April 18th, 2004, Serial No. 01045

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let me know if there's anything behind me again
on my name is coco in oman
the monk who lives in this valley
and
i wanted to home
talk about come one the little golden nuggets that's buried in our particular tradition
and the
particularly with the japanese so
school
which on whose lineage of time and and the most of us are acquainted with and the founder of that school in japan was i'm the guy called a he named after his monastery dogan his own because real name was so toga
a console dog and keygen or something like that on and about but one of the things that he said really ah couple of years ago really struck me as bizarre
well actually most of the things he says strike me as bizarre but this one in particular
some of you have heard me talk about this before but the the expression used was the more abundant the clay the bigger the buddha
and
when you think about it the more abundant the clay the bigger the buddha clay isn't something that you really
if you're going to make something lasting or important usually don't use clay even if you fire it it breaks easily come so what struck me was a clays kind of inferior when you're thinking of making buddhas and
and
and what's the background of his saying that
that i forgot
the background of that is the done in the first school the well not the first school but the the school that was sanctioned by the government in india the terrified in school
if you asked if you asked one of them one of the monks what they wanted to be when they grow up they would say i want to be in our heart i want to get rid of all my afflictions
ah
and later on answer
during that time and beyond the there was there's another there's another school forming and growing to my of which were a part of the larger vehicle we call ourselves the larger vehicle which we call them the smaller and and happened
and ah
if you asked and and the mahayana school really flourished in the first century of this era and you asked one of those monks what they want to be when they grow up they say i want to be a buddha
you wouldn't hear that
before for century too much even nobody could be a buddha accept the buddha and it takes a bullet to become a buddha you know aeons apparently
so obviously something something happened and
so when the when buddhism entered china like it does with any culture it became an affected by that culture the culture of china and china at the time was apparently please anything
i say
know that done this is only my understanding it to truth or falsehood has nothing to do with any of it
but from much i'm from what i understand the primary
religious culture of china the time was taoism and and in terms of fun society polity confucianism and when when
when buddhism came from india into china it became sam
because of the influence of dollars and primarily
so and things like things that came to us from taoism our love of nature and appreciation of nature the balancing of opposites
yin and yang that's sort of thing
and than the notion of something called buddha to buddha tar which we translate as buddha nature
that tom not only are we called to deal with our afflictions but where are we also have the chance to realize our own buddha nature that we are buddha
you'll hear that a lot from us that time that you are buddha
so and i wonder if poor what would it would have thought of that well there's no way of knowing his them so
so that one would want to become a bodhisattva which means an awakened being and went to awakens being they live for the benefit of others not in a martyr sense at all
they're not they have
bodyshop as out western particularly there's no sense of martyrdom attached to it to to to living for others and serving others it's serving others just because that's what we do
another quality of put a nature is this compassionate it is compassion it's kind that is generous and that has its own wisdom
and of course it hasn't sung wisdom because wisdom only comes from the inside it doesn't come from the outside like we know that right
and and and wisdom comes from dealing with one's own affliction
not by blaming others for it but by actually
feeling what we're feeling and i actually facing our own suffering
ah
so
could i remember it so when duncan says the more abundant the clay the bigger the buddha what he's talking about as the more suffering you have the big of the buddha are going to be or the bigger the booty you are
if you develop a certain point of view towards it
so we have an expression that we use
it in practice periods we'd most of our meals and the zendo it's very formal
takes a long time for just what we actually eat for about seven minutes or something
but the whole ceremony takes about forty minutes or so for lucky
it didn't happen in a lot of the time is chanting certain things and the thing we chant at the end come as trying to remember it down is it abiding in this ephemeral world like a lotus and muddy water the mind is pure and goes beyond thus we to buddha
so that expression
like a lotus and muddy water
but you'd think there was some sort of design flaw
in in lotuses and that they would have to that they flourish in muddy water but they flourish in the muck and the mud
and i mean other things grow in
earth grass trees
but mad at any rate mud
so it's not an accident that a lotus grows in mud it's not like it could grow better if it were on a hillside know of plenty of plenty of sun and and not been that not possibility of being drowned by water in fact lotuses don't grow
the on the in meadows and hillsides they only grow in swamps in meyer and much snack cool
and so do we so do we
and lest you misunderstand me it's not like we have to go out looking for suffering
i
we have plenty
ha
and a lotus as you know is the symbol for an enlightenment for for our highest on her highest aspiration as human beings are buddha nature and so
