I'm participating right now in the annual Zen yoga workshop led by Judith Lassiter, co-led with me, and we're, can you hear me okay? We've been working with some teachings. I'm one of those people with very sensitive ears and I startle easily, so. How's the mic? Is it going to stay like this? Judith has brought up some teachings, kind of foundational teachings in yoga. One is ease and the other contentment. We were working with contentment,

[01:04]

which reminded me of a Buddhist teaching that actually is traditionally thought of as the last teachings of the Buddha, the teachings that he gave on his deathbed. And these are called the eight awakenings of great beings. Have you heard of those? Any of you heard of those, some of you? Eight awakenings of great beings also translated the eight truths of a great human being. So I think we're, great beings does not exclude us. These are the teachings that Shakyamuni Buddha offered as the last thing, you know, to help beings. So I thought we could reflect on these tonight and I wanted to include, there's many things

[02:11]

that have come up as I've been studying these about Tassajara life and everyday life, life in general, and I will just bring up examples that have occurred to me around each one of these great awakenings, these eight awakenings of great beings. So the first one is, the first awakening is to have few desires, to have few desires. And I want to continue to go back to this word awakening. This is not something that we necessarily understand right away in our lives. We actually cultivate more desires and more things and let's do this and travel and let's go and have and of course the society urges us, urges us always to have more, do more, buy

[03:14]

more, and etc. So this, to awaken to this, to awaken to having few desires includes working with greed. So I've been reading this very interesting book which is about evolution and biology and so forth and in the last chapter they were talking about primates having an opposable thumb and that that were the only animals who, you know, the opposable thumb helped for grabbing and grasping things, vines and trees and so forth, but we also pick up and take inanimate objects and sort of carry them along with us. And other animals don't do that. They carry things in their mouths, food or their children, but it's really, it doesn't work to

[04:16]

carry things over long distances. So I was thinking of this, the greed thumb, you know, without that, I mean, is that when greed arose? I don't know. But this fact that we can grasp actually and keep and hoard and store up and take from somebody else, you know, so I think biologically speaking it's very interesting to think about our thumbs and we do think about our thumbs in this mudra actually. That's another story. So those who have few desires, the Buddha says, are free from the activities of currying favor, you know, when we, currying favor and flattery, when we want something from somebody or we covet something, we sometimes actually go

[05:23]

against our own vows or our own sense of what's right and, you know, do something so that they'll give it to us, you know? And if you take this into the broadest way, this is the, there's great suffering for beings that's involved in this having desires. So those who have few desires have a serene mind. And also along with that is the lessening of worry and anxiety and fear. So all these come along with having few desires. Often when we have desires and we get things, then we're afraid they're gonna get taken, you know? But I just got a new bolster today and it's so clean and round and perfectly shaped. It still has the tags on it and I haven't even thought about bolsters, whose

[06:27]

I'm using or not, and all of a sudden the thought came up, I don't want to lose my bolster. I hope nobody takes my bolster. All of a sudden I'm worried about my bolster. This is a new worry. So this fear comes along with lots of desires and in our ordination ceremony it says, after the ordinee takes the precepts, they say, you are freed now from all worldly attachments and a really Buddhist child. So you get to sit in the lap of the awakened one, freed from attachments. So this is a very important point to reflect on and to look at our own desires and are they growing or are we simplifying? And what suffering is caused from cultivating more desires? The second awakening

[07:32]

is, there's a couple translations of this, but I like this one. To know, the second awakening is to know how much is enough. To know how much is enough. And I think another translation of this is to know satisfaction or to know contentment. So we have ideas of what's going to satisfy or what's going to make us content or what's enough, but actually to drop the ideas and actually feel what is enough. And one of the main areas this comes up, I think, is around our practice of eating and food. I think a lot of us have difficulty knowing when is enough, when is it enough? And we have a practice, a formal practice of eating in the Zendo with a special set of bowls

[08:36]

and cloths. It's an eating ceremony. And I have, over the years, for myself and others, seen how bringing ritual into eating, and this is also a document in other places, the communities, the cultures that have a lot of ritual around eating have a low incidence of eating disorders in these cultures. So bringing a lot of, bringing ritual into eating in a very conscious way helps us in this awakening of how much is enough. So I know those of us who have lived at Tassajara in the summer and also in the winter, practicing very hard, food becomes, you know, there's a lot of distractions that have been dropped away that are impossible here. There's no movies and no

