This podcast is offered by the San Francisco Zen Center on the web at sfzc.org. Our public programs are made possible by donations from people like you. Good morning. So welcome to the Green Gulch Theater. I'd like to introduce Ponce the pig. Good morning. Good morning, everyone. Nice to see you. Especially the little boys and girls. Hello. Thank you, Ponce. And this is Binky. Binky's a bunny. And if you didn't know, but I can let you know that... Actually, Binky is a swami.

[01:02]

His full name is Swami. Do you know what a swami is? Swami is a spiritual teacher. This little stuffed bunny is a spiritual teacher. So his full name is Swami Binky Ananda. And if you little boys and girls, if you have any questions you want to ask the swami, you say, hey Bink, what do you think? And then Binky will tell you. But I have to interpret for him because he just squeaks. He doesn't know how to use words. So Ponce has a story. Ponce and Binky have a story to tell you. I'll let them do most of the story, but I need to tell you ahead of time that there's a place in the story where... You need to have a slight smile.

[02:05]

You smile and you say, we'll see. We'll see. So some bad things can happen, and then some good things can happen. So if something bad happens, oh, how terrible that is. Well, we'll see. Okay, are you ready to say, we'll see? Or something good might happen and then, that's wonderful, isn't it? Okay, so this is to say that, you know, all of life, all the time in life, we'll have some wonderful things, pleasant things, happy things happen, and then sometimes some terrible things will happen. And in either case, yeah. We'll see. Is that the end of the story? No. We'll see what happens next. Okay?

[03:06]

So I'm going to ask Ponce to tell you the story. Okay? Are you ready? Once upon a time there was a family in China. Is that the voice you want to use, Ponce? Once upon a time there was a... family in China, and they were pretty poor. Poor? You know, they didn't have very much money, okay? And they lived out in the countryside, and they just had a little bit of food to eat, and the father did farming. There was a brother and a sister. That's right, yeah. Brother and a sister. And they were very poor, so they just barely had enough to eat. But they were pretty happy. They were a pretty happy family, okay? But one day, they had just one horse. And one day, their horse disappeared. It went running off. The horse disappeared.

[04:08]

And the neighbors came by and said, oh, we heard your horse disappeared. That's terrible. And what did the old farmer man say, the father say? We don't see. And then, and then? So then, a few days later, the day went by, a night went by, another day, another night. And one day, the horse came back, their horse came back, and he brought back a whole band of wild horses with him. It was very exciting. They now had, instead of just one horse, they had seven or eight horses. So the neighbors came by, and they said to the farmer, what did they say? That's wonderful. That's wonderful. Now you have a whole herd of horses. And the old farmer said, So, do you want to squeak when you see?

[05:10]

Ponce sometimes can, I have to help him, use his other voice. So, then what happened, Ponce? Well, then the son, he started trying to tamed the wild horses so they could ride them. And one of the wild horses bucked, the horse was bucking, and threw him off and he went high into the air and he came down and he broke his leg. Oh no, oh no. And then people came and the mother said to him, oh that's terrible, your leg is broken. And the And the sister said, that's terrible. Your leg is broken. And what did the old man say? The father? We'll see. So the son, the son, and then Ponce. Then the son said, then the son was getting better and better, but he had his leg in a cast.

[06:11]

You know, when you break your leg, he's in a cast. And then what happened? What happened? Do you remember? Then one day, the sun was still recovering, and a whole big army came through. And in those days, the government would send the army through, and they would conscript, they would capture all the young men to join the army. To join the army. Use your voice, Bonse, not mine. Okay. So the army said, we're here to take your son and put him in the army. And then they took a look at him, though, and his leg was broken. They said, you can't be in the army with a broken leg like that. And so then what happened?

