says in other places, and it's beyond mental constructs. being present in the moment in a wholehearted way, being present in the moment in a way that is not subject to the narrative of the constructed or conditioned self.

[29:30]

As long as it's subject to the constructs of the conditioned self, the transmission is something other than this unsurpassable realization that all the Buddhas and ancestors transmitted. And that as each of us engages in this way, this realization becomes common knowledge, or common before knowledge, or beyond knowledge. And this is the togetherness. All Buddha Tathagatas together. This is an interplay of being.

[30:39]

All Buddha and Tathagathas together have been simply, simply transmitting wondrous Dharma. The word wondrous here is sometimes translated as mysterious because it's not conceptual. It's beyond concepts. So, in awareness, to use another of Dogon's images, the moment comes forth as it is, rather than the construct our mind creates about it coming forth. The moment comes forth beyond thought.

[31:53]

That's what makes it mysterious. Because how do we know the world? By how we think about it, how we conceptualize it. So not knowing, not knowing is most intimate. So this is translated here as wondrous, mysterious, before thought. All Buddha, Tathagatas together have been simply transmitting wondrous Dharma and actualizing it. Anyatara Samyak Sambodhi. And Shuhaku translated that as incomparable awareness. Sambodhi is often, I would say, usually translated as complete awakening.

[33:01]

For which... There is an unsurpassable, unfabricated, wondrous method. The process of realization, the process of waking up, is not something you construct out of your... conditioned to being. It's something you give over to. It's like giving over to the vibrant energy of the moment which then sparkles with awareness. And even though it's fully sparkling in its vibrant energy, It's not because your self, your constructed self, created it.

[34:16]

And the challenge for us in refining our effort in Zazen is how can our effort in Zazen be in accord with that rather than a constructed effort? And this, even though it might seem devious or based on thought, to attend to the effort we're making. As I was saying when I gave a talk the other night, we can take the technique, And we can make it an end in itself. And not to beat ourselves up. Usually this is an expression of our deep sincerity and diligence.

[35:22]

We're making this effort. And well, why do we make an effort? To have a result. We construct a paradigm. Effort, desired result. And then unfortunately, or maybe fortunately, we usually fail to get to the desired result. Because the universe is ungraspable with human consciousness. Because it's ever-changing. And it can't be contained in a singularity. So to stay aware within Zazen of how you're relating to your effort.

[36:25]

Is it in a way that opens up to this interplay of being? a little bit like getting out of your own way and letting something manifest? Or has it been taken over by the karmic strategies with which we live our life? Has Zazin become a way in which you're proving to yourself you're a good person. If I can follow my breath, that means I'm doing it right, and that means I'm succeeding, and that means whatever else you want to, meaning you give it.

[37:32]

Can we keep in mind this profound request of practice? that if any and all of that come up, that we see that too. That that then becomes instructive on how to practice. And also that when we see, when we declare our Zazen a failure, that we see that construct too. I have a friend, and I think she's been sitting as long as Leslie and I have, 40 years, and she sincerely declares, I can't do zazen as a failure. I'm deficient.

[38:38]

I have failed in that department. And of course, we can turn that on its head and say, that's a wonderful realization that I, that this constructed self, cannot fabricate, manufacture awakening. It goes beyond it. But this point's important, you know, in the intrigues of your practice. How do you sustain a vow and intentionality that's robust, that can survive within all the stuff that's bubbling up?

[39:42]

And as that stimulates your sincerity and dedication and directed effort, how can that not be in the service of some goal that your mind is sometimes consciously and sometimes without quite noticing? In the heritage of Zen, the device not knowing. This is not only the first case in the Blue Cliff Records, this is a significant part of the heritage of Zen, to not know what's supposed to happen.

[40:47]

You make your effort, not because you know what's supposed to happen, but because you're stepping out of the territory, the known territory of the self, into the unknown territory of greater being. We can study in detail whatever the technique is we're practicing. the method that's transmitted from Buddha to Buddha, ancestor to ancestor, is this wondrous method. And it's unsurpassable in that It has no fixed goal.

[41:58]

It has no accomplishment. That's not its nature. Its nature is universal awakening that has no fixed expression. It can be comprehended by human consciousness. In this way, it's unsurpassable. It's unfabricated. It's not a human construct. And this, and we will look at this too, and it's interesting because it comes, you know, he ends this paragraph with Jiji Uzamai, in which we chant every noon. And as we chant it, you'll see there in the middle of it, Dogen Zenji says, and this... Consciousness is unconstructed, unfabricated. This is what comes into being when the constructs are not being energized, are not being grasped.

