that make for a very drainage on the black and our American speech and it's only what the inherent identifiable all the south speaks with a black accent so that what's the first appearance of what we're beginning to be aware of now you don't we were past the melting pot where everything was going to become a world person. That's often still on my mind. No, we turn around and find out that you can't melt away and simply take over and encompass all the different groups, but you become a compound and have to admit their presence. If I can get that across, the Especially here, where we have, in a very short period, the first part of the Tassajara beginning, because you enter in with land and an actual church, the first real hole in which you find out you have an American Buddhist there.

[01:23]

We've also got the beginnings of American voodoo, and that appearing very much outside of black community. Remember, if it's ethnic, okay. That's very different. That's like a small Japanese group continuing with their Japanese Buddhism, which is not yet an American Buddhism. Yet American Japanese can't have anything but American Buddhism when they have Buddhism. And that's part of this change. Pound, being of a generation I know only too well from my parents, a Watt generation, excluded from any possibility in their entire framework that the Jewish world was anything but an ethnic world. And yet the poet has to plunge it through. Passages of Leviticus become... absolutely primary in the chaos, okay, that's a wasp. I mean, all the Old Testament in the American experience just goes back to Massachusetts and the pure presumption that they are the truth, the Old Testament's truth.

[02:36]

The negative parts of town, the ones who scream kike and so forth, it's at that point, the most painful, the most negative, the most poisonous Well, let's picture it as a partner. Let's picture it in a body. He had no way for which the postulants not to rise and form an open wound, and a million other people walked around with no physical and physical. There is no passage in which, for instance, found that anti-sanitism doesn't arise, but what is... Fear and horror of shit doesn't arise in that same passage. And of syphilis. In his how to passages, great. So we're talking about fantasy. I mean, I don't picture with the man. Nothing about the man having syphilis. You might check it out. Maybe the doctor had found it at St. Elizabeth. But legions of the first thing he thinks of, and in metaphors, she was right. He strikes deeper than any other 20th century poet.

[03:38]

If it weren't for the canto, we would widely assume, and disastrously, that in the major American poetic consciousness, we never suffered like the Germans did from anything mysterious that showed up in the Bible. We're somewhat aware. Hitler wouldn't be aware. I mean, he's the straight legion. But a writer like Mann knew this must be more experienced than this. This must go deeper. And more than that, Mann knew this must go into European consciousness. Mann, since he was German, kept suspecting the German must be the one who brings this into European consciousness. And yet, think about today when Black is beautiful. Age is marvelous. But European mind is what we all, and we have a strong one in America, we want not to be the European mind. This is part of what we're going to be going back and talk about.

[04:41]

So let me read the passage here. Our Elkinor is, by the way, could be any of that little group that Pound experiences. killed in the First World War. I mean, it's underlined by how much he feels that. However, it's prophetic of it, because Pound is writing before the war with great deal of feeling of the dead, the followers of Odysseus who died. And that Pound, by the peace in Canada, Pound identifies himself with Odysseus, not just the Ulysses that you meet in Homer. candle. But since Pound was a devout reader of Dante, that Odysseus, in Pound's mind, met a man who was in hell because he had betrayed his men. Because he had betrayed his readers, he had led them astray. He had committed terrible troopers, but he had led all his readers into the troopers.

[05:43]

The despair of Pound over the candles themselves enters into the peasant cattle, deepens them. He knows he can't divide the one, just the one, or everything else in the farm. He feels he, in all the versions of it, he has an immediate human guilt, which he admitted to at one time, and at a marvelous time, with Allen Ginsberg visiting, and he said, well, my Dan, Dan DeSanatism, yeah, but his Dan DeSanatism, It's almost as necessary. Many people, other people, have the same damn tantalism that it must be a universal fact. My parents had it, but it never showed up. They thought it was pretty wicked to burn people in ovens. We're not really talking about that. It's something much deeper than burning. People think of a million reasons to burn people in ovens or fry up cities. It's done over and over and over again.

[06:44]

merrily. All you have to do is change the regime to three different religions, Taoist, Buddhist, and Confucian, and over and over again it's got enough of a habit going on. Whoever you name in the period of people burning, I think it's incidental to the burning. The death I'm talking about here is the death of a hatred that cannot find the nature of its infection and start naming it, and we find tons of it. But he also felt, though, he was still in the poem he didn't know the shape of, the same one he'd walked himself out on, and was some part of a tribute. What he did do find, so let's picture him not only going back to find almost the shape of the voyage he has to take in the poem, and he returns to this. The first Elpenor came, our friend Elpenor, unburied, cast from the wide earth, limbs that we left in the house of Kierke, unwept, unwrapped, and sepulchred, till toil urged other pitiful spirits.

[08:06]

And I cried in hurried speech, Elpenor, how art thou come to this dark coast? Camest thou a foot of stripping semen, and he in heavy speech, ill-faced and abundant wine, I slept in Circe's anvil. Going down the long ladder, unguarded, I fell against the buttress, shattered the nape nerve, the sole thought of earnest. The foul king, I bid remember me, unwept, unburied. He put my arms, feet tuned by seaboard, and inscribed, a man of no fortune with a name to come, and set my oar up that I swung mid-fellow. And I declared a game, whom I beat off, and then Teresa saved us. Theban, holding his golden wand, knew me and spoke first. A second time, why, man of ill star, facing the son of the dead in this joyous region, stand in front of the sponsor, leave me my bloody bezel for soup's sake. And I stepped back, and he, strong with the blood, said then, Odysseus shall return to spiteful Neptune over dark sea, lose all companions.

[09:15]

Then I declare, okay, like Wyatt Phoebus, I mean that as Andrea Phoebus, you know, Christina Weller, 1538, out of Homer, and he sailed. So that's the moment that you will see when we come to Cordello, of like Wyatt, where he's talking about Shelley. It comes again in the poem. When we read essays that present cases like this, we've got to be returning these passages. So this is almost an opening for what we'll return to in full and relate it back and forth when we come to the 9th of March. But when these are presented in papers, and I find them all helpful by scholars, if we unwind some of these things and show it these letters, always makes it look as if somebody reading had picked up something that entered either of the pieces of the jigsaw puzzle, fitting absolutely, and fit it in. They look at the scholar's findings.

[10:19]

The scholar researches and feels very excited because, in a funny way, the scholar comes into tune always at such time with the poet. searching again where you all where you had been many times so you are essentially researching or you would searching again where where your tribe i'm called the tribe where you tried to have been many times so you're researching the scholars doing the same thing looking through all material He knows it's been looked through over and over and over again, and he finds the things that belong to what he experiences as his thesis. I'm talking about the very best of it. When you come to the level at which a scholar emerges, in my mind, at exactly the level of a poetic, creative scholar, with probably very few such books, Lowe's Road to Sanity is a great example. There, it's pure search, pure research search.

