Good evening. I'm Fu Schrader, and I am from, currently from Green Gulch Farm, formerly from Tassajara, many years ago. And I'm very happy to introduce Larry Yang, who really kindly agreed to come and co-teach this workshop that we've just been holding this weekend here. Larry's a, are you a Vipassana teacher? Larry's a Vipassana teacher, among many other talents. And we were talking about exactly how to introduce you to what we've been doing this weekend and to each other. And one of the especially wonderful things for me in doing this workshop is actually partnering with Larry and having, you know, my little Zen box get kind of broken open a little bit.

[01:14]

And in fact, I overheard one of the participants in the workshop say, it looks like they went out of the Zen box to get you here, Larry. And that makes me the Zen box, I think. And I said, you put two boxes together and you enlarge the field. That's right. And I feel as though my role in participating with Larry and also doing the work of creating diversity workshops. Do you all know the workshop we're doing? It's kind of the Rainbow family, gay and lesbian. transsexual, bigender, you know, the list. Anyway, whatever form of sexuality you have, you're certainly welcome to feel yourselves included in our workshop. And even if you don't have any sexuality, you're included. So our hope is that this is a very inclusive workshop and that part of that was to

[02:24]

invite all of you to come and meet us and hear a little bit about what we've been doing and why we are doing this. So my job right now is to introduce a little bit of the history in having kind of subgroups meeting. And in the early days at Zen Center, there was controversy about having like a women's meeting, a women's sitting, or a men's sitting. So why do you have to have separate sittings for different people, different groups? And we'd have to think about it and talk about it and come up with reasons that we thought it might be a good thing for women to sit together or for men to sit together and so on. And as the years have gone by, we've, you know, offered more opportunities for groups to, people of color to be together and gay and lesbian community to come together. And this question is still there. Why do you need to have special sitting? Isn't sitting sitting? We all go to the Zendo and sit together and

[03:25]

How does that issue seem to be important? So I think one of the reasons it was important is as Zen Centers evolved and developed self-awareness of itself as a community, and we look around at who's in the room, we have a lot more people from the same background that we see over and over again, skin color, class background, and so on, ethnic background. So there's a big majority that has persisted at Zen Center. And one of the problems with majorities is they don't often notice what's missing. And I think, like I live in Marin County, You know, if you walk around Marin County, it looks very lovely. What's missing? Until you go to 8th Street.

[04:27]

You know, or downtown San Francisco, and it's like, wow, where'd all these different kind of people come from? Because there sure aren't in Mill Valley. And so I think it's important for us to see what's missing. You know, who's missing? Who's not here? And I think it's taken us a while to appreciate... that maybe we have, and Larry didn't like me using the word problem, but maybe we have a problem. And as I heard and learned and believe from diversity training I've done, the problem is not for the people of the minority cultures, the problem is for the people of the majority culture. It's our problem to recognize how we might be creating an environment that is not inclusive or welcoming. And what is it? Why? So over the years, we've heard enough times from people of color, I've heard from gay students in this community that they feel like they've been asked to recloset themselves. That's pretty powerful.

[05:31]

You know, they didn't feel like, you know, since they left home, that they've had as strong a demand on them to not come out as they have felt, in our case, at Gringold's Farm. Maybe that's not true at Tassajara. Maybe you feel very... welcome to show your colleagues, whatever they are. So I don't know what's true, but I do know what I hear. And I really care about addressing these problems, as do everyone cares about that. I'm not alone in that, Karen. So we have done a number of retreats for gay and lesbian people. And a couple years ago, the feedback we got was, well, maybe these don't have to happen anymore because it's going so well. We're so accepted by the mainstream now. We are mainstream now. Every sitcom, there's a funny gay neighbor. And I think there was some feeling that it was going well.

[06:36]

And then we had a big setback recently. Is it going well? Is everyone comfortable with each other? Are we welcome here? Is it better if we don't make too much noise or whatever? It's just a question. We don't know the answer. But anyway, so we came and we wonder if we have a problem and we want to look closely at it. And so Larry and I have been talking about this and we thought we would kind of open our conversation with each other which I found extremely useful. And he's a very intelligent man, as you'll soon hear. And I'll... Yes, you are. And so maybe you would jump in with some of that. So first of all, I really appreciate being offered the privilege of being here.

