Before I became a Zen priest, I didn't realize how much of being a Zen priest was cloth management. There's more to it than meets the eye. The other day somebody said to me, gee, you don't look very happy bowing. I said I love to bow, it's just the cloth is not behaving properly. So when I go to bow, this part here starts to fall out, and then this part here that's supposed to come here, it starts to slide down. Tugging like this and flipping this back over here. And after a while I get sort of frustrated and then it looks like I don't like to bow, but I actually like to bow. Anyway, in case any of you are thinking of possibly entering the Zen priesthood, cloth management, be prepared.

[01:01]

It's actually cloth management as a way, a study. Well, more about that another time. I did recently, by the way, I hear there's a new t-shirt out, and it says, no pain, dash, no pain. So I thought that's good because it's kind of my school of Zen. And I'm not real big on the, you know, we're supposed to not be very big on the gain part, you know, so that slogan matches that perfectly. No pain, no pain. All right. So now that I've acclimated myself to being here and acclimated you to me, I'll start my talk. I have to kind of catch my breath walking over here and then doing those bows and everything.

[02:16]

Anyway, tonight I want to talk about the way and the expression, way-seeking mind. In Zen, from Japan anyway, we're often encouraged, arouse way-seeking mind. And I was mentioning to the people here this week for my cooking workshop that several years ago, a woman came and did a newspaper article for the Fresno Bee about the cooking workshop. And I had spoken a lot that week about way-seeking mind, mind that seeks the way, the eternal way, the true way. And she went back and wrote that I talked a lot about waste-seeking mind. So maybe they're actually pretty similar. I'm talking about way-seeking mind. It's not either W-H-E-Y or W-E-I-G-H, it's W-A-Y, the way. And anyway, we're encouraged to arouse this way-seeking mind

[03:31]

because actually it turns out that very few people awaken a true way-seeking mind. This mind that seeks the true way, a real way to happiness, to peace, to fulfillment, to the way to knowing yourself, being at home in the world, realizing yourself, realizing the way. Because it's very easy to be caught in the way of trying to please others, to please yourself. To be accomplished. We're often caught by performance, performing up to some expectation or standard. And there's also wanting to...

[04:39]

So we are attracted by finding the way to success, the way to impress others. And so on. So we often, because we're so caught up like this, we often neglect the true way to happiness or to realizing yourself. Finding your own way in your life that is a true expression of your life. And after a while, especially as we get older, it becomes even more impossible or difficult because you know, we have... I just bought a house recently. You know, we have a 30-year mortgage and, you know, we may have kids. And so we feel like, well, I have to take care of all these things regardless of whether or not

[05:48]

it is fulfilling my way or finding my way. And, you know, we're very fortunate when we can see our life as it is, as the way. This is, you know, very empowering for us. And then our energy can really be in our life because we understand my life as it is, is the way. There's not some other special or better way outside of my life. So I find this at times, you know, since I at times am in the role of being a teacher,

[06:52]

I find it very frustrating at times. I did a class, for instance, last year I was in North Carolina to lead a Zen sitting and someone had called ahead and arranged for me to do a baking class, a bread baking class. So there was about a dozen people coming and I set up two batches of three kinds of bread. So we had six batches of bread going with 12 people. That meant that two people could work on each batch. It was very convenient. And then I demonstrate mixing up initially the flour, yeast, sweetening, and half the flour, so about half the flour. So it's what we call a sponge. And then I started to show how to add the remaining flour. And then I was going to show how to knead. And there was two, well, they were guys. Guys get a little more caught up in performance than women, you know.

[07:55]

But not that women, you know, don't care about how they look or anything, but, you know, men want to perform. So there was a couple of fellows who didn't wait for me to show how I kneaded the bread. They just went ahead and kneaded their bread in a way that I didn't think was particularly like how to knead bread. Because when you knead bread, you're trying to add air to the dough. They were kneading more like the bread so that you would remove air from the dough. So, you know, when you knead clay, you try to get the air out of the clay. That's the point. And then when you knead bread, you're trying to get the air into the bread. That's the point. So it's two different methods. And they were kneading their bread more like it was kneading clay. And I didn't know what to say. I was kind of dumbfounded. I wondered why they were at this class, since they didn't seem to be interested in what I was showing.

