to be aware. In Sanskrit it was the root for the word Buddha. Buddha means the one who wakes up. So we use this word. This very mind is Buddha, the one who wakes up. Now when we think of mind, I think a lot of times we immediately think of everything above the, about right here in the ears. That's a kind of a problem and it's not a complete understanding of mind.

[01:06]

Mind is actually centered. We could maybe think more correctly, mind-heart. Mind-heart, heart-mind. This very mind-heart is the one who wakes up. That helped me as I was pumping gas. I was standing there and I took a deep breath and I actually... Well, as Zen students, you know, you get into these old habits of eventually you kind of self-correct your posture. You begin by learning how to sit straight and then people come and they

[02:11]

They kind of push you into shape. Your teacher may come by and kind of straighten you up. When I first started sitting, I was sitting about like this. I thought I was straight, right? I'm sitting like this. People come and push me up into... I remember going in and meeting Kadagiri Roshi in Doksan. And the first time I had Doksang with Kadagiri Roshi, other times people I had met in Doksang, we sat very close to each other. But this was in a big room in San Francisco Zen Center, and there was a lot of space. So I sat up as straight as I could, and he started laughing. And he imitated me. He said, you know, you're sitting like this. So we all need a little help.

[03:24]

This mind, this mind is the one who wakes up, is not separate from the body that goes like this. Now the mind that wakes up is not definable exactly, but my own experience is that I have competence in practice of listening. But the mind that wakes up is a mind that has an attitude of listening, an orientation of listening, paying close attention.

[04:35]

Now one of the reasons that I wanted to change the gender in the story, and if I tell any traditional koan stories, today I'll try to change the gender, is because I've been finding in my own life that a person who was very important for me was my grandmother. Important to me in the sense of conveying at least a glimpse of wisdom. And I felt that when I was a child, I didn't really understand the dynamics. But in reflecting upon the situation, I realized that she had a very narrow space in which to work.

[05:50]

because it was such a patriarchal society. My family was very kind of Germanic patriarchal. Grandfather was the head of the family. And I didn't learn any wisdom. I learned many things from grandfather and from my father. But not what I would call wisdom, the listening mind. I think it's characteristic of our culture, and by that I mean Western culture, we put emphasis on knowing and on doing to the extent that we lose the not knowing and the not doing. the being, our own being, which is imminent.

[07:00]

And we cut ourselves in two when we do that. So one story about my grandmother and how she taught. And I hope you don't mind, this is a personal story, but maybe you can find yourself in some place in the story. The scene was a little farmyard in Kansas. And the child, myself, was riding around the yard on a horse. round and round the yard. It was a pretty new horse. She was a spirited mare, retired from racing.

[08:14]

My grandmother came out and she was sitting there watching. She usually didn't say very much. And she watched me and I rode around and I was pretty content actually riding around and being observed by my grandmother, no problem. And then as I came around one time she raised her hand and I stopped the horse and she said, why are you just riding around and around in the yard? I said, well, Dad told me I couldn't go out. It was too dangerous. I was about maybe 12 years old, and the horse was pretty new. So it was understandable that I would be told to stay in the yard.

[09:18]

My grandmother nodded and said, OK. I rode around a few more times and she watched me and then she held up her hand and stopped me again. And she said, you know, I've been wondering if there's any water in the reservoir out in the pasture. I said, I'm pretty sure there's water in the reservoir. She said, but I don't know. Would you go out there and check? I said, you mean ride out there? She said, yeah, take the horse. It won't take long. And just check, see if there's water in the reservoir. And I thought, well, she knows that Dad said I shouldn't do that.

[10:24]

But she's dad's mother. If I get into trouble, I have a pretty good argument train. So I opened the gate and rode out into the big pasture. Didn't ride very fast, you know, I'm walking and trotting a little bit and go out to the reservoir and sure enough, there's water in the reservoir. And I turn the horse around and she takes off. It's all I can do to hang on to the mane. And I grab the reins and I'm going, whoa, whoa, whoa, things are out of control. We come to a creek across the pasture, and I don't know what's going to happen.

[11:27]

I'm riding bareback, and so all there is to do is to hang onto it, balance, and holding onto the mane. We come to the creek, and the horse leaps the creek. I almost fall off, but get my balance again, and the horse is now running just a full tilt across the pasture. I realize this is fun. I'm still here. So there's a way of keeping balance. There's a way of writing. where things are moving fast, but it's all in balance.