when he says that the more abundant the clay the bigger the buddha what he's saying is that suffering itself is where awakening happens
awakening doesn't happen when things are fine or when you're peaceful or when you're happy and when everything's going my way
it only happens in the midst of suffering and nowhere else so
when i when i read this i was really shocked come i didn't think we're supposed to be this way that that didn't sound like a flaw of some kind
why must suffering
why must i am awakening only come from suffering
well i don't know but it does

or so suffering one one of the one of the translations for suffering is from duka duka is that is the sanskrit word and it means a feeling a disease being ill at ease unsatisfied that something's wrong it can be very subtle like
that you know what i mean that kind of the worst farmers suddenly sort of that low level anxiety and you don't even know what it is like back the definition for anxiety is you don't know what causes
so it goes very subtle suffering to two major suffering and the buddha listed many getting what we don't want losing what we do want a death birth
old age
although some of us carry it well
ha on the old age sickness and death together make an unhappy bunch
well what else do that
grief
not get the words but you can see what so not only is it is it mental anguish but it's also physical things that happen in the event that causes affliction suffering and we'd rather be somewhere else and any of those some
the things in fact one of the what a good done a good diagnosis for suffering as get me outta here you ever have those moments get me out of here
so and can
we have we have our own ways of dealing with suffering
and since they since none of them work i think that's why a lot of as gravitate to a place like this to find a way that actually does help
try things we tried to i do our
either
blaming is a good one that doesn't work but if you can if i'm feeling really bad and i can see that your fault
that makes me somehow feel better slightly now but it doesn't last too long because i still feel that way no matter how it no matter how much i blame i still feel rotten or we can develop a story about are suffering and to explain it to rationalize it you know i'm like this because of this
and that story become so hardened that it job and so it can sort of legendary our own our own myth and it solves nothing it just becomes a big heavy weight
or we can try to avoid any occasion of suffering now to aversion to run away from it
to try to to try to not be there when it happens
that doesn't work either
because it done as you know from living together as just a short while the community it finds you
he knows your name it can smell it coming
or we can or we can attack it and tried to kill it try to get rid of it to crush it to going to dominate it
which only course fuels it it loves it loves the power of the fighting against it gives it
so
and especially as of thing i wanted to say about that time in our culture is very puritanical i'm i'm from maine the northeast and i didn't realize that i was a puritan till i got to california
and him and started listening to people how they they they kind of like soft and new these are the ones that i manage and liked their soft and open and forgiving caring and all just a nice and least the people who i and around with an east coast where weren't like that at all
old kind of hard and and cold and sharp i remember going back staying i was out here for several years and then went back and spend some time in a christian monastery in upstate new york come and we had a an influx of guests from
from new york city and i was observed sort of we took care of them and i was watching them for oh my god what happened to these people are they all like that
on because they were very on know the way i was
oh so on puritanical so
puritanism gets it some a lot of it so understanding from from way back in from from greek philosophy where there was a duality of body and mind body and spirit so that it goes so that from a certain point of view
a spirit was good the high the highest the ideal and body was the thing that corrupted the spirit so the body was really bad and nasty an awful
and and the body was usually the com
the cause of a lot of passion passion and passion was to be avoided because passions bad because if done it means to excitement and loss of control and if you know any need be familiar with that
welcome
so ah
so so the puritanical approach was to to stop it at every at every point to fight it
most effectively was burning it out of people and then setting fire to them
it's in the church to church had that during a certain period and so
obviously that didn't really work and it was very temporary
effective fix
so i was delighted to to find from from our tradition that there are other ways to deal with the passions come the the afflictions
and
oh so see such suzuki roshi who is the it's are compassionate founder who founded zen center wrote a book that probably most you've seen send mind beginner's mind
most which i find very difficult but that is one place he talks about control number that where he talks about i'm not sure i remember it on but i talks about how to how to how to train animals have for how to control animals and you do that by giving in the big field
you know common sense and say well you put them in a box right then you have control over them but the trouble is that always bags for backfires and they get very unhappy die
like us just like us if we try to do that to ourselves so if you give them if you give something that's uncontrollable just because it's alive i don't like anything that is alive is uncontrollable violence
then you give it a big field then you have some control over it some extent i understand children are like this sort of to
you have tried dealing with him
well in
the buddha wanted to find out
what the hell's going on
he had a happy life apparently a palace life come or all of his needs were were looked after
