Good morning. Good morning. Please, if at some point during my talk, if you can't hear me, put your hand up and I'll try to speak louder. I'd like to begin by talking to those of you who are the younger members of our gathering this morning. What I want to talk about this morning is curiosity, and I thought I'd start with a story that I can tell you. A week or so ago I was in the mountains, in the Rocky Mountains near Aspen, Colorado, on my way to a Catholic monastery where I was invited to spend a few days. And we passed a big ranch where they raise two different kinds of animals that come from the high, high mountains in South America called llamas or yamas and alpacas.

[01:06]

And what I found out about the llamas in particular, they're quite big animals. They have very long necks and big eyes with long eyelashes and very big soft feet. So they're used in the mountains to carry packs when people go hiking up in the mountains, when they go camping. But what I also learned was that the animals are used to protect the herds of sheep and goats from the coyotes who live in the mountains in that region. And I found out that the coyotes that are living there are getting to be more numerous as they are more protected. In fact, there was one group of coyotes that included many young ones who were practicing singing every night. So the four nights I was there, I had the full moon and the coyotes learning to sing,

[02:14]

helping me not sleep. But apparently what happens if there is a llama with a herd of sheep is that when the coyotes come to try to catch and kill a sheep, the llama, because they're very curious, instead of running away, they go towards the coyotes to find out what's this animal, what are they up to, what do they look like, what do they smell like. And of course what happens is that the coyotes are not used to having any animal come towards them. They're used to all the animals that they chase running away. And they get frightened when this big llama comes lumbering over and sticks its nose down to try to find out what's up with you. And so the coyotes run away. So the ranchers in that part of the Rocky Mountains have taken to including a llama or two

[03:21]

with their herds as a way of keeping the coyotes from killing their animals. I don't know if you know this about sheep, but sheep are not famous for their smartness. They're beautiful but maybe a little dumb. So they need some protection. And it's very nice that they have the llamas who do the protecting without fighting, without trying to hurt the coyotes, but curiously out of being interested in them. So I've been thinking a lot since I saw those llamas about the role of curiosity in our lives. You may have heard, I know a lot of us have heard this expression about curiosity kills the cat, a kind of old saying that helps us remember that sometimes curiosity in the wrong situation can be a little bit dangerous.

[04:26]

But what I'm talking about this morning is the kind of curiosity that helps us really see clearly what's in front of us, helps us see not only what's in front of us outside, but to think about and be interested in what's in front of us inside as well. And that if we are curious about things, even things that we're a little bit afraid of, we can sometimes see and understand more of what's going on and then figure out what to do. I think that curiosity in our spiritual lives especially is very important and we don't often think about cultivating a certain kind of curiosity. So I'm hoping that this morning, whatever you do when you leave here, you'll remember about being a little bit curious or a little bit interested in the things that are unfamiliar,

[05:30]

the things that you haven't done before, the things that you haven't seen before, and see what happens when you have that kind of mind of being curious. So that's what I have to offer to all of you. Thank you. Goodbye. Bye. Now for those of you who are perched on the edge of the platform, there are some more cushions here if you want to come and sit on them. Thank you.

[06:33]

Before I continue, in case you're curious about who I am and where I came from, my name is Yvonne Rand and I come from down the road, literally. So to continue this conversation that we might have together about curiosity, I think that whether we consider ourselves or identify ourselves as Buddhists or as Zen practitioners or even as meditators, every one of us has an inner life, every one of us has a spiritual life, whether we have any kind of official connection with a religious institution or tradition. So I'm hoping that what I'm bringing up for our consideration together is of interest and of use to all of us.

[07:52]

One of the things that I've been interested in for a long time is paying attention to what we turn away from and to ask myself and to encourage the people that I practice with to be curious about what do I turn away from. Because, of course, turning away or not looking at is in some ways the opposite of being interested or curious. So there's a kind of tension there between being curious about what I turn away from. It's a kind of double bind that can be quite useful to look into. So to begin with, we can ask ourselves, when do I turn away, how do I turn away, and what do I turn away from? Not to think about or analyze or get into a big discussion about what you observe,

[08:56]

but to let yourself simply observe those specific details. Suzuki Roshi, who was a great Zen teacher around whom the Zen Center first formed, used to talk about beginner's mind. And there's a great practitioner who's written some wonderful commentaries, particularly on the Buddhist psychology writings, talks about cultivating that mind which is responding to each thing, each situation, each person, each moment, as though for the first time. And I think that one of the characteristics or qualities of this mind is a kind of interest or curiosity that we all know when we find ourselves in a situation we've never been in before.

