This podcast is offered by the San Francisco Zen Center on the web at www.sfzc.org. Our public programs are made possible by donations from people like you. Greetings and welcome back to those who were here yesterday and to those who are new today, welcome. Glad to have you in the room. So yesterday we began talking about this notion of competition that can come up during sangha or any group in society, anywhere where there's more than ourselves. We may compete with ourselves too, but anywhere where there's usually more than ourselves, there's this way in which we compete. And when I sat down to explore this notion of competition for myself and my own life, I began to see that there was something rooted in it and what was rooted in this need to compete, need to be seen, this need to be something, to become something, to be something other than what I saw myself as.

[01:20]

And so that come right on in. And so that became, you know, an exploration that took some time, you know. It was starting to bother me because I found myself disliking people if they got what I thought I should get. You know, those kinds of things were just really getting in the way of my experience of compassion, forgiveness and reconciliation. And so that's why I began to explore those three, which I call elixirs of sangha, or you can say elixirs of community or elixirs of society. I started to look at those things, compassion, forgiveness and reconciliation. Those experiences for me were being stymied by this, sense of rejection or sense of not belonging, not being visible, being ignored, feeling wronged, and those kinds of things. So on the other, that's kind of an adverse way of speaking about it.

[02:26]

And another way to say is, might we be using some of the things we become or the people we are, right here either in Sangha or in community or society, be those places in which we are seeking acceptance. We are trying to be accepted and invisible, you know, with ourselves mostly, but also with those around us. And so we feel that maybe somebody, we might feel that somebody or someone is being more accepted and then therefore that someone or somebody becomes put on a pedestal or put on top. And you may perceive that as being on the bottom, you're on the bottom. So then we have this notion of top and bottom. I am on the top, I am on the bottom based on where I have worked myself to be or want to be or don't want to be.

[03:27]

Or we are on the top and they are on the bottom. in those kind of notions, or they belong, they don't, or the inferior or superior being. In our heads, there's an intellectual knowing that this might not be true. Oh no, there's no top, there's no bottom. Everyone belongs. We know this. But in how we behave, in the way that we have been conditioned sometimes in our life, and talking to that with some people, we sometimes fall into this trap of top and bottom, in and out, you know, superior, inferior, and knowing intellectually that that's not my, that is a false sense of life. And so, but I still feel it's something to explore and work with compassion, forgiveness, and reconciliation.

[04:30]

So we didn't get that deep into those three things, and maybe we'll get deeper. I don't know. We don't have that much time, only an hour. And I want to hear from you. I don't just want to speak. I want to hear you join on the dialogue. You don't have to have a question. You can have a comment, you know, just join the dialogue. So we started off with this poem that I wrote when I began to sense this competition in myself. I wasn't surprised about it because I used to be what they call letter girls, you know, letter boys, myself a letter girl, and I ran track and I played in tournaments, volleyball, and so therefore wrecked my knees at 18. And I'm still really dealing with it today. So if you play anything or do anything with your knees, take care, as my mother said, and I didn't listen. So anyway, I want to read this poem that I wrote. Some of you heard it yesterday.

[05:31]

Those who heard it yesterday, I want you to listen to see if something else of the poem shows itself rather than what showed itself to you the other day. Or if you missed the entire thing to see if maybe there's something you might get today. And if you miss it again, that's okay. You're not really missing it. Something's just going through. It's passing through. So just don't grasp. Just listen. For those who haven't heard it, just listen. And just take a piece of it. And, you know, sometimes somebody said, told me, you don't have to always eat the whole pie. Just take a piece of it, even though it all tastes good. So here we go. It's called Human Race. Life is no endurance test in which we must race like wild horses being chased from behind, barely hearing the sound of creeks running over small stones. Rushing forward, we fall over jetted cliffs in an earth-pounding gallop to claim the gifts thought to be scarce.