[12:30]

Now, it was still out of control. I should finish the ride. But I gave up trying to stop the horse, for a while anyway. We were streaming across the pasture, but there's a fence at the end. There is an end to this pasture. As we begin to approach the fence, I realize what's going to happen. I don't know. Maybe I better stop the horse. I start trying to say, whoa, not a chance. She has the bit in her teeth. And we run right to the fence. And I didn't know if she was going to jump the fence. But about five feet from the fence, she puts on her brakes. All four feet go... And I go right up over the neck, over the head and fall in a heap. So then I take up the reins and I get back up on the horse, find a stump I can get on and get back up.

[13:56]

her under control and by now she's kind of said her part, you know, she was a little exhausted. And so I go back to the yard and grandmother's still there. She probably saw most of this. She says, how'd it go? I said, there's water in the reservoir. And she said, and the ride? I said, okay. She said, well, now you can ride anywhere. That was wonderful news. And it was kind of one key moment in which I felt released from the authority and the patriarchal structure of the family that I was raised in.

[15:12]

So having a grandmother who was watching for opportunities to nudge people, children like myself, out of their ruts. Very important. And the mind that does that is a mind that is willing to take some risk. How would she have felt if I'd fallen off and broken my neck or something? but a mind that's pretty alert, listening and looking for some opening. Now in the story of Da Mei in Matsu,

[16:34]

Matsu earlier on, when she was a young student, she was sitting zazen and her teacher, Nanyue Nanyue, we'll call him Mother Nan. Mother Nan came and said, what are you doing sitting zazen? And Ma said, I want to become a Buddha. And Nanyue said, nothing. Nothing. But Nanyue picked up a piece of broken tile and started rubbing it.

[17:47]

Can you hear that? Something like that. That's what Ma heard. Ma said, what are you doing? And Nanyue said, I'm polishing this tile to make it into a jewel." Ma said, �How can you polish a tile and turn it into a jewel?' And Nanyue said, �How can you become a Buddha?' If you think that you can become a Buddha sitting zazen, you're denying Buddha. Buddha is not somewhere else.

[19:01]

Buddha is your own mind that wakes up. Very important. So when you're going about your daily activity, the mind that wakes up is what counts, and it's right there. You don't have to go someplace else. But how to remember? See, I was kind of busy between the first gas station and the point at which the latch didn't work on the nozzle on the gas hose.

[20:16]

Sometimes something stops us. And that's a clue or a cue for those of us who practice and are looking for wisdom. If something stops you, consider it an opportunity to really stop. And when something is out of control, like riding a horse, even there it's possible to stop at a full gallop. But you have to be willing to be there.

[21:26]

Now we say, we vow to save all beings. And saving all beings has many meanings, but one meaning is that you're willing to be there with whatever comes up. Now I see people going out the door, so that must mean something. What does it mean? Kitchen? You don't know. The mind that does not know is wonderful. Okay. So maybe I've talked long enough. Well that was most of the introduction I was thinking.

[22:37]

But I've come to lecture here occasionally and I've heard Tenshin, Roshi, Abbott sing a song. And so I thought, well, I should take my turn. A part of, you know, I mentioned in our culture some of what is not recognized, I think, is important. And part of what hasn't, of course, been recognized in our culture is black culture. And for me, it's very important to recognize learned the blues at one time. And the song that I want to sing right now and actually have you join me is, it's not really a blues, but it's kind of a folk bluesy, hootie, lead better, lead belly song called Relax Your Mind.

[23:57]

And let's see if I can hear it here. Relax your mind. Relax your mind. Make you live a great long time. Some time. You've got to relax your mind. So you can do that, right? Relax your mind. Relax your mind. Make you live a great long time. Sometimes you've got to relax your mind.

[25:04]

Again. Relax your mind. Relax your mind. Make you live a great long time. Sometimes you've got to relax your mind. And when the light turns green, put your foot on the gasoline. That's the time you've got to relax your mind. Join me. Relax your mind. Relax your mind.

[26:09]

Make you live a great long time. Now's the time you've got to relax your mind. And when the light turns red, put that brick down to the bed. That's the time you've got to relax your mind. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Maybe you can keep that going. Relax your mind. Relax your mind. Make you live, help you live a great long time. That's right. Sometime now's the time.

[27:12]

You've got to relax your mind. Relax your mind. Now you know it's important to realize that there's a difference between singing the song, Relax Your Mind, feels pretty good, and actually taking care of your mind. Sometimes taking care of your mind or singing a song relaxes your mind. Sometimes taking care of your mind is doing something very difficult.

