Blue Cliff Record Class

00:00
00:00
Audio loading...

Welcome! You can log in or create an account to save favorites, edit keywords, transcripts, and more.

This talk will not appear in the main Search results:
Unlisted
Serial: 
SF-03092
Description: 

Case 10

Photos: 
Auto-Generated Transcript

but in the welcome to the beginning of
a series of
five classes on the
book with record
and
i kind of forgot i usually send out a sheet and everybody sign an imminent
ah
take attendance after that i forgot to bring my sheep little disorganized today excuse me
and as
there's one week
for those of you who are
not in residence a gringo to now there's one week that i'm knocking on wood i could have class
so you know the week of the

i think you're a that november tenth as a monday
so november eleventh
the november eleventh you won't have class
that to say because i am going to make a short of to tassajara or otherwise we'll have the five classes
and i want to pass up
these
and out here
and if you have a copy of the booklets record this is nothing other than that so if you have a copy the text don't take one in case thrown enough
and
if you
are interested in
zen literature
ah coins stuff i would really recommend that you get a copy the book with record
it's something it's a book that you want to
kind of like read through once in a nice if you're probably
go back to it again and again so it's worth having and you can find it and used bookstores
if there's anybody in the class tonight who's a visitor
that's better
kyiv the material to somebody who's in the class
ongoing leaf
are you take it
township
sure gets on the

everybody get a copy that are we missing we don't have enough

the sir
should be five cases her
kisses ten
learn and twelve
thirteen and fourteen
are they give you fifteen to than an extra case free of charge
a bargain