[06:36]

At the bottom of the canyon, the serenity we thought was lost crawls out from inside and presents itself while we are on the ground. No need to compete for the inherent gifts exhausting ourselves in fierce competition. making less or more of our lives, blended, blinded by the beauty of another's cloak. There is no more admirable work than to breathe, to turn back in the middle of the race, avoiding crumbled edges along the way. You return to the creek where water rolls over stones, and then, ever so lightly, you make footprints in the direction of home, where your heart lives, where tea is ready, and you are invited. So we'll experience that again.

[07:41]

So I wrote that during Shisou, and that's head student at the Zen Center. It wasn't about what was happening there. It was about what was happening in my life, actually, you know, and what was happening inside of me. And I saw some emails before I came to Zen Center that folks were moving toward one teacher instead of me, you know, as a teacher. And I noticed this, like, why would I be upset about that, you know, because the teacher they were moving toward was wonderful. And I really... with that and realized that there was this sense that I was falling back into something old, some old place, an old experience of rejection and not belonging, invisibility, and some old conditioning coming up. Of course, in a moment, that wasn't the first thing that came to me. Oh, I'm falling back into some old conditioning. Exactly. I have all those words.

[08:47]

All I had was like, what? You know, a normal human reaction, right? I'm a human being. Why? Oh, my God. And then I asked myself, which is what I mentioned the other day, is who do I think I am? Who do I think I am and what do I think I am? you know, what is going on here that's driving this suffering inside me that only I am going to experience because I'm not going to call everybody and say, why are you doing that? You know, maybe in an old couple, you know, a lot of years ago I might have asked someone, you know, kind of underhandedly, you know, ask them a question with the motivation of finding out something, you know, because we'll do that. They try to get it straight, you know, for ourselves. Might ask somebody something to see if you can get an answer. about your own rejection, you know, or not belonging. And so it definitely was a great journey for me.

[09:48]

And that's why I want to share it with you, because I really feel that we talk a lot about compassion and forgiveness and reconciliation. And we sometimes are unaware of how that might manifest itself or how that experience when it presents itself what it looks like. And so I'm not saying I have the answers to that. I just want to explore it here with folks that I feel might be somewhat interested in the topic. So yesterday I talked about compassion being a gentle response to life, to self, to others and things. And so sometimes people I'll go like, well, you know, sometimes often I don't feel that gentle. But at the same time, we sense this gentleness even inside ourselves. But we're not willing to share it a lot of times or experience.

[10:55]

Sometimes we'll share compassion from our mind. Oh, let me help those people. Let me help them because they can't be helped. Let me... It's usually kind of external, you know, I'm going to have compassion for you. We're going to go out and have compassionate action. And if I ask in this room what experience of compassion is, it would be maybe a different answer for each one of you, a different completely answer. You might have some similarities in the language, but the experience of it might be different. And so I try to explore that as well. What were the experiences of compassion by questions, not by having a definitive answer. We look for answers a lot, especially when we come to class. We're looking for answers a lot of times. And I heard one teacher say answers are cheap. And I really do feel that way because it's such a wonderful thing to explore and to come up with one's own discovery.

[12:01]

And so I'm hoping that even in this process, if you have a discovery, please, please, please share it. You know, I'm not against that. So compassion... And we had talked about the Heart Sutra being that place where we start at most Buddhist centers, and especially here at Zen Center, the Heart Sutra is chanted quite often. Every week in the Heart Sutra is that place to arouse that compassion that I'm speaking of. And so we speak of Avalokiteshvara Bodhisattva. when deeply practicing prajna, paramita, deeply practicing wisdom, that, you know, we just chant this about the skandhas being empty and form being empty and then emptiness having form. And we just kind of go back and no eyes, no ears, no notes. And we're doing that and we're practicing that. And so I'm wanting to bring the chant to mind. So when you do chant that, to see what,

[13:04]

inside you if your body relaxes. I know when I first heard that chant and I came to actually the first time I heard it was at Tassajara. I came for a work weekend and they were chanting this and I felt this complete ease, immediate ease but had no idea what the chant meant and I didn't understand it in my mind. And I went to ask, you know, what does it mean? What does it mean? And they would just smile at me, the practice leaders, like, you know, it's not something you just, we're going to sit down and tell you what it means. And at first I thought it was a little bit cruel that they would explain this thing to me because I need to understand. And I'm glad it didn't happen that way. As I began to sit with this whole idea, it's Avalokiteshvara is bodhisattva, is the shape of compassion, as is Kuan Yin. which a lot of people, Kwan Yin, China, or we say Kanan, or Kanzeon, when we chant, Kanzeon, and then Kwan Om in Korea.