[09:37]

internet and no radio and TV and, you know, just no hopping in the car and going to the mall and no, just a lot of stuff that's pretty prevalent in other situations. At Tassajara, it's pretty dropped away, but we do have meals, you know, we do eat meals and the meals can take on a kind of numinous quality, you know. We're having such and such for dinner, didn't you see, you know. Or I remember once hearing somebody come rushing out of the kitchen, there's pancakes at the back door. This is an exciting thing at Tassajara, you know, old cold pancakes in a bowl at the back door. They're very good. You slather them with peanut butter, roll them up. So the back door of the kitchen for the guests who, you may not know this, but the back, you can go in the back door of the

[10:40]

kitchen and there's snack food at the back door. And in Green Gulch in the city, there's a snack kitchen or a snack area. And the snack area is often the area where we do not know how much is enough, you know. Gee, I think I feel like a snack. You know, gee, when was lunch? Oh, yeah, just about a half hour ago. But, you know, it's time for a snack. So this is an area where to bring our attention and actually from the inside out feel what is enough and to bring it up, what is enough with ourselves. And so that's, you know, food. Bag lunch is a wonderful for the guests. You know, this may be your kind of back door area. I see people very calmly walking into the bag lunch area and the doors open and then they see the array and the choice and something happens. Do you know what I mean? Yes. A kind of frenzy happens. And I've watched the bag lunch makers running around like wild women or men filling and bringing and, oh, we ran out of this and dumping

[11:48]

in this. And then sometimes even with a huge array, someone will say, you know, do you have more such and such? Because it got ran out. So to know the awakening, to awaken to this, this is to awaken to how much is enough, to know how much is enough, not only around food, but around, I think this also goes, all these awakenings include each other. So the eight, each one of the eight, you know, includes the other seven. So also about what is enough things, what is enough sleep, what is so this says we already have some things, we have things in our life and to use them, have some refraining about how we use them. And this is an environmentally speaking water, gas,

[12:54]

electricity, you know, what is enough? How much is enough? And to know it and to practice with it. So this is, I think these are practices that go on endlessly for our lives. So the Buddha says, if you want to be free from suffering, you should contemplate how much is enough. So this is not just being a good citizen, you know, or from some for to look like you're leading a good upright life or something. This is about relieving suffering of self and others. And it says when you're contented or when you know how much is enough, you can sleep on the ground or get along with very little and be happy. And if you don't know about this, you can live in a palace, a mansion and be discontented. And I think we know about

[14:01]

this. We know probably we know people who have many, many things in their life, material goods, and yet are unsatisfied, not content, not happy and are suffering terribly. So I often think of when I go camping or backpacking and you get by with what you can carry on your back and your little meal, you know, is very just what you can carry. And the contentment, the satisfaction, the happiness that arises. And we think, gee, I could just live like this forever, you know. And then we come back into this world of abundance that many of us have. Relatively speaking, I think probably everyone in this room has lots of things in their life. So the third awakening is to enjoy serenity or tranquility.

[15:09]

And the Buddha talks about this as going away from the crowds and stay alone in the forest. And I think we can think of this not so literally as everybody. I mean, he was speaking to the monks who had gathered around him. But for each one of us, coming to the cushion each day is a kind of going away from the crowds and sitting alone. And, you know, as Kadagiri Roshi used to say, sit down and shut up. You know, just go away from the noise and the crowds or to come to the yoga mat every day or to come to Tassajara. This is a retreat for many, many people who come in the summer. This is really their personal retreat of the year, I think, for many people. So staying alone on the cushion or on the mat or walking. So this kind of formal

[16:15]

practice supports our entire life, supports the lives of everyone we come in contact with. And there is a joy there of tranquility is joy. It's not boredom. Peace and joy is this. These practices cultivate and are conditions for peace and joy. So away from the crowds and stay alone in a quiet place. And this, you know, even in the midst of a crowd, I think we can not stay alone, like get away from me, but we can find our quiet place in the midst of the marketplace, too. This is a practice, not necessarily literally, you know, staying away from people. Okay. So, so far we have a few desires, knowing how much is enough. And this one is enjoying

[17:22]

serenity or tranquility. The fourth one is the awakening to diligent effort. And it said that the Buddha said that diligent effort is to engage ceaselessly in wholesome practices. This is devoted effort. So when I say that they all include the other, you know, I think, and they build on each other, having few desires, supports diligent effort, supports tranquility, supports knowing how much is enough. You know, they all, we all have a few desires, weave together. Diligent effort is a kind of unwavering effort in our practice, in our life. And it is said, the Buddha said, if you make diligent effort, nothing is too difficult. And it's the images, a thread of water hitting a rock, you know, a teeny tiny drip over and over.