and although we could certainly spend more than one week on each case if we wanted to
are was just kind of polished it off
in one session and then we'll go onto the next month
understanding that probably we could study at more
and learn more about it but for the stood was spent one week on my case
so
i would like to say just a little bit about
coins are good
excuse me
but coins in there
just a little bit about what they are where they come from and i mean i'm sure most of you
no all this already but
it's nice to be going on conlon say it again and an illegal organized way
so
ah
since from the beginning the zen school was interested in
the actual
experienced that the buddha had under the bodhi tree
not in the elucidation of that experience through the scriptures
the expression of that experience in a lively way as teachers and students together
worked with each other was what zen was most interested in and so early on they would discuss with each other things that happened in the monastery and things that were sad and so forth these were later collected into
books that were called the transmission of the lamp various just recollections sayings and doings
the various old teachers
and then later on
there were those who would take lift an interesting story from here and there in those books and make their own private collection for their own students have their favorites just like i have my favorites and you have your favorites these are the ones that really means something to you and so you want to share them with your students and so they became
cool collections of collins and called from here and there
and so the minister
his twelfth century master shadow
i did that he collected one hundred stories and usually when they collected the stories they offered so to editor them slightly
and he collected one hundred stories and
then he wrote a as as was we had become accustomed by this song dynasty when already
chinese buddhism was fairly well developed and
the methods of john where
well developed that was the tradition of writing verse a poem
on his own story so mr schrader did that he collected one hundred stories and he wrote a poem for each one and he used that as kind of like a little private text of his and then
but one hundred years or eighty years or so after that
you on will another master took shredders stories and poems and added an introduction
and made a comment commentary to each story and each poem and so what we have here is that text which is worked by master schrader or anyone will
and it became very very famous text used widely not just by shredders own students but is disseminated and used by a lot of people and particularly identified with the rinzai school of zen although soto pro
tactician who used it also and they say that duggan's and g discovered this book
the night before he was coming back home to japan from china and that he was so enthusiastic about it that he copied the whole thing in one night
which seems outlandish in a way but actually not so outlandish if you consider that maybe the text that he had was only a show a dose stories and poems if it was just the stories and poems he could have done it maybe so let's say they didn't distinct
nice about so either
and he brought it home with him and circulated in japan
and
so you know it it has some currency in the soto school as well although they show your or the book of serenity is usually the which is constructed by different to different people and exactly the same way obviously modeled on this text that that's mostly associated with the soto school
so i as far as i know and i i i studies are not really current but
as far as i know
nobody knows for sure
these stories were used by different meditation masters
in the days of china and china in twelve thirteen fourteen century
and it seems like just using common sense and little scholarship we have that they probably use them in a variety of ways and different people use them in different ways
zen teachers are very independent in individualistic and they do things you know their own way and so they probably had a lot of different techniques
and
but
the whole things or dissipated and after a while like all
religious traditions and not only religious traditions but other sorts of things they have their great moments of efflorescence of in their moments of decay so there was a extent of a decline and then a great japanese zen master in a least now speaking in terms of the japanese tradition and japanese zen master in the night and
the eighteenth century named hockley who was a great really great zen master
also wonderful calligrapher and painter
really energetic and quite funny guy
revitalize the system and created a whole system of his own out of all these materials
and
all of the through the japanese lineages anyway all the con
collections that con methods that we have now come from ha coins centuries revitalization for a long time there was a cook sort of a doctrinal sectarian fight between soto's and and rinzai zen and soto zen saying we don't use coins and means
ice and saying you're dumb you know his collins we do and the sort of people saying oh you just want a samurai you use guns you don't really do real
practice they there was some people who had this kind of the bait and so on that lasted for a while and they're different
yeah among different teachers
ah
but there were what they were always soto and masters who went to rinse i schools to learn the current system and brought it into the such as so they were various soto schools that had the da vinci system
and other such as cause i didn't use the system at all
so
ah in the system you are there are lots of ways of working with the system but in the system you basically memorized story
and you are gently steered in the direction of particular pivotal point in the story which you take
into meditation practice yeah you you you breathe with that story that particular point of the story until it's sort of disappears as an idea and reappears as a kind of a vivid sense of your own breath or your own life and then you just stay with that story constantly going to the master for presenting your
understanding until you finally get it right and then you go to another one and the ideas that each one of these little stories as a kind of a window on reality which is can't be seen whole but you can see see it through window and see this window enough window and all the different windows all around pretty soon you start getting a feeling for
ha ha things are
so it's really a nice system and it does depend on a lot of
interviews so typically when the system is used you'll find that their interviews frequency machines and interviews maybe four times a day and he shane so you got an interview he would go up three four times a day that you really need to do that because otherwise because they give you little hints miss the
oh in an interview and present an answer and you've run out there's only you can do that that because you don't stay very long in the interview you just staying brief amount of time and then you get little kinda hints that wasn't that known so on
and then eventually is you have you or can can come together
without the hints you could be pretty hard so you need you need that is to depends in my opinion anyway on that kind of frequent interviews
in our tradition from suzuki roshi are we don't use that system and as you no we don't have the practice of frequent interviews like that and ours our way is is mostly focuses on duggan's notion of
tendulkar on which means the com that is arising in the middle of our lives and the and con in our means
i mean the word actually literally means like public document like a legal case for some link them a precedent you know that sets the
the the pattern
but they the idea of a con is that it that it brings up
brings us to a place where yes and no right and wrong black and white don't apply and so we have to go deeper
in our lives and that's true actually every moment of our lives lives raises the question like know why are we born how come we're dying know
what does this life all about that question is actually there every one of our lives and so sometimes it gets raised
how vividly in usually it doesn't and these stories are are supposed to bring us to that moment of our lives but in in our were practice we don't rely on the whole story so much however we do study them and certainly if you if you read the writings of duggan's engineers the founder of soto's in a heap
referred to the stores and he himself had made his own private collection which had three hundred cases in a in it
so he clearly study these stories and was interested in him and and always in sheboygan saw his great work refers to them over and over again so the ideas that that in soto's in and certainly in the way that we've developed over the years of working with them we read them and study them and appreciate them and try to understand them for their deepest mean
eating but our approach tends to me that be a little bit more literary kind of let's talk about the stores and try to understand them and maybe through meditation practice also really bring them to heart
to are heart to her mood oh really then the words of solomon almost like we steep ourselves in these stories like competition i used with to sit there for while long enough and presume the flavor is there so it's more like that for us rather than kind of a sudden
penetration of the story so in this class
we're gonna take that approach and it's debatable for a long time i resisted doing a class like this just because i haven't i wondered whether it was have any from any there was a virtue and speaking of these stories and explaining this and explaining that and ringing up the teachings that the stories in the cave and so
so and so on i had serious doubts about whether that there was a virtual in then ran other rather than you know actually taking up the cases in the ducks on room in the system
but finally i decided well you know someone who knows does anyone ever really know if they're doing any good or not
oh and i decided to do it you know just for myself so that i could study the cases which i know that i would be too lazy to do or too busy i would say that i was too busy to myself
if i didn't have to talk to you about themselves having to talk to you about and means that i had to study them and it's good for me you know i think
as otherwise i probably would ever think about him
and i wouldn't and i usually you know a certain way i mean now i've changed in these few short months of studying them but before that i didn't particularly like them
so i thought is a bad thing for a zen teacher who doesn't like then literature is no good so i should probably that can happen i should really is like in our in our like a catholic who this the dislikes the bible and would rather have yoga branch
that's don't hurt
so i thought i'd better do something about this
otherwise than i should change jobs sir
so i started to apply myself to the study and i your unfortunately or fortunately for you owe your to sitting in my my
after my study over the cliff record
and i hope to do all hundred cases before i'm done
so
anyway that's just to give you an idea of this and i also may from time to time
the point out a place where here's here you can sit with this piece of the story to take that to your thousand and i would welcome any of you who would like to do that to to do that and come and see me and tell me the results of your investigations
and i and i do use i've also used
these stories and also original cons with students quite a bit
style of did that style of doing cons are developed in china and korea where you would have one colon from for your whole life understanding that any con is actually inexhaustible even though you could penetrate the koran and have an answer to to go on to other costs that certainly doesn't mean that you've exhausted how
could it it's like saying you know you've exhausted the the meaning of your life which one can never do so
chinese would take a call and like safe example who am i or who is or what is it and they would have that coin for a lifetime constantly sitting of that kind of question so i've i've used that a lot with our students are given a question
what is suffering or
something sit with them and people have done for for many years sometimes sit with a question like them it's can be very effective
or taking a line from one stories and sitting there like that for many years
then it was just a little
oh background to so that we were clear left in wentworth
the different aspects of collins study
so we're going to start with case tim
mojo stealing funny

