Well, thank you all for coming out on a morning like this. It's really, I'm wet through and through. My robes are wet all the way. This morning is our young people's lecture. So the first part of the lecture will be devoted, I'll be talking to the young people who are sitting in front, and you, everybody else can listen too. And then they'll go off and have their own little program, and we'll continue here. Okay? So I know some of you, but I don't know all of you. I'm really glad you came this morning. I wanted to tell you a story, and I want to thank my son, Davey, who actually gave me the idea for the lecture. I said, now, what shall I talk about for the kids' lecture? And he said, right away, he said, how about the story of the country mouse and the city mouse? Do you know that story, some of you? Yeah? Okay, well, I'm going to tell it again,

[01:03]

and then we can talk about it a little bit. So there were two friends, and they lived, one of them lived in the city, like probably a lot of you do, or in a town, and the other one lived out in the country, like some of the kids here do, too. And they were friends, so the country mouse wrote to her friend in the city and invited her out to have a meal out in the country. And the city mouse agreed, and she got in her special coach and drove all the way out to the country and joined her friend in the little cottage that she had. And because it was a party, her friend, the country mouse, put out all the best things that she had, crusts of moldy bread and old leftover oatmeal and little bits of cheese that she kind of stored for several months.

[02:04]

She brought these things out, and because her friend, the city mouse, was so polite, she ate everything up, and she had seconds, and when she was all full, she said to her friend, the country mouse, Oh, my dear, how is it that you can live like this? Please, why don't you come back with me into the city and stay with me? We have so many lovely things there, and you'll just enjoy it so much. Why don't you come with me? And the country mouse thought, Well, gee, that sounded pretty interesting, pretty fun, and they decided to leave that very night. And they got into the coach, which was drawn by some little animals, and with footmen, sort of like Cinderella's coach, very fancy, and they drove into the city, to this big house, and there was a little door at the side, which was her friend's entrance. And they came in, and there had been a party that night in the big house, and her friend said,

[03:06]

Well, this is where I keep my food, this is my larder, and there was fruit and cheeses and cakes. And what was that, I wonder? Windows. And they came into the big dining room, and there was a big turkey left over and cake and nuts and fruit, and oh, the country mouse had never seen such delicious tidbits. So they sat on a velvet couch, and they had little special napkins with all these different foods, and they began eating, and the country mouse said, Well, I've never seen such a thing. I'm so glad I came. I think I'll probably stay here. She was imagining what it would be like to live in the city when all of a sudden, the door opened, and in came some late night bullies that lived in the house with their big dogs, barking and yapping, and they came into the dining room. They had been out partying.

[04:07]

After their party, they had gone out, and they were coming back, and the city mouse said, Run for your life! And she dived behind the cushions, and the country mouse was so bewildered, she didn't know what to do. She didn't know where to go, and she was frozen. And here were coming the dogs, and she finally found someplace to hide, and shivering and waiting. Well, finally, the gentleman and their dogs left and went back away from the dining room, and her friend, the city mouse, crept out, and the country mouse said, Well, I don't much care for your life here. I'd rather be nibbling moldy crusts of bread without fear in my cottage than eat the most delicious dainties in fear of my life with you. And she packed up her stuff, got into the coach, and left. And the last picture in the picture book we have, she's coming into her cottage, and it has the little gingham curtains

[05:09]

and her little teapot and her sewing basket. Ah, she just comes in. She's so happy to be back home. So, what do you think about that story? Elisa? I think that if you should have things that you... If you're going to have really good things, you should also feel comfortable in the place that you have them. Yes, yes. If you're growing up somewhere and you have something else, and you have something you really, really like, and then something really dangerous happens, then I wouldn't be there. If I was a mouse, I wouldn't be there. If I was a person... Uh-huh. Okay, Pump. I think that it's nice to have lots of clean and nice food,

[06:10]

but it's better to have moldy and old food than to be in danger. So feeling safe is really one of the most important things, isn't it? Moldy food, though. Yeah, moldy food is pretty hard to eat. Zach? I think it's better to live someplace where you don't have always the best things that come to you, but to live in happiness and not fear, like the city mouse. She had all this great stuff, but she was always in the fear that those bully mice would come and get her. Yeah. Yes, I think you really got the point of the story. When we asked Davey what the underlying meaning of the story was, he said, to be content with what you have, and I feel like that's what you're all talking about. And also being free from fear. It seems like a really important thing to feel contented and happy

[07:13]

is to feel free from fear, too. You know, there's this sutra that we chant called the Sutra of Loving Kindness, and it's about how to be happy, actually, really. And one of the things that says a very happy thing to feel is to be easily contented, to be easily contented and joyous. So sometimes just the fact that we think about wanting lots and lots and lots of things, that itself, even the thinking about it, will make us feel unhappy. And then when we get the things, we think we're going to be happy, but then have you ever had the experience where you get a special toy and you're really glad to have it and then it breaks or someone takes it? So even having special things sometimes won't make you happy because then you have the anxiety of the fear that someone might take them. So, thank you very much for your comments.

[08:19]

Is there anything else you want to bring up or ask about? Okay, so are you ready for, you're going to go with Fu and Margo and Liz? Okay, well, thank you very much for coming. Do you know how to bow, everybody? Put your palms together and bow. That means lots of things, but this time it means thank you and goodbye. Okay? Thank you. If anyone would like to come up and sit on cushions up closer, you're welcome to.

[09:33]

There's plenty of seats today because not as many people came out. Thank you. So today is a very auspicious day in a lot of ways. It's the full moon. This morning we had our full moon ceremony. Can you hear me all right? Yeah? Our full moon ceremony. It's also the monthly memorial ceremony for Suzuki Roshi. So we had that ceremony this morning. And then this afternoon in the San Francisco Center Zen Mind Beginner's Mind Temple, we will have a ceremony called the Shin San Shiki, which is called the Mountain Seat Ceremony.

[10:37]

And this is a ceremony for installing a new abbot or abbess into a temple. So that will take place this afternoon in the city. How many of you are planning on attending that? Some of you are. Good. Okay. This is also the anniversary, the year anniversary of the day that former abbot Ten Shin Anderson stepped down from being abbot. That was on February 4th. And then February 5th tomorrow is the year anniversary of Norman Fisher's installation ceremony, Mountain Seat Ceremony. So this time of year for these last couple of years has been a time of ceremonies. And it's interesting because on February 2nd, which is Groundhog Day, it's also one of the points of the calendar, one of the eight cardinal, I guess you'd call it cardinal points of the calendar. It's called Candlemas, or the earlier name of it was the Feast of Brigid, who was a fire goddess.