[43:17]

This wondrous doyma which has been transmitted only from Buddha to Buddha, without deviation, has as its criterion, Jijiyuzamai, which goes by the catchy phrase, self-employing and receiving samadhi. Being aware, you're aware when you're aware. This is like employing the self. The self, aware of the self, sort of. The awareness is not contained within the intrigue of the self-constructs. When we're inside the intrigue of the self-constructs,

[44:24]

It's like we're in a cocoon. Self-employing. We're using the particular that arises within that cocoon of self, that self-constructed reality. That's the subject matter we become aware of. Self-employing. and self-receiving. Aware we're aware. We open to this arising awareness. And it's very interesting. It's not that hard. It's not that hard to be aware you're aware. If you just take one of your senses right now,

[45:28]

and be aware of it. And then notice what awareness of that sense is like. Okay? You all enlightened now? I write a show that Roshi said to me, and I just do that every single moment, 24 hours a day. That was his parting words to me when I was leaving Sashin. Okay. And Samadhi.

[46:31]

You know. Samadhi is not singular, focused, unchanging object of awareness. Samadhi is continuous contact with what is arising in the moment. So in a way, that can include the singular focus, but can also include changing. The object changes, but the awareness stays. Then another object, and awareness, contact and awareness. So there's a continuity of contact. This is samadhi. And this is what's requested of us when we sit sazena. continuity of contact of what's rising. And so Dogen Zenji says, this wondrous Dharma, which has been transmitted only from Buddha to Buddha, without deviation, has as its criterion, has as its criterion, Jijiju Yuzamai.

[47:55]

This is the active ingredient. This is the expression of involvement that initiates it, that actualizes it, and gives rise to this transmission. this transmission that's beyond thought not to say this transmission doesn't have illumination or in its own way authority in our moments of concentration

[48:59]

which we've all had one way or another, coming home, feeling of connection to something we've always known, some sense of wholeness of being. It can arise, the flavor of it can arise in a variety of ways. And each of them can have an authority. This is part of its wondrous aspect.

[50:02]

So Dogen Zenji puts this forth. trying to figure out where to go with all this, maybe to pause for a start. Any comments on all of that? Please. I'm just wanting to make sure I have some sort of a grasp on what you're putting on. It sounds like you're talking about Zazen in terms of one stepping back from constructs into awareness and then taking another step back such that awareness is its own option. Is that right? Yes, and the reason I hesitated is quite literally not to make that a contrivance, that somehow this is what the self is doing, but more of a giving over.

[51:47]

I would say in walk-around consciousness, that can be a very helpful tool. Because in that momentary registering in that way, the mind doesn't need to be so saddled. You can literally, for a moment, as I was trying to illustrate by saying, listen to one of the sense doors and then be aware of that awareness. The mind doesn't have to be so settled on a momentary basis. But when it's not so settled, the experience is kind of contrived. You know what I mean? Now when the mind's more settled, it's more of an organic process.

[52:51]

When the mind's more settled, the experience is sticky. It has an experience and it tends to hang out in that experience. Let that experience be full. Let it register. Rather than get caught up in some contrivance, okay, now I'm going to I've done step one, now I'm going to do step two, you know? And there's a little me in there, you know, running the show. So I would actually say, in walk-around consciousness, that can be a useful thing because it can interrupt the narrative, you know, that you may be carrying around with you. You're doing this, and you've got this little narrative, or big narrative, going along, and then you punctuate and drop into a fuller experience of the moment.

[54:03]

And then that tends to, okay, where was I at? Oh, I was all caught up in whatever. I better get back to it. it's very important. You know the distinction I'm making? Yeah. And then part of the subtlety of Zazen is, okay, so this settled consciousness can be helpful. It can. It makes the object, it makes the experience of the moment It's more accessible. When consciousness is moving fast, it's like boom, you pass through it very quickly. It's hard to stay up with a mind that's going pop, [...] pop.

[55:07]

So we incline towards the settledness but not as an end in itself. This is the refining of the effort. The goal is to be very, very settled. The goal is to, awakening to now, And in the process of that, letting go of what obstructs it. And as we do that, the mind settles. This is the nature of it. You were talking about something being transmitted. Is there something more individual or is that going through thought?

[56:22]

Subject close to your heart right now, huh? I was trying to talk about it in how I think Dogen is trying to talk about it in Bendawa you know this fundamental point of awareness in practice and the illumination it creates how that can come about from an interpersonal endeavor and then I was saying And let's not forget the intrapersonal. And holding that teaching of Bodhi mind isn't confined within the construct of a self.

[57:34]

That's an arbitrary... construction. The interpersonal and the intrapersonal are not distinct, completely distinct. Either way, it's opening to being beyond the confines of any construct. So maybe that was a long-winded way of agreeing with what you said. Yeah. Well, I wasn't actually saying unconstructed effort.