[14:12]

Every culture, society takes on some shape of this compassionate being, our Bodhisattva. And so I began to realize that this was a place in which I didn't have to spend my whole life energy being a particular way, although that's what I was doing and continued to do even after learning this in the chant, that this was a chant to arouse the compassion, to see who my nature, my own nature, without all the things that are attached in form, and then to see the interrelationship among all beings. That chant is to me about the interrelationship of all beings and understanding that as a core ground for compassion. So when I say gentle response, some people try to act that out. It's not a behavior.

[15:14]

You can't act it out. It's an experience that must come from your life and it's just like you can't act out awareness or act out being a tree. It's just, it's there. It's there in awareness of our environment. So some of the questions that kind of maybe bringing up your own experiences of compassion, I asked the other day, can you accept who you are? You know, just starting with that compassion and just bringing up that experience right here, right where you're sitting right now in this moment, not the moment in time, but the moment, period, not this moment. Can you not let an... others' impressions of you. Those things that are imposed upon you that don't feel quite right, can you let go of that impression that's imposed upon you? I realized early on that as I was growing up, the many labels

[16:18]

you know, around my embodiment and who I am, I felt everything that I know that I call myself, someone told me that I was that. And then I became very political around those places, you know, to maintain them and to shore them up and to give myself some kind of solid life experience. And then that began to kind of break down when I came into the path of Dharma, when they didn't tell you this is who you are. They ask you, what is this life? And when they ask, what is this life? Or what is life? Or even who am I? I kind of like the one, what is life, as opposed to who am I? It opened up a whole door for me right there to allow various places of this life inside to unfold and express itself in very many different places and with names that If I wanted to name it, you know, name it and then not hold it and not have to convince anybody of it.

[17:26]

And then it made me do with all those other labels. I don't have to convince anybody of it. It just is. That's just the way it is. I can hold them. I cannot hold them. But it's not, my life is not centered there and grounded there. It's grounded in the movement and the awareness of our life. You know, when I began to say, what is life? Which allowed me to do things like come to Zen Center and become a priest and people look at me like, how did you ever get to a Japanese Soto Zen tradition in this embodiment? You know, and I said, you tell me. You tell me. And when I see it, I look at my face, why not? This is the Dharma. This is it. You know, it's all of it. You know, so I don't question it. I don't, you know, really, when I do, I end up with a lot of interesting stories that I won't go into, but very interesting stories. But it's not really in the end when I'm finished telling myself the story, it has no real ground because tomorrow it's going to be another story.

[18:34]

So depending on what the practice shows me, which I'm sure is with all of you, you know, why are you here? Why are you here right now? Why would you choose Zen Center, even if you're just taking a vacation? Why would you be here? So compassion. Can you continue with love when love is not returned? Can you continue? You can say open heart. Love is some kind of word that kind of traps you. Can you have an open heart when you feel that others' hearts are closed? And that's a very compassionate place to be, to, you know, hold that question. You know, can you still have that available, that open heart that is you, that is us, that exists anyway, and the closed heart being an appearance. I just shared with someone recently that when I came to Zen Center One practice period, and I just said, you know, I just don't feel loved, you know,

[19:37]

And the teacher said, you know, everyone, everyone, you know, here loves you. And I was like, you know, they don't even know me, you know, in my mind. And then when he said that, they just don't know they love you, you know. And I was telling someone, it really not woke me up to their love, but to my inability to express my own love. Because when he said that, I knew I too, was clouded. That was true. My experience of compassion was artificial. It was manufactured, created by something I thought or saw or should happen. Now some people like to move to forgiveness right away. Let's move to forgiveness and then that way we'll work on compassion along the way. But they're very intertwined to me in my experience.

