Welcome again. It's good to be here. We're all here, wherever here is, wherever you are. So, last week, we talked about the chapter in Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind, that's called Mistakes in Practice. And the biggest mistake, as Suzuki Roshi said, and often says, is to be greedy about our practice. You know, to have some, what he calls a gaining idea. Gaining, trying to get something out of it. So that what is actually happening as we sit or we go about the day doesn't seem to count as much as some idea we have about what we're going to get out of it some later day or some other time. So he also talks about the warning signs or the mistakes that we make in our practice and says that they're invaluable for helping us. They're signals that allow others to point out to us the things we're doing that maybe we can't see for ourselves. And then that way we can guide ourselves back onto the path with the kind assistance of our friends, our Dharma friends.

[01:18]

I talked last week about the virtues of both offering and inviting a critique of our practice, as opposed to giving and receiving feedback or criticism, which oftentimes I think doesn't go very well, not in my experience, not either receiving or giving feedback to others. So through this kind of sincere openness to receiving support from others, we can learn to turn away from any tinge of self-centered ambition, gaining ideas, toward a life of boundless devotion to the well-being of others, which of course includes ourselves. So Roshi says that whether we find joy in our practice or not doesn't matter. What matters is our commitment. to the Buddhist teaching by continuing this simple practice, you know, by showing up. So in the beginning of the next talk entitled Limiting Your Activity, Suzuki Rishi says that usually when someone believes in a particular religion, their attitude becomes more and more a sharp angle pointing away from themselves.

[02:27]

And he says, in our way, the point of the angle is always towards ourselves. Kind of interesting point he's making here. He then cites a koan by the 9th century Chinese Zen master Zhou Shu, Zhu Xin. In Chinese, it's Zhao Zhou, Tong Shen, who is a famous descendant of Master Matsu, of what would be known in later centuries as Rinzai, Zen lineage. Zhou Shu is remembered for his wit, as well as for his sense of humor. Suzuki Rishi is using a saying of Joshu's to illustrate the point that Zen practice should not have a particular object or goal. It's an object, that's meditation, is one way we describe the kind of meditation we do. Not taking any particular object as the focus of our time sitting. And then he cites Joshu who says, a clay Buddha cannot cross water, a bronze Buddha cannot get through a furnace,

[03:30]

and a wooden Buddha cannot get through fire. A clay Buddha cannot cross water, a bronze Buddha cannot get through a furnace, and a wooden Buddha cannot get through fire. So some particular goal or some external focus may help us for a little while, but eventually there comes a time after reaching the goal that we aren't really so sure what to do next. Maybe you've had that experience yourselves. So I have an example from this week. I've been really learning to enjoy, and I do enjoy, the Tour de France, which in past years, only anything I ever saw about it was a bunch of bicycles zooming by. I thought, well, that's not that interesting. But the way it's photographed these days, there are drones that are flying. following on top of the peloton and the leaders. And there's all this commentary and there's all these fascinating strategies that the different teams are, are taking in order to get their guy who has the best shot at winning into the front.

[04:32]

And then eventually there's this kind of breakaway at the end where somebody, you know, wins, but you're not really sure who it's going to be. So anyway, this is my first time really, really enjoying bicycle racing. And partly because I'm being schooled by my partner who has a much deeper understanding of all of this and has for many, many years been a real fan of both racing herself and also watching other people race. So one of the exciting finishes that I watched a few days ago took place on the fifth, what's called the fifth stage. So each day of a 21-day tour... The Tour de France is 21 days of riding your bicycle with this other group of people, you know, over 100, I think, and going up mountains and down mountains and all around different turns in the road. And then you take another stage, the next day is another stage. And so 21 days altogether, and each one of those represents a stage.

[05:34]

So on the fifth stage, which was day five, there's an older rider. who's about 39, which is quite old for a bicycle rider, a racer, whose name is Mark Cavendish. And he's pretty well known in biking circles because he was very close to breaking the record of how many stages a single rider had won over the course of their life, over the course of their cycling career. So Mark Cavendish was one away from breaking the record. which takes many, many years to accomplish, as you can well imagine, winning races with 100 other riders who are going terribly fast is not so easy. And he'd done so 34 times. But someone else had done it more. No, he'd done so 30, yeah, 34 times. But someone else had done it that much. So in order for him to be the record holder, he had to get one more stage win. And apparently last year he was trying to do that and he fell and broke his collarbone and was terribly disappointed and it looked like

[06:39]

He wasn't going to make it. And this year, nobody was really sure and kind of wondering, getting kind of old and all of that. So anyway, we got to watch this race. And it was amazing. I mean, the way he went about, if you've watched it, you know, and if you didn't, you can look it up on YouTube, I think. But the way he went about winning the race was actually quite extraordinary. I mean, a real skill, an amazing skill, physical skill and endurance skill and strength skill. And so on. So anyway, he did get his stage. He won the stage and therefore is now the new record holder. And then he was asked how he felt about beating the record. And surprisingly, he looked a little sad. And then he replied that it reminded him of when he was a kid. And he'd been doing this, all these levels of Nintendo, I think it was, where you, you know, there were so many different levels or stages of Nintendo. And he'd mastered all of them, and he got into the final stage, and then he finished, and then he thought, now what?

[07:44]

Now who am I that my goal has been met? So I was really touched by that. I thought, well, that's a real Zen question. I think that's similar to what some of us are noticing about our so-called retirement here at Enso Village together. Lovely people who've had busy lives and raised families and lived various... places in the world, and so on. And it's sort of like, okay, now we're here, and now what? You know, now what? So, you know, I am no longer in a position of any kind in this mandala of the retirement community, you know, just this person. As I've been saying for many years, but now it's more true than I feel it's been in a long time. Just this person, without any kind of context or any kind of association of to other positions or other relationships. There's no mandala. People live here, and we're all pretty much on a horizontal level in terms of one another.

[08:48]

So it's not a bad feeling, you know, what's next. It's not a bad feeling at all, but it does seem to be what Suzuki Roshi is pointing to as a pitfall of Zen practice. You know, you reach some goal, and then it's like, okay, now what? You know, now what? So thankfully, he then says that the way to practice without having any goal is by limiting what we do or by being concentrated on whatever we are doing in this moment. So limiting ourselves to what we can do in the present moment, which is the only moment, is how we express our Buddha nature. So he uses zazen practice as a good example of both limiting our activity and also expressing fully. By concentrating on that activity, what's happening in the present, we express ourselves fully. Just keeping the right posture and just being concentrated on sitting is how we express the universal nature, the Buddha nature. How we express just this is it, the primary teaching of our school.

