This podcast is offered by the San Francisco Zen Center on the web at www.sfzc.org. Our public programs are made possible by donations from people like you. Morning, everybody. You can all hear? Yes? Yeah? Yeah? Good, good. Well, somehow, in a way that none of us will ever be able to figure out, time has passed. Or so we say. Look, here we have arrived at the last day of Sashin of the last practice period.

[01:12]

Now, I realize that some of you will look forward to future practice periods, but in fact, actually for all of us, this is the last practice period. which is almost over. Or maybe not. Maybe this practice period goes on forever. It just keeps repeating itself like a movie. You start over from the beginning. It just keeps repeating itself. Nietzsche had this idea, you know, of eternal recurrence. He assumed, to him it made like, it was obvious that the past continues to exist and it just happens over and over and over again. Which to him was like a terrifying thought. I think the Buddha actually had the same idea only with more benevolence. Anyway, the last day of the last session of the last practice period.

[02:29]

And it may seem to some of you like, yes, this has been going on forever. Gone and on and on, forever and ever. But what does that even mean, forever? Anyway, when I start thinking like this, I start thinking, so why are we doing all this? What is the point of all this very expensive Zen training? Why all these robes and bells and rituals? Why this endless zazen, zazen, zazen, zazen? What were we thinking? What was anyone thinking to create this strange phenomenon?

[03:32]

So I've been asking myself, literally, like, really, why in the world are we doing all this? What was the Buddha thinking? What was he trying to do? It's often said that the Buddha was a physician. He was a healer. And it's often pointed out that the Four Noble Truths take a classical medical approach. You begin with the diagnosis. So what is actually the problem here behind the symptoms? What's the actual problem? What are we really dealing with? All conditioned existence is suffering. All conditioned existence is suffering. This is the disease. Life is the disease from which No one recovers, and in the end you die.

[04:38]

Everybody knows this. I mean, the Buddha did not have to go to all that trouble to point this out. We all know this, but in fact, it is just too much to take in. So we... commonly spend our lives trying to ignore it. We do stuff. We make lots of trouble for ourselves. We follow the dictates of our biological inheritance and our personal karma. We go to the movies. We somehow make do. But astonishingly, really, when you think about it, astonishingly, the Buddha was not satisfied with this. He somehow believed against all odds.

[05:42]

And I think, like, foolishly believed, naively believed, right, that you could solve this problem, that you could cure this disease. Who could believe that you could cure this? But the Buddha apparently... thought that this could be done. He would not accept the fact that this disease is incurable. So, like any good research doc, he said about finding the cause of the illness. And he found that ignorance is the cause. Beginningless ignorance of our true nature and true condition. And not only a cognitive, intellectual ignorance, but an ignorance deeply ingrained in our very perception and thought at the bottom of our very consciousness. And due to this fundamental ignorance, we suffer.

[06:50]

And if only there were a way to undo this cause, to illuminate the darkness of this ignorance and undo its effects on our bodies and minds, we could end our suffering. And this is the third truth, the truth of cessation. Suffering can be ended. It really can. How? By practicing the fourth noble truth. The path. right understanding, right intention, right speech, right conduct, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, right concentration. In other words, by transforming our entire way of life, by turning it completely upside down and inside out, from our thinking, to our attitude, to our intentions, to our speech,

[07:59]

to every detail of our everyday conduct, and by cultivating through meditation practice the power to touch ourselves deeply in doing all this so that the ignorance lodged in the body and perceptions is turned around. And we really do overcome suffering. So that's the point of all this expensive, troublesome stuff that we've been doing. Practice is medicine. Life is the disease. Awakening is healing. The early teachings seem clear and simple enough. Calm the mind. Purify the heart. See the truth. Very clear.

[09:02]

Very simple. But human beings are not simple. We complicate things. We take a good thing too far. As the Indian pundits tried to work out the many implications of the Buddha's very simple teaching, they discovered very complicated stuff. In their great faith, they became too narrow. in their tremendous respect for the Buddha, they sometimes failed to see beyond his words to his actual meaning. We can't blame them for this. Anybody would have done the same thing because they were human. They thought and they communicated through the medium of language. Every one of us can personally attest To this complication that arises within us because of our language, we all now know pretty well that we are all creations of our language, of our stories, of our personal myths, of our identifications, embedded in the middle of all of which is our pain.

