Attachment to Form: Positive and Negative

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he might be useful to know
something about the baby
that's the small children
he a difference on be what the news on chief some to change
he she said
point of on chance to chat with the body more morbid
not just with nelson vocal cords born in his voice production
the whole the whole organism
this page
in vibrates
you should actually feel this vibrations matches
too soon
this you
use your full breasts and is to say when you can't you can't using your whole breast down to the very bottom of your breathing
push your breathing a little bit more way
been so not to use just the top
have you been
we we talked about that the channing practice
more given climate change but it doesn't just mean to you
chance on
the challenge you have power but it's powers nodded
who good power
coming from your chest put it
in in power comes from your stomach
you can produce this power few eggs you are fully
which each channing branch belong
when you been here comes deeply think that will help him to change
when found something that durban sandwich
expresses when i'd like to talk about
most must have you know
he said
although the precepts and the eating regulation should be maintained you must not make the mistake of establishing then as a primary importance and i'm basing your practice on them and should they be considered a means to enlighten them since they suit the conduct of the zen monk and the style of the true disciple they are observed
to save it they are good however it does not make them the most essential teaching
this is not mean that you should break the precepts and become dissolute if you attached to them your view is wrong and you depart from the way
the precepts and eating regulations are maintained because they followed buddhist ritual and represent a monastery style
the time i lived in the monasteries in china they did not seem to play the major role in the daily lives of the monks
to attain true way
maybe i should come in theory that when he says it does not did not seem to play a major role in the lives of the monks is referring to the next sentences were he explains it that most of the practices and so the next sentence goes
to attain the true way you must practice design and co on meditation is handed down by the buddhist and patriarchs
and he goes on go further
and then agio asked sir
pedro always asked me for an obvious question something you'd think you know better something that actually is questions are very interesting if you look at them more careful sir asia says should the regulations established by beauchamp
be followed in zen monastery
in the beginning of these regulations one reads
to receive the precept as the primary importance so forth he goes on this question
and dogan says if of course you should follow them they're very important but
the best way the problem is to practice zazen
when the
precepts and regulations is referring to really include the the entire corpus of monastic forms it
define our practice like a high
service with this could be the oreo to he specifically mentioned speeding regulations which
it means the entire meal ritual
it means everything we do actually wearing robes
shush you
the way we do service
take care of my life
he's all oriented around some forms which
really are what tassajara is even the form of tassajara itself being in the mountains on away from the city and place where it's rather quiet
where there's a good sandra is is included in his idea of a form of practice
so when you come to tassajara you really coming to a
form in regulation
you should follow
and he says
they're important that we should not be attached to them
and they are not a means means to enlightenment
i don't actually know it he actually says means to enlightenment this is a translation
that may be the translators interpolation so let's i don't want to be too concerned with what he means by means to enlightenment or whether there is a means or so forth that's not important and equity means is
not the fundamental not the most fundamental thing
not be the background
here's the forms but there's also the background of the spirit of the forms and this is what he's talking about
the spirit of the forms
he's not deforms the forms
as he says are a style
our way
as you know different places have different ways different style somewhat
so what does it mean to be attached to
the forms of practice
when when tessa her first starting
there was a kind of negative attachment maybe to the forms of practice
by that i mean people resisted the forms a lot
or yogi and so forth this new and because it was new people had an opportunity to fight it
bring out there alan watts books and d t suzuki books and proved that it was not necessary
to it was not museum is something old fashioned so it was quite a lot of that kind of feeling
ah and makes many people were angry at
various things that we were compelled to do in testify bowing all the time
while service itself in on early days of and sounds considered by many people to be a total waste of time just some
favre we were doing for suzuki roshi because he was japanese and what will he deal so we'd be nice to him new service but really it was not necessary
the to sophisticated or and well i should say
that may be unfair to the people i think they had some sincere
feeling that to is not so important
and it really is as what is important in actually dogan says so
the main thing is to sit
who's kind of negative attachment is
very natural for us because we don't tell
these forms don't seem so natural to us mean
our purpose in coming to practices quite
when we got
we're all converts you
one of us have grown up his buddhists accepting reforms is given
so there may be this kind of feeling that check
our forms or something to live with but not too except fully
it's something that goes along with being at tassajara we do them but with some sense of resistance or holding back separating ourselves from
the forms
you know this is not really my practice this is
my practice section section because i'm here i have to do these things but my real practices
this is how it exempts
you are you have some hidden
cave it
real practicing factors that you
produce with your body's
just some foreign
it's not informed with your full maybe your complete
this is mrs okay now this is not something
to criticize but it's something to notice anyway
when you have some question about what we do
might be useful to notice
notice it
if you don't want to do it that way what way will you do it
if you don't want to eat
or yorkie style or you don't want to chance
in japanese in in what way will you do it
what were you substitute for that way which we have
and on what authority will you follow it
the ways that we follow our
ah the legacy of generations of practitioners
and then
if you don't if you don't accept it fully and least you should know what you are not accepting
where on what basis you are not accepted
this is the situation i think you know this passage grew up
hmm i think we actually need some way of life as a group and as and students in america and is happy joe established our way of monastic life and china and think we must establish an american waves in life
but you have to be careful in the rules and way you establish if it is too strict you will fail if it is to loose the rules will not work
our way should be strict enough to have authority and authority everyone should obey the rules should be possible to observe this is has in tradition was built up decided little by little created by us in our practice
we cannot force anything but once the rules have been decided we should obey them completely until they are changed
it is not a matter of good or bad you just do it without question is that way your mind is free
the part i really was interested in there is
zen tradition has built up little by little
that little by little this
rather interesting because
we ourselves are going are are doing that now after some years
sahar and and sin
the source of our ways
lisa not yours or mine or
anyone's by this is built up little by little out of
it's like are channing you know
one person creates the channing and the channing that everyone creates is completely different
sound from the channing than any one person can create
that sound is
you can't you can't make that some yourself there's no way you yourself can
does that sound
and yet it's a very natural all we have to do is open our mouths and
and the sound is they're quite naturally there's no problem whore
difficulty in creating it
when we did their the diamond sutra few days ago we opened our mouths and it is the sound and it's the sound that i had never heard before in my life
everyone reading something different
yeah we knew all could do it immediately
and it was there
that's the way that i think we should
create our forms of practice
no one person
creates them but everyone should follow him
didn't know it doesn't it may not suit are completely your particular
so this is negative attachment to form
not not being completely willing to accept it
forms of practice
and that's it sure really if the if many of us now are so involved involving is kind of feeling because
i forms a pretty well established in we we come here with some preparation
right turn
the kind of attachment that may be dogan was talking about this meeting what you might say is positive attachment
clinging to for clinging to the forms in sunlight
positive way to perform some
at the forms are what our practices
if you deviate from the form you feel that your practices weekend nearby
where have you go to san francisco in feel that you can practice as well because
you can't follow the forms of practice if we have it doesn't heart
so you feel that the practice you're able to do it san francisco is inferior in sunlight to this practice or you
judge your practice elsewhere by the standards of toss a higher practice
are you judge others
on the basis of their ability or inability to
skillfully follow the forms
is this kind of feelings or it's the forms change you are upset
he's kind of feeling is insane
also pretty natural
feeling better
maybe both few kinds of feeling come from the same kind of source
which is
too much involvement with
what the self can know or do
here's a expression in san called them
mouse like a bent carrying pool
you know this impression said he gets more and winds up can you didn't hear
in coal
like this
you know i carry carrying pulling the orient they had these long poles and they kind of daniel nice cortina
they kind of been down the heavier the way the more than dancer
they met a phrase to describe i guess monks who had a that kind of expression