[09:55]

I was recently asked to help someone here with their meditation posture. I said, okay, I'm happy to do that. So we went to the Zendo. And after adjusting their posture quite a bit, actually, given, as they admitted, they had a lifetime habit of slouching forward, of rolling their shoulders and dropping their head down. So eventually, I wondered, I didn't know for sure, if the person would be able to actually straighten their spine and drop their shoulders back and put their head up straight and so on, which they could. They could do that, which was kind of great. You know, they'd been studying Tai Chi for many years and had the idea of posture, but hadn't really settled into that as their own, you know, making it their own. So after sitting for a while with this upright posture, I asked the person as they went back into, we started just talking, chatting, they kind of slumped back over.

[10:55]

And I said, well, how does that feel? Resuming your familiar slouch. And the person said, it doesn't feel good. It doesn't feel good. So for me and for the person, this very possibility of straightening the spine, of balancing the head, and of relaxing the shoulders seemed like a genuine aspiration that would fill the requirements of the practice that Suzuki Roshi has laid out for us here in this talk. Both energetic and present within every moment. good, healthy posture that actually feels good, you know, all day long. So the other example of posture includes bowing and chanting and walking around and just being in a casual relationship with your activities of the day. So at all times through the day, we are moving along with and as a body that, like a good dog, once it's taken off a leash, really enjoys the freedom that comes when we have released whatever is holding us back.

[12:02]

It's a great deal of joy. So Suzuki Roshi tells us that the Japanese word for one-act samadhi, one-act concentration, is ichigyo zanmai. Ichigyo zanmai. Ichi means one, and gyo is practice, and zanmai is samadhi, or concentration. So one practice, concentration, you know, like, for example, posture, or just this is it, coming back into the present with some enthusiasm. So he then talks about how many of his students practice other religions, which he tells them is just fine. That's not a problem. And that's because our practice has nothing to do with some particular religious belief. He then cites the opening statement about how often those who believe in a particular religion are pointed more and more at a sharp angle away from themselves. Perhaps towards the heavens or towards the writings that teach about the heavens and so on.

[13:07]

Things that we're all familiar with, having been raised in cultures that have strong religious traditions. So I would say that... Sharp pointing away also holds for our beliefs in our cultural values, in our political values, in our ethical values. In fact, it seems to apply to anything that we do that we're holding onto, that we are grasping. And in doing so, we leave no room for any other point of view to appear. We just don't listen. So whether we agree with others or not, I think it is increasingly important that we try to understand what they're talking about. Important to listen to what is happening in our world of such frequent and radical change. Roshi says that our way is always pointing at ourselves, not away from ourselves. And so do we know what our own ethical, cultural, and political values are? Are we willing to be questioned? Are we able to be curious?

[14:08]

That's not so easy. Not for me. So Roshi goes on to say that Joshu's statement about the different kinds of Buddhas is also for the Buddhists who direct themselves toward one and only one way. You know, my Buddha, right or wrong. So it's really been interesting, as I've been mentioning, that a number of people living here in Enso Village identify with a particular version of Buddha. There's the Vipassana Buddhas, and there's the Zen Buddhas. There's the Tibetan and the Vietnamese Buddhas. There's Rinzai and Soto Zen Buddhas, and there's a Shingon Buddha. There's also the Quakers and the Catholics, the Protestants, the Jews. And lastly, there are the unaffiliates who are really curious about the rest of us, and as we are about each other. So the reassuring part of Roshi's talk came at the end when he says that we don't need to worry about any of this. There is no one kind of Buddha or religion that will serve our purposes completely.

[15:09]

Someday you will have to throw it away, or at least you'll have to ignore it. And fortunately, that is not our way. Whichever way we go, we are the boss. Because no matter what situation we are in, we cannot neglect the true Buddha. And that's because we ourselves are the true Buddha. And it's only that Buddha that can help us completely. So that's the talk. It's a fairly short one. It's only like a page and a half. So I thought I'd tell you a little bit about Master Joshu, whose koan appears in this lecture. Joshu was one of the major figures in the Tang Dynasty, which, as I've said before, has been known or called the Golden Age of Zen. A lot of the big names in Zen are said to have been practicing and teaching during the Tang Dynasty. So there's a lot to say about that, about the Tang Dynasty and how those... mythic teachers were created, most likely as retroactive attributions from the Song Dynasty, which came after the Tang.

[16:16]

You know, the Song Dynasty had these very bright Buddhist scholars and teachers, and their elevation of their own way or their own traditions, their own lineages, had to do with making their founders really big. So Dongshan is really big. He's, you know, he's one of those guys. And Joshu is another big guy and Matsu is another big guy. So those Tang Dynasty names are very big and they were made very big through a kind of a PR project that went on during the centuries that followed. And we're still doing that, right? There's some saying that the further back in history you go with these figures, these large figures of history, the Genghis Khans and the Napoleons and so on, the taller they get and the bigger they get. So that's just a thing that humans do to keep an eye on that. So anyway, but even so, Zhou Xu was considered to be one of the great ones, one of the major Zen teachers of the Tang dynasty. So Joshu is jiaojo in Japanese, maybe more familiar to you.

[17:22]

As I mentioned, was known for both his creativity and for his good humor. He was born in 778, and he died in 897. And stories about Joshu appear in both the Blue Cliff Record and the Gateless Gate collection of koans. Now, he is best known for the first koan in the Gateless Gate, the Mumongkan. I'm sure this one's familiar to you. A monk asked, Zhao Zhou, Joshu, does a dog have Buddha nature? Joshu says, Wu, or no, or Mu. Basically, no. So here are some thoughts that I shared during a talk down at Stanford a few years back to the Buddha Studies Department, which was quite enjoyable, about this koan as a good example of a teaching about the ultimate truth. The same truth that we hear repeatedly in the Heart Sutra. Using the same familiar response that Joshu gave to the young monk.

[18:23]

No. No. No eyes. No ears. No nose. No tongue. No body. No mind. And so on. No Buddha. So this no that these teachings are confronting us with is the no of the ultimate truth. Joshu isn't telling the monk that the dog doesn't have Buddha nature. He's telling him that his question is wrong. You know, dogs and people and trees and stars and planets don't have Buddha nature. They are Buddha nature. That is Buddha nature. What this koan is basically about is the monk's own doubts about himself, whether or not he or she or they has an enlightened nature. And this is the very question the Dogen was carrying on his own voyage to China. You know, why do we practice if we already have Buddha nature? Why do we go to all this trouble? That was the question that troubled Dogen. So technically, the correct answer to this question, according to Buddha sutras, is yes, that all beings have Buddha nature.