[11:48]

And this time of year, and it's interesting, before I was looking at this, it occurred to me, gee, it's really getting lighter. I was driving the kids home at 5 o'clock and it wasn't pitch dark. And I was thinking, oh, the days are really lengthening now. And the plum blossom tree was blooming and it's really coming, spring is coming, and I could feel it. And this is that time of year when you really begin to feel it. The winter solstice when the sun begins to turn back, you don't really feel it for weeks, really, the actual lengthening of the days. But right around February 2nd, which is Groundhog Day, and these other feasts, is the time when you begin to feel it. So it's marked on the calendar. It's the waxing of the light. And this is also a time for initiation, for creative work, for new beginnings.

[12:54]

And the seeds that are in the ground are just beginning to stir. They've been down in the dark, dormant, and kind of gathering their energies, and now they begin to move out. And this is that time of year. So it's a perfect time to have a ceremony. Hi. Oh, you're looking for the kids? Yes. Yeah, they're over in the small dining room. Thank you. Yeah. They were late. So this time of year of new beginnings and stirrings and new seeds coming is a perfect time to have this ceremony. So the person being installed is, many of you know her, Shunpo Blanche Hartman. She lived here for a number of years. She's been around Zen Center for a long time.

[13:55]

I hope they find their way. No, I think they will. It's fine. She began practice in the maturity of her years when she was in her 40s, and she had four children at the time and began seriously practicing with Suzuki Roshi and in Berkeley at the Berkeley Zen Center. And I've always admired Blanche. She has a number of skills that I had known nothing about. For example, during World War II, she was an airplane mechanic. And also when she lived in Tassar, she was head of the shop. She could do plumbing and things like that. And she was asked by the former abbot, Zentatsu Richard Baker, back in the 70s,

[15:04]

to study with a sewing teacher from Japan, a nun named Joshin-san, who taught the making of Buddha's robe, this robe that we wear that's hand-sewn. And it's done in a very particular way according to a very old tradition. And Blanche studied with her and received this teaching and then became the main sewing teacher here and taught a number of other people who are now also teaching sewing. So many, many people have sewn with her, either for lay ordination, the little Raksus, the miniature Buddha's robe, or also the big robe, the Okesa. So the name of this ceremony is Ascending the Mountain. And all the temples in Japan, somebody correct me if I'm wrong on this, but the temples have the word Ji at the end.

[16:05]

And that Ji means temple and means mountain. So all the temples are considered mountains. And Sonoma Mountain, Abbot Jaksho Kuang's temple in Sonoma is called Sonoma Mountain. And Tassajara Zen Mountain Center, Zen Shinji. And this is Soryu-ji, Green Dragon Temple or Green Dragon Mountain, you could also translate it as. And the city is Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind Temple. So climbing the mountain is actually climbing the seat of the temple or the mountain. It's kind of both. The mountain symbolically is this, you know, it's a big bulky piece of earth, you know,

[17:12]

that sits there kind of immortal, that kind of an immortal feeling about it. And it's been associated in historically or prehistorically with the womb and a seat of power, mountains. In fact, in Greece and Macedonia and Crete, Cretan lands, there's on top of mountains, there's often a throne or seat that's carved out of the rock that sits up on top of the mountain. So having a seat on the mountain is a very old symbol, actually, the mountain seat. And the first seat, of course, is the lap, a human person's lap. And the sitting in the lap of your mother or sitting in the lap of someone you love, out of there you feel empowered, empowered to go off and be yourself and do what you need to do.

[18:19]

So these mountain thrones or seats that were carved out symbolize this. And also kings and queens, they would sit in the throne. For example, there's a picture of an Egyptian king sitting in the throne, which is the goddess Isis's body, making the throne. And the king is kind of a little mortal-looking person sitting in this gigantic throne, out of which he receives the mandate to rule. So mountain seat and throne are quite intertwined as a symbol system. I looked up the word throne, the word throne itself, and I was really happy to find out about the root of the word throne, which I'll tell you about. It means seat or support, thronos in Greek,

[19:23]

and in Latin firmus or firm, firmly supported, and affirm and confirm. And in Sanskrit, the root is the word dharma. The word throne and dharma are etymologically connected in Sanskrit. So dharma as firmly supporting, firmly planted law. So when Blanche climbs the mountain seat, she actually climbs the seat of the dharma to take her place. The ceremony is very elaborate. I was there yesterday for the rehearsal. We had two rehearsals, each several hours long, and while we were there, the entire building was being cleaned from top to bottom. There were people up on ladders with practically, they didn't have toothbrushes,

[20:24]

but they had little claws, and they were doing the chandeliers in the uppermost windows, and all around they were dusting and scrubbing and cleaning windows and painting, retouching the walls, and they had neglected to bring wet paint, so a number of people had come away with paint all over their clothes. But anyway, so really making the building clean and sparkling, kind of beautiful, getting ready for this auspicious ceremony taking place this afternoon. So everyone working together in order to make this happen. Lots of food being cooked. There's going to be a big reception afterwards. A lot of people coming from all over to participate, make statements. So the ceremony starts. I just thought for those of you not attending, I would say a little bit about how the ceremony goes. They don't happen that often, and the abbess goes to a waiting room.

[21:30]

Because all of our buildings were not originally built as Zen temples, everything is a little bit, what shall I say, make-do. So instead of waiting at some sub-temple outside the grounds or something, she's in the guest house down the street from Zen Center waiting in the hospice. Actually, it's the hospice house. And she has tea and waits, and people come and greet her and welcome her, or she welcomes people who are coming. And then the procession goes up the street and arrives at the front porch of Zen Center, which is the gate. There's not really a gate there, but that's the part of the ceremony where you offer incense at the gate to the temple. And then she comes in and goes down to the zendo and offers incense and is led around the zendo. Then she comes back up and into the Buddha Hall where people are waiting and their statements made, incense offered.

