This podcast is offered by the San Francisco Zen Center on the web at www.sfzc.org. Our public programs are made possible by donations from people like you. So I think you all know by now that suffering is the central theme of the Buddhist teaching and the cessation of suffering is its primary objective. By understanding the causes and conditions that bring about suffering and undertaking actions that lead to cessation, this is called the Buddha Dharma, in sum. Suffering and the end of suffering. So, basic question, how to practice and what? Practice what? A lot of people talk about zazen as a tremendous mystery, which is fine, it is. I think these are questions that maybe we need to be applying to our practice.

[01:01]

Like, why am I doing this? Where am I going? If you don't know where you're going, you'll just kind of be going. And so how, the Buddha said, how to practice is to avoid the two extremes. First sermon. That's how. Middle way. Non-duality. And what are the four noble truths? Basically causality. Dependent core rising. So avoiding the extremes and studying causality. So causality, four number of truths, basically, as I just said, suffering, or I really like this definition of suffering, restlessness, anxiety, discomfort, disease. And it doesn't have to be a big deal. Your suffering can be the ongoing movement of your eyes. As you know, rapid eye movement is not very settled. Sound is not settled. odor, taste, our senses are not experiencing things in a very calm way.

[02:03]

So it's a pretty natural experience for all of us to feel restless, anxious, kind of the norm. The desired outcome is rest, calm, calm abiding. So how do we do this? We study patterns of relationships, this and that causality. How does this happen? Where does this come from? What are the causes and conditions resulting in my disease, my disquiet? So then the first question is, well, what's the problem with our study? And could it be me? No. Well, it's not me. I know you'd like it to be me, but actually, it's you. Each one of you is the problem. I'm my own problem and you are your own problem. And together we are a big problem that we are causing. And number two, thank you. So, okay, so I think it's amazing actually that this simple idea that the Buddha became like the genesis of this entire project was that, well, if the self is a problem, what do we do about that?

[03:22]

How about getting rid of the self? Brilliant. We've got to get rid of the problems, right? We could try. As Senju said, you can try to get rid of every single person that is being aggressive toward you. And she said, I spent the first 40 years of my life doing that. And I was exhausted and enraged. She said, so then I decided maybe I needed to do something about my rage and my exhaustion. I needed to find a way to rest. Turning the light around. okay so who me so that the only thing that truly matters in this life me is going to die is the cause of our anxiety at this really scary news and all of you have childhood stories about your first pet or whatever that died and your parents lied to you about where it went so the medicine for this anxiety the Buddha taught in his second sermon so this is the second sermon now that he's giving to these five ascetics who have become ordained, the first five ikshus.

[04:27]

And this sermon is called The Discourse on the Not-Self Characteristic. This is the medicine for the me problem. Monks, material form is not self. So these are familiar terms now. Form, feeling, perception, impulse, consciousness. You're going to hear those over and over again. Five skandhas. Material form is not self. If material form were self, this material form would not lead to affliction. And it could be had of material form, well let my material form be like that, or let it be not like that. I could be taller, I could be shorter, I could be happier, if I was in charge of my material form. But because material form is not self, therefore it leads to affliction. It cannot be had of material form. Let it be thus. Let it be not thus. And so for feelings, for perceptions, for formations.

[05:30]

And consciousness is not self. If consciousness were self, this consciousness would not lead to affliction because it could be had of consciousness. Let my consciousness be thus. Let me be happy. Let my consciousness be not thus. Let me not be unhappy. But it's because consciousness is not self, it therefore leads to affliction. It cannot be had of consciousness, let it be thus or let it be not thus. So that's his first question. Is it a self? Then he says, what do you think, Big Shoes? Is material form permanent or impermanent? What do you think, Big Shoes? Impermanent. Thank you. Impermanent, Lord. But is what is impermanent? Unpleasant or pleasant? Unpleasant, Lord. But is it fitting to regard what is impermanent, unpleasant, and subject to change? This is mine. This is what I am. This is myself. No, Lord. So, he's kind of leading them down the trail here.

[06:33]

So, therefore, Bikshu's any material form whatsoever, whether past, future, or present, in oneself, or external to oneself, coarse or fine, inferior or superior, far or near, should all be regarded as it actually is by right understanding thus. This is not mine. This is not what I am. This is not myself. Same with feelings, perceptions, formations, and consciousness. And then he says, Seeing thus, Bekshus, a wise noble disciple becomes dispassionate toward material form, toward feelings, towards... perception toward formations and toward consciousness. Becoming dispassionate, lust fades away. With the fading of lust, the heart is at rest. And then the monk knows. Birth is exhausted.

[07:34]

The holy life has been lived out. What was done is done. There is no more of this to come. When the Blessed One had said this, the bhikshus of the group of five were glad, and they delighted in his words. Now, while this discourse was being delivered, the hearts of the bhikshus of the group of five were liberated from taints through not clinging. And now there were six arhats, fully accomplished ones in the world. Okay, pretty easy. Well, at least it's clear. I don't know about easy, but it's clear. I think it's clear. Okay, so we've got the medicine, we've got the cure. So there's still a little bit of a methodology that, you know, all along the line, the monks are going, yeah, but what about, but what about, how do I, so, you know, he's going, okay, let me help you out. Let me break it down for you. So he says, first of all, you have this self problem, okay, the me problem. So one way to prove to yourself, as he just did by breaking it down into the five skandhas,

[08:37]

is to, that's it right here, the Pancha Upadana Skandhas are the five clinging aggregates. So see that what you call yourself is actually made up of parts. There is no singularity hanging out in there. No one has ever found that, although we keep presuming it, that there's a core entity-ness that I call myself, and I defend it, and I protect it, and I try to get all those goodies for it. So... So break it down. What you will find is form, rupa, feeling, vedana, perception, samya, formation, samskara, think you make, consciousness, vijnana. So basically what we're taking is this first split is the body-mind split, which we all do. This is my hand. My body belongs to me. Well, who's the me? Well, the self is declaring this thing as my body. This is my body. This belongs to me. Right? So we already act like we have this split between the mind and the body.

[09:39]

The mind... So this is the shell around the self, the protective layer. It's right about here. So self-made, this is how we make the self. The mind is hit, makes contact with concepts. So the mind is all about concepts, words, language. The body... is making contact with the fields. Again, very simple. The eye, the body, makes contact with visible objects, right? I see something with my eye. With my little eye, I see a boy in green. Sounds make contact with, I mean, the ear makes contact with sounds. I hear the creek, sound of the valley stream. Odors. are for the nose and for the tongue tastes and for the body touchables. Okay? So we have five senses and five fields that meet the senses.