[07:38]

It's my first time here. I have to say it felt like coming to a home and I felt totally welcomed and I so appreciate all the hospitality and I know that because I'm coming into a different set of norms and customs there was so much kindness that was offered to me in terms of my sort of different requests. So I really appreciate being here and deepening my friendship with the greater than community, which I feel that I already have. I think one of the reasons we did this retreat for the queer community at this particular time and also with the particular focus on celebration and joy is that regardless of whether cultural issues are paramount in your life of any nature, we all are beings that have the 10,000 joys and the 10,000 sorrows.

[08:55]

That is the definition of of a life in this plane. And the queer communities have been buffeted back and forth between these joys and sorrows. And the political football over the last year is just one example. And so we thought that we would focus, because it's been so difficult for the LGBT communities, to focus on the joy, to rejuvenate the communities so that we know that whether it's the struggle around Prop 8 or Don't Ask, Don't Tell, or getting recognition from the new administration, we know that this is work. We know that personal transformation work takes a long time, and we know that social transformation takes much longer than we ever would like.

[09:58]

So we're in it for the long haul. And this is part of our way of sustaining ourselves. And so I'm really honored that Tassajara would host such an event. Because it's like the practice of compassion and metta. It's like this stone that drops into a pool and ripples. And it goes beyond the participant's of the program. It touches the lives of so many people around us. So I think all of the participants would say that there's a lot of gratitude in this retreat, that it's a gift to be here. And I know that the as Fu was indicating, there is the question, and I think it's a very legitimate ongoing question to examine, because conditions change, around these culturally specific retreats, whether they're for the LGBT queer communities, whether they're for communities of color, whether

[11:23]

For example, they're for the recovering community or the women's community. Doesn't that promote more separation than connection? The experience of the universality that we all know is part of the teachings. And really, I think the key is to look at the intention of these retreats. Because the intention of these retreats is actually not to create the separation. But we know that each of us requires a certain level of safety to heal the injuries and the wounds that we've sustained in this lifetime, the 10,000 sorrows. So one of the metaphors that I use that I'm not sure is quite, I was just, we were talking about it earlier this afternoon, it may not be quite as parallel with the Zen Center community, but it's certainly parallel with the Spirit Rock Theravadan community that I'm most familiar with, is when our Western teachers went to Asia in the 50s and the 60s and had these great opening experiences.

[12:50]

They didn't actually come back to North America and teach in the existing Asian temples. They actually created their own. Why? And I would venture to extrapolate that they didn't necessarily see themselves reflected in those Asian temples. They didn't necessarily see their life stories being used as examples in which the teachings could get channeled. They didn't necessarily see the things that were culturally familiar in those temples, so they created environments in which they could feel safe, feel comfortable, and really, I mean, we know that one of the key aspects of spiritual practice is being able to relax, to relax into the question of who are we.

[14:02]

Because when we're defended, it's very difficult to explore that question. So these, this tendency that the Western teachers came back from their very awakening experiences is exactly the need that these other culturally identified groups are seeking. The sense of safety, the sense of being seen, the sense of seeing role models in the teaching teams or in in the Dharma talks that reflect those life experiences. And so even in the experience of our differences, cross-culturally, cross-orientation, cross-gender, we still experience them in very similar ways. And that's where the universality really comes to a profound place for me, is that even in difference,

[15:13]

we experience things very similarly. And so these culturally specific retreats are such brilliant doors for people to taste the teachings. And it opens to that fundamental question of who are we. And so I can answer that question of, yeah, I'm a gay man, I'm Chinese, I'm a social worker, I'm all those things, and who am I beyond all that I think I am? This is what the practice invites us into. And so the invitation to those who walk through that door of the culturally identified, those culturally specific retreats, is to be aware of the door you're walking through. and not to be attached to the door. Because clearly attachment is the Second Noble Truth and will cause suffering no matter what it is.

[16:21]

So you walk through that door and you also let it go. And that's the intention of these retreats, is really to as a gate to see where it is that we can touch that place of commonality for all of us. While you were saying that, I was reflecting on how much of the time during my own early practice life, I didn't like myself. I mean, that was before I started to practice, that kicked in. I actually believed that practice was a way out, that I could get rid of the self I didn't like and have this other identity, some Zen thing. And I really wanted to neutralize the disturbance that seemed to be uncontrollable.