there are really strict months you
yeah they probably never smile just touch with their mouth you know that one
it said
i rarely the first time i came across the phrase i realized that it was an exact description of like math
i stopped the
i mean real effort to
the picture
he wasn't so easy to smile for a while
like gosh
like baker she you know it is wasting teeth isn't my dental work man
it's not so hard now with that timeless
i'm i'm remembering how how funny it was it
excuse me
hug don't get me started with
it's countries that have been created it's a working
yeah anywhere
you know this is expression of of summer
artificial strictness would you impose on top of the strictness it's already there
as as she said our practice is already pretty
what we do is enough me
before you add to it
you should find out if your practices perfect
with what we have under
if a form good
it forms a practice are the practice then
this stone buddha is practicing perfectly better than you
yeah because it always successor in perfect posture
so it's really it's absurd to think that ah
because you can do things pretty well or
you follow the precepts quite strictly rigidly or
you're quite careful
to follow never just feel super for
i always to arrange your robes properly something like this makes you a good student
it doesn't make you anything you want to say it just makes you someone who is
doing those things and that's all
and particularly if it gives rise to some criticism those who
you feel are not so skillful
with our forms this
without question
makes your practice in pure
hmm not too long ago i happened to be
standing by when i heard someone criticise summerhouse
necessity new it's certainly function it was just jam
some comparison
her son something that to someone notice to know but the person criticize got quite angry because it turn
he's quilliam
i've been pounded her it wasn't appropriate to say so
and yet
have you read certain books about xanax sounds like the months spent their time
shouting at one another a lot
maybe they did i don't know this movies again some skype birthday
if they did so even if they did so it will so
the motivation was always should always be
deep compassion and and desire to it should come out of your desire to help people to help some always
and even then if it's not your position to
this so you you probably should
often not do so let someone whose position of is to say so do it
you know our rank or not rank but to our positions and toss a heart and is also a very important form which we have
this is a form of practice which he was very important
the tensor was in charge of the kitchen
hypertens i was in charge of the kitchen you should not go into the kitchen say anything
here's a story in which even the abbot was criticized by the ten zero four
saying something in the kitchen i think you maybe regime told the story of someone told mr
the i get out
and they have it left know who understood
i'm not that you should imitate
that was just a story