[11:23]

There is a kind of thesis, but it launches almost like launching out of the void to be pond. And it becomes more and more intricate in this sense of growing excitement through about the material of the pond. And so we're palming, and at the end of it, Because that was something that meant that in writing the poem, something we know is not true, that in writing the poem Xanadu, Coleridge had been to all these libraries. Yes, but he had universally been through much more reading than would be apparent there. And experience that reading is what part of my I want to get across there in a way, and of course I'm going back, but it's my own experience. Experience in that reading at times when things were experienced read in such a state of confusion you didn't know whether you read them or whether they were experienced somewhere else.

[12:42]

They were so immediate to you. Now remember, a scholar in researching is engrossed lost in what he's reading, and his intellectual attention is to at once be lost in what he's reading. Come up and tap him on the shoulder, he doesn't feel attacked. He's consequently in peril. Any animal who becomes engrossed with something is in very great danger indeed. The scholar built in his engrossment, leaving the book, will walk in front of a car they have and be knocked out of the car. Then we have dead cars. So will the . A couple of them will in the middle of a composition with that still in their mind, engrossed in that composition. This is not a death instinct. Life and death don't even signify. They simply are totally engrossed in what they were. working. And that's the immediate reality.

[13:45]

And all the ones that you would think of as biologically more important aren't. They're simply not present. I guess from that aspect of engrossment and an idea of research, I want to turn to the main matter today, which is the business of how mentors relate to what appears as their material and tradition and naming of it and the strength and changeover. We're engaged in all modern poetry I think at first level with a world that has to do with reading, writing, writing, reading. And back at that Some early immediacy that voices heard and stories heard and bits and poems, however that goes, but I think kind of the voice is heard and must be a matter of temperament.

[15:03]

and the tempering up and up. This is getting moved toward the art, the temperament toward the language itself and toward events that take place in language. It's seeming to have an ultimate reality to be revealing something. And at the same time, however, emerging in an atmosphere of enchantment, in an atmosphere of being the storyteller. I think, all right, I'm following my own feeling here. Where was it? People telling stories, I think, majorly, which were probably just family stories, ghost stories, great stories. My constant body in my poetry that moves around the matter of the supernatural or the occult. Although we beg the children to see a ghost, knock on wood once or twice, the greatest ghosts of all, for sure, were the ones that were in stories or occurred in poems.

[16:14]

and with most intense visitations or . But coming to the poem was a long journey through earlier times in which elements that belonged to the poem were drowned in the society throughout. And one of them certainly was music. And while in the speech, speech had the attraction many of the attractions of music it was not yet a design music so that the first time you heard it even i'm trying to think now people reciting poetry or reading poetry aloud uh it it's first experience with what a strange heightening and total change, other kind of speed, otherness, an entirely other world coming forward, and yet what was in that world was not yet a significant thing. There was some kind of speaking of that order.

[17:20]

What was not there at all was an idea that there was a tradition, because what had taken its place because I was not a poet. I think poets are more fortunate than painters. Painters often study in studios with other painters. In most of the history of painting, they study in the studio of a great painter, and they learn the techniques of the great painter, and then if they are painters themselves, have to go through a kind of insult to what they've learned in order to arrive at their own technique. What's not understood about technique is that while there are some basic things that you learn outside of the basic things in technique, gaining another person's technique has to be de-gained, because you have got something you've got to do. It's a great understanding in the modern world, because Pound made it new, was that Pound had such an aptitude and love of being like something. Those of you who know my work know entirely what I'm talking about, because I have not shared any of my being like something yet.

[18:29]

Certainly, I had to come to a voice that was mine. And to do that, I had to undo what I had picked up monkey-wise by an aptitude. In other words, I learned, your tricks, isn't it exactly? And when we come to Robert Brown, one of the first things we'll see is one of the greatest archival dodgers of all time. Your quirks and tricks, that's what Pounder picked up and loved to pick up from people. I get exactly that phrase, so write for this. But say I want to. Say I take your whole bag of tricks, let in your quirks and tweaks, and say that they're an art form. It is rather brownie incest that talks about tricks. In Sardella, we'll talk about tricks. with the things you learn.

[19:32]

And it's trips that Serdella finds that are going to remove him from Shelley, from the sublime language of Shelley, although he could come to the language of Robert Brownlee, even though he didn't have any danger of writing that film. How do you get out from that commanding speech? In painting over and over again, Giotto having to disown, hate, Giotto was accused of a kind of blasphemy in painting, of hating the preceding painting, because it made such a drastic change in painting that while the Italians thought of him as a genius, they experienced him as being blasphemous, not related to religion, but related to the great painting of the Byzantine division. He broke the traditional painting and made an individual file. But he had to break and disown his master, with whom he studied And Tegumi owed everything, supposedly, in technique.

[20:33]

And the minute he started doing things that were not that technique, nothing he could have learned there, he was also discarding what he had learned there. Poets have a very different route. They do not study with other poets. They find their poetry, and certainly had a great advantage in that. This is not, however, true of the Cordell. It's sent the written, printed poem that poets at this street. And we find almost no poet to study with other poets. So we come to the abominations of the Barclay, which have workshops. I'm looking at Mike McClure. And Mike McClure's third poem, Passages, oddly enough, I swiped the title for a poem, a series of poems of mine, fairly well-known. And that's nothing that Mike Stole a lot of meat.

[21:33]

But he, meanwhile, wrote like a model member of Brian's workshop. In other words, he wrote, in fact, very much involved with the technical problems that I had at that time, writing letters. I wasn't going to write like that forever, and they had another meeting in my direction. But verifiably, all you got when you went to a workshop were the problems that the person you're studying with had at the time. And they were pretty convincing. I mean, how do you phrase it this way? Meanwhile, any student could phrase it faster than I could. They didn't have the difficulties. One of the things you learn when you're When you're supposedly directing a workshop, is that any smart person sitting out there can see your problem. They don't have your problem. They can sit like a doctor and say, you do it this way. I mean, you're the victim. You're the one with the damn problem, which is the different part. That's the difficulty of a workshop.

[22:34]

But before this point, there are no workshops. And that's not how it goes. So they bond. They can still be, however, so wanted by Shelley that it's hard to... So they will be convinced by a powerful... We have another step, and growing up in my family is that they were educated, college educated, and while workshops are of somewhat late date, the thing we call English literature is also... I guess now, probably a century old. Before that, you didn't have English literature. You didn't go to college to read poems and novels and so forth. And if you'd walked up to Shelley and told him, man, you're terrific. You're going to have a work called Romanticism. And they're going to read to you, ma'am. And so don't worry. And why don't you go fretting around here? Fanny's going to be very embarrassed if she didn't say yes to you because there are going to be a million earnest girls reading over you.