[20:39]

So to really experience compassion, the forgiveness must be available. And there's many, many practices of forgiveness. There's practices of metta. We have the metta sutra to help us arouse the compassion as well and to arouse forgiveness. So when I say forgiveness, I thought to myself, to give, to grant, to allow. I give, I surrender, I let go. And not the I, me, the I, I, I, Zenju, Earth One Manual. I do this because I'm so great. I know how to do this. But this life of surrendering and giving and letting go and to give up a desire for power or a desire, you know, to punish, you know. And so forgiveness, I think right away we have to work through that need to want to punish, even if it's ourself.

[21:41]

I'm going to do this because I shouldn't have done that, so I'm going to do this to make things better. And then that way all will be forgiven. We might sacrifice something great of ourselves for forgiveness. And that can be... turn against us as well because there's a motivation around the sacrifice. So you have to watch what you're doing, how you're doing it, and for what reasons you're doing it. And is it really truly and fully a surrendering, a giving, a letting go place? So here's some of the questions I have under forgiveness. Could it be that the person whom I feel has wronged me done me in, killed my spirit, which is something someone told me I did to them, which was amazing. I could really feel that. She felt I did that. I had to hear it and listen to that a friend years ago.

[22:46]

Could it be that the person whom I feel has wronged me, done me in, killed my spirit, is also struggling with past life experience in the present moment? Could it be that that person in that moment, even though there's a feel of attack at that time, is struggling with that past life experience in the present moment. Could it be that I have expectations of others that they are not aware of? Like when she said that, the woman said, you're killing my spirit. I was like, I really expected something different from her because she had practiced at Spirit Rock, which is a meditation center, I thought, you know, something different would come from her. But why? You know, we are all human beings no matter where we go and what we're doing and on the path. And for her, these emotions were up. It was the emotion. Her emotions were creating a dichotomy between us, you know, that she could not let go of, that I had that power, that I was the one that was going to free her of this pain.

[23:57]

So I accepted, I just went on and said, you know, I hear that you're saying, you know, I kill your spirit, you know. And I just want you to know that really, you know, my heart aches. My heart aches, you know. I didn't say, there's no way I could have killed your spirit because in the realm of Dharma, you know, you know, or something like that, or say, you know, no one can take your power away. You know, the kind of cliches we have are, you know, I could, you know, say, you know, oh, that's called victimhood, you know, you know, all kinds of words we have for that thing. But in the forgiveness, I, somewhere in there, my action created something large for her, but I don't know what it was. I don't need to dig into her life. All I can say is how it felt to me and how heavy it was. And to say that was to forgive in that sense for me, to just say, just to acknowledge it and recognize it.

[25:03]

I didn't say, you know, become like I'm some kind of villain. I didn't take on that either as a perpetrator, but I did accept it and acknowledge the experience. Am I unwilling to let folks off the hook? You know, so even after I did that, there was a way in which she... wanted to keep hooking and [...] I just remained quiet as she hooked. She wasn't going to let me off that hook that easily because I couldn't give her what she wanted anyway. We could have sat there until today and it would not have happened what she wanted. Do I need an apology before I can let go? Do I need an apology before I can let go? These are some questions you can ask yourself in the experience of forgiveness. Am I willing to not blame myself or others? And I'm willing to not blame myself or others. So then that's forgiveness. These are some questions. We can return to them. Reconciliation is, I just used one word, and that's willingness.

[26:04]

Is it within my will to acknowledge our interrelationship as human beings to be in this just life, just be in this one oneness of life? Is it within my will to acknowledge our interrelationship as human beings and a willingness? Is there a willingness to let go of what I think is real? Because sometimes we're so sure. I am so sure this has happened. I am so sure. I cannot deny that this has happened. And I have evidence. I even have some people to speak on my behalf. Listen to them. You know? Is there a willingness to abandon the story, rumors, gossip, opinion, ideology, perceptions for sake of reconciliation, for the sake of our being together, to being, breathing together, simply just breathing together? Is there a willingness to abandon, you know, the rumors, the gossip?