[22:34]

She offers incense to the protectors of the Dharma, the protectors of the practice. Hi. Have a seat. Or you can sit down here too if you want to sit on cushions. Then she also offers incense at Bodhidharma's altar for the teaching of the ancestors. And then from there she goes up to the Founder's Hall and she's shown certain documents of the temple and the temple seal. She inspects that and offers incense. Yes, she does offer incense there. Then more things happen. That's the first part of the ceremony. Then there's a kind of intermission, and then she comes back in and it's time to present her teaching. And she receives a special teaching robe from the sangha and makes various statements, appreciatory statements, personal statements, a statement about her understanding of a koan,

[23:38]

thanking statements to her teachers. And then there's a question and answer Dharma, not exactly combat, but exchange of teaching and other statements from other people. Meanwhile, she has five attendants who are busily holding her staff and handing her incense, turning on her microphone, putting her chair down. It's very elaborate and lots of fun also. She climbs the mountain. Actually, we've built up a mountain and that's climbed. And then she descends the mountain and just thanks everyone, and that's pretty much the end of the ceremony after some concluding statements. So it's several hours long, and it takes everyone, really.

[24:40]

No one could do this ceremony alone. It takes the entire sangha and everyone's goodwill to make this happen. You know, I want to bring this aspect up of the whole ceremony, and I'm a little hesitant because it's not that easy to talk about, but I thought I would bring it up anyway. Blanche was wondering whether or not to use the word abbot or abbess for the title. And at Zen Center, for years, we've been working with language as knowing the power of language and the power of the word. We've been working a lot with the sutras, retranslating the sutras to be gender, not gender-specific, be more gender-inclusive.

[25:44]

But certain words like the word monk, we've tended to make genderless. Anybody at Tassajara is a monk at Tassajara. We don't say monks and nuns. Somehow monk has gotten to be just an overall term for a student practicing in a monastery. And when it came time to choose between abbess and abbot, there was a group of people who felt, well, let's do abbot in the same way as we've said monk. We've made monk lose its, at least within Zen Center, lose the charge that it has that it's male. And how about with abbot? And just call everybody abbot, whoever is the head of the temple. And then the other side of it is the word abbot itself means father, and the word in Japanese is another word that doesn't necessarily mean father. It means one who abides and maintains.

[26:46]

So the abbot stays put, abides at the temple and keeps the temple going and is there for people over time, that kind of feeling. So it doesn't carry necessarily a strong connotation of father, the way the word abbot does. Abbot comes from the Aramean or the Hebrew, Abba. Anyway, it's father. And the word abbess, there's some sense that it diminishes in some way the way the word poetess and actress and waitress were kind of dropped by a lot of people and just poet and actors. But after talking about this at length and with a number of people, Blanche and I also agree and a number of other people agree that the word abbess itself has its own dignity and history

[27:48]

and is a useful word to have actually used. And it's confusing because abbot, you know, to say abbot Shunpo Hartman, if you don't say Blanche, you wouldn't know necessarily it was a man or a woman. So it is clear. So she used the word abbess. And our bylaws actually say it as well, abbot or abbess. So in terms of Buddhism historically and Zen Center in particular, around the issues of gender, I bring this up as a practice issue because for so many people, it's very important to have a model, to have a reflection as an encouragement. To continue your practice. So if you never see, if you're a woman student

[28:50]

and you never see a woman speaking from this platform or leading a ceremony or taking certain responsibilities, one may get the sense that you don't have the capacity or there's some inadequacy there. Well, how come? So the importance of having usable, accurate models as a practice encouragement seems to be very important. And in Buddhism you can find both the negative around women, you know, you can find lots of statements negatively talking about women's spiritual capacities as well as statements that say there is no difference whatsoever between women and men, and also statements that say sometimes it's better to be a woman,

[29:51]

there's more capacity. You can find all of that in the Buddhist literature. And now this is a kind of subtle point that I want to try and get across, which is there are many examples, or I should say there are some examples, of women practitioners and enlightened beings, both mythical, legendary, and historical, that you can find in Buddhist teachings. And often these women are just exceptional. They are like the foremost of those who understand wisdom or yogic powers or whatever it is. They're like the top, toppermost. So they're great heroines, and at the same time the fact that, and see if you can go with me on this,

[30:53]

the fact that they are so kind of way far and above makes them, and I owe this kind of discussion to Rita Gross and her book Buddhism After Patriarchy, makes them become like tokens. Well, there's the token women enlightened beings. And this can be used to actually discourage or denigrate. So, yes, you can point to, here's a woman who's fully realized herself and fully enlightened. So what's the problem with you? Why, if this woman can do it, then you can do it too. So it becomes a blaming of the person's own capacities, rather than seeing these people as off the charts

[31:56]

and why not, what about the vast number of not totally, totally exceptional women practitioners, the vast number who are just as competent as the vast number of men who are practicing whose practice is encouraged and fostered and helped. Did you see, did you follow that? Somebody's shaking their head, no. At any rate, to feel like you have to be the topper-most of the topper-most in order to be encouraged in your spiritual life. So at Zen Center, I remember, even though now it seems a little odd, I can remember the first time a woman was the head student at Tassajara. Now, right now, the head students are chosen just who's ready,

[32:58]

whose time it is, seniority, and man or woman is really not part of the discussion. But there was a time when there had not been a woman at Tassajara as the head student, which was the main place. We now have head students here and City Center, but Tassajara was the place. And it was a big deal, you know, it was a big deal to be the first one. I think it was Catherine Thanis who was the first one, and Blanche was next. And the first time a woman gave a Dharma talk, right now we have a lot of women who give Dharma talks at all three places, but the first time it was not the norm, you know. So I feel that Blanche, there's this wonderful story I want to tell about her. She was at Tassajara, she was teaching, she gave a Dharma talk,

[33:59]

and someone in the assembly afterwards said, couldn't your lecture be more deep? Couldn't you give a more deep talk? And Blanche said something like, you know, I do my best, or something like that. So I felt that she is who she is, she's doing her best, she's practicing the Dharma, and she's going to continue doing that. And whether or not you appreciated her talk or understood it, the way she meant it or anything, it doesn't matter. And just very simple feeling, I just, I try my best. I remember at Mel's, Sochin Mel Weitzman's installation ceremony, which was a little bit smaller, actually, he said, one of his statements that he said was, I'm not very good. And I remember when I heard that, I felt somehow very encouraged,

[35:07]

somehow, for him to say, I'm not very good, but this same feeling of, I'm trying, and I'm not going to stop trying, and also this feeling of thanking you all for supporting me and fostering me, and whether or not I'm super exemplary, exceptional, out-of-this-world teacher, still, you know, thank you for wanting me to do this. And I feel the same with Blanche. I feel her taking this position is because we're all, she could not take this position without people supporting her. You cannot take the Dharma seat. You can't take the mountain, you can't climb it by yourself and sort of using other people in order to climb up.