[23:39]

They'll be reading you in high school. They'll even be reading you in eighth grade. They'll have left the Bible and bunion behind. and they won't carry Shakespeare around like you did. They'll take a course in it and pass it. I mean, they'll graduate from it. I love the puns, but they're part of what our education is. Most people graduate from poetry, and they pass the course. And even for us poor contemporaries, we get our money for the fact that we're presented in courses, and we forget that the people who take the courses do exactly that. They've graduated from homes we don't even get to graduate from. We're still struggling with what went on in them. They just qualified 10 times over. So let's picture another thing. This is so incidental, and yet, since it's happened, there it is. It's part of the world we're in. And most of you will have come into, and so did I in the 30s.

[24:40]

I came into Ford because it was already there in the 30s. I took freshman courses at Cal and survey courses. And then I guess into my sophomore year, I applied to the university anyway. But when I found myself in a survey course, And we came to Milton. I thought it was all right to come to Milton, but it's a survey port, man. And they were already on Shelley, and I was still on Milton when I could see, this is a float. I can't get off of this Milton cat. All of the other ports were pretty exciting. I couldn't shift gears. Nothing would go right. So you can't make a survey. I went back to history, where I was perfectly willing to survey and cover several countries if I wanted to. I covered the whole field. Now, poets before really found their lead searching a literature. Milton's the first one to propose literature.

[25:43]

Even this is a short historical period, this period of reading and the period of the middle class I'm talking about. I think you went on stage and the business of reading these plays and so forth, reading is still in the reading world, but many of the books existed in the manuscript handed around. And would be like a contemporary poem at the mimeograph pamphlet level. This world continues. continued. But the one we draw on today that's deceptively a counterpart of one that poets had to have was the naming of the poet that poets do over and over again. It's absolutely, well, let's go back to Milton's one where Milton's sureness at Spencer is his predecessor would be a good example of it, but Milton's already setting up a literature. he has to sell to a Protestant parliament that the state government can come in and do what King used to do and have poets honor them.

[26:55]

And it wasn't very convincing, and rightly, for a bunch of London merchants to decide that England was going to have a treasury in poetry. King had a personal treasury in the fact that the Tudors had a personal treasury in the fact that shaker and spencer and so forth to glorify a realm but it's very hard to sell to a parliament that's just throwing kings out uh that they need glory when what they really want are their profits it's a fruitless battle across the whole era and and so a much larger con job the poets essentially built in their minds what a king was. They could draw on quite a lot. The whole Bible could feed what a king was and, of course, create what a king and a queen did, the prince, and so forth. There are entities, as a matter of fact, in poetry. Poetry has had a much harder picture aligning itself with the terms that it did align itself with.

[28:00]

Traitor. That was still part of what the king had, those things that the king had that the parliament took over. The thought is, is it worth my time? What does it profit you if you do so-and-so or questions that are accusations to poetry? As a matter of fact, the minute you ask that question, If you run the director, the senator knows and the congressman knows that they're not going to be very involved. It doesn't profit their time to have somebody out there scribbling about the leaguer. This is the joke of broad history, but they are also inhabiting terms. The bleakness of this, the uneasiness of the poets' alliance, but mine, meanwhile, is not allied with this class. Strikingly, the poetry of our time comes with very few exceptions, only from that same middle class, only from the bourgeoisie. In England, it breaks down so that it's outside of the London complex.

[29:08]

Somebody does not belong to, I don't think the bourgeoisie being a person living bourgeois, living in the city of London and the city of, and then, and aligns with the industrial city, but growing up in that whole framework, the one that's, it's described, for instance, economically in capitalism, this economy that allows it, that is bourgeois, And I think I'm right that only in our time, Gregory Corso's are, at least in the generation, well, the only lumpen proletariat, he's a lumpen proletariat, not proletariat. Well, I'm all graduate from Columbia and so forth, but we've already entered, I would think, middle class consciousness of its own discomforts. Yet, what's What I'm getting at here is within this middle class that a strange counterpart comes of the poet's feeling of belonging to a community in time.

[30:15]

And what is raved is a thing called liturgy. Long before it's taught in school, the middle class educates itself and gains a culture. And you can hear Milton addressing the parliament and convincing them that England must have a pride in its literature and that that parliament will then be able to hold its own with kings and queens in Europe because their English literature will guarantee them where before their king with all the attributes. Same problems with architecture, same problems with the beauty of the city. And all of them have to do with the court and with courtliness, by the way. The problem in religion where great cathedrals are built, wealthy orders like Franciscans built up great abbeys and so forth. And the other part of the religious world that wants no such show, well, we're talking about the show world in good part.

[31:17]

We're not talking about the fact that poets could eat or not, but the fact that they've that almost poetry has kept in this ambience. But it itself aligns itself with the show, with grandeur, with the whole series. And since I still do, I'm going to be talking from that. But I will bring into question certain things of grandeur, of enchantment, things that belong to the world of a hierarchical order, of the feudal order, preceding the that the cat was ordered and that they can be called ghosts if a cat was ordered. and the ghost story at the end of the 19th century, the place in the 18th century and through the 19th century, is very much how important the ghosts of preceding orders, ancient ones, are disturbing all of Europe. The fact that Marx is a specter is fine in Europe.

[32:19]

It is exactly the same thing that Eliot has with something... coming up on the ground and terrorizing with very world marks and solidly bourgeois consciousness to be able to go. When you come to the working class, all it had to do was get unions, and it got a slice of the pie. It ain't got no go. I mean, you can't tell them about specters. There's nothing spectral at all. They vote 1,000% for the 9th war, and if you keep on making arguments, they got it made. And especially if you don't open up unions, some more people get in under their umbrella. They're doing all right. All right, the middle class is the one who makes the picture of the literature. But the literature is the counterpart of the tradition. And the tradition has to do with the variety of what poetry is. And here I would go to the Darwinian principle in which the greatest variety means there's an instinct to know that the greatest variety

[33:24]

the open possibility of the continuance of an art. It is as simple as the fact that if we do not have a great variety that we can call upon, all right, a Robert Duncan beginning, if he faced five authors, he would have been shit out of luck if there hadn't been something there that would be appropriate to his spirit. And only by opening all the way across time And by opening a great community, some of which, by the way, so we have to look at more than masterpieces. If we look only at masterpieces and masters who arrived at times when Everything seems to feed their spirit, and luckily greatness is easy. We have no great poet at all in the 20th century. You don't want to take Yeats and say great in the sense of Goethe or Shakespeare. So we don't have to worry. We don't have to be in this territory. I think possibly of being great, great doesn't signify.

