The anja, I ask the anja every day, what shall I talk about? And you know I do that. And so far he hasn't given me anything to talk about, so I've been wandering about aimlessly, sasheen. But today, he said, you should talk about the 63rd koan, the Blue Cliff Records. Well, the anja has some privileges, so I looked it up, and darn it, it was the koan about nansen killing the cat, which I don't particularly want to talk about. But I will, because it's too... Where is that anja? Because it's too easy. I think it's too easy to misunderstand and it's maybe private. Better a story, a poem you deal with individually. But actually, the question has come up.

[01:32]

in several people. Docents, because I think because of talking about the nuclear accident in Harrisburg. So maybe I should talk about Some people say Nansen Nanchuan didn't really kill the cat. He, of course, wouldn't have killed the cat. That he just said he would. I don't think so. I think he probably killed the cat. If it were me, I'm kind of a chicken, you know?

[02:38]

figure some way out. Dogen said, he would have asked, he would have said, if anyone can speak, I will kill the cat. If anyone can't speak, I will kill the cat. And then it's easier to get out of, because then you can take killing more figuratively. And Dogen said, probably If he had been there, probably none sent. Let's see, I think Dogen says, if I had been there, I would have just said, well, no one could answer and put the cat down. But I think it's not the killing of the cat that bothers us, it's the killing of the cat for a reason that bothers us. Any of you who've ever had a hamburger, I shouldn't complain about killing a cat. If you do, you're not being realistic. It's an interesting difference in a monastery in Japan

[04:04]

The monks regularly kill cats. Not because it's part of training from nonsense. It's some kind of fraternity initiation, you know, like swallowing goldfish. Goldfish. But the People of Japan are quite superstitious about cats, and don't like cats too much. And also... And they have some... One of the interesting things that... The way you're supposed to kill a cat in Japan, you have to, is you put it in a paper bag, and you take it to some place that one of the children takes it out, And then you throw it in the bag against a wall or something, and then get in your bicycle and ride quickly in the direction away from your house, so the spirit of the cat can't follow you. Of course, it ends up with rather maimed cats who don't die.

[05:30]

Anyway, there's some feeling that the Buddhists taught Japanese people not to kill, so all of these extra cats they would give to the Buddhists to deal with. So people abandoned cats quite regularly in in monasteries. And so the monks have to do something. There are so many cats. I've abandoned a few cats at Saitoke-ji myself. And the monks then drown them usually. Because every temple has so many cats, you know. Many temples have so many cats. And then we have Philip's wonderful poem about Gary's cat. And sometimes, if you do rescue cats, and we rescued them regularly at our house, then they're stolen for toys, to make fur toys. And we lost two cats that way. We're pretty sure Sally was little, but she was told by her friends that probably these two cats we had just disappeared. And she was told by her

[07:02]

friends that we'd brought up from kittens were told by her friends that they'd probably been taken to make toys. So I rescued lots of cats, often in the rainy season, several times in the rainy season. I found them, strangely, in the gutters You know, in Japan, there's these gutters everywhere. They're kind of hard to infect. The house Philip used to live in, in Japan, first, Winther, was his name's house? The first night we were in Japan, Gary said, we're going to Winther's house. So we did, and Sally was, I don't know, four or so when we first got there. So we knew nothing about these gutters that were everywhere. So we took a taxi over to where Philip wasn't in Japan yet, to Winter's house. And I was walking along holding Sally's hand, and we turned into the doorway, and Sally disappeared. Philip knows the gutter right there. And Sally was way down there in the hole.

[08:30]

Because you just turn in the doorway, you'd think you could walk in the doorway beside your child, but it was dark, you know, nighttime. And she disappeared in this hole, you know? Had to drag her back out of it. I learned to be more alert in Japan than here. Anyway, it rains considerably in Japan, and there's streets. It really rains in Japan. I can remember under the Charmant, which is a coffee shop in Japan, used to be called something less charming than that. I can't remember the first name, but underneath it there was this parking lot, and I remember seeing a manhole cover suddenly fly up into the air and hit the ceiling, way up into the air, that they had in the basement, because the water just suddenly flooded the whole basement of the Charmant coffee shop parking lot. And a big cinder block wall, just after Sally walked by it going to school, completely collapsed onto the sidewalk where she'd been, because the rain had undermined it. And the rain runs, a really bad typhoon, it runs, ignores the gutters and flows everywhere. Anywhere there's these gutters to take off the rain all the time. And for some reason I kept finding cats in them,