[28:19]

Sometimes it's not at all clear. When it's not at all clear, then the practice of listening is a good practice. When things are going too fast and out of control and staying right with it, staying right with it is pretty good practice. So thank you for listening and take good care of your mind that wakes up. I've probably learned it when would I learn that probably about 65 or something something like that so I've known the song a long time and he does say when the light turns green put your foot on the gasoline that's the time to relax your mind

[29:36]

And when the light turns red, put the brake down to the bed. That's the time to relax your mind. And there's some other verses as well. It says to relax your mind. Relaxing your mind is something voluntary, something that you can do at will. If I can do it at will, I will relax it right now. It's something light and correct. I know that trying is not the way to go, because the act of trying is not relaxing. It's actually letting go of it. I know the theory. I just can't. That's a good statement. Anyone else have that experience? I'm getting better at listening to the voices, though. I need to talk back to them once in a while.

[30:39]

That helps, too. The voices? Whose voices? What voices? My own voices. No, you can't do that. Yeah. All right. Well, I want to do that. No, you can't do that. That type of thing where I can realize what I'm doing to myself rather than somebody else out there doing it to me. They'd say, oh, you really want to do that? Okay, well, if you really want to do that, then usually I don't want to do that. It's not that important as long as you hear me. Is this being recorded? Evidently. Hello? You know, the lights flash when I say something. What are they going to do with all these? Yes. I like that. I like that question. Yeah, just the notion of sometimes you are, or sometimes the mind is relaxed, sometimes it's not, and how much do we play in there?

[31:52]

How much control do we have, if we have any control at all? And if it's not controlled, what is it? And how much is willfulness and how much is aversion and how much is attachment? And we should let some people settle in here a little bit. I think of relaxation as being maybe the opposite of willfulness. Do you have a problem?

[32:58]

Yes. I think it's also possible to make an act of will and then just control it, I think. So this is a voice of experience. In between your experience of going from one dead patient to another, when you noticed that you were irritated, did the noticing of the irritation help you grow away?

[34:03]

Once you noticed it, did it help you deal with it? Did it help you decide to get to bed? Did it help you give up? Maybe I shouldn't have said that. This process of practice is not exactly some linear experience where you can say, okay, now I'm aware of being irritated. Now I'm watching the other. what we find is that we have the whole complex of internal formation of mind and awareness, feelings, memories and fantasies.

[35:09]

And the events of the day trigger of what we are caught by. We can say, well, just to me, I'm caught by this. The process of practicing it, I think it is helpful. But you almost have to say, you have to give up wanting it to be tough. If I pay attention to being irritated with the hope that this is going to stop, it's kind of like a little remedy for the irritation. That's really not the practice that we're advocating. It's not the practice that we're saying is worth doing. The practice we're saying is worth doing is to acknowledge the experience of irritation and simply let that experience be part of your attention, your awareness.

[36:26]

If you try to get rid of it immediately, if you even just think, oh, is it going away yet? Then you're beginning to create more division. The irritation arises from some kind of a division, some separation, maybe many separations. And this is human nature. There's no way you exist. There's no way that we can exist as humans without having some sense of separation. But in the midst of the separation, We can also find connection. And it's very important not to just be habituated on one side. So if I'm feeling irritation, it is important to me to recognize that.

[37:30]

See how that comes up? That's a kind of a teacher, actually a kind of a guide. What is fundamentally driving my annoyance? What's fundamentally my problem? And we can take that question. Any problem that comes up, take some time to study it. And in the process, I don't know that the problem goes away necessarily. But the texture of it really changes. And the mind becomes more, well, even to say you're aware of the irritation is expanding the consciousness in 15 years. It's a little different between being aware of the irritation and just being irritated.

[38:33]

blind you. So this practice of cultivating awareness, why we, why we bring attention to whatever it is that seems to be the issue at the moment. I say politely because I think your point is well taken. You can't just say, I want to be free of this problem and I'm going to solve it by studying it. Your mind is You need to initiate that, the thing I'm going to do. And there's a reflective aspect to the fact that .. Who wants to do it?

[39:43]

Who is ? And you sit with that. OK, what's it coming from? What is it coming from in you? It's very important, and each of us needs to because it's already who we are. We're not really adding anything to do that. We're facing what we don't know. Yeah. Yeah, I think I already caused trouble with that. Someone caught me on the way over here. She said, I'm a grandmother. It created a real problem for me. Because my sister-in-law really didn't need anything to any interference with the children, the grandchildren.