[36:09]

One of the precepts is, a disciple of the Buddha does not praise self at the expense of others. So if you find you're praising yourself by subtly or grossly putting other people down, this is, one needs to look there. So what's happening there? What is that praising self about if you need to do it at the expense of others? So for Blanche to be able to climb, literally climb this mountain, and there's these steps that go up, it's all covered in yellow cloth, and she climbs up, she needs literally the help. She has a staff and it has to be handed to someone. Her five jishas are holding things. But besides her attendance, the entire sangha has brought her to this day. In the wedding ceremony it says, your parents, your friends, all beings have brought you here to this day,

[37:15]

to the couple that's standing there. And this is, more and more I'm feeling that this is not just a figure of speech. Oh yeah, thanks to everybody, great, thanks a lot. But it really is that you cannot be there without everyone's support. So the name of this person being installed is the shinmei, which means new life, shinmei. So the shinmei in this time of year, this new seed, this new life is beginning a new life as the abbess from this dharma seat, this throne, this dharma mountain seat. And she can't do this without our help and without our giving this to her. There's another shinmei or new life that I want to tell you about.

[38:22]

This is a baby who was just born a couple of weeks ago to some friends of mine. And this baby was born to a mother who decided to give her up for adoption. And my friends are the adoptive parents and I don't know the birth mother. And the baby had difficulties. Right after she was born she was whisked by jet plane actually to the hospital into an ICU because of some problems with her lungs. And so that can be very difficult. It was difficult for everyone. And when she came out of the hospital the birth mother hadn't even gotten to see her except right at the birth after she was born she handed her to the adoptive mother who was there, they were at the birth. It's an open adoption. She handed her the baby as a gesture of, I do thoroughly give you this child. She gave it to her right away.

[39:23]

And then there were these complications and the baby was whisked off. So after I think it was about seven or eight days in the ICU the baby was fine and came out. And then they spent some time with the birth mother, the adoptive parents and the birth mother. They got adjoining hotel rooms just to have some closure on this. And at a certain point the birth mother was having a really difficult time and she asked if she could keep the baby overnight in her room. And the adoptive parents, who had already signed the papers, felt it was hard for them, this was hard, but they actually decided it was the best thing to do to let the birth mother have the child overnight.

[40:28]

And during that night, which was kind of a dark night of the soul you might say, the adoptive mother really worked on what she was feeling, what was going on and her fears and her love for this child and finally settled, found her seat and realized that she could not take this baby, even though the papers were signed, unless this baby were given again, given back again. It would not work if she would take something that wasn't given, even though legally and all she had her case. And she told that to the birth mother the next morning. And she kept her another day, I think, and another night,

[41:29]

but finally, and during the day the adoptive mother would visit and they'd talk, but finally at the end she was ready again and she then gave the baby back. So there's another precept, which is a disciple of the Buddha does not take what is not given, or does not steal you can say, but does not take what is not given. And you actually can't take what isn't given. You can't. Maybe you can take it in some, you may feel like you've taken it, but the reverberations and the difficulties around taking what is not given are there. So somehow to find the place where non-attachment, where there's just non-attachment. And Suzuki Roshi says, just non-attachment is giving.

[42:35]

That's what giving is, is non-attachment. Just living a life of non-attachment is a life of dana, or giving. So when this adoptive mother settled with this thoroughly, this in itself was giving the birth mother full, a wide field really to work out what she needed to work out and be able to give it back. So everything in the universe comes together to help you and you can't do it without everyone. Okay, thank you very much.

[43:41]

May our intention equally... I tried to remark that his anger towards me is that I have ended up learning more from him, which I didn't know and I had no way of knowing, but he had a way of knowing. So I'm faced with a situation where I understand where this man's anger is coming from. I feel very hurt. And the feminist in me, urged by many, so many, has said, you must confront this person and say what you would feel. And the Buddhist in me says, let it go. And I haven't solved it. One week I feel calm and I let it go and the next week I think, I have to say something that doesn't feel good.

[44:48]

So I'm not quite sure what my question is. I'm just going to make a statement of that. Yes, yes. Well... It would seem like two ends of a pull, kind of a continuum, to just forget about it, don't, you know, let it go, and then to kind of... So what is it that would bring both your feminist, and the way I define feminist is, you know, a devotion or commitment to male and female equality or something like that. So how can you bring that in as well as your Buddhist understanding of anger, of relationship,

[45:54]

of hurt, of pain, of suffering, you know, what is it... Maybe these are just questions to ask yourself. What is it you can say that would benefit him, that would benefit you, that would not create more anger and more... that would be honest, that would be the right time and place. You know, the Buddha spoke when four things were in place, that the thing was true, first of all, that it was a benefit, and then the other two are that it was the right time and the right place. So it may be truthful, but to tell that person may not be a benefit, or it may be truthful and a benefit, but it's not the right time, they can't hear it. You know, you have to pull those things in, and what is it do you want to say? You know? I hurt. Yeah, maybe it's just down to that. I guess I could just say I hurt without asking for it.

[46:55]

I don't expect him to roll on his back and say, May I pull... and say, May I pull back, I did wrong. I don't expect that. It hurts. Yes. To be treated that way by someone who was a friend and a colleague, and to leave an institution where you had been a teacher for 25 years, and to be told you don't deserve to have a retirement celebration, you know, that was one of many things that happened, and it still hurts. I don't know whether, you know, is it our responsibility to point out to another human being how they hurt us, or is it part of our teaching to experience it and say,

[47:58]

I'm going to let this go. Yeah. Well, there's not a formula, you know, that you can apply to every situation. Each situation will call up its own needs, you know. And, you know, in some situations, it's not going to do any good. You do just have to let it go and deal with it personally or interpsychically. But there's other situations where you have to deal with it interpersonally. You see this person all the time. You have friends and colleagues in common. And you cannot just sweep it under the rug, you know. It will come up in a distorted fashion, you know. So I don't think it's our job to point out other people's faults, but, you know, and say, you did this to me.