[19:29]

So this is the monk knew. The monk who asked the question of Joshu already knew that, and so did Joshu. So then how come Joshu said no? Why did he say no? So that's the real koan, and it's the one that none of us can very easily escape from. You know, excuse me, but that's not the right answer. You know, I read the books. I know what the answer is. Why are you telling me something different? You know, why are you telling me no? And who are you? Anyway, you know, we start to question whoever it is that's challenged us. We don't like it so much to be challenged with things we're pretty sure are correct. So, you know, this is kind of familiar when someone... For example, a Buddhist teacher who we hope is simply going to give us a nice affirmation and a little pat on the head, instead puts up a barrier for us to try to climb over, one that's higher than ones that we already know how to jump over. So this kind of unattainable barrier, much too high, kind of blue cliff is really referring to the blue cliff of trying to understand things which are not clear.

[20:39]

and are very hard to make clear by our own usual way of thinking. So it's an unattainable barrier, and it's also an unavoidable one. Blue cliff, it's right there in your face. You can't go any further until you figure out how to climb the blue cliff, if we even care. But if we don't care, well, that's also a koan. Not caring is itself a koan. So what the teacher is doing is basically blocking the monk from using... His usual tricks, our usual tricks, you know, like intellectualizing or emotionalizing or being willful, you know, being stubborn in order to meet the obstacles in our lives, all of which reek of a kind of selfishness, either as a conceit, like I know, or as a self-effacement. Well, I don't know. I don't know how I would know, you know, one or the other side of this dualistic way of meeting the world. So instead, the monk finds himself with no escape. There's no easy way out, or so it seems.

[21:40]

You know, just no. That's a blue cliff. No. None of us like that much. So Zen in itself can be seen as a radical disentanglement from words and concepts. No. No can be seen as a foundation of Zen logic, as well as a basic Zen exercise, such as the one that Joshu is offering in this koan. So the basic principle is that no human conception, nothing that we can think of, can grasp reality as it truly is. I mean, that seems kind of obvious, but I think we forget that our usual way of thinking cannot grasp reality as it truly is. Any direction you point, your thinking cannot grasp what it is that you're seeing. It's just beyond comprehension. Inconceivable. Reality is inconceivable. So this Zen exercise allows us the possibility of entering past the veil of illusions into a realization of the truth of that logic.

[22:47]

The truth of that logic is no. No eyes, no ears, no nose, no duck, no books, no lamp, no flowers, no rug, no foo. So, you know, what's a girl to do? So there really is nothing that is holding us hostage except the mind's attachment, our mind's attachment to its own thoughts, its own opinions, and its own projections. So Zen is nothing more than the realization of our own mind's innate freedom. Freedom. We are free, already free. No, we're not. Oh, yes, we are. No. Yes. Back and forth. So once again, no is not the answer to whether or not the poor dog has Buddha nature, but rather it's a technique to stop us from asking dualistic questions in the first place. Questions like yes or no. Is it yes or no? Does it or doesn't it? Is it right? Is this the right way or is this the wrong way? These are all dualistic propositions in which we're very well trained to deal with.

[23:55]

in our lives, you know, try to deal with in our lives. So if we are at times successful in stopping or sufficiently slowing down our conscious mind, our discursive thinking, then all of those views and opinions and questions about reality are temporarily suspended. You know, there's quiet. There's kind of a quiet that can occur. I think you've all felt that quiet that happens now and then, a kind of gap. We were just talking about that at lunch today. There's a lovely older woman that I've become very fond of who's, you know, she's well into her 90s and she's just, as they say, sharp as a tack. And at the same time, as with all of us around the table, we get talking about something and then we can't remember what else we were about to say. It's like, what was I about to say? What was I going to say? So we do try to help each other keep track as best we can of where we were headed because it's interesting. She's very interesting. So we were saying how much those spaces are not unpleasant. When you can't really remember the next thing you were going to say, there's a kind of vastness that appears, this kind of gap.

[25:00]

And if you're bothered by that, if you go, oh, God, no, I can't remember what I was going to say, you kind of feel like there's something wrong with you. There may be, but it's the usual wrong of aging. It's kind of the normal thing that happens as we get older. But if you can see that there's nothing painful about it, it's just an opening that appears. What was I going to say? I don't know. It's really gone. It's really gone. And what's there instead is just this openness, this vastness. Like the holes in Swiss cheese. Nothing bad there. There's just openings. So at such a time, it's possible to see how our incessant story-making, or what's called our monkey mind chatter, has been blocking our view of reality, as when clouds are blocking our view of the moon, the classic Zen image for how discursive thinking blocks the light of awareness, of awakening. So the clouds represent the veil of our subjective ideas and our imaginings about the world, you know, I think it's this, I think it's that, which are blinding us.

[26:11]

to the objective causal and karmic relationships that are spinning all around and creating the world as we see it. Such as how, for example, hatred leads to hatred and kindness leads to kindness. More to the point of why we care. To clear away the clouds for a time with an unblinking gaze at the moon shining on the mountains is the true purpose of our meditation practice. So there's a very wonderful poem called Snow by Dogen Zenji, about such a moment of mental clarity that he's sharing with us when he had such a moment. I'm very touched by these poems that are passed down through the centuries of an experience that we're all being invited to enter. You know, this is the same experience that we are being trained to value, to notice, to cultivate, and so on. So here's Dogen's moment of clarity. All my life, false and real. False and real.

[27:13]

Right and wrong. Tangled. All my life, false and real. Right and wrong. Tangled. Playing with the moon. Ridiculing the wind. Listening to the birds. Many years wasted seeing the mountains covered with snow. This winter I suddenly realized snow makes the mountain. All my life, false and real, right and wrong, tangled. Playing with the moon, awakening. Ridiculing the wind, the teachings of others. Listening to the birds. Many years wasted seeing the mountains covered with snow. Seeing the world as though it's something that's blocking my view. Mountains covered with snow. Why can't I see reality as it truly is? He was... He was restless and he was unhappy and he was seeking some vision or some truth or some massive insight that would free him once and for all.