[09:58]

We have some degree of attention, we pay attention, we see when we've walked into a room for the first time. And what I'm suggesting is that that same quality of mind is important and very useful in our inner life, in our understanding, studying our mind stream and what we do and don't do that leads to suffering or leads to happiness. For many of us, we aren't very curious, for example, about the questions we ask, the questions that come up. We turn away from questions. And my experience, especially as I sit and listen to people, which I do a lot, is that very, very often the question someone is asking and not paying attention to, not curious about, is exactly the question that they would benefit from attending to, from listening to,

[11:04]

from just staying with, not trying to answer it too quickly, but to just let the question cook or work in our lives and in our paying attention. Of course, for many of us, what we turn away from, what we're not curious about, is the field of experience that we would call our suffering. And if we're not willing to pay attention to that in our lives, those patterns in our lives that lead to suffering, how will we begin to have an opportunity to begin to work with and train ourselves with respect to those patterns and those habits? Someone that I've practiced with for a few years now came to see me recently to tell me about what I think this person himself would describe as a field of suffering.

[12:12]

What this person described to me were patterns of using substances, all kinds of substances, prescription drugs, food, those I think are the two favorites, as a way of numbing or dulling or turning away from whatever arises in his life that is cause for suffering. And as we were talking, he said, Haven't we had this conversation before? Haven't we together described and looked at certain patterns in my life a number of times over the last few years? In the midst of the conversation, he noticed that this was not a conversation that he had participated in with me for the first time,

[13:14]

and that every time he had said, Oh, yes, this is something I want to work on, this is something I want to look into, and then had walked out the door and had what he calls amnesia. Of course, we all have amnesia, especially about pain. It's one of the ways we cope. But there's certain kinds of amnesia that leads to our finding ourselves in a very familiar place over and over again in our lives. What I sometimes call the underbelly of our lives, the dark side of our lives, what Jung calls the shadow. Who wants to pay attention and be curious about all this miserable stuff? So the art is in the skill, is in knowing how to be curious, how to be interested.

[14:16]

The model that is used for relationship in the Buddhist tradition, in all of the schools of Buddhism, not just in our school, is the relationship of a mother with her only newborn child. In some very early teachings, the relationship of any adult to a very young child. That is, the relationship of the adult to the one who is young and needs protection and tenderness and care. My experience is that I can have that quality of a mother with her only newborn child. With that which I'm inclined to turn away from. And that may sound, again, like another tension point, and I think it is, especially initially.

[15:20]

But if I bring that mind, that heart of tender interest, attention, in the way, as a mother, when my children were young and would hurt themselves, I would be interested in all kinds of things that anyone else would turn away from. We sometimes laugh about how a mother doesn't have aversion with her child's feces, but is interested. Because, of course, you can know so much about what's going on with your child, your baby, when you change its diaper. Or if the child has a wound. Do you say, ooh, I don't want to look at that ugly, bleeding wound? The response is to be interested in what is happening with your child's wound. To clean it and be able to look at it in order to determine what is appropriate for taking care of it.

[16:24]

Disinfectant and a bandage, or going to the doctor for stitches, or whatever. I think all of us, whether we've ever had a child or not, can pretty easily imagine that quality of mind. So in this curiosity, this cultivation of curiosity and interest in what we're inclined to turn away from, what I want to suggest is that it's possible to do this turning towards what we begin to realize we have an inclination to turn away from. But that we can do it most effectively if we do it kindly and tenderly. And for most of us, that means initially briefly. If I can bring my awareness to some pattern in my life that I'm not so thrilled about,

[17:31]

for the space of an inhalation, there isn't anything in the world that I can't attend to that briefly. And of course, after I bring my attention to whatever it is I'm observing, for the brief space of an inhalation or an exhalation, I then have a certain confidence of, oh, I could do this. And I can then bring my attention to whatever it is for an inhalation and an exhalation. And if I'm willing to stop while I'm ahead, if you will, but come back to this noticing, whenever whatever it is I'm working with arises, naming and observing briefly, I begin after a little while, surprisingly quickly, to actually be genuinely quite curious about what it is I'm noticing.