[07:12]

Then the father and the mother said, that's great. You don't have to be in the army. And the father said, We'll see. So that's the end of our story for now, but we don't know what happens next. But I want to remind you that, you know, and I want to tell you about a couple practices. One is that, you know, different things will happen and you can still have a slight smile. You know, sometimes you may be disappointed Oh, that's so sad. I couldn't do that. I didn't do very well. You're disappointed. Then you could have a slight smile. Oh, and we'll see what happens next. We'll see. And I could have a slight smile. I could smile a little bit. And then you do something really well, and then you could have a slight smile.

[08:15]

We'll see. That's pretty nice. Good. Nice. And sometimes you will fall down or you'll get hurt. And then you'll say, we'll see. It'll be okay. We'll see. And you have a slight smile for yourself. And for somebody who has some good times and some bad times. So then you have a slight smile. Do you understand having this little smile? Do you know how to smile? I'll bet some of you could make really big smiles. We'll see. So I want to tell you about another way to do this practice. This is a little practice for you, because sometimes things happen that are very upsetting, because sometimes other children aren't nice to you, and sometimes your parents are angry with you or upset about something that has nothing to do with you. LAUGHTER

[09:19]

And then you want to say, oh gosh, mommy's upset. Nevertheless, I could smile. Daddy's upset. Even though daddy is upset, I could have a slight smile. I could smile. I could have a little smile. Even though those other children were mad at me and hurt me, I could have a slight smile. I could let go of it and smile. Do you understand? Different things happen and you, oh, that's really sad. That's really disappointing. Even so, I could have a slight smile. I could make a little smile. Okay? And you can think of Ponce and Binky. You have a slight smile. We'll see what happens next. We'll see. Okay? So we're going to go on now. I'm going to send you away now unless you want to stay because there's some other kids program and I'm going to go on with the adults talk, but it's not going to get any better than this.

[10:33]

And if anybody wants to come and say goodbye to Ponce or, you know, or squeak, Hi. Hi. Do you want to squeak Ponce's head? That's good, yeah. Hi, Bennett. Hi, Bennett. What do you think, Ponce? Do you want to hold him? He can go to sleep again. So bad. We'll see.

[11:49]

Good morning once again. You know, now that the advanced students have left, you know... We'll see. In 1983, here at Green Gulch, I was introduced by Thich Nhat Hanh to the practice of smiling. And this is a very interesting, you know, and at the time, and to some extent, largely, you know, we still are a Zen tradition from Japan. And so Japan is not known for a smiling population. Zen is more known for samurai spirit. And, you know, for instance, the story of the

[13:01]

bandits who were rampaging and they invaded this monastery and the old abbot was sitting there in his bathtub and they said, what are you doing in your bathtub? Didn't you hear that we were on our way here and everybody else has fled? He said, it's important to have a bath. I don't want to miss my bath because of some riffraff. And... And the head of the bandit said, don't you know I can run you through with a sword without blinking? And the Zen master said, don't you know I can be run through with a sword without blinking? So that's more traditionally Zen spirit. Anyway, in 1983, Thich Nhat Hanh, among his students, he's known as Thay, T-H-A-Y, Thay.

[14:10]

So Thich Nhat Hanh was here and leading a retreat for those of us here at Zen Center. And one day, for instance, and he was teaching us to practice smiling. He said, you could have a slight smile. And he said, this is not like a television smile. Hi, everybody. Nice to see you today. Isn't this great? Aren't we all having such a good time? And he said, this is not a smile to hide what's behind the smile. This is to have a slight smile, regardless of what's happening. So instead of identifying with the object of awareness, I'm sad. Oh, I'm so sad that I'm sad. I'm angry. Oh, I'm so angry that I'm angry. So instead of identifying, or if somebody else is angry, don't get angry with me, then you get angry back.

[15:12]

Or if they're sad, oh, that's so sad. So it's very easy for us to be in the grips of the object of our awareness. And his suggestion was, you have a slight smile. You could practice having a slight smile. You're sad, you could have a slight smile for somebody who's sad. You're lonely, you could have a slight smile for somebody who's lonely. And so on. Rather than identifying, I'm so lonely, and then you spiral down and away. Oh gosh, I've never been this lonely. oh gosh, what's wrong with me that I'm so lonely? Now I'm so depressed that I'm lonely. And anywhere along there, you can say, well, I'm really discouraged and I don't have a partner. Well, I could have a slight smile for that, for this person.