[58:37]

I mean, the nature of effort until... I would say until we're quite settled, there's either the constructed effort of our karmic consciousness constructing the urgencies of its karmic makeup. They're generating a consequence. of our past actions or the constructed effort of our vow to practice. Okay, I will do this. As the mind becomes settled, both of those start to be shed. And it's that as they're shed

[59:42]

And what's happening is simply allowed to be itself. That's the unconstructed part. It's like to be aware doesn't say construct something to be aware of. It says be aware of what is. Don't construct it, just be aware of it. In that moment of awareness, the object is unconstructed. Sometimes actually Zazen is called objectless. In other words, there's no object apprehended. So in that way. So the effort is indeed constructed. And the idea, the challenge, the koan of Zazen is how do you get from constructed effort to

[60:46]

unconstructed awareness. What I'm saying is by staying aware of how you're relating to the effort. We get all sorts of cues all the time. You're following your breath and then you notice you're making your body breathe. You're following your breath and you notice you're tightening your throat as you're doing it. You're tightening your abdomen, your shoulders, your jaw. We keep getting clues about what's being constructed and added. It's our effort that starts to illuminate them.

[61:49]

And then can we let them go? Okay? Is it useful or even possible to notice the constructs and back up to where there is one? back up to where they began. What were you before your parents were born? There is a way consciousness can sink into the

[62:51]

the narrative of our psyche and sink below awareness. Sometimes when we meet a moment, and you can tell me if I'm answering your question, when we meet a moment, we become aware, sometimes that revisiting can help lift that up. What happened previous to that moment of awareness? Like sometimes, oh, I was thinking about this. So come in. It sort of helps lift the mind back up into consciousness. Was that what you were talking about or were you asking something else? Well, that's a great response. I wouldn't have known I was asking for that. So we're in Zazen, and we've gone off, and once we realize that, where am I right now in that chain of thought, and where did it come from, and what origin, how did I get there, without getting too involved in thinking?

[64:19]

Well, can you see how the questions you asked seem to imply you would think about it. And what I was trying to say before is if we can notice and invite that up into consciousness, there's an interesting way it can shift our state of mind. As we invite it up into consciousness, then that part of the narrative Especially when we're doing a longer sitting, when we're doing a longer sitting and we sink into the narrative in an unattended way, we sink into the frame of mind, the physiology of that aspect of who we are.

[65:21]

And as we invite it up, sometimes it will also invite the body back up into... It will help shed. Like if you notice, oh, I've been reliving that argument I had. And then you invite it up into suchness. It's just the phenomena of now. And it can disconnect from how it had... become entangled with the physiology of struggling, however that argument had symbolized some aspect of your psyche or psychology. As we lift it up, it can also help stimulate that kind of release too. We'll see.

[66:29]

I used the phrase, be aware you're aware when you're aware. You remember that part? Yeah. And I likened it to receiving the self. What is the awareness? The awareness is the arising of the moment. It's what comes into being. And then receiving that, being aware of that. So self-receiving, receiving the awareness, being aware of the awareness. And you might become aware of a feeling. You know, I'd say, well, try a sense store, because it's more or less simple. But it can also be you become aware of a feeling.

[67:45]

Oh, and you're aware of the feeling, and then it's like the awareness expands. There's awareness of the awareness. Subjectively, it feels like, okay, there's that within this. It's an interesting thing. You can be aware of the stream, aware of the sign of the stream. And it can have a singularity. And then when you're aware of the awareness, it's like the sign of the stream becomes part of the panorama of what's happening.

[68:51]

And so we employ it. we use it we receive it and we employ it because guess what we've got this stuff going on for us all the time there's always something to be aware of and in contrast to being immersed in it and as we're immersed in it often It's like we're entranced. And part of the development of our psychological makeup is that we will have a response to what's created. And we will set up defenses.

[69:55]

We will blank out. we will reject, we will suppress. And as we do that, instead of having continuous contact, we have intermittent contact. And then we sit down to do zazen and we say, okay, now I'm going to have continuous contact. And then we see what happens. So it's like saying, Rather than the self being the enemy, the self can just be the subject matter of awareness. You can use it. Notice it, receive it, and use it. And in the using, be used up. So how about that?

[70:58]

Thanks, Joe. You know, when we got our best game going, it just flows. Like, where's the problem? in other states of being feels like an impossibility. It's like those issues have got you in an iron grip. And then what is iron grip? What does iron grip feel like? Because this isn't unsurpassable method of practice.