[09:56]

but underneath these cement things where cars can drive across the gutter or you can walk in or something to a house. Very difficult to get the cats out from underneath in the rain. And also at that time we were at the edge of town. Now it's the middle of Kyoto where that house that was Gary's and then ours used to be. Now, two rooms of it are at Green Gulch. But I get so frustrated with so many cats that I didn't feel it was right to have other people killing them and I couldn't abandon them. Someone told me the kindest way to kill them was with car exhaust. This is one of the few times I've ever killed anything. So I tried with the car exhaust. It was horrible. I got the engine running and I put the bag over the car exhaust. And every now and then I look in these poor kitties. Anyway. That was the last time I tried killing

[11:26]

But after a while, the last year, I just left them be abandoned because Nakamura Sensei didn't like cats in the house and we already had at least two. And sometimes small ones. We were trying to figure out what to do with them. So although the monks may kill cats, drowning them in pond of the monastery, because what do you do with several new cats a day? Still, if during lecture, a public lecture, a Mumon Roshi takes one of these kittens and cuts it in half in front of the group. It's a rather different experience for everybody. And I think we don't like the reason or some justification for doing it, but I think it's

[13:00]

I think to understand this story, you have to see. It's very consequential to kill something, but you also have to see it's inconsequential whether he killed the cat or not. I think you can assume he felt he might be saving 10,000 cats or killing. But the point is not to find some explanation, you know. Such a story as this killing the cat should be part of Zen Buddhism. Such a story should be part of this teaching. Can you justify killing a cat? If you look to

[14:01]

as I think, as the commentary says. If you look to emotions or reasons for it, you will end up criticizing. You will end up turning on nonsense, nonchalant. And the other part of this story is, you know, what is a teacher? How do you trust a teacher? How are you going to trust someone? It does not mean your teacher is always right or doesn't make mistakes but you learn from your teacher's mistakes and you have to assume your teacher learns from making mistakes. So to find out just what some person does and to accept that person good, bad or indifferent is the point of a teacher. In Zen, you know, maybe in some other teaching, teacher is supposed to be perfect or something. But in Zen, teacher is only supposed to be someone who always teaches. So Nansen is a teacher. It's not important whether he was right or wrong.

[15:32]

But how do you learn from someone? There should be someone you trust. If you're going to wait till you can trust the perfect person, good luck. It may be pretty difficult for you to find someone. And trust is more important than perfection. So you must, I think, if you're going to find out about human life, it's very important to trust someone or accept someone, good, bad or indifferent. So first of all, we just work with this story. Trusting Nansen, not criticizing Nansen or saying he shouldn't or something like that. What the commentary says, he didn't know the place in front of a donkey and behind a horse.

[16:57]

Where is in front of a donkey and behind a horse? It also says, he neither is on his way home or at the shop. He neither got to the shop nor got home. So as you know, probably, Joshu, Zhaozhou was away from the monastery at the time and returned that evening and he probably was the closest disciple. It reminds me of… Kapil Roshi told a story about a teacher at the funeral of his closest disciple, weeping openly. And a young monk said, I thought you'd be beyond weeping. And Roshi said,

[18:30]

If I don't weep at the funeral of my closest disciple, when will I weep? Anyway, when Zhaozhou came back to the monastery that evening, Nanchuan told him what happened, and Zhaozhou immediately put his sandal, as you know, on top of his head and went out. And some people say Zhao Zhou's action was to say something like, killing the cat is your business, I'm doing my business, and he left. That's, you know, the kind of answer I gave when

[19:34]

Yamada Roshi brought up this koan to us in the San Francisco Sashin, maybe, I don't know when, 1962 or so. 1961 or 2 or 3, I don't remember. I told you about it before, right? Yes, I did, but not everybody. So they asked me together. Yamada Roshi didn't know English so well, or virtually, not at all. So when you went to Doksan, there was Yamada Roshi facing you, who was quite a tough guy, quite a firm person. When I was at Deheji, he'd become quite old.