[16:16]

So it's beginning to relate to the object of awareness instead of from the object. But, you know, 1983, and, you know, I don't know how it is here today, but in 1983, we were Zen students. We were very serious, and you didn't smile. And you looked down. You don't make eye contact. And if you're really good at it, you do what's called a pole-carrying mouth. Pole-carrying is where the corners of your mouth turn down. It's where the pole is over your shoulder and it's got a weight on it. You've got a bag on either end, so the pole bends over your shoulder. Pole-carrying mouth. So we were doing our best Japanese Zen practice. Doesn't matter what Thich Nhat Hanh said. So we were here in the zendo, and he was up here.

[17:21]

I was in that far corner back there. We were doing walking meditation. One step with each breath. Inhale, step. Exhale, shift your weight. And he said, in this big voice, with no need of a microphone, some of you are not smiling. You're wasting your time. This is very hard for us to hear. Because for many years, you know, to practice like that was exactly not a waste of time. That was Zen. That was spiritual. That was getting somewhere. And, you know... As one of my friends used to say about that time, we practiced looking good.

[18:26]

Looking. You tried to practice looking enlightened and waiting for others to recognize how enlightened you were. And then Thich Nhat Hanh would say, you're wasting your time. So this is very challenging. And then after a while, at some point, there would be a question and answer period. So Ty would say, maybe over in the Wheelwright Center or somewhere else, the old library, I don't remember. And he'd say, are there any questions? And somebody would say, suppose I don't feel like smiling. Wouldn't it be insincere to smile? And Ty would say, do you know those faucets that have, you know, there's one faucet that comes out, but there's a hot water and there's a cold water?

[19:34]

You can mix them, you know. You might want to add a slight smile in, you know, with your with your other feeling. And he would say, you know, you could have a slight smile for somebody who doesn't feel like smiling. This is meant to be a kind of foolproof practice. Do you understand? You could have a slight smile for When the horse runs away, when the herd comes back, when the lug is broken and he's limping, the army comes through, he's saved, you could have a slight smile. But one of my friends went to a Thich Nhat Hanh retreat many years later, and he came back, he was so upset and discouraged, and he said, oh, that was so hard.

[20:46]

The smiling was really hard. You've done hours, weeks of sitting Zen. Painful legs, you know, back that aches. And then those days we get hit with a stick and then sometimes we would miss, they hit the back of your neck or your ear, you know, your shoulder, you know, across your spine. And You could sit there for days, and it kept you awake, like, I'm wounded. So my friend had been through years and years of this, and he came back from the TikTok retreat. That was so hard. I said, what was so hard? He said, I couldn't smile. I didn't know how to enjoy myself. And I said, well, didn't he explain that you could have a slight smile for somebody who doesn't know how to smile?

[21:49]

You could have a slight smile for somebody who can't enjoy themselves? I don't know. It's really hard to change these habits. To... to let go of the object of awareness or what we think of ourselves. I don't know how to enjoy myself. I can't smile. Is it true? But we start to believe that and then what does it mean? Oh, I'm not a good student. Oh, I couldn't do that. Oh, I'm... And then we can... Down, down, down. I don't think, by the way, of course, that Zen students are the only people who tend to want to practice the right way and live the right kind of life. Most of us have this kind of difficulty of being captivated by the object of awareness, whether it's our thinking or our feeling, our emotion.

[23:03]

And then we become like the victim of what we're thinking, and we're at the mercy of our thoughts, at the mercy of our emotions, then how do we have some freedom from that? So that's, of course, why we sit, to have some freedom and not be moved by all of that. And then at some point, might try smiling. One time I had... And by the way, you know... Suzuki Roshi used to say, and of course one of his main teachings was, don't stick to anything. Don't stick to anything. And this is, but another way of saying this, he also would say, and Zen Master, of course Zen Master Dogen also said this, if you find a good teaching, then practice it.