[10:42]

That's going on all the time. And then we have concepts about what's going on all the time. I like it, I don't like it. Actually, those are the feelings. Okay. So. All right. Any questions so far? Yeah, that's a big category. It's how you make things out of really not much. So I will be going... Actually, there are copies of the Dharma charts for you who are interested in complex explanations of things. And there's a whole list of formations, mental formations. So I'll share that with you. Actually, if you want your own copy, you can have one. Okay, so. Someone say your name, no? Yeah, or be taller or be green or whatever you want.

[12:12]

Well, check that out. See if you do. See if you think you have control. I think when people lose their minds, I'm losing control. It's sort of like that idea that there's something in control is a very strong indicator of a self. When we're off balance or we get dizzy or people with Alzheimer's, whatever it is, when we lose that sense of this self being there, there is a feeling of being out of control, of being disoriented. So that orienting mechanism that you use to locate yourself is what he's talking about. Just think about it a little more because I think it's kind of a profound insight when you kind of get it that you really don't have, there is no agent of control. Yikes. There are causes and conditions and that's kind of the point that we'll be getting to in a little bit. you'll find nothing like that that is able to call the shots.

[13:40]

You keep looking. How did this come to be? And I will tell you in a minute, because that's kind of where I'm headed. Just give me a little bit of time, see if I can build a story for you. Okay, yeah. Is this saying there is no self, or is this saying anything that you can mean? that you might think of as a self is not self. Yeah. So if you eliminate everything, what's left? Because, I mean, is that just then saying, in the ultimate sense, there's no self? Because then there's other times where the Buddha says, we'll refer to something that happened in a relative, like, okay, so in my life, this thing happened in the past or something. So... That's the relative truth. And he talked like that, conventional, like we're doing it right now. I just said to you, yeah, that's right, he would have said that. So that's how we play in the relative realm.

[14:42]

If we try to find that, if I try to find that person that is referring to itself as the self, all of a sudden I'm in, above and I'm in meditation. I'm in a whole different realm. I'm looking at the ultimate reality where nothing sticks. None of those labels will hold. Just fingers pointing at the moon. So that's where we're heading. We're going to the second turning, which is what dismantles this one. So this is construction and a really good one, this relative truth. The first turning is in the relative world. It's in relative terms. And it was posited as true in that it was posited as ultimate truth, not relative truth. So the reason they call it the second turning is because they flipped it over. And you're used to second turning teachings, so it's, you know, your questions are actually coming from second turning, I think, exposure. Perhaps.

[15:46]

Uh-huh. Right. So it's relative truth. That's where the two truths come from. The Buddha kept saying, I'm going to town to get some lunch. And they go, well, you just said there's no I. And he said, yeah, well, that's the definitive truth. What I just said is the relative truth. So the whole tradition carries these two truths, and they get redefined as it moves along through each of their journeys. So the relative truth and the ultimate truth in this system is different than it is in the second turning. And I'll try to keep my eye on that particular set of things so that we can keep seeing where it shows up. Consciousness in the way it's used in these early teachings is synonymous with awareness or how we're talking about consciousness.

[17:04]

Yeah, kind of. That's good enough. And it's a problem because it doesn't explain an awful lot of stuff and I'm also going to get to that. Give me 20 minutes and then hit me with all those questions. Can you 20 minutes? Okay, go ahead. It feels important to me to acknowledge the context of self. And like coming from, you know, theologies of like, say, Hinduism, like Christianity, of like this continuum of self. And then kind of breaking away from that in response rather than like, it's like we're in such a scientific age now. Like we're already breaking things down. Right. And that we're coming in things with that understanding. You know, so coming from a different culture into this is like, I mean, it's equally radical now. Super, super radical. Yeah, they was like, I'm amazed he survived. You know, Jesus didn't do that well. So he managed to be an old man and die of old age.

[18:08]

Somebody had, there's a book called Cool Buddha, Hot Christ. Don't challenge the authorities too much, you know. Don't knock over the money changers' tables. They're going to get mad at you. Okay. Where are we here? So what's the problem? Me. I'm the problem. I read you the discourse. Break it down into parts. We got all that. Okay. Break it down all the way down. All the way down. That's next. Break it all the way down. Okay. So in subsequent teachings, the Buddha then continues breaking it down. Where's that all the way down? Okay. Breaking it down all the way down. So we have the five skandhas, right? The ones you're most familiar with. Now, some of you may have heard of the ayatanas and the dhatus. They're really just elaborations on the skandhas. So it's not that big of a deal. And I read in the Abhidharma one time, I was trying to figure, why do they have all these different ways of saying the same thing? And it said, for people who like a short explanation, there's skandhas. For people who like middle-length explanation, there's ayatanas.

[19:11]

For those who like really complex explanations, there's dhatus. Well, that makes sense. So you pick what you like. I like the skandhas myself. That works for me. The way they are, they're all the same thing, iterations of the same divisions. The skandhas are one physical rupa, body, and four mind, form, feeling, perception, impulse, consciousness, are all mental. The ayatanas are the six senses, including mind, as a sense, you know something, plus the six objects of the senses, so again, things you taste, touch, feel, blah, blah, and think. And so, and then... the five physical senses, oh, five physical senses plus one mind, and then a datus, I'm sorry, I know I'm dabbling, the datus are basically just adding one more set of six, being the six consciousnesses. Now you have a complete, you know, list of all the sense organs and the mind, all the sense objects and the mind, and now you've broken the mind down into six types of consciousness, okay?

[20:14]

They were just doing that. I mean, they had nothing else to do. They were sitting in meditation and And they go, oh, I've got a new idea. Okay, so in the sermon I just read to you, the Buddha is utilizing these five categories, the skandhas, to establish the monks in the realization of the three marks of all existent things. And what are they? Not self, impermanent, and suffering, disease. So that's what he was showing them. Look, all these things that you really are attached to are actually the source of your pain. Okay? All right. So now we've broken them down into these more categories, but they're not done yet. He said, and there's no self in here. I mean, part of the exercise is, did you find the self yet? Did you find the singularity? So in case you are still looking... So what is the point of all of this?