[41:03]

So, you know, I can't just advocate taking risks and don't, you know, do anything. I think the, for me, the central value in a way like there are no other factors in that story. But she was very observant. She was quiet. She actually stood very low. And she was very, very careful to watch what was going on. So you can see there, it's just cultivate. This practice is observation. Someone had their hand up. Yes. I was wondering what I was trying to put on the choir.

[42:15]

I want to see if you could show. I was thinking, oh, okay, I've got to put on my executive ear, and I was imagining, and I wasn't doing it, [...] Thank you. Dharma practice is a whole body practice, a whole running practice.

[43:49]

And most of us have some sense of ourselves that is limited in some way. You may find that if you're patient with yourself, you may find there are certain variants. It can be, in a way, a pattern of thought. It can be something that's an experience that's kind of crystallized into your psychophysical being in a way that forms a kind of knot, an attention. It could be a way in which something is worked out that is a convenient pattern of response or reaction to a certain situation. So this is also a whole life practice.

[45:00]

There's no point in which you're finished. So the field in which you work is immense. The reason I say art is because we tend to think of mind. We hear these stories, we tend to think of mind. It's been a very limited kind of, I hadn't deal with it in the last, you know, knowledge. It's kind of an acquisition of information. This practice really doesn't have much to do with that. The fact is, I would clearly say there's no problem with information. Just be what's what, clearly as it is. The recognition, though, is that we live in a world, in a universe, actually, that is created and is evolving in our consciousness moment after moment.

[46:09]

It comes up. We put it together in a certain way in our mind, in our emotional field, and we respond. And we go off in some direction based on old habits, kind of an idea of who we are, what we can do and what we can't do. And find ourselves kind of out on thin ice, not quite sure where we're coming from because we're following our own chain of reactions and diminishing ourselves. So whenever we have a word like mind, it's necessary to say, OK, what's the limitation in the way I'm thinking about mind? When we say self, who I am, who am I, what's the limitation in the way I'm thinking about myself? And address that. simply to ask, what is the limitation?

[47:14]

It's expanding. And we have a saying in this school that the practice with Dharma, the Buddha way, is to study the self. And to study the self is to go beyond the self. or to forget the self. To forget the self is to be awakened with all beings. And to be awakened with all beings is to leave no trace. So there's a whole, this is kind of a a series of phrases that you might locate yourself. Well, to study the way is to study the self.

[48:16]

We need to do a lot of that. And to study the self is actually to look at what is coming up, what is confusing, what is painful, what is divided in ourselves, what is limiting. And not with the idea of getting rid of it, solving it. but the idea actually of appreciating all these aspects. And when you look at the edges of yourself, you find other beings, other people. And these other beings and other people are also included in your study. So actually to take this up is to say, okay, I'm not going to leave anything out. And then the work of the moment is to take care of, okay, what's up now?

[49:22]

And sometimes you mentioned, okay, relaxing and kind of getting in a certain, you might find a comfort zone. And people do this in their practice. They find comfort. You work through some struggle very hard with some certain things and then break through and find an area of comfort. Like when I'm riding a horse, after almost falling off, there's a point at which, oh, it's fun, right? But that didn't last too long. Sometimes if you're feeling pretty comfortable, it's good if someone can help you by giving you a problem and also you can invite that I sometimes ask my daughter or my wife to give me some feedback what am I not doing this morning my wife told me that I think I know too much I'm going around the house thinking I know too much

[50:33]

Okay, well, that's a terrible criticism for someone whose practice is not knowing. Yeah. The sense of your brand that I just got, you said more about it, was just wonderful. Wonderful. I have one of my children, my oldest son, that's in New York City. To me, it looks like he's in a dark hole. And it's been really difficult. But a great teacher. And I noticed the last couple of days I'm in a place of annoyance. I wish this would change. I wish this would stop. I wish we'd just totally let go and just let go.

[51:40]

But we talked about your grandmother. I just had a sense for myself. I said, maybe you want to be a grandmother. I think the wonderful thing about a grandmother is the grandmother is more than you. That's a really good place to see, what to look at, to look at my kids, like, oh. You know, in the last 10 or whatever years, I've been trying to reach my, you know, let them go, and it's been better and better. It's just, it's just, it's just, it's just seeing with my heart, seeing with my heart, and you just leave it. It's not just for you to say, oh, of course. You know, it's just, I'm so grounded. Why? The kind of spaciousness you said once removed brings a little more space into the relationship.