[24:05]

But you always keep some space in your awareness to hear a better teaching, another teaching that might be really helpful to try. And we call that formal practice with informal feeling. Or formal practice, exact practice with a soft mind, a soft feeling. And the softness is that you're open or receptive to hear something that you might want to try out. see how it works, see if it helps to shift things in your life, in your awareness. And this is an interesting one. In its way, the practice of smiling is very similar to, and Thich Nhat Hanh considers it actually a mindfulness practice. Mindfulness is the basic Buddhist practice, the basic practice to See if you can be aware of the moment of your experience without any assessment, good, bad, right, wrong, better, worse, getting somewhere, not getting anywhere.

[25:19]

How am I doing? We'll see. And somehow we keep thinking that even though I'm going to go on doing things the way I always have, I could get better results if I understood things a little better. This is a funny one. I'll go on doing things the same way I always have, but I want the results to be better. And the problem isn't my doing things the way I always have. The problem is that other people don't realize how well I'm doing it. And if they realized how well I was doing it, then they would start behaving differently. Do I need to belabor this point? You got it? So you could try something different, a slight smile.

[26:23]

I was teaching this one day here at Green Gulch, and a woman came up to me and she said, Ed, I've practiced smiling all my life for you men. I sacrificed myself for years just to make you guys happy. And I'm not doing it anymore. And I said, gosh, that sounds pretty painful. But you could have a slight smile for somebody who did that all those years. But this is a simple, immediate way to have some empathy for yourself and to have some lighthearted feeling. And the basic point of mindfulness, to be aware without assessing good, bad, right, wrong.

[27:23]

Because our usual strategy is to assess how well I'm doing and then give ourselves some advice. Of course, it's not you giving yourself some advice, it's your bad roommate giving you advice. Your bad roommate, otherwise known as your thinking mind, or what we also call monkey mind. But I like that bad roommate, too. The person who seems to live with you, who seems to know what everything is going on, but... Very strange. But the basic point of mindfulness, again, is can you begin relating to the object of awareness? There it is. Oh, anger. Oh, sadness. Oh, aching. Oh, seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting. Oh, disappointment. Oh, jealousy. Oh, loneliness. And begin noticing that, but not identifying with it and relating from that place.

[28:26]

It looks great. Oh, how great! It looks, you know. bad, and you say, oh, ugly, depressing. So our tendency is to think, because we identify so much with the object of awareness like this, we think we need to control our environment and everyone in it and ourself so that these things that depress us or worry us or scare us aren't happening. We think we can spot those things and then make them behave differently. which, as you've probably heard, is like trying to put leather on all the roads in the world rather than on your feet. You can't do it. You can't get everybody to behave in compliance with your requests. You just can't.

[29:29]

But you can have your own ground, your own core, you know, you're on the ground, you're upright, and you can have your soft mind, and you can notice things without being captivated and identifying with the object. So one way, basic mindfulness, noting things, seeing what's going on without assessing, and when you assess, you make the note, you note to yourself, oh, judging, going, judging, oh, assessing, oh, prescribing. You know, oh, giving out directives. But this is another way, is just to have a slight smile. Whatever happens, you could have a slight smile. Maybe. And so again, it's a way to not be... captivated by the object.

[30:31]

I'm sad. I'm scared. I'm lost. I'm confused. I don't know what I'm doing. I'm not sure that people like me. I'd like them to like me. I want more respect. I want more approval, attention, recognition. And so then a slight smile is a way to Acknowledge, you know, empathy, compassion for yourself. For being human being. Planet Earth. So I want to tell you one other story about this.