so so here's the interaction
so so not so not so
in battle
each occupies a pivotal position
that is why it is said
if you turn upwards than even shock your booty my tray or manjushri some onto barbara and the myriad sages together with all the masters in the world all suck in their breath and swallow their voices
if you turned downwards worms and maggots and everything that crawls all sentient beings each and every one emits great shining light dish and everyone towers like a wall miles high
so that's what they say
if on the other hand you need a face upwards or downwards how would you deal
if there is a principal go by the principal if there is no principal go by the example
to test i cite this look
so that's master yuan was introduction to the case
and then the case
woodrow asked a monk where have you just come from
and the monk immediately gave a shout izmir when most famous and shouts with and i didn't knows when you'll hear them too much around here but there their places where the shot old times
buddha said i've been shouted at by you once
which is the deserve
the you know
one of the problems that we're going to have is we don't really know what this says best from cause in chinese
and maybe somebody here knows chinese well enough to be able to read tang dynasty chinese but i know if you do let me know and we'll talk in class so all we have to do here as we we have clear thomas cleary's idea about what it says and i consult when i stayed with these classes like
consult three or four different translations and i try to use my common sense learning and i have the feeling that in this particular case
tom is a little bit off because he doesn't agree with the other translators and they agree with each other and furthermore the way they translate makes more sense
smith
so you're laughing
haha so i think the idea here is it's not that it's wrong and yet it's gives you the wrong impression i've been shouted at by you shouted at by you once i think the is okay you shouted me down and the resume and fine
i say where have you come from you shot fine good shot me down congratulations as the added
okay so the mug shots again
so then we just says
okay so after three four five shots then what
and again i think clear gives us an erroneous impression he says the monk had nothing to say
this is a delicate operation is case and i think that
cleary's translation here does not point in the right direction is rather i would say the monk kept silent it's different when the market nothing to say right the monk kept silent
mujer than him
and he said what a thieving phone you are
so that's the case
hey
then ah master
you one who makes a verse i mean no
sway those verse
ah goes for into cleary two shots and then a third shot
arabs recognize the opportune moment to change
this see these little words that are bracketed by asterisks underneath those lines but i'm reading those are a later there's still a third zen master whose name escapes me at the moment
this is the tradition in our beyond words letters strike
but nevertheless a third zen master can't resist
commenting on suede those verse which comments on the main case
and you can be sure that if somebody wanted to they could make comments on the comments on the comments on a comments and that there are some things that exist but
the notes were that alphabetize are cleary's notes and those are just sort of those notes or this sort of them technical notes but these comments here are zen comments you know
be the fourth a teacher to make it well yes i'm gonna come in and all the comments you second second accept accept the naka it's not going be written knowing book
so least there's some virtue and then
ah
so i just saw the verse is all these lines that come out to the margin the other lines is no part diverse yellowstone i'm saying okay
two shelves and a third shot adams recognize the opportune moment to change if you call that riding a tiger said the two of them would both turn out to be blind man who is a blind man i bring it out for everyone to see
dress as to sway else versafine occasion comments
on the case
okay now
so
these all seem like strange doings and sayings i know but ah
once you kind of get into it and you've appreciate the way these people practice in a kind of lingo that they used to it begins to make it just isn't really all that
hard to understand i'm actually it's hard to realize what they realized but to understand what they're trying to say is not all that hard i think so
one of the things that you're supposed to do when you discuss these cases you're always posted
tell about
people for these are people
ah who were living and they were saying these things and so have to tell about the people so i'm gonna tell you a little bit and i go do research and up all these books and so i am good time without my like this character so i'll tell you about mujer
and then after i tell you by mujer will go to the case and and looking at mojo slide historian some things that happen i think will help you to understand what this case is about and why it is the way it is so rude i live in the eighth century eighth ninth century
so he was one of the early earlier it's a kind of height of the development of shine in china
his dates or seven eighty to a seventy seven
and
he sort of a little bit
not so much is known about his life but the one thing that they all all the commentators mentioned about his life which is very interesting is that here for a long time
earn his living he lived with his old mother in a village
and for long time he earned his living by making straw sandals
because this was a typical footwear for the monks on pilgrimage be the where straw sandals and they would wear them on and they would be new ones and so he would that's what he did and he would
kind of like she was secretly
ah giveaway the sandals like he would find him some monk sleeping somewhere with reward out sentinels and he would like take us or not sounds when you put a fair new ones there without anybody knowing say
i'm here he became a were very well loved in his village for being so kind
to do this and to somebody last oh yeah people know for me when when they ended they wooden sandals with appears good i mean and then they would say oh maybe let later on as to poker they said i must have been all master mojo who were famously sandals and
there was one story that i have found that seven one time bandits wanting to were
convey the town and take it over and when mucho heard about this humid a gigantic sandal
honda ah he hung it over the the hung it
have you city gates
and when that when the band saw the sandal they are they didn't come in and overtone africa
so now this in the story that i read they said the reason that was was not because they were afraid that there was a giant in the town i didn't like me but because they knew that the saintly mucho lived there and so they wanted to protect the town i respect for him
anyway it's a story
but his style and in wasn't in much contrast to this
because he was sort of obscure and and he there are teachers who are one one of the ways of being as and teacher is to be hard to
fine