[27:10]

So when we hear of things in our community, our sanghas, or just among our friends and family, you know, are we willing to, you know, we kind of, you know, I remember my mother, you know, telling the story, the story about her brother. I mean, for the entire lifespan I had with her, you know, and there's these stories that constantly are told, even though they may have come to some kind of end. So once there's reconciliation there's actually a willingness among all the people and all those involved are in the place. Then to continue to talk about it and to have rumors about it and to take it away from the place in which the reconciliation has occurred is to break that reconciliation. It's to break that promise to allow things to grow back together. There's big reconciliation projects. you know but they always start with the reconciliation. They don't start with the compassion and forgiveness.

[28:12]

There's big projects like around in South Africa around apartheid and they start right with reconciliation. They want a willingness to abandon all the stuff. It's just not going to start at that point to me. Not that it's all steps but it has to include the compassion and forgiveness and then the reconciliation is part of that you know hopefully. And some people think that the apology is the reconciliation, but it's not. The reconciliation is the harder part. To me, sometimes more difficult because it requires some kind of growing together and developing together over time. Is there a willingness to consider the other's experience even if I don't understand or believe? So sometimes we're like, well, I really don't understand it, so... Everything is stopped at this point. I don't understand what you're doing. I don't understand who you are. I don't understand why you're being this way. I don't understand. I don't understand. And there needs to be a willingness for reconciliation for you not to understand, not to understand or believe, because that happens here.

[29:15]

And if we're waiting to understand and believe, the thing that is in our heart will not come forth. So maybe starting with the heart will bring the understanding instead of trying to go the other way around. You know, I need to understand the dynamics of everything. I need to understand who you are, why you live the life you live. Tell me about what's going on here. You know, before I give you myself, before I join you in this life we have as being sentient beings. And so we have these parameters sometimes. Is there a willingness not to no longer judge others? Meaning judging ourselves as well. You know, is there a willingness to, you know, kind of... Let that aside. Even though it will arise, you can have the willingness to not let it happen. All these things, even though they will arise, because we're human beings, it will happen. Is there a willingness to work through misunderstanding and discrimination without hatred? So do you want to hold on to it? Do you want to hold on to it all? And clutching and grasping at these things.

[30:19]

So yesterday I talked about... Climbing that mountain and feeling like I was on top of the mountain, you know, when I was, she was so head student and I had three more feet to go and I was tired and exhausted. And then they said, well, who are you going to be when you get to the top? Which was who I was when I thought there was a bottom. There was no top, there was no bottom. But, you know, the climbing, that action of feeling like I was climbing and, you know, had a motivation behind it. And it also would drive the competition. if I continue to feel that I was doing this, you know. And we use that metaphor a lot to say that we're getting somewhere. I'm climbing the mountain, I've been to the mountain top. So that does happen. So I know that that's something. So I really needed to not use my efforts at leadership or my priesthood or teacherhood to erase an entire lifetime of rejection. Not going to happen. Not going to happen. You know, no matter what.

[31:21]

That's not what this has unfolded for, not to erase those things. So I'm going to read the poem one more time and then open it up for discussion and we'll see where we go from there. One more time. Life is no endurance test in which we must race like wild horses being chased from behind, barely hearing the sound of creeks running over small stones. Rushing forward, we fall over jetted cliffs in an earth-pounding gallop to claim the gifts thought to be scarce. At the bottom of the canyon, the serenity we thought was lost crawls out from inside and presents itself while we are on the ground. No need to compete for the inherent gifts, exhausting ourselves in fierce competition, making less or more of our lives. Blinded by the beauty of another's cloak.

[32:24]

There is no more admirable work than to breathe. To turn back in the middle of the race. Avoid crumbling edges along the way. You return to the creek where water rolls over stones. And then ever so lightly, you make footsteps in the direction of home. Where your heart lives and tea is ready. And you are invited. So I'm going to stop there and open the room up to join in a dialogue. And those who were here yesterday, do you want to share any experience you had yesterday after? Or, you know, we had this talk, you know, feel free to share. And just opening that up. you know the person is a grown adult, they're not going to change, nothing's going to put anything back together.

