This podcast is offered by the San Francisco Zen Center on the web at www.sfzc.org. Our public programs are made possible by donations from people like you. Good morning. So this morning, I wanted to... reflect with you on the part of right speech, which is abandoning false speech. As we talked about in the last class, the definition of right speech or upright and complete speech is these four abandonings, abandoning false speech, divisive speech, abusive or harsh speech, and frivolous talk and idle chatter. And if we start off with abandoning false speech, almost immediately in studying this, I see how the other abandons.

[01:05]

Sometimes false speech is harsh speech. Telling a falsehood or a lie is divisive or idle chatter. So all four of those things to abandon is for right speech, reflect and interpenetrate one another. So we can pull out not lying or abandoning false speech, and the other ones come up with it. In fact, I would say lying, in terms of the precepts, almost all the precepts you can see there might be lying. I mean, there's the very specific, a disciple of the Buddha does not lie, but also taking what is not given, how did that happen? Maybe there was some lying in there, or misusing sexuality.

[02:07]

Was there deception or killing? So lying is, it says in, when we chant Dogen's, commentaries when we do the full moon ceremony it says after that one a disciple or I vow not to lie the Dharma wheel has all inclusively turned there is no excess there is no deficiency one complete moistening of sweet dew bears fruit as actuality and truth this all inclusively turned for me kind of resonates with how not speaking the truth is an all-inclusive point to be looking at. So speaking the truth, abandoning false speech, I wanted to, you know, as soon as you bring it up, there's telling lies, telling falsehoods to others, also to ourselves.

[03:16]

both consciously and unconsciously. So there's the inner dialogue, the outer dialogue, and then there's, I wanted to look at what are the purposes? Why would someone tell a lie? What's it about? So we can look at that. You know, the word Dharma itself is synonymous with truth, you know? So, Buddha Dharma is, you could say, awakened truth, you know, the truth of our life. And this particular practice of letting go of false speech is so core to our Buddhist practice and our Bodhisattva way. In fact, being honest with ourselves and others is maybe the hallmark of what it is to be a person of the way. So... And the Buddha's first teaching was about the four noble truths.

[04:21]

So right from the start, right from the get-go, we're looking at the truth of the reality of our life. And those four noble truths, they're not like beliefs that we're supposed to believe. To be a Buddhist, you have to believe in them like a creed or something. The four noble truths come out of our study of our life. our direct experience of what is affliction, what does bring suffering, and when suffering is abandoned, what is freedom and calm and peace. So it's not like you have to believe in this in an abstract way. It's we discover for ourselves by practicing how those truths operate in our life. And part of discovering that is being truthful with ourself and others. and our life, and those very afflictions, you know. Someone asked me, when we chant the Khan Ramon, we say, you know, the eight difficult situations, I think.

[05:30]

They asked me, what are the eight difficult situations? So I looked up in the list of lists, under the eights, and there was... They didn't call them the difficult situations, but they called them the eight sufferings. I thought maybe it's this. And what they are is birth, sickness, old age, death, being forced to be with those you don't love, being separated from those you do love, not getting what you want, and the five grasping skandhas, you know, the upadana skandhas, the five aggregates. self-clinging. So those are the eight difficult situations. And how we practice within the eight difficult situations, which are not something we can escape from, directly looks at, directly resonates with speaking the truth, abandoning false speech, not lying,

[06:41]

So in one of the handouts I gave you, so I want to look first at what the Buddha says about speaking the truth. Yes, Beata? The eight? Yes, the eight. Birth, sickness, old age, and death, or birth, old age, sickness, and death, those. And then there's the ones about our relationships, being forced to be with those we don't love. being separated from those we do love, that's six, and then not getting, just plain old not getting what we want, you know, just, which happens all the time, daily. And then the last is the five upadhanaskanas, the five grasping aggregates, and those are form, perception, you know, like we chant in the Heart Sutra, form, feeling, perception, impulses, consciousness. those are our psychophysical, full-functioning essence or nature.

[07:51]

But when there's grasping after self and there's self-clinging, self-concern, selfishness, those become sufferings and afflictions and difficult. Seeing form, visible, is just full-functioning, but... Grasping after it is when the suffering arises. So I wanted to start with some of the things that Buddha said in the Pali Canon and some other things, then look at about lying and some other teachers, and then look at what might be the reasons we do lie. And I... I asked you in the work meeting to think of some situation that you personally know where either you lied about something and what the results were of that, or someone lied to you, and maybe there's many of those, but I thought near the end we would break into dyads and listen to one another about these often extremely painful situations.

[09:06]

around lying and truth-telling. So I don't think you have to tell the most painful one, but to hear one another and how we've worked with those and the effect that lying has had in our lives. So the handout, you don't have to look at it, I don't know if you've read these things or not, but The one I wanted to start with was a kind of classic one, which is Chunda the silversmith. The sutta is the Kamaraputta sutta, and it's to Chunda the silversmith. Chunda, as you might remember in the Parinirvana of the Buddha, Chunda was a lay follower of the Buddha and gave the Buddha his last meal. Do you remember that? And it happened to have been... either food spoiled or some kind of food poisoning, and the Buddha was violently ill after this meal, told Chunda to bury the other portions of it, don't serve it to anybody else, and that meal was his last.

[10:22]

And on his deathbed, the Buddha, this detail of the Buddha's parinirvana, I find very moving. He specifically said to everybody who was around him, do not blame Chunda. You can imagine people saying, you killed the Buddha, how could you do that? And poor Chunda, you know, how he would have felt after offering the Buddha a meal to have him become violent and die. But the Buddha specifically spoke about Chunda, do not chastise Chunda to feed... To offer the Buddha's last meal is a great blessing, just like the first meal he took before his enlightenment. So this is Chunda in an earlier story, and he asks the Buddha about practices that he's seen of Hindu practitioners, Brahmans, who do various things to purify themselves.