[31:33]

Several years back, it's been about 10 years now, there was a Zen Center reunion, big, big reunion in San Francisco. And there was 150 or more old Zen students. My friend Ruvain was there from Taiwan. Ruvain and I had been roommates at Tassajara, or next door to each other anyway, and Ruvain is quite a character. He had been at that, and he used to be the gardener at Tassajara, and then he would mostly eat. He'd go through the garden and graze. That's a story for another time. Quite fascinating. But anyway, he was at this Zen Center reunion, and I said, well, aren't you going to have anything to eat here? And Ruben said, Ed, in a few minutes, I'm going to go upstairs, and I'm going to eat two raw cocoa beans.

[32:42]

And if you haven't eaten, and then you eat two raw cocoa beans, you get really high. I said, so not one, not three, huh? Two, two. Ruvane studied these things. So Ruvane was there and I got some teaching from Ruvane. And then I saw another old roommate of mine, a man named Jack Elias. And Jack said, so, you know... We're saying hello, and he knows I did the Tussara Bread book, and he said, you know, I've had some success of my own. I wrote a book called Finding True Magic, and it's actually been quite successful, you know, pretty successful. I said, well, that's wonderful, Jack, and congratulations.

[33:48]

And Jack said, yeah, you know, I became a... After I left Zen Center, I went to study with Trungpa Rinpoche in Boulder, And I got married, and I was selling commercial real estate. And I had three kids. And one day I had an appointment to sell, you know, with somebody to sell real estate. So I was trying to get the kids all ready for school. And it was very stressful, because I don't want to miss my appointment. And the kids are just running around the house. and having a great time, and they're not paying any attention to me. And he said, I had been at that point, I was so tired of screaming at them. And so I didn't know what else to do. I stood in the middle of the living room and screamed, Help! And the kids all came running and put their arms around me and hugged me and said, Daddy, what can we do?

[34:55]

And he said, that's the day my life changed. And one thing led to another, and I started studying. I went back to school and studied psychology, and then I started doing hypnotherapy. And I said, I was... I was quite struck by all of this. I'm kind of keeping interested in things, you know. So I said, well, Jack, could I work with you? And Jack said, well, sure. And I said, but you live in Seattle. I live here. And he said, Ed, we can do it over the phone. Over the phone. But don't you, for hypnotherapy, don't you need to kind of like be there and like... And he said, Ed, I think we have a different understanding of hypnotherapy.

[35:57]

But his understanding is that each moment is like a spell. So we're all creating the kind of... We live in the kind of spell that we create. Mostly we create our spell unconsciously. And we're living in that. How did you get to be who you are? And what's your way of going about things? It's the spell that you live in. And that's who I am, and that's the world. That's the way the world is, and that's how we do things here on planet Earth. And I'm doing the best I can. So you live in your spell. And what Jack was... It turned out... And Buddhism, it sometimes says the same thing. that we're in the business of dispelling your present view, your present understanding, your present relationship, how everything is created and comes into being.

[37:00]

We can dispel that, and then we can create new spells. So this hypnotherapy isn't actually so... far removed from, if I may say so, in my world, so far removed from Buddhism and from Zen, that we could dispel how we're captivated by objects, we could practice mindfulness, we could have a slight smile, and we're not so captivated by the spell we're in. Suppose I don't feel like smiling. I'm no good at it. Suppose you weren't so captivated by that. So I talked to Jack, and I'm going to shorten the story here because there's a couple wonderful pieces, but maybe another time.

[38:04]

But after the first conversation with Jack, on the phone, it took about an hour, and I hung up the phone, and on the solid wood floor, I lay down and I slept solid two hours. I thought, wow, that's amazing. Wow. I feel pretty refreshed. And a few days later, I talked to Jack, and Jack said, well, how was that for you? And he said, I said, Jack, you know, after I talked with you, I lay down on the solid wood floor, and I slept for two hours. That was pretty amazing. And Jack said, Ed, we call that resistance. I guess you didn't want to hear what I was talking about, did you? So then he said, let's start over again. And it was one of the key conversations ever in my life because Jack said...