[18:27]

And as we know, that will wear away, wear away, make a hole, make a deep depression and a hole in the rock. And we can see this around Tassajara. You can see where the waters have gone over the rock for, you know, millennia. So to have that practice ourselves, this ceaseless, diligent effort, consistency, as Judith says, in our practice. And this is also in all the arts, in cooking, you know, if we cook and kind of turn off the stove midway, we're not, and when there is that slow, what is it, slow food movement, but you have to keep the fire on, you know, unless it's raw foods, right? But in cooking, in the arts, in sports, in any meditation practice, martial arts, whatever you name, whatever you want to do, business, any of the right livelihoods, any livelihood, this diligent effort and ceaseless, unwavering day after day after day. And it, I think,

[19:37]

is supported by our vow. And knowing, I think it's very encouraging to know, if you make diligent effort, there is nothing, nothing is too difficult. Quoth the Buddha, if you make diligent effort, and too often, all too often, I think, we slacken away, you know, we kind of turn away and sometimes resting is also part of our diligent effort. Relaxing and resting is part of the ceaseless effort. So I'm not saying, well, you'd never rest. I'm saying every activity is part of our ceaseless effort. And there's some accountability there for our showing up, showing up on the cushion, showing up at work, showing up for our family and friends and the world, you know. The world needs us to show up.

[20:42]

This is something that Judith brought up last summer that was really, really helpful for me about she and her husband, Ike, have made a kind of vow. They've made a vow to show up. I understood it as a vow. When they're invited to family events, they show up. And I took that, I've been doing that practice. If I'm invited, I show up. This is a kind of, and it does say, you can find where it says the Bodhisattva, there's only four reasons not to come to something that they're invited to. One is they're sick. The second is they have to teach Dharma somewhere else at a previous engagement. And the third is, and I think those are just two, sick and you've got a previous engagement. Other than that, you go. You sign that RSVP card and you show up with friendliness, you know, whether you, if you're invited. So as a practice, this is a kind of ceaseless effort to show up for our life, you know. And for our friends and our co-workers and our Zazen mates and our,

[21:48]

you know, our fellow practitioners, our presence to be there making our devoted effort is, matters. So, a few desires, knowing how much is enough, tranquility, diligent effort. And the fifth one is the awakening to not, the awakening not to neglect mindfulness, to keep right thought or mindfulness. And this is an interesting point. They say in this commentary, or this is the Buddha speaking, for seeking good teachers or good counsel, there is nothing like

[22:49]

not neglecting mindfulness. So they bring this together with, if you want to practice and study with someone and study with a teacher and receive good counsel, there is nothing like neglecting mindfulness. One of the most important things is not to neglect mindfulness. So I've been kind of turning that around and I think, you know, there's, mindfulness is the practice of bringing your full attention to that which is before you and being completely there for it. And often people have a lot of big ideas, you know, big plans about enlightenment and being a teacher and ordaining and I'm talking about, you know, Zen practice centers and lots of big ideas. And then, you know, you notice they've come to talk with you about their practice and their shoes are left at the door all in a big jumble, you know. This is true, this happens, you know. Or, you know, there's the koan about the person who had this big experience

[23:53]

and they came to tell their teacher, it was raining outside, and the teacher said, which side of your shoes, which side of your clogs did you leave your umbrella? And the guy, it was a guy, he couldn't say, he couldn't even remember, but he had big plans about, you know, big experiences. So, bringing ourselves back to our mindfulness, mindfulness of all our actions of body, speech, and mind, and this is the details of everyday life. This is paying attention in work to, I brought this up in the last talk I gave in the dining room, in the kitchen, in the cabins, being present enough to know how things are placed, and are they placed quietly, or are they disturbing? You know, you put something down and somebody jumps, or something got overlooked or forgotten,

[24:55]

where was your mind, you know, where was our mindfulness? This is bringing our attention over and over and over to that which is before us. And in the Zendo, you know, we have all these forms that help us with mindfulness, stepping over the threshold with a particular foot, bowing to it in a way, certain forms that are created, were created to help us with our mindfulness practice, and then from there, we bring it out into the world. And it shows up in our daily life, and it shows up in all parts of our daily life, grooming and hygiene, and how we treat one another, body language, all these things. Are we aware of this? Are we mindful? And are we asking for help around these things? Mindfulness also is thought of as protecting us from desire, which is back to the first one.