[11:25]

And... as a religious practice. And so he says to the Buddha that he's noticed that these Brahmins have disciples and they do various practices like getting up at a certain time, touching the earth at a certain time, touching wet cow dung, touching green grass, worshiping fire, paying homage to the sun with clasped hands. So Chinda says to the Buddha, what does Buddhism do to purify the body, you know, purify the self? And the Buddha says, yes, Chinda, we too have practices to purify ourselves. We also do. There are three ways in which one is made pure by bodily actions, four ways in which one is made pure by verbal actions,

[12:26]

In three ways, one is made pure by mental actions. So the three kinds of karma, body, speech, and mind, the Buddhist says, yes, we purify ourselves through these karmic actions. And then he brings them up. And I think, I can't remember if by Xerox, all of them, the bodily and mind, I think I might have, but the verbal... How to purify yourself through verbal actions is what I want to bring up because it specifically brings up not telling falsehoods. So how is one made, first he starts with how are you made impure by verbal action? There is a case where a certain personage engages in false speech and then he describes what happens. He's called to a town meeting. or another kind of meeting or gathering of his relatives, his guild, or the royalty.

[13:30]

And if he's asked as a witness, come and tell us what you know. And if he says, and this is very specific, as the sutras often are, if he doesn't know, this is impure verbal action, if he doesn't know, he says, I know. If he does know, he says, I don't know. If he hasn't seen, he says, I have seen. If he has seen, he says, I haven't seen. Thus, he consciously tells lies for his own sake, for the sake of another, or for the sake of a certain reward. So that's the one about lying, and it goes also then next into divisive speech, harsh speech. He takes each one of the... hearts of right speech and says how one becomes impure with verbal actions. So it's very clear, you know, it's like telling, it's, what is the Ten Commandments?

[14:37]

Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor. Someone says, did you see this happen? You say, no, I didn't say anything. How was it that you came to say that? And he says, for the sake of yourself, for the sake of another, or for reward or some kind of gain would be motivations for that. So then, after he goes through, and you can read the other, we'll go through these when we talk about abusive speech and divisive speech. And they're quite simple, you know, kindergarten kind of, you know. Skillful verbal action. And how is one made pure in four ways by verbal action? And then there's a lot of repetition, you know, the sutras, Pali, because they were all chanted. They were all orally passed down. So the repetitions, you know, a certain formula is like a mnemonic. It helps to remember what comes next.

[15:39]

So there's a lot of repetition. How is one made pure in four ways by verbal action? There is a case where a certain person abandoning false speech, abstains from false speech. When he has been called to a town meeting, a group meeting, a gathering of the Sangha, home of his relatives or her relatives, etc., they say, come, good woman, tell us what you know. If she doesn't know, she says, I don't know. If she does know, she says, I know. If she hasn't seen, she says, I haven't seen. And if she has seen, she says, I have seen. Pretty simple, right? And then... Thus, she doesn't consciously tell a lie for her own sake, for the sake of another, or for the sake of any reward.

[16:42]

abandoning false speech. She abstains from false speech. She speaks the truth, holds to the truth, is firm, reliable, no deceiver of the world. This is one of the, what comes along with speaking truth and abandoning false speech is that you are seen by friends and family, Dharma brothers and sisters, by the world as reliable, as reliable, trustworthy, worthy of trust. And the karma of not speaking the truth is that no one will trust you. No one will confide in you eventually, you know, that you will not be seen in the world as someone worthy of trust. So, and that has, you know... probably uncalculable repercussions, really, in terms of our life and our relations.

[17:48]

So this is the most kind of simple explication, I think, of not telling falsehoods or abandoning falsehoods. It's staying upright with the reality of what actually happened. Now, it gets... Tricky, you might say, because we're very complicated beings. And, you know, what do they say about witness, eyewitness accounts? You know, they're not really, and we use them, but they, you know, they can't necessarily be fully 100% trusted. So that's one thing we have to, so it's to the best of our knowledge, you know, as best as we can remember our As far as our eye of practice can see, we didn't see that. But there's also at play our own psychology, our own wants and wishes, which will color what we actually see, our own projections.

[18:59]

So we look at something and we see sometimes what we hope to see, that we can color an action. because it's conditioned by our own state of mind, our own desires. I know that I remember seeing something that I remember saying to myself, that can't be so, I can't be seeing that, because this person is basically, I thought, an enlightened person, and that couldn't be happening. So I must be... What did I say to myself? I must be totally deluded. Yeah. Because how could that be? It was very plain. It was unhidden. It was right before me. But because I had strong ideas and clinging to certain ideas, I couldn't let that in, that reality or truth of what I saw.

[20:00]

And so I turned it to, well, I must be just ridiculous, you know. not just confused, you know, which, you know, also brings up finding one's voice, you know, fully acknowledging our truth, being willing to stand in our Dharma position, and even if it goes against, you know, old ideas. So that was a big lesson to me. I wanted to say a little bit more about purification. You know, we say, may we exist abiding in this ephemeral world, like a lotus in muddy water. The mind is pure and goes beyond. Thus we bow to Buddha. So this purity, I understand if purity is not kind of, you know, I'm pure and not...

[21:06]

and you guys over there are impure, but the purity of the truth, the full fullness, lotus and muddy water, the images, as you might know, the lotus can only grow in the mud with the roots down in the mud. It doesn't grow in clear water. It doesn't thrive. And our Bodhisattva practice is to be completely with others in the mud of greed, hate, delusion, and difficulty with following precepts, and we admit it, you know, that we're right there in the mud. That, to me, is purity, rather than I'm separated from all you folks who are, you know, challenged by these things. So this, how do we purify ourselves with verbal actions? To me, it's not separating from other people. It's being able to fully be with other people in calm and peace, because when we're not practicing in that way, we become very confused and unsettled.

[22:15]

In yoga class with Patricia Sullivan this summer, she brought up... chanting, which we do in that particular yoga class, as a purification practice. And there's the heart, excuse me, the throat chakra and purifying the voice through our chanting practice. So it's our chanting, singing, also sounding is a way of opening up this area here. Some people often feel like they're they have a lump in their throat, you know, or a closed throat, or what do we say, the word stuck in my throat? You know, we have a lot of images for this closing of this area here and not being able to fully express or sound.

[23:21]

So this open communication and free-flowing Our chanting practice can work with that, actually. The color of that chakra is lapis lazuli. So opening that area there aligns us with our desire to communicate fully and to express ourselves fully. and in truth, upright and in truth. So, there's a sutra called the Sutra of Ones. It's probably, you know, these lists are, as I said, easy for us to remember the teachings when we have...