and hard to get at once you find them and so he was like that he kind of with be people off the stick on nearly had to be literally he really has to be quite interested in studying with him in order to seek him on and stick with it as you'll see in a moment when i tell some of the stories of how that how he did that
anyway
i i guess i won't go into them
our lineage business but
one of the things that i'm always interested in is showing how the relationship between the different as a whole bunch of different styles and zen and approaches and it's interesting to see how they developed in who who's will widen and where myth anyway
maybe it's enough to say from her on it
hum
there was a
a famous master congo was very important than master and and hongbo had
ah two disciples were very important in one of them was new job and the other one was lindsay or in japanese rinzai who was the founder of the school that bears his name and rinse ice school
is known for shouting
you can see that's why it's important to know that means i school was ruins i was very famous for shouting that was his thing that zen people were always trying to figure out in how am i going to work
express this understanding beyond words
and they would various ones would come up with you know certain devices for trying to express themselves in lindsay had a device of shouting at people all the time
so if you read the record of lindzen it's full of he shouted they shouted we shall we all shout but he has
so
so in this story that's one of the things that's going on is that
student this sort of working trying to figure out the shop working with the shop as a way of expressing his understanding
so
no mucho
it was an older down a brother of lynching
and when lindsay came to a study with longbow woodrow was this yourself or the tonto or something
so i'm gonna tell you the story and what happened in lindsay
when woodrow was the talento because it's very interesting i think it tells you a lot about lindsay and but how they lived together work together in the monastery and how they took care of each other so i think it's an interesting story so who's our ghost samudra is it is the head mark
lng shows up to study and lindsay is very
pius and quiet and a plodding and i'm not too bright but does everything right and route tries hard
so he comes into my son mucho notices him and his impressed with him than say anything
and no one year goes by two years goes by three years go by lindsay never goes to doxa with the teacher in three years
so in a joe's in observing this and he says so
oh well you how come you don't go into see them see the master
lindsay says i think in a very humble and heartfelt where remember know this is mister by
he says you know my practice is so poor that i wouldn't even know what but to ask i wouldn't even have anything to say
samudra mujer says and this same sort of thing happens around here all the time we just says look or go i think you should go don't don't worry about you know it'll be it'll be good is really important to go to dogs on so you go solyndra goes
and before he can open up his mouth
colombo hits
so imagine that three years you know oxon gonna dog of teacher israel joshua
as would happen
so yeah lindsay felt terrible you know you can imagine how usually felt terrible of address and
so we just said will listen you know the teachers are really good guy and under
and then in all sincerity i don't think he's fooling around which oh he's really he's really concerned about lindsay's well for us this is go again
well it goes again same thing happens because the third time with munoz urging same thing happens
suddenly he says
and this again shows the chemistry and he says well of course i have there's nothing else to do but leave and i go i mean i only have a question emerged by the head monk to go and i go in and i guess i get struck with a stick three times i tried my best and he says it must be that i have a strong kervick obstruction
and i just don't seem to be able to understand that teaching slime is gonna have to go i guess i'll go away
so he's ready to go and we just as on and you don't do that anyway if you have to go before you go go see the teachers or more time say goodbye
not ask a question but but it is protocol and you know if you don't leave the monastery without it shouldn't anyway without going to see the teacher and say thank you very much in making your bows living it's just a sister accustomed so when she goes in to say goodbye to one guy meantime mujer for the first time goes to kong
he hadn't spoken to before have a nice is look for will this guy lynch's a wonderful student in i don't know what you've been doing with him but the please you know have have some compassion of because i really think that he's a great student i think that lindsey i mean the one folk this is my interpretation hongbo did not understand
luigi's spirit say he he needed mucho needed to tell him what was going on he didn't understand
so when after mucho talked to one ago he says to and in southern lindzey comes you know and he says well
ah doesn't hit a mr he says well
since you're going why don't you go see a master w
that's where you should go
so when she says okay and so he goes to see master w and he tells value the whole story
in many upset you know tells thursday the holster
and i you says sir
don't you see that nestor hongbo was treating you with grandmotherly compassion
i'm trying to release you from your suffering
and yet you think that there's karmic obstructions in the year and your fault you just don't see what's going on
in this lindsay suddenly understands the kindness of ongoing bursts out laughing
and says one of the great famous lines and zone now i see there's nothing at all the one was in in what a bomb on is nothing to it at all
and now you says you just can't be a minute ago telling me about how you've bet field pay you feel his an and now you're telling me there's nothing wrong nothing good about nothing special about one goes in and then lindsay punches him
having that so and then one says than die users so you'd better go back to two to one by his your teacher
ha
so you know i just the whole way that they relate to each other in the way that this all happens and you know this don't use the can you relate to this thing of nj feeling like there's some climbing struggle obstruction i just can't understand that it's my fault and so on i mean this is how we feel you know but but when he understands from value somehow value helps them to understand that it's not about that it
all
that that that one boss treatment of him is really is kind when he realizes that and we realize is that in fact he understands already say
then all of a sudden he turns to contain this sort of very straightforward mild mannered guy to mr shout almost like just like that
so is an interesting story that the now
so now mucho right later on
ah
goes out to teach on his own
and he
definitely learned something from longbows methods
and he himself now seeing that used similar methods to the way that one book taught and this is a hard way to teach i'm in other words and it doesn't work