[10:31]

no matter what we do. To be human is to be tied up in knots. And if you are unable to shake the persistent feeling that there is something wrong with you, take heart. You are right. There really is something wrong with you. Fundamentally wrong with you. But it's not just you. And it's not your fault. This last fall, I went to Northampton in Massachusetts and visited Ruth at her college, Smith College. We had fun. At least I had fun. I hope you had fun. And there I met Jay Garfield, who's, some of you probably know, he's a great

[11:37]

translator of Madhyamaka texts, and he's a philosopher. I didn't realize he was a general all-around philosopher as well as a Buddhist translator and scholar. So we had quite a good time hanging around with Jay Garfield, and he sent me a paper that he wrote. And this was an amazing paper. I never thought of this before, never heard of this before. I can't remember the paper when I tried to rummage around and find it. I couldn't find it, but it was very, very... He's a logician, so this paper was very thoroughgoing. But more or less, what I got out of it was this. The genius thought. He says that Buddhism in India was trying to say something that the Sanskrit language in the Indian philosophical context made it impossible to say.

[12:43]

So Buddhism for centuries kept struggling to say this thing, but it never could say it. Somehow every time it tried to say it, these like insolvable philosophical, religious, theological problems appeared. And the more they tried to solve these problems, the more twisted up the doctrine became, Buddhism became really elaborate and all but impossible to access. Only when Buddhism went to China, according to Jay, where the basic structure of the language was radically different, much more vague, and poetic, you know, because Chinese is like an uninflected language. Everything in Chinese is suggestive, completely open to paradox, and a language that is more or less incapable of the kind of exact philosophical speculation that had always been the essence of Indian thought.

[13:52]

Only when Buddhism came to China could that thing that Buddhism was trying to express for centuries in India suddenly, easily be expressed. That's what Jay Garfield, who's a smart guy, says. And I believe him. And the result of that was Chan, Zen. And this is exactly what Dogen thought. Dogen said again and again and again, he said, there is no such thing as Zen. Forget about Zen. Forget about all these different schools. I'm not doing Zen, he said. This is just basic Buddha Dharma. He really believed that when he went to China and met Ru Jing, he got from Ru Jing basic, simple Buddhist understanding that had been obscured previously.

[14:56]

And the essence of it was simply, don't get stuck on anything. Cure the illness, but don't overdose on the medicine. And Dogen thought that that was what Zen was. It was a way to cure the illness without overdosing on the medicine. It was a way to touch that one key point that would open up the goodness of the teachings. for us, unlocking all of Buddhism for us. He really sought that. Bringing the teachings alive. Buddhist teachings are great. Buddhism is one of the greatest psychological, philosophical, religious systems ever created by human beings. Everything in it is helpful. wonderful.

[16:00]

But if it's not made lively, if it doesn't come alive, if it's not opened up for us, it becomes like anything else. Helpful, not helpful, it works, it doesn't work. But once these teachings spring to life and become living, breathing practices, open-hearted practices, then they're really, really good. And that's what Dogen really felt our practice was about. And if we try to figure, you imagine like trying to figure this out on your own, right? Imagine like sitting down and thinking, okay, now what's the basic human problem? Now that I figured that out, what's the cure? What's the cause? What's the cure? Okay, now that I figured that out, let me create a procedure for curing this illness. down to the last detail.

[17:03]

Now let me go out and raise the funding to create the institutions that will deliver this care. Suppose we were going to, like, start to do that. We wouldn't even think of it, let alone do it, in a million years. And yet for the last 90 days, we've been living it. and it has been handed to us on a platter from our ancestors of the past. What an unlikely blessing. The touch point, the secret, is simply to wisely accept and see beyond our human complication, which is, of course, impossible.

[18:04]

because we can only ever see what we can see. And yet, we can, we are capable of deeply, deeply appreciating our own seeing and understanding, feeling in our bodies that there is an unlimited seeing behind and pervading our limited seeing. And we can live this. And we can feel it working in our hearts. And this is our practice. All dharmas are empty. All dharmas are impermanent. There is nothing to hold on to. There is no fixed teaching. No one understands it. Doesn't that sound desolate?

[19:11]

Just as we feared in the middle of the night, in our darkest moment, we're completely on our own. There's nothing to hang on to. But no, it doesn't mean that. It doesn't mean that. It means the opposite of that. All dharmas are empty means all dharmas are eternally, fully supportive. All dharmas are empty means everything and everyone is your friend. No fixed teaching means all teachings liberate us. Based on this, There is a way to practice that we can completely rely on by not making it into something that we can possess and rely on.