[17:35]

And so that impulse to kill yourself or to get rid of yourself, at least for me, was very strong. And I think the wisdom of the psychotherapeutic help that we've gotten in these years since the beginnings of certainly my own practice and the more influence of friends who are in the psychotherapeutic world and well-trained in those studies is that it's quite the contrary. You need a very strong self. You know, you need to love this. for all of its quirkiness and really come to appreciate its characteristics and its preferences and so on. And then it's not so risky or it's not a matter of a kind of nihilistic abolishing, but it's really like, oh, this is rather precious, this is rather precious, you know, this one. And from that place is where a healthy child goes forth and then meets the world.

[18:38]

and begins to get an appropriate sense of themselves, you know, not so inflated. So, you know, it's really, I think, important for us to see ourselves reflected in our like-minded communities, to see ourselves and to be ourselves strongly and to love that. Because our celebration has really been, and I think we've all experienced a tremendous amount of affection for each other as we've gotten to know each other, even in a short time. And we're wildly different. I mean, for a group of people who are supposed to have something in common. Snowflakes. Everyone is so unique and special and amazing. And we had the privilege of seeing that through some of the exercises that we did together. So, you know, and like Larry was saying, I feel like that's the ground for practice is that, you know, from there you can leap into the, you know, Well, what am I really?

[19:39]

What is it that I... What else am I? What else am I that's inviting the sound of the water, the stars in the night and so on? What's this bigger self that the Buddha said, you know, that the entire universe in the ten directions is the true human body? That's that self that we're truly here to meet. and to know, but not from an unhealthy fear or self-hatred. So I like celebrating. I'll go to any group that wants to celebrate how they are, who they are, and their place in the world. And then from there, begin to sit in silence and, you know, non-difference. to find that quiet place that we all share.

[20:42]

It's intensely intimate, just sitting in silence. That's all of you are doing right now. I'm kind of stunned by you. I felt nervous walking in here, just sitting here quietly. You're remarkable. So we want to open it up for any comments or questions as well. But before we do that, I have one more. I want to offer, and that is, number one, I really want to acknowledge and honor the work in multiculturalism that the Zen Center and the Tosahara community has been doing over the last couple of years. I haven't been directly involved, but I know of it, and I really appreciate the intentions and the energies behind it continuing, because I know that it's really difficult work. It's, you know, it's the stones in the millstone, you know, grinding against each other. And it's actually what creates community.

[21:44]

And to also look at as large a picture as we can. Because I have heard in, you know, various sort of Dharma circles that, you know, it's such a great thing that the Dharma is coming into North America from so many different streams, different lineages, and for the first time they're all together in one place. And from my perspective, that's not true. This is not the first time the Dharma has converged on a physical location in its complexities, in multi-lineages, and being filtered into new cultures. This has happened over and over and over again. It happened as soon as the Dharma began to transmigrate out of Bihar in northeastern India, into Central Asia, into China, into Tibet,

[22:57]

into Japan, into Southeast Asia. So when the colonial powers went to those locations in whatever they did in the 1600s, 1700s, and began studying the spiritual practices of these different cultures, they thought they were encountering completely different religions. And it took them decades to realize that it was one practice. And it's because when the Dharma moves into a culture, it changes that culture and is also changed by it. And this is what we're experiencing. And so, how can we learn from how the Dharma has moved into cultures over and over again, and how can we apply it in our own situation? It's really quite a brilliant and profound responsibility of how to continue whatever lineage we are a part of, how to allow it to disseminate with as much ease as possible

[24:20]

into as many cultures, into as many streams as possible. And it's such an opportunity that I feel that your communities have already done so much work in. And so these words are just really to support that continuing. So this might be a good time for you all to bring up questions or... Comments of your honor? I was intrigued by what you said about celebrating yourself and strengthening yourself. Is this related to the scientific building laws that to study the self is to forget the self?

[25:21]

Or are you talking about something else? Well, I think we could say that's a good use of that teaching. I mean, I like that connection. I wasn't thinking of that in particular. But I do think that studying the self is actually turning your attention on, What am I? Who am I? This primary question, you know. What are my characteristics? Certainly in the traditional teachings you do that very intimately in meditation practice. You study, you know, sound and visual and smell, all of the senses, your thoughts. You break it down, break it down into all its component parts. To see there's no singularity there. There's no self like I. We won't find that singularity. So that's kind of an antidote to thinking there's one thing here that speaks for all of us.