[33:48]

What do you do about that? Just knowing that it's an ugly world. You don't even have, just nothing, just stop at the nothing. Can you sit with just nothing? Not the ugly, because it's not ugly. It just is. It just is. So there's sometimes, the stale tells you, the stale is to just, you just, there's no, you know, we're not making penicillin. There may be some mold there, but, you know, there's no thing to work with. It's not soft enough. to work with. The bread's hard. So I've been in those situations where actually there were misunderstandings and the encounters last for 10 years and now those people are my friends, the same ones that it was not going to happen. And as life unfolds, if one of the questions was can you understand, which maybe they came to, that

[34:54]

Could it be that the person who I feel wrong, need them in, killed my spirit, is struggling with past life experience in the present moment? So I just allow whatever I did or whatever they feel I did impacted their lives or how they impacted my life to let it be that, oh, we have run up upon some conditioning, some human conditioning that is so thick. We cannot move. We cannot move. Or afraid to. Sometimes there's a lot of fear to do anything. And then if you begin to just want to fix it so it feels better, that motivation doesn't want, doesn't laugh to make it feel better. And that doesn't, it just doesn't, laugh doesn't necessarily always work, because even in the reconciliation, you still may have feelings that aren't so good, aren't so great.

[36:01]

You know, it's not, we're not working to be happy. Not that kind of happy. I mean, we could, I was about to say, smoke a joint again. Whoops. And get happy. You know, the physical happy, emotional happy that comes and goes, you know, based on something coming in, making you happy, is not sustainable. That's not the happiness in the chat. It's a much rooted, grounded, I wouldn't use the word happy, but that's the translation. And who knows who translated it. but the rooted happiness that doesn't sway according to what someone has said or done or things like I could be much happier if it were cooler for some people. For me, I'm happy in the heat.

[37:03]

So when it gets cold, I'm not as happy as everybody else when it gets cool. But those are superficial happiness kind of, I don't know, I call them... receiving our favors, you know, what's favorable, you know, who's favorable, where is it favorable, you know, and comfortable, you know, and that'll make me happy, you know. So that's not the happy in the chat. I'm most sure that the happiness is not that. Yeah, I see what you're saying, but just to be in accord with other people, I don't see that as a cheap kind of happiness. Uh-huh. If that's your definition of happiness, then yes. For that, yeah. Well, if it's your personal motivation to be happy and you're working at that, then you're imposing your desire to be happy rather than moving toward reconciliation based on a heart sense of your relationship with that person.

[38:10]

You know, so that's all I'm saying. So the desire for happiness could, may not, I'm not saying in this situation, could block that reconciliation even for yourself, you know, coming to that compassion for yourself in that situation, for the situation, when I say self, compassion for the situation, forgiveness in the situation, and just allowing this thing to be as it is, allowing to do nothing. and not needing to move to be for the happiness, even if the aspiration is for all beings. Because, again, you have to ask, who are you to create that kind of bliss? Who are you? I appreciate what you've been saying as far as wanting, and it locks into what you're saying right now in this answer with Rachel.

[39:20]

Because I think probably a lot of people have such a strong urge to be accepted, as you were saying, that we have to sit, and this has been a piece for me, I really need to come and reconcile with myself before I can begin to reconcile with others or to act in accord with others without grasping. So I appreciate your saying before trying to go to somebody, sit with it. Saying this is an inward practice. It's not necessarily going out and trying to fix everything else really. need to come back here and be present and forgive ourselves. But it doesn't mean that you have no responsibility in letting a person know that something is going on. So Thich Nhat Hanh has a very nice statement. You can go to someone and say, I'm a practitioner and I'm learning to walk the path and I'm going to need some help and it's going to take some time.