just a shallow
the form of the practices
just the shell
just an empty shell what's inside is what counts
and even if someone can't do anything if their shoulders
ah not so good looking
what's inside
if there is some sincere practitioner inside
excuse me what they're saying so but how dare you criticize
such a person
even if they can't do anything
this is your stories in buddhism which which express this which are very beautiful stories which we we see some beauty and like the story of the sixteen dar hot
who was so stupid that he couldn't understand even one word of the suture but
buddha gave me job sweeping
canada he swept his way to our you
he became an r are just by sweeping was all he could do but he did it for many years
basically falling buddhist way
so i can
when be an egg or something it has a shell
which is growing
when the outside you can't tell whether an egg is just it's shell or
show in
body of the egg until you examine it more closely
from inside
so that from outside that she all looks the same
so as stone buddha looks the same as a living buddha where are you
but if you examine it closely stone buddha is dead
material and you are
alive and growing
and even though your form is not perfect your posture is not perfect
you can
actually grow into something
stone buddha is just a representation of
it may look as though the shell restrains the egg
in confines the egg and limits the possibilities of the a
and destroys the spontaneity
we feel as though you haven't much spun eighty here
because our forms or
where district him
you can express yourself you think
what without the shell the end
guys cannot develop because the shell
nurtures that space
in which the eight can grow and become something
who was gossip
have your practice which is called are forms of practice like the shell of the edges
gives you space to grow up
and fill out that space
i was talking to a sculptor who is said
teaching kids how to work with clay and
who said that his first exercise gave him us to do an egg
and he said on sherman who will do name
and ten minutes
and they started to work in
i thought it is very very shoot at him to do that you may learn that checking the sculptor school but in a is very very hard very hard it's one of the hardest shapes to do yeah because we know what an egg looks like you can you can see the unsatisfactory quality of your production it's just not it looks pretty much like an egg
egg is very beautiful because it's sin rather beyond our ability to reproduce it's form so easily it's not a form that comes out of our
surface effort at all
maybe a kind of form which comes out of our surface effort would be a box or something
we are cooking our society you know our technological society be prepared
forums like that you know boxes and squares and things but
forms that we can understand with our with our conceptual mind
in which can be measured in
replicated exactly
it inform like an egg is so beautiful
because it's almost beyond our
capacity to understand how it was created
in the same way that are forms of practice of some the
aesthetic satisfactory us
one surface mine
i figured it out
no one ah
scientific genius created these forms
these forms are alive like an egg
and ah
grew like an egg by evolution
the many generations of
patriarchs and practitioners
and yeah
it's just a big
room for us to
give birth to ourselves in
there's no need to worry about whether we can do it or whether they're good enough
what anything
we even though we say shiva were
you know conduct she got far meter
this is the final technical term for
precepts and regulations
maybe i begun to wonder if i think that maybe is
actually done given is the actual
you know form
with sheila like we have at tassajara we we can give something to each other which is not a square box with sharp corners that is something beautiful
in which we can grow
attachment sell
not a means either because even
when you become a bird
you still live in me saying
ah shell is everyone else in the following strictly the
rules of conduct appropriate for a buddhist practitioner