[20:44]

He gave me my first name, technically, I think actually Tsukuyoshi did, but I received my lay ordination from, which was really priest ordination too, from Yamada Roshi, after I'd been practicing exactly one year. He made a rule. that you could only, at that day, have it after one year. So they did the ceremony. Exactly one year, so I could be included, because I was the newest one in the group to be ordained. Twelve of us were ordained. Now, Graham Petsche, and myself, and Philip Wilson, and Betty Warren, and Della Gertz. I don't know who else. Paul Alexander, I think. Anyway, at the rate I'm going, this will be a serial, several days, of spin sashimi. Anyway, so I went in to

[22:18]

see them. And they asked, I can't remember now. I think he may have presented the koan to the entire Sashi. And then when I went to Doksan, I answered immediately, And Sukhirshi had to translate. Sukhirshi was sitting here and Nirmala... Yamada Roshi here. Yamada Reran Roshi. And I said something like, I would just... You're killing it for... If I'm there, you're killing it for me. And I would just go away and leave you be. So anyway, they both became quite angry with me. How do you think you can escape from the situation? Here's Tsukiyoshi, in his mild way, but more in Yamadurashi, more. You have to stay in the situation, they said.

[23:48]

But probably, that koan probably kept me at zen center. Working with that koan for many years, to stay in the situation, which probably kept me, one of the things at least that kept me at zen center. Then up, back upstairs, the doksan room was downstairs, back upstairs, the zendo, he asked again, and I believe Kuang sensei was there, and I believe he was one of the twelve people that lay ordained at the same time. And he said, later. Oh, they also told me not to answer so fast. I came in and answered immediately and they said, no, you should not be so hasty. So at the end of the session, Imara Raira Roshi asked again everybody,

[25:06]

And some people at that point volunteered answers. And I remember Kwong Sensei volunteered one when he was sitting way in the back in the middle. And he said, maybe way in the back is maybe 20 students or so. And he said, or 15, he said, I would just say, please don't kill the cat. And that's a pretty good answer. You could also just reach out and take the cat. It's a sweet victory. Anyway, the first half of this koan is you. What would you do? Forget about the monks. What would you do? How would you save the cat? What is saving the cat? what do we do about Harrisburg? I remember Suzuki Yoshiki, during a lecture, someone said something, I've told you this before too, about the Vietnam War, we should not be doing the Vietnam War, or something. Suzuki Yoshiki

[26:47]

stepped down from where he was on the platform about this big used to stand on and literally knocked this person right out of his chair and said something like, if you are going to say something you should be prepared to do it, not just take some position. With some people it requires such dramatic putting them on the spot. And it may require something like that, to act with, as the commentary says, no self immediately. And that no self immediately is not some bravado or confidence that you act just immediately with.

[27:51]

but it means to act in complete accord with. Immediately, in this sense, you can translate as in complete accord with. Not to go to dead words, but to the living word. Living word means the circumstances, the situation, actual situation. And so many of us only learn through our ears, you know, of verbal things. And then you stick to the way you've been told, even though it's done differently in front of you all the time. Then there becomes some righteousness in your behavior, some sense some people are right and some people are wrong. And you only know things by conceptualizing them. There's a phrase, body of reality, body of reality. You sense someone. Someone is in the room with you, sitting. Without naming them or thinking about them, you sense them. What are the senses that you use? Can you trust those or act with that feeling more than some

[29:20]

naming or conceptual understanding. since I'm telling stories, I'll tell you. When they tried to draft me, I decided not to be drafted, mainly because I didn't want to serve in an army with army, which particularly had nuclear weapons. So I walked some 30 or 60 miles, I can't remember, mostly walked and hitchhiked and so forth, to where the draft board was, and got to myself in a frame of mind, and they said, after seeing

[30:52]

They're not sure they wanted me in the army. And they said, this man said to me, are you sure you're, maybe you shouldn't serve. Maybe you should wait for a year and come back and see what kind of shape you're in. And I, Now I don't know what I would do. I don't know. Maybe I'd go in. It might be interesting to work from within. But I really fully attempted to fill out the forms so that I would sabotage any attempt of the government to ever want me to do anything. peacefully or militarily. Probably, I could never hold a job for the government now. So I'm stuck in Zen Center. So I don't want to kill anything, but I think you might have to kill a cat.

[32:17]

And we're always in some way killing something, and you should know that. These monks, you know, the Western Hall and Eastern Hall, I don't think anyone knows exactly how that was all worked out, but I believe one hall is for... It's something we'll probably have to do at Green Gulch, which is that when a monastery, as it was in Nansen's time, big center of the culture. Many people come to it all the time. And, you know, and maybe at some stage that's, maybe it's true. Buddhism is most vitally part of a culture, that would be true, or maybe when it's just starting it would be true. But anyway, hundreds of monks came to a study with Nanchuan all the time. And so he probably didn't know most of it. And he found, anyway, the two halls are, I believe they rotated back and forth. But one hall would be concerned primarily with the administration and maintenance of the place, taking care of the many people who would