life of abundance and privilege and he wondered why he was i'm still slightly unhappy and then he went outside the palace as you know and saw old age sickness and death
which weren't supposed to happen there wasn't supposed to be that way that those things would happen to even him but when you find out found out that they actually were going to then he decided to get to the root of it and how to be free how to be free of affliction com or its effects i was with me
and so what he found where the the that what he called the four noble truths and just just briefly
the first one is that guess what there is suffering it's real you can't hide from it you can't painted a different color so that it doesn't so that's not the same you can't pretend it's not there but it actually is a human of
vent
and why
doesn't really matter so much like why do you die well because you live so it's not really
it's not really something wrong has happened it's just that these things happen so how does one manage the uncontrollable the unpleasant with grace
with grace and so
when he noticed was you noticed affliction and then he noticed that something immediately comes with it
and that is some dire he call it someone dire the first one took on the second novel truth is on the daya which is like well what i think of as
amoeba why everybody know what members are movements one celled
i'm very tiny tiny a microscope they're very big though and when you look at them in a microscope you can see how they how they work and apparently they don't have much of a brain
hardly any cerebral cortex bars i could see
so so they they're very natural the way they way they act if they
if they come up to something that is some
a harmful there they think very intricately designed they can tell if something's harmful just by coming near it then if it's harmful or nasty dangerous than they immediately automatically without any thought apparently although i couldn't swear that they withdraw they
withdrawn from it
if it's something they come up against that some tasty or beneficial or food then fell and gulf it and the food will become them they'll they'll just it
if it's some if it's something that is neither of those they'll just sort of move on around it
now where exactly the same
if we don't interfere too much when i'm actually whether we interfere in law doesn't make any difference but some die of the second novel truth is what happens automatically and asked if something is painful or looks like it might be we will
we'll have a response to an automatic and out of our control
think of it you know i know hot stove you don't have to think about removing your finger it's automatic
yeah
and we because we have higher realms to have fun of intellect and then things get complicated
so
so that that immediate response is what we call feeling some diane no vagina it said it's automatic it's automatic so and there's nothing we can do about it and since there's nothing we can do about it and it's worthy of respect and that's why it's called noble just like duca there's nothing we can do about it these things happen
and since it's not in control than we'd better be respectful of it and so it's called noble
right so there's that immediate response and then there's something that then the third noble truth is what we can do it with it but we can do about suffering and that is called
neruda
and neruda is variously translated the the the usual one is there's an end of suffering and i never found that helpful
and
when i was much more interested in is how
well what do you do and so it's a translated in
there are different translations of that word neruda and and see this isn't there is a modern it's the don't actually these were all alive one are some people in in england the braziers who are therapists and also buddhist clergy husband and wife
who translated as
as
containment that's what i said yes happening thanks
containment there's a there's a
a contemporary japanese master whose name is mrs the russian who is also the translator of the show begins on the four volumes which i find it possible rumor sell because it was aside for a dance but dumb as as a teacher and lecturer who is really quite fascinating because he uses a lot he finds western psychology very fascinating and helpful
and
and so he translated as am
self regulation or self restriction
and yeah and that's the same thing as suzuki roshi is giving it room
in other words and and i know and when expression we use around here is i'm not leaking not leaking
an example of leaking would be
something a person has has i'm just dont either in their behavior or or a word or even a look on the face and it causes something inside of me to to react
to leak would be to try to make them stop it noting or are to blame them or to to somehow make it their problem if if only they would stop i would be much happier person
and that's really that seems to me common sense but in terms of reality it's it's a it's full of beans
so so not leaking or containing the affliction
ah or self restricting the affliction is to keep it and to not make it and to actually study it if you can stand it
i remember so many years here with i'm kind one of the practice leaders and i'd come in to see them they'd be having a fit
and should just say can can you stand what you're feeling can you just stand to feel what you're feeling and my response for quite a long long time was no course i can't know it's painful or makes me anxious or makes me mad
of course anger usually comes from hurt and was a secondary emotion so can you stand can you stand your own hurting and usually not don't think usually not
will usually try many things to get out of it one in one is the story business i talked about before
another is to
ah so my mind keeps going blank
i think it has something to do with the young
what's that thing called me are using today this that gum that screw gun
impact driver of that having that much power so
there was so great