[21:18]

It's to study relationships between perceptions because it still seems like something's going on. Nobody's satisfied yet. You're not. I'm not. We're all saying, wait a minute, that's not good enough just to tell me there's no self. Something's still happening here. There's still patterns. So they set up a very elaborate system for studying the patterns of relationships with the assignment that Now, find in this pattern the path to freedom. Kind of like find Waldo, you know. Here's this number of moving parts, and somewhere in there is the path of freedom to niroda, to nirvana. And that chart, the one that you're welcome to have, is called the 75 dharmas of the Sarvasavadans. This is it. So this is the next elaboration of the self. And the monks still meditate on this chart. Because the theory is, each one of these, 75 dharmas, small dharmas, okay?

[22:25]

So now, again, it's just another elaboration of what the self is made up of. These are almost like the atomic theory of the self. So there are 75 unique marks in this system. This is a particular school called the servastavadans, meaning it all exists. All of this exists. It's what actually is real. This is ultimate truth. Combinations of these are not ultimate truth. They are relative truth. So you put together a self with these. That is just a relative truth. That's a compound. That's a formation. You made that up. And you make it up by making conventional designations using language in order to declare that's a cat. So the... the monk says to the teacher, pointing to the thing, I call that a cat. What do you call it? And the teacher says, you call it a cat. Okay?

[23:27]

So we make it up. So what they suggest now is analyze your experience down to the smallest possible constituents, and among those constituents are wholesome dharmas and unwholesome dharmas. So which are the ones you want to get rid of? No, not the wholesome dharma. You want to get rid of the unwholesome dharmas, and you want to cultivate the wholesome dharmas, and that's the path. The path is not conditioned. It's unconditioned, as is the goal, which is nirvana, extinction of dis-ease. Your restlessness will end. Each one of these unwholesome dharmas... can be seen as part of the deal. They have their own marks. I'm going to read you a couple of unwholesome dharmas. Ignorance. Negligence. You didn't make your bed this morning, did you? Laziness. Lack of trust. Stubbornness. Restlessness. Lack of respect.

[24:28]

Indecorousness. Anger. Deprecating others. Being stingy. Envious. Spiteful. Cruel. Grudgeful. Deceitful. Drunkenness with pride. So if you've got any of those, those are the ones you want to get rid of. Each one of them can be seen because it exists. And when you see it and you apply the antidote, for example, to stinginess is generosity. It vanishes. That's the theory. These will dissolve if you apply antidotes. But you have to do one by one by one. It's a long path. And it requires diligence and, you know, intention and meditation so these mostly elite professionals who were doing this work that's what they did for a living they were monks and the lay people gave them food because this is really a big project to track all of this to spot it check it out with your friends and so on the wholesome dharmas for example are trust energy equanimity respect decorousness absence of greed absence of hate

[25:40]

not being hurtful, being serene and diligent. So this is a very interesting study. And again, I have copies of these if you would like, so you can take a look at them yourself. So after much searching, one must conclude that a personal sense of a self is just a label. that's imposed on physical and mental phenomena. It's just a name. You call it a cat. And in truth, the self is a product of two things, linguistic usage and the way that certain mental and physical phenomena are experienced as connected. So this is the key to what comes next, and the rest of Buddhism has to do with studying connection. Does everything just random?

[26:40]

Do we just have momentary experiences and then there's no connection to the past, no connection to the present or the future? I mean, do we just kind of pop along in the present moment? Some of you might, but I don't think so. I think we have a sense of continuity. We have a sense of there's a before and after, that letter from my cousin is what made me upset. We have a feeling of something is causing... There's some causality going on here. So the Buddha taught and studied causality, and that's what he was doing. Oh, the next, the next. Okay. Things are connected. So for Buddha's thought, there is only connectedness. There's no person, but there are connections. So relativity, right? Here's the map of connection. called the 12-fold chain of dependent co-arising.

[27:43]

Things depend on each other. So therefore, studying causality is where we look. As His Holiness said, don't look for blame, look for causes. What's causing this? What are the root causes of my disease? Okay, so the patterns, when you look at them this way, they're kind of stagnant because words are stagnant. That's one of the tricky things about words. They give us the impression of stability. But read on. Where's the stability? You can't hold one of these here very long, not even rest. So these dharmas, these patterns are moving. They appear to be moving. Actually, Nagarjuna will come along later on and say, that's a trick. Nothing's moving. Can't be. But the trick, this diagram of the cycle of birth and death or the pattern of birth and death It takes place in the light, meaning it's what we're conscious of. You know, light, right in dark, there's lightness.

[28:46]

Light, right in lightness, there's dark. All of these verses are about these teachings. So, in the light is the manifestation of the mind as it appears in the illusory mode. This is an illusion. You know, you all know the taking the firebrand and making a circle. Do you all see a circle? Yes. Well, is there a circle? No. So this is an illusion, and that's how illusions work. It's like a movie. Well, it used to be frames. It's a good analogy. Not anymore. I don't know what digital is. Maybe it's not moving at all. So, again, you all have a copy, so you can look at the drawings, which I think are really helpful. The Tibetans have done this iconography around the 12-fold chain, which I find really makes it easier to remember and understand. what the point of each of these links. This is what the Buddha understood when he became enlightened. He saw this sequence of events in his mind.

[29:49]

This is mental. And he articulated this sequence as the first and second noble truth. The 12-fold chain is an elaboration of the first and second noble truth. There is suffering. There is. Suffering is caused by ignorance, number one, ignoring what? Ignoring non-duality, ignoring non-separation, ignoring that there's nothing happening, ignoring the four noble truths. All the things that we ignore is the start of the wheel. And once you've ignored reality as it truly is, you're on your way. So ignorance is followed by karmic formations. You see in the pictures, little potter. Making things. Samskaras. You're making little tendencies of yours, right? We all have little tendencies. Where'd you get those? You go home to your room and what are you doing there? Tendencies. So those tendencies come from your past.

[30:54]

Maybe from your childhood, from your parents' childhood, from evolution, you name it. It's causes and conditions beyond knowing. The whole mass of causes and conditions, starting with the Big Bang and before that, is why we get to sit here right now, or have to sit here right now. So it's all coming from the past, these tendencies, and then the consciousness, so baby's born, each of us were born, and we have what we call consciousness, awareness. The baby's aware, not sure of what, right? It's just kind of crying and reaching and doing these things. And eventually, it takes a form. And the form is... Where is it? Oh, I think it's on the next... There's no more chart? Oh, no. Okay. We're all out. Okay. Well, anyway. Oh, yeah, here it is. So the form... Name and form is the five skandas. So I like this particular depiction of the five skandas.