[28:18]

And then that winter, this winter, I suddenly realized snow makes the mountain. It's the relative truth. Form is emptiness. Emptiness is form. It's the relative truth that's making up what we see. And this is itself the ultimate truth. This is the host within the host that I've been talking about and looking at Dongshan's five ranks, looking at the ten oxygen pictures and so on and so forth. When we finally integrate this relative, our dualistic thinking with the vastness. And so the dualistic thinking is still there, but it's in the context of this greatness. It's like it's... It's much more amusing. It's much more entertaining than it is when you just focused on dualism, on right or wrong. Give it to me. Give it to me. Give me the answer. I want to know the answer. I want to get the prize. I want to win the race, and so on and so forth. Gaining ideas. Snow makes the mountain.

[29:21]

It's not a gaining idea. There's nothing missing. So once the mind is stopped, even temporarily, we may be able to see how stories, the snow covering the mountain, or our small mind, as Suzuki Roshi calls it, and our big mind, the big mountain of the universe itself, are truly interfused as one whole being, one whole Buddha nature. The context and the content are together, and how it has never been otherwise. Does Joshu's dog have Buddha nature or not? Answer? No. Mu does not have. This koan about the dog is considered to be a key to an experience of nirvana, to that side of reality characterized as having no characteristics, no sides either, for that matter. And though this has been called the realization of the ultimate truth, there's this caution down, this caution flag down on the field. The danger being that the student is splitting nirvana and samsara into two.

[30:25]

Nirvana's over here. Gaining idea, I want that one. And samsara, the way we live, our tortured lives are over here. And this is the danger of leaning into the ultimate truth or wishing for the ultimate truth. So mistaking nirvana for a place where one can live outside of the dualistic regulations that accompany dualistic notions of right and wrong led to very many regrettable consequences throughout the history of Buddhism. you know, right up to the present day. Therefore, once a student has given no some serious attention, it is strongly recommended by both schools of Zen, Soto Zen, Rinzai Zen, to follow up this no koan with a deeper look at the teachings of causality, such as the Four Noble Truths. Suffering is caused by ignorance and desire, and the cessation of suffering is caused by the Noble Eightfold Path. you know, how you live your life.

[31:27]

So how we live our life is what Suzuki Roshi is talking about in each chapter of his book, of Zen Mind Beginner's Mind, returning us again and again to an emphasis on the second of the two truths, the relative or the conventional truth, you know, the snow on the mountain, as a corrective for a mistaken view of the ultimate nature of reality. which is very much in keeping with something that Nagarjuna said many centuries before the Tang Dynasty, in the second century, in India. Nagarjuna said, liberation is not some ultimate reality existing beyond the phenomenal conditioned world, beyond the veil of conventional truth. Emptiness is the ultimate truth of reality and of liberation. Nirvana, too, is empty. of its own existence. This was a big shock. This was a big shock back in the second century. It took a long time for this shockwave to arrive in China and Japan and now California.

[32:37]

It's like, what? Liberation is not some ultimate reality existing beyond the phenomenal conditioned world, beyond the veil of conventional truth. emptiness is the ultimate truth of reality and of liberation nirvana too is simply is empty nirvana too is empty of its own existence so that's joshua that's joshua's mu and something else that you might be interested in following up on is the corrective for joshua's mu is the second koan in the gateless gate collection of koan which is baijang or yakujo and the fox so maybe you all know that story about uh the zen master who uh is giving a lecture his name is yakujo and in the back of the room there's this quiet presence this person sitting there listening and to all of his lectures and then at one point the person comes forward and says well i'm actually uh yakujo from the past it's kind of like a ghost he said

[33:43]

I used to be the abbot of this temple, and at one time a monk asked me if a man of the way is subject to cause and effect or not. And I said, no. So that sounds good. However, as a result of saying that, that old Yakujo was reincarnated for 500 lifetimes as a fox. And a fox is the symbol or the metaphor for karma. You know, fox drool. is karma, you got some fox drool hanging off your lips, is you're kind of caught up in your karma and your old habits. So the old Kyakujo asks the new Kyakujo, the new abbot, please help me. Can you give me an answer that would free me from my fox body? And the new Kyakujo says, a person of the way does not ignore cause and effect, is not ignorant of cause and effect.

[34:43]

And with that, the old Yakujo was able to actually die, to be freed from the fox reincarnations. And he instructed the new Yakujo to find this fox and to bury the body and to have a ritual, you know, a formal ritual of Buddhist burial and so on. So these two are complements and they're offered that way in the way of studying koans. You start with the emptiness koan. No. No. Dog at Buddha nature. No. And then after that, you need this corrective. Does a person of the way subject to cause and effect or not? No. Wrong answer. They don't ignore cause and effect. They're not ignorant of cause and effect. They understand how things work, and they have an eye to how things work, and they work with things, not against them. These two sides are together. So you might, if you get a chance, to look at those two koans in the Mumang Khan. the gateless gate. There's some lovely kind of commentary by different teachers about those two koans, and I think you might find it very helpful, as I certainly did.

[35:52]

So anything you all would like to bring up would be very good, and I would like to go on the gallery. Karina, can you put me on the gallery? Yeah, so we can just simply talk together. Please don't hesitate to express yourselves any way you like. Thank you, Takawan. Happy Sunday. As always, it's great to be with all of you. I was reading a writing, I believe, of Uchiyama Roshis.

[36:55]

He was speaking on Shikantaza. And I'm trying to find the right... Oh, right here, I found it. So he was speaking of Shin, when we think of mind, how we often think of the psychological mind, but when we speak of mind in Shikantaza, it's this all-pervading mind, right? And there was a passage where he was speaking of how all too often we live our life in fabrications and that we believe that there was a world existing that we were born into and then we die and the world continues. Speaking of how that's really an inverted view of what our actual experience of reality is. And in speaking of this, he writes,

[37:57]

When we look at a cup that is set down between two of us, we have the feeling that we are looking at the same cup. Though actually, that is not so. You look at the cup with your vision and from a certain angle. Moreover, you see it in the rays of light and shadows that come from your side of the room. This applies equally to me as well. And here's what was intriguing to me. In a very rough sense... we proceed to separate the reality of the situation by entertaining the idea that we both see the same cup. This is what I mean by the fabrication of ideas. Good example. It was a wonderful example. And initially, to me, I felt as though that in itself was creating a separation, right? As if there is... My reality, oh, and I just remembered there was a... Oh, here, to conclude, to express this as precisely as possible, as I am born, I simultaneously give birth to the world I experience.