yeah feeling what you're feeling and it incidentally i'm for those who are interested in these things there are only two things that are unconditioned
only two things everything else is conditioned the first one is face
empty space the other thing is neruda
the when we decide not to leak when we decided not to to release our discomfort or our affliction outside ourselves it's not interesting that's not conditioned that's a that's an actual buddha choice it's the buddha in us action
so for
i wanted to give one example by fun
ah of this kind of thing
i was away for three months the last three months and com part of that was was at a conference
and the other part was doing a long ceremony but one of those significant things that happened was i discovered the internet
i've never i've never seen it before it sounds amazing isn't it and if you want to know is right there well for most people i had have i had help but one of the things i wanted to find out about more was some of the personality disorders so that i can understand most of my
friends here
that
one of the
sounds cause one of the unsettling things was that i found i could relate to them to well
i could see myself in a lot of these symptoms which was which was actually very helpful
horribly humbling in fact i read them one of them a try to read it on the on the plan on a plane a five hour plane trip and i found it almost impossible to read it was so painful
such is our
such is the nature of our conditioning and by that i mean
condition is kind of a light whirring sound so sound so tame doesn't it
a conditioning like air conditioning sound so easy and fluffy but am i think in terms of ego of of the self that reconstruct this is who i am and that's who i'm not this is me and that isn't or and you aren't that kind of from from solid
separateness that gives such a sense of security safety unless rattled
it's not only just conditioning it's our behavior becomes habitual a habit for example there's a there's a disorder which is kind of and misnomer for all these things because they're not really disorder they're very ordered and very structured and very dependable and predictable one of them
is social anxiety disorder come which i'm which they said the people who are have investigated this thoroughly apparently said that has not talked about much and they suspect that a third of the population suffers from it and what it is is coming into a room of a
lot of people like this or worse a room of strangers or meeting one stranger or worse one or more strangers and how it can see how it done manifests is in increase in heart the heart you know panic and anxiety and
depending on how
a strong it is the symptoms get stronger and fact they may even become even more physical and become sick
and so and i was so delighted to see this because good god it's so it's so nice having what you suffer from have a name
otherwise you think it's some you material instead of just some conditioning
and so it does it describe some things so so so when you come into a room of strangers for example may get all scared and you're the only one and you know they're all looking at you
your you think that because can't look at them because you know they're looking at you
and not only that but they're judging you to see how to see what kind of person you are how you how you act if you say the right thing or if your stupid when you say the wrong thing
and of course the anxiety and just goes through the ceiling so ah so what done so some of the ways of
so if that happens once it's guarantee there's going to happen again and when you're in the situation again and you react the same way cutting the conditioning a stronger it's reinforced so then it becomes a habit so that when you come when i would walk into a room like this ah ah
i would it would automatically would be there are we i wouldn't have to think that everybody was looking at me and eight mean judge a man or liking me monogamy like kind of stuff so that if it and every time they would happen if get stronger and stronger
ah
ah
yes and so they are there things you can do about that obviously one is true i'm actually try to watch what's happening what's actually happening and to think that them not only you feel this way but probably everybody in the room does like a cocktail party what could be worse or com or having to drink in order to go to occur
cocktail party
doesn't anybody do that
so
so not only do things become habit in terms of behavior but they become addictive and one of the biggest addiction is ego self will do anything to preserve it will do anything to defend it and no matter what usually know and that's it that's a
now we'll go anywhere do anything to on preserve us at that sense of self and doesn't matter what whether it whether it's an inflated sense of self or inflated sense of self about the same
right so and one of the things i think you could say about the buddha was that he was trying to show us just how hard it is just how hard it is to awaken to reality because with all the addictive behavior habitual behavior which is so difficult ah it's really hard to know
what's actually happening zomig sense
lucky if you have social anxiety disorder you walk into a room you can't tell what's happening what's really happening it's even hard to talk to people because you've got all that you've got this whole bunch of stuff which we think as me in between us and what's going on come
so as far as i can tell buddhism isn't quite so much about religion or philosophy i think it's more about dealing with reality discovering reality
when she wouldn't think would be that hard because what else is there
but so difficult to see
one more example a friend of mine at city center said tommy should and shouldn't you know i have a problem
with crowds
and she sat down i'm going to or ah to a meeting in a week of 'em it's a it's a it's a meeting of a group of san francisco's
the biggest philanthropists
and they they may think there's still about twenty of them and they made done to discuss spiritual issues