[31:57]

I think you have that on yours as well. It's a little boat with three passengers... Number four? Is that right? Okay, that little boat, that's the five skandhas. The boat is form, body. The three passengers are feeling, perception, impulses. They have been chosen for very specific reasons that I'll tell you in a second. And then consciousness is the sea of heartbreak, which is what you're floating in. Okay, five skandhas. Well, the... Feeling, perception, formations. And the reason these are picked, okay, so basically we have mind and body. The first split is form and consciousness, right? That's the person. I can find those two, sort of, pretty easily. These three, which are, they're on the Dharma chart, but they're not highlighted in any way. But the reason the Buddha selected these three is because

[33:00]

This is how we go. This is how we walk. You're coming along here. You're walking down the path. You perceive somebody's coming. Perception. And you have a feeling right away. They're almost simultaneous. Emotionalized conceptualization of what you're seeing. So think-feel. You think it's somebody that you're not terribly fond of. And so you form this idea, a formation is that I don't like that person and I'm going to take that path instead. That's an action. Karma. Karma means action. So karma happens here. It's made. You're making it up. And then you realize, oh my gosh, no, that's my friend. I misperceived. And then you turn the other way. Action. So we do this all the time. Preferences, like, don't like.

[34:01]

I'm not sure yet. Like, don't like. I'm not sure yet. Okay, that's why these are so important, and that's why they were picked out to be the passengers in the boat. It's how we go all the time, all day long. Okay? Okay, so now you're going to really understand why that penguin wanted to get that man off his feet. Because this stuff is so complicated. So the Abhidharma, which is this complex explanation of how all of these dharmas swirl together in formation and how they run into other formations, basically had some pretty important principles established that having to do with these dharmas. This is a hard one to remember because you hear Dharma and you think Dharma, capital D, the Buddhist teaching. But this small d dharma refers specifically to this... point of existence, these elements of existence, that each one is just a single, like I just read to you.

[35:07]

So these dharmas, here's some principles. Basically, dharmas are real. They're real. They exist. They exist. And... They have a distinct force to them that bears on our experience. They are truly distinct from one another. So no two are alike and they don't meet. To define a Dharma is to define what it does, what its function is. To exist is to cause and to be caused. So dharmas have impact. They have a result. They create situations. Dharmas exist. Number two... Dharma theory aspires to the ultimate truth, a true account of how things really are. Based on the premise that one is liberated through realization of the actual truth, correspondingly, dharmas are regarded as truly real. So if you get the dharmas, you're going to be liberated.

[36:09]

If you find the path through the chart, you're going to be free. That's guaranteed. In this system. And they took this very seriously. And they're still taking this very seriously. And there's something good that happens when taking it seriously. You can actually become a nicer person, for sure, and stop doing a lot of really unwholesome things. While dharmas are real, possessing ultimate existence, composite entities are not. So a self and common sense things, like the cat, have only conventional existence. They depend on conventional designations, names, language. Dharmas do not depend on conventional designations to exist. They simply exist. Okay? Are you sort of feeling the problem that is building up toward the second turning? The weight of this whole system based on existent things and you can find them and they don't change and so on and so forth. So it's becoming kind of weighty, this theoretical model.

[37:11]

So anyway, as I said... There's three things you can have for yourselves. One is a summary of the Abhidharma Kosha that was done by Charlie Bacorny, and it's really amazing. Actually, you could have that if you wanted it, but you can also look at it. We'll put it in the folder over here. It's got everything in it. And there's also the chart of the 75 dharmas, which you can look at, and you have the diagram of the wheel of birth and death. Okay. So, all right, so we got to the baby. We got to the five skandhas, name and form. And now the six senses, as I was telling you before, the six senses, eye, ear, nose, tongue, body, and mind is a sense organ in this system. In your picture, isn't it a little castle? Okay, that's the self. There's a little drawbridge there. And there's windows for shooting arrows out of. And there's a wall, and you are defended.

[38:17]

The self is defensive. Okay, so that castle, another castle comes along, and they meet. And then what happens? That's called contact. Sparsha. Well, maybe, or they make more castles. That's another possibility. So, contact. Boom. Contact? What's the image of contact? Arrow in the eye. Is that pretty descriptive? Oh, sorry. I'm sorry, sorry, sorry. Oh, contact. What's happening in contact? No, they're kissing. They're not sex. The picture is not pornographic. They're... They're kissing. They're kissing. They're kissing. Okay. The screen goes black at that point. Use your imagination.

[39:20]

That's what it's for. Okay, so contact. Then what happens after contact? Arrow in the eye. So you know when you have a feeling, especially a big feeling, especially after contact. You either liked it or you didn't like it. In fact, that is the definition of healthy boundaries. saying I like this or I don't like this and making that clear all you gotta do no or yes so feelings and I keep saying over and over again stop at feelings okay and you know stop meaning really look at it really feel the feelings be there with the feelings explore it how long does it last is it like eternal are you going to be in love forever I mean what is happening here what kind of a trance are you in You know, hate affairs are just as powerful, if not more, than love affairs. Somebody you really don't like, every time they're around, you feel this thing of aversion. So feelings are extremely significant for driving our lives.

[40:22]

You know, that's why they're in the boat with the perceptions and with the actions. So that's the one place where we have any chance to make a difference, is with the feelings, because they do change, as you know, from Sidney Sachin. I often tell this story. Charlotte Selber, who I think was 104 when she died or something, taught sensory awareness. And one of the things she'd had her students do is lay on the floor, like a wooden floor. And she said, now you just keep laying there and I promise you something will change and it won't be the floor. So feelings change. Our sensations change. It doesn't stay the same. And that's something we need to teach ourselves. We need to learn. It's part of how we grow up, is by learning about how our feelings change. However, if you fail and cross the red line into craving, you're cooked.

[41:24]

Because now, desire is one of the, right? So what are the sources of suffering? Ignorance and craving. Desire based in ignorance is the cause of suffering. You want things to be different than they are. I want that. It means you don't already have it. So you're craving. You're craving something that's external to you, that you think you have to have. Craving, trisna, thirst, it means thirst. The next step after craving is grasping. There's a picture of a monkey, right, gathering fruit. So now you've got bushels full, grasping. One is not enough. I got to have more and more and more. This is our addictive pattern. And then the next step is becoming, you are fully incarnated in the consequences of this decision you made to go after it. And as a result, whatever it is, the car, the love affair, your new hairdo, whatever it is, it will change and it won't be the thing that you want it to be.