[39:07]

I live out my life along with that world, and at my death, the world I experience also dies. Which, I can't think of anything that would be more... true if we really sit to understand our experience itself. And in conceptualizing this, as I would initially do, I felt as though that was creating a separation. So in the sense, if we're speaking of waves and the ocean, each wave now has its own ocean. And for us not to misunderstand as though it's all part of the same ocean. Well, from my understanding, or as far as I would understand, the issue comes when we think that a wave could have any notion of what the ocean is. How could we ever know? And ultimately, where is the ocean?

[40:11]

Well, is that your question? Where is the ocean? My question is, how would you see the ocean or the waves? Yama is speaking of how we, from my understanding, the cup is what is bringing us together. In some way, something is being shared. And I'm wondering if the caution is to believe in your experience as being the same as all experience. whereas we could never really know what the vastness of the ocean really is as a wave experiencing it itself, right? So a couple of things are popping up. One is knowing. Yes. I mean, not knowing is nearest. So if you don't know the ocean, that's closer to the ocean than knowing the ocean, because what are you going to say? Oh, you'll say more words.

[41:15]

Yes. I've figured it all out. Yes, it's wet. We just get into language games. So part of it, if you remember from earlier talks around the transmission of light, at that point you get a whisk in the face. Because, you know, basically we get ourselves tied up into these intellectual knots, which are rather fun. I mean, they're, you know, it's fun to make knots and some are really good. You know, like that stuff that you were reading is really good. And it's... It's fun to play with it, and it's fun to process it through your own point of view, your own intellect, and see if you can apply yourself to what you're hearing. I think that's part of what we do. But at some point it's like, well, let's just have a cup of tea, you know? So a lot of times these teachers will talk, and they'll talk, and they'll talk, and they'll get at these kind of like insolvable problems, you know, like, well done, well done. Let's have a cup of tea. Let's just go back to, like, right now, right here, the warmth of the cup.

[42:19]

Whose cup is it? I don't know. Don't know. Empress Bodhidharma, who are you? Don't know. So, you know, don't know is kind of a wonderful escape clause. Like, you can kind of run away from all of these entanglements by just knowing that you don't know. You don't know. Nobody knows. Does the world end after we die? Did it start when I was born? Well, gee, I don't know. But maybe if you'll stick around after I die, you could write a little note that maybe if I'm not really gone, I could read. Like, oh, it didn't disappear when you died, Fu, or something like that. But how would we ever actually get proof for any of this? And how would I really know that it didn't really disappear? Yeah. Exactly. I felt as though that's really what, because in thinking that there is a separate view of the cup itself is the separation.

[43:27]

Or I would ask, is that in itself where we are separating it? That's what was interesting to me was when he said, thinking that it's the same cup is the separation. Right. Well, again, you're back in the ideas of separation. You're back in the thought of separation. It didn't separate anything from anything. It's all together. Everything arises together and everything abides together. And there's like the entire all-inclusive nature of reality. Reality doesn't really mind how you see the cup or I see the cup. Or what you call it. Cup doesn't mind. Who's there to mind? Well, we kind of get into it. We humans are really... Strange creatures on the planet who spent a lot of time negotiating this kind of philosophical questions, which is fun. It's fun to do, like crossword puzzles and so on. But at some point, it's like, how does it benefit you? How is it benefiting you? Knowing where you're separating.

[44:29]

Maybe the thing you want to be doing is seeing where you connect, seeing how you're unified with everyone. That love that you have for others is really, but matters, you know. Drinking the tea in the cup. Yeah, have some tea. Have some tea. Don't worry about the cup. Yeah, yeah. It's already broken, right? Exactly. That's wonderful because I was pondering this for a while and my wife saw me in thought, which I guess... probably doesn't happen as much anymore, deep in my own delusion. And then she asked me what I was thinking, and I explained to her, I was like, I just read this that really shook me up because I don't know what was. And then I tried to explain to her, and she asked, she's like, well, why does it matter? What a good girl. Isn't she about to give birth at some point? About to, by the way.

[45:30]

Yesterday we got some false alarms, but it's... Wow. There you go. There's about the cup. Here comes the world is about to be born right in your home, right? A whole nother world. Yeah, it was so exciting and I feel so happy for you. I hope it all goes very well for Vanessa who's going to be doing the work. Hopefully I can help in any way. Thank you, Fu. I feel like you gave the... the second part of that answer made it halt. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I'm not sure who came first. I think it might be the Ike. Cynthia. Boo, you gave me that name. I know, I know, but that's not... I can't pronounce it. Ike. One Ike. It means one something something.

[46:31]

One Valley Letting Go of the Moon. Because apparently I have an issue around attachment or letting go of the moon or however their whatevers. So anyway, I was thinking about how fun it is to sort of play with words, being a person who reads. I love the poem. And I'd love to have that poem so I could go through and play with it myself. Also, you mentioned another book about gate, something, whatever, something. Gateless Gate. It's a collection of coins called in Japanese, the Mumon Con. Okay, the Gateless Gate. Yeah. And I think what was coming up is that I'm trying to think about, okay, so you're going to have fun with all of these ideas. But then when the baby's born, when the baby's born or when the retirement shows up or when the big change is saying it's now not asking.

[47:49]

So then what becomes the most helpful from everything that I was hearing from today? And a couple of things stood out to me that I feel like, you know, I can put my energy there. When you said, kind is kind. And for me, because of what I do as a teacher in high school and looking at 100 kids every day, regardless of what's happening, I try to show up with kind and humor. And it really... it really does help. And then the other thing that I walked away with that I thought was really helpful is the Tour de France story about, okay, you got there, and so where am I going to generate that same sense of purpose?

[48:56]

Yeah. So anyways, and that goes with your retirement. And then I'm thinking about the story about No. Oh, and the dog. The dog was great. That dog really helped me. The thing about No, can you tell me a little bit about the No story? Oh, he asked. See, this is it. I forgot. Does the dog have... Oh, yeah. Does the dog have Buddha nature? Right. Does the dog have Buddha nature? And it's no, which means you're asking the wrong question. But I can't. I want to understand. What is the helpful? What is helpful from that story? Well. Partly what's helpful is putting, again, a whisk in the face. You weren't around so much when we were talking about that. But some of the stories from the Transmission of Light, when the monk is sincerely trying to crack the nut of his understanding, they're working really hard.