[24:27]

ways that make it helpful. Lists are good. There is mnemonics, you know, repetition. There's a sutra called, it's in a group of sutras called the group of ones. And this sutra is called the itivuttaka, the group of ones. And it's a sutra where it says if you just take up one practice, this will have a very strong consequence in your life, in the sutra of ones. So what the Buddha says is for the person who who transgresses in one thing, I tell you, there is no evil or unwholesome deed that is not to be done. Which one thing? This, telling a deliberate lie. So this is seen as this kind of all-inclusiveness. If you just take up one thing, this will have enormous consequence to not... Tell a deliberate lie.

[25:28]

There's a story in the Jewish tradition, the Hasidic stories of a rabbi who had a congregant, a woman who was a member of the temple, who was kind of a rapscallion. She would take things and she would gossip. She would tell lies all the time and steal and all sorts of stuff. And the rabbi spoke with her and he said, I just want to ask you to do one thing. Would you be willing? Ah, sure, Rabbi, I'll do one thing. Okay, don't tell a lie. Don't tell lies. Fine, sure, that'll be easy. I can do all the rest of my stuff that I usually do. And it's not going to stop me. So she set off on her day, and she was going to steal something. And it entailed, you know... a deliberate lie that she had already paid for it or whatever. Anyway, whatever she tried, she saw that she couldn't do it.

[26:30]

She couldn't do her regular unwholesome practices because there was a lie involved, and she had promised to not lie. So this reminded me of this Sutra of Wands. You just take up one practice that has this big consequence, not telling a lie. so I wanted to I think I sent this to you too this this is a little commentary by Keltzang Gyatso where he talks about lying and And he says there are many objects of lying, but most are included within eight. What is seen, what is heard, what is experienced, and what is known.

[27:36]

And what is not seen, what is not heard, not experienced, not known. These are the things that we lie about. Most things come under these eight. And the other thing about... Often lie is verbal, is verbal action, verbal. But there's many other ways to lie. One is by silence, by a lie of omniscient, by not speaking up when something happens, by neither saying I saw or I didn't see, but refraining totally from getting involved. So just silence. There's also lying by gesture. You know, we've got a lot of, you know, body gestures, you know. Who knows? You know, we can just shrug or kind of do a head motion, like take a look over there.

[28:38]

You know, there's lots of things, gestures that can indicate, can show lies, you know. Also, Kelsang Gyatso talks about the action of lying in order to be complete. It has to have a fullness, a circle. You correctly identify what you're lying about. And he had this, if you say something like, his example is, my bowls are gold, but you actually meant they were brass. and you just got confused there and made a mistake, that's not really a lie. The thing about lying is intentionally telling an untruth. And the definition I wanted to read to you, what a lie is...

[29:41]

false statement or piece of information deliberately presented as true. So this deliberate lie that it wasn't just you made a mistake, oh, gold, brass, oh, it was deliberate. Anything meant to deceive or give a wrong impression, to present false information with the intention of deceiving, to misrepresent or hide some aspect of the whole truth. So you only do part, like a partial thing, but it misrepresents. You kind of said part of it, but... And this lying of omission, I think we can broaden what I just said to... speaking falsely, but also standing by in silence when somebody else is speaking falsely or telling a lie or telling a partial truth.

[30:50]

If we know the fullness and allow that to happen. Now, this is a good time to include when we do lie. When is it okay to lie? And out of compassion, there are times when we do tell a falsehood, and it's totally appropriate, and it's, I would say, in line with right speech. And I would think some of those things are to protect another person from harm, like the classic example is during World War II, hiding someone who's going to be carted away to a concentration camp, You lie completely. No, haven't seen them. Nobody's in my attic. That is out of compassion. It's not to gain reward for yourself, or it is deliberately misrepresenting something or trying to, but it's in order to save a life.

[31:57]

So that's part of right speech. Other reasons might be, and you could probably come up with your own, when the time and place isn't right, which is part of these five keys to right speech, when it would be the person is too weak or in pain or something that it's not the right time really to say maybe the whole thing that you know about what happened. I think there's I read about a situation with a car accident where, what was it, the mother survived, but all the children, and she was in critical condition, and they didn't tell her then who had died in the car crash because to protect her more harm would be done. So those kinds of things, and I'm sure you could come up with many other examples, is out of compassion.

[33:01]

deliberately misrepresent or don't say. I said a couple more things and then I'd like to open it up for your thoughts and questions. The ways that we lie and the reasons we lie or can't bring ourselves to speaking the truth. And I think, and you can come up with more things, one is self-promotion, very close to praising self at the expense of others, you know, maybe so we don't own up to something completely or we lie about something maybe on our resume. or something, to be able to promote ourselves, to protect ourselves.

[34:06]

And it may be called for, if you're really in harm's way, a situation where someone is violent, or that might be a way that lying would not be... going against the precepts or right speech. But there's other kinds of self-protection where the consequences of your action, you're trying to skirt, you know, or kind of scoot away and not there's something that needs to be owned up to and you avoid by telling a lie so that to protect yourself from the truth and consequences of the situation. Self-concern, you know, just... and also fear, a real fear that the relationship may break apart if you tell the truth, that you'll lose something.

[35:11]

And often later on when it becomes known that you did lie, you lose it anyway. So it often doesn't really work or doesn't accomplish that, but there might be fear. There also might be hate, greed, hate, and delusion. The three poisons would be some of the conditions for why someone would deliberately tell a lie. The fact of lying, or when we lie, there's an anxiety that's created because we're not in alignment with the way things are. with what we know to be true, and this is a bodily, psychophysical event for us. Unless, and I don't really want to get into pathological lying, which is a whole other realm, I think, you know, where you can't tell a lie from not a lie almost, you know, it's that deep.

[36:16]

But when we lie, There's the anxiety that will be found out, and we become confused. What did I say or what didn't I say? It's hard to keep it straight. So our calm, our peace is destroyed, really, by lying. We might get the thing we wanted, like get the job, but what if they found out I didn't graduate with a degree from such and such, you know? So we build for ourselves a... environment, inner and outer of stress, anxiety, and fear, really. There's also deceiving ourselves, which is another realm that I want to touch on, which is where we don't even realize that we're lying. And I think... people who are caught in addictive life, addicted to substances of all kinds.