[42:32]

It will change. And when it does, old age sickness and death, we are really unhappy. So what do we do? Try it again. That's why it's called samsara, endless circling. So I think it's important to notice, and I wrote it up there, Lord Yama is the Lord of Death. The actual thing that we are afraid of, the only thing that truly matters is me, and I am going to die, is the source of my anxiety. And I don't want to look at that. Lord Yama is behind the wheel. If you've ever seen the Tibetan tankas, the claws and the teeth, but we don't turn and look at impermanence. We're scared of it. So instead, we run. We try to make the wheel go faster. We try to get ahead of the curve. You know, all of these cosmetics and all of these surgeries and all of these things that people will do to themselves to try to get ahead of Lord Yama. So...

[43:32]

You know, our practice is to face the facts of life. Like turn and look. You know, kind of not fear less, but fear less. Less fear. Less fear. Less fear of death. Get used to it. Okay. Okay. So how about some questions about all of that? Laura. As an object of your awareness. I'm going to say a word right now. Apple. That exists in this system. Concepts exist. Concepts exist. They're existent.

[44:33]

Where did you put the apple? Where's your apple? What color? It was the apple I sent you. Does it have a color? Red? It was a green apple. So those exist. Those concepts are what they're talking about. You can make the case they don't. Of course, and we all are going to do that in a minute when we go to the second turning. It doesn't make any sense. My understanding, I thought what you said was that only the 75 truly exist and any compound are actually relative. Right, the 75 truly exist. It's a word. It's a concept. Concepts are on the list. Oh, apple? Well, the word, let's see, I think language is on here. The apple doesn't exist. The word does. I think...

[45:35]

I think so. I think concepts may be on here. Initial application of thought, sustained application of thought. We can find out about that, but I think words are like, you know, as you say, fingers pointing at the moon. Well, like, fingers are the moon. You know, words are it too. So it's not like words don't have impact. So there's, you know, the mind is impacted by concepts. When it hits concepts, you know, Good question. Philosophers have been asking that for millennia. Well, they're saying they're real. They're real. So what's real? Well, that's kind of infinitely regressive. You keep asking what's real, you've got another definition. So just to hold the idea that something is, it exists as opposed to, it's just, you can't, it's what's appearing. It's what's appearing.

[46:37]

These 75 elements appear, so that's... and therefore they exist, they affect your life. Some of them are physical, some of them are mental, some of them are emotional. So read through the list and see if you can see how those things make up you. You've got all these. The problem is, where are they hiding out when they're not in the present? That's the Abhidharma problematic. So they didn't posit an unconscious carrier. in the stream. So the big problem with the Abhidharma was this synchronic versus diachronic problem. What do you do with time? If it's all now, and these only appear now, and you deal with them now, where did they hide? Where were they hiding before now? Are they going to be gone for sure? How come they came back on my birthday? They say that this system doesn't work. That's what they say.

[47:37]

But, you know, that's the argument that's being made by the second turning philosophers. And you've got a problem with these dharmas. The trouble with dharmas is what you're saying. I've got a trouble with dharmas. Yeah, everybody's got a trouble with dharmas except those who believe that they exist. And then they have a trouble with us because we're a different school. So Sarvastavad means it all exists. Sarva exists. And they say it exists in the past too and in the future. It's not like we're in the ocean of existent dharmas. That's how they explain the time problem. Well, yeah, they're just existing in the past. But that's now. That's also existing. So, you know, people can say anything. If you want to make your system work, you can come up with the structure. Not yet. You're not done yet. But I think you should look at the list first and then we can talk about it some more. Yeah. Oh, who? Who are you pointing at?

[48:38]

Somebody's pointing at it. Jill. Both. The first set of afflictions were worked with consciously by understanding the nature of them. The second set... are only available through what's bhavana, which is a deep meditative state. True liberation takes place from penetrating these deep meditative states. Well, that was part of the accusation made against the early practitioners was, well, how come you guys are telling us you're arhats and free of all of these things when, you know, in your sleep, this is literally in the books, you're ejaculating.

[49:42]

What are you dreaming about? So there was an accusation among them. It's like, well, I don't think you're done with your sexual or your passionate life if these are the outcomes of your behavior. So what's going on here? So, you know, little by little, they kind of cut. into the presumption that there was such a thing as really purifying the mind. So there's a different idea about purifying the mind that happens. In fact, the early iteration of the three pure precepts is avoid evil, do good, purify the mind. Doing this. The one that the Mahayama that we recite is avoid evil, do good, save all beings. Save all the beings that you are. That's all of it. And how do you do that? Well, that's our problematic. And we're not so sure. Because, you know, yeah. We're not so sure. Our structures are not, you know, we're not so structural.

[50:45]

You noticed? We don't have a lot of structures. Just wait for the bell. We'll be fine. So, uh... Question over there. Travis? I don't want to take up too much time if you're ready to move on. I knew you were going to answer my question. How long is your question? I don't know. Okay, we'll go. Start. I'm wondering if it's okay, because we're not in Buddha's time anymore. But we are. Okay, we are. If instead we think of it like a story that the net detached. people moving towards the strategy, so that they can maybe, like, rid of, like, oh, like, anything I say is going to be, like, both fully true and fully wrong. So I can kind of say whatever is going to be helpful because I feel that truth of, like, I want people to be able to be helpful. Like, it helps us when we feel purpose in life to, like, help other people. And then we have these, at the same time, people following what we were doing before to, like, run to, like, the extreme to, like,

[51:52]

get rid of it, or fully get it, like a full self or no self. And so maybe like this story is like they're trying to test you at the Met, and say like, oh yeah, you could just stand still, and just be in the middle way, and do these things. And then it progresses, because those people learning that thing, maybe also start to reach this idea of like, oh yeah, and also it's just right here, and they become more people, because it keeps getting taught, and it's like this Met, and it's like, catch up. I'm wondering if it's like... You are presenting the second turning teacher. Okay. No, it's not. Sorry. That's very good. So that's right. It's just a story. So... And that's appropriate for us maybe now. Like, I guess we have some questions about is this real? Is this real? Maybe we can now be like, is it okay for us to be like, maybe it's like as real as a whole... Not yet. Not till the next class. Okay. Okay. I know Reb used to do that to me.