[33:55]

and maintaining and farming and so forth. And the other hall concentrated on meditation. In a way, maybe Green Gulch is the northern hall, Pasahara's southern hall. But in the monastery of his time, they were combined and called, usually, western and eastern halls. But I think at Green Gulch, we'll have to do something like that. Eventually, we'll have one group who takes care of public and farming and maintenance and another group that concentrates on meditation for six months or a year and then switch. Anyway, these monks weren't dealing with, in some way, with the pettiness or consequences of their pettiness, consequences of their actions. And Nansen obviously simply wanted to put it to them. And he decided, in his own way, free way, to use this kitten, to hold it up. And if he got through to them, I can't say it was all right or not all right.

[35:26]

in two pieces. How about, Dogen says, cutting into one piece? So this immediacy is to be in accord with. I think Castaneda's phrase, stopping the world, is quite good because it means it's very much like two trains moving at same speed, is that you, you know, maybe first stage of mindfulness is you're mindful, but world still gets ahead of you or behind you. At some point, you find yourself not pressured by situation. The situation is not behind you or ahead of you. So that acting immediately is not just to do something, but you do it maybe at the same way as the situation or at the same way as your teacher or your friend. So it doesn't matter what you do, you know. The point is not the meaning. You could say that Joshu, Jaujo putting a sandal on his head means to teach

[36:57]

which is, teaches, don't kill. To teach by killing is to turn things upside down. You could make some intellectual explanation, and maybe intuitively he was saying something about upside down. But that kind of explanation is irrelevant. What counts is not some meaning you can ascribe to it, but did he do it at the same way? In other not immediately following, but simultaneous. This is also to act on your own, in your own way, to find out by yourself, like I was talking yesterday, own being, two separate own beings. In this way we can act in accord with others. things move at a common pace, or you move at the pace of the world. So you haven't just removed distractions, but you've entered the pace of things. So you can participate with events as if they're stopped, like two trains jumping

[38:25]

It's the best way I can describe it. So it doesn't matter what Joshu did, just he responded, and the point of the story is he responded with Nanchuan, with Nansen, at the same time, at the same way, simultaneous, not immediately following, not confidence, not some confidence you're confident no matter what. No, you may be quite unconfident, but you act without hesitation. You act without hesitation, not because of the confidence you can jump from one train to the next, like a movie stuntman, but they're moving at exactly the same speed, so you can quite leisurely step across. And so this story is about how you trust someone. Can you trust someone? And can you act in accord with them? And it's dramatically put to you by seemingly opposite to kill something, which seems to not act in accord. But the point is to get across to you consequences of not acting in accord with things.

[40:24]

to not understand the consequences of your actions, you'll kill 10,000 cats at some point, you know, you have to either get to home or get to the store not be waiting, dawdling, waiting for something you've saved up. Again, just here, imageless here. Living Word of the Sutras is before you all the time. Don't get involved in right and wrong. Find out how to live in accord with people. This is point of Zen teaching.

[42:27]

And don't confuse yourself by saying, well, you can't go in accord with Hitler, or corrupt government, or Nixon. This is not the point. dharmas are called deep. Deep, not three dimensional, but deep. So in accord with deep, not deep, If someone robs you with a gun, you may give him some money, but because he asks, not because he has a gun on him. You may also, because he has a gun on him. But feeling is very different if you're responding to the person.

[44:16]

how to do that, you know, in that kind of situation with a gun on you, to be calm in that way. That's why Zen teachers often create some challenging situation. You know, if someone grabs you, some big person grabs you, or embarrasses you, you little pipsqueak, you know, most of us will feel, you know, shucks. Whatever can be done to embarrass you, you stupid idiot. Or to shout and start hitting. So Zen teachers, that's the situation most of us dread the most, where we would most lose our composure. So it's used.

[45:26]

So under any circumstance, you find your compulsion. Before your teacher hits you, you know, oh, now he's going to hit me. OK. You are quite ready for it. Tsukiyoshi says, sit at the crossroads of time and space. The commentary on this koan says, when you know the imperative, the ten directions disappear. When you know the imperative, the ten directions disappear. Sit at crossroads of time and space. It means no time, no sense of time or space. Then you are center of world. Everything is center. Everything is center. Bodhimandala, everything is center. This is own being to

[46:47]

this is anyway basic description of compassion this kind of explanation and story put in rather contradictory terms so you can realize wide consequences of your actions and take responsibility exactly for what you say and do.

[47:37]

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