[37:28]

The hallmark of being addicted is that you have to lie about it. Someone spoke with me in Doksan about, as they were telling me that they weren't an alcoholic and that they were staying at a relative's house and that the person had wine, in the icebox, and they were pouring themselves a glass and then pouring water into the wine bottle to make it get up to the right level. But they... It was complete self-deception, you know, that this was a problem, you know, that they were acting, you know, deceptively, lying about it, taking all sorts of things, taking what is not given, but they didn't have a problem, you know. They were just... So... That ability to be in denial, to deceive ourselves is extremely deep, to fool ourselves and to tell lies almost unconsciously, although maybe someplace we know, but maybe not.

[38:35]

And I wanted to tell a story, some of you know this story, about me, which had to do with a deep lying experience that I would... I was totally unconscious, very close to, but such a deep ability to fool myself. So I just wanted to offer that story because I'm still turning in, and some of you know the story. So this was at Green Gulch, and I think I was... It's either the abbess already or the tanto, but taking a teaching position. People at Green Gulch have permission, those who have families and children or don't live in spaces, domiciles that have kitchens, are permitted to go to the walk-in and take food, milk or eggs or fruit that's on the

[39:44]

particular places in the walk-in leftovers. And certain shelves are not, probably in our walk-in here too, they're called the red line shelves. There's a strip of red tape along the shelf, which indicates do not take food from this shelf. It's going to be used for the next meal. So that's not available. But the other food is available. So I was in the walk-in getting a few things and... I saw on the red line shelf a red pepper, beautiful red pepper, big red pepper, just sitting by itself on the red shelf. And I thought, oh, this red pepper is just on this red shelf all by itself. It must have rolled down from another shelf. And I'll just take that and put that into my bag and, you know, got the eggs and very happily went. I think I'll, I'll, grilled that, you know, got roasted, that'll be good, that red pepper.

[40:45]

Got back up to the house, and not too long after that, the Tenzo called on the phone and said, did you take that red pepper? And for an instant, I thought, what red, what's she talking about? What red pepper? And then it, I took that red pepper. I, I, I was like, I can't tell you what that was like. It was, how could I? Not only was it sitting there on the red line shelf as plain as day, not like half offering, but I made up a story to justify a number of things. Taking what is not given, taking sangha, you know, taking from the sangha is... high up in terms of the Vinaya, it's like one of the, I think, grounds for expulsion, actually, stealing, and especially something that's been given to the song.

[41:51]

So taking what it's not given, lying to myself, completely fooling myself, and making this story up. Anyway, I was flabbergasted. That's too light a word. I was deeply ashamed of... And even today, I'm feeling the kind of... It was worthy of, you know, I went to Doksan about this. I apologize, I brought the pepper back. I hadn't cooked it. And that pepper meant that, you know, it doesn't matter if you're the abbess or the tanto, I can't remember which I was, one has to practice thoroughly to the last breath, you know, because the ability to fool ourselves is so deep and wide, you know, and, you know, it wasn't about anything, didn't have huge consequences for the Sangha or, but that same state of mind, that same mind that made that story and took that is the mind that can do everything

[43:07]

Lots of things that would be much more harmful. It's a very similar mind that tells the story, makes an excuse. I can do this. So that's my red pepper story. And I told this when I was in Jalapa, Mexico. I did a session there talking about Rice Beach. I told this story, translated. What is red pepper in Spanish? It's... Anyway, after the seshin, this person in the sangha who's an artist had made for me a clay pepper, had sculpted this pepper and painted it bright red and gave it to me, you know, in the lecture. And it's sitting on an altar in my house. So that's the ability to fool ourselves with and deceive ourselves. And also there's other kinds of deception and lies, I would call them, that we say to ourselves things like, I'm the worst person in the world.

[44:16]

Everybody hates me. I hate everybody. I'm so stupid. I'm horrible. I'm, you know, not worth anything. These, you know, this is what I was saying about the speech. kind of melting into one another. This is harsh and abusive speech. But it's also lies, you know? Or, I'm not afraid. Or, what else? I don't care. This kind of inner speech, if we tune into it, and if someone were to say to you, is that true? Everybody hates you? Well, you know. So when we speak that way interiorly, This is... How can we turn that? We can ask ourselves, is that true? How might I frame that? But this is a kind of unconscious pattern that we might have, which is verbal action that is not in alignment, actually.

[45:30]

And it doesn't help, and it harms, I think... And it's habitual. So this self-deception, you know, the power of standing in our dominant position and honestly saying the truth, it's unassailable, really, to stand and sit there. I think the power of admitting who we are, acknowledging, brings... mindfully brings ourselves into alignment. And what we can be saying is, this is who I am. And I think in recovery work, you know, to actually admit completely who we are, the power in that and the power to turn our lives around, you know, flows from real honesty and real honesty with others.

[46:32]

So the last thing I wanted to say, and then we can kind of open it up. Actually, there's three more things, sorry. One is from Vinaya. I mentioned stealing as one of the four major actions that would call for expulsion from the Sangha. There's a fourth, I think it's misusing sexuality, stealing, can't remember the third, but the fourth is really important in terms of lying. I want to find a note on it, which is lying and misrepresenting ourselves about our spiritual attainments.

[47:43]

This is a huge, I mean, there's only four, you know, that cause expulsion from the sangha or disrobing, you know, from the sangha. And the fourth is misrepresenting our attainments. And the sub-story of this is from the Pali canon. There was a time right before the rainy season where... There had been a drought and not that much food. The fields were withered, and the monks who go for alms rounds, there was a group of monks who said, this is going to be pretty hard gathering food for alms rounds during this time. Let's go to this layperson's house, and maybe we can work for them, maybe in their garden or helping around the house, to receive alms food. during the rainy season, because it will be hard to receive food.