[52:53]

He said, that's not what we're talking about right now. And I go, yeah, yeah, yeah, but what about, but I want to go over there. I said, no, we're talking about the blah, blah, blah. I hate that. It's really hard to stay on the topic, you know. It is. It's really hard. Because you guys have all been exposed to all of these other wonderful things. Like, it's just a story. How many times have we all heard that? I don't know. A lot of times. I've even said it. It's just a story. You call it a cat. It's a story. And it's helpful if it's helpful, like you said. If it's a good story that helps people, that's Indra's net, you know, to bring help to suffering beings. And the Lotus Sutra is exactly about that. If you've read it, if you have it, it would be good for you to read it because then you recognize what you just said. Thank you. Yeah, right. The consciousness picture. Someone kind of grabbed stuff from the tree. That's grasping.

[53:53]

Upadana. Well, there's grasping with the basket of stuff, the consciousness of this one. I was wondering what the olden... Oh. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I forget. But there is a correlation there. Let me see. It is... I have it on my... It is the... You mean the apples? I think it's like monkey mind, basically. It's, you know, that there's an awareness of self and object. I think that's kind of what that represents. And it's not the same story as taking all the apples off the tree. But I'll look that up. I'm not sure. I used to know why they used that drawing. I think it has to do with appropriating objects. Consciousness is aware of something. So it's not just a blank...

[54:56]

But I will definitely, I'll look for that one. Or you can look for that one, too. Huh? Oh, the center. Yeah, the center. So what's in the center? The twin poisons are? Yeah. Three poison. The snake, the pig, and the rooster. Greed, hate, and delusions. So that's the pivot around which all of this the wheel of fortune spins, and you see the arrows going up and down? If you choose, so this is a choice point here. This whole thing is based on, this is just in the wheel of fortune like fate, and you're just a victim of your, you know, karma. Like, that's the way people understood karma in the 60s. Oh, yeah, it's just my karma. Like, yeah, well, it's just your karma is what you've been doing. And congratulations. So, your decisions around these things Here, basically at feelings, what you decide to do when you have a feeling, if you decide to respond in hate or in lust, greed, hate, and delusion, if you're greedy, try to grab it.

[56:08]

If you're hateful, you try to kill it. You will then be born into one of these lower realms. So these are consequences. So the wheel spins, and where you go from there is either, depending on the arrow goes up, meaning you make good choices, wholesome choices, And then you're in one of the three top realms, which are better. The three lower realms are not better. And, of course, hell being the worst. Hungry ghosts, I think we all... These are all states of mind, and we all know them all. We have all been... I don't ever get enough of what I need. I'm deprived. You know, woe is me. So that's hungry ghosts. Animals are kind of like sex, drugs, and rock and roll. You don't care about consequences. You want it, you get it. You take whatever you want, you know. And hell is, you know, obvious. It's just horrible. In hell, you can't do anything for yourself. You are like, you are oppressed.

[57:12]

The only virtue in hell is, what? You drop your sets or you go to hell. But thank God the soku comes along and rescues you from hell. Maybe. Eventually. But hell, that's exactly right. Hell, people come to help you. That's the virtue of hell. People will try to come and lift you up. And we see that. We're all trying to lift suffering beings up among our friends. We want to lift them up. We don't want them to be in hell. For the top three choices, fighting gods are basically trying to get into heaven. stockbrokers, ambitious people are working. They want to go to heaven. They're going to do anything. They're ambition. And there's a picture. You see the picture of him cutting down the tree? So there's a tree fruiting in heaven, and the guy fighting demons is cutting it down. They're jealous. You can't have that tree.

[58:13]

We're going to make lumber out of that tree and sell it for a lot of money. Yeah. Fighting, fighting. There's a lot of fighting going on right now in our sacred domain. So the gods have got it all. They won the lottery. Some guy just won a billion dollars. So they won the lottery. Somebody else got $26 million. He spent it all and started stealing because he spent it all. So it's not a great situation, the gods, because it's impermanent. You get old. Even the gods get old. And then where do they go when they don't want to get old anymore? Straight to hell. So hell is the outcome for the gods when the god realm ends. So where's the only realm that you want to be in? Human. That's right. Definitely human. Go us.

[59:18]

Yeah. Human realm. Not too hot, not too cold, not too good, not too bad. You know, so you've got a chance. You can move. You can learn. You can understand. You can make mistakes and then you can correct them and so on and so forth. Okay. Yes. Yes. Yes, there is. But that's right. That's the guy singing. He's got a little ukulele there. You see the picture? Each one of them has a little Buddha singing the song. So they're singing, it won't last long in hell, and then, you know. Why, a poop? Where? Oh, that's my best drawing I could do of a Bodhisattva. It does look like the poop emoji. Thanks a lot. All right.

[60:20]

I used to like you people, but I'm changing my mind. I can take you or leave you. All right. Buddha poop. Yeah, Buddha's poop. You didn't? What'd you say? Oh, thank you. Thank you, Leslie. You're on my good list. Leslie's on the good list now. Okay, the core of this formula is that all phenomena arise in dependence upon other phenomena. That is the core point. Everything is independence. Dependent core arising. Nothing exists independently. What's the problem with dharmas? Yes, that's the problem. It's even built in their own story. How can you both be independent and also independent? There's a little bit of a problem with this way of going. They spent a lot of time on that thing, given what a problem it was. That's in December.

[61:31]

You guys are going to have your November, your December. Okay. All right. We're going to go all together now. You guys read ahead. I know you did. Mr. November and Mr. December. Phenomena. Does everybody know what a phenomena is? I mean, if you really don't, it's okay. I asked this question a couple times. It's like hermeneutics. What is that? That was the joke that Muhammad told me. There's three philosophers talking and they're saying, does philosophy help you at all with getting ready for the end of life? And They're saying, no, not really. And one of them says, no, no, it really helped me. And he said, well, how's that? Because I will never have to look up the word hermeneutics ever again. Same thing with phenomena. Phenomena are objects of a person's perceptions. In other words, what the senses and the mind notice. Phenomena exist.

[62:34]

From the Greek, thing appearing to view. Nomino, is that how you pronounce it? Nomino? Numina. Numina, on the other hand, are posited as objects or events that exist independent of human sense of perception. Okay? Among, like, God, among many philosophers through the ages, numina are suspected of being delusions. Like makyo. In our tradition, they're called makyo. A lot of people have what they think is kensho, and it's actually makyo. It's a fantasy that is just like, you know, seems to get stuck as though it is real, as though it really happened. And a very interesting sidebar, and then I'll stop, is that a very interesting thing about Makyo and Kensho and all of that, there seems to be some evidence that William James, Varieties of Religious Experience, back in the 19th century, wrote a book that was very popular in Japan because both...