[34:25]

If we had only great, we would be, as Darwin observes it, that's like if the poor horses had only great race-winning horses or a great percheron carrying huge loads, they wouldn't have anything like the variety of possibilities. And that you're working with need and an art of a variety of possibilities for any individual soul to find their language. And that often means that the most valuable poetry may be 500 totally blah street poems written, which have the only, just a faint suggestion of what would you take hold on. Because faint suggestions are quite enough for the feeling of a courage. They still won't be the art that's needed. But out of them grow, almost with amazing swiftness, just as in evolution, the faintest shift in a species, out of that will grow sudden possibility.

[35:28]

And this is the perspective I have about tradition. So in the tradition, what do we talk about when we talk about great? In our English language tradition, I think in poetry, I think of character really all along in my mind. That's because within that, there's such a variety that there seems to me, I do not feel that it's unique that I find me most there, because I turn poet after poet after poet who finds it. And yet, he won't cover all occasions. Anyway, he won't answer to all of them. And that's quite fun enough. That's what he finds, right? Another one, certainly another symptom, it seems to me, is the variety. And almost the cataclysm of the variety. But what is the other experience brought down? Robert Browning was not going to be. He's the one who got me started and where the excitement of what it might be to be a poet opened up.

[36:32]

I could have a voice. And I realized in high school I was looking for something that would be more me than I was. And I would still be doing that. As a matter of fact, what I was, the curious thing of self, of ego, neither of them pertinent to this, a voice that would be more medium, I think, wouldn't it? Nothing in between, nothing in between at all. That direct, finally, and hints of it were right there in Robert Browning, in the fact that that you could speak as a bishop ordering his tomb and be more you than you were, and in no way were you this bishop. It's a dangerous point at this point because the actor we think of as a person trying to find himself. And in the 30s, first part of the century, there was a great deal of writing about wasn't the artist looking for his identity or her identity.

[37:39]

I'm not talking about this at all. There was too much Robert Duncan around all the time, although it's perfectly clear he did all sorts of cracking, trying to arrive at a non-identity identity or whatever that would not get in his way. And yet, and very much a question was if it was something more true. I still think the media to some intuition about a potentiality, and this potentiality was not a potentiality at first. First of all, it's a potentiality of a poetry, and so right away the poet, the one who was on his way already, her way already toward poetry, It has a thing that's hard to explain to the others reading poetry, because they draw many things from poetry, but one thing they haven't drawn is the necessity yet of writing one. My experience of Robert Browning was not yet, and my getting turned on by Robert Browning, was not yet at all the one of finding out much about what Robert Browning, what was there going on in the poems of Robert Browning.

[38:57]

Not much about the technique. It was an immediate draw toward a potential. And in time, shaping and reshaping, and in my own experience that goes on all the time, pictures began to emerge of poets that I drew on. But before I want to go into the complex, in that one I would be like Powell. or into the very firm picture of the tradition, I want to take a poet where it seems to be quite simple. I think I'd write, the Keats is carrying Shakespeare, used Shakespeare even to write letters, would write letters, all in quotes from Shakespeare, as the 19th century wrote letters, all in quotes from the Bible, or all in quotes from Bunyan's Children's Progress, a book which I read, I guess about a 10 or 11, and it all my life read over and over again, although I do not write letters and books for Pilgrim's Progress.

[39:58]

But it has that kind of mold. And one old man in the Moonstone, I think it is, that you could find, they're faced with a murder, and he goes to Pilgrim's Progress and opens it and draws a sword, points to a passage, and that'll answer the question. So you find everything in there. That actually is essentially the way a poet also felt about the poem when we come to a later stage about the content. The first one's not a promise of content. It's a promise of avoidance and immediacy and of a potentiality for speaking. Yet speech has found a source and also a kindred soul as a very sacred. And when we find a poet, When we find these scary Shakespeare, we know that something deeper, for instance, in my religion of Shakespeare, which is deep, lies in these.

[41:06]

It would be like when we hear of blood riding a millstone. And addressing himself entirely to the spirit of Milton and finding Milton as an anti-Blake, the Blake is deeply involved with Milton. So we have instances of a portrait deeply involved with another poet. And my involvement with Shakespeare comes with certain key people with Othello or persons of Othello. of the form for the cello. Not as far as I know with Hamlet, but with Prospero there, they are Well, I would have thought of them as identifications, but out of Australian world, I get something more important than that. They are eternal ones of the dream. You have dreamt the fly, you dreamt the poem, and the eternal ones return and become your ancestry.

[42:14]

They're your adopted ancestry. So let me return here to picture. In literature, you learn a literature of a country. And that isn't a model. A literature of a culture. And that's a model. The most positive sense of that is that it's a culture in the sense of an agriculture working the soil, fertilizing it, growing plants, and drawing upon its resources. And they become resources. But resources in a world of voices and persons and resources in poetry itself are also like you're drawing upon the print. But in the dreams that you have, they are yours personally. But the dreams across time, the one that's saying which would become also yours and would join the tribe that had the dream. And perhaps it's an aspect of my Protestant origin that it also assumes a moralistic character.

[43:19]

that when I feel a poem is ill-made or its occasion has been sacrificed to something other than the occasion of the poem or the poetry, I actually take a moral take on it. And for the double bind, morality is one of the major places where a poem gets ill-made. I mean, a poem addressed to a moral occasion is one of the first places where this moralist arises in wrath and then personalizes all situations so the poet gets to play. I'm hoping these explorations that we will be beyond outside and so forth in this framework. One of the great things we start with right away by starting out with the series called Beginning with Sardella. Starting out with Robert Browning, and maybe we'll venture into some other Victorians.

[44:26]

Chinese portrait today is not exotic at all. Ezra Pound first in Cathay, and then Dr. Whaley by imitating Cathay and calling it Chinese, and then Snyder by imitating Whaley and Pound and calling it Chinese. or Japanese and so forth, the way the author went to Japanese and did the same trick. They did such a convincing job that that's not exotic to us. As a matter of fact, we're over-convinced that an American and then an Englishman and then another American wrote all that stuff that probably the Chinese would be pretty disturbing to look at. because we know very well what it sounds like in American. However, when we come to Victorian poetry, that has been so closed off from our mind that the experience of reading it is exciting, and it is quite a turn to realize that we have gorgeous poetry in the Rhine, regular metered poems that are in Rudyard Kipling, that precede the stories in Rudyard Kipling's book, Peek-a-Pooks Hill.