[48:46]

And they talked about that, and another monk said in this group, how about what if we say we'll bring messages for them or do kind of little tasks like that? And another one said, how about this? Why don't we tell these laypeople, I'll tell them that this person has attained the first jhana, and you tell them that you attained the second, and you're a stream enter, and you're a never returner, and you've let go of all, you know, hindrances, and we'll tell the lay people that, and then they'll feed us and take care of us during the rainy season. They said, yeah, that's really a good idea. Let's do that. So they went to this lay house, and they told on each other, they spoke about their Dharma brother. This Dharma brother has these attainments and has become a stream enter, and This one is the fourth jhana, and this one is no more hindrances, and it's an arhat. And the lay people were very honored to have them in their midst and invited them to stay during the rainy season in their home and fed them well.

[49:53]

So after the rainy season, they went to Vesali, where the Buddha had passed the rainy season, and many other monks there. And all the monks were very gaunt. and thin and kind of scrawny and had sores and they weren't doing that well. It had been a really hard rainy season. And this group of monks came and they were rosy and plump and kind of their skin, it says this, their skin was shining and they bowed to the Buddha and walked around and sat at one side and the Buddha asked, and how was your rainy season? It was very fine. We stayed with these lay people. And the Buddha questioned further about how it was that they stayed with these lay people, and the monks admitted that they had said, we told them that they didn't misrepresent themselves to the Buddha, but they said, we told them these things and they took care of us. And the Buddha, I didn't Xerox what he said, but he was...

[51:01]

I've never heard the Buddha talk this way. I mean, he said, that food that you took in was theft. You stole from alms from the whole country. And better you should have, I mean, really, this is what he said, better you should have cut your stomach open and eaten an iron ball, you know, than have done that. And I think it, from my understanding, is... This misrepresenting themselves, taking food which wasn't meant for them, which is taken by lying, the consequences of that for them was worse than if they had, you know, hurt themselves or something. It was like really strong reaction. And they were expelled from the community. And then the Buddha made a... You know, another rule, the vinya, was, as you know, created by things, the monks and nuns doing various things, and the Buddha saying, that is not beneficial.

[52:11]

Let's make that part of the shingi. You know, let's say, avoid this and don't do that. So that was added. Then there was a sub-addition to that, which is a monk said and believed that he had... you know, attain various things and become a stream mentor. But then later he realized that it was, and the word is used, overestimation. He had misunderstood what had happened or what the state was that he was in and was sorry about it and said, so the Buddha amended that vinyasa rule that if someone says that, believing it, but then later realizes that it was an overestimation, it was a mistake, that is okay. You won't be expelled. So there's, you know. But the first reason that the monks did this was to gain something, right?

[53:18]

To get a cushy rainy season situation. So they claimed these spiritual levels that were beyond them. And then also the Buddha said this will cause the lay people to not trust the Sangha anymore. Because to say that you have these attainments, but then to have actions that are not in alignment with, you know, doing things that are unbeneficial. I mean, it says the Buddha, the bridge to unbeneficial action has been destroyed, that the Buddha doesn't It doesn't arise to do anything unbeneficial as an arhat or fully enlightened one. So you can see how the effect would be on the sangha, on the laity, and for someone to claim that but then act in a way. And I think this has happened in current times. the understanding of someone being a fully realized person and then doing harmful actions has been, you know, it rocks the sangha, too, and causes mistrust and all sorts of things.

[54:38]

And I think this is not only in the Buddhist world, I think in standards for professional... life's social workers and therapists and so forth to misrepresent yourself by saying, if you come to me, I will be able to cure all your ills and you'll be free from your addictions. And to make these claims is actually counter to ethical standards for different professions. And sometimes you read these advertisements for doing workshops. What's going to happen if you do this? And it's... You know, so to carefully represent the facts truthfully about what it is we offer here, you know, and if there's a misunderstanding or misrepresentation to correct that, you know, sometimes people come, we all may have come thinking, everybody at Tassar is enlightened. And, you know, to not let that stand is part of living upright and honestly.

[55:46]

I remember somebody at Green Mulch was very kind of upset about a description of Green Mulch that was going on the web. You know, it said something like, nestled in a grove of redwood trees. The Wheelwright Center is a... And they thought, it's not nestled in a grove of redwood trees. You know, they thought it was like, like Diego was saying about advertising, you know, where you... You know, you say these words that kind of call up what people desire, but is it true? You know, is it misrepresented? And also about our own, what we're able to offer, you know, in terms of guidance as a practice leader or what our practice periods are, what they really offer, rather than overselling, misrepresenting. So that's another... and in the Vinaya, it's super, super duper strong.

[56:50]

The last thing I wanted to bring up, and then I will open it up, is these instances where it looks like the Buddha is lying in the Lotus Sutra, which, you know, 2000, not 2000, but almost 2000 years later, and it's still being talked about, did the Buddha lie? or not in the Lotus Sutra. I think a lot of you know the stories. One is the burning house. Does anyone not know the story of the burning house? So just briefly, there was a house, big old house, many, many, many rooms, owned by a lord, a gentleman who had many, many children, and they were all throughout the house playing with their toys and really absorbed in their spirits toys and games, and the house caught on fire. And it was kind of a dilapidated house with only one door to get out. And this person was horrified that the children would be able to get out. He tried to drag them out, but there were so many, and they'd be running and hiding and playing.

[57:55]

He couldn't get them all out by physically doing that. And he said, the house is burning. Leave at once. Go. And... They just were so involved in their games. It's like, oh, Dad, you know, you're always saying, do this, do that. We're playing. He was like, how am I going to save them? So then he thought about something. This is a parable. He said to the children, I have these wonderful gifts for you. They're out on the lawn. I've got deer carts and goat carts and ox carts. No, not ox carts. Deer carts and ox carts. I have animal carts for you that you've always wanted. And come on, everybody. And they said, ooh, better, more fun things to play with. And they all exited the house into safety on the front lawn. When they got there, there wasn't all those carts that their dad had said. There was just one big ox cart that was really fancy, though, with raspberry crimson-colored pillows and tassels and things.

[58:58]

Anyway... The parable is that that was the Buddha, the owner of the house, and we're all these children, very involved and distracted in our games and our desires, and the Buddha promised us things, being an arhat or, you know, these, but the, which attracted us. But, The real thing the Buddha wanted to give us was just the one ekha sattva, the one path of a being, which is all of us are Buddha nature. So in this parable, did the Buddha lie? Did this person lie to get the children out? Or did the Buddha lie by offering different turnings of the wheel by not the full thing? So that's one.