[09:02]

And they seemed to be more interested, actually, in impressing the rest of the class that they already knew how to knead bread. I don't know what the rest of the class thought, but or if the rest of the class was especially impressed, they were watching me as I explained how I knead the bread. Anyway, probably under some circumstances, I would say, say something like, excuse me, but I'm showing people how to knead the bread. Are you interested? Or I don't know. I don't know what I'd say. But lately, I feel more like saying something. At the time, I didn't. This is very curious. And they were both so nice to me. Afterwards, they came up and they said, it's been so wonderful to meet you. We've been using your books for all these years. We think you're a wonderful person. And then I'm just sort of hearing parenthetically, although we're not really interested in anything you have to say, or that you might be able to show us anything. We just think you're a great person.

[10:03]

So it's interesting. And one of them even had a quote from one of my books, and he'd written it into this other book he had. And could you sign the quote that I've written from your book in this book? So it wasn't like because they didn't like me, but somehow they weren't actually interested in finding a way to do something that they didn't already know about. As a, you know, instructor, this is frustrating. And I encountered this actually a fair amount of the time. I was at a cooking class some years ago, and I often demonstrate how to use a knife. I'm doing this tomorrow. How I use it, and I try to say to people, I'm not telling you this because my way of cutting is better than your way of cutting.

[11:14]

I want to show you this in case it's interesting to you, and in case you want to find or explore other ways of using your hands than the one you own, the one, the ways of using your hands that you already know about. And if that's of interest to you, maybe you could try this, how I do this, and then I show. So I was at this class, and then I have a lot of extra knives. So then the class started cutting up things, and after a while, a woman came over to me and said, why don't you show that woman over there how you just did it? Because she's not doing it the way you showed us. So I went over. Not because I'm in a hurry to fix somebody's way of doing something. I feel real cautious about that, actually. And I said, you know, something kind of neutral. I was trying to say something kind of neutral, like,

[12:17]

I wonder if you're interested in seeing how I do this again, and if you'd like to try another way of cutting. And she said, what's so much better about your way of cutting than mine? And I thought, and I tried to explain to her, excuse me, I'm not trying to say my way of cutting is better. It's just, are you interested? If you're interested, here's something you might want to try out. If you're interested in exploring a way of doing something that's different than the way you've always done something, I can show you something. I could make some suggestions. And sometimes it's like that here, you know, at Kassahara. People will not come to Zazen, or they won't come to service, or they don't like, they don't want to bow.

[13:19]

And, you know, it's one thing or another. There's some, people have some rationale or understanding why it is that they don't want to do that. But it's not so complicated, you know. If you did it, you would be going someplace you haven't been before. You would be, you know, entering, going somewhere you haven't been, entering another way. And you would be going outside of your habitual way of thinking. You would be going outside of or beyond your habitual understanding. When we all chant here in the morning, you're actually together. If you're in a room full of people chanting, you cannot keep your own identity. Because suddenly your body is, you know, the sound, the sound just goes right through. The sound will touch everywhere inside of you. It will touch all of your organs. It will touch, you know, it will touch you completely.

[14:23]

The sound, the sound. And so you can't keep who you thought is you. You know, you can't keep your bodily structure with this sound going on. So if you want to go somewhere, if you're willing to seek the way, then you can go to this place. So basically, in some way, the way is the way where you relinquish control. You relinquish control over who you are and what's going on and what's going to happen and what you do. And what happens is, you know, bigger or different than if you decided ahead of time what would happen. And this is the way our life goes. Actually, we can't decide, we can't control things, but we try. And we try to make our life look like the way we want it to. So, you know, we have, you know, instead of seeking the way,

[15:26]

we're often trying to make our life appear acceptable. It's acceptable or approvable by others or by me. You know, and I, you know, and then we will tend to withhold our approval, you know, as a kind of motivation so that we'll finally shape up. Only, of course, we never do. And then we just hold out on approving of ourselves. So we end up being rather unhappy. But still, wouldn't that be better than seeking the way and going somewhere you haven't been and, you know, having things out of control? Well, anyway, we tend to think so. It's very mysterious, this business. So I'm sometimes reminded, you know, when I'm in a feisty mood, you know, I was, you know, like the last couple of days, I was thinking of the, there's an Austrian artist named Hundertwasser, Hundertwater. And he's kind of, you know, iconoclast. He got somehow this, you know, he won a contest or something.