and they're having the special guy was a jesuit
and from my background when you hear jesuits like went for your life
i was i was a psychologist what is even scarier
and you want to come i said sure
i think because i know what the problem was i knew that my suffering was a legitimate in a false sense known own faults kind of way
so plus a lot of things have been happening to i a during this on free week ceremony i was doing it the city council so i went and and i could feel you know when the elevator came up like feel happening starting to get tight and i'm trying to pull in the defenses the gather the troops sir
well the wagons
because me but i also found that time something else stronger inside of me said this isn't necessary this really isn't necessary and so took a deep breath and went into the room and there were people there sure enough
but i could see them as really nice people and wealthy people but nice people
cool on were kind and and then the the jesuit came
sunshine and and we introduced ourselves which wasn't as bad as you might think and we have something called check-in most of our meetings to which most people would rather be absent i think it's impression i get and it's where you say little something by yourself in front of all these people
really so that's what we did and that was okay felt a game then he started talking and i noticed how complicated
some of the theories he was running out where the know the usual typical psychological theories but human behavior and i was thinking how she got she could just come be with us for a week or so he can see how much simpler things item that and so at the end
one of the things in in my book of rules is never speak to strangers
ah
and even with that i went up to him at the end and said that
well i don't put on i was and what i did known said boy know we've been studying them and psychological stuff announced surface for a while and above above a and we got along just right it was just wonderful and in fact i invited him to come visit city centre which he did weapon which i called up to seventy five mm
he came and then he'll then
and he came and we had some tea and taught for two and a half hours
i don't even know such as passage of time and then at the end he said you'll have to come over at to a jesuit community for support and i thought
hey i said that ah yeah like that
it and i did i did like it
so
neruda so giving giving me anxiety and giving the suffering some room and not just just doing the the automatic response than that the automatic leaking
and that seems to work for any passion
so it's not easy
that's allowed to say
we have fifteen minutes
i'd like to hear your views
am
ah
tucked up relocate to a twenty three
and did you hear of the twenty commandments
and i didn't see that monty python moses came down with twenty commandments
comedian hundred
mel brooks no grocery fifteen
interested in canada
i dropped it ten
the area that the fourth commandment the fourth novel truth is the eightfold path which in one way of looking at it is what develops when you practice neruda you can't help it but damn walk the way of buddha walks or acts the web would acts
plus they can also be used to encourage neruda
narada is on a containment and not leaking not leaking not leaking the reaction from the suffering
not making it worse right
it's like like a passion arises you wanna go do something about it but you don't wait we study it and see what what what actually happened was like falling in love
if any of you have any experience with that
it's not very trustworthy you noticed ah
exactly
fall in love
in terms of how you view the other person
you get this you get this picture of the other person and they're wonderful gosh fact you see them as even more than a buddha
and and gives me and logic jumps into syrup passion have you ever noticed that
we can rationalize through flawless ridiculous logic anything anything can be rationalized so so so passion is is our life in as part of life being alive room that's a trustworthy if we
if we just react to it
not possible
magic movements
oh yeah that's a that's an affliction
now put us at the a joy to enjoy can be an efficient
because you want to keep it you want to keep it in fact you'll do anything keep it a try to recreate it over and over again and says it's never the same so that so that actually the attempt to recreate it becomes an addiction
which leads to it burning out and then demand more of the technique
from germany
pretty out at how on one arm passion and health practices by definition that's why i have the elephant maybe you can use once when does work and passion you something that that represents it's not a benefit it's the core arises over laughing
notice the corner of our practice i think as my opinion is the corner of our practice so well because it's always there and you can't get away from it and it's the only thing that body mind comes from awakening
make sense
really what's to awake from
awakening to only comes from affliction passion passion is kind of an old fashioned word for affliction
sovereign
atlanta gives
on the friends called the a passion is called the passion jesus' passion to immigration visa
ah well that that that was a rather painful passion that some of them are very pleasant
yeah
tank time as a good up the new york new york times who had a good article on why mel gibson had such a good time with that passion
can tell a difference between as afflictions of passion and afflictions the one he spoke to be either been arrested after the type of book
that we as people tend to or at least up you can go down as bad person you started let's get started
a to have to untangle the devil
yeah me but well maybe doesn't have the cerebral cortex and better that the the that gets deluded into thinking for whom that that's something that's actually destructive is pleasant
i'm familiar with that myself