[59:58]

And the other parable in the Lotus Sutra is very similar. It's a physician. His children are ill, and he wants them to take their medicine, and they are kind of out of their minds, actually, and they won't take the medicine. He's got the medicine for them. Take your medicine. They won't. And it also has a... It connects with Peter Pan, the story of Peter Pan as well, but... Anyway, so this physician says, I have to go on a trip. I'm going to leave you. Take your medicine. They don't do it. So he leaves, and then he sends word back that he's died on the roads somewhere. And the children are, like, shocked into, you know, dropping their kind of delusive thinking and activity because their father is dead. It's like they're, you know, in... pain around this and grieving, and they say, he would want us to take our medicine, let's take our medicine.

[61:02]

He asked us to, let's take. So they take the medicine and they regain their state of mind. So that's the other Lotus Sutra parable where people say, did the physician, who's the Buddha in this case, who's offering the medicine of the teaching, and then what it refers to is, The Buddha's dying in Parinirvana. Looks like the Buddha died, right? We have the Parinirvana Sutra, and the Buddha lived and died. But in the Lotus Sutra, these are Lotus Sutra teachings. We chanted it recently. Chapter 16, the lifespan of the Tathagata, where the Buddha is eternal. The Buddha never dies. The Dharmakaya... Three bodies of Buddha are eternal or everlasting.

[62:03]

But had he not died, we wouldn't have taken up because he was there. The Buddha was always there so we could relax in a certain way. So skillful means he looked like he died. This is Lotus Sutra teachings. But anyway, this question of did he lie or not is turned over and over and over when... when you study the lotus, actually. Okay, so those, I think, were most of what I wanted to bring up about lying, false speech, abandoning false speech. And what would you like to bring up or add? And also, I wanted to mention, sometimes people are shy about... thinking about it they have something they might want to say but they might hesitate or hold back or not oh that's one of the five fears you know speaking in front of the assembly I just wanted to encourage people to bring your voice into the room to add to the conversation that will be going on all practice period those of you who have been refraining from speaking to come forward and and

[63:24]

those of you who are very comfortable speaking, see if there's some space where others can come and speak before you join in. Yes? Yeah, so it's interesting, like, adding, although it's, like, not lying, it's very, like, big value. Big value in your family? Mm-hmm. it's interesting that there is a kind of we don't lie but it's also it seems to me that it's um we are losing the opportunity like it i don't know if it's kind of more like resilient and we don't think but then we are always kind of a little less it seems that we we don't lie but then we like People are more smart and they are the nice and kind of we stay in a position of not being as nice, but we don't like.

[64:34]

And I feel that it's a little of this aspect and you're saying like, oh, I'm such a bad person. Like, it isn't effectiveness, but I feel that it's the role we don't like. But it's also feeling of, you know, They're not as good as other people? I'm not sure I got everything you said, so let me try to say that. So you said in your family there's a very strong value to tell the truth and not to lie. But at the same time, holding to that value created a situation where they were maybe... People took advantage of them. It's kind of more, I don't know if I have a specific example, but it's a general feeling. Like, we tell the truth, and we are kind of proud of it. Yes, yes.

[65:35]

But in the other hand, like we live in a church where everyone lives. Yes, yes, yes. So it's a feeling of being always a bit smaller. You know, like people are doing that. They don't do that. They're proud of that. But in the other hand, I've always been missing something. Yes, so if you're in a place where people are using, stretching the truth, or using it in such a way to their own advantage, it looks like they're not holding to, I don't lie, I'm honest, and they're advancing in the culture or in people's estimation, and the ones who are simply staying with honesty, they're like at a disadvantage in some way, something like that. Yeah, yeah. or being taken advantage of because they are upright. Yeah, that's so, that's very hard, you know, to see that and feel, what is the, isn't there a phrase like, good guys go last or something like that?

[66:44]

Or, you know, like, to get ahead, you've got to pull strings and finesse and do, and stretch the truth. So I think that's a cultural belief maybe, that that's how you have to work the system. And is that conducive to a life that's actually settled and peaceful and true and in alignment with what we see as reality and how we want to live or not. I think, you know, it's like you get too much change at a store and, oh, I got a little extra 50 cents. How great, you know. There's also that, you know, there's a lot of things in there. There's taking what it's not given. There's also the lie that you got the right change. So to give back the change or to keep the change, we can find out for ourself what works for our life.

[67:50]

We can discover it because it's, you know, some of them feel, well, too bad, they're a big corporation, they can lose a few pennies, and I need it, you know. What happens to our psychophysical self when we're acting and living in that way? And can't we settle, when I was talking about ethical life in terms of shila, samadhi, and prashna, living in that way, can we sit? in peace, in contentment, really, which is one of the eight awakenings of great beings, to be content. So I think it's a wonderful thing to turn, you know, and it comes back to how do I want to live, really. Actually, I remember when I started practicing. Yes. Yes, they're not taking advantage of you because this is your, you want to live this way?

[69:13]

But it's interesting because sometimes I assume this should happen with feet because it's a very hard feeling that you are not lying and also you are in a disadvantage. It's painful. Yes. Yes. Yeah, there's a lot more to say about that. It just what popped into my mind was privilege, you know, and which is a kind of... lie in a certain way in terms of how it is that privilege flows to some and not to others is or advantages flow to some and not to others is in terms of the the reality and the truth of our existence it's it's a kind of lie that we that when it's uncovered, you know, and we look at it, it's so pervasive that we can't even see it.

[70:26]

Yes, go ahead. We can be so kind of over-sensitive to people's sense of self-worth or whatever that we don't tell the truth. Not that we lie, but we also don't express what we're really thinking about the situation or we feel put out about something or we feel like something is not coming well or whatever. But we're afraid to hurt other people. or whatever, so we don't express it. And then the flip side of that is that what people do, we kind of judge them, or we kind of say, like, how could you say that to me, or how could you speak like that, or I am so hurt because you were, you know, saying that, when I think it's kind of disguising actual truth, you know, that you didn't need to look at that, or you didn't.