[16:30]

Anyway, they let him build this low-cost housing in Vienna. Even though, you know, he's basically a painter. And he got to design this building. So the floors aren't level, you know, they have little mounds. And he says, you know, if you walk on level floors all the time, your feet will become dead. You know, they lose their awakeness. And then he says, you know, and then things, you know, curve sometimes in his rooms. The walls aren't straight. And then the windows are all different. He got 13 different windows. And then there's two little ones here and a big one here. Or there's the big one here and the two little ones here. Or the two little ones are on top, you know. So he just arranges these different windows in different ways. And then there's little tiles and designs around the windows. And it looks like something out of a fairyland. And so then he goes to architectural conventions and says, tells the architects, you are a bunch of fascists. You're making people live in straight lines.

[17:33]

So he's very, you know, kind of outspoken. You know, he doesn't just sit back and say, you know, okay, you can be an architect. I could appreciate that. No, so he'll, you know, he's this way. He's outspoken. I kind of, anyway, at one point for a short period of time, he was like a visiting professor at a university. You know, he's going to be visiting an art teacher. So the first day of class, he said, first thing he said is, some of you have some talent. And for those of you who have talent, there's nothing I can teach you. Some of you have no talent. Why don't you go home and get on with your life? Sometimes I feel this way, you know. If you're actually seeking the way, I don't have anything to tell you. And then if you're not seeking the way, maybe you could just go home. But instead, I do kind of think, well, maybe there's still the possibility that you might arouse way-seeking mind, you know.

[18:34]

So I sit around and I say, well, go ahead. Please arouse way-seeking mind. And actually, many of you who think, you know, if you're wondering whether or not you've aroused it, you know, many of you, without your knowing it, have aroused way-seeking mind, you know, because then you're, because many of you are ending up in places you weren't expecting to end up. You know, you're sitting in Zazen and you move or you're walking around Tassajar and you're suddenly getting mysteriously angry or, you know, sad or things aren't quite right. You feel some strangeness in your life and it's all unaccountable. And it's not coming out like according to the picture that you set out to, to, you know, what's the approved sense to? And you know, well, I was going to be calm and together and centered and balanced. And that's not what's happening. So you've entered the way. Oh, isn't that nice to know, you see? So anyway, so Mr. Hundertwasser, I forget his first name.

[19:42]

I guess he just goes by Hundertwasser. You know, he, after he mentioned this, then he said, so anyway, since I have nothing to teach you and the rest of you may be going home, why don't we do a project together? And so then he got out a pencil or a pen or something and he likes to spiral. So he started at one point in the room and he started drawing the line around the baseboard of the room. Then when it got to the radiator, it went around the radiator. And then when it got to the door, it went around the base of the door. And after a couple hours of this, he handed the brush to the next person. And they started having this marathon where the line continued day and night, 24 hours a day. And of course, within not so long, the administration heard about this. So after about 72 hours, the dean of the college was there and he knocks. And it just happened that the line was at the door. So the door was closed when the dean got there. And the dean is pounding on the door saying, you know, let me in.

[20:43]

And Hundertwasser yelled out, the rule of the line is at the door. Please wait. And they'd gotten up about halfway up this classroom. He said they have no sense of humor or understanding of art either, because if they'd let us finish, you know, they could charge admission and make a bunch of money for the college. But instead, they painted it over. It could have been, you know, the Hundertwasser Memorial Room. People would be coming from miles around to see this spiral that goes all the way up. You know, probably a room that's half as large as the Zendo. You know, this takes a long time too. And, you know, they were using different kinds of, you know, pencil pens, inks, you know, brushes. So there are a couple of pictures, even though the dean, you know, prohibited there being any pictures taken. He wanted to just quiet the whole thing and whitewash it over. Now you have an acceptable room. But Hundertwasser is more interested in the way. Well, I have to stop sometimes and remember what the heck am I talking about?

[21:55]

Where is this all going? Let's see, the line, where is it? All around here. And it does kind of get, you know, spirally, right? Anyway, I did want to tell you a couple of stories. Which are kind of in this genre, you know, and this is now switching over to cooking. Because you see, the same thing happens in cooking or, you know, anything we do. We think there's actually a way it should be done. And then we are trying to make it come out the way it's supposed to. And we have in our mind, or we think there exists someplace, the standard of how it's supposed to come out. Then we try to make it so it comes out the way it's supposed to. And then, you know, whether it's biscuits or your life, you know, we try to make it come out the way it's supposed to. And in Zen we say, instead of trying to make it come out the way it's supposed to, we say, handle the ingredients with sincerity.