less know it works it works really good but it only works i just my opinion understand the hype feel it only works
when there is a tremendous first of all when the student already is well rooted and grounded in buddhism has tremendous faith number one and number two as more or less given up everything else in their lives but the packed with the way then it works because then the person when you hit em they made they don't just run screaming out of there
they they deal with it come back however is not skillful i think in other situations because
you gotta know you're hitting
right so i think that if if we try to use such methods around here we will be insane because i don't think it would work of it only create tremendous trouble and harm so not to him maybe in one hundred years we can get into the shouting fire in the hitting per not yet
anyway
we already in studying you know if you set a case number six you will be introduced to mr human
i missed a young man and i'm tell me about master human this is like a setting collins is like a hypertext card
the story each one store leads to another and it goes on infinitely but returned with algae i won't keep going like that i'll just stop it at some point i'm utterly when she points started at least tournament so young men is important to know about him because he he was very famous investor as well and he started by going to mucho
so that's where this gives me a chance to tell you alluded among who was teaching style is see by telling you about humans
study with video
i'm
so mucho as i said was obscure hard-to-find and if you could find them and you could get in the gate
but he would grab you by the collar
say speak speak you know why you're being ill
and if you didn't say anything he would throw you out and close the gate
that was this that's how he taught
so young man came nice speak speak in men than say anything it's roma closed the gate and new months leg was in the gate when he slammed the and a busted man's leg and then became enlightened
huh
so
yeah man
always loved was joking you know himself developed a similar style
he took it
he took it to every a different in different way
so i see by that you're laughing i'm not get quite getting a foreign across and
a
let's talk about the shout mean that well
no
so on sunday during at a funeral right and some of you were there i was there and in a funeral
the
sojourn
our senior dharma teacher officiated at funeral
and he spoke
of birth and death and in the middle of his remarks he gave a great shout just like clingy would show that you he's like that
panda
and that's very traditional to do that in fact that's how you support if you if you if you actually live the traditional way to do a funeral ceremony is the you write a verse and the last line of the verse is a shop
no the shout
is a serious thing because
it and when we were sitting there in the funeral and we heard that shout
it wasn't a joke and i was a serious thing i mean this is this is life right
beyond words it's beyond explanations beyond our expressions of run
sadness for the person who's gone how can we understand birth and death how can we understand the fact that we're alive i mean like this was a woman who died who was a dear friend of many of us and she had children who were fairly young how could they they stood up and they said something and how could they really understand how
they express the strangeness and the incomprehensibility of losing my mother you know
how can you understand that and you can express it so i shot does pretty well
actually now the shout it seems to me is the equivalent in zen and the famous
thundering silence of visual acuity and momma kitty sutra
there's this whole little storyline but basically when it comes down to his many many many wonderful buddhist students are asked to express their understanding of reality and they all express something and all the things that they expresses our wonderful
but
when women occurred kitty is asked to express his understanding he's peace silent and it's not the silence of i don't know something or the silence of i won't say or the silence of let's just be quiet now and i think about it it's a very active silence that expresses the inevitable ineffable
so they call it that the thundering silence of maturity
so the reason why ends in that silence appears as a shout i would say is because as an emphasizes activity in energy and personality
job as an expression a spontaneous strong no-holds-barred no nonsense expression
have you know reality is ungraspable
i appreciate that now i live i live my life based on that i know that birth and death are here every moment and i and i i take a step forward into that that's what the shadows so it's a serious shot however
not always because people
imitate shop or they make a shot into a style so because it becomes that laughable thing in a way
when it's not really so in other words is the shot real or not is the shout authentic or not
is it a jokey shot as it is it a zen shot or is it really
it's really and truly expressing
this reality itself and the same thing is true with all these other expressions the beating and the hitting us on which is sometimes has different meanings depending on the situation as does the shop
and you know when you give his own talk
it's actually the name of the cent talk which has given by a qualified teacher who was you know fully qualified to teach them is actually called tissue
it's different it's different term for the talk that's given by the qualified teacher and a taisho i think i'd live translates as presenting the shout
so that when you give it a dharma talk when when his anti trick is a dharma talk you really aren't necessarily
expected to set to explain or elucidate the dharma
basically your talk should be the equivalent of a shout
in other words of personal strong expression of ultimate reality to the best of your ability to do so resident an explanation of of bodhidharma
so you know in reality often we don't give taisho in often like when i give talks quite often i mean of course you could say that one is always expressing her and i tried to do that but usually in our talks we are elucidated government would actually reels and talk
is not to elucidate the dharma but it's just to present the shop to show to demonstrate really demonstrate
so anyway that's something about the shout and a
will our rinzai herself were developed the shots he wasn't the first one to do it two generations before him
matsuo was the first zen master to give a shout and he gave a tremendous shout apparently that the bhaijaan his disciple on hearing it was deaf for three days the story goes south tremendous was so sharp but hidden so to raise the shout to the level of technique as a mentioned it selection
has less to say about the shop
anyway so that's a little background so now we can appreciate better know the story and where it's coming from
but first let's go back to the so let's not talk about i'll just go through are worth i'll go through this in the
point out some things that interested me and that i think are valuable and after that suitable see how much fun we have will win over tottenham
so