[26:23]

It's kind of a fantasy. But, you know, it's the fantasy that is the doer of deeds and the receiver of karma. So there is something there. It's not just a void with wind passing through. Something's happening interactively and that is myself, and I'm responsible for that and for the consequences of how I take care of that one there. So, you know, I feel like the better we know how we are and our tendencies and our emotional responsiveness and all of that, the better we're able to, you know, come to be that which we wish to be, like harmless, for example. I don't wish to harm others and so on. So our practices are really to help us to navigate. As the Buddha said, you know, these are like we're born with a set of wild horses and they're all heading off in different directions.

[27:28]

So learning how to harness the energy of this being, knowing it well and loving it, caring for it. You groom the horses, you know, make sure they have good brain and water and love. And then they'll run straight. And that's a beautiful thing. That's all. So maybe so. Please. I wonder if you would share something from your retreat, like some piece of concrete the dharma gate of the queer community. I feel like I've learned a lot from the queer community about the dharma gate of non-duality or acceptance. I wonder what you guys talked about today.

[28:29]

Well, Most of our practice was before breakfast, so we did most of our sitting and our walking practice before breakfast. And after the meal in our first session, I mean, it was such a short retreat, we were still doing introductions. And what Fu and I came up with was, how do we introduce ourselves in... Not exactly a non-verbal way, but in a non-conventional way. Usually we say, I'm such and such from such and such, I do such and such. The definitions are these labels that are not always experiences. And so we invited the participants to either bring an object or a poem or a song or a piece of movement that actually embodies a description of their identity or a portion of their identity.

[29:53]

And that way we could actually experience you know, an introduction that's a little bit deeper than sort of the conventional, you know, I practice here, or that's just mainly informational. And I hope that people would agree that by the end of that circle, we were transformed. That it was, that it that there was something that was beyond information that we shared. And from that place of being beyond information, beyond a conceptual thinking of, oh, she's this, or he's like this, there was a sense of connection. Of course, it's ineffable, right? I'm having a little hard time putting words to it. So the invitation at the end of that circle was to be aware of how it physically manifests in the body or the heart.

[31:05]

And is it possible to bring it to every further interaction during the weekend? Is it possible when we meet at dinner? It's not that you're recreating that circle, but you're bringing that energy. You're bringing that intention of being together. in that way, or if you meet in the baths, or if you meet on the tram. So that's, I don't know if that answers your question, but that's a flavor of our activity. Everyone pretty much spoke about the impact, I think almost everyone, that Tassajara itself has on the human being. I think you all know that. Eating the food that's so beautifully cared for and presented, you know, by, as we all know, by us amateur cooks who just do it out of devotion.

[32:13]

And just to be here is, it's transformative. And I think we forget that. But I know when the new people come, and there are a number of people, including Larry, who had never been here before, and I know that it transforms people, just to drive into this valley. So, and we sat together, as you all do, and we haven't done a lot of, you know, literal teaching. planned to. We haven't had as much time as we wanted to. We realized we were trying to include everything and really wore ourselves out. But it's the effort to offer what we have and this place is the primary teaching that we've been confident about.

[33:16]

Please. I just really learned and connected with a lot of things that I had no idea, no preconception, no afterthought or anything. Really enjoyed my time getting to know that experience of experiencing somebody outside the TTM, just being able to relate to them. at the bathroom trail, as you know the person who's reading to me. It really brought a lot to me, and just being here, everything is just a joy. Thank you. Thank you. Soja? I don't know if I was quite formulated, but I was thinking,

[34:18]

I was relating to something I think Boo said about how we all are kind of working to appreciate and be comfortable in the form that we have. I've been thinking a lot about the word fear and fearlessness and that concept with someone. And so I think part of coming into a new situation and feeling open has to do with our being comfortable in our own being who we are. But I guess I wonder if either one of you might say something about what it is that, you know, like myself or community or whatever to be sensitive to in terms of the fears of people coming in and going, oh, what am I walking into? Or what that might be that you think is might be particular if you have a particular group of people needing, or if there's something that might make needing more, have a wider, both manner, that's a bit out to your heart.

[35:38]

And we do get feedback that we've seen, we can't seem closed, so, which makes it a bit scary. I feel that you're inviting us into a really deep question. And so I just really want to acknowledge that in the short term we have, we may not be able to really meet the question where it deserves to be met. It's an ongoing process and challenge to stretch beyond our familiarity. And so that happens as a personal practice, of course, but as a collective, it's also difficult.