yeah i get to my pile is presenting what i'm sorry we're moving when an addiction you can usually get addicted to something that changed our moods
joy changes are moved you know that it's a nice mood changed we try to try to keep it substance abuse same thing it has such promise such promise it was so cool
exciting the first time but moon
at my follow-up was i understand the logic in pursuing of course that would have free from suffering but i don't understand the logic of course free from pleasure
oh
i wouldn't say that i would say passion and was a affliction
for you from a flick from our reaction to affliction and as gets very complicated and messy
but needn't i think
for example gosh
this is the creek
snow
pleasant has when
from a certain point you had a friend from new york city come and stay here state in one of the stone rooms and you said the next morning it was like trying to sleep with them continually flushing toilets
but now we have sent so we have sense pleasures now we have senses that's the way we connect with
our environment inside and outside not that there is such a distinction but intentionally there is ah yes mean sites are pleasant pleasing or or are unpleasing or we don't notice
so i think this is freedom from suffering in terms of
let's see
i guess the only way to say it is to say something that will cheer uchiyama rocio he said
which was
he asked his teacher kudos a roshi yeah what what he was supposed to get from in which was really the wrong thing to ask color
oh so like hiroshi because photos like she said nothing nothing you get nothing from zaza now it is it's not it's not an object to be used for your pleasure or for your
better sense of self
your character doesn't it will go away or worked one thousand does is it actually opens the field around it so that it opens the field around it
so that
there is more to you than this particular thing that you can gives you that make sense
not in a way as an end of suffering
it's not like old age goes away but my attitude towards a can change and not added to changing i am challenged
so thousand is the practice of opening up i think giving space giving space with that practicing and unconditioned neruda that's what we go to africa letting go which i find a very difficult term

is there that passes through mine or hats
david davis's that's
remain
get some the opportunity to extend and come up over and over and over where bench brains
looking about them
for you
promote personal come now
no
no
if you if you practice zazen there will be a part of you that knows this
no to do it enough
it takes a long time
long time actually doing it if you do it manama how magic takes what may they have a saying that long as i'm going to ticket to get nowhere to take to get out
it takes a long time so
so actually is what i experiences that the are you will stop will come up but it just doesn't but it's so small
if it's eminently it's try it's very convincing and tries to convince for it just doesn't have the weight it did because it's not so big now this is more space grounded
little town can tell her that move up and dish in nature of murder because it stays on
oh how would you

you know that's a hard question
i was thinking about that tonight actually how am i how would i say this mean how can i can i
because it's because doesn't is developing a habit know
developing a wholesome habit
i don't i don't i don't think i can
i don't think it matters because it doesn't really matter
well ultimately like would this affect the soup automatically
haha
what
augmentin nothing will be thing matter
but eventually
okay okay to take this
by condition nature forms ourself myself
my small self
my ego who i think i am who i think i should be whom i want to be
and whenever i act outside of that and is not in that conditioning
it's part of my unconditioned nature which is a the buddha nature
so so would you say that everything right
i mean from a conventional point of view everything's a mess
but from the on condition point of view
everything is absolutely perfect
i'm fitting it's like it's like come
it's like the the sense stupid thing of buddhism to me seems to be about exploring reality
like what else is there can i mean that source of so clear to me what else could there be but then when you think about it lots lots of stuff like i could think you're thinking such and such and such and such you know how can i can be pretty sure that
totally fabricated so so that are fabrications and her delusion they do kind of exist in a nasty sort of way
in reality but they're not reality the reality is much bigger right you are not if it actually as you
facing a jewel mirror form an image
what
the all each other you are not did it actually issue so we actually are reality
a reality is us we are not reality
see think it's no subtle
but also smartphone app
women's rights
and i think you do that by spreading the delusion out so you see less and less of what actually is happening
and in an employment
don't write your options are open does well yes and i know you haven't been that is a clearer chance to make an appropriate response
it's an accord like gala was talking about the other night that's an accord with what's happening but don't get confused in an absolute sense nothing is happening ever do you think we continue we contain what
do you think that we actually do this forever he said that village
gleaned from i do
hmm
set a trick question
you doing is something we do that's like zazen now certainly not
it's like it's like saying okay now i'm going to be real
have resorted point of view it's a meaningless meaningless statement but from a conventional point of view i don't do it has gone
oh so we little like game was talking about again she a time paradox we live in both in both worlds the conventional the absolute and the thing to do is to practice with that using zazen as the primary tool
ha to live in them both of grace
cause it was true to some point of view
this time
haven't we talk about it later
thank you thank you very much