tear up the basic problem that we have is
because we have minds
in a week we have opinions and we stick to those opinions
the opinions blind us
so we drive one opinion and we pick up the opposite opinion and then appliances and we seem to be constantly stuck on the horns of a dilemma long as we have a mind and our practice is trying to get us to let go of all of that and just stand in the middle of the shot stand in the middle of you know this feeling for
reality so that's what this
introduction is
telling us about
so so not so nuts so there were these are you know
one opinion is it so gather opinion is not so either way these are just accuser dispositions opinions to have
in battle each occupies a pivotal position so when we debate
we a yes or no
that is why it said if you turn upwards than even shockey et etc together with all the masters in the world all suck in their breath and swallowed her voices if you turned downward forms and maggots etc so turning upward as means taking the absolute delicious beyond in our everything the silence
if you take the absolute position then nobody no person even shocking when he buddha maitreya buddha and all the buddhist all have to
humble themselves before the absolute it is bigger than anybody could understand
if you turn downwards if you turned toward the relative
then each and every thing
did not only completely understand that but each and everything manifests like a shining light
and yet these are just two different opinions to different positions what about
when you face neither upwards or downwards what about when you just stand in the middle of reality without an opinion of the absolute or opinion of the relative or attachment to any one how do you
present
reality without falling to either extreme
so the case is gonna
give us feeling for that
some lujo asked a month where have you just come from and yeah you see this question over this was a standard question
that the zen teachers would ask where where do you come from i often ask that question myself and i remember when i first went to study with one of my teachers he asked me that question where do you come from
and i remember i said surprised him i said well i really don't know
but i was born in such inception
he was surprised that i said i really don't know
so i often as that people may say san francisco or moran or some
but of course the question is
ah it means san francisco and but it also means
where do you really come from how does your life appear how could it be in a who are you really something sunlight that
the monk this is this is a a
savvy monk more shots gives a shop
and i think ah so the question now we're left with an as khan is what is that shaft is that a phone is and child is the monk showing off his the monk or arrogant did the monk really presenting ruins eyes non dual shower
you know there's no one thing about the shop the true shop is that there's absolutely nothing holding on
the words there's no shadow of look at me i just gift shop or what a great shout or something you know it's just this is that i could die right now and it's fine
no question of good or bad or writer on so what kind of show was there some mucho
said
fine good shout you in
so maybe rejoice little bit testing to find out what kind of shot that was
and the most shouted again
eliane you know it's not exactly and then and this is the crux of the con is that we have to know and we have to decide we have to find the shout in ourselves
so that we can
be in the position of that monk and will be know what the shot is
so then mucho again says after three or four shots than what
and the look of silence
what does that mean present mean that the monk is embarrassed by i just calling him from his phoniness or does it mean that the
the monk is not presenting silence as the shop
so that's for you to think about
then made mujahid him and said what a feeling for me you are not you gotta understand that it's in
the fact that somebody hit somebody doesn't mean that there were wrong and made a mistake and hitting can be a great
compliments
i went when quango hit lindsay
what does that mean
in the story i told you before
was hongbo actually seeing lindsay's accomplishment and hitting him of congratulations and lindsay was misunderstanding and not letting go there is lindsay would have let go after the first haiti would have realized one hit him because he loves me
cause he really acknowledges me
instead major was stuck on his feeling of inferiority so he saw the heading as something like you don't know what you're talking about
so this case we don't know but sometimes hitting is you dummy
so say it is not obvious
this is one of the you see because
this is the whole problem and the beauty of our life is that
it's not like enlightenment and delusion are divided up neatly into different columns
it's not like them if if if we divide them up neatly into different columns that we're not really appreciating what enlightenment is we're not really appreciating not really understanding what delusions
it's through a full bodied and personal
as and what isn't not quite the word i wanted ownership of the person that we are as we are
that we express our lineman
it's not throwing away the person that we are becoming some sort of perfect
buddha it's being the person that we are with full bodied acceptance so in sense
being a buddha and being a is economy
thieving funny
our mixed up together say that's why we have to ourselves come to an appreciation of this in ourselves before we are the i to see whether he means you really a done and that's why hit you or i really think you're wonderful and i approve of your understanding and then
why did you
so they're having a
a very important conversation
in which they both are aware of what's at stake the having a very important conversation about
the nature of birth and death
and
the commentary i think god
gives us of hits and some some good suggestions as to the nature of their dialogue solid say she thinks about the current their first of all
says
if you want to establish the teaching of our school
he must have the i have a true master and the functional ability of a true master so these two things ah the i in the functional ability
our
the sort of
this is the meat and potatoes of santa
the i i don't know some of you were hearing my talk on sunday
in in the pointer on case nine that i talked about on sunday
the same thing is referred to in the in the introduction or it says the mirror member the mirror and the sword
the mirror and sword is like the i and the function so the sunday mirror or the i is that you see clearly in other words
basically almost nobody sees things very rare to see clearly because we're so blinded by our self interest basically
are our experience you know
that we always project the past and our self interest onto whatever we're seeing just like maybe lindsay was projecting his inferiors sense of inferiority onto one boasts striking him
he saw it as one thing when it was maybe and anything so to actually through the process of our practice purify our our i so that we can see things clearly as they are as it says a case nine you know whatever is in the mirror is reflected just it is without any any distortion so that's fifty percent
and the other fifty percent is based on a clear sight is not enough you see to just have clear vision we have to act that is all about the dynamic action which is always unique and always fresh and always personal
but not willfully personal but personally you know that it was this is reality as it really is i'm a human being i'm in this position right now i have to come forth in response to reality
present is very active and network has to be tested really the essence of those two sides if you because if you come forth without the i did just make a mess
and if you sit there with the eye and you don't get up your to pass it either way your zen practices is incomplete
so you have to have a balance of these two factors
so let's see
so down into the next paragraph ah
the monk was well polished and prepared
but nevertheless he had a dragon's head but a snake's tail
so this tells us pretty clearly what's going on because dragon means
clear eyes instant snake means confused
so this monk he partly was really pretty good
the harley's confused
so in the course of the story this monk actually wins a great victory because he's able to see clearly
in the course of the story as will find up
so then the next thing isn't the whole thing disgusts pretty clearly
so this monk had a drag his head and other words he was a good student so anybody but master mucho would have been thrown into confusion by this month
and
you know like when monk lujo asked him where he just come from of the no shouted what was his meaning the old fellow wasn't at all flustered he replied i've been shouted at by you once he seems to take that shot and put it to one side and he also seems to test him
again among shouted
he seems to be right but he isn't yet really right
his nostrils were pierced by the old fellow menial fellow hung up to dry who immediately asked after three or four shots then what the most was speechless
so where is it said for a
but for changes gotten in singapore's
yeah so i i think that are
yet here if you can discern survival and destruction and distinguish right and wrong if your feet turn the ground of reality than who is concerned with after three or four shots than what
see if you are intimidated by that question
then you're still holding on it
i'm gonna go into the teacher i'm in a shout going to get it right
because there is a right
the reserve but actually there is there isn't a riding around this just now
so when the monk whole silence
like i say clearly seems to feel that here of way translate that when the monk whole silence the book is defeated
but i would say and i think that yeah the in a commentary on the poem and and upon herself it seems to me that the monkey is them
realizes after his second shot
that there was a shadow of holding on in his shop
and then when he's speechless as not because he's embarrassed for like rinzai slinking away while i don't have it was more like he he understood was only silence was upright silence and active silence and that when roger then says
as
ah you're a phony thief and hits and it's an approval and in the form i think that would indicate that
as but you could see the way that's the interesting thing about these stories is sometimes you can see it the other way as well and
and
these dialogues
the dialogues are not really they're often called dharma combat but you don't think they're dharma combat it's with a sense of it is more like bringing out the diamond together and then we bring out the data together
we take various positions
somebody says yes somebody else has to say no but you can do the other way around you could say yes a negative no together altogether you know in the hole in the whole gestalt of it will bring up truth so i think among silence he
understood what mojo is telling him and he just came forward with this
acceptance and acquiescence
then understanding and which i was satisfied he had to be there probably tell
so you can see the problem in front of you
and
i'll give you some variant translations
two shots three shots
the knowing one knows well
if going hell bent both are blind who was blind fetch him and expose him to the world
and another translation to shots three shots the enlightened person is smart
but if you say that's sitting astride a tiger than both of your blind who are the line once go fetch them and show everyone