[39:13]

Ed, you have a lot of feelings from your childhood. Your mother had cancer when you were born. Your mother died when you were three. You're unhappy. You're scared. You're full of dread. You have anxiety. And you know what? You don't have to keep watching that stuff. The reason you feel these things is because you're watching old movies. In order to feel something, you have to be watching a movie that brings up that feeling for you. And this is what he calls a spell. And why it's a spell is, Ed, why are you still watching those same movies? Well, they're true. They're true movies. They're the movies that happened. I recorded them. But when you watch them, he said, you're sad, you're scared, you're unhappy.

[40:16]

Why do you keep watching them? Well, it's how I love my mother. It's how I remember my childhood. But when you watch them, you're unhappy. Why are you doing that? Well, it's real. It's true. It's my mom. It's my childhood. It's my dad. It's my family. And, you know, this is who I am. But when you... Remind yourself of all this. You're really scared and you're unhappy and you're sad and you're lost. Why do you keep doing that? And he persisted for about an hour. He's the first person who stayed with me while I kept protesting, you know, that my spell was the one that I should have. that I needed to have that was the right spell, that was my spell, it was mine. And that was the way I loved, I was loving, the way I was loyal, the way I was devoted, I was a good son, the way I remembered my family, my mother, my father, I remembered all of this.

[41:30]

This is the way I could be true to myself, true to my family, the way I loved. But you do that and look at you. Then that's the spell you live in. I said, but Jack, I don't have any other movies. And Jack goes, Ed, excuse me, but you're like in charge of the theater. You can run some other movies. You can show other movies. You don't have to keep watching just the same one over and over. You could practice smiling. No, I'm going to watch the same movies. And Jack said, and I said, but I don't know. I don't have any other movies. I don't have any other movies to show. And Jack said, excuse me, you're the screenwriter, the director, the producer, the cinematographer. Write some other movies. Create some other movies. Show something else in your awareness.

[42:34]

Generate some other pictures. You can do this. So I'm like, Jack, I've never done this before in my life. What do you mean I can do this? But the key was agreeing that I'm stuck. I'm captivated and caught in my spell the way I've always done it. It's the right way. It's what you do. I'm a good person. I'm doing my best. This is how you do it here on planet Earth. So I agreed. Okay, Jack. Got it. I don't have to keep showing the same old movies. I get sad, scared, lonely, you know, all these things when I watch the same old movies. What can I do? And Jack said, why don't I give you something just very basic to start with? Thank you.

[43:35]

And Jack said, you can use even though or nevertheless. You can say, even though I'm, if something, a feeling comes up, you can say, even though I'm scared, nevertheless, I will be, how about joyful and happy? How about joyful and happy? Would that be okay? How about joyful and happy? Even though I'm scared, I will be joyful and happy. We'll see. Have a slight smile. Even though I'm scared, does that mean you can't have a slight smile? You can't be joyful and happy? I'm somebody who's scared, and I'm not going to let that stop me from being joyful and happy. I don't have to identify with the being scared and be like, oh, I'm scared. I'm really scared. I'm so scared. Really, really, truly. And then it builds inside you when you identify with it. So right away, I'm scared. Nevertheless, I will be joyful and happy. Or even though I'm scared, I will be joyful and happy. Angry, even though I'm angry, I will be joyful and happy.

[44:41]

I'm angry. Nevertheless, I will be joyful and happy. And at that time, all day long, things are coming up. Sad, scared, angry, irritated, anxious. And so every time something came up, and every time I said that, I'm anxious, nevertheless, I'll be joyful and happy, it just disappeared. And after about four days, everything just stopped. Where are my friends? Who upset me so much? Where did they go? I guess they're on a little leaf of absence. So I called up Jack and I said, Jack, this is like finding true magic. So it's very interesting to, but you know, and it's been curious to me because the first time I talked about this at a Zen group, you know, 30 people.