[25:56]

You know, all these desires arise based on sense organs, visibles and tasteables and touchables, and mind objects. So our mindfulness practice will help us, and they call it putting on the armor, meaning not an armor to defend us, but to protect us and help us. Also, mindfulness helps with our fears. When mindfulness is solid, you will not be harmed by your own desires, which you can't refrain from. And then there is nothing to be afraid of. So our mindfulness practice really, fears are when our mind leaps into the future about what's

[26:57]

going to happen or what's not going to happen, and the great power of imagination and fantasy. But fear in the present, there is, by definition, fear is this mind that leaps into the future. So our mindfulness helps us to stay in the present, to stay grounded, to stay focused and full, mind full, have our mind full of that which is before us, rather than going off and creating fears. And also another wonderful practice of mindfulness is our posture. And I've been having some difficulty with my back for the last several weeks and months maybe, and I see the connection of mindfulness of walking and sitting with this painfulness. So taking our posture carefully and mindfully is another area where we bring mindfulness from the Zen Do,

[27:59]

from our mat into everyday life. And this leads us to the sixth awakening, which is the awakening to practice meditation. And in this case, they're talking about stability in meditation, gathering the mind and stabilizing, calming the mind, calming a confused and disturbed mind. This, to awaken to this, this practice and the need for this in our life. So if you gather your mind, it will abide in stability. So I think coming out of mindfulness practice, our stability of meditation, and the two of course go together and are within

[29:01]

one within the other. And the Buddha says, then you will understand the Dharma form of birth and death arising and vanishing of all things in the world. This stability will allow us to see this forms arising and vanishing, which is the way the world is. Unstable, impermanent. We practiced today in the restorative poses, which was in the afternoon, a particular pose where we lead forward onto a bolster onto a padded area and touched our forehead to the bolster. And Judith was saying that this frontalis muscle, when you press it,

[30:01]

it initiates or supports or conditions or that the relaxation response to have this pressing on the forehead, which it made me think of our full prostrations, which we go down into a full bow and we press our forehead on the ground. And we actually go into a kind of child's pose, which is a very, I've always found it, well, lots of things, but the feeling of all is right with the world. I guess that you might say safety or comfort or all is well. And I talked about this in a lecture several months ago, this practice of going into our full bows, those of you who come to service and practice that way, as this giving yourself to this completely relaxing into

[31:08]

that as child's pose. And now I just was so happy to hear this about this forehead, touching the forehead is, you know, is relaxing just in and of itself. So to plunge into the bow and just put our head down. And we have this wonderful opportunity to practice this many times a day and either in service or you can practice it at home. And it's a calming, stabilizing practices and meditation, the meditation of the bow. And you don't have to say, oh, I better be devotional. I better do this. It has nothing to do with the idea of devotion. In fact, if you've got some idea that you're adding to it, you probably won't completely plunge into the bow and release into that posture and feel what it is because we're thinking up, gee, maybe I should go down a little bit because

[32:10]

I don't look quite devotional enough or am I doing it right or just throw yourself in and get that head down for it. So continuing in practicing various forms of meditation, when there is stability, your mind will not be scattered. So this is, this is the way we gather the mind. And in our longer meditation days and so forth, this is the gathering of the mind. And this flows into the next awakening, which is the awakening to wisdom. And in the commentary on the meditation part, it says, this is a way to build a house with a good roof or a firm embankment or a dike is another translation to hold the water of wisdom in. So you need

[33:14]

this kind of stability in our life before or wisdom or insight, just there's no place for it to reside or abide. There's no, there's too much confusion. So we build this, this stable house. So the seventh is to cultivate wisdom and the cultivating of wisdom comes in three forms, to listen, to contemplate, and to have realization. This is the Shrutamaya Prashna, to listen or hear, Prashna is wisdom, to contemplate or reflect, Cintamaya Prashna and Bhavanamaya Prashna or to meditate or to make it your own or to become it or to have realization of it.