[45:30]

Peek-a-Pooks. There's a lovely series you can run on that one. And I still don't have a temperament for Tennyson because it was read devoutly by my family. And I have various... As those who know my mother would be a poutneress, that's a disturbed enough relation to a mother. But my relation to the fact that my mother thought she was the Maiden of Shalott or something like that makes it, and that that particular mother would never appreciate it. The terrible mother that the unions worry about is nothing compared with the Lady of Shalott mother who was, who got minus, minus, minus points and makes it almost impossible to be Tennyson. I see flocks of mud coming in the window that look nothing like, that don't have the depth of depth psychology. Part of the joke of depth psychology, they don't know the terribleness of some of the inventions of the of that century. And there are a few. That shows me I must have the courage, actually, to read you. I will tell you the reveal at this point that I had excerpted from Sardello.

[46:35]

I had little pencil marks. They show me where to stop, because if I were to go one phrase more, I would be embarrassed. My appreciation would falter, and they usually falter over the appearance of some of these ladies who also occur in Robert Browning. I think we might as well encounter them since I've announced them and obviously soon we'll ruin ourselves in the first five minutes as we approach the question. So we're going to be launching off an adventure that involves both a sense of of how curious it is that poetry feels itself and addresses itself to be eternal. And how sharply we find ourselves turned away from what poetry proposes as its eternal moments.

[47:37]

This is part of what happens, luckily, at Nono Chian Liu, so I can take this venture out. But I'm certain from what poets do when they translate is that they move. All right, let me skip the Chinese because I was going to pay off Rexroth. Wait, he hasn't done the translation. Snyder, Rexroth, and back of that pound and Whaley. Whaley. Well, they're not poet bookers, but is the one who had good taste. So we must remember in this regard one simple motto. Luckily, our TV advertising has done it. A starkist doesn't want tuna with good taste. It wants tuna to taste good. And this quarrel in poetry is really quite a difficulty, because every period has a very severe sense of good taste and tastes good.

[48:44]

A pound raised in the 30s and then being a pound addict by the time I was 16 or 17, masturbation was considerable. It had greater permission, and it didn't have any permission in the 30s, than the simple inversion of a poetic line, which was much more disastrous than that. And so that the real gap in generations, for my parents, inversion of a line was OK. Isn't it lovely, inversion? Inverting itself at the turn. We came into a period where every kind of inversion was possibly great, except for inverting a poetic line. And we'll meet, in Robert Brown's Brownian syntax, we'll meet things that can be done in syntax only if you do compound inversion. amazing inversion, then you could not get the surface of the poem that does appear.

[49:48]

One, for instance, that is not reproduced in the poetry of our period. Another thing I must explain to anybody lingering who has the impression that sometimes I'm called erudite, but it would never qualify for teaching the poetry of the 20th century, because my being in history, not in in literature or in poetry, means that I've read only those poets that actually drew me or were attractive. And so in this first hour or quarter of a long takes, that's what I want to start up about. But I will open with reading the passage of Pannone's Cantos, because from this, if you get our starting off with Sordello, doesn't mean we're going to keep in the cantos. And as always in these lectures, I also will put gossip by and sage wisdom of moments.

[50:55]

Those of you who love looking for books, I must tell you this, if you're stuck in a town the size of St. Louis reading at a place and you discover one arriving there that you're reading to where, to an English department, not only that year, but the 10 years preceding and the 50 years following will never have anything to do with your poetry, and that you've actually been invited simply because one freak in the library who was head of it decided to buy your letters, or so forth, in a collection. You learn first how this is Mathewson, who went on to the Library of Congress, but was at George Washington University, and set up a policy in around 1960 and listed a list of some hundred poets that they would buy. And so they became an open market to buy at any price, and I was among those poets. A hundred poets are not so select. Maybe it was pitchy. Let's make me select. But it was still a lot of money, and... So I was there with poets I would never read and so forth.

[52:01]

And more than the libraries don't read, they decide to buy you. That's like, we will buy all the car models coming out this year or something on this time. You end up in this place. Well, by that time, I already knew if you're going to go to a place like St. Louis and be there for a week or something in the middle of a festival, you hope somebody has asked you because you go hoping that they believe me. that someone, maybe two people or something like that, are concerned about the poetry. But you also know by that time that if you don't write ahead of time, you don't get to see anything else because they have overall cocktail parties. Well, I knew I wanted to see the zoo because they've got that great program on TV where they had a thing with two wild animals or whatever, and so I said I wanted to see the zoo. So I did get to see the zoo. St. Louis is great. I got nothing with St. Louis City. But one of the things along the line, to pay back for the fact that I landed in a place where not one person knew a lot about it, and they were looking even more than puzzled.

[53:09]

I don't think I did a great job of promoting what it was going to be. It didn't feel like it. the 1,000 new readers, was I asked, do you have a book shop or any large book shop? And they took me to a huge, dusty, old book shop. And I look at it and was hopeless. I look at a couple of shelves. I look at them and jump. They're not arranged in any portrait at all, like poetry's not under portrait or anything. It was just arranged by when the book came into play, 1960 we're at. So I went through the whole thing. And what I found, I mean, I said, I want to be here all day. I did an insane thing. I had to go volume by volume. And this is an almost clean mint copy of Lustre by Ezra Pound. That's what I found. At the end of about six hours of going volume by volume, it does stand out when you reach its shell. Because that, yeah, but you really had to look, I think it's sitting next to a cookbook and several books on geology and so forth, was sitting this.

[54:16]

Well, I paid $15 for it. It has first edition $15. That was even in 1960. That was not its price. But it gives me then, next door to having a copy of Poetry Magazine, it was in this volume that This book came out in 1917 or 18, just before this one, this battered. This is the book you can throw at this night. It won a Young Poet. . Regardless of their pristine, this is a middle-aged old poet. It's very different. It even has a little jacket on it already to keep it clean. This is what you do when you hitchhike with a body. And this is what you do when you're so eager that you paste into the body, but not too good. No, this isn't pasted in. This one is because I had another disaster with another pound. thing, but this is the contemporary article on as being arrested. This one I put in that way, which helps.

[55:21]

But I've got another volume where I pasted just a snotty article by time magnifying into the volume like I wanted to remember forever the curse of people who wrote that kind of thing. My signature helps a little, but not the condition of the volume. Moment, please. Listen. But I was coming closer to home. This is how the cantos began, and we are starting out with Siddello with that as a key. And so I'll read you this opening canto. So we start out with some poetry. I better go to this volume. It's the same text. If I didn't cut the pages in this one, why? And I'm only reading it in this. Okay. But it starts with a different title. Three Candles of a Palm of Sunlight. That's just what the candle's word sounds like.