[20:17]

So explaining all this may be minimally worthwhile. I think it actually helps, even though, like, thinking and ideas are given a bad name in Zen, I always thought that was dumb, you know? Like, the idea that Zen promotes a kind of know-nothing anti-intellectualism seems stupid to me, you know? Yeah, you can go too far with thinking, of course, we know that, but to create the impression that you should be a big dummy in order to practice Zen seems ridiculous. So yeah, it's a good idea to know more or less what you're doing, don't you think? But it's certainly insufficient. That's clear.

[21:18]

But this practice period, we've been doing more than having an idea about all this. We've been having a life. a surprising life. Many of you, I think, have been quite surprised by the life that has appeared in front of you, this practice period. And it has appeared variously for all of us according to our individual karma. And it has all been made possible by this ancient, troublesome, invasive schedule and monastic routine. that we will blessedly soon be temporarily free of. Actually though, the whole world is a monastery.

[22:29]

Maybe you'll kind of realize this. after doing this practice period. The whole world is a monastery and there is always some kind of schedule. The Session admonitions say, I love it when, I will never forget Tanya's voice reading the Session admonitions. I'm going to dream about it, hear it in my dreams, when she says something like, Follow the schedule completely. Harmonize with the schedule. Drop body and mind. So we think, once we get out of here, we can be free of this tyrannical schedule. We can hardly wait. But that's totally an illusion. We are still going to be forced, whether we like it or not, to get up every morning and go to bed every night.

[23:36]

We are still, whether we like it or not, going to have to eat and poop and wash our bodies and maybe go to work, or if we don't have to go to work, do something. Something to fill our days. I think if we could figure out a way to be absolutely completely free of all schedules and all routines and all necessities to do what we do not necessarily feel like doing. If every minute we could just decide to do exactly what we wanted in that moment, we would go completely crackers. We would go crazy. I think our brains would fizzle. We would not know what to do. we would be so full of anxiety and confusion, not knowing what should we do next. That would freak us out.

[24:40]

Life requires a degree of discipline, no matter what you're doing. The thing is, in ordinary life, you preserve the illusion of freedom and autonomy. Because you can go to bed anytime you want. Right? You could get up anytime you want. You don't even have to set your alarm, maybe. And you could fill your life only with the things you love and only with the things you want. You could create the illusion that you are in control of your life, that you can be happy. This illusion is totally destroyed in a monastery. There is no escape from time, from being, from the schedule, or other people. There is no space.

[25:44]

So we are thrown back on our basic situation, that we are alive, that we are persons, that we are surrounded by others and we can never escape them, that we are dying, and that everything we ever have and love will be taken away. These are inescapable facts. In monasteries, it's sort of shoved in our face, but these are the facts wherever we go. In monasteries, all our frustrations and difficulties come from the fact that we don't like these inescapable facts and we would like to forget about them and escape them. And it seems like, in the rest of our lives, we can't escape them. We can create the illusion that we can escape them. But here, we can never escape them.

[26:48]

Like a fish in a puddle, what pleasure is there here? And what are we going to do about this predicament? The 83rd story of the Book of Serenity involves Guishan. And Kathy brought up Guishan yesterday when she told the story of Iron Grindstone Liu. So Guishan is one of the speakers in this story, and the other one is Dawu, who with his Dharma brother Yunyan is the speaker in some of our most favorite Zen stories. I think Cathy mentioned yesterday that Guishan was a disciple of Baijiang, and he lived in Baijiang's place for a couple of decades, where he served mostly as Tenzo.

[27:50]

And the story of his awakening is one of my favorite stories. I think it's so simple and beautiful. At this time, he was serving as the attendant, like the Anja, I guess, for Bajang. And Bajang said, you know, they have these little braziers, what do they call them, hibachis, for keeping warm in the winter. So Bajang said, would you poke around in the hibachi and see if there's a fire still going? And Guishang poked around. He said, the fire's out. Sorry. And Bai Zhang took the poker and he pulled out a coal, a live coal. And he said, what about this? And Guishun was awakened. It's such a beautiful story. When you get past your ideas and your needs,

[28:55]

and your dependence on everything going as you like so you can be peaceful, you find one warm, glowing coal right in the middle of your heart. I think I also, in one of my talks, might have mentioned Guishan as the one who said that after he died, he thought he would be reborn as a water buffalo. Didn't I mention that? Yeah. He said to the monks, when that happens, you'll be able to tell that it's me, because this water buffalo will have emblazoned on its side the Chinese characters Gui Shan. That's how you'll know that it's me reborn as a water buffalo. And then he said to them, so if you say it's a water buffalo, it's wrong.

