2002.10.19-serial.00059

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the
about the both my talk was more powerful
not always so
no one saw as the title by
correction
you know
what's the second collection suzuki vs talks
since be relishing the man who founded vincent
a
levels ancestor
this is our
a set of torque specs
was edited by ed brown who did quite a wonderful job more beautiful metaphor beautifully edited
kansas is it the nurses
the title or not always so is actually in one of the talks
i don't remember exactly how it goes bad
at one point he says simple like suzuki as who says something like zen practice can be summarized
two words
not always suck
the
pepper

so the passage that i'm recording is from love the first section of the book which is about sitting practice zazen practice
about she can't hazard which means and japanese frames it means just to sit
and in some way
we could say i'm just sitting as the heart of our practice
whether we're sitting or not where there were sitting with our lives cross them or not

so this passages or at the very end of that first section i'm sitting
page thirty thirty one
so it goes like this
couple of paragraphs on
when we practice zazen
we are practicing with all the ancestors
we should clearly know this point

you cannot waste your time
what have been novel your practice he's not tell them
you may not even understand it
but some day some time
someone will accept your practice
so just practice without random
without being involved in sightseeing zaza
when
we'll have a chance
to join our practice
good or bad doesn't matter
if you sit with this understand having conviction in your
buddha nature
then sooner or later you will find yourself in the midst of great zen masters

so the important point is to practice without any idea of a hasty game
what about any idea of thing or a profit
we do not practice thousand for the sake of others
aurora for the sake of ourselves
just practice zazen for the sake of zazen
just sit

those are suzuki or she's a word
and down
i really appreciate them are very deep profound and words
i'm saying little bit about different characters
and also it's very heartwarming because it's canada and the language of suzuki roshi suzuki roshi isms
the particular locations they flew once fonda
for example that
so the important point is to practice without any idea of a hasty game
now if you're a native english speaker you wouldn't say
without any idea of a hasty game with kind of an awkward way to say that was the his that was his english
without being involved in sightseeing zaza
that was some kind of greenwich facebook
a very heartwarming to
have a capturing their and the page

so he is speaking about zazen and zazen practice sitting practice
i but maybe the first thing i would want to say is that i don't think he is just speaking about slauson practice it's not limited to zaza practice
some of you i think there's a practice period going on here now in fact i know there is because the shoe so is an old friend of my mac lesser
i'm a man didn't come today my talk
when he said he was gonna take happened sooner we'll get to hear that
though he had other more important thing
all the name
anyway
i know there's a practice period going on here and my wife was the coal abbess of zen center just is leading a practice grade that just started at green gulch as well
so during practice parade indeed there is lot of city made me more than you've ever done in your life and these words are very very useful when we practice zazen lawyer practicing with all my ancestors
our but even if you don't even if this is the first time you've ever sat with your legs crossed them
even if you're not in practice period or even if whatever still i think suzuki roshi his words are quite are relevant
when my own feeling is that it's a big mistake
to understand ma'am
ah
excuse me to understand you might say religious ideals or spiritual ideas in literal a way to reduce them to a kind of literal fundamentalist pick
rigid idea
if we have a rigid idea
some spiritual notion so my dear good or bad heaven or hell
look we have a very limited idea of this that produces the him and now there's no end of trouble that comes from that no and of destruction
as where you are
this may be political analysis so to speak
and the point of practice is exactly the opposite but point of practices to free us from rigidities
to free us from stiff ideas a wholly i once thriving what's wrong cruise good and who's bad

to free us
inside herself
from whatever idea were stuck on
so on so i would offer suzuki roshi words as specifically about zazen but also in a wider way
in fact down the first time i read the words that i just quoted i was on a hiking trip in high sierra
evolution valley
and don't know been named a revolution valley the named all of the peeps right guy
mount darwin
an hour mendel
come out from evolution down now coincidentally i was in evolution down with mark lesser
it is mostly hud as well as to other old cronies
who are on
we all knew each other at tassajara when we practice who lived in practice at tassajara
about thirty years ago actually
at the end of the trip you know we were november we had
six or seven days worth of beard in and of course you want someone to take your picture because you look in know he looked like you you know it look really good to him
even or mountains now mountain man read tough we will to come from the mountains or so we met these other people please have a poor women
who were also hiking around with their spouses summer and that we got it i always sisters they said
so we said would you take our picture seven hours or took out on you have brothers are no no an apprentice or you must have known each other in college
no actually we practice and together and a zen monastery thirty years ago from a premium
i said to one of them and she said oh
hi
she probably well california
people day from on than out here
so ah