[36:49]

mistakes are made, and you learn from them, and you still continue to stretch, because it's that intention of inclusion that's important. And so, on a personal level, for example, even in my own teaching, I've realized that I actually have to teach beyond my life experience. I cannot teach to just what I'm familiar with. I have to actually go into communities that I'm not familiar with, if I'm really to serve them, get to know them, and this is a time-invested process. I listen to how other spiritual leaders language their teachings within those communities, so is there something I can learn to be a more direct conduit for the Dharma.

[37:57]

And at East Bay Meditation Center, which I do most of my work, this is what we've looked at as our mission, that we are trying to stretch beyond what our boundaries are, what our boundaries might be thought of. And it's a learning process. across many different levels. There are obstacles to that, of course, both personal resistance that comes up, and that's all part of our practice. But I really believe that the communities feel our intention, even if we're not successful. felt sensation of the intention that builds trust, plus the impact of the outcome, you know, if the outcome is positive. But I think, you know, this teaching of what is your intention behind your action, whether it is personal or collective, it really has an impact on the audience.

[39:12]

And even if there's still some conflict or tension, there's the ground for a relationship because the intention is there. And you can at least bridge those initial conversations, whereas before the conversations may not have existed. So I hope that's a beginning piece to, you know, but it's, you know, it's a very, it's a great place to explore. A couple more minutes. I think for me the most powerful memories that come up around this question are actually putting myself in the situation of being, you know, definitely the minority person. I was in Richmond one day and I needed to go to the bank and I thought about going to Berkeley. And I thought, no, no, no, you go to the bank here.

[40:16]

And, you know, I was the only white person in this, it was an ATM machine, in this store where I went in. And I haven't been that person very often in my life. And I think the more I've accepted that I need to know that, what is that like? Am I welcome here? And that was my question when I walked in. It's like, you know, everybody looked at me. I thought, I felt like I was standing out like a, you know, thing, a big thing. And I felt very awkward and very unsure of, you know, do I belong here? Am I welcome here? It was such a powerful doubt. And then somebody kind of said, I said, is this the lion? He said, no, no, go ahead. You know, and it was just a wonderful thing. Go ahead, a gesture from someone to use the machine. I've also experienced that in the Navajo land and feeling the pain of, like, my history in relation to Native American people.

[41:24]

I come from that other group that took away your land and your children and did all those things, you know, and the feeling of shame and the feeling of I'm so sorry. So I think the more I've gotten into the roots of my own feeling of being the other, or maybe not welcome. It gives me some basis on which to empathize. How it might be, am I welcome here? So you're very welcoming. I wouldn't worry about you. I like seeing you at the front desk. Maybe one more, and then we should all go to bed, I think. Yes? I just want to underscore some of what's already been said. Would you mind speaking just a little louder?

[42:25]

Sure. In relation to the last question, in terms of creating more opportunities like this, I think it's really important for whatever communities it is. retreats that are coming into Tazahara, other run centers, that we exchange, that the opportunity for those retreats to happen in this world. People will get, you know, maybe what are some of the barriers that keep more people from coming and how we can collectively address those barriers. Because I think it's, you know, I, coming to this retreat, I, you know, I was like, oh, I've been a lesbian for a long time. I'm not, you know, kind of, what's the big deal? But okay, I'll, you know, Larry teaches at East Bay, so I'll go and see if I've never taken a class. And then I got here and I realized, oh, I have some of my own internalized homophobies to leave.

[43:26]

You know, but I had to kind of be in that setting to do that. So even for people that, you know, I'm a lesbian, I'm kind of, you know, just having that, experience than having here um just really valuable and i think to create that opportunity for more people whether it's communities of color or or you know working more economic divides all as you can see over that i think it's a great thing and you know i hope it continues thank you Before we end I just want to thank my co-teacher so much because it's been so rich for us to be and work and get to know each other and this is the first time we've actually taught even though we've been talking for a while and I think it's so beautiful that we are

[44:30]

We are crossing gender. We are crossing culture. We're crossing seniority. We're crossing tradition. And it's very... It's expansive for me to have been working with you. So I so appreciate it. It's so mutual, as you know. As I told you already. Thank you all for being here. Many blessings.

[45:05]

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