[56:23]

Remember, at the end, he just calls it candles. But he had, at the point when he called them Three Candles of a Palm of Sunlight, There's a letter that he writes to his father. Pound was very close to his mother and father. These are important clues. They were close to him all the time, just as Henry James's parents were close to him. And at the end at Rapallo, the two parents were living in Rapallo. And the mother, as I remember, survives after Pound is arrested and brought back to St. Elizabeth's. They read and were eager readers of his poetry, puzzled supporters, and his letters to them tell more about where his mind was. He writes with great excitement to his father and says, I have written three ghettos of a poem of some way, and I don't know what's going on in the poem.

[57:25]

And he realized that he had, for the first time perhaps, Because we don't have this picture of other poems, if you picture Homer, the great controversy about is there a Homer is that it's perfectly apparent that Homer is inhabiting a matter that had grown up over centuries. And when the Homer began to tell the Iliad and the Odyssey, he was not in an unknown poem of some length. He knew what he had to tell. There is no doubt about it, and we may get into that because it's a place where there's a great disagreement between poetry and the theorists of certain schools of folklore and so forth who pay attention to folklore and believe that these elements are what make it. Homer leaves his mark everywhere. There's every evidence that there's a Homer. That was the disaster that hit the epic material.

[58:28]

And we've got Herodotus. Plato and Euripides all object that Homer lied, but the law or had told it so wrong, Herodotus insists that it's wrong as history, Euripides insists that it's wrong as something, and Plato gives away more of the joke and he insists that it's wrong about the myth itself. What had happened to the myth is a portrait, not myth. What had happened to the religion, because there is a religion back a part of it, you begin to realize that The story of Helen in the Iliad is bound up with things that were learned in the mysteries about Helen that no one could speak of, but what the Helen was. Helen existed very much like the coexistence of Jesus and Christos in the Christian religion, both as an historical person in the minds of the Greek and a history that hardly took place. We don't have a very easy time at the place where Christ is in history, because no divine persons fit in what is history.

[59:40]

And yet, there's a suspicion, rightly, they must have their historical occasion. It's nice here, because we can't locate Homer in history, and can't find his historical occasion. But the evidence of the fifth century, sixth century, that they felt Homer had at blight mean that he had made up something in the place of the sacred history. When a poet happens to sacred history, the whole thing changes because creative matters and it becomes original all over again. It re-originates itself. And the great fear in religion and the great fear in myth in telling your story of what happened, is that a creative person may arrive and then they tell the story wrong. And part of what I want to talk about in this hour is this, has something to do with the tradition, keeping alive a spiritual identity through time, and the advent of the creative within it, which the smallest creation, by the way, gets it wrong.

[60:50]

It's our first sensation about a poem is that that They're likely to get wrong, the material, or they tell it wrong. Did it really happen that way? One of the other danger signs is the poet, the would-be poet, will say, but I really felt that. And the poem will somehow not have ever created it. We're robbed of our occasion when we really felt something and consequently don't create it. This is part of what I will be returning to again and again about the creative. We are going to be dealing with the creative. It is very different indeed from the true. The creative world has its own sense of a truth and will be offensive to almost any other sense of the truth. Well, let's go back to our pounds.

[61:52]

And that he launches himself. In that letter to the Father and my sense right away of the excitement and the cannabis himself when I began, certainly not understanding anything. If I'd only known then that Mr. Brown hadn't understood what they were. I might have felt a little more reassured, but I didn't actually feel that I was getting them wrong when I didn't understand what they were about at all. I was riding in excitement, and nothing had appeared to me before in poetry that seemed such an open experience to ride in excitement. Now, at the time that I looked at the cantos first, I read the opening line that the cantos have when pound tackled the question again and rearranged them and arrived at the final one, and then went down to the ship, set, keeled the breakers forth on the godly sea, and we set up mast and sail on that swart ship, bore sheep, abhorred her, and our bodies all so heavy with weeping.

[63:02]

Those lines, when I read them first, standing in a bookshop looking at them, seemed overwhelming. I could not bear it. It was not something I didn't know, but I couldn't bear the impact of it. I can remember it only too well, a physical pain of apprehension. Something at that age, I had just arrived at college. Oh, I had been there one term, so I must have been already then. It would be... 1870 or 18, something like that. A blue stocking. I appreciate blue stockings all my life. A lady blue stocking whose poem I had been the only freshman editor on the Occident, and I found I was the only one voting for a poem. All the rest were no, no, no.

[64:02]

So I asked if I could return the poem, and that one, Louise Antoinette, Christ, who looked exactly like a Dresden doll and was the most, I have not met a more severe blue stocking since. And Trey, overwhelmed, I'm not sure what was the mood, reproved reproved for my possible admiration, I was immediately initiated to the, in about two days, the existence of transition massively to the work of Gertrude Stein because Louise Antoinette Krauss's male adjunct, it can be called a concubine, I mean in no sense was she his, he was entirely her folly, was doing this.

[65:07]

I keep thinking of the problem women propose today, which is those of equality. In the 30s, a Louise Antoinette Krauss doesn't really come to the human dimension at all, though he consequently never became a writer. Because she wouldn't have drafted somebody with the correct meaning. Equality. He wasn't even a sex object. He was an object. I mean, an absolute object. So I selected it. Well, I was punished in the existence of Stein because he, Robert Haas, wrote the first thesis on Gertrude Stein, which was on whiteheading Gertrude Stein. a philosophy done at the University of California in the period when I knew them. All right, let me get back to the quote. They're descending from the I House down the hill with Duncan tracing along. And Robert Haas said, should he read Eliot?

[66:19]

And Louise Anne Fernand, I think, had a voice. No, he's much too lurid already. You know, I continued being more and more lurid. He should read Pound. I wasn't even sure I heard the name right, you know. I mean, these awesome names. And I staggered away to the bookshop. Took me two weeks to have the courage to go find out what this would be. He had opened that volume and read those poking lines. So in that same period, I must say, they didn't put, Virginia Woolf, I had already started to read in high school, but The Waves had something like that upsetting quality for me that if I felt very, very strong I could read it, it wasn't a matter of it being heady, it was a matter of it being so exact and to me, carved forever in the lines that it even opened with or proposed, that it became painful.