[49:56]

They're sitting and they're thinking and they're reading and they're going to the teacher and years go by and they don't understand and yada, yada, yada. And at some point they get closer to understanding and they start giving this intellectual stuff. And the teacher just reaches up with this whisk and puts the whisk in their face. And several of them just wake up right then. Because it stops this blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So that's the helpful thing. That's no. No. Or stop it. Stop it. That's right. Stop it. Okay. Oh, I remember one of the stories from Transmission Alight, and I missed Transmission Alight when you guys were doing that, but was, and it was very meaningful to me, but as a mom, how the, I don't remember which of those young monks, but he just let his mom just die on the, on the. That was our founder. Yeah. Very embarrassing.

[50:56]

You know, but. But I don't know, that's a really good, that's a good story. I read that story to all the parents who came for coming of age. And I remember even, I think Reb said, you can't read that. And it's like, but that's what it's about. It's about, you know, we're having to separate. And your attachments, there's this shift. That just naturally happens, and it's much – and anyways, it was just to address that shift. But the thing about the dog that I liked was when you talked about taking the dog off the leash. Yeah. Like I have this dog. I half share a dog with my daughter, and when I have the dog, the dog's on the leash. But when you take the dog off the leash, the energy is just so fun to just – Feel the shift in that little creature's energy.

[52:01]

And I thought, oh, because I'm visual, I could imagine taking my mind off the leash. Exactly. Exactly. And I don't know. I guess it's personal. Everybody is different in how they will take their own mind off the leash. Maybe it's like. Right. And also, like, don't leave it off the leash. You know, at some point you got to put. Right. because now you're in polite company or now you're in a situation where you're expected to perform in a certain way or whatever. So you know how to do both, how to be like this liberated, exuberant puppy. And then also the puppy needs to be, you know, trained. There needs training there because we don't really like puppies just running around all the time. And we don't like humans that just run around all the time saying whatever they feel like saying and doing whatever they feel like doing. That gets to be kind of tiring. Yeah. So it's a matter of balance, you know. But we do appreciate the exuberance of letting our minds run. Well, see, I wasn't even thinking of it as exuberant.

[53:05]

I was just feeling as though it was allowing all of the pressures from around to just like, wait, I'm just going to go off the leash. Off the leash to me felt like I'm going to sit on the sand and look at the ocean. Oh, well, that's a grown-up way. You know, it's the kid. It's the teenager in me. And like our dog, who was a trained service dog, he had a cape, a little red cape that he wore when he was on duty. And it was kind of like putting a tuxedo on a human. You know, he was very well trained to behave when he had his cape on. But when I take the cape off, he was a puppy. Yeah. And so that's the contrast I'm talking about. Yeah, he'd lay down eventually. He'd get kind of tired of running around. I remember him. He'd escape. He toured the gardens more than once.

[54:06]

Huh? You're gone. Where's your voice? Oh, I got muted somehow. Okay. Anyway. Well, so those were the things I liked that I kind of took away from. And I think the idea of playing with words is very interesting to me because I, you know, play with words all the time. It's my job. But then I thought, well, then what's the helpful thing that I'm going to be able to make me a better person out in the world? So when I'm off the leash, I'm either helping either myself or someone else or both. Well, that's the next, yeah, that's the next step in our training is precepts. Well, I hope I lived through too. Thank you, Cynthia. E.K. You got to work on that.

[55:09]

Hi. Hi. Thank you so much for these teachings and for the conversation. My question came up when you were talking about don't know, which is something that I feel very attracted to, the don't know. I'm oftentimes asking myself, not so much what do I know, because I know we don't know anything, but what have I experienced and what have I not experienced? But recently something happened where I was exploring the don't know And a lot of people got really, really, really, really, I mean, really angry at me. And so my question for you is, do you have any advice about how to handle that? When it felt to me like I was really following a path that seemed right to me, obviously. And that I also thought would be helpful to others.

[56:12]

But that led to rage beyond. anything that I would have anticipated, and some ruined relationships. Oh, I'm so sorry. I am too, in a way. But it also has forced me back on my own meditative resources in a way that's been very wonderful, also. Anyway, I'm just curious if you have any thoughts on that. Well, you know, it sounds like a very big experience happened for you with some other people. some dynamic relationship there that got crunched by some expression you made or some words you said or some action you took and so on. So I don't, I don't know how to speak to the particularities of that. I wish I'd been there. You know, I got very curious, like what happened? You know, I assume it wasn't violent. And then it was mostly talking that you see emails that made me worry for my wellbeing. Oh no.

[57:15]

That's terrible. Yeah. Well, again, we probably need to talk privately about what do you think happened there? What do you think the reaction came from? I mean, obviously, something triggered something. Yes. And being very curious, I guess that's part where my mind goes, is being curious about what happened, knowing that you can't... necessarily fix it, or it sounds like you can't fix it, that the damage was done for some people, but somehow to kind of really study the issue, like, well, what happened there from my side? What happened from the side of the others? If you have any people who you're intimate with who are still in friendly terms with you, see if they can help you to figure out what happened. Yeah, I have talked to a lot of colleagues who are either familiar with the incident or or have some insight and and we've arrived at the hypothesis that at least the person who sent me the email that made me fear for my well-being that that person thought i was doing so much damage that they had so much immediate damage that they had to act similarly uh quickly in a similar manner to stop the damage like it was like take you out

[58:41]

yeah exactly right like like in their mind you know they thought i was who knows who knows what they thought but they clearly thought i needed to be stopped like right now at all costs um and and so that helped me like that conversation really did help me okay now i kind of get their perspective and i can feel a little bit less little bit less confused you know i was able to observe and describe the situation in a way that at least seemed i could articulate something prior to that i think i was not articulate i was just so confused and hurt and afraid and angry but after the conversation with my colleague i was able to articulate something well that seems like going in the right direction of toward, you know, time passing is always good to get away from that event, whatever it was.

[59:47]

It's, you know, I remember writing in my calendar at one point, maybe not as dramatic a situation as you're talking about, but six months ahead in my calendar, where is that situation now? And by the time I got to that page in the calendar, I was like, oh my God, that was, that's long gone. So some part of it is that time will actually help you, you know, with these things. you know, which isn't much of a SAF, but it is true. No, oh no, it's great. And like I said, it forced me to look at my own resources. And I said, okay, I've got to start meditating two hours a day. And that was my goal. And some days I make it and some days I don't. But I've really learned to look forward to meditation and love meditation. And I'm not sure if I would have gotten to that if I hadn't been hit in the face. Well, as my therapist used to say to me, God works in mysterious ways. I said, you know, I translate that. I know, but still get the idea that we don't know what these forces are.