[40:34]

So you're not just being silent and they're thinking you're totally being, you know, aloof and disregarding what has gone on. So you still must acknowledge, you know, but you don't necessarily have to fix it, especially if you're not there. You have no experience of what it feels like to have compassion, you know, or to experience compassion. I want to say experience rather than have it because we're always trying to have something. You said stay connected with the other person. And then respond. You keep staying connected. Not staying connected, just respond because they might not want to be connecting to you. They may not. So you just can acknowledge in the parting. You just acknowledge in the parting. What was the, could you say again? Yeah, it's one of his five gifts. We did this on the last time I was here. just that I'm a practitioner and I'm learning these things and I need help and I need time.

[41:39]

And it's just a way of being in your human self rather than, you know, saying I'm going to do... What happens sometimes in meditation practices, you're like, well, I'm doing the inward thing and it's so inward that nobody's doing anything. You know, I remember somebody saying, you know, we weren't having conversations you know, around certain issues and because we're so used to sitting silently in meditation, you know, we don't have a practice of being quiet and breathing, but we don't have a practice of how to engage each other in that place that comes from the breathing, that comes from the silence because we don't have that practice as soon as we sit, we go to work. And so it's kind of, it's not easy, you know, it's a process, not even want to say a process, an evolution, you know, of time that it takes, but we still have to interact an encounter just because we're doing silent meditation doesn't mean that we're in a relationship. So if it's always a constantly inward only process that is not into relationship.

[42:44]

And if somebody's angry at you maybe or you think maybe somebody's angry with you is it good to say could you think can you sit with this and maybe help me with what you need? If they want. It depends on the situation. I don't think there's like even that statement I gave you. You know, if I notice something is up with somebody, I might ask. I mean, I usually wait a long, long time before I would even approach. You know, I had a neighbor like this. She's just acting out, you know, and I saw her at an event and I'm like, what is going on? You know, because I didn't, I didn't, I don't know what it is. And then so I said, you know, I think something's going on and if it is. You know, I would really like to talk about it like that. That's all. And then it's like, you know, all this stuff came out. And I still didn't understand it. I really didn't. And it turned out it really didn't have to do with me, but it involved me in some way.

[43:45]

My charge for my class involved it. I mean, it was really a long journey for herself. you know, and around, does the teacher do dhana, does the teacher charge? It was, you know, questions about teaching, being Buddhist teachers. And she had some reaction, because, you know, I didn't know, and so I said, we can continue talking about it, but she hasn't, and that's fine. But, you know, she comes and sits with me, still, you know, and that's okay. I'm not looking to change that. I want to begin in this moment with that person, this moment. Okay, let's begin in this moment. Okay. And then I'll hand back there. Okay. Oh, two. Okay, I'm sorry. Okay, one, two, three. Okay, all right. Four. All right. I've had conflicts with people where we've met and talked about it and...

[44:49]

We give each other, and we hug, and we cry, and we say, and you know, it's great, and it feels heartfelt, but then still, the next time I see them, and for weeks and months, I see them, and I just like, and I physically flinch from their presence. And when I talk to them, I really stay guarded. And it feels, you know, I mean, it doesn't feel like, didn't feel like when we talked it over, And I acknowledge my side. It didn't feel like I was being insincere, but there's also, you know, I feel like I'm not going to let them get close. So the opening, there's a close still there. Yeah. And you know it already. You know the door is kind of like, I hugged you. Okay. You know, yeah. So there's still the opening. And it could take some time because we would like these things to like the statement I just gave.

[45:51]

We would like that. Click. All right. You know, it's back. It's over. But, you know, what we're dealing with is some old conditioning, you know, between each other. We're working. This is like that's what I say. That's why I say compassion, forgiveness and reconciliation are the elixirs of community. A song of these is the medicine. It doesn't taste good all the time. It's really. And then sometimes we're, like, trying to run from it, you know, and then we signed ourselves up for it, you know, but it's it, you know. So just, I think you notice, even while you were talking, that there was something still, you know, that is afraid. You know, you can acknowledge that for yourself, you know. It's just afraid, and that's your human being. And allow yourself to be a human being, and allow yourself to have the time, you know, and just let it, you know, unfold, you know. I had one teacher, I had situations like that, and she said, well, just keep bowing, you know, and then it got like excessive, you know, to make sure I would bow to that person, you know, and I said, this is really artificial here for me, and so, you know, I did, I tried to go deeper and really open my heart and to allow whatever happened to be done.