[18:31]

One woman that I've been practicing with for a fairly short time, maybe a year or so, began doing a practice which comes from the very early teachings in which I've talked about before. I talk about it all the time because it's such a useful and effective practice, the practice of bare noting, of noticing, but so briefly that it's hardly at all. You observe whatever it is you want to observe, some pattern that you realize you have in the way you speak or certain kinds of thoughts that you have in your mind, or it can be with anything. So my friend began doing this bare noting practice. She would observe judgment, habitual judgment, observe and label or name, and then shift her attention immediately to some very specific neutral body sensation,

[19:40]

like her foot resting on the floor or right now my thumb tips touching, and then a breath. That's the whole practice. And after she had been doing bare noting for a week or two, she came to see me and she said, I'm amazed at what I'm beginning to understand and see about my habits. Things that I've been doing for a long time but was not aware of. And, of course, what she discovered was that the more she did this bare noting, the more curious and interested she became in what she was noticing. The curiosity and interest was not something that was the consequence of making a big effort and, in fact, was more useful to her to the degree that it was almost an organic process out of the noticing, letting the curiosity arise.

[20:43]

The problem in our lives is that what we don't notice but keep doing, the patterns we get stuck in, can lead to enormous amount of suffering that can go on for a lifetime, can go on for many lifetimes. As we know from Western psychology, the insights of Western psychology, there are certain patterns that we can pass to our children and they to their children. So there are certain kinds of patterns of behavior, ways of responding or not responding, that can live in us as individuals, can live within a family, can live within a community for a very long time. And the antidote, over and over again, is curiosity, is observing, is a willingness to see what is so. Of course, that sounds quite simple, doesn't it?

[21:50]

But over and over again, I find myself saying to someone, this practice that I'm describing to you may be simple, and it is in many ways quite simple. That doesn't mean that it's easy, doesn't mean that we don't have the sense of going against some inner stream called habit or called doing what's familiar. How many of us have something that we do over and over again that's very familiar, that some part of us knows leads to unhappiness, and yet we keep returning to what is familiar over what is unfamiliar? I think that's true for us as human beings, that unless we are very clear about what we're doing,

[22:51]

our tendency will be repeatedly to go for what's familiar. So what I want to suggest to you this morning is that you consider cultivating a kind of curiosity or interest in what you do, especially some curiosity about what you do that leads to suffering, and that what you might begin with is this point that I've found so useful in asking myself, what do I turn away from? In a long retreat that a few of us did last winter for eight days, we spent the whole period of the retreat just noticing what we turn away from. It was very interesting to me how much came up for all of us.

[23:57]

That sounds like it could be a very boring week, but it wasn't. As we slowed down, as we were silent, as we let our minds and bodies settle, we could begin to observe very subtle forms of turning away. Now, of course, this observing has certain characteristics. One of the most important ones is to observe without judging, without criticizing. That's the mother part again. Oh, I don't like this child. I think I'd like to give this one back, and I'll try for another one. That's not the mother's mind. Those of us who've had children know that even as newborn babies,

[25:03]

our children looked very beautiful to us. Someone not related would say, Hey, what a funny-looking baby. That ability to bring some attention or awareness without judgment is much harder for most of us than we would like to think. That's one of the reasons why the bare noting practice is so useful, because we shift our attention before that cranky, critical mind can pop up. It's very helpful. And, of course, after a while, when we get the hang of it, we begin to have more confidence in our ability to notice something with that kind of brief, free-of-judgment quality. And as we have the experience of doing it, we're able to do it more and more effectively. All week, since I drove by the ranch yard with the llamas in it,

[26:14]

I've been thinking about those big, strange, rather beautiful-looking animals being the source of fear in the coyotes, because they're curious about the coyotes. Quite wonderful. From their standpoint, apparently, they're just going over to look at this new, unusual animal. But, of course, the coyotes don't know that. They don't recognize the llama saying, Hello. Or, Who are you? So, what are the coyotes in our lives? People sometimes wonder why Zen students voluntarily sign up for a seven-day retreat.

[27:18]

Seven days of sitting, mostly with the legs crossed, facing the wall. And we pay for it to boot. It's a very interesting and useful thing to do. Because, of course, the minute we voluntarily agree to sit down and let someone else be in charge of when we get up, when we sit down, when we walk, when we bow, when we eat, when we take a break, when we get up, when we go to bed. For most people, especially with their first retreat or sasheen of this sort, they go a little crazy. I remember my first retreat of this sort, and I kept marveling that I had signed up and that I was here voluntarily. And, of course, immediately with that kind of limitation,

[28:21]

I began to find out things about my mind. What happens when I give someone else the responsibility for watching the time and indicating what's next? What happens when I sit down with some agreement, some commitment to sit still with my back straight, not moving? And particularly in longer retreats, what we get to find out is what happens in the mind with discomfort, when my back begins to hurt, when my knees ache. If my response is resistance or I want to get rid of the pain, after a few retreats I begin to know very well that the very thought or inclination to get rid of the pain seems to lead to an intensification of the pain.