[67:22]

And those were the lines. That was the quality of those lines, and still for me today, that he arrives at. That's not where it started. And so let's go to the first opening of the thing, why we start out with Sordello. Hang it all, there can be but one Sordello. But say I want to, say I take your whole bag of tricks, let in your quirks and tweaks, and say the thing's an art form, your sort, L.O., and that the modern world needs such a rag bag to stuff all its thought in. Say that I dump my catch, shiny and silvery, as fresh sardines flapping and slipping on the marginal cobbles. I stand before the booth, the speech, but the truth is inside this discourse. This booth is full of the marrow of wisdom. Give up the intaglio method. Tower by tower, red, brown, the rounded bases, and the plan followed the builder's whim.

[68:27]

Vogue cares, slim gray, leaps from the stubby base about the . Windows for the Alcazar had such a garden, split by a tame small street. The moat is ten yards wide, the inner courtyard half a swim with mire. Chunk holes? There were not. The rough men swarm out in robes that are half Roman, half like the nave of hearts, and I discern your stories. Cara Cardinal was half-forerunner of Dante, Arnaud's the trick of the unfinished address, and half your dates are out. You make your errors. For that great... sordello tap beside tis an immortal passage but the font is some two centuries outside the picture and no matter ghosts move about me patched with history you had your business to set out so much thought with so much emotion and call the lock sordello worth the evasion that setting figures up and breathing life upon them and that a place in music and your appear verona

[69:33]

I'd walk the airy street, see the small cobbled flare with poppy spoil. Did your great day, the Corpus Domini, and all my chosen of the Mithra village, had spread this scarlet blaze upon its lane, or before I was up with poppy flowers, mid-June, and up and out to the half-ruined chapel, not the old place at the height of the rocks, but that splayed barn-like church the Renaissance had never quite got into trim again. As well begin here, here began Catullus, home to sweet rest and to the way of deep laughter, the laugh they wait amid the border rushes. This is our home, the trees are full of laughter, and the storms laugh loud, breaking the riven way on square-shaled rocks, and here the sunlight glints on the shaping water, and the rain comes forth with delicate treads. walking for Isla Garda, low Soleil, both field. It is the sun rain and the spatter of fire, dark from the Lydian ripples, locked with Sunda.

[70:39]

And the place is plagues and full of spirits, not memories, not dark and wet, shadow, wet, ghost, but ancient living, wood, white, smooth, and inner bark, and firm of aspect, and all of green with color. Not ugly, but colored like the lake and olive leaves. Clothed like the poppies wearing golden wreaths. Light on the air, are they a trust in God? The air is solid sunlight. Sun-fed, we dwell here, we can do it now, for Sirmio serves my whim better than a solo, yours and unseen. Your palace step, my stone seat was the Dogon's vulgarist curve, and there were not those girls, there was one flare, one face was all I ever saw, but it is real, and I can no more say what shape it was, that she was young, too young. True, it was Venice and Aquarians under the North Arcade. I had seen other faces and had my rolls for breakfast, drifted at night and seen the lift, gilt frost beams glare from the Morosini.

[71:47]

And for what it's worth, I have my background and you had your background, watched the soul, Sordello's soul, flare up and lap up life and leap to the Imperium, worked out the form, meditated, semi-dramatic, semi-epic story. And what's left? free Dawn Trotter, free Boccaccio, not Arnault, not Book Seneca, the Cure God floats in the azure air, bright gods in Tuscan back before dew was shed. It is a world like Cuvée, never so pale like Wren, did the first life, not half-life, Pannis, and oak girls and the mealers have all the woods. Our olive cereal lies in its furnished mirror, and the mounds, balde, and reba are alive with song, and all the leaves are full of voices. it is not gone deptacio is right we have that world about it and the clouds bow over the lake and there are folks upon them going their windy ways moving by reba by the western shore far at lunato and the water is full of silvery almond white swimmers the silvery water glazes the upturned nipple

[73:04]

when Atlas stepped down with his astrolabe, D-Brother to permit the offensive. We let Pacino start our progress, say it was Moses' birth year, exulting Chang in SWATless, the sea monster bulging the squarish bronzes, dove out with blue or scarlet Egypt, green veins in the turquoise, or gray gradual steps lead up into beneath black sprays of heavy cedars, temple of teak wood and the gilt brown arches, triple in tier, banners woven by wall, fine screens depicted, sea waves curled high, small boats of gods upon the bright flame above the river Kwannon, floating a boat that but one lotus petal with what some proud four square genius leading along one hand upraised for gladness saying to she his friend the mighty goddess sing hymns ye reads and all ye roots and errands and swans be glad ye gardens of the nymphs put forth your flow what have i of this lot

[74:15]

or even of Guido, a pleasant lie that I knew, or San Michele. Believe the tomb he left with Giulia later. Do not even know which sword he whipped him in the street charge. I have but smelt it like a whip of it. The box of tented wood recalls cathedral shell I claim. Confuse my own fantasticon, for say the filmy shell that circumscribes me contains the actual sun. Confusing thing I see, the actual gods behind me. Are they gods behind me? Worlds we have. How many worlds we have? If Botticelli brings her ashore on that great cockle shell, is Venus Simonetta? And spring, I'll defeat you, fill all the air with their clear outline blossom. World it up. Behold, I say, she comes, appareled like the spring, and graces her subjects, Pericles. Such worlds enough we have, have praised their cores, and from these, like we get, the soul for man, and building full of fairy populations, panting about this, maintaining a sterner line, and a new world about us, barred like great flair, and ripe to paint, not mute, O Priscilla.

[75:35]

In the final framework of the cantos, the sordello is not in the opening canto. It appears in canto two at the beginning. Hang it all, Robert Browning. There can be but one sordello, but sordello and my sordello, lo sordello si fo di molta valena. churned in the sea, seals forked and spray-whited circles of cliff wash, sleek head, daughter of Lear, eyes of Picasso, under black fur of wood, lies daughter of ocean. And we have to go on quite a bit further before we come to another thing that is, I have been searching Pound essays and criticism and descriptions, and they don't carry it this far. It is Sordello in Browning's Sordello. We will find it when we start going into Sordello, who is sitting on the palace steps.

[76:45]

Yet it's read all the way through because Pound went to Venice because it's Sordello's Venice he went to. I sat on the Dubonnet steps for the gondola cross too much that year, and there were not those girls. There was one face and the butch and thor, 20 yards off South Howling Streti, and the lit cross beams that year in the Morosini. A grace they're gone is the step that's perfectly clear in these other ones that it is. Robert Browning and Robert Gretzny, who was sitting on the steps, the magical steps in Venice, where actually Sardello is also sitting. And so that by the time Pound going to Venice, going to the city of Robert Browning and Sardello will be sitting in the What he did on the steps of looking at the canal is in a magic place where we cross time and all three come together.