[47:08]

When it's a reconciliation, it's, I used to say it's still, it's been put on the altar and it stays there, you don't drag it off. If you put it up there and then it's in your head, you go, well, we hugged, but really, I don't know, but I trust that, you know, then you've taken it right off the altar. It's not even that. It feels like we did do something. You did. You began something. And then it's still like, I still have such a deep discomfort. You began something. and with the discomforts inside you. And them too, but that's not, you can't go, do you have discomfort too? You know, why do that? Just stay there. That's what this practice offers. You're in a wonderful place. They usually say, congratulations. You're in a hard place. Difficult places. Okay, so, go ahead.

[48:11]

It makes a lot of sense to me that the road to reconciliation would begin with compassion. It just makes a lot of sense. And I'm just thinking about this kind of Brazilian love that you have to have when you're feeling betrayed. That's the word that kept coming to me. It was like the deepest hurt I've ever felt, just hurt from someone that you already love, right? It was betrayal. And to be in a place of hurt when you kind of just want to curl up in the cave, but instead you need to try to have an open heart for what feels like a closed heart and to put yourself in the position of the other when you just got all these wounds that you want to lift. Right, so you can't do that. Let me just stop you like there because that's taking on a formula. So now we're in trouble. So now let's see, I'm going to get in your place and see this from your, you know, right away and you're just like these, you're angry or you're really hurt. You really need to have those emotions. You need to be angry, hurt, feel those emotions.

[49:14]

You can't begin to say, oh, they're mirroring, you know, our childhood wounds. These are just questions to hold. They're not things to do, you know, or to, I'm going to try, you know, keep my heart open. You know, if your heart feels closed, it's just acknowledge it and have the compassion for having that. And that's not wrong. It just is right now. That's where the process is. It's teaching you something. Our lives teach us. That's what Dharma is. Dharma teaching of the lives. Our life is the basis. Buddhist life was the basis for his teachings, the Dharma. You know, what he saw, what he observed, what he explored, what he was taught. And that's what comes up here when we say all of that, all the conditioning. Is that first compassion then for your own? I think you have to know an experience of compassion. So you have to... You know, I have to first, like when someone says, you killed my spirit.

[50:16]

I can't. No, I didn't. You know, first response really is that response. But inside, what that no, I didn't is, I did. It's really that. I'm hurt. She thinks that I did. I'm really hurt. So I just stay with that pain of that. Because she's a friend. Whether I did it or not. Like I said, I could go into, there's no way anyone can... You know, and then she said, and you practice Buddhism, you know, loving kindness. She even went into that, you know. You know, you should know loving kindness. And I thought, you know, bite my lip, you know, because that is the myth, you know, and that we feel all we need is to come and sit in loving kindness is at our fingertips. you know, from just sitting because we know Buddha or something, and that's not so true. So I want to get into a couple of more questions. So did you have one? Yeah.

[51:18]

You had somebody else. Did you have your hands up too? You were to wait? Okay. Go ahead. situation that has never been dealt with. I mean, I can put it on the altar and I can accept them the way they are, you know, now in details. But I just wondered if you were in the situation, when you're constantly happy working with someone that really, or a group of people that insist on having their practice whatsoever in their lives, and no spiritual effort whatsoever, they continue to Yes, yes. And what I do is allow people to breathe.

[52:18]

Thank you for listening to this podcast offered by the San Francisco Zen Center. Our programs are made possible by the donations we receive. Please help us to continue to realize and actualize the practice of giving by offering your financial support. For more information, visit... sfzc.org and click giving. May we fully enjoy the Dharma.

[52:44]

@Transcribed_UNK
@Text_v005
@Score_92.19