[22:59]

In other words, take care of the ingredients. You know, look with your eyes, smell with your nose, you know, taste with your tongue, and experience what you're doing. And do that, sincerity means, you know, with some wholeness or fullness. Giving yourself to the process and see what happens. See what happens is different than trying to make it appear to be according to the acceptable standard. So we're, in practicing Zen, we're shifting our way of doing things over to do something with sincerity and see what happens. Find out what happens, find your way with how things go rather than try to make it come out the way it's supposed to. Try to make your life look the way you were going to, you thought your life was supposed to look, or make the biscuits come out the way, you know, and so forth. So one of my favorite stories, you know, is the,

[24:02]

a few years ago in the Wall Street Journal, it said, even canned corn stumps modern cooks. And the article said that the Pillsbury Corporation got so many calls from consumers, they had taken the directions off of their canned corn, but they got so many calls from consumers wondering what to do, that they put the directions back on. And the direction said, put corn in saucepan on heated burner. I guess the directions didn't even say, they sort of assumed that somebody knew how to open the can. I tell, I've told this to one woman, and I was chuckling and laughing like some of you are, and she said, but Ed, I'm like that. I forgot, she's an artist and her husband, who's an IRS agent, does all the cooking in their family, and she gets to do her art while he cooks. You know, some women arrange these things,

[25:04]

you know, they find men who cook, you know, and then they get to be artists or yoga teachers or whatever. And, and she said, but Ed, I'm like that. Do you, do you drain, strain the corn or not? You know, do you drain off that liquid that it comes in? Anyway, and then with it was this other article, which is in some ways even more disturbing, because it said, how much will people pay not to cook? And the answer was plenty. And it explained how, you know, if you, if you, if you make, you know, frozen foods or something, you can charge three to five or, you know, nine times as much for the same ingredients. So, you know, it's a much better business, you know, financially to be in. You know, farmers get very little,

[26:05]

anybody growing anything, that gets very little. But if you turn that same stuff into potato chips or whatever, you know, it's five, nine times as much you can charge. So you can make much more money, you know, being a manufacturer than a grower. But the article said that not only, you know, is this the case, but that at that time they estimated between 25 and 30 percent of American families never eat together. And eating is this, you know, can be, is certainly for some cultures, the heart of family life. And it's, you know, it's, I notice in these weeks when I am participating in a workshop with guests, and I'm very rarely at student meals, I start to feel like I'm not here at Tessahara because I don't see, you know, most of you who are living here, I hardly see you. Because one of the main places we see each other is meals.

[27:07]

Anyway, it's, you know, pretty ancient and the kind of communion that happens through meals. And 25 or 30 percent of families never eat together. And each family member has a TV in their own room. And so they don't even have to talk about which show to watch. And then the provider fills up the cupboard and the refrigerator. And, you know, with stuff that you can either microwave, ideally, it's things that you can repair during the station breaks. You know, you press the, at the half hour, you can put it in the microwave and press two minutes. And then, you know, before the next show starts, you have your dinner and you can take it. Anyway, that's a whole other subject. But the other story that I have appreciated over the years, you know, is when we were working on the Greens cookbook, Debra, that I helped Debra with her book.

[28:10]

And we had written all these things, cook the onions until they're translucent and season to taste with vinegar. We thought our book was pretty well written because I had edited her material. She had edited mine. We worked with an editor in Berkeley for a month. We went over the book word for word. You know, all the Parmesans had capital P's. You have to check on this thing. And certain places, it said four, you know, with the numeral and other places, it said F-O-U-R. And, you know, there's criteria for all these things. So we thought this was pretty good. But every place we said cook ends until they're translucent, there was this little pink press supply label sticking up beside it said, how long? And season to taste with vinegar. And it said, how much? And we thought, well, we were trying to have you cook according to your experience. Now, you know, are you going to watch the onions or are you going to watch the clock when you cook onions? But we went along with our editor and we said,

[29:15]

cook the onions until they're translucent about two to four minutes. You know, and we said, season to taste with vinegar beginning with half a teaspoon. So just to be helpful. But then we got to the pasta section and it said, cook the vegetables until they're as tender as you like. And the little nut said, how long? And how do we know? And that's where we threw up our hands. Like, if you don't know what you like, I don't think I can tell you. You are going to have to figure it out. You know, you're going to have to find out. And I don't, you know, you can start with a whole pot of vegetables and you can start cooking them. And then, you know, every 30 seconds or 10 seconds, you can take one out. You can take a bite and see where the point is, where you like it.