[34:18]

Now, this circles back to the first one. If you have wisdom, you are free from greed. So the wisdom is the understanding this, there's these three ways that we work with wisdom, but part of is understanding that you, there is nothing to grasp, that life is ungraspable. So when there's wisdom, where would greed arise? Because we actually know we lack nothing. We just allow the arrival of all things. We don't have to, this doesn't mean that we never go out and buy a new pair of shoes, that's going too far. But the greed around it, we just take good care of our life. If we need new shoes, we get new shoes or a new car, whatever. But the greed, we need those things for our opposable thumb grasping, you know, drops off through wisdom, the wisdom of knowing the non-dual nature of self and other or the suchness of mind and objects, that there's nothing supposedly

[35:29]

out there to get and bring in. This is great wisdom. So we first hear this, we hear the teachings, then we turn it, reflect on it, ask about it, bring it up, study more, study ourself, and then it becomes us with our ceaseless effort and our diligent effort, you know, that's how they all, you know, come together. They can't be separated really. Wisdom is a sturdy, reliable vessel bringing you across the ocean of old age, sickness, and death. So the Buddha is speaking this on his deathbed, I find that very, you know, this is what he's, this is what he's offering. Old age, sickness, and death we all face. No one, we may miss out on old

[36:35]

age or maybe sickness, but nobody misses out on death, you know. So to have the stability, this sturdy vessel of wisdom to sail that ocean and help other beings who are in the same boat, literally, is wisdom. And there's more things, of course, to say about wisdom. The last of the eight is, the eighth awakening is not to be engaged in hollow discussions. Another translation is not to engage in idle discussion. So it's wonderful to, you've got greed and, you know, mindfulness and wisdom and all these things, and then they come down to the Buddha, you know, the last of the eight, do not engage in idle discussion or hollow discussion.

[37:42]

So often we also hear about frivolous talk and idle chatter is another way it comes up in the sutras. This is a kind of dissipating of our energy. It also, it disturbs the mind, actually, this kind of hollow discussion. Now, I bring this up with a kind of gingerly, or not gingerly, but delicately, because I think it's very easy to take this, oh, I'm not supposed to engage in hollow discussion, so I'm going to only sit at the silent table, or I'm never going to engage in small talk, or unless it's some formal doksan, or I don't talk. Well, that goes too far, and that's a kind of using the teaching to, what would I say, kind of gratify our habitual tendencies or averting. So the Buddha was known for

[38:47]

his speech, and it was known as delightful, pleasing to the ear, loving, you know, loving kindness came from him. Dogen, the great Zen master, talks about speech, kind speech, is one of the four important practices of a Bodhisattva. So we're not talking about no speech, we're talking about hollow speech, or frivolous, or idle, and there's many precepts around speech as well, you know, not slandering, not lying, not praising self at the expense of others, not, I think the precept of not killing, you can look at speech, the power of speech to cut people down, you know, sarcasm means to bite flesh, we're in sarcasm, we can use our speech to take what is not given, you know, you know, there are people who are very skillful at

[39:51]

currying favor and flattery, right, and getting what they want by using speech, so there's all sorts of misuse of speech, but one of the eightfold paths is right speech. So what, you know, the mindfulness, bringing our mindfulness into our speech, but this does not mean that we don't speak together, in fact the practices around speaking with loving kindness, with clarity, with delight, you know, is part of our Dharma work, part of our, how we encourage each other, how we express our love for each other, and our love for the world, so let us not go too far in this, but let us practice together speech, sometimes we hold to our ideas of what the teaching is, but you know, the teaching is very flexible, not flexible meaning waffling, but flexible in that it responds to the situations,

[41:04]

and there is a place for chit-chat, there is a place for small talk, in fact, in this book about the opposable thumbs, they were talking about that when speech came in to the homo sapien, and he uses the term gyna sapien for the women, when speech and why it was developed, and there's a whole theory he has, but he also goes into how the way we're constructed, we have a lot of stored up energy throughout the day, and the importance of the discharging of that energy through talking, and we know how it is to call up a friend and just tell them what's going on, or people you live with to actually, well, how was your day, well, how was your day, and I think our dinner table conversation at tassara or around the family table, we have to look with our mindfulness, is this hollow and idle or frivolous, or is this supporting our friends and family, supporting our co-workers, this is a good question to look at,

[42:12]

where is the place for small talk, small with a big capital S, and to practice pleasing speech, not pleasing in order to get approval for others, but pleasing in order to delight the world, not to get something for ourselves, but be out of our love, this is the kind of intimacy of speech, so those are the eight awakenings of great beings, let's see, we have, well, we've been having the practice in the yoga class of, as Judith says, out of respect for the teacher