now for all four of us it's true that we practice zazen a lot thirty years ago when we lived at tassajara and some of us have practiced intensive and since but again mostly that mostly the four of us have not spent most of every day practicing zazen for the last thirty years but still
this is where i first read this passage we even that a little suzuki roshi discussion group in the evenings when that one
when they were hiking
and for all four of these people as for many
as for many other as maybe for you thirty years from now even if you just spend a month or three months or six months or five years
practicing together with other people for these poor people in by this experience is kind of they're they there's then life even now no one was this a computer software mkhitaryan so on and so hard know there's no life actually is a film this
the height of their life
this is the core of my life

mrs because the point of practice is an unlimited just the city
but can be ex extended more widely than that
and some of what suzuki roshi says it's not possible to understand really in a literal way anyway
when he says
if you sit with this understanding having conviction in your buddha nature
then sooner or later you will find yourself in the midst of great zen masters
sooner or later you will find yourself in their midst of great zen masters
what did he mean
my sense is that there are two basic interpretations one is focused on sooner or later
namely later
a much much
later than anything
i don't think about it it's so much later
that's one interpretation
when in the midst of grades than minister sooner or later we will find yourself if you sit with this understand having conviction in your good and nature sooner or later you will find yourself in the midst of great zen masters
i don't think he meant that after you practiced some years than you take a trip to china or japan and then you're in the midst of great zen masters
in the east
i don't think he meant there's a secret cabal of great zen masters hiding in a basement in
peoria illinois
our bloomington indiana
i don't think he meant that
sooner or later you will find yourself in the midst of great zen masters these great zen masters i think he meant these are the same people who yesterday were not great zen masters
when your mother on your granddaughter on your ankle neighbor or her friend or your enemy when a person on that
freeway driving next to you

the person on the freeway driving next to you who cuts you off
so it's got that cutting all resemblance
the
these are the great sandblasting that you will find yourself in the next time
and not just people but also
things and experiences
and emotions anger zen master
upset state of mind the zen master
maybe cancer zen master
he's
these then masters sometimes these investors are very very strict
strict teachers hard to practice with
feeling of failure i have failed in my life zen master
this is a tough teach her to practice will
i have heard someone else zen master a tough teacher
if we said if we practice began live with this understand having conviction and our buddha nature
and sooner or later we will find ourselves in the midst of these great zen masters

ah
or the beginning of a passage that i quoted
when we practice thousand we are practicing with all the ancestors you should clearly know this point
again this is not amenable really to a literal understanding
ma'am
i haven't we practice thousand and they are practicing with all the ancestors since my path or only one way to understand it is that
we'd better be good
santa claus is coming to town here when we practice thousand we have all the zen masters with us
i want it all the ancestors are with
so we we should really really do really try you know really do our best
that's one side the other side is
when we practice zazen we are practicing the all the ancestors when we practice when we make an effort and everyone in there to help us all the ancestors of the and to help us
when not alone
we have help we have assistance when you have encouragement
hum all my ancestors
dogan and don't shop
shocking money buddha but not only those ancestors also from your own grandfather or grandmother
i'm shakespeare die of shower bob dylan i'm shallow any any up
that are with us to encourage us and help us in the
i hope as fellow our path
find our path and follow our ban find our way and commit ourselves to that way and work on play with live it