[30:02]

If you say it's Guishan, also wrong. What is it? So I always tell people that story when they say, do they believe in rebirth and Zen? I always tell them that story. So this morning I was studying the record of Guishan, and I found this wonderful quotation that I will now read for you. The mind of a person of the way is forthright and undevious, with no front or back. It is neither deceitful nor deluded, and at all times it is watchful and straightforward, never covering the eyes, never plugging the ears. Such a mind is realized when emotions do not chase after things.

[31:11]

All the ancient sages have simply said that the practice of not giving rise to evil views or thoughts that by the practice of not giving rise to evil views or thoughts, the difficulties of the corrupted world become like clear autumn waters, pure and unmoving, tranquil and unimpeded. A person of such a mind may be called a person of the way, a person without worldly affairs, So the story I want to bring up today is a dialogue between this Guishan and Dawu. Guishan asks Dawu, where are you coming from?

[32:17]

Dawu said, I've come from tending the sick. Guishan said, how many people were sick? And Dawu said, there were the sick. and the not sick." Guishan said, aren't you the one who's not sick? And Dawu said, being sick and not being sick have nothing to do with it. And then he said, so say something. And Guishan said, even if I could say something, it would have no relation. So, in case you haven't noticed, not only is the whole world actually a monastery, the whole world is actually also a hospital.

[33:27]

I know several of you have been ill. during this practice period, especially toward the end here and in the Sashim. But actually, we're all ill, all the time, with this terminal illness that we call life. Did it ever occur to you, you know, the Buddha goes forth and says, you know, uh, Sickness, old age, and death. I'm going to find a cure for sickness, old age, and death. But if you read this scripture, you know, the Buddha got old. He got sick. And he died. Right? So people at the time might have thought, well, some sage, you know, he says he's curing sickness, old age, and death. And look what happens to him. Probably a lot of people thought, well, the heck with this, I'm going to find another, better teaching.

[34:34]

But other people didn't think like that. They thought, when the Buddha got sick, he was sick, yet not sick. When the Buddha got old, he was old, but not old. And when the Buddha died, he didn't die. He entered parinirvana, beyond birth and death. And I was thinking, you know, this is not so different from other religions like Christianity, right? God, or the Son of God, gets arrested and executed. How could that be? Right? God gets arrested and executed? But no, he didn't actually die, right? He died, but he didn't die. He's eternally alive, or so a serious Christian person will tell you.

[35:47]

So the paradoxes and the weirdnesses that we think of as being characteristic of the Zen school are actually in any religion. And they're in Buddhism from the very beginning. They just sort of like seem to come out more in the Zen literature, but they're there all along, everywhere, because they're there in life. We don't overcome the human predicament. Or, rather, we do overcome the human predicament by fully seeing, fully embracing, transcendentally understanding feeling our way into and embracing the human predicament. That's how we overcome the human predicament. It is not necessary to become superheroes or magicians, all conquering enlightened ones.

[36:49]

Perhaps some of us were hoping for that somehow, oddly, irrationally. But no. That's childish, really. The Buddha was not a superhero. He didn't have a cape. He just had a simple robe. The Buddha was really sick. Not complaining. Not imagining some other state. Not defining himself as sick when he preferred being well. And not defining himself as well when he was actually sick. It's like Cathy's bringing up Zhao Zhao's saying, I don't abide in this clarity. The Buddha was beyond picking and choosing. And he was beyond clarity. He was just sick. He just passed from this life.

[37:53]

He didn't die. He just disappeared without a trace. which means he's always here on each moment. He's here right now as we sit. So in this story, maybe Dawu actually was visiting the sick. Maybe he was like going to the infirmary. Visiting the sick is one of the great spiritual practices. It's beginning to get a little popularity, but I think for a long time it was not very popular spiritual practice. But it's a great spiritual practice, and I recommend it. Really, visiting the sick. If you ever get tired of zazen, just don't do zazen. Just visit the sick. That'll do it. So maybe Dawa was actually practicing that.