[43:19]

you show up on time, and out of respect for the students you leave, you end the class on time, so I know everyone has, many of you all have to get up early, but I was wondering if there might be a question or two that someone would like to bring up, I think we have time for maybe a question or two, yes Joe, yeah, when I talk about desires and trying to, you know, keep away from, or have few desires, I'm always a little disturbed by that, because I think of desires as being different from just, you know, I want the new car, I want the biggest, desires I think of as, you know, the desires that come from the heart or from the spirit, which might mean, you know, love or, you know, greater spiritual depth and stuff like that, and so another way that I've heard it phrased before is that's not the desires that we have that are the problem, but it's the attachment

[44:25]

we have to our desire, so I wonder if you could talk a little about that, or about the difference between the desires for things like, you know, I want to get new, you know, blue jeans at the mall, or, you know, I'd like to have a great relationship with someone that I love. Yes, I think, you know, this particular passage was pointing to being pulled around by the endless, inexhaustible desires of the visibles, the tasteables, the touchables, I think at the same time, and maybe desire is a word that, it can be used in different ways, but to have a deep, you know, longing or way-seeking mind, or, you know, I agree, you know, if the word desire is used in that way, then awakening, the desire for all beings to be enlightened, you could say is the Bodhisattva vow, you know,

[45:25]

the deep longing for all beings to be happy and protected, you could say that's a deep desire, which would be a wholesome thing, and you're right, and if you're attached to that in an unwholesome way, like, usually the attachment is your understanding of what that means in a rigid way, and not being open to, not being open to hearing more about that, or where you might be stuck, you know, that's like, were we talking about this today, the 100-foot pole? Yeah, it's like the 100-foot pole, the top of the 100-foot, and holding on, so what if someone brings up, well, that sounds good, that Dharma thing you just said, but it looks like you might be a little attached over here, what do you think? And if you say, no, no, I have the right answer, you know, my desire is pure or whatever, that's like holding on tight, so this non-attachment is,

[46:32]

what do you see, what's going on, and being willing, so that's kind of a little aside, but yeah, I think you're right, I think there can be wholesome desire, that the desire to practice is what brings people to the cushion, or the mat, without that, they're never going to walk in the door, so I think it has wholesome qualities to it as well, to a certain point, you know. Do we have one more? Yes. One more to lose everything, and suffer greatly, and then you show the way of meditation, as a direct result of that meditation, you feel, bring this incredible abundance into their lives, and a direct result of that is helping human beings who are suffering, I know I'm being vague, but they found themselves wanting more

[47:34]

outer things, that they lost, so they can feel better, and as you do feel better, what would you say to that person? Let me see if I understood what you said, because there's a lot of parts to it, so somebody lost everything, and out of that deep suffering they were exposed to the teaching, and they decided to take up practice, or sitting, then while sitting, or through that practice, they felt everything returned to them, or they, they were, they, did you say got everything back? It was an abundance valve that turned on. Abundance valve? Like the abundance came in. So, so to say that in other words, through their sitting, they felt, they lacked nothing, or they felt fully filled with joy, and they felt joy and peace, and then something physical and tangible came in, that they believed was a direct result of that, meditating on abundance. Meditating on abundance. Well, so your question is, what do you

[48:40]

say to a person like that? What do you say to that person who is conflicted with now, having all the worldly stuff coming in? Yeah, yeah. Feeling suffering from that. Yeah. You know, there are, karmically speaking, when we, when we do wholesome activities, we have wholesome fruits that arise, that, that, they kind of go together. So, if we're doing some activity in order to get wholesome fruits, that kind of makes it a little bit, not so pure, maybe you could say. But, you know, for someone to be dealing with, how do I deal with all, with the abundance of my life, right? And the suffering around having things, that's one of the sufferings, is the suffering of pleasure. It's one of the named sufferings, there's this, because those things go away, or

[49:43]

you've got to deal with them, and the worry of, so what one might say to a person like that, you're that person's friend, right? Yes. So, even to just bring it up, you know, and you know, I don't know what I would say to that person, I think, but for a person to reflect on, where is the suffering arising? And, you know, there are stories of great practitioners who had lots of wealth and lots of stuff. That is not the problem, you know. Vimalakirti was a layman who had great estate and, you know, he was a match for all the Buddhist teachers of the, of the era of that time. The problem is not in the object out there, or, but it's very hard to, to understand that, because you get very confused by stuff. So, so is there attachment to it, worry, anxiety around

[50:49]

the stuff? And how might he use that stuff for the benefit of beings? Well, anyway, those are just some things that come to mind. Thank you. Okay, well, let's end there. Thank you very much for your attention. May I?

[51:17]

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