[49:02]

But more like, you know, the whole thing with communication skills of I statements. You know, I was hurt. I was really hurt. And also how you feel about this person still. And maybe that would be enough. I mean, whether or not, and also feeling like whatever they say, not being attached necessarily to the outcome, that they get it, that they apologize, that they are ashamed of themselves, that they, anything, you know, to not leap to how it's all going to turn out, but just completely stay with how you're feeling. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. Last week I had a talk with my teacher here.

[50:04]

And this is the first time I've ever heard of it. A year or two ago. And she told me that I should, I'm feeling a big change in my life. The realization that my children are really growing, and the youngest one is going to be maybe six months to finish school. And everybody is going out to California. It's like, it's a really big thing. Like, wow, what am I doing here? You know, I want to be here. And I feel this tremendous pain that's in front of me. And then I was thinking this week, I said, that's my heart's pain. The people, my children, who really feel my heart are going off into their life. So my teacher told me that I'm looking for a place to go through this. And I said to myself, deeper into what I love that I'm doing.

[51:12]

And I said, I like that. And I don't know, I just said, I like this. This morning has just been wonderful. And then somebody came to me and asked me, did I want to participate in something that's not hospice? Yes, I'd like to. And then someone downstairs came up and said, I'm going to come to Harvard next summer. I said, wow. It was such a nice thing for someone. You know, someone said that. And sort of invites in a special way and feels, you know, like the universe saying, why don't you do this? And then we thought, you know, my son and his girlfriend would like to come here next week and participate in that exhibit. And we started talking about, I think it seems to tell you about having a dream, which I think I'm talking about religion. And I've been thinking about, you know, the step to be able to stop it and say, wow, I've been thinking about that. And it seems like a tremendous step. And part of my problem with this,

[52:14]

besides the fact that I'm taking it seriously, I'm serious about myself, besides the fact that I was raised, I was in a Catholic religion for 35 years. And I don't like the Catholic religion. I don't like it. Like, I can't say that I'm not a part of that church, but it's a part of me. How do I take these doubts and do something? And I feel like in some way, even though I have these feelings about the Catholic religion, it feels strange to just throw it out of my head. But he said that he started saying, he had a certain dream, about sewing. And the thought came about, that there would be a way to sew that into the rock. To make it a part of the model. So that it would draw, it would be woven together. I didn't have a choice. And that's what I feel weird about doing that.

[53:15]

And not that anyone's asking me to do that, but when you don't, when you think you won't be much of a mother, maybe it's not really that, it's just like, it goes from the steps I took, to the next step, to the next step. But that was a really nice thought, which was, sew it. Sew it in. Sew it into it. Well, maybe it's one thing about, Buddhism, it doesn't, you don't necessarily, you don't have to throw out, your religion of origin, in order to practice, or sit down then, or, even receive the precepts. I know, is there anybody in the room, who's had that kind of, you know, hustle, with their religion of origin, and being lay ordained? Yes? Interesting thing for me, being a survivor of Catholicism, is that,

[54:20]

if Buddhism has allowed me to access Christianity, in a way that I couldn't growing up, I often wonder, if I grew up as a child in Buddhism, if I would have been confronted with, dharma and ritual, rather than, St. Augustine's version. And that, studying Buddhism has allowed me to see, Christianity, as it is in its best sense, and shouldn't be. And how, there is no difference, almost. The difference for me is that, Catholics, if you don't believe in transubstantiation, say, you don't be one of us. Buddhists say, if you can't handle the idea of Catholicism, dharma, karma, or whatever, you can still do it. You just come to where you are. And, last week, threat from the Madison spot, pushed my buttons all over the place,

[55:20]

because I thought, I heard the big judgment, God said, from the way he described it. The way he was speaking to Carmen, I got angry, because I thought he was giving a, a low interest, high ability talk, on a Sunday morning, and wasn't willing to engage that level of, the question and answer period. So that, when he was speaking to the Catholic issues, I noticed what, I resisted, practice, so much, which is about, when I come up against what seems like a rule or regulation, or seems dogma, and how much, I embrace it, because it allows me to be, where I am, and investigate. Thank you. I love my religion of origin, and I think it's incredibly exciting, and, I practice it quite a bit,

[56:23]

but one of the things that, occurred to me in your very brief talk, which I, I felt was very brief, I felt it very briefly, in so many different ways, one of the things that we spoke about, you were talking about something that always interests me, the way that, etymology connects, you know, affirm, and firm, and sitting, and, I wanted to add something that, connects both Judaism and Christianity, and that is that from, in Hebrew, to sit, is l'shevet, and, from l'shevet, comes the word Shabbat, which is the day of, sitting, it's the, ceremonial celebratory day, and from Shabbat, comes Sabbath, and, so what we're really talking about is the same thing, exactly, really, the words, refer to the same action, to, sitting, and so the fundamental thing that,

[57:25]

you know, Christianity celebrates on the Sabbath, is, to sit, that's what the word means, and we, tend to lose our connection, to the ancient, you know, origins of all of these religions, which really are in the same, very same, mahom, place, center, you know, they come from the very same root, so I always thought that Sabbath meant day of rest, but it's more day of sitting, literally, literally, literally, they just said that, because they wouldn't know if there's a parallel in Christianity, or if it's the same, no, with the word sitting, well, Sabbath, I don't remember, yeah, the word is Sunday, Sabbath, but the word Sabbath, the Sunday Sabbath, for Christianity, comes from the word Shabbat, so that's a nice way of throwing, you know, that into your, you know,

[58:27]

we just came out of this practice period, that we've been having for the last month, and every time, there's a schedule that's like this, which is very similar to Tulsara's schedule, where you, you work five days, and then you have a day of rest, you have any day with a four and a nine in it, 24th, 29th, 14th, 19th, 14th, and 9th, those days are the, alternate schedule days, or days of rest, so at Tulsara, you practice very hard, during the regular week, and then the four and nine day comes, it's called Shikunichi, four and nine, and, it is, I finally understood what the Sabbath was really like, because you sleep in, you can go to Southern, but you get up later, there's special breakfast, you have a bag lunch, the baths are open, this is at Tulsara, so you can go, like, in the regular week, you only go at bath time, there's bath time scheduled, and it's not free to just go take a bath anytime,