[30:16]

And then usually you need to overcook a few things and you say, oh, I don't like it so much now. It's cooked more. You know, so this is to learn by experience. You just, and it's, so we all have this capacity. It's not so complicated. But finding the way like this is different than, you know, how do I know? But, you know, where is the standard that I can apply? That is universal or is correct or the right way to do it. So we say, you know, so to enter the way,

[31:18]

you know, we also use the term leaving home. Because if you, in Buddhist day, you know, when somebody became a, joined the Buddhist Sangha, they were said to leave home. You leave the life that you grew up with and the identity you grew up with. You join the order. So it was called leaving home. So we still use this kind of expression. And, you know, Buddhism goes back to the Buddha leaving home and leaving his, you know, what kind of a parent was he? It was just like the guys these days, you know, left his wife and baby and went out on his own. And mom was a single mom. Buddha wasn't sending home any child support or, you know, but she did get to live in his old palace, you know, so I guess she was taken care of. The texts are not real clear on this.

[32:20]

But anyway, so we have this expression leaving home. So this again is, I think, rather interesting and useful. You know, where is home? And then we also say, don't set up a nest or a den in your own mind. And what usually what we use to set up a nest or den is our thinking and our ideas. And part of it is what I've been talking about tonight, standards of what is or, you know, what is the picture of how my life should live? What is the picture of, you know, what mind I should have? You know, that's the approvable mind. We want to have a mind, a body, a life and experience that can be approved, that we could approve. And of course, finally, you know, there's not much help for it. You know, you may have to leave home and find your way out amongst all these experiences which aren't the acceptable, approvable ones. So there are some qualities or characteristics

[33:28]

which will help you in doing this. One is called investigation. When you find yourself away from home or you're willing to go away from home, you investigate. Investigate is, you know, to be finding out, to find your way, to be exploring, to be trying something out. It's also investigation is, you know, in a simple sense, it's finding out what is sweet, what is sour, what is salty, what is bitter. There's this kind of investigation. There's also the investigation of what is satisfying, what is unsatisfying, what actually works in my life, what doesn't. You know, so one of the things, for instance, about anger is at some point, you know, we notice it's not working. You know, mostly we get mad at ourself or somebody else and, you know, implicitly in that is, if you behave that way, I'm going to get mad at you.

[34:30]

And we do that to ourself as though our own body and mind was listening, you know. Oh, you're going to get mad at me if I behave like that. Oh, I'll be sure never to do that again. And the other people that we get mad at, they're just as bad, you know. It's not like they say, oh, if you're going to get mad, I'll never do that again. They sort of, they might sort of think, well, that's pretty heavy. That's pretty weird. But I guess maybe I'll try not to do that again. But, you know, you forget after a day or two or three or whatever or an hour or a minute and you do the same thing and the person gets mad again. But so basically, you know, anger is not very effective. That way, you know, aside from whatever pleasure you may get out of being angry for a while. So that's one of the things you can investigate is what works and what doesn't. You know, that's fine in your way. And then you try to be kind of honest. Well, it doesn't work. Maybe I better see if I could find some other way. And so there are various things to be investigating.

[35:32]

Another word that's very similar to investigate, which is very useful and interesting, is interesting. You know, to take an interest in something. And your life is very different if you take an interest in it. Just as, you know, if somebody takes an interest in you, you start, you know, if somebody takes interest in me, I start to respond. Oh, how have you been? Oh, and how's Patty? And how's your new house? And then pretty soon I start talking. And I kind of come out when somebody's taking interest in me. Otherwise, I might just sort of sit there and nobody's interested in me. But this is also true, you know, intra, you know, inside. Are you taking an interest in what you feel? Are you taking an interest in what you think? Or do you say, oh, not supposed to think, not supposed to feel. Try to make my life real quiet. Try to make it peaceful around here. Not going to listen to any of this stuff. Not going to acknowledge any feelings.