[38:59]

Maybe he was visiting the sick. But maybe not. Maybe, like, actually, he just was going around the world in his ordinary life. And when Guishan said, you know, where were you? He said, I was visiting the sick. Because you're always visiting the sick, right? There's nobody else to visit. In fact, you could always answer with truth. You know, what have you been doing? Visiting the sick. It's all I ever do. And you wonder, like, honestly, how could we not be sympathetic to one another when we're all sick, right, in the same way? How can you get mad at anybody or at yourself when you realize what's actually going on here?

[40:01]

We are all terribly sick. We are all going to die in two or three minutes, and all of us share in exactly the same way this terrible fate. So if someone, including yourself, starts to act out and behave badly, there's no mystery in that. You know, we're sick. We're upset about it. We don't like it. We can't get out of it. No wonder we're all so difficult to get along with. Weishan said, how many people were sick? And Dawu said, there are the sick and the not sick. So this is the Buddha, right? The sick and the not sick. And this is us too. We're sick, but also we're not sick. Because this very mind is Buddha. Even when we're sick, we're not sick.

[41:04]

And we're not sick because we're sick, and we're sick because we're not sick. Sometimes people will say, usually when you ask somebody how they are, they say, fine. But sometimes they say, actually, I feel terrible, but it beats the alternative. Right. You're alive. preposterously, unexpectedly alive. What a blessing. And because you're alive, you're sick. When you're dead, you're going to be fine. Life is sickness. But life is also healing, which doctors understand. It's not the medicine that heals. It's the body's essential desire for health that cooperates with the medicine to heal itself.

[42:16]

If the body is finished, thriving, all the medicines in the world won't help. So you're sick because you're not sick, and you're not sick because you're sick. This sounds completely ridiculous when you say it. It sounds like a tricky thing to say, but it is literally and completely true. You are vital because you're alive, but your aliveness is essentially dependent on your aging and dying. If you didn't age and change and die every single moment, you would have no vitality, no living life. Then Guishan, in effect, says to Dawu, well, but don't you at least, the great Dawu, the sage, don't you at least escape this pickle? Don't you abide in clarity? Aren't you awakened?

[43:17]

This is Guishan's great Zen irony. My words are becoming very mysterious as I go on with my profound dharma talk. There's a strange aura to my words. Ah, yes. So when Weishan says that, he's being ironic. He knows better and he knows Dawu knows better. But still, we open our mouths and we speak. Thank you guys. Thank you. And this is when Dawu says, being sick and not being sick has nothing to do with it.

[44:28]

So this is a tremendous point that's difficult to practice. Because we all want to be well, not sick. And we all have a strong preference to be alive and not dead. At least most of us do most of the time. Thank goodness. It would be monstrous for us not to have such preferences, not to care. whether or not we got sick. Not to take care of ourselves is irresponsible and it's dumb. Not to want to live, not to care whether we live or die is an aberration. Living beings naturally always want to thrive and live. But if we feel that way too one-sidedly, In other words, if we feel like dying and getting sick is a terrible fate, our biggest enemy, that means that our own body, our own life is our enemy because our body will get sick and it wants to die and it will die when it's time.

[45:53]

So we have to have a preference to live. but not have a preference to live. We have to prefer not to get sick, yet not prefer not to get sick. This means that we know this is how it is. This is what it means to be a living being, that the body by its nature is vulnerable, that the body perishes. When we know that, when we know that all the beauty and love and well-being we will ever know comes from this fact, then we'll be okay. We'll be okay when we're well, and we'll be okay when we're sick. Maureen Stuart Roshi, Kathy's teacher and Ami's teacher, and my teacher too, famously

[47:01]

and fiercely said when she was dying of liver cancer, I'm not sick. She was very tough. She was like a tough Zen master. I'm not sick, she said. And everybody freaked out. And they said, oh my God, she's in denial. She's in denial. Or they thought, she thinks she's some kind of Zen superhero, that she's going to beat cancer like John Wayne, beat cancer. Whoops, he died, but he beat cancer. So people were shocked when she said, you know, I'm not sick, which she insisted. I'm not sick. And then later she explained. She said, I understand that I have serious cancer. I understand that I will not survive this cancer. I understand that I will die from it fairly soon. But I am not sick. The I that was the real Maureen Stewart. The I that is still alive everywhere you look, in you and in me and in everyone else, is not sick.