[77:46]

And there's a bit of a process like that in the final close, but it also is picking up a sound that's out of Robert Browning. And Robert Browning in the Sardella, when we come to it, will be Shelley's ghost. appears and has to be told to leave the poem so that we get to Sardello, and more than that, Robert Browning rightly feels that if Shelley were there at all, he, Robert Browning, wouldn't be able to write. He hasn't got Shelley's immediate melodic pull. As a matter of fact, I am not sure how many poets have that. And it is overwhelming to poets when you have a gift, right? Remember, gifts are real things you have. And when they come to poetry, they come to poetry as a whole, so they can be re-inhabited in a way. But they also haunt. And Browning says, likewise, Shelley.

[78:48]

It doesn't mention Shelley's name. But go back. What occurs in the middle of the end of the first canto, I mean, right in the midst of the... What Pound puts in his first canto, and it's a real hint, and it's part of what, in that episode of what I'm really at when I talk about the transition, our ideas of tradition and our ideas of also have to do with the difficulty that I have as a poet thinking about archetypes. because we're not dealing with psychology, we're dealing with the creative world, inhabited by, whose creations are ultimately real, when you meet them in poems, you experience them as experiences, and consequently, I've met them in the creative world, they're not the unconscious, despite the rightness of the elements, it could be called the unconscious, but it doesn't make any difference if I say they were written by Martians, if they're written outside what you meet in the world of the poet, of the poem,

[79:51]

Then you have told me nothing when you say unconscious and I told you nothing when I say Martians. You can't contradict me because they must come totally from the outside. You can't like point your unconscious at yours any more than or in any other way that you like point to the to a group of Martians. There's a difficulty here because Spicer wanted for sure for them to be something worse than Martians. Demons outside the idea of creation. What we begin the characters with when Tom shakes them and sees in a funny way a lead or takes the lead is that episode where Ulysses goes down and pours blood into the in order to call out Eurasius and learn what his fateful odyssey is to be, where he's to go. And the ordeal that he's to undergo, part of what was on Pond's mind, too, at this point when he was shaping his steps,

[81:04]

And as it's called up, then, the first one coming is Elfinor. And I'll read from the Elfinor on and give you a clue about what it is. Pond tells us that when he quarreled with Yeats, he quarreled with Yeats over the subject of Salsus and the subject of ghosts coming up in Salsus. And it was ill-tempered. Pound was outraged at the idea of Yeats's going over and over again to mediums and getting the voice of the dead. What Yeats knew very well, as well as Pound is, that the substance of what he ever got from the dead was very deep. And Yeats's major breakthroughs were like Pound's. It is in Shelley that Blake found his wandering, the Yates found his wandering Jew, who was one of the most central informants to Yates throughout.

[82:11]

I mean, informed what it was, why his soul was wandering throughout time. It was based on that, an apparition in Shelley, not something at a seance. But it isn't only how he was outraged with flights going to seance tables. I think we can remember that Robert Brownlee was Aunt Ray, Elizabeth Barrett Browning, going to Seahawks tables. And even in high school at the very beginning, Robert Browning is my beginning enthusiasm for poetry, the initiation of what it could be. And I came from a family who sat at Seahawks tables, getting data I never heard of. I mean, we didn't get to see what they got on the Seahawks tables, but a couple times I ever heard of it. I've heard a medium going that there's not anything as thrilling as it was for the people who were in religion, the poets. In the very beginning, when I wrote that Robert Browning was outraged by going to the panel table, I thought, no wonder.

[83:22]

Robert Browning, among all poets, perhaps with less the question of Shakespeare, because Shakespeare seems to be a multitude of people, seems to be everybody but Shakespeare. But Robert Browning inhabited ghosts. I mean, his dramatic monologue beat any seance table you ever saw in your life. I mean, and for anybody who could sit down and in the depth of a poem get ten times as much as anyone ever, but verifiably, bring around any stupendous account of a transcriber, Miles, a seance transcriber, none of them come up to us. come up to what Robert Brown would get at a form self-remeditately moving into another period, into another person. We call it recreating it. We also call it recreation when we're playing cards or when we play tennis. We have a whole series of things we do in life we call recreation.

[84:25]

And the pun, what is it? The anagram of meaning, the homonym of the two, recreating and recreating, and recreation has hidden in it something. I guess I'd be in recreation if we're recreating our body in some sense by letting it really enter into this place. And we have the double meaning for play. They're play, but the play is going on. And once the play is the thing, There, for sure, we will see Cleopatra. There, for sure, we will so see Macbeth that never in history or never by resurrecting or digging up a tomb or anything can it possibly become more real. And in one stupendous example that is right at hand, the one of Richard III, Shakespeare will so create him, and more than that, hide a cunning little joke in a recreation. The Tudors were falsifying history, almost exactly as history was falsified in the period of Stalin, Russia's history of the revolution.

[85:38]

And Shakespeare was thoroughly cooperating in a rather cunning and strange way. Because while a great saint, St. Thomas More, had been asked to do a life of Richard III and had thoroughly done a large, enormous lot, written what the Tudors wanted, Shakespeare just did one added thing. He put a hump. on Richard III's back, something everybody knew had not been on Richard III's back. You couldn't find a portrait with a hump on it. He made it a major thing, and yet he made that Richard III so convincingly Richard III that he outdid the Tudors and everybody else. He showed that creative story is more powerful anywhere than art. historical perspective. There is a wonderful detective novel by Josephine Tay that is the detective landing in a hospital does a detective job on Richard III and the murder of Little Princess and penetrates back into the Shakespeare.

[86:56]

But then you have mere histories. And it's not myth. We're not talking about myth or even legend when we're talking about the creation. So the riches of third is both immortal and eternal, which tell us the ahistorical. More powerful in history must be one of the terms for it, and consequently in an area . Well, let's go in this. Buried in Elpinor, we find only too soon as Pound, because Pound's identification with Odysseus, with Ulysses, becomes quite clear once he's at Pisa, once he's arrested. But it isn't even the arrest. They're shot through, and what makes the Pisan cattle extraordinary is that Pound comes up against his hubris In order to come up against it, he had to commit a hubris that was unbelievable.

[88:00]

Probably unbelievable. In the 30s, as you advance toward the depths of that hubris. Having some enthusiasm for Mussolini is not a major hubris. I do not want to reflect on some of the cats I voted for. I have to reprove me at a point when I was so scared that a Nixon might get in. that I signed a document in which I anticipated that one Johnson was going to mean well by all us artists. And I'd love to think he merely needed this, but if you think about it, I mean, could it be more appalling voting for the guy who invades Abyssinia? Of course, after the fact, that's true. I mean, but my blow-up at the at the thought of Johnson.

[88:56]

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