[60:49]

Something in there is beneficial for you, and hopefully at some point will be beneficial to others, which you don't control. But by meditating, I think you're contributing to the well-being of the world. I hope so. I'm loving it. Yeah, wonderful. Well, thank you for sharing that. Yeah. And I saw Paul, and then I see Echo. Hello. I was going to respond to Saul's comment, but my... Primary question was I was wondering if other people had listened to Peter Coyote at City Center yesterday. His talk at City Center was quite remarkable. And when it comes online or when the recording is available, it's worth listening to because it was really dramatic as to his description of how...

[61:54]

The meditation practice has changed his life and the meaning to him and what things happened as a result. So I'm really impressed. He's such a clear speaker. As a writer and as a narrator and actor, he can really express things, and a poet, almost poetically. So it's much more... let's say, connectable, understandable than just the usual mumbo-jumbo about, you know. intellectual stuff about him. It was really about feelings and how it really affected him and how it changed his behavior through the meditation practice over the years. I can't summarize it. It's too complicated. It's basically a way-seeking mind. It was sort of his story from the very beginning of the beat movement in the 60s or whatever when he got into...

[63:00]

all kinds of alternative stuff. And it was, anyway, I'm just sharing that. I guess when it becomes available, I will see if I can share that link. It should be on the Zen Center website, and whatever time it takes to post that. But the other comment I was going to, in reaction to Saul just talking about, I've, At Enzo, this is quite a bit different, but similar, I think. I've encountered, I've interacted with people because people ask me computer questions or they'll give me some random thing. Something or other doesn't work. What do I do? And there's only about 10 million possibilities. So it's kind of... And I start asking more questions. And the data I get back from people is completely irrational.

[64:01]

I don't know how to say that differently. It doesn't make any sense. It can't be connected to anything. And so my... I'm not the first person they've asked about this. They've asked several other people and haven't gotten anywhere. And there was one woman who came to me and asked one of these really, what seemingly seemed like a really stupid question and didn't make any sense. But I was patient with it. I found I tried to exercise patience and listen to her and keep with her and have her show me what she's seeing. And eventually I discovered that what her issue had a basis in fact, and we could fix it. So it was kind of a breakthrough of going from a completely, the symptoms being just like not related to anything on this planet. And like, you know, she's just, oh, she doesn't know it.

[65:04]

She is not a computer person. She has no idea what she's talking about. But in fact, by listening to it as if she is, saying something that can be heard, that she is describing an experience and trying to slow down and see it from her perspective so I could see what she was seeing. It finally made sense, and I was able to then give her a workaround for the situation she was encountering, and she was greatly appreciative. So I'm hearing the colleagues that are upset with you from your response to them, I'm suggesting patience with trying to hear what their upset is, even if it isn't part of your world at all. And it... In my particular case, it took me probably an hour to get to something really pretty minor.

[66:12]

But I could not hear her for the language she was using and what she was showing me made no sense. And it just took a long time and persistence. So the persistence and patience was staying with what their issue is long enough so that you completely understand it. And then there's a way that that was the situation. You know, it's obviously not a hostile, you know, you're ruining the world. This was just a completely different example. There was no hostility involved, so I thought I'd share that. Well, she must have thought you finally came to your senses. You finally understand what I'm saying. We think she's kind of a wingnut ourselves. Oh, well. She's a character around Enzo. Yeah, there are a few of them. Actually, all of us are. Yeah, well, that's true. We were having a problem with our device, you know, unnamed device.

[67:17]

You can't even know what to call it. And we asked – you weren't here, so we asked Jim if he could help. He's the other brainiac that seems to know a lot about things. And so he came over. He was very kind. I think we also were using foreign language because he was trying real hard to give us words that we could connect to. And then we finally realized he was unplugged, of course, which was – Kind of delightful. It took about an hour. But basically, oh, it's not plugged in. I said, oh, my God, you know. I mean, and without him, without you, without us, we wouldn't have this opportunity to meld and to become, you know, one community. One amazing, you know, example of ultimate and relative truth. Back to the... our founders' main interests in this world. Thank you, Paul, for both of those. You're reminding me. There was actually a similar situation in your house at Green Bay.

[68:20]

Yes, I remember. Where the Wi-Fi stopped working. Right. Like, well, what's going on? We're trying to figure out what got disconnected. We discovered that some cleaning person had unplugged the Wi-Fi unit to plug in the vacuum. Not you guys, but somebody from outside, I don't remember. There's not many outlets. And they did not replug it when they were done. Yeah. It's an amazing universe we're in these days. It's mostly magic. And I think the fact that unplugging seems to be the secret to most of it is really a relief. Well, unplug it and plug it back in again. It's simple. That seems to be 90% of the solution is... Rebooting by shutting off and turning on again when it comes to our electronic devices that are infuriating. That seems to be the go-to solution. Relationships as well.

[69:21]

You know, just unplugging. Plug it back again. Okay. Reset. Reset. Okay. All right. Thank you, Paul. Echo. Echo. Well, all this talks about... I'd like to share a little story in response. About 20 years ago, I had a job on the customer service on the phone. So people were calling me and saying, I don't have internet. You know, technical issues. And the first question we ask is, okay, we verify that you're all customers. You should have internet, but you don't. The first question is, so this is backing, you know. So is your modem connected to your Ethernet on the wall, and is it plugged in? Is it powered on? And my client would say yes. Then my next question is, so what is the color of the plug?

[70:27]

Then on my side of the telephone, I hear this, like moving furnitures. And then two minutes later, they come back and say, Which plug are you talking about? So, yes, usually after everything plugged in, it works. Yeah. All right. So I was reading something a couple of days ago. What's a yogi teacher talking about somebody? and writes about it and post it online. So he talks about what is there and what is not there. What is and what is not. And he says, samadhi is when we glimpse what is not. So my guess is this is, you know, my understanding is that what is being and what is a non-being.

[71:31]

And being means something that's something that exists in the world that I don't understand. That you don't understand? That you don't understand? Being is... I understand it as something that exists in the world according to my understanding. And non-being is, you know, doesn't exist according to my understanding. It doesn't mean it doesn't exist absolutely. It's just not in my... nothing that I can perceive, nothing that maybe I cannot describe with words. But somehow, maybe we can experience directly, but we cannot communicate about it intellectually.

[72:37]

So, is knowing something that I know that exists in my world and not knowing is something that I don't know according to my understanding of the world? Well, that's one way of understanding. That's kind of from the point of view of the person, which is the only point of view you have or I have. So from my point of view, what you said makes sense. If I don't understand it, then it can't be understood. It's not understandable. You know, I don't have access to most of what's going on in the universe. I have a limited access to anything at all.