[71:46]

something that wasn't given, but we don't want to be honest about that. Someone called us out on it, and we're going to put it on them. So it would be harsh, or it's just a strong word. So also, I think there's kind of like a cultural thing about that going on. Oh, you know, there's, I feel like there's been a lot of views about, you know, literally correct speech and we'll be very sensitive to that and there's kind of like tension but how are we how can we be honest about the hard things how can we talk about hard things but people might get their feelings hurt you know how do you or do you just never say anything about anything out of fear for hurting people yeah is that awesome yeah and it was all really important points i think the Communication and the, like walking out of eggs when we try to bring something out in an honest way, and then the defensiveness, these are all part of, I think, communication skills and right speech completely.

[73:03]

And also there's a difference between hurting and harming. You know, to say to somebody what, I think this is in Reb's chapter about not lying, You know, I was very upset when you talked to that person and spoke to them in that way or whatever. You give somebody feedback, and some of the feelings get hurt, but your intention, this is where the intention comes in, it's to shine the light of the precepts on the actions, and it isn't harmful to the person, actually. It will... We can be hurt by someone when we, and hurt by ourselves when we look at our actions, but it isn't harm. It has a beneficial effect like medicine. It's like medicine that tastes terrible.

[74:06]

So, you know, Fu's been very big on his radical candor recently. Did she talk about that in the practice period here? Yeah, so this... Not being willing to actually say and give honest feedback is not necessarily helpful to the person who then continues acting in a certain way and eventually something worse happens or they're in a job, they're asked to leave or something. So how do we find the words that are... accurate, coming from the right place. And it takes courage, I think. Yes. And just push that on someone.

[75:13]

Yes, and it's a dance, you know, because how it was said may have been not so skillful, actually, so they get the pushback and they can learn from that. But sometimes anything that's brought up, you're getting close to some part, the defenses go up. So how to receive feedback, you know, and people who, do we want feedback, really? Do we really? Yes. You know, sometimes we say it, but we don't. Keep it to yourself. You know, leave me alone. So, yeah. Yeah. So the example you gave of Dita Bada Lai in the Lotus Sutra. Yes. I've often heard as an example of skillful. Yes. And, you know, if you are, with the Shiri, for example, I often... You know, people will break the shinny and don't think much often because if everybody said, oh, you know, it's not immoral for me to do that, you know, they didn't want to break from the precepts, just the shame.

[76:26]

And for me, this often affects me because I actually feel like breaking the shinny is lying. You're in one way kind of in front of the community and you're in the other way in private. And I find it hard to trust. when there's kind of the two phases that's going on. And when I have kind of brought this up, I'm often sort of seeing this being kind of narrow, strict, or black and white. And usually the Mahayana is appealed to in skillful means. There's a kind of broader, wider way of thinking about this. Yeah. Thank you for bringing that up. I think, you know, We have, as Suzuki Roshi said, a Hinayana practice with a Mahayana mind. So meaning we do, well, that's what's offered here is Shiki and observing and the different, but it's not holding to it or attached to it.

[77:35]

So in the first lecture I gave, I was talking about creating all of us together, creating a good place to practice, you know, a peaceful place to practice. And when someone, I'm often, I think, thought of as, what is it, like Little Miss Form, you know. And I'm trying to describe my sense of what the forms are for us. and convey the life-giving kind of royal road to working on your karmic stuff that is so hard to work on. And the Shingi were created to help us do that. And then for someone to just like, well, that's for them or not for me, the cohesion kind of is lost.

[78:38]

But ever since Tassara started, there was... There's this, you know, and I think there's also, you know, going over the wall in Japanese monasteries where you climb over the wall and go to town or whatever. So in some ways there's traditions of breaking them, which I think are a little bit different from, oh, this doesn't apply to me, everybody else but not me. To me, that always seems like it's so embarrassing because to me it's just... In terms of working with our karma and ego stuff and self-clinging and stuff, it's just like this flag, you know, of I'm special, you know, or something. But I don't think it's up to us to bring it up to a person, actually. I think people need to find it for themselves or bring it...

[79:42]

you know, to talk about it because, yeah, I think it's really hard to bring up to someone else what you think about their practice, you know. I think it never goes well, as far as I can tell, unless you've really been given permission to get in there with them. Yeah, so I don't know if you found that to be true, that it doesn't go so well. yeah yeah it's um i think when we think of the shingi as something that's being applied on top of us rather than this is something we chose and it's been passed down as a wonderful way to work with our habits and

[80:45]

I found it interesting to be in such an evening once and I'm leaving to be asked to watch how you leak your energy, especially through speech, through what you told her. There's that kind of, and you can really feel it in your body, dissipation. And so I think that how I leak. And I'm cleaning up my spills here and there. I found that to be helpful. But what strikes me is that what I see the most is when I'm telling the truth, but in such a way that I'm leaking in there. There's something leaking in the speaking of the truth. And this comes from lifelong experience of working and living with denial and self-deception and how sometimes when you are speaking the truth you're actually in a way driving people further to denial or there's some kind of complicity in the truth just because of your tone like there's a leak in the tone there's a

[82:21]

a spill that's happening. Yeah, so this is all part of it. It's part of what you're doing is evaluating and judging the other person and their practice and as you tell them your truth. So I think you're right. Where is it coming from speaking that truth or bringing something up to someone? Is there any praising self at the expense of others? What's in there? Because I think we can speak not leaking, you know, leaking has to do with duality, right? Self and other. And when we speak to someone, you know, this is our challenge in our practices, speaking to someone as not separate from us, you know, rather than, you know, the leaking is this Dividing up, yeah.

[83:26]

I wanted to, what I mentioned to you about bringing up some time when you were lied or when you were lied to, I'd like to switch to doing that practice. And I just wanted to say a few words about what I'd like you to be doing. Part of this practice period, as I said, earlier is not only right speech, upright and complete speech, but silence and listening. And Lauren brought up listening and silence, speaking and expression in silence. And Tova's going to be speaking on the 10th when I'm away. Tova will be giving the Dharma talk and bringing up some of these things. So I wanted to talk about the practice of listening, which is an incredibly powerful practice, which has the possibility of healing, connecting, helping people in ways that it's really hard to even know how.