[63:37]

Asia and Europe were having problems sustaining their religious traditions in the face of what? Science. So they were going down. There's no God. So they promoted experience, religious experience. So now you could be someone who had this amazing experience and both in Asia and they were telling each other that this is validating of what we do here. And it's still happening. It has a really interesting... Bob Scharf from UC Berkeley writes an article about that. Oh, that's very interesting. We think this is going way back. Kensho's fine, but it's just a way of kind of clearing the plate so that you can put some food on it. It's not like the plate... I have a plate, you know, that's not the point. So it's really part of the path as opposed to the goal or the point. But we don't know a lot.

[64:40]

We're really learning. Okay, the self problem. I really do need to stop because I think you guys need to go calm your minds and discern the real. Okay. I think the only other thing I wanted to bring up before we do the third turning is this concept of karma, which is really key to the Buddhist understanding. And karma means intended. You meant to do it. Karma is not accidents. Things that you do, you know, step on something, you didn't mean to do it, you know, you feel bad. That is not karma. There is no outcome from that. So karma are intentional actions and the consequences of those actions which are creating the vicious cycle called samsara. You meant to do it. You did it. You had a choice. But on what level of awareness? You knew it. You know it. Monks, I say karma is intention. Having intended, one does karma through body, speech, and mind.

[65:41]

Where there are deeds of body, speech, and mind, ananda, personal happiness and suffering arise as a consequence of the intention of those deeds. Still, nowhere in this pattern of causality can a self be found. So then the monk asks, the clever monk asks the Buddha, so then, who experiences the result of good or bad actions if there's nobody? Clever. And the Buddha says, the body does not belong to you, nor is it anyone else's. It should be regarded as the result... of former actions that have been constructed and intended and is now being experienced. That's what you are. You are the result of actions that were intended and that resulted in consequences that are now being experienced. So in a sense, I am what I have made of myself. What you are today comes from your thoughts, actions, and behavior of yesterday. Your present thought, actions, and behavior of today will create

[66:44]

who you are tomorrow. That's the Buddha's teaching, which is why there's hope, because we can choose. There's a pivot, right, in the present. Okay, and I already talked about the Abhidharma problematic. Where are they hiding all those things? So, what's called for as a result of this elaboration is a whole new model of mind, which was achieved in the Sandhinyamrshana Sutra. the sutra for untying the knots, the primary text of the Yogachara tradition, which is what we'll be looking at with the third turning of the wheel. Okay. All right. All right. Any questions before I... Enlightened. I told you. You want to be an arhat or you want to be a bodhisattva? You got to decide right now. If you want to be in our hut, go for it.

[67:45]

You can go wash your bowls. Yes, that's right. Just doing lightning behavior. Okay. Anybody else? Any questions? I think you sort of let us give this conclusion that this model is really problematic and maybe isn't the best model. And then that wasn't sitting well with me. And then I thought, like... In my mind, there's this impulse to... I sort of found myself reminding myself that, oh, this is turning 1.5. Abhidharma came after the suttas, right? There's the sutta pitika, and the three baskets. Abhidharma is a systematization attempt to get, like, after the Buddha was gone... These monks were sitting around going, well, what did he mean? And they tried to make a system out of what wasn't necessarily systematic.

[68:48]

But what was in the suttas, though? What was in the suttas? They didn't go for other material. They were using what he said. Well, and then commentaries and commentaries and commentaries and things like that. And so there's just this impulse in my mind to say, like, well, yeah, this is problematic, but the first first turning, the sutta pitika is more like... pragmatic and phenomenological, like less top-heavy. And that gave me a sense of like, I like the suttas more than I like the Abhidhamma. I just wanted to offer that. I was like, don't let the the kludginess of Abhidhamma turn us off from the very pragmatic psychological I did not intend to do so. The suttas are fine. Everyone cites the suttas. Everybody. Everyone goes to the Middle Way, Four Noble Truths. You don't talk in the Buddhist tradition if you're not referring to the suttas.

[69:51]

The problem is the Abhidharma system. These dharmas. Even though the Buddha said some stuff about it that led them to create the system... You know, he also taught provisional teachings. He also taught, you know, definitive teachings. And there was an effort to try and figure out which of those it was, and they landed on this system. That's the problematic. Not the first turning of the suttas, but of this Abhidharma. So I hope I didn't leave people to dislike the suttas, because I don't dislike them either. It's also a part of the religion profession. Huh? Yeah. Yeah. Right. Any of our academies or other branches of knowledge are very specialized in funding. Right. Yeah. [...] Well, I hear, and you probably know.

[70:54]

that the universities were made up of specialists, that there were chanters, there were sitters, there were memorizers, there were Abhidharma specialists, there were those who wrote, those who worked in the fields. There were thousands of monks, and so they weren't all doing all of this, like you said, like a university. It was a university. So putting it all together, we're looking at something that we can kind of assemble in a certain way, but I don't think any of them ever had access to the whole range of practices and thoughts and so on. I'm going to say about what you said. Oh, next time I'm going to start with there's three kinds of knowledge. So you're talking about, you know, mundane knowledge is the kind we all have. Just what we're using. That's the upside down views. Super mundane knowledge is where we practice and that's in the systems with these systems. The relative truth. We practice in the relative world. We have to. The Prajnaparamita, the ultimate truth, you can't practice there.

[71:59]

And that's the one that shows up in the second turning. But the access channel is the first turning. The relative, we have to practice there, but we don't awaken there. We awaken in the emptiness teachings. So I was going to save that for next time, but you got me. So anyway, I think this is a really good question and a good point. Tim? I'm wondering if there's any relationship between if you look at both the there's the realms and the twelve fold and they're in particular places I was wondering if there's a reason for that I don't think so I think that's The rim is the sequence, and I think the rim can also, one person said, actually, one way to look at it is if you cut that up and folded it like an origami, that actually what's going on is more like something going through simultaneously.

[73:08]

It's not really, this is a theoretical model. It's not how we experience it. It's much more like, you know, so this is deceptive in a certain way, because we don't, I don't go through the 12. I don't get the feelings by going through birth and karmic affirmation, except in that sense that, yeah, I do, but I'm not consciously experiencing that. But no, I don't think... I think the outcome is basically the rebirth. You're reborn in one of these realms based on the decisions and behaviors that you made. Right here. This is the place where your destiny is now set. And then... destinies. Yeah, they're just called destinies. It's like you just bought a ticket to the hungry ghosts. Yeah, so this is super mundane knowledge, Jeff. So this one is called super mundane knowledge.