[59:30]

but during the day off, baths are open, so you can have three baths if you want, you can lull around, you can, you know, you wash your clothes, and you have a chat, and the day just stretches in front of you, it's like hours after hours, because the rest of the day is, you know, Han goes, the bell goes, doot, doot, doot, and you, and you get into that, and then this day opens up, and it's, it's marvelous, it's really, and then you're ready, and then you've really rested, and then you get back on to the schedule, and so that's what we had here this past month, we had zero and five days, because there were no Sundays with a zero and five, and we couldn't take a day off on Sunday, because we kept the Sunday program open, and it felt that way, you know, the day would just, it's amazing, if you really create a day for yourself like that, which the Sabbath, all the rules about Sabbath, you know, not making a fire, not doing work, it was all to help you really just cool out, and enjoy your family, and your friends, but then, I suppose,

[60:30]

you know, as that got rigidified, it became a burden, you know, you can't do this, you can't do that, but I think the origin of it was really just to help create this wonderful space, and real nurturing time, so, Thich Nhat Hanh, I'm sure you're familiar with the Vietnamese teacher, he really, really strongly recommends having a day of mindfulness that you schedule in once a week, which is just like this, it's really Sabbath, where you prepare your meals slowly, and you turn the phones off, and our lives get so, well, you all know how they get, that you feel like you can't take that day, you know, you've got too much to do, but it really, it really helps the whole rest of time, so, the idea of, you know, you don't, you can't throw out your origin of religion, it's you, you know, you think that way, certain things remind, I mean, smells, I mean,

[61:31]

it's a cultural, religious event that's just in you, so how do you, and yet, you may want, maybe it's time, in terms of, you've got a lot of space in front of you, what about deepening what you're already doing, there's nothing deeper than, preparing for ordination, and, working on the precepts, and sewing your robe, you know, settling, on that, and, and it will include, the study of, your Catholicism, and what works, and what doesn't, that'll all be in there, every stitch, you can, I like that idea, of sewing it in, those questions, and, the sewing of this, is, you know, it takes a long time, so it's, it's all part of the initiation, the initiation starts, right with, you know, cutting out your first little strip, that's it, you're already into it, so it may take months, it may take years, that's all, it's part of the ordination ceremony. I have another,

[62:36]

sort of, comment, and question, which is, what's your name? Kathleen. Kathleen. There's another issue, you mentioned, which, is essentially, lots of communities, and the children are gone, speaking with some friends, the other night, some who were, urban planners, some who were, religious, and, none of the above, about, I mean, when I'm, our nuclear family, defines community, for so many of us, now, we think otherwise, we belong to, like, Yaakva, or, like other people, or, we maybe belong to, our children, I don't know, but, few of us, have a true extended family, and, few of us, have a village, and, seems like, so many people, are seeking, community, in a way, they can't intellectually, define it, until they follow, sometimes, the best, decisions,

[63:37]

sometimes, this environment, feels, so much more, like a community, than any other, found, in, nuclear family, development, so that, I can understand, why, this direction, that's coming, from, our family, and, and, we should finish that last sentence, I don't know, hi, if you would like to talk about, yes, I had a question, I was wondering, at the start, I wasn't really clear about, when you're talking about women, and, role of women in different traditions, And I'm not really sure, because I find it very inspiring, I've been really connected more quickly to deaf and hard of hearing, which has a lot to do with race, I think, and being in a place where history is so terrible, and lots of other things.

[64:43]

Or, I really appreciate high teachings, the teachings are still being preserved and preserved. And I wasn't sure, because I find that very interesting and inspiring for my own practice, but I wasn't sure if you were saying anything about how you're making this connection. In Vajrayana Tibetan Buddhism, the feminine principle is really brought forth, and these women teachers, and Tara, and it's very much out there, part of the teaching and the practice, the identity with the deities, and so forth. I think what I was trying to bring up was, I guess the word is the dirt, or the few, there's few, it's like you can name them, whereas in the morning we chant the lineage of all the teachers, I don't know how many, 96 or whatever, we chant every morning, they're all men.

[65:45]

It's the ancestors from Shakyamuni Buddha, one of the seven Buddhas before Buddha, Shakyamuni Buddha, all the way down to Bodhidharma, and then China, and Japan, and all the way to Shunryu, Suzuki, Roshi, so it's this body of teachers who have passed the Dharma from warm hand to warm hand, to us. But it's all men. And this is, I mean I love every one of those guys, really, I mean there's all the stories about them in the teaching, it's not that, I actually think of them at times as family members, grandfathers, but there's this dearth of women, at least in Zen, there's koans with a few women teachers, some unnamed, you know, just an old woman in a tea shop, or unnamed. So even the Buddha's foster mother, Mahapajapati, who started the nuns' order in India, received permission to start the order, and was a great teacher in her right, most people don't know her name, I mean if I were to say to you how many of you know the Buddha, the person who started the nuns' order, it's just not up there.

[66:57]

So then you, and for people who feel like, well what's the problem, in Buddhism there's, you know, men and women can both be enlightened, and what's the problem, it's not sexist, or it's not, it's not out of balance, what's the problem? And also, look at these enlightened women, you know, so what's the problem? These great heroines and teachers, so they begin, they can be used in a way of, sort of gender grading, I mean in a funny way they can be used for the opposite reasons, like, well these people, these women can do it, so how about you, what's going on with, how come you're not an accomplished yogini or danada? Whereas for men, excuse me for getting into this gender thing, but I think it's appropriate, I don't think men are sort of brought to task so much, well how come you're not like Padmasambhava or, you know, Bodhidharma, it's like there's an understanding that there's a vast number of people who are

[68:00]

struggling and working with their, you know, do not have, you know, off-the-chart spiritual capacity, but it's just accepted, and those people are sponsored and encouraged and helped, whereas in Buddhist institutions, I mean you can look at Theravada countries and Tibetan, you know, not having the full ordination, and they ordinate the whole order of nuns being lost, you know, and you can't, and in Sri Lanka and places like that, you can't do that. You're always a novice, you can never get full ordination, you always wear white, you never wear the saffron robe, so all these things are institutionalized ways in which women, the cultural understanding that women have lesser capacity, which is a, in many cases, a belief that's held, then gets worked out in the institutions, but then if you say, well, this is a problem, they say, well look, you can be enlightened, what about, what's your name? You know? It's just that you're not trying hard enough or something. Do you see what I mean? So it can be used in a backward way.