when we practice thousand and we are practicing with all the ancestors you should clearly know this point
you cannot waste your time
even though your practices and that sort of good
you may not even understand it
it was very deep you may not even understand it
do you mean you may not even understand you made our supposed to devote myself to this practice and spend endless hours looking at some dumb war and i may not even understand it i'm an american i won't stand for
that
i have my rights
you may not even understand it he says
we want to understand it
we think we need to understand it
we think we need to understand as in and zen practice and our life and what to do and what not to do we think we need to understand it we need to and somebody should explain it to us
when will understand it and then we'll be able to figure out what to do one two three it's a simple simple formula
somebody can explain zen practice oh works this way do this and this and the news and the benefits that accrue
short time in town of long term benefits that accrue from zen practice like stocks run
and then we can cut them and oh i see where we do this when you do this and you have to sit this many hours and lives these things happen and arm and then we can compare to other practices and see which are better this one might be better at one might be better
what does that cost benefit analysis
we can do a cost benefit analysis
so why is it there were so interested in understanding it is because we're afraid of are on fettered wife of course who are afraid of it
we're afraid of coming
trader open
possibilities who knows what might happen
who knows what might happen according not in control of things
how dogan quote saying i think it's you a book ceo but so he says that he got an all he's calling somebody else and he says them
one student asked down
when a thousand a myriad things come all at once what should i do math teacher said don't try to control
that's a tall order
which is one thing coming we want to control never mind that thousand things that are endlessly coming our way
we want to control it because we're afraid if we don't we think if we control than we can were in charge and were protected and were safe
so when suzuki roshi says you may not even understand it this is a radical
a radically different perspective a radically different basis for approaching our life
then our usual way

how say
you can believe it this is one word in sanskrit i know a love get down a marker shanty with means now
he intuitive tolerance
for the inconceivable save ability of all things
the into tolerance how do we tolerate
not understanding
on one way is that we don't tolerate it would turn it into understanding we'd turn it into analysis we turn it into control we turn it into
something that we can grab a hold up
but to tolerate you may not even understand it
to tolerate the anxiety and the disturbance or that now openness and back and then they say the radical openness of
this is i think what suzuki roshi is encouraging us to do
simply by saying well you may not understand it
and then there's the clincher you may not understand it but some time some day someone will accept your practice this is this is instead of understanding it and controlling
sunday sometimes someone will accept your practice
and again i think there's a more literal way and a less literal way of understanding and for some of us sometime it may be very useful to have some person that who's not yourself saying oh i accept your practice
i accept your practice
so a wonderful thing
but also we shouldn't forget that the one who accepts my practice is here

to accept nine practice
sunday sometimes someone will accept your practice
ha this is called on
zen talk with as called throwing yourself into the house of buddha
highly recommended practice
so just practice without rhonda
without being involved in sightseeing zaza

suzuki roshi here is reflecting
among others he's reflecting
doug
dog and who comes as any and the universal
admonitions in the universal encouragements about how to do zaza
dogan says why leave the seat that exists in your own home to go on to the dusty realms of other lands
this is the same as suzuki roshi seen snow
just practice without wandering don't wander into the dusty realms of other lands
don't go sightseeing even to beautiful fabulous was terrific sites
don't be involved with the sightsee thousand
why leave the seat that exists in your own home to go off to the dusty rounds of our last dog in asks why we leave that seat
squeeze me well the reason we lead that say this because we don't wipe the seat that exists in our own home were like that seat
the wrong color
the
it's an embarrassing seat you wouldn't invite somebody in tehran onto the seat as in your own home was very embarrassing
that's why we're leaving the seat
we could tell mr go good wine that's why
so i thought of an illustration for this
telephone immediate illustration
chris then went to see what time it is now i'm doing great i play it
so the illustration is this dharma talk and i'm giving today
which you know
i appreciate very much given in diamond talk
for many reasons
i get to hear the dharma
and that's always nice good good for you
and
it's a way for me to express my gratitude
two suzuki roshi
what's showing up
i'm i'm grateful for that
and down

so there are many reasons now among those reasons for new one of the things that i like about giving a dharma talk is that afterward
after the top is over
you know sometimes ten minutes after it's over or even a week after it's over someone will come up to me and say that was a terrific diamond top
this is pod or this is part of why i like giving the dharma talk i really one
oh thank you