[72:04]

Nothing is outside of the process of practice. And then we switch to experiencing iron grip. We experience that mind that's anything but fluid. We give over to that. It's easy to say that in words. In the process of practice, almost all of us need it the way we want it. Okay, when my mind's nice and calm and when my whatever's like this, then I will experience, I will be aware of what I'm aware of. Then I will let go into the moment.

[73:06]

And it's not like we're constructing that prerequisite. It's ingrained in our sense of self-preservation. So almost all of us need those conducive conditions. And then we taste something, we experience something. And it starts to become alluring. And we start to learn how to widen our repertoire of acceptable experiences. What would it be like if I opened up to a painful negative emotion? As much as I am inclined to a settled, concentrated state of being. What if I let... this being be soft and open and receiving to that.

[74:13]

The problem with Zen students is they love heaven and they hate hell. They love those concentrated serene moments. But those agitated, murky, difficult ones they want to stay as far away from them as possible and he in his charming way would say jump into hell so refining our effort delicate balance is we are working with a human organism called me and we study the self we study the self from the place of vow okay this this self

[75:33]

can be received, the self can be employed. The self can be the conduit of samadhi. So that's the flavor of this phrase. And Dovan comes to the point where he says, and the criterion of this wonderful practice that all the Buddhas and all the ancestors engage in is this, self-receiving and employing samadhi. And since we all have a self, by wonderful coincidence, we are fully qualified. And if you don't have a self, well then, guess what? You don't have to worry about any of this. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

[76:42]

The breath has a singularity and something wider. Well, one of the reasons that the breath is so frequently mentioned in the practice of Zazen and other forms of meditation is because it's so versatile in its application. You can do vigorous breathing and there it's about attention and energy. You can do releasing breathing. And there it's about undoing the knots, the contractions of both body and mind.

[77:58]

You can do following the breath. And there it's about continuous contact. The breath goes through its phases and the mind stays in contact. Inhale. pause, exhale, pause. You can do breath at the nostrils where it's primarily sensation here. You can do breath in the tendon. You can do breath flowing through the body. So the breath has a wide scope to how it can be engaged. So within that How would you phrase your question? Which one to do? See, this is a great question.

[79:07]

draws us closest to our practice than as soon as lunch or why did that person say that thing the way to me the way they said it you know how to relate to the breath and you explore it you bring it to your teacher you explore it for them you let the question discover. And in the scope of even the heritage of Zen, you know, I have heard all sorts of answers from Shohaka Gamora saying, someone saying to him, and how do you work with the breath? And he said, No deliberate engagement whatsoever.

[80:24]

I've heard Harada Shota Roshi say, first, at least 18 months of practice, nothing but this breathing technique I'm pointing out to right now. Do it day and night. And don't worry a darn thing about any other teaching, whatever. Just this breathwork. And it was very strenuous and deliberate. But it's a great question. And really this If you could say Dogen had three points. One was practice realization simultaneous.

[81:28]

You're not doing this so at a later date some good thing happens. Practice realization simultaneous. And then this other notion that fully engaging the moment is intertwined with way-seeking mind. Well, how do you relate to the breath? How do you relate to the body? What is effortless effort? How do you practice being aware when you're aware without just sort of tying yourself up in some mind game?

[82:37]

That when that mind arises, when that kind of inquiry arises, it's like saying, what's the sign of the creek? You start to hear the creek. It's like when you say, what is it to practice? How to practice starts to become evident. This was the other way-seeking mind, practice realization, Jijusamai. And you see, From this foundation he branches out into all sorts of things. And sometimes at the start of the fascicle he will reiterate it and then he'll... And the current application is this. Now let's talk about the Heart Sutra.

[83:43]

Let's talk about the lineage of Buddhas and ancestors. Let's talk about causality. Let's talk about the nature of time. They're all arising. They're all illuminated by this core practice. Any last question before we stop talking about it and start doing it? Or is that enough? Or too much? Oh, sorry. We're influenced by our thinking.

[84:44]

our thinking and the teachings of the Dharma can help refine our understanding, can help guide our effort. So something can be communicated. And then, of course, hopefully we get that there is the challenge to taking it beyond the idea. Hopefully we get the understanding and it's about actualizing this. Just having the idea is just having the idea. I mean, it is notable that Dogen Dogen's sense of purpose, his sense of mission on arriving back in Japan was to write all these essays on practice.

[86:00]

In a way, it was his life's work. Even before he decided, I'm going to go and set up a monastery to train practitioners, he decided, I'm going to put this in writing. so people can read it and think about it. Thank you for listening to this podcast offered by the San Francisco Zen Center. Our Dharma talks are offered free of charge, and this is made possible by the donations we receive. Your financial support helps us to continue to offer the Dharma. For more information, visit SSCC.org and click Giving.

[86:44]

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