[69:05]

I just not sure I necessarily agree with that, because I agree also in the Tibetan, most of the Rinpoche's are men, and there's, I know, one of the nuns who started the dictionary order here in Japan, that ordained, and she's now in Japan. So, you know, I know the whole history of it, and it's very difficult, and it's difficult for all the nuns. But I think women also have the same difficulty, I think, in practice, we all come up against our own unworthiness, especially in America, how to deal with your own unworthiness. I'm not sure it's gender-related, although it's great, the things you said about, you know, just making certain orders amongst, and, you know, sometimes amongst without any kind of separation that your mind could cling to is important, but I'm not sure that that's necessarily visual in that way. I think that, you know, the higher, the more realized women have taken down, because I know for myself, I find it really inspiring, having women who are in those positions now, more and more women are being realized or allowed to be in those positions, I think it's really important for everybody, but I also think it's kind of a cultural time now that this is coming up.

[70:21]

Wait, you know how the, oh, I was going to say what, how, what you said, Stephanie, was the good girl, bad girl thing, and there's no girls in between, and so there's the really, really good girls, and there's not the ordinary girls. Yeah, yeah, well, this thing about self-hate and low self-esteem, a feeling you don't have, it's shared by men and women, by all means, and it's a particularly, you probably know this story, I think I've mentioned it here before, but it's a Western, a very Western phenomenon, like the Dalai Lama met with these psychotherapists, and they were trying to describe to him self-hate, and it kind of was like, he did not get it, you know, and they tried all these different ways of, it was a concept that was unfamiliar, you know, so we do have this to deal with in the West, and, let's see, but I feel like,

[71:25]

I don't want to actually make a, you know, who's got it more than others, but I feel like it is a gender issue, definitely, and I feel like women, we live in an androcentric culture, which is male-dominated and male-centered, and the male is androcentric, there's parts that, in an androcentric society, male is equated with the norm, so maleness is normal, and then there's female, who are kind of looked at a little bit as on the side, and you've got to deal with them some way, and you've got to be kind of figuring out what to do about them, but maleness is normal, and so it's in that realm, it's in a male-dominated society, where you just, it's just a given, of course there's this vast, thousands and thousands of mediocre, I don't mean to say this, each person is, you know, a jewel in and of themselves, but I'm just saying, thousands of people who are rank and file, you know, rank and file comes from, the word rank and file comes from chess playing, you know, it's just the, how you,

[72:53]

there's just lots of people who are pretty much like you, and working hard, and then there's, so of course that's understood with men, and of course, I don't mean to belabor this point, but anyway, I think with women, for example, in this class I taught on women in Buddhism, some of you were in the class, we were talking about experiences in our background, and origin, religion of origin, where a woman's interest in religious practice, and, you know, really, spiritual awakening was like, there was nowhere that it was reflected, the priest, you know, this one person told a story, she loved going to mass, she loved the rosary, she loved being close to the priest, and taking communion, and afterwards the priest would shake hands as you left the church, she'd shake hands with the congregants, and she couldn't wait, because she would be closer to God, and all this, and her brothers had to be kicked out of bed in the morning to go out to mass, and they had to be yanked, so they're coming out the door, and she's ready to shake hands with the priest, and he reaches over her shoulder to shake hands with her brothers, you know, so glad that they came to church this morning, anyway, there were stories like this, and from the men who were in these church groups, this one person in particular, who during the class realized something,

[74:18]

there were no women, there were no girls in his youth group, except when they needed coffee and cookies, and it had not occurred to him, and it was so normal, it was just the way things were, it didn't even occur to him, so where, he was Methodist, so where were these other Methodist little girls who really wanted to be, so anyway, this thing of being in an androcentric society, where there's altar boys, and if it's an altar girl, it's kind of like, hmm, can she really do that? Like, right? That was some stories that came up, too, that the altar girls, when they began to do it, there was some question, just like when the women started to be used to sew at Tassajara, it's like, ooh, well, I guess it's alright, that kind of thinking, which we culturally carry, where women are not quite the norm, you know, they're, anyway. I'm involved now in a discussion, study groups on race, racism.

[75:20]

Yes, yes. But hearing you talk is hearing most of the minorities in our group talk, saying that they indeed have to be, not only is it male, it's white. Yes. That's the norm, and if you're anything but the norm, female, a person of color, it doesn't matter, you're expected to do more, you can't just be yourself, you have to be more than yourself in order to be measured as being just borderline acceptable. That can be pretty challenging, in a way. Yes, this is all food for your practice. Yes. I mean, this is why many women have come to practice. If you talk with them, it has to do with, you know, some kind of inner sense that they weren't accepted in some way, but because of just who they were, and to get to the bottom of that, you know, it's a very, in terms of spiritual crisis, it's, you know, it's a big one for people.

[76:21]

Somebody over here. Brad. Hi. One of the first things I noticed when I started coming here during the summer was that there were women walking around in robes, and I noticed right away that I had a, you know, a slight, like, kind of twitch, you know, like something else. And I think it's, I think it's great, you know, and I think that, you know, it's like, what I was thinking, the word that came to my mind, you said rank and file, what came to my mind was nuts and bolts, you know, just, you know, and I'll take your word for it, that there's, you know, not a lot of examples in the, you know, the literature, women examples of that kind of thing, just people that just show up, you know, throughout history. Certainly there have been, you know, but I think this is a really great time to be alive in that sense, that that role has been assumed, you know, and, you know, I get a perfect opportunity for practice, seeing yourself twitching, you know, seeing yourself, you know, realizing, oh, you know, I'm not as light as I look.

[77:43]

And, and God, that thing that you mentioned about race is so true, you know, you know, we think, you know, I grew up in a very progressive household, one of the jokes in my family was, oh, I went to the doctor today, oh, yeah, what did she say, you know, that kind of a thing, you know, I grew up in a very progressive household, but I still have all kinds of, you know, racist and sexist notions lurking, you know, inside of myself, you know, and I think it's very important to see that, you know, to experience it and be present with it. Because that's part of me, you know, and it's not part of me that I love, or it's not part of me that I want to encourage, you know, but it's something that I have to accept, otherwise I can't progress, you know, I can't move on. And so to see all that stuff, it's everywhere, you know, I think, you know, some of us in the West, or certainly me anyway, I, you know, often put a lot of the Eastern things on a plateau, you know, somehow, you know, but I mean, they've done as much harm to each other, you know, in the name of this and that as the West has, I would think.