[52:44]

It's very difficult as a parent not to be very tightly attached to the relationship, of course with good intentions. Sometimes I feel, I have two children. My son is 24 and my daughter is 17. Sometimes I felt I need to be like an uncle rather than a father. I think it's partly a problem in our culture, the way we're set up with nuclear families. It's one real kind of a limitation. If you look at certain families that have a whole supportive network, an extended family, or in which friends actually are members of the family, some of the weight of the responsibility of being a parent

[53:50]

is taken up by other members, uncles, aunts, other friends. And because of the way our industrial society is kind of played out, many families are left very, very isolated. And it's really too big of a load on a parent. So as a parent, sometimes I found when I'm feeling isolated as a parent, I need to say, I'm going to be an uncle to my children when I'm a parent. Just that little twist sometimes makes a big difference in how I respond to them in their situations. What they do doesn't implicate me. in the same way. If they have a problem, it doesn't mean that I screwed up in the same way.

[54:57]

That's one step. That's helpful. Also, just to remember that there are many causes, many factors that contribute to this moment this present situation and who you think you are and who someone else thinks they are it's not linear causation and so if you're trying to help someone in a way I'm trying to help my grandmother by telling this story my grandmother is long dead in a way I'm trying to help my daughter by telling this story that perhaps we can create. And not by creating creation, I don't mean by something at arm's length.

[56:02]

I think we can create by simply appreciating the value of the kind of awareness and attention I'm talking about. And doing that can create a field in which children teenagers can be wise grandmothers in their time. So I think telling a story like this can work in various ways and we need to do this to help create a nourishing environment. Can I ask a basic question about Buddhism? Zen Buddhism? Or maybe you're not quite done. I'm not quite done. There's one other thing. That's very good. Go ahead and ask it. And then I'll get to it.

[57:03]

Okay. Sometimes I get the impression that Zen Buddhism kind of is like an extension of social responsibility or recognition that there are problems. And so when I hear precepts about Buddhism, not if I don't know too much about it, I get the impression it's a little bit like the conscience coming out of a sense of conscience, which reminds me a little bit of Christianity, which I have a little problem with in myself. And then sometimes, like a story you told about Dogen, Now, he comes at it, he started to recently start with himself as an exploration of himself. It starts at a different point. So I guess I'm asking, It's easier for me to start from there than the other.

[58:08]

And yet, as I was asking the question to myself, it seemed like my understanding of the basic Buddha story was that he recognized that there was pain and suffering in the world. And then he came up with a way of communicating a way out of the problem. And when it starts there, it's like it starts from a point that I feel really uncomfortable. I think I feel guilt or something that makes it really hard. Where do you start? And what's the fundamental... What's the fundamental beginning point of practice? What does it arise out of? Does it arise out of a sense of guilt or a sense of... What does it arise out of?

[59:15]

Does it arise out of a problem or does it arise out of something else? Yeah. I could say in Buddhism there's no guilt. Yeah. Easy to say. We say the natural order of mind, your true nature is okay, is beautiful. So part of Buddhism, of course, arises as a response to suffering and it arises as a very personal kind of work. There wouldn't be any problem with suffering if you didn't feel it somewhere, right?

[60:22]

Buddha wouldn't have come up with any effort to work with suffering if he hadn't felt it impact him personally. I'm talking him, historical Shakyamuni Buddha, 2500 years ago. When something is not recognized, there's a little break in consciousness. When something is right there and it's not being recognized, there's a little break. It's a little painful. With our relations with each other, if there's some way in which we actually can recognize each other completely

[61:28]

That's healing. We say it's healing because usually we don't. Usually we don't really recognize ourselves completely and we don't recognize each other completely. Now there's a kind of a dynamic, I think, that you need to be willing to recognize yourself completely to be willing to recognize someone else completely. Ultimately, see, in Buddhism there's no self and no other. So when you realize that you're willing to recognize yourself completely, you're also willing to recognize someone else completely. With parents and children, often there's some division. With my children, I've found sometimes it's helpful

[62:37]

if I can do it just for an instant, if I can say, I recognize you completely, I mean, I don't say that, that would generate a response like, duh, Dad. But when something comes up, And I think it's part of being a parent or maybe it's a part of being a person to receive what comes up. You know, often you're trying to do something, right? You're trying to make dinner. And someone comes in the door and they have something that they want to talk about. Hey, you're trying to make dinner. You're trying to help this person by making dinner, but here they are saying, hey, I cut my finger.