[29:24]

So then what I'm left with is the exploration of some other way of relating to physical discomfort. And the more I extend my range of responses, including turning towards the physical discomfort, the pain, whatever it is I call it, I discover that the capacity for relationship, as it's extended in the context of retreat, is enormously helpful in my life. Because, of course, pain arises in our lives, bidden and unbidden. I had an experience of this yesterday. I got what I think is maybe my first obscene telephone call. Laughter on my office phone, which has the telephone company answering business.

[30:28]

The message I have is, Hello, you've reached 388-5572. This is the number for Yvonne Rand. So the person who left this wonderful message said, Hello, 388-5572, Yvonne Rand, Yvonne Rand. And she then let me have it. Pretty terrible, violent message. She called me some splendid names. Laughter My response was very strong. I felt physically, not just mentally, but physically kind of shocked and upset. Words on a message system.

[31:37]

But I experienced the message as almost physical kind of assault. And I learned a great deal about my own mind stream in the face of that kind of violence and aggression and disturbed mind aimed in my direction, though probably not having anything to do with me. I realized later that this person only knew who she was calling because I told her in my message. I know that my ability to watch my response through the course of the day is directly related to the experiences I've had sitting on the cushion with my legs crossed.

[32:40]

How long does it take to be curious about some experience which I'd rather not have, which I'd like to have go away? You know, I can go through all kinds of gyrations to try to keep myself from receiving any more obscene phone calls. But that's a little bit like what a teacher of mine once suggested we sometimes do with our suffering, which is to try to cover the whole world with shoe leather. He said, imagine that the world is completely made up of a desert filled with sharp rocks and cactus and spines. And our response to that environment is to cover it all with leather. And actually, all that is necessary is to put some leather on the bottoms of our feet. It's a great analogy, I think, for cultivating the mind

[33:51]

so that we become accustomed, we become familiar, we become confident in our ability to turn towards that which we turn away from. Fear or anger, they're right at the top of most people's list, but not exclusively, certainly. My own experience in working with my own mind stream in the way that I'm suggesting that you might consider as well is that I have come to understand, not intellectually, but experientially, that there is literally nothing that can arise that isn't at least potentially grist for the mill. The occasion for the cultivation of a calm and serene mind.

[34:56]

One of the practices that I am particularly fond of is a recitation of what are called the Four Immeasurables. May all beings have happiness and the causes of happiness. May all be free from suffering. And the causes of suffering. May all never be separated from that sacred happiness which is devoid of suffering. May all live in equanimity without too much aversion or too much attraction. And may all live believing in the equality of all that lives. So the line that I'm working off of this morning is the one about may all of us live in equanimity without too much attraction and too much aversion. Letting ourselves begin to be curious and interested in noticing when attraction or aversion arises.

[36:04]

Because if we do that, after a while we begin to see how easily we get caught with both. We get just as hung up. We have just as much suffering from too much attraction as we do from too much aversion. They're just going in what look like opposite directions. I'm amazed at how it feels to me to be free of holding on to one or the other. And how much that loosening of the grip on what I'm attracted to or what I'm not attracted to or what seems to be a trigger for aversion

[37:10]

has arisen as a consequence of becoming curious about the detail of what I'm drawn to and what I'm repelled by. We can begin with our own state of mind. We can begin with the emotional states that arise when we get upset. There's a wonderful meditation on the transformation of anger which proposes in the first step holding the emotional state at the heart with the tenderness of a mother holding her only newborn child. Such a radical idea. To be with, tenderly, not holding on but not pushing away the emotion of anger or fear of anything.

[38:11]

I'd like to envision us as a room full of llamas with big beautiful eyes and long eyelashes. Such soft padded feet that when we go up into the mountains or even up onto the trails here above Green Gulch we don't cause any erosion because of the soft padded feet. Immensely interested and curious in everything. Because of course the world, inner and outer, is quite marvelous and amazing. So, pick up and hold in your hand very loosely the possibility of curiosity and interest and see what happens.

[39:17]

Thank you very much. Thank you.

[39:28]

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