[78:48]

And hasn't done them any more good, you know, there's simply, it's just the world keeps spinning around, you know, and we, you know, fortunately, we're getting a lot of, we have the opportunity to choose the good, I think, if you will, good. And I was also saying, you know, what Kathleen was talking about, that kind of tug at, I was never baptized into Christianity, but I'm a professional singer, and I've been singing in churches for years, and I grew up celebrating Christmas, and, you know, felt a little uncomfortable at Christmastime this year, just, you know, coming out here and everything, feeling, in a sense, like I was somehow betraying my past and everything. But, you know, that's, that's okay, I mean, to feel that way, it's like, that's just part of the whole thing, you know, it's like this, this loyalty thing, well, that's, you know, that's something I honor in myself also, you know, but it's like the best part of myself, you know, it's like, you know, she was saying, all this stuff, it's all related, it's, you know, we don't celebrate buying trees and buying gifts and everything, it was really, it stayed there as a miracle of love, and, you know, and that's, that's everywhere, I think, really.

[79:57]

I mean, I think, for me, then, you know, this, encouraging a spirit of ecumenism, you know, is the most important thing, and reaching beyond any kind of barriers to each other is the most important thing that we can do. Thank you. And some of these are so unexamined, you know, they're just so unexamined, and when they, if you're watching carefully enough and see it arise and can study it and drop it, you know, that's when you can drop it. So, I think when they're unconscious and unexamined is when they do the most harm.

[81:04]

Just in the tinnitus, a very small tinnitus statement, I don't know your name, but you said something about how, dealing with your group about racial minorities, that you hear how things are always on the white male perspective. I agree, it's always on the straight white male perspective. So, that's another assumed reality that isn't always true reality. But isn't it more like the wealthy white male? My ancestors are from Italy, and when I was in high school, some color guys, we used to call them color guys, but we called them black once in a while. They called themselves other names, usually. So, one color guy came up and said, are you white or black? I said, black? White or black? I said, I'm Italian, man. Skin color, what the hell are you talking about? And he pulled his friend and said, see, that's why we can never play this game.

[82:09]

They're from Europe. But, it's the rich, it's the rich, and my dad said once that the people in power don't care what, if it's the white or what you call them, as long as they have the power. In Islam they say, the whites had the blacks in cages, and a long time ago the blacks had the whites in cages. That's what Islam is. That's what Islam is. I mean, real Islam is not people like me. Real Islam is like that. But anyway. Well, all this can be plowed into your practice of life. The pain around whatever your choice, not choice, whatever your sexual orientation is, and then seeing your own acceptance of it or not, or your family. I mean, these are all things that people experience as suffering and pain and brings people to practice.

[83:12]

So, settling with that, settling with who you are, and living thoroughly, and not harming others, and all those, what brings people to practice are just these things, exactly. This kind of suffering. It's very deep, and very private in some ways. Yes? Could you define androcentric? Androcentric. Andro is male, and centric is centered, so it's male-centered. And in Buddhist studies, Buddhism is not misogynist, which is, misogynist is hating women. It's not misogynist, but it's not androgynous, meaning a perfect balance. It's androcentric. It has a male dominant side, as does our culture, and as does scholarship, you know, like Buddhist scholarship.

[84:25]

Because it's androcentric, what was chosen to save, you know, what teachers got written down and saved and passed on. So if you have androcentric people choosing that, then you already have kind of an imbalance. And then you have scholars who, androcentric scholars who then choose what they want to even translate, you know, and what's worthy and what isn't. And then an androcentric civilization which also sees it. Anyway, so you've got about four layers of androcentrism to kind of get at what's there. But once you bring that to mind, you know, I find it useful, you know, useful to bear it in mind. There was one Hebrew prophet, I had to ask some rabbis, and some didn't know.

[85:27]

Many more than one. Well, one rabbi told me there was actually one that was accepted a little bit before Jesus, and they said she was a Micah prophet, I don't know her name. Rebecca? Deborah. Deborah. That's what rabbis told me. But at least there was one. But then again, God includes men and women, right? I mean, he's not just male. You mean she's not just more male? God's everything, right? God's not a man. But when you want to pull yourself up from your own bootstraps, you have to have an image. So if you want to meditate on some idealized form, it's okay. But for me, if you think of God as a woman or a man, I would say... Give us a hand over here, yes? Yes. I'm studying cultural sociology, and I was surprised to see that the definition of male and female cultures was not so much from the androcentric, androgynous point of view,

[86:35]

but from the values that they share. The United States and Japan, who are among the most male cultures in the world, share pretty much the same values, which are success, heroism, achievement, winning. While the female cultures value more nurturing, caring, taking care of. And the Scandinavian cultures are more feminine than the male cultures such as the United States and Japan. And as we know, many of the Latin countries that most people in the United States regard as being very macho, very often are not. Very often, as a culture, they are more feminine. So I think that very often when we talk...

[87:36]

Because I have heard these discussions about feminism, starting from my mother-in-law, you know, very often. And I think that there is a confusion in what you say, you know, androgynous or androcentric, and the basic values that they have of the culture. I don't know. And it's so interesting. You know, it really gets into... I don't know if you want to do... I'll just finish my thought, which is that the generalization, you know, there's various schools of feminism, you know, there's the post-constructionists, who...

[88:38]

Anyway, who basically... These qualities, nurturing and all these things are based on biological, you know, mothering, feeding, da-da-da. But there's some sense that those are not... There are men who are also nurturing and caring and da-da-da. These are not... But they don't belong to women, these particular... But there's these qualities. And is there anything, I mean, this is what they get into, is there even anything you can say that's, you know, that's a woman's way or man's way? And they really go way into there's nothing you can say, you know, besides this particular person or this particular... You can't say... Now, there's the other side of that, of course, argues the other way, but this is a big debate going on in kind of feminist studies right now, actually.

[89:45]

And the one where you can't say anything is in terms of Buddhist... I don't know if I can put this together, but anyway... It's likened to... Kind of the emptiness of inherent nature. Emptiness being the lack of inherent nature of self, and so that it's ungraspable. You can't pin it down in that way. So, anyway, what you say is interesting about these different cultures and all. Maybe we can, you know, more steady... So, we're having lunch a little bit early today because of the ceremony, and also there's fewer people, so I think we can actually see people. So, I don't know if you noticed, but they rang the bell a little bit early, so... Okay, thank you very much.

[90:40]

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