[63:49]

Or somebody called me a name. You're saying, just wait a minute. I'm cooking dinner. We think we're already fully engaged, but actually only a part of us is engaged. Usually we're We're telling ourselves we're fully engaged, but we're actually kind of lazy. And we think, oh, I can't do this. I can't hear this. I can't even. It's too much. Sometimes it's too much. But I found as much as I am able to make it a practice, if I can just turn and say, I'm going to give full attention for one second and just say, OK. What is it? That makes a huge difference. Sometimes that's all that's needed. Sometimes the little voice that's going, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[64:51]

Sometimes they're completely taken care of simply by being completely recognized for one second. But you can't This comes back to, you can't say, oh, I'm going to take care of the problem by giving them one second. You can't do that. You have to actually say, I'm going to give them my infinite attention. One second is a way of kind of getting into it. But if you do, even if you even hold back, say, well, I'm only going to give, because I'm really doing it. If you do that, then they feel cheated. This is the way we all have felt cheated by someone not giving us their full attention. So in this practice, when you sit, first thing you do, actually, you give yourself full attention. Give yourself full attention. As you extend this practice out the door, I mean, you can do that when you're in the zendo, and it's really a valuable practice to take

[66:03]

some time, make some time each day to stop and have nothing to do but bring attention to what comes up. People tell me they don't have time to do this. If you think, well, I have to have 40 minutes to sit a period of zazen and I don't have 40 minutes, try four minutes if you can do it if you can find a time and a place each day to do just four minutes of full attention to just what comes up you don't have to solve any problems you don't have to do anything but really open up your mind to what comes up settle take care of your your body and let your breath

[67:04]

lead you. Because the breath is always in the present moment right now. Very important to touch base with the breath. Do that and then you find as you walk out the door and you can give full attention to someone else or the work that you're doing It seems like such a small thing, and it makes a complete difference in how your life goes. Yes? If I'm very near the situation, hopefully the gas and the latch wasn't there.

[68:07]

I feel pretty strongly that somewhere in the back of my mind, as I took that deep breath and said to myself, I've got to get back to my practice, I would have had the thought, so that this irritation will go away. And even if I can kind of work it out to say, practice is just something I want to do all the time, regardless of whether I'm irritated or not, that still maybe is just somehow a surrogate for it. Because I know when I'm not practicing, I'm going to be irritated if I don't. And so I just, I wonder, when you took that deep breath, you returned, was that not in the back of your head somewhere? Or can you just kind of keep practicing long enough that it just really isn't there? Oh, that's a trick question, isn't it? Yeah.

[69:14]

It has nothing to do with practicing long enough. It's a kind of giving up in a sense. Just accepting. And it's so hard to do. And that you may find that something in your life is enough of a challenge or enough of a fixed thing that you're pushing against that you have to just accept the way it is. In a sense, giving up is not so good. Maybe I should have done... I didn't report back to the service station manager that this thing was broken.

[70:29]

That would have been maybe more connected as I think about it. What I did in this case was I thought, Oh, this is interesting. This could be lecture material. I better remember this, right? I'll remember this. Usually I don't even remember those things. It's hard sometimes for me to come up with examples because I do let go of things. Anyway, someone else had their hand up. I also think maybe you were irritated because you were late some of these days.

[71:35]

Maybe when that happens, we need to speak off. It's one little journey. It's very important in the world, but maybe it's not. So I try to go to this little irritation of the whole economy. It's good to be seen as it is, but not looking and feeling attached. But being there, it's good. Yeah, it's like the phrase of Suzuki Roshi's, things are perfect just as they are, and there's room for improvement. My experience is to work effectively with anything, you first have to accept the situation.

[72:38]

You have to acknowledge just the facts. The facts may be even largely unknown. You have to accept that and then respond. Your response may be a mistake because time moves. And the next breath happens, and it is time for dinner, and you do have to actually act with a somewhat ragged attention sometimes. basic recognition is that this actually all is a field of enlightenment.

[73:47]

All this is working perfectly. Within that, there's little waves, little tips of waves that come up with flags of different colors, or people are saying, I hate your guts. And our practice is to recognize that that's all a part of our life. That's our tendency. And the question is, do we exaggerate it? In other words, if you're feeling some irritation, do you tend to build something on that irritation, exaggerate it? We have a precept, do not harbor ill will. If you feel some irritation, Okay, recognize it. And as long as it's there, it's there. Accept it. Acknowledge it. But don't build a philosophy on irritation. Don't base your action, your social action, don't base your family rituals, don't base your politics on irritation.

[75:05]

I mean, it's terrible, we know. If you look at Bosnia, the three factions there all have a religious argument. There's a Muslim faction, there's an Eastern Orthodox faction, and there's a Roman Catholic faction. It's terrible to base and justify some kind of killing. Even an attitude for a moment based on some irritation, some actual limit in yourself, some cutting off of someone else. These great wars grow out of a kind of a diminished view that festers over time, never is acknowledged, never is seen clearly.