[45:54]

And I explained to them, even though I'm anxious, I will be joyful and happy. Even though I'm scared, nevertheless, I will be joyful and happy. And afterwards they said, Ed, that is not Zen. In Zen we practice seeing what is. And it's the way I say. And I'm going to stick to my spell, whether you do or not. Whether you stick to yours or not, I'm sticking to my spell. And the one I live in is the one where we just sit with the way things are. How is the way things are? And is there any room for practicing mindfulness, having a slight smile? Is that part of the way things are? Or you get to practice being helpless while everything else gets to be the way it is?

[46:55]

Everything else gets to be the way it is. But if you have the urge to smile, you can't. You're not allowed. Because that's not Zen. Or it's not the way you've always done it. So one way or another, you know, we're aiming for some freedom. You know, freedom from... being captivated by our spell, by the way we've always been, by the way we've always done things. So, for instance, Pema Chodron says, you are the sky. Everything else, that's the weather. But we forget. What am I going to do about these clouds, this storm, this rain, this fog? What am I going to do about it? rather than in the midst of this crappy weather, I could be joyful and happy.

[47:59]

I could have a slight smile. I don't have to be caught by the way things are, captivated in a spell. And Suzuki Roshino said, Even spiritual is just another side of the phenomenal world. Spiritual and material are still both phenomenal world. And what about the reality that underlies spiritual and material, or what we call usually in the West the ontological side of reality? You can't say anything about it. It's not light or dark. you know, happy or sad. But it supports us, it carries us. You know, usually in Zen it's called the absolute or it's called emptiness. But it's also called big mind.

[49:02]

And we're all supported by big mind. It's what, you know, Rumi calls ecstatic love. That we're all here and the stars move in the night sky. because of ecstatic love. If it wasn't for ecstatic love, nothing would be here. It's what some people call light. I saw a little video of Robert Quagliata, who's now Narcissus Quagliata. He studied with us at Tassajara with Suzuki Roshi back in the 60s and early 70s. And he said, I learned to quiet my mind. And the woman asked him, so what do you suggest? And he said, look at light. Look at the light. And he said, usually we look at the way light reflects on things. Look at the light.

[50:08]

Everything is made of light. So that's another word for emptiness. What supports us all? What carries us all? Emptiness, ecstatic love, light. And yet we get captivated by spiritual material. This, I don't like this, I want to fix that. And that will always be going on. And that's important to work with all that. In a certain way, you want to be able to eat, you want to get to work, you want to take care of your kids, you want to get your teeth fixed. Take care of those things. And at the same time, if you're waiting until you do all that completely well, you never will. If you're waiting for the approval and recognition and love from your performance, it's not coming, it's not happening. But you can be... Even though... So, you know, and then here's another one, you know, and I'll leave you with this.

[51:13]

But, you know, I love Zen Master Yaku-san. He's the one who said, his teacher said, what are you doing? And he said, I'm practicing meditation. And his teacher said, what are you doing? And he said, I'm not doing anything. And the teacher said, if you're not doing anything, you're wasting your time. And Yaku-san said, no, if I was doing something, that would be a waste of time. And the teacher said, tell me again what it is you're not doing. And Yaku-san said, even a thousand sages couldn't say. But another time, you know, there was a Zen master came to visit and the other Zen master saying, you know, we all live in this light, in this ecstatic love. And it's amazing how, you know, this penetrates and permeates everything in every place. and supports us even when we're sad and scared and lonely. And Yaku-san said, that's pretty lofty, wouldn't you say?

[52:15]

And the other teacher said, what would you say? And Yaku-san said, awkward in a hundred ways, clumsy in a thousand, still, I go on. So please, carry on. we're all human beings join the club thank you for being here today many blessings thank you for listening to this podcast offered by the san francisco zen center our programs are made possible by the donations we receive please help us to continue to realize and actualize the practice of giving by offering your financial support For more information, visit sfzc.org and click Giving. May we fully enjoy the Dharma.

[53:16]

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