[84:33]

It's a basic practice that we have. It's the practice of Avalokiteshvara, who hears the cries of the world. It's compassion practice and wisdom practice, so listening. And there's a way of listening... that's responding to people and responding to their whole self, what they're bringing to what they're saying. And so these are some of the things that get in the way of really listening to somebody, which I'd like you to kind of think about a little bit. One is... our body language, where we're distracted. Have you ever been talking to somebody about something and they're, oh, those people look interesting over there. They're distracted and kind of looking around or looking down. So being very aware of really being with the person and let go of other distracting things. Another thing, and what we're going to be doing today, is you're just going to be listening.

[85:38]

You're not going to be... saying what you heard or anything, but just completely full-body listening to the person. And part of what comes naturally when you're full-body listening is there'll be body language, you know, there'll be very naturally a nod or something will happen when you're completely with them, but you don't have to say anything. This will also help with what happens often in conversation when we want to say something and we begin thinking about what I'm going to say. As soon as there's a pause, I'm going to jump in with this thing that I want to say. So we begin thinking about that, and we lose what the person is saying. So you're not going to be saying anything, so you don't have to worry about getting in the conversation or adding anything, commenting. Just completely listening. So another part of listening is not to interrupt another person.

[86:44]

This is just in our daily conversation. Sometimes people from their own backgrounds and kind of culture, interrupting is kind of a thing. It's the way you talk over somebody and you get in your thing. It almost feels like an argument to somebody who's not used to it. It's a cutting off, but that often will not allow you to really hear the other person if you're interrupting cutting him. Making eye contact is really important. Some people, that is very, very hard. But just to relax and breathe and look at the person when they're talking to you. Avoid distracting actions and gestures while somebody's talking, whatever that might be. Just kind of zazen of listening, maybe. So you're attending, you're hearing, you're listening completely, and you're understanding.

[87:55]

And often what comes in is... a feeling, you know, empathy. You actually feel something from what they're saying. What was painful to them, you, with our limbic brains, as Lauren was saying, we can actually feel what another person might be going through, right? So, so pay attention completely. Show your listening in whatever way that means. Sometimes you end up leaning forward a little bit, you know, as you're listening. These are just body things that naturally happen. Let go of judgments is another thing. You know, they're saying something and, oh, I wouldn't have done it that way, or no wonder they said that because they just, you know, it's not necessary for this. So that's the exercise, okay?

[88:59]

It's kind of active listening, reflective listening. It's sometimes called, and because you're not speaking, we'll continue with this practice during the practice period of then reflecting back to the person what you heard. But for today, we're just going to completely listen to what the story is, okay? So... I know it's getting late. I think we'll probably go to service. So why don't you... Is there a bell here? Yes, there's a bell. Could you bring me the bell here? So if you could silently get into dyads, get into twos, and make little twosies turn to your neighbor, or probably Sanrici would be good for you to work with... if that would be okay. So everybody choose a partner and just turn to them, but don't talk right now.

[90:00]

And if there's anyone without a partner, raise your hand if you don't have a partner. Okay, find each other. Okay, so has everyone thought of... of a situation, something that happened where you either told a lie or someone lied to you. Does everyone have something in mind that you thought of? Okay, so why don't you choose right now who the first person will be who will start talking first. It could be the one with the longest hair. One more who needs a partner. So let's make a threesome somewhere if we need. Is there a threesome there? Okay. So what we're going to do is the one who's the listener, get settled in a comfortable way so you can really listen.

[91:10]

And actually... I don't know if this is going to be a lot of talking, but let's try it. So talk more quietly maybe just because so many people are here. And I'll ring the bell, and for the one who's talking, I think I'm going to give you like three minutes to tell your story. I think that might work. And include the story and then how it affected you. Okay? And then we'll stop briefly, and then we'll switch. Okay? And with the threes, the last thing will be a chance to just talk together, and you can use that. Okay, Rhett, everybody ready? And something that came up that you'd... like to say further about your story, or you can have a little conversation or ask a question about what just went on.

[92:15]

Okay, for the next three or four minutes. Okay. Arrangement. So I just wanted to take a few minutes. If anyone has anything they'd like to say about what it felt like to listen in that way completely and what it felt like to be listened to, if you felt anything or want to share anything about that. Yes. One of the things that I felt immediately was a kinship to my experience, but with very similar experiences or just other experiences. Some experiences that were like the same kind of situation or had some sort of similarity in quality. And it felt like I just wanted to say like, yeah, yeah, totally felt all of that. So a kinship and a connection.

[93:16]

Yeah, yeah. Sam? I kept watching my head moving around. And then I tried to stop it. I noticed many nodding, nods going on. And I think that's encouraging to the person listening that someone's kind of with them. Anyone else? Yes. It struck me how nice it was to have this intimate conversation And I just felt like it doesn't happen all the time here. And so I thought, well, what am I talking about? Yeah, yeah. This active, reflective listening is available all day long. And the quality of it is really different than some other kind of conversation, too.

[94:23]

Other comments? Yes, Diego. I also felt that it's something that people who haven't gone very similar to what happens in cross-technicals. There's no cross-talk. Yes. You talk, just listen. You're probably even nodding. It's just being heard. Thank you. Hey, I just wanted to end. I gave this to you, the flower ornament scripture, this little piece about great enlightening beings have ten kinds of speech. I thought if anyone wanted to memorize this or a paragraph, you could recite it in class, but I'll just read the first part. Great enlightening beings have ten kinds of speech, gentle speech, causing all sentient beings to be calm, sweet elixir, speech, causing all sentient beings to be clear and cool, non-deceptive speech, everything they say being true, truthful speech, not lying, even in dreams.

[95:35]

There's more, but not lying. It's in your packet. I have written Flower Ornament Scripture, the Avatamsaka Sutra. Okay, thank you all very much. Thank you for listening to this podcast offered by the San Francisco Zen Center. Our Dharma talks are offered free of charge, and this is made possible by the donations we receive. Your financial support helps us to continue to offer the Dharma. For more information, visit sfcc.org and click Giving.

[96:14]

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