[76:12]

That's an extreme example, but it's actually not so extreme. It's going on right now, and there's many other examples we could name. Yes, you're first, I think, yeah. I sometimes feel a great wave of petulance. And as I happen to really have a strong dislike for that, I do try and examine where it's coming from. But also I realized that because it offends my self-image, there's a certain arrogance in my dislike of finding that picture. So maybe I can't say where it's coming from. Perhaps it's just an aspirin of the situation. Oh, I'm trying to think of a way

[77:14]

or self-importance. So if one can see the ridiculous situation in which you put yourself to your nature, or someone got ahead of you in the state of that, it seems to resolve the situation. So do you know what that's like? Sure does. Thank you. And as you were saying petulant, you did a wonderful job. It was beautiful the way you said petulant. I can't do it. But I had a sense that you really have an experience of what you're speaking. And there's a very physical, it's kind of a posture and an internal sensation. It's very good to get to know what your experience is. whether it's petulance or some kind of anger, what does it actually feel like?

[78:17]

What's the texture? Really get to know it. And where does it begin in your body? Where do you first notice it? Maybe a thought and then you feel a little twinge right over here. It may be very subtle, but we We do these things to ourselves, you know, we have certain patterns and we build it kind of into our body with a certain feeling. And we may associate then this feeling with a particular experience or even another person. Every time I see that person I feel... It's very important to see how we do that because this all is preventing us from seeing that person. Really, really seeing that person. Because we have this certain little bias, certain little preoccupation. Someone had their hand up.

[79:20]

Well, I wonder sometimes whether the word acceptance is truly communicated as much as recognized and acknowledged seems to be closer to it. So often, passivity is associated with acceptance. And I was wondering what you thought about the meetings there. Certainly, one does need to live with certain things for a time. And that sense is also acceptance as well as recognizing. Does it convey passivity? Can it? I mean, reality? Is it the use of that word? You've hacked it? It sounds like it does for you. And that's reality. Yeah. So, yeah. Of course, the words are somewhat clumsy. I find that too, that acceptance tends to have a kind of a

[80:28]

very flat, or sometimes a resigned quality. It's not at all. The practice is to sit up straight, stand up. I think you're I beg your pardon. It's to do with the tape. There was a concern whether this was your lecture on the other side. And evidently, from what we understand, it wasn't, but perhaps it is. I don't know. Yeah. The X-Factor. Many unknowns. Did you hear it again anyway?

[81:33]

No, I... I was... Anyway, thank you. You haven't spoken yet. Yes, you're... Yes, please. I just wanted to thank you for... I was going to ask about that. Yeah, how did that... Was anyone offended? Okay. Okay. I was getting ready to be offended because I thought you were going to say, oh, because today is Woman's Day or something. And I was getting ready to get mad, you know, one day and you're, you know, big deal. I was getting irritated and I was getting ready to get mad. Yeah, that's an interesting point.

[82:51]

I think sometimes I've seen people who I felt kind of were ready to get irritated, you know. Give me any reason at all. Yeah. Maybe many of us would walk around that way sometimes. Yeah. I had a teacher, Harry Roberts, Yurok, Indian. He was trained as a shaman, the Yuroks. For a while he was a consultant here at Green Gulch before he died. One day he was sitting here in this yellow Ford pickup truck. Right over here on the driveway, I came walking around the corner and down the road, and he was watching me. He waved me over and he said, Why are you walking around like that? I said, like what? He said, like you don't like Mother Earth. And immediately I realized, you know, I'm just, I've got all this stuff going on and I'm not really paying attention to how I'm walking on the earth.

[83:59]

And his teaching was, what do you call it, walking in beauty. I just want you to see how beautiful that is. And that's still possible. I almost didn't make it to lecture today. I was driving up over the hill and came around the turn and it was just spectacular. The sun lit up the green hillside, freshly washed flowers and grasses. How splendid. Splendid. I thought, I just have to pull over to the side here. And I remembered, oh, I have to give the lecture. Yes, you in the back. That's a perfect segue into asking about your interpretation, this interpretation of the VG, of God, of what's beyond God. I have this eclectic blend of yogi and hinduism and buddhism.