[74:10]

And then there's Prasna Paramitas, the next kind of knowledge. I'm curious about what he said. those actions make up what we think of as a self. But I'm wondering about the unconscious and the kind of accidental stuff that seems to ultimately make up a self. Well, when we get to the Yogacara, that's being carried along in an unconscious bag called the Alaya. So your conditioning has come from your past and it's carried in this unconscious realm. You know, modern-day psychological theory is the same thing. Most of what you are and know you're not conscious of right now, right? It couldn't be. So it's sprouting from where? So that's another theory. It's sprouting from this unconscious thing, which is where all the troubles are brewing, but also where the liberation is possible.

[75:12]

So there's good stuff in there, and there's not good stuff in there. And we know, because it comes up. And then it's like, where'd that come from? from your past conditioning. Like racism, it's coming from our conditioning. So how do we decondition? We have to hit it when it arises and change the conditioning and then plant a new seed. And that's the whole yogachara model of the mind. Which is hopeful. I think it's the most hopeful of the systems of all. I've become kind of a yogacharan in my old age. Yeah, you too? Yeah, might as well. Yeah. I've been reading Greek Buddha. Oh, yeah. Uh-huh. There's kind of this whole scholastic discussion about whether any of this is actually the first teaching to the Buddha. Right. And kind of the thing that struck me the most is that the Buddhism that the Greeks experienced when they invaded India is they meditated on the three marks of existence.

[76:18]

And they did a form of yoga where they sat with pain for a long period. The Greeks did. Yeah. the Buddhists that the Greeks met in India. Uh-huh, uh-huh. So that is kind of the earliest form of Buddhism textually, you know? Uh-huh. Like the polycanon gained 500 years after those Greek texts. Interesting, interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. This kind of developed in India, but the oldest Buddhism came out of Pakistan. was focused on the three marks and about finding passion. Yeah, no, that's great. And I know that book. Actually, I haven't looked at it, but that's nice to know what's going on in there. Bob Scharf recommended that one, too. He said, well, it's this new book that's looking at some other stuff. But basically, none of it was hermetically sealed. The trade routes were moving around with books all over. It's kind of like now the Internet, you know.

[77:18]

Everybody had something that they were bringing with them, and it was mostly looked at as magic. because it was dangerous out there in the desert. So a lot of those monks were just good luck. So they'd bring along these monks with them for good luck, and they'd pray for them and all that. So the text came with them, and I think it's really interesting to see how that also the Greeks and whoever else, you know, Mormons were probably there too, you know. They got all over. They were all over the place. Yeah. Marxists are there. The Marxists are definitely there. Share your toys. This is a wonderful new discovery. It's a really old... Juratsky died in 1942, and the central conception of Buddhism is the Dharma theory. And this book is all about the dharmas. And most of it was really dry up until page 48 when he talks about dukkha as this commotion. And I thought, that is such a good way to see it, this restlessness.

[78:21]

I thought, I get that. And that the idea that the end of restlessness is rest. So I think we all, I mean, that's really easy to access for me as a kind of ongoing suffering, is this restlessness. Anyway, okay. That's it. Good. All right. You're welcome. Yes. I was just appreciating what Jeff was saying. I was just wondering, you know, if the Abidahma is responding to early polychaunic teachings, with formalization, and the Mahajanans responding with this sort of additional formalization is just deconstructing the previous formalization. I mean, would you say that the Mahajanans kind of find by this kind of academic deconstructed sort of systematizing thing as opposed to, like, how much of our tradition is actually there's like an academic argument amongst men? All of it. Men arguing with each other. It's still about suffering, though.

[79:23]

Yeah, well, they were suffering by arguing. It's one of the things they did was they argued their points of what was the end of suffering or what was the cause of suffering and came up with these elaborate formulations among their university scholars. The second turning was also about ending suffering. Like, this isn't working. You're fighting over this. You're not ending your suffering by this. But does the second turning work? Well, no, what I'm saying is that was an argument. Does the second turning work? Does it? Does it? Does it not? Everyone gets to vote. Is it working for you? Who's it working for? Not a hand. What is the additional counter-suffering in the Heart Sutra? That there's no suffering. That's right. But is that helpful? I find it extremely helpful.

[80:25]

How do you train in no suffering? How do you train in it? No whining. I'm talking about me. I'm not talking about you. I need to look at my behaviors and how I'm falling for stuff. If I'm imagining something is true, I get really upset. And if I don't think so, I go, wait a minute. I'm just thinking that. Is it true? Is that really happening the way I'm thinking? I mean, it's extremely helpful to me. And again, I'm just talking about me. What? Is that a whine or is that like, oh, there's actually some delusion that needs to be dismantled? Well, suffering means probably you don't like it. When I say whining, I mean it's an objectionable thing to be suffering. If you liked it, well, there's no need to do anything, right? But we don't like it. That's why we're motivated. We don't like it. So help me. What can I do? Well, you can study.

[81:27]

That gives you some distance, keeps you busy. And I once said to Reb, you know, is this fast enough? How's this going to save the world? And he said, well, save it from you. So we're busy doing these practices. We're busy kind of not exactly distracting ourselves, but committing ourselves to some way of thinking and some way of behaving. that actually in the long run I think went better for me than the way I was figuring it out. So I just think this is a, you know, we get to decide, does this help you? Does it help you to hear no suffering? Well, you get to say. You get to say. I can't tell you that. And there's masses of people arguing whether it does or doesn't. So these are traditions, you know, and the monks all lived together. These early monks were living with the Mahayana monks. So they were going to each other's rooms and saying, well, that's not what I see. Well, that's not what I see. And then, well, let's try it in the Zendo and see who comes up with some relief.

[82:30]

So, and then they passed it forward. Right, right. No exit. It's a no exit strategy. Yeah, I feel like I left no whining in the air there, and I didn't mean to imply any of you were doing that. I mean me. And when I'm complaining, when I'm getting caught up in my own objections to my own thinking, I feel like I'm just caught. It's just that... So it's up to each of us to make the call. Am I okay with how I am? Am I okay with how I'm feeling and how I respond to people and how I'm taking care of everybody? Or am I not? And then I get to look for medicine for myself. So, yeah. And I know that's more. There's more. Yeah. So let's keep asking.

[83:32]

Thank you for listening to this podcast offered by the San Francisco Zen Center. Our Dharma talks are offered free of charge, and this is made possible by the donations we receive. Your financial support helps us to continue to offer the Dharma. For more information, visit sfcc.org and click Giving.

[83:53]

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