[36:36]

Wouldn't want to be caught thinking. So to take an interest, you know, you might actually, you actually find out something. And then also you can find out, like, actually what you're interested in. This is also like finding your way. And it's leaving home and it's leaving the nest or den you've set up for how to have a life that, you know, is an acceptable life. You leave, you go out and you start to have experiences and things come up and then you start to find, if you take an interest in it, more information comes. You know, so usually when people, often when people come to have over the years come to me, for instance, as a teacher, you know, one of the big questions is, well, what do I do about anger? And the implication of the question is, could you please tell me some way to get rid of anger so I don't have to ever experience it again in my life?

[37:37]

And can you tell me how to let go of it without ever having to actually touch it? Anyway, that, it's not going to work, you know. So it's much better actually to take an interest. What does anger actually feel like in your body? Where is it? What does it feel like in your arms, in your knees, in your stomach, in your chest? You know, what's the flavor of anger? What is it, you know, what does it have to say? What is it about? What's going on? And if you're interested in it, you take an interest in it. If you investigate it, you find out a great deal. Which is different than organizing your life and who you're with and what you do. So anger never comes up. This is, you can set up, this is setting up a nest or a den where you try to be immune from anything that might be kind of afflictive.

[38:47]

So again, many, sometimes people, when people become students here, we think, oh, I'm really not such a good student. All these things are happening to me. But actually all these things are happening is a sign you've left home, you're out of the nest or den in the wilderness, finding your way. So it's quite good actually. So investigation, interest, these are the factors that go along with. There's one other factor that I appreciate a lot, which is called trust or confidence. In order to leave your home or go out of your nest or den into this world that you don't control and where things aren't coming out according to your idea of how they're supposed to come out, if only you knew the right recipe to follow so they'd come out the way they were supposed to and you get out there and things aren't that way.

[39:51]

The other factor is called trust or confidence. Trust or confidence is willing to dive into that circumstance, investigate it and take an interest in it. And you have that much trust or confidence in your capacity to find your way that you will dive in or go out from your nest or den, encounter all the strangenesses and flavors and tastes of your life and find your way with some interest and investigation. I mentioned the other night, some of you were here about hands. I find hands very interesting. And I mentioned that spiritual people who are interested in spiritual practice

[40:54]

often in a certain sense cut off their hands. And I only discovered recently that I cut off my hands. I noticed that when I was sitting in Zazen, my awareness only went down to my wrists. Sitting here like this and I tried to find my hands and they weren't there. And this is because spiritual people want to be real careful not to do harm. So just in case, rather than hurting somebody, just don't have hands. It was interesting, someone asked the other night, you know, well, what about the migrant workers who are doing something for them or helping people out in the world? It has something to do with having hands. And, you know, Zen practice, at least initially, emphasizes the kind of not being attached to things. And, you know, a thought comes up and you watch your thoughts and you let go of your thoughts and emotions come up and you watch them and you let go of them

[41:54]

and you follow the schedule and do the next thing. But at some point we should actually find our hands. You know, this is also a part of Zen practice. Find our hands or, you know, what is our heart, what's in our heart and know our, you know, and find our passion. And the place we want to express that in our life. And so that's partly about, to find your passion is partly about giving yourself permission. You know, permission to find your way, permission to make mistakes, permission to feel your way along, permission to be in situations and circumstances which are not the, you know, real acceptable high quality experiences that you were meant to be producing. You know, that would get you the proper certification

[42:55]

or a performance award. So partly I know at the same time, you know, in some ways that I've cut off my hands, I've also over the years found my hands at various times. And one of the things that interests me is the way that, you know, if you want to find your way, or if you're seeking the way, you can ask your hands to do it for you. You know, to find the way or to seek the way is not just, not something you do with your head. So you let your hands find things that they enjoy doing. And your hands know much better how to be hands than your thinking mind. With our thinking mind, we try to figure out and tell our hands and explain to our hands what to do. But actually, you know, we don't need to do that. Our hands know how to be hands better than my thinking mind.

[43:57]

So I try to say to people when I show how I cut with vegetables that it's what your hands can find out when you give your hands a chance to be hands. And when you let your hands find out what they love to do, hands actually love to do things. That's what hands are, you know, for, right? They love to do things. They love to knead bread. And I didn't realize how much hands loved to do something until I started kneading bread. You know, hands love to play musical instruments and saw wood and press, press, cheeks and bodies. Hands love to touch things. And this isn't about, you know, your mind. This is just hands being, finding their way and doing what they love. And actually, you know, it's...