so

this sitting on a tiger's head or sitting astride a tiger is translated by one translator as going hell bent because the ideas that that's a tigers are tigers this jump they don't think so if you're sitting on a tiger's hand you your of someone who
gives a shot without worrying about
so this line
to shout three shots
the third shot is pooja saying
not shouting at all but same words
lindsay
distinguish between for kinds of shots
he said
i they said this for kinds of shots one shot is like surprise sword
showing you know emptiness
next kind of show is like crouching lion
washing up
the opponent the third kind of show is like a fishing pond
looking for the slightest movement of the line
and the last kind of shot as the shot that doesn't look like it a shot or work like a shop
so that's because shout that will joe gibbs in this case that's the kind of show that on sunday i have to a master georgia who never shouted that was his kind of show the master zhao shouted by very simple words
so
i think the palm to shout three shots saying that all these shots are valid chefs

both mojo animal
have a good eye and especially the one because the monk changes and learns doesn't stick to a shot because shouted undertones
but he didn't stick to it he was able to change and he was able to give his show as silence
both are behind
well again there's five kinds of blindness
does the blindness of ordinary people really are blind to their lives
there's the blindness of heretics which means people who have a powerful
religious powers and ideas except that the the wrong and a poisonous
there is the blindness of enlightened people who are blind to the ordinary world although they see reality deeper reality
there's the blindness of people who stick to their enlightenment it's another kind of blends
and then there's the blindness of buddha
which is the best blindness or more sad
in this so in other words with this is telling us that as the term blindness like like presents striking you are like the zen insulting you his doublet sometimes blindness as the blindness of for people in wonder what degree and sometimes to the blindness of people stuck to enlightening and some it's the blindness of buddha
so there's those distinctions and those differences but actually they're not so different
so so buddha doesn't look at ordinary people and think would blind dummies fully they could be like me enlightened
some different from them
you can see how you can imagine buddha saying such things are thinking such things right
when the vertices beings he says beings just like him right and they say that when the buddha was enlightened he said when a marvellous thing then all beings are enlightened
right so so buddhists vision of enlightenment was not that he was enlightened he could see and others were blind his vision of enlightenment was that everybody is in the same boat diamond and i'm in the same boat therein
so on one end that's why blindness and as it is this know can can be can be usually either side you soon i'm saying can be viewed from either side to shout can be reached me to sign
yeah
yes worms
getting tired
ah
so
ah
i think the poem is saying that to both blind
and then is for us to discern i mean i've seen in the right think that my favorite interpretation of the story is
the monk seas and especially as to be credited for changing
but
you have to think about
ah sauce than hearing quotes luigi's kinds of shots in commentary