[48:11]

Suzuki Roshi, on the other hand, expressed the same thing in just the opposite way. When he was sick and dying of cancer, he said, I am cancer. He didn't have cancer. I am cancer. To hold our deep-seated preferences like that is one of the things we hope we learn from our monastic training. Since there's no hope to escape from the schedule in the totality of the life, the only way to get through this with any degree of happiness is to just accept Each and every thing. Accepting everything that happens, whether we like it or not, as just this. That's the practice.

[49:16]

To be capable, when it is necessary, of not going to pieces, of not going all crabby and resentful when things don't work out, is a major life skill, folks. You better learn that. Because bad stuff is going to happen to you. It's like 100% guaranteed. And you better be ready for it. But, even on an average day in town, when you're not sick, and you're not dying, or otherwise in crisis, to understand this practice point is a beautiful thing. To have preferences, to really enjoy them is best when you have the capacity to simply enjoy whatever comes, even if it's not what you prefer. When you can enjoy whatever comes, then you can really enjoy your preference without that anxiety and grabbiness that you discover is at the basis of our preferences.

[50:33]

And this is a wonderful blessing and a great way to live. When the mind is no longer pushed around by its various positive and negative demands, however justified and excellent they are, but is willing instead to just listen, to receive, to appreciate life in all its forms, then we have what we call wisdom. We are what Guishan calls persons of the way. persons without worldly affairs. We're developing that kind of mind on our cushions. And then it's our job to not leave it on the cushion, but extend it into our everyday lives. The mind becomes more even, more mature, more flexible, less subject to the dizzying ups and downs of afflictive emotion,

[51:36]

In hospice work, we always told the volunteers, this is not about dying, this is about living. When you know how to die, when you can accept loss and frustration of desire as a normal and valuable part of life, you're really ready to live. Again, I think I also mentioned the other day that the odd secret teaching of Zen, which looks like Zen is all about zazen and monasteries, or maybe not that, but maybe having some special Zen, uncanny ability to say quats and stuff like that. Actually, no.

[52:38]

The secret teaching is that it's only about one thing, precepts. The 16 bodhisattva precepts are not only good, solid, polite rules for living and being a nice person. They are that. But they are also, as Greg beautifully taught us the other night, the lifeblood of the Buddhas. You and I have ordinary kind of blood. We want what we want, we don't want what we don't want, so we're going to suffer. We have that kind of blood. But the Buddha's blood is the precepts, which opens the Buddha up to a wider way of life that is about so much more than small desires. The world really is vast and wide, endlessly various and colorful, much more than we can see or imagine.

[53:48]

And when we let go of our smallness, our crabbiness, our uninformed opinions, we can just release ourselves to this wider world, this beautiful life. And that is what we have been trying to do. And I think we have been doing for the last almost 90 days. So I will close my Dharma talk for this session and practice period with a sweet poem of Katagiri Roshi that was found after he passed on. and it was published after his death. And it's a beautiful, very simple description of this life of vow, this life of renunciation that I have been speaking about. The title of the poem, I don't know if it's his title or someone else's title, but it's Peaceful Life. And we chant this in some of our Dharma meetings.

[54:53]

It's such a nice poem. Being told that it is impossible One believes in despair. Is that so? Being told that it is possible, one believes in excitement. That's right. But whichever is chosen, it does not fit one's heart neatly. Being asked, what is unfitting? I don't know what it is. But my heart knows somehow. I feel an irresistible desire to know what a mystery this human is. As to this mystery, clarifying, knowing how to live, knowing how to walk with people, demonstrating and teaching, this is the Buddha.

[55:56]

From my human eyes, I feel it's really impossible to become a Buddha. But this I, regarding what the Buddha does, vows to practice, to aspire, to be resolute, and tells myself, yes, I will. Just practice right here now and achieve continuity endlessly, forever. This is living in vow. And herein, is one's peaceful life found. So thank you so much, everyone, for everything. Thank you for listening to this podcast offered by the San Francisco Zen Center.

[57:03]

Our Dharma talks are offered free of charge and this is made possible by the donations we receive. Your financial support helps us to continue to offer the Dharma. For more information, visit sfzc.org and click Giving.

[57:25]

@Transcribed_UNK
@Text_v005
@Score_97.29