[45:04]

And actually, the hands are always ready. The hands love to do things. And, you know, it's interesting if you, after you work, and especially if you, I think it's true all the time, but especially if you do something like kneading bread. And if you sit down for a minute and just feel your hands, they are so alive. And hands love to be alive. So it's not the hands that don't want to do something. It's actually our thinking. You know, it's some way that we stay at home and we stay in our nest and then, and thinking will keep us in our nest. And then I don't feel like that. I'm tired today or something. Because our hands are so happy doing something. And they will feel, they feel all tingly and energized after you've done work.

[46:15]

And even if there's some fatigue in your hands after work, they, it's a fatigue that feels in your, to your hands, you know, happy. So the kind of, you know, happiness that your hands feel, you know, it's different than what we usually think of how to have happiness. Because we have the idea, oh, I could accomplish something and get something done and that would make me happy. But, you know, maybe what you accomplish or get done makes you happy. Maybe it doesn't. If it makes you happy, it's not for long. But the kind of happiness that comes from using your hands and allowing your hands to be hands and to find their own way and not being too bossy with them and telling them all the time, do this, don't do that,

[47:20]

do this, no, not that. Your hands will be very happy. And they will enjoy, you know, being here. So I think of this, you know, as liberating your hands and letting your hands find the way. And then similarly, you can liberate your breath and let your breath find the way. You know, lots of times we think, we say, oh, my breath is so shallow. My breath isn't very deep. And then pretty soon, you know, or my breath isn't very calm. I think I'll make it calm. So we tend to have a better idea than our breath, you know, how it should be breathing. How do we get this idea? You know, that I know how my breath should be. It should be calm. I want it to be calm. I know what kind of breath I like, actually. But we practice in meditation, you know, letting,

[48:25]

you know, seeing if our mind can be supple enough and soft enough and flexible enough to be with the breath and be willing to be with the breath however it is. And the softer and more flexible our mind is, the more our breath relaxes because nobody's telling it how to be anymore. So if you want to have, you know, some quiet or some peace or some liberation, you know, you can stop telling your breath what it should be like because after, you know, pretty quickly you tell your breath, be more calm, be longer, be deeper. Your breath will go, who's talking? You're making me nervous. I can hardly breathe. And people say, yeah, when I get distracted and I'm not following my breath, it's real easy to breathe. Well, that just goes to show when your awareness comes to something, you want to control it. You want to make it according to some idea.

[49:27]

So see if you can just be with your breath and let it be the way it is. And it will find, you know, very quickly, it will find out how to be breath. And it will become very relaxed because nobody's busy killing it and fixing it all the time and making it wrong. If you're always, you know, this is what fixing something is, it's making yourself wrong. So I'm encouraging you tonight to see, to find the way, to let your hands find your way, let your breath find the way. And to when you encounter experiences, you know, on the way, which is outside your nest or den of what you wanted for some acceptable result,

[50:31]

you know, that you investigate and explore and take an interest in it. And then even though it doesn't come out the way you thought, you know, if you've handled the ingredients with sincerity and you've, you know, practiced this way, the results will be okay. Well, thank you very much. How late is it getting? Do you want to have questions or is it time for bed? If you have a question, I'll tell you. Oh, it's late enough that we can go home. If you see me on the street, you could always cost me. If you, if you have questions or comments,

[51:32]

pass them over to me in writing. Anyway, some of you, if you have questions and comments or comments about my talk, and some of you, since I'm doing this workshop, you know, we'll have plenty of opportunity to talk. But as of others, if you have questions or comments or interests, you know, you can, if you have a chance, I welcome, you know, hearing about these things because I have another couple of talks to do. So, you know, I have to, you know, get some response from this one and then I'll have more to talk about for the next one. This is the way it works. Well, thank you very much. And I appreciate your being here. It's been a delightful evening. Sometimes I think better just shut my mouth and call it a night. You know, we say, wash your ears in the sound of the Tussock Creek. Don't let my words deceive you. We have a chant to do now.

[52:35]

You can let the sound, you know, reverberate through your being. All right, thanks.

[52:40]

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