see
so at the end of the last paragraph of the commentary psuedo us as who was a blind man tony is it isn't the guest who's blind or as the hostess one
aren't guest and host both blind at the same time
this is what i've been saying guess is the
unenlightened enlightened person the host is the enlightened person
so sweet i was three and emphasis you of blindness and say who is blind and i said both line at the same time each in their own way
so
a good way to meditate on the story is to ask yourself the question
who is blind
who is blind what his blindness
and contacts in the story
or you can ask yourself where do you come from where do i come from
the question and opens the story
for how you can sit with your breath
as the monks shop
each breath is a shop and consider that what is that shop
these are some ways that you can work with the story i knew doesn't practice because in in we've talked about the story and with
hopefully at least made it a little bit less absurd
then it it appears at first and hopefully we've
succeeded in giving you the idea that there's something really going on here more than just a bunch of guys slapping each other around and giggling
although they probably doing that too
what the issues are hopefully we have a better sense of with issues that are however the story doesn't really mean all that much until you very similar then
who is blind who is one who is enlighten you could ask for his life
what is enlightenment
what is the shout what is the breath in that way with the story in your mind sitting with it and that way you can really appreciate it more deeply
what's involved here
it's a radical thing
ah
when we say it over and over again but it's actually not very radical thing that
there isn't any doctrine
you know there isn't any
ah right answer there isn't any description of reality that we can all say oh yes good now i have them
there's only in effect
standing naked in the face of birth and death
and living completely
which is not an easy thing to do and you have to constantly let go
and we answer here this is a case of a very intense conversation in which the necessity to respond
with you know being viewed
clearly by the other is there of a minute
how do you respond without holding on anything
that's what these two are doing with each other and in the story
out of love for each other know because it adding for their and all the stories i see them as very affectionate dialogues
ah
not
giving it and each other any
my pampered each other and know in a way you could say that the deepest love is when we don't pamper each other
but when we're really straight with each other but with kindness and within a real sense of mutual concern which i see them in stores like this
anywhere anything to bring up yes
and some of these aunt throws there's so much hidden striking
citing now directly of kindness and use influence many that when he struck him and one my liking and is that and his network was a pint strike year and
it's i'm just trying very hard time with yeah well you know marine stewart ah bless your soul and along with this book when she was around she was a rinzai teacher and she would tell these stories all the time and she would always say in and masterminds i hit him shed away saying hit him
and he hit em
and she would explain that that him
i forget exactly how she said but she had beautiful way of explaining that it was like
direct personal contact maybe wasn't that hit him with the stick maybe was that he hundred
news that he that he grabbed him or maybe as that he looked at him you know that there was there was real contact actual contact in some way and some direct
in some direct way so she she actually didn't interpreted as meaning literally the here
so you can give it another you know and then he and he and what he made contact with where are they are they are they they met limit
he reached them in santa ana but she would she also i of the things that i sometimes do that i learned from her is she would go around the zendo
and you know how we used to have to stick a had people
well she would massage people
and sometimes i do that and when i do that i do it i'd love for her because i remember her doing it that was how she hid people
so so the idea of the direct unadorned know politeness just really meeting each other you know in other words were so intimate that we don't have to
social conventions here was just meeting one-on-one meeting one another you know like that
nakedly just meeting you know so that's it's more like that resident i mean it's hard for us to the hitting always has the connotation of some sort of violent negative thing but i don't think it's meant that way and clearly like i've been in zen mondo where where where i've been hit or i hit somebody and very often it's snowed like i stick of
rules like that
you know like that another word since affectionate and endeavour to have a year old grandmother is something as and i use my grandmother used to such as such a good boy is served
eden the so good now like that so i mean they could have been and so i think that that that i look at it that way now and and then you know these stories got extremely stylized over the centuries
and so you know that these are not exactly what happens and they did and you know they definitely somewhere along the line there it's did kind of turn it became a tough guy thing made who did that there is a canada i mean look i'm in don't forget there was a how many hundreds of years of japanese militarism
that zen was cooperating with those people translated and worked on these stories too so i turned into that i mean there were there an there's certainly an element of that in as the centuries war on and the monasteries did have take on a militaristic and and a tough guy
flavor but you see the story like that told you from baton rouge own in and windsor and how mojo's had loving-kindness to know please go into the teacher and it wasn't a setup i think he was really concerned about of the strikes that runs on takes he takes them as know there's something wrong with emily
he wants to flip move which doesn't and samantha was like your grandmother's know inaccurate well there's a million cars hitting a million kansas shouting with know in that case i think what happened there i would my interpretation would be that that
didn't you ever have the experience of someone
surely you must have many people in this room have had the experience of someone meeting you
in a strong way assuming your strength and your competence
and you take it as all my god they really they're really putting me down
the data revenue so there was some kind of encounter like that see where where hongbo is this coming on like this guy is a goose and nine and i think that i know from being a teacher that often happens where you'll see somebody for the first time and you this i have a number of people that i worked with where i can see that person
has a lot of chops as a human being wow what a great person and so i related in that way but they think oh my god i can't do it in texan so it takes a long time before they see in themselves what i see him
and i think that's what happened and lindsay did not did not appreciate what hongbo was how hongbo was reacting to him he was stuck on his own stuff
say
and so on but the the psychological thing about how after that brings i becomes this this teacher who was he was constantly and in men's i shout in a sense is like saying i'm gonna give you nothing
that's how much i respect you
i'm not going to pamper you one bit everybody here is a buddha and i don't have to do anything i don't have to compliment you are so to bring you along nicely or anything like that euro buddha and the hell with you know you don't like it tough you are good
stand up to that
that was resized teaching style after his experience can see how that would yeah
the that's what's interesting about these stories that's how these people come to these things so because of that because that was extent his experienced he he i sort of in the way went the other direction
ah yeah
so i am but you know the the like i say these are these little stories are
the stylized they're just as tiniest little
shorthand for what it must have really been the
yeah flesh these things out and imagine that i think you start with the assumption that these people were people like us
granted you know the culture was different and so on and say that are important differences but basically when it comes down to it they were in the same business in they were trying to figure out there lies and forgot who they were with why they went on this planet and with a supposed to be doing it
you know and they had suffering
if they didn't their suffering there would not have been practicing buddha dharma many that were orphans or and had tremendous suffering in their lives and in the course of their practice underwent tremendous suffering they prevented a bad food and monasteries and cold weather and no heat and i mean they really suffered a lie in for to to to
try to penetrate his ultimate questions so
we never like us and lot of ways even though the can do the object of conditions were different so when you think of it that way them you can i think appreciate that must have been this way
that
well yes i said
a retired mother jennifer
that now
yeah

okay well
since his practice to it is our custom the go over and vow out again class
so all those people in the french spirit whose commodities and they'll enjoying me to bow in chance refugees in anybody else who would like to join us is welcome here will see children as well known about five years
hey