when you stand in chashu

it's not a way to have you but away to
as rex was talking about yesterday
a way to
let you stand freely
holding i still holding onto a big killer
he says the fifteenth practice free pass a higher
when can i counted wrong first time we said sixteen of sanction fifteen in either way it's quite a few practice periods
when i first came i didn't think that was so much but now i think it's quite wonderful
but that is the case
linda i'm very
happy to be here
in some way i can't really describe
what i'm saying
top to too long so and the north was time for you to ask anything but if you want to
i'll try say something
brexit decision
you mean referring to our instruction to to stand that way slightly
did you hear all here is question
your question is what have i think
well i think refs is wonderful person
and yeah i wouldn't turn
i would hesitate to say anything
about it
except you just take it as at face value that's what that's what he said
i think what in said was was that he wasn't been to he wasn't been to rigorous but what he said i think the feeling of what he said is are feeling good i think
he he was demonstrating something
giving us some very quick way to
get get a feeling for balance you know i mean
he said something stand this way and was dan this way you feel the difference kind of thing so it was kind of a demonstration i couldn't go
and i think essentially here
he was corroborating are our way out of his own experience
yeah my own experience
he noticed that some album
because always come up when you go through appearance get our ah
you're not comfortable with hair loss
because like me
this is all
one breath
yeah you run with you
risk of different
well i i think maybe young
maybe you were maybe your what we really saves you toes should be in line here
the your nipples are symptom this kind of feeling
i don't know if reid if you were doing that before that maybe your you are too much this way
and bringing it in this way as more actually correct
maybe it's not a question of parallel and towed out but just
becoming more sensitive to the real meaning of the of a point i think is is to stand in a way which is appropriate to your body mind
and that's everyone's way standard is a little different
so i think if you feel more balanced the way you standing now it's probably more correct
you may not be aware how slight a chain it may just be a very slight change you know but it because it has it as you have to said quite an effect you may feel as though you feed it moved in some some miles julie just a very small distance
it is the people worthy charity you drop your emphasize them
what has been more didn't means
i don't dare not possible to understand as a and bachelor
hoping that this is sad
know that direction just what they are
who gives a or it
you think it into what i said to the question is performed to really experience
expedient means for what in life
improving yourself
do you think that in my talk i emphasize that that side more media
have to grow the finding and
hey if it if they were expired
he means is that job feel okay to you do you have some difficulty with they would have is right now
graham's the my friend right now
the writing to experian means taking away
take take
that's different
will be on our forums are rooted in right now
aren't art forms all rooted in right now
i think is
well they really write down there are also in right now
have thought that we have a bug
hmm that that is the rebellion stage from now future
don't have found a room with the president
yeah but strictly speaking there is no rule which would follow in the future
you know
he's only the rule that we follow right now and death
if the situation comes up you know situations made them up where there's no
pattern you know
you should you should done
be free from
you should be able to respond the matter what happens
you can you make a mistake somewhere you should know what to do
this this comes up with the dawn's particularly because are what they do is
pretty strictly regulated in sometimes situation comes up where it said
there's an unprecedented change but this is also true in our daily life too
sometimes your face with situation that to there's no precedent for it never hurts to steady pace with risk and when we never we do have specific
why or why we haven't
no obvious route
what can you give me some specific example maybe more or anything usa why we going
where are we doing and why do we have to do service where we were we get up to five point of you
he look at every five this for the bridge you're getting the five of young working
because we don't have to do that will using a headset you've got something
you tried make a good
while i don't think there's actually need convincing answer to your question that i i i'm
no are but on one purpose it seems to be fulfilled for you is that it gives you an opportunity to question
that's important in itself
when should be some questioning in buddhism
so that's kind of nice
i you like to question
well maybe this gives you are not a chance to focus focus in with questioning energy
with a magnifying glass you can burn a piece of paper
so that's a left within the on direct t v are
for the definitely help them so that i can have a go to your competition
that's right
i'm not just joking i think that's true
will find your videos
more important here
then conviction

hope you don't mean conviction as
it was a sentence comes after three years

you can send to three years it has to her

which is more important for you
without conviction
some repeated practice