for month from now or years later but he other day somebody who i've known for many years called me and said there something i will retire in about seventy and said oh i heard you really get great dharma talks they're very deep and will all be dead
okay i'm kidding
sarah
now according to the rules i'm not supposed to care
the
i'm supposed to have an attitude of is that so terrific diameter is that so
the terrible dharma talk is that so
that's the attitude i was supposed to your hat
but the seat that exists in why on home
to not go wandering off to the dusty realms of other land was seat that exists in my own home includes this who i have
i don't need to excluded even though it makes my seat look in a not quite zen and now not quite fancy not quite slick not quite beautiful and spiritual end her you know indifferent to the
passionate core sings in the world
this is the seat that exists in my own home this is where i have to find room and this seat
you see what i mean i'm telling you this
so that you understand the same thing for you
he must have something like this for you write something that doesn't look so good you don't think all this is well then he knows where terrific where you want everyone to see like this not when you're doing something embarrassing
but this is the seat that exists in your own home
don't go off to the dusty rounds of other lands why go off to the dusty rounds of other way
for i leave the seat that exists in our own home this is where we practice dogan is telling us right here in this in this who i am
in this existence not some fancy existence that we're going to find after we attain enlightenment but now
we have to make room we have to make room in are very limited live for the unlimited
not just where it's easy to make room but one were being cut off on the freeway perhaps were at the seat that exists in our own home that's where we have to
make room
in the v momma kitty sutra are being on a cutie is a rich person
and he's sick and buddha was a friend of his wants the in our kind of send over some emissaries to kind of give give v mala qt his regards i hope you're feeling better hope you get better soon so on and simple
so he convinces as a lot buddha has a lot of trouble convincing anybody to go over and talked to be more accurately for reasons i won't get complicated problem the very funny sutra usually don't think of sutures has been paid by piece as a lot of humor in this one
anyway manjushri says okay i'll go off someone's issues going on so then because everybody knows that when manjushri comes over manjushri and about v momma kitty are going to have a really terrific dharma discussion so eighty four thousand body soft softly
hey know of you're going manjushri i'll go to for eighty four thousand and bodhisattvas go with manjushri now the molecule qt even though is rich
he lives in a very small room is bed where his sick he's sick in bed and it's an room it's only ten feet by ten feet
maybe someone someone here knows i think a japanese that whole gel ten feet by ten feet of whole job and that's the address or abbott's quarters are called hotel
so like suzuki roshi his wife used to call her husband she didn't call him suzuki roshi she called him paul joseph means ten foot mr ten foot
mr ten feet by ten feet so the molecule in this comes from the be molecule qt sutra where the market was in bed in a room that was just ten feet by ten feet so any four thousand body surface plasmon usually come on home and i show putra
another one of these eighty four thousand he's kind of the fall guy and and now
and been on a cutie suture he wants in the door and kind of looks around
when thinks to himself how are eighty four thousand body south gonna fit in here
no one of the conceits of the vimalakirti sutra is that the momma kitty concrete sharing put your mind so he read show putra mine and he reprimands this is shouted putra
i don't remember exactly what he says but something like you know don't have such a limited idea
and then he magically manifests eighty four thousand golden throngs
one thrown each for each one and eighty four thousand and bodhisattvas
and then it says in the sutra
but the room did not get any bigger
i'm just in case you're wondering the body surface or the least human size they're not
at least as big as humans made me bigger
this is
why leave the seat that exists in your own ten foot home to go off to the dusty ground was of other lane
eighty four thousand body surface and fit
into this ten by ten room
enlightened then fits into my crummy life your your life
whether it's good or bad happy or sad
realization
emptiness openness fits
doesn't need any special place to defend
it'll fit wherever you are that's why he says just practice without wandering
the without being involved
in
sightseeing zazen then you have a chance to join our practice then you have a chance to practice when you don't go sightseeing don't go to the dusty realms of other plans like stay at home with where i am now
good or bad doesn't matter severe and she says good or bad doesn't matter
he means our idea of our own practice our idea of our own life
whether our idea is all this is good practice this is bad practices as a terrible life this is a good life this is a wonderful moment this is an awful moment it doesn't matter
it simply doesn't matter
if you sit with this understanding having conviction
in your buddha nature when sooner or later
we will find yourself in the midst of great zen masters
huh
sarah
last point i'll make and is about this last
sentinels
when you sit with this understand i'm having conviction in your a good and egypt

and we could say no
ah
that really really zen practice is about encouraging our life
which is the same thing as cultivating
cultivate cultivating the conviction in my own buddha nature and your own good in nature
the teacher asked the student how is your practice the students said robbery
the teacher said oh you're a wobbly buddha
no
this is having conviction in your own good and nature
and we think
i will take their time with some special gate the gate is always there the gate is was close
to recognize this and
huh
huh

thank you