[73:44]

So if I say, well, I know what's in my house or I know what's in my room or I know what's, you know, I'm pretty much local, like Dogen's circle of water. You know, we out in the boat in the middle of the ocean, the ocean looks circular, doesn't look any other way. But that's my point of view from the boat. But I know and, you know, we do know because we've been told that. The ocean is vast, and underneath it there are mansions of fish, and there's whales, and there's all kinds of stuff. So we don't know it in that sense of our experiential knowing, but we can have an understanding of it that takes us past the limitations of our point of view. I think that's what dharma is doing. A lot of that is just breaking down where you stop. Well, I don't know. It's like, well, then not knowing what you don't know is a lot more than what you know. So include that and who you are. That's included. Like the vastness is included. You know, you are, I am a product of the universe.

[74:49]

Somehow I got produced here. I don't know how this happened. I'll never know how it happened. And I hear that at some point I'm going to vanish. I don't know how that's going to happen either. So I don't know about all that. I have this very limited circle of water. And I'm very grateful that the Buddha Dharma has been, you know, somebody rode that into my circle of water and said, why don't you read these things? Why don't you look at this? Why don't you think about this? Other people have been confused by this very same thing. And here's what they had to say. So I find the Dharma to be sort of like a... alchemical transformation of what I experienced as limitations. I now feel like I'm conjoined with the whole world's limitations are mine. Everybody's got the same level of what they do and don't know, what they can and can't know. I don't feel like I'm a stranger in a strange land the way I did when I was in college or so on.

[75:53]

I don't know was frightening rather than comforting. These are a play of words, right? We're just playing with words. So, whisk in the face. It's okay to stop thinking about it or considering it, and it's fine to turn it back on again. Either way. But knowing that you can go both ways. You can stop and just look like we do as sitting around the table at lunch. We just stop because we can't remember what we were going to say. It's a great relief. You can just stop. You can do it while you're young. You can just stop and be quiet. And then get back on the train, back on the bike, whatever you're doing. And don't get confused. Try not to get confused. Try to find the balance between those two, knowing and not knowing. That's what you are. You're those two things, conjoined. Well, I have great appreciation of this, our capacity of learn things, you know, comprehend things that we cannot understand, like math, mathematical stuff.

[77:22]

Yeah. Yeah, we run on that brilliance, on our brilliance. We are so smart. We monkeys. You're so smart. You're so stupid at the same time. We've got both of those things going. You know, we are really losing our way in our brilliance. And so, you know, we are outsmarting ourselves. So that's the fearful part. That's the part where the Buddha as a physician comes in, not as just a philosopher, but as a doctor of healing. I remember reading something about the word meaning comes from a similar root to moaning. What is your moaning? What are you suffering? What are you suffering? That's what really matters. Or at least that's what matters to this tradition.

[78:22]

What's the suffering? How can we help you? There's something about experience with my own body. So I've seen lots of them. I'm sure lots of us do. Alexis, stop. Sorry. You have an echo. All right. Yeah, just like you. A dot. So there are lots of... Well, I've seen lots of... video clips about underwater stuff, you know, fish, corals, rocks. But the first time, I went scuba diving and actually see it with my eyes. I mean, of course, I recognize what I see immediately.

[79:26]

I've seen it a million times. But that experience is still... Well, it's beyond words. Right. Right. It's not about knowing the name of the fish. No. No. And that's what, you know, the thrill of being alive is the snow and the water and the birds and the gift of our senses and being present is, you know, I mean, that's the beauty of it all. And it passes through. It's just like, now what? Now what? Thank you, Fu. Thank you, Echo. Okay. How about one more time?

[80:26]

Melissa. Hello. Hello. I'll keep this. Oh, first. Good evening. Sangha. Good evening, Fu. Thank you so much, as always. I'll keep this very short. I just wanted to contribute to the conversation as it arose for me during the question period. I recently was watching something on Apple TV called Dark Matter. And then reading again, I'm with Senko, my Dharma sister. We're rereading Musiang's Diamond Sutra. And in there, he, excuse me, rather brings up David Bohm. An idea of enfolded and unfolded realities and the parallels to ultimate reality and conventional reality. And anyway, this Dark Matter series, it gave me a conceptualization that I'm finding really intriguing right now about the two truths.

[81:35]

In this series, the idea is that the scientist creates a black box in which he can travel the multiverse and see different versions of his own reality. And what makes it work is that he gives himself a drug inside this box that eliminates his prefrontal cortex's ability to to make the sort of ape-like assumptions that we always make. It allows them to see a broader slice of reality, almost like being able to turn your head and see all of the prisms of your multiple realities. I thought to myself, whenever I experience a moment of just this is it, to me it always feels like I'm turning my head and I didn't realize there was this option over here. And then I see that option and I'm like, oh. Oh, that's so much easier. What am I fussing with all of this over here for? And anyway, seeing that conceptualization really makes me think a lot of the two truths and how discovering some part of your, some more than your regular slice of reality is that beginner's mind, is that...

[82:55]

opening into ultimate truth from the conventional reality. And it takes breaking down the way that we think. So anyway, I just wanted to share that with the community and recommend the series if you're so inclined. Is it a science thing or is it a kind of a sci-fi? Drama, sci-fi thing. And I enjoyed it because I don't understand physics. Much as I try to keep up with Shorin in these discussions, but I can't do it. And so popular science for me was the way that I understood it. And to have it visualized in that way, which is very artistic rendering of it, was very helpful. So I found it charming and helpful for me personally. Great. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, everyone. So good to see you all. We'll see you next week. I hope you have a good week. And we'll look at, what's the next one?

[83:56]

Well, I don't know. Anyway, we'll look at the next one. And Zen Mind Beginners Mind. So please unmute and say goodbye if you like. Please take care, all of you. And thank you so much for being here. Thank you, Fu. Thank you, Fu, everybody. Have a good week, everyone. Good luck with that. Take care. Thank you, everybody. Thank you, Fu, and good luck. That dinosaur is awesome. Good one. I have one too. I'll get one next time. I'll show you my dinosaur. I've got a really good one too. Is his mouth open and closed? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Excellent. Wow. Great. Be careful with that. Yeah. It might bite you. All right. Oh, yeah. Have a good morning. Bye. Good morning.

[84:57]

Good evening. Good night.

[85:00]

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