[85:11]

I appreciate the hindu way of looking at the ego and the heart, the depreciation and the heart of God. If you live out of that, you should be living out of the ego. And you spoke about that wonderful scene of what you saw through that place. And I immediately clicked in something that had clearly gotten me. It was just not the thing that clicked me. And I don't read of the gene in any Buddhist literature. And I really, and I'm trying to get a grasp for how you feel and how you, you know, what's beyond yourself, what's beyond the mind of ego. You know, you practice. If you're not practicing ego, what are you practicing? You're not practicing the mind. Or do you drop down into something?

[86:12]

Do you drop down into grace? Or do you drop down into your prayer? Do you experience like God? Mm-hmm. Sure. I don't think I've ever heard anybody here ever say the big G. Big G. How do I say it? Do I say big G word? It's an interesting kind of use of language historically, I think. you know, the Buddha, Shakyamuni Buddha, would not speculate. So if people would ask him about God, he would say, that's not really what I'm here to teach.

[87:14]

It's not particularly useful. What you need to do is practice Liberation from the self. Liberation from the self is actually recognizing that the self, as you think of yourself, is not real. And that... So there are, of course, many connections with, say, certain... I mean, there's a whole Hindu pantheon of gods, and some of those gods... enter Buddhist stories, but not as the big G. They enter the stories as gods. And I think there's an interesting time now as this Buddhist culture meets Western monotheistic culture in which there's a big G. I mean, it says right on our money, right?

[88:23]

And God we trust. So that's very important if it's right on our money. So I wonder, what is that that we trust? And the whole lineage of Zen Buddhism has always been able to say anything you put up as a concept So we say Buddha, sometimes we hold up Buddha as a concept. And actually I didn't get to the next, the corollary story today was not mind, not Buddha, which is also saying that the mind and the Buddha, as you conceive of it, is inadequate to reality. The reality is beyond your conception, okay? So Buddhism has said, don't get caught in the concept, the big G concept, the Buddha concept, the self concept.

[89:39]

But there's a very interesting point, which I think goes very deep, is related to how we understand causation. I don't really have time to get into it, but the fact that we tend to think of causation originating from a point in the West. The Big G created the world. God created the heavens and the earth. The understanding of the Buddha Dharma is that there's no single source that can be attributed Causation is a co-condition. There are multiple causes that are interconnected. So we never go back to saying, okay, pick one, or name one. Sometimes we say, okay, we'll name a cause, but it's tentative.

[90:44]

Name a source. Okay, there's a source, but it's tentative. So we also say, Even when something really wonderful happens, like in the Diamond Sutra, the Buddha brings countless beings to enlightenment. At the same time it's said no beings at all are brought to enlightenment. Why? Why are no beings brought to enlightenment? Because to conceive of a being To conceive of these beings is really to make a mistake. These beings have to be understood as no beings. If they're understood as no beings, then we can say the Buddha brings beings to enlightenment. This is recognizing that the causes of this whole experience that we know, whatever we can bring into our consciousness, these causes are multiple.

[91:50]

So it's called Pratyekasamuppada in Sanskrit. Pratyekasamuppada means conditioned co-arising of phenomena. So does the phenomena arise in infinite directions in all four dimensions? And of course we can theorize other dimensions as cosmologists are doing, but actually really, we can only really, I think, clearly see four dimensions. This all comes together in one point, which is our moment of consciousness. Okay? This moment of consciousness and you see, oh, okay, you can see past, present and future from the point of view of the present. Past, present and future actually only exist in the present. Now some people would say, okay, that's Gnostic gospel.

[93:00]

So I think there's an ongoing dialogue with that in some circles that will be interesting. I heard in the speech the Dalai Lama, I didn't hear him talk, but I saw in the paper somebody reported saying the Dalai Lama said that the West is solidly Christian and is going to stay that way, something like that. I don't know if he said just Christian or he said Christian, Jewish, Muslim. These are the three big religions of monotheism. And I wonder about that. So here I am. I'm a convert to Buddhism. I usually don't think of myself that way, but when I say that kind of statement, I think, okay, I'm going to So having recognized some of the limitations of monotheistic culture in my own experience, I'm finding nourishment in not mind, not Buddha.

[94:15]

And this practice is very real practice. It's a long, short answer. Is that, you have any follow-up to that? It seems like it could be an ongoing conversation. Okay. Yes. I thought that Harry Roberts would make an American show. Yeah. Americans see the mind as being located in the heart instead of in the brain. And it's really interesting to think that position, like you're looking from your heart. It really changes what you see. That's... Very important.

[95:18]

How long do we go here? You're gone. What? You're gone. I'm gone